We live on 13 acres with about 12 not in creek or street, and about an acre is yard that is maintained with regular lawn mowers. About 0.8 acres is along the edge in the rough and around the two 1/4 acre ponds and small forage pond and their banks that I have been maintaining with a D-R walk behind brush mower.

The rest (about 9 acres) is a hay field that is maintained and harvested by a neighbor who lives a couple of miles away.

I am trying to justify a small tractor for the place but keep coming back to "I can hire it done as needed and not have the expense and maintenance." Hiring means waiting a few days or weeks. I have been doing projects using wheelbarrow, shovel, and pickup and trailer, but it takes a long time and exhausting.

What do you guys have to maintain your places on a limited budget?
Thanks in advance.

I have a 1989 JD-1070 FWD that I bought new. It may be more than you need. A tractor with loader is a lot of help. Part of the decision is whether you like the work. If yes, then consider it a hobby, if not, hire it done. As you get older, a wheelbarrow gets harder. I think that gravity is getting stronger:)

John, Here is a discussion not to long ago about some tractors, that is if you decide if it's what you want.


http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=411846&page=1

John,

Your and my needs sound pretty much the same. I bought a used JD 585X 4WD with FEL. It has a 3 point hitch, PTO and belly mower. Absolutely one of the best investments I've ever made. I retired my wheelbarrow. This little tractor does everything we need and lots of attachments are available.

I've been lusting after an LS brand XR4145 with fel for some time now. Even dropped by the dealer yesterday with my wife, just to get the feel of things so to speak. She's on board, so I'm thinking it's a done deal if I can just convince myself to turn loose of the cash.

Now that would be sweet to have! I looked at tractors along that line but couldn't justify the cost for my little 6 acres.

I've got 50 acres and have worked it with a 65+ year old tractor for several years. It's done all I've ever asked of it and the view from up there is the best. I knew what I wanted when I started looking about 10 years ago and found one a few miles from home.

The best part was it was just over a grand so I didn't have to mortgage my house.

That's a NICE small tractor! What extras are you thinking of? Loader?

This JD 790 went for $8100 at the auction I was at the other day. It had 797 hours on it. I would think something of this nature would probably handle most of your needs.

The 90 series is the newer version of the 70 series that I mentioned above. A friend bought a 1090 a few years back and loves it. These new one's have the exhaust run underneath which can be an advantage, or not, depending on what you do with it.

John F, I guess it really depends on what you can spend on a tractor and what type of mechanical abilities you have.

My experience with an old (1949) Ford 8N has been sour and sweet. It started on 12 acres and is now cleaning up and maintaining 40. I have had it for 14 years. The first year was a bit hard as the oil pressure dropped it's first summer and I had to sink rebuild money into it, BUT since then it has been a wonderful piece. Short story is... I ended up with a 4 to 5 thousand dollar investment (Used Brush Hog and Blade included) and it has been wonderful since. Old rule of thumb with antique tractors is that you will spend an hour working on the tractor for every 10 to 20 hours using the tractor to do work. Sometimes it's just 30 minutes making adjustments, other times it's a weekend repairing major worn out stuff.

Some folks get lucky and by an old rusty tractor at a low price that gives them many hours of moderately trouble free use, but it's a roll of the dice.

The flip side is one could add a bit of money to that and get a new china made outfit with some modern technologies and get many years of low to no tinkering use so long as you don't over exert it and break a big part.

I would advise getting as much horsepower as you can, while still being able to match the implements to the tractor. You need to be able to cut/grade the tractors width on one pass.

That is why I opted for the highest HP in the cat-1 series. Small footprint but good power.

Noel is quite correct. The old tractors aren't for everyone. They do require a bit of your time and money. I've been blessed with mine. I already had my implements, so it was a natural fit. I did put a few dollars into a couple of new front end tires and I rebuilt the starter, new battery, fluids, etc.

I'm also the type of fellow that would take a 32 Ford over a new Vette. You gotta have love for them or you'll be disappointed sure nuff.

If you don't need a loader then the 9N/8N is a suitable mowing and bush hog tractor with the overrunning clutch installed. Just find one that doesn't smoke, can smoothly lift implements and has working brakes. You can even get one of those dirt scoops for it pretty cheap... Don't buy new. They are no front loader but beats the heck out of a shovel. With old tractors just make sure it's a 3pt hitch too. I personally like old Massey Ferguson because of the semi-modern features but still relatively easy to work on.

The around 50 yr old 135 went for $2200 at that same auction.



8N Went for $950

PS the other little ford sitting to the left wemt for $900

+1

There have been a couple of times I wished my X585 had another HP or 3 and also that it was a little heavier for traction.

The loader is the key. My 58 Ford and 40 Allis do fine for most chores, as a matter of fact I will keep the Allis....the Ford will likely move along to make room for the LS. Not many older machines are that loader friendly.

At the auction I was at there was probably 15+ tractors with loaders that went from as low as 4k to as high as 12k ranging from 30 to 85 hp. The 12K was a JD6400 with a 620 loader.

I've turned (turning) enough wrenches, I'm ready to hop on the seat and get the job done, without working on any more stuff. I find myself buying new these days.

I personally will not be buying a Tier 4 emissions piece of equipment for my own private use. The head aches I have experienced from the failure issues caused by using this equipment commercially is why I feel this way.

Also congrats on being able to turn your own wrench.

It's nice to be able to fix it myself, but it's also nice to pick up the phone and say "come get this". Yeah we talked about tier 4 and regen cycles. I like what I read concerning LS.

I do not have experience with LS and will not speak on them.

I do however make my living being responsible for maintenance. About 750 tier 4+ diesel engines fall under my control.

For my reasoning lets take for instance the Cummins engine just got thru rebuilding that oil soaked the emissions system. The Engine rebuild Kit cost $4,085.91. The DOC that was plugged and not reusable after being soaked with oil cost $3,902.10. The DPF that was in the same condition cost $2471.63.

With that being said as long as you have a good warranty and everything that fails is covered by warranty you should be good. It is when you get into that no warranty zone that things can get ruff.

In 2014 I purchased a house with 12 wooded acres. At the same time I purchased a New Holland WM35 tractor. (These are built by LS and get a New Holland label stuck to them.) Over the past two years I've been able to find some used implements and purchased some new ones. I can say that there would be no way that I could manage the property without the tractor. I did purchase a new one because of the warranty and the mechanics on it are a little out of my league. Since the fall of 2014 I have only racked up about 200 hrs on it but you can get a lot done in 200 hrs.

That's the key, gklop. How many hours will a consumer put on a piece of equipment vs. a commercial entity?

I'm a fan of overbuilding, but I also recognize that sometimes, good enough really is...good enough.

After seeing what one gets for the price, I am beginning to think I don't actually "need" a tractor. Maybe a ATV for hauling stuff to the pond and pulling my small trailer would be enough.

If you're thinking atv, I would go with an rtv or utv instead...something with a dump bed rather than a machine to race around on. That may be all you need if you're not looking to mow, cut, till, or lift.

No, not looking to race around at all. I don't care if the top speed is 15 MPH. Looking at some of my pond banks today, I think the D-R walk behind is safer. At least the D-R can't roll over on top of me. I need to mow the banks and the surrounding semi rough area about every three weeks in the growing season (. Hopefully, I will be able to handle it for a few more years. If I could get rid of several 3 inch high stumps, I could eventually cut it with a self propelled high wheel finish mower. The D-R mows at 4 inches and glides over them, but it's a rough cut. Total rough/semi rough area is just under an acre.

John,

Not my business but, as a friend, are you sure an ATV will really ease the burden of shoveling and hauling? I'm soon 61 and having that front end loader (FEL) on my little tractor is absolutely awesome when it comes to lifting. I moved 10 yds of stone last summer and never lifted a shovel or wheel barrow! I also put mulch around 200 trees, again, no shovel or wheel barrow. A tractor with a belly mower/finish mower would also allow you to eliminate the maintenance on your lawnmowers. My wife uses our little tractor like a golf cart as well whenever she wants to just run down to the pond.

Again, this is definitely none of my business.

Just my 1 cent.

Good Luck!

Bill, No offense taken at all on my part. Your opinion is welcome.
I am three years older than you. Last week I moved a 12 ton load of creek rock with wheelbarrow, shovel, and rake. The decent small tractors cost as much as a good car. My brother in law has one of the small Kubotas with loader and belly mower, and he has maintained it well over the years. Seldom does he do a job with it when nothing breaks. He says it has cost him on average over $500 a year for parts, some years $3,000. I have helped fix it a number of times. It seems really fragile, like if something bad can happen it will. I spent the last few days looking, and have found nothing I truly want.

The ATV would be more for my wife. She has bad ankles and walking over the mole infested ground down to the ponds (1,000 feet of path) sometimes greatly pains her and she likes to go to the ponds. I could even get a small one as she's only 110 lbs. Maybe she'd like to ride a small tractor there and back.

I'm not totally giving up....sometimes good deals come along unexpectedly.

That Kubota must be a lemon. I can count on my fingers the number of times I have had to fix my small JD over the last 27 years, and I have used it hard. That said, I understand how the tractor works and don't do things in a way that breaks things. I also do not lend it out except when it comes with an operator (me). I don't know your brother, but do you think he might be hard on equipment? Kubota's are known for reliability, and my friends that have compact versions have been very pleased.

My only regret with my small Kubota is that I should have bought one with a cab with air and heat. My dealer says I bought one smaller than I need,( I think he is a saleman and wants me to buy another larger one). They come and get it for yearly service and he says I work that little one to hard lol I have had to replace one hydraulic connection that was leaking and that is it as far as repairs. I would suggest if u r shopping for a tractor, always buy the next size up, but I would stay away from the new California emission control system if possible. a friend has one and it seems to have some problems with it.

Tony, I have to admit I did a small fist pump when I read this. It was almost an emotional decision for me to start buying new, but I'm there now too. I knew I could and can fix most things here, but at what point are you just spinning wrenches? It's nice to just pull a rope, or turn a key to start my day.

Adequate HP, and a FEL would be a have to for me if purchasing a new or used tractor. Awful lot you can do around property with hay forks and a bucket.

A JD 3032 with loader would be my vote for something that should last probably as long as he will be able to drive it without a lot of repair costs. I think the new ones now have a power train 5 year warrantee.

But that is about 15 grand if you find a dealer that has had one on the lot a while. Probably not within his budget.

My FIL bought a new JD 970 with loader and used some of his retirement funds to do so. This has been 10 or 15 years ago and he has enjoyed it immensely. He also thought he could not afford it, but after looking at 20 year old used stuff pretty beat up for almost as much money, he bit the bullet. He has had some repairs, some of which we have taken care of, but a lot of that was his lack of mechanical apptitude, a grandson driving it, and extremely poor eyesight. Had the tractor had an easier life I think the repairs would have been minimal.

If you can at all swing it John, get a 3032JD. That is almost identical to the 3038 you saw in my shed. They are price cometetive with most brands and parts or service if needed is available. You will not regret it every time you climb onto it.

I have a JD, about 35 HP(don't remember model) with a FEL and 4WD. I seldom use it to plant anything. However, it is my ladder for trimming trees, hauling rocks/junk/firewood/deer and pig carcasses.

When I decided to upgrade from my Ford 8N, a local Rancher told me that a tractor without a FEL was half a tractor and that a FEL without 4wd was useless. I agree with that. I also believe that you ought to buy one size larger that you can possibly imagine ever needing.

We have a DK45 cab kioti with loader. We have the industrial tire on it. These tires work the best if your not going to load the back tires and use it for cutting grass.

We cut about 2 acres of grass with a 6 foot finishing mower, blow snow with a 6 foot single auger blower, and rototill our garden plot that is about 6000 square feet each year. Have had it for 7 years now and only have 450 hours on her.

Its is hydro static so when it is cold it is not very responsive but after about 400 feet shes good to go in the winter.

Cab is great with the AC. No bugs, dirt, or dust all over you when cutting the grass. Don't get as nice of a sun tan as I did with the kobota.

4X4 helps in the winter and with the 6 foot loader its hard to get stuck. The loader is based off the bobcat quick attach so all the bobcat attachments will hook up.

Cheers Don.

I would suggest a JD or Kubota in the 30-40 hp, 4x4 , and FEL. The advantage to a tractor is the will reduce your manual work, get things done way faster, open up many options that aren't available without one(left heavy items, digging dirt, tilling gardens, piling limbs, PTO generators, post hole digger,....) Another great thing is they really don't cost you much of anything since they hold value so well. Most MAJOR BRAND tractors you can buy and in 10 years they will bring about what you gave for them. If you could buy a good used one with low hours, I would strongly consider it.

I found a brand new 2014 New Holland Boomer 24 with FEL for a decent price. Still thinking about it. Any opinions on that one?

The 24 is going to weigh approx 2500 with loader, have a rear lift of 1400 and FEL actual lift guessing about 600 pounds. While a WHOLE lot better than no tractor, still light. If you jump to the 30-40HP range those #s go up 80-110%.


http://www.tractordata.com/farm-tractors/008/1/3/8133-new-holland-boomer-24.html


I had a Kubota 3830 HST 4x4 would lift about 1000 actual weight with FEL and not sure on the rear.

http://www.tractordata.com/farm-tractors/001/8/5/1852-kubota-l3830.html

Boomer 35

http://www.tractordata.com/farm-tractors/006/7/4/6745-new-holland-boomer-35.html

https://www.fastline.com/v100/search-drill-down.aspx?Category=Tractors&HorsePower=1

I have a MX 5100 Kubota that does wonders at our 65 acre place..... but it has limits

My trailer is 3500 pound GVW, 5x12 deck. I want to be able to transport the tractor if need be and the tractor itself stretches my retirement budget. (15k out the door)

LS builds New Holland, and is usually a little cheaper for the same tractor. But don't know if you could find a 2014 model still in inventory.

at $15k you have a lot of options.

Tractors are like ponds, you start out thinking you will get one for $ then you look up and you are at $$ or $$ or $$$$$. There will always be a bigger and better one just out of reach.

You need to evaluate your needs for the tractor. What do you intend to use it for? What do you envision it's capabilities to be?

Personally, my opinion is to go no less than 40 hp, and 4000 lbs. Adding weight is fine, but adding hp is problematic once bought. You don't want to end up like a banty rooster, just scratching around on top of the ground without getting anything done. But, not all situations require the same tractor. What do you want to do with it?

Ya mean adding Nitrous isn't a viable option?

Diesel, bro.......probably be adding propane and more turbos!

I found a brand new Bobcat (made by Kioti) I've been very happy with it. It was by far the cheapest "new" tractor w loader I could find. It's still under warranty, etc.. I only get to the farm on weekends, and I'm not the most mechanical individual. I didn't want to be drinking around with the tractor all weekend, when I finally got up there. You can still get a Kioti, that would fit under your budget.
I do a lot of mowing with the brush hog, have made some trails through the woods using a box blade, and the loader. Hauled a lot of gravel also with the loader.
I did fill the rear tires with beet juice. It made a huge difference on stability with the loader full.
It's got four wheel drive, but that just means when I get it stuck, it's really stuck..

I agree, and adding a new injection pump and injectors. But, it's not only for gas motors. Here's what Gale Banks Engineering has to say:

Now that we have an overview of nitrous oxide injection on gasoline engines, let's consider nitrous oxide and the diesel, or more correctly, the turbo-diesel. To begin, a turbo-diesel has no air throttle. It is free to intake as much air as it can draw, or the turbochager can supply, on every intake stroke. Therefore, hot rodding the diesel is a matter of supplying the engine with as much fuel as can burned by the air available at maximum power. In fact, you can overfuel a diesel in the quest for power, but that results in excessive exhaust gas temperatures that will kill the turbocharger and the engine. It also results in black smoke from the exhaust (see "Why EGT is Important" elsewhere on this site).

Let's assume you've modified your turbo-diesel to the point that it is overfueled and belching black smoke under a full load. What can you do? One solution is to add nitrous oxide injection, but in this case, you would not add extra fuel because you're already too rich. Three things happen when you do this. First, the extra oxygen from the nitrous oxide leans out the mixture and the black smoke will be reduced or eliminated. Second, the excess fuel will now be burned for extra power. And third, exhaust temperatures will decline since less afterburning of fuel will occur in the exhaust manifold and the intercooling effect on the intake air will drop the exhaust temperature by a roughly equal amount.

When you think about it, adding nitrous oxide injection to a diesel is easier than adding it to a gas engine because you don't have to mess with adding extra fuel. In fact, there's no point in doing it unless you're already in an overfueled condition.

We've probably started something here that will quickly find its way into the pickup pulling power contests. If you've been to such a truck pull, you've seen the black smoke from overfueling. At Banks, we design our systems to increase engine airflow, and then we add fuel. Of course, if you go even further and intentionally overfuel a Banks power system, injecting some laughing gas just might bail you out before the pistons begin to melt and change holes.

Add em' both!

I want to drag some brush and clear out the final 500 feet of overgrown fence line. Move dirt and compost. Move some logs and medium sized rocks. Pull a trailer through my field with rocks, logs, or gravel loaded. Pull my ZTR out of the mud by the pond when needed. I don't have enough to mow to justify a belly mower, with the mowers I already have. I might get a 4 ft brush hog eventually. I have access to a box blade and roller if needed. I don't want to have to buy a bigger trailer if transport is needed. Tractor tires? Industrial or Turf? I might haul stuff in the yard, or roll the yard, so thinking turf.

I would go for the industrial tires, given your list of chores for the tractor. Turf tires CAN be easier on the lawn, but not when they're spinning....and you'll be doing lots of spinning when you head into the gravel pile or compost heap, trying to get a full bucket load with turf tires. If you envision doing lots of loader work, I would opt for a hydro. I love the convenience they offer when using the FEL.

The boomer you spoke of would do what you're asking, but it would be up to you to recognize what it's limitations were. Overtaxing it, or having to "ram" it to compensate for light weight will expose it's weakest link, sooner than later. Use it appropriately, and you will probably love it.

I bought a little Mahindra that has worked well so far.

So many uses.........








[img]http://s1303.photobucket.com/user/Tbar8/...ort=3&o=133[/img]

Ditto the industrial tires John. On that size tractor and for the use you will have for it.

Ag tires are made for the specific application of pulling implements through the field and clearing mud when the soil is too wet. From an absolute traction standpoint ag tires will pull more. But they are easily damaged by rocks or other debris if the tires are spun a little. And on that size tractor doing utility work it is inevitable. The industrial tires will add a couple hundred dollars to the cost of the machine but is well worth it. They will last longer, a little better in not getting flats from thorns or punctures, and just overall a lot more rugged tire. In addition, should you ever want to use a mower on nicer ground, the industrial tires are somewhere between turf tires and ag tires in the amount of damage they do to turf. Definitely avoid turf tires. They are useless in anything less than perfect traction conditions.

One other thing John, if you can get a pre-emissions tractor it would be a good thing in my opinion. Not sure how many years you have to go back, but I think about three.

If you look under the hood and there is a big stainless steel muffler looking contraption that has a Diesel line and electronic wires going to it, it has emmissions equipped.

On large farm tractors or over the road trucks these generally do not give lots of problems. But stop and go delivery trucks, utility type tractors that do not see a lot of full load action and other applications where the engine is not running at a good power level I see these as potentially problematic.

Under full load the engine runs pretty efficient and the particulate filter doesn't get plugged often. Under stop and go low temperature partial load applications the filter plugs up more often. Then the emmisions system goes into automatic regen mode where Diesel is injected into the unit, high temperatures are generated, and the particulate filter burns off the residue. This is all controlled by an onboard computer of course. To me it just looks like something to give trouble over time, particularly in a utility type application where 90% of the time the engine is operating under low partial loads.

I just bought our first such unit about a month ago (Versatile 500 tractor with 15L Cummins) so I have not had actual experience. But from what I have heard engines not used at higher load levels tend to give more problems than otherwise. The last two utility tractors I bought new actually were bought a year or two early just so I could avoid the next year model that had the emmision additions.

We have an LS dealer not far away also. Exactly the same tractors as New Holland, I understand. I may look at them also. Snrub, it might be hard to find a pre 2014 near new tractor, but I am going to look for that too. The smaller tractors may not be required to have those emissions controls? Maybe not the 2018 ones either, with the relaxed standards?

My 3038E does not have it, but new year models arriving when I bought it did. This caused me to go ahead and trade in my JD2520 (26hp), which was a great little tractor, before I was really thinking about trading. I had wanted a little larger tractor but in no way "needed" one. But the emmissions caused me to go ahead and trade. That and the fact that the dealer had carry over models he had not sold while new year models were coming in so he gave me what I thought was a very good trade in value.

About the same story on my 5083E but no trade. New models showing up had emmissions and dealer wanted to move inventory. I had wanted "my own" tractor of that size for a while so the emmissions caused me to go ahead and bite the bullet.

We have a number of utility tractors for the farm that have loaders that we use for jobs like mowing road ditches and running large grain augers, etc. But "my" tractor always seemed to be off on some other farm on an auger or mower or doing something so it was never home when I wanted it. So I splurged and bought one that is off limits to the rest of the farm unless it is a dire emergency. No one sets foot in it other than me or sometimes my grandson.

For me, owning these two completely unjustifiable farm purchases is my equivelant of someone owning a bass boat or airplane. They are my toys that I enjoy. Complete wasted money, but well worth it.

I think you will find most if not all new models will be emissions equipped. For a while mfgs got around it by stock piling engines. It was the engine mfg date, not the tractor mfg date that mattered. I do not know for a fact, but as I recall all I saw at farm shows had the filter emmissions equipment. The alternative is DEF, and as far as I know no one uses that method on the smaller engines and it has its own set of issues. We have avoided the DEF (Diesel Exhaust Fluid) engines to date also.

There is a possibility you could find a 3032E JD tractor that is a carryover that is pre emmissions. The 3032E and 3038E tractors are identical except for the engines. The 3032 is slightly larger displacement but non turbo. Only 6 hp less but rest of tractor identical so same weight and will do same work except for maybe mowing heavy grass or some pto work. I don't think you would see any difference in loader work cause you are almost never engine power limited. The 3032 was not as popular tractor because the cost was not that much less than the 3038 so most people opted for the slight more additional cost getting the extra power. The turbo tractor is a little more peppy but from a longivity and repair standpoint the 3032 would probably be the ever so slightly better choice.

I'm talking JD because that is what I am familiar with. There are lots of the other brands that look equally as good (the Korean origin tractors look to be well made). I just am speaking of what I have had experience with. You might be surprised at the pricing. Check with several JD dealers. Call the Pittsburg dealer. Ask for Craig and tell him I sent you. 316-231-0950

I would imagine a near identical conversation took place in the early seventies, with the introduction of electronic ignition in automobiles. Lots of folks buying up last year's models, out of fear of change. I KNOW it happened with the demise of carburetor engines, as I was neck deep involved with it.

There's always that distrust of new technology, that fear of the unknown, the apprehension regarding the genie that lives within the black box with the wires running to it. And in truth, there are often bugs and glitches that must be identified and corrected before everything works like it did in simulation.

But this is where we need to be accurate and honest with ourselves regarding intended usage. Using myself as an example, I haven't had my butt in a tractor seat for 8 weeks or so. Now I'm assuming that should I purchase a new unit, I will probably spend more time on it, at least in the beginning. So let's assume 2 hours a week, for a total of 100+ hours a year. The engine will regen every 50 hours, so there you go. Someone else stated 200 hours a year. There's 4 regen cycles a year.

Is it better to have commercial industrial equipment? It will probably be built heavier, this is true. But do I really need it for 200 hours a year? And what happens when tier 4 is all that's left? Do I just quit buying equipment? It's coming boys, matter of fact it's already here.

I remember pouring cold water over an electronic ignition module in my 1970's Ford PU to cool it down so I could get home. I'll wait till the bugs are worked out. At least the Chrysler "Christmas tree" dashboard on my wife's Jeep can be dimmed with electric tape... I can still work on my son's '66 Newport though. I love technology when it works, but failing sensors are just poor engineering.

And if everyone waits till the bugs are worked out, how will the bugs get worked out? Kind of a self-fulfilling failure?

Maybe it's just the technician in me, but I don't worry about such things. I recognize that some do, but that's okay. If there's unsold inventory, that may mean a better deal for me!

After having the lawn turf tire then having the industrial tire I will never go back to the turf tire ever again. On the farm we have the ag tire too but it will cut into the lawn more even in the summer over the industrial cut tire.

On the NOS on the diesel... at the track guys are putting on a very large turbo on their gas cars that is much too big for the motor. The problem with that is turbo lag. Its hard to launch the car trying to spool the turbo with this lag. What they are doing is hitting the motor on the line with NOS when on the two step. This spools the turbo really fast. Once the turbo makes boost there is a mechanical pressure switch that turns off the NOS. After the boost is up as long as the RPM's stay up because of gearing the rocket is off.

If everyone waits for the bugs to be worked out, then maybe companies will be forced to work the bugs out during development.

Or maybe we would all be touting McCormicks reaper and 50 bushel per acre as the epitome of farm progress. R&D never ever anticipates all....it takes field trials in real world operation to expose limitations.

As my youngest would say "You have WON the Golden Trophy".

Dead on about the USE of equipment and its cause / effect. I have been working with Tier 4 emissions EQ since 2006. I can tell you 100% you are correct on that the issue is actually Load while in use and not as much hours of use. It is hard to get people to understand a new piece of Equipment sitting at Idle for a few hours makes more soot than equipment under a heavy load working all week. I have spent many $$$$$ over the years because someone would leave a piece of equipment idling and not be there to perform the active regeneration.

Congrats on your knowledge.

"And not be there to perform the active regeneration"

And whose fault is that? A warranty covers defects in material and workmanship, NOT improper use by the operator.

When I was in business, that was the hardest point to make people understand. Too many people think that once they open their checkbook for a purchase, the manufacturer is on the hook for everything, including unskilled operators. Not true. Some will make a goodwill adjustment, but that is optional on their part, NOT mandatory.

Are you guys talking about regeneration of diesel particulate filters?

Actually most EQ is in a Passive regeneration under heavier load usage and that will make for less frequent Active regens. I have EQ that will make it the entire year without having to have an Active regen performed (push the switch). Like wise I have EQ that does nothing more than idle most of the time that does not perform a passive regen. The Idling EQ has to have a Active regen performed about every few days (100+ times a year). The DPF catches Soot which is produced more when idling than at any other time of operation. The soot is turned into ash during regen that has to be cleaned on a maintenance cleaning cycle from the DPF. As the ash load increases over time from the burned soot more frequent regens will be required and in my experience more Active regens also. If you EQ is DEF equipped you could possibly (depending on EQ manufacturer) have it programmed to inject more DEF that will also result in less frequent active regeneration. This stuff is not rocket science by no means and has been out for 11 years now in a on highway application. That has allowed for a lot of research and development for the Off the road industry. That is why when the Emission regulations were established the On road was always one tier ahead of the off road EQ.

However in a recreational use I would not see it being near the problem it is / was for me over the years. My issues are not the regen process but all the **** parts / sensors / wiring that make the system work correctly. This complicates my life on having to always keep Equipment running 24/7/365.

Yes that is it

Generally the person that was just fired. LOL

I know all to well of how operations like I am involved in are getting taken care of why the little man is getting the shaft. My problem is all the warranty and policy does not prevent down time.

BTW I have access to so many other people to turn a wrench for little to no cost to me old does not matter on a personal level.

Interesting...

"Health Considerations[edit]
The additional cost burden of DPF filters is primarily passed to consumers with possibly the only benefit being quieter trucks. Any reduction in overall soot by mass, aka diesel particulate matter (DPM), may be negated by the mostly-ignored fact that DPM from DPFs is extremely fine, finer than the DPM that is released from pre-DPF diesel engines.[citation needed] The finer DPM is estimated to have more surface area and penetrate lung tissue more easily than larger particles. No healthy human studies have been performed at diesel exhaust concentrations normally found in an urban or city environment, eliminating other health contributing factors to disease would be insurmountable in such a study.[11]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_particulate_filter

Just to throw in another perspective, my wife and I bought a JD 1025R sub compact tractor last summer. We got the belly mower and front loader attachments (to start). Yes, it's only 24 HP and a hydrostat. But it's been perfect for us. Big enough, but not too big. Has a 3 point hitch and PTO. I also add a 'heavy hitch' (which makes it easy to add counter weights for loader use) and also has 2 in receiver for using trailers and a hitch haul. It's been extremely useful to us, and works well for our small acreage (12 acres). No, it wasn't cheap but we did feel like we received a quality tractor for our money.
As with all things on the forum, it does 'depend'. On your needs vs your budget. But a tractor is definitely a game changing tool for a pond and/or acreage owner. I highly recommend one.

A couple days ago, I stopped by the office in a building here on campus, to ask about the possibility of taking the elevator down for a few minutes to effect a minor repair. The young lady at the desk was positively mortified. "You mean those break down??" was her incredulous response.

Yes. Anything mechanical with one or more moving parts will break down.

Speaking of which, it was getting hot in my office just now (sun beating on windows and pleasant day today) Apparently our 2 elevators in the building went down. They were on same power supply as the roof top a/c units apparently?? They had to take down the a/c to work on elevators. They went down at 2pm and at 3pm everything was up and running. Pretty impressive that a elevator tech could travel, arrive onsite, diagnose and fix the problem in an hour!

A/c is back on and things are cooling down again. Amazing that we don't have a back up plan for elevator failure. We are a medical facility and we have no alternate way to get wheelchair bound people to the second floor. We were scrambling to find lift teams to lift people while in their wheelchair up the flights of stairs and back down again..... Fortunately only one group of passengers was stranded in the elevator when the trouble began...

My Tier 3 to Tier 4 experience is Maintenance cost increased by over 19% & operation productivity decreased by 24%.

BTW reality is Inflation accounted for a few percent of maintenance cost. Most of the operation productivity decline comes due to more down time.

I hear you Tums. And I were faced with keeping several hundred pieces of equipment functioning 24/7, I might feel the same as you. Fortunately however, we're talking consumer usage here, so it's essentially a non-issue.

I am curious though, what are your plans for the future? Adopt the inevitable technology, hope to stumble across a warehouse full of brand new, pre-emissions equipment that has just been sitting in storage, or go out of business?

Change is constant, whether it be a pond or clean burn technology. I see it as learning to adapt, or being left behind. I don't have to like it, but there's not much I can do to escape it. Might as well educate myself and keep moving forward.

The manufacturer's that find ways to make durable machines will reap the rewards (think Japanese cars), and the rest will be forced to follow. Most cars now go 200K rather than 100K. The trend is clear but it has its ups and downs.. I am glad that I took care of my JD1070 and hope my 550G dozer and 410E hoe never die.

Exactly! In the beginning, catalytic converters and egr valves stopped up, and charcoal canisters filled vacuum passages with black granules. Taxi fleets, municipal shops, and dealership mechanics all cried and stomped their feet while administration watched productivity and the bottom line shrink.

But emission technology didn't go away. And the ones who stuck it out, learned to adapt. And the manufacturers learned also. And now, we seldom see issues at all. Diesel, will follow suit. Clean diesels are not going away...get on board, get left behind, or retire. You will need to make changes, and change is scary, but it will still happen.

Nothing wrong with holding on to pre emission diesels, nothing at all. But if no one buys new, then why would manufacturers continue production? If we all refuse to buy new, then there won't be any replacement when that old diesel eventually gives out. THEN, we wouldn't care if it burned wet leaves...we just want a replacement. I'm hoping that folks keep buying, and factories keep improving.

I got a used 2016 LS brand XJ2025HT. Had 23 hours on it, and most of factory warranty left. There is no new emissions equipment on this motor. The dealer told me that under 25 HP are exempt from the new requirements. It's 24.4 HP. I got it with loader and 5 foot grader blade. Industrial tires.

I think you will really enjoy it John.

Good for you!

Awesome!!!!

I'm betting you will wonder how you ever got along without it.

And John F, if you'd like to experience a forum of tractor lovers right along the lines PondBoss forum is for pond lovers, take a look at tractorbynet.com.

It's another civil, experienced, responsive group of people like ourselves only with all things tractor on the brain. There are wonderful threads on DIY fabricating, snow plowing, how stuff works, repairs, on and on.

I recommend the tractorbynet.com forum to any and all who are interested in these kinds of things.

My limited economics knowledge suggests that buying inferior products does not spur innovation. Refusing to buy them does. Folks tend to follow rewards. Reward poor performance and you can be sure to get more of the same. Detroit stepped up when they lost sales to Japan. BTW - My JD 1070 has a Yanmar engine and the tractor was made in Japan. The dealer bragged the tractor was engineered by Deere, so I told him I would gamble on that and buy it anyway:)

If no one buys inferior products, how is the conclusion that they are indeed inferior, reached?

Do people really expect to have every possible contingency and circumstance accounted for in the laboratory or research facility? We're still talking built by human beings, right?

Maybe it's just too many years spent making a living working on and selling equipment, but the idea that perfection of any mechanical device is due once I open my wallet, I find ludicrous. I do expect the manufacturer to work with me in resolving issues rather than abandon me after the sale, but I recognize that unaccounted for variables may exist and rear their heads in an unfortunate manner.

How the manufacturer responds to that determines whether or not I continue to do business with that entity, not so much the design of the equipment itself...that can be changed. Policy is another story.

Emission controls are here to stay. They will continue to evolve, but they absolutely aren't going away. No company, offshore or otherwise, has it all figured out right now. It's all a continual work in progress.

No matter what color the tractor, assure that a dealer for maintenance is local. My closest is about 50 miles either North or South.

Absolutely!

The dealer I bought from is about 75 miles away and is the closest warranty dealer. It was a compromise to save $2,400. On the way home, I found that my 3500 lb 2-wheel trailer is marginal for transport. I had a flat about a third of the way home, fortunately near the small town of Ozark. I put the spare on, it seemed marginal, so we went into town, found a tire shop, and bought a good tire. If I have to take it back for warranty, I think I will borrow or rent a 4-wheel trailer. The trailer hubs never became more than slightly warm, but the tires seemed overloaded, even though the total load was only about 2,800 pounds, plus the trailer itself.

You will love having a tractor. In a years time you will think it is impossible to live without one.

Congrats John F



LOL the reason why I know all the pit falls of Tier 4 is I am proactive. Business do Tier 4 since we do not have any other viable options. In order to keep contracts in the go green era your equipment must constantly be moving in that direction. See a lot of big business will say you must have X# of Smartway EQ (Going Green) to be eligible for contract. We Had the first Caterpillar Tier 4 engine in Alabama in 2006. I even carried it to a Caterpillar open house with our then Governor in attendance. Anyway I excepted the technology and we passed the extra expenses on to the consumer. I am constantly working to fix it before it breaks through maintenance programs and other options (no idle tech ect). I have been in the business 30 years and Tier 4 is viable big business option. I however do know small mom and pop business that Tier 4 done them in. I personally will not own the current Tier 4 emission EQ for my private recreational use. I feel my personal money would be better spent refurbishing old school EQ for my own private recreation use. It is not like I can not get the parts as all of this stuff is still being made new for non Tier 4 countries. Cat stopped producing Tier 4 on highway engines for Tier 4 countries. They did not stop making engines for the rest of the world.

BTW I know were there is 20 New Cat pre emissions engines in storage.

Sweet! Now all you need to do is divide those 20 engines between the several hundred pieces of equipment you're responsible for, and you'll be able to eek out another ?????? Years of production.

Those big companies get government contracts so tax dollars pay for the regulation and then pay again to fix the broken pollution controls put in place to meet them. We need environmental regulation, but IMO things have gotten out of control. We'll see where things land in 4 years...

Oh crap,there goes the thread..

I only use them when the block is no good for a engine rebuild. Part of being in early on Tier 4 we was able to establish were we needed to use the older EQ and what would be the best way to use T4+ EQ.


Actually it has graduated to 2nd tier were in order to do business with big companies that get government contracts you must comply. Lets say you are a trucking company and want to haul loads of paper for X Paper company by contract from say Alabama to States in the Southeast. In order to get the contract you will needs X% of equipment that complies with California Regulations. This means you will needs X% equipment regulated down to what kind of tires you can even put on it.

John be sure and read the operators manual on proper ballasting for loader use.

Two reasons. One is safety. Having enough weight on the rear of the tractor, especially low center of gravity weight, makes the tractor more stable with a bucket load in the loader. Keep the bucket low to the ground when loaded except when raising to dump. Never be turning a corner with the bucket fully raised loaded unless you absolutely have to, then slowly and carefully. But you probably already knew that.

The other reason is to prolong the life of the mechanical front wheel drive. With inadequate rear weight, that little front differential and associated parts takes the full horsepower of the engine. With adequate weight on the back the rear wheels are doing their fair share of the work so the load is distrubuted away from the front end. One of the weakest links on the small 4wd tractors is the front drive mechanism. They take a lot of abuse and for as small as they are, they are not cheap to repair. So do yourself a favor and weight the rear properly for loader work.

There are several ways to acomplish this. Rear cast wheel weights, fluid in the rear tires, a rear mounted implement on the 3pt hitch, or a weight box built for the 3pt hitch.

I use a combination of cast weight and windshield washer fluid in the rear tires (tire dealer can do it - we buy in 55 gallon drums) plus usually a box blade on the rear. As I recall my JD manuals for the numerous 5000 series tractors I have owned recomended at least two types of rear ballast to get enough rear weight. Adequate rear weight will make the tractor more stable on hillsides, will make it work better with a loader, and will prolong the life of the front wheel drive.

When we owned commercial turkey grow out barns we used a weight box filled with concrete because the tractor loaders were used extensively in close quarter buildings (rear blades tended to reach out and grab trusses). But for most home owners a rear blade of some sort will suffice for part of the weight. Check the manual. It should give minimum recomendations.

Just a tip for better tractor use.

Well done John! You won't regret it. Have you started sourcing for additional attachments yet?

Here's a picture taken today. We did a bunch of yard work.

Very very nice! You have a garden planted and growing already in February????

Cute!

That is about the same size as the JD 2520 I had. Loved that little tractor and did a ton of the work around my ponds you saw.

You will love it.

Your Christmas wish list should include a box blade, tiller, pallet fork attachment, and 4' brush cutter.

Esshup has a grapple on his bucket which I think would be the cats meow. I have a grapple attachment on a rock picking bucket on a larger tractor loader and it is amazing how much hand pickup work that can save.

That is a good looking loader.

The good features I notice are the dump linkage on the bucket. That type linkage compared to the cylinders being directly attached to the quick tatch means better dump angle and roll back. My 3038E does not have the rollback force I think it should have.

It has a quick tatch on off. I rarely took the loader off my 2520 but if a person wants to mow or till in really tight quarters, removing it can cut the length of the tractor significantly improving mobility. I usually just drop the bucket when mowing.

Bucket level indicator I would not be without.

I like it!

No, not yet, but it was about 80 degrees today. That's just some winter cover growing in the garden. We don't usually plant warm season garden plants until about April 20 or so. We sometimes have wild temperature swings day to day.

That thing looks about as handy as a pocket on a shirt. Enjoy, John!!

Please keep us apprised of you activities with the tractor and how you like it, and include pictures!

Sweet ride

Probably not going to hear much out of him till he gets the new worn off the tractor.

He has a new toy to play with!

When I bought my old farmall, I spent days riding, plowing, discing. Etc. I was like a kid in a candy store. I got it out on our gravel road and the wife clocked me at 17 miles an hour. That's a fun ride on a gravel road.

We cleaned up old flower beds and used it some more today.

Snrub,
I'm getting a weight box for the rear hopefully sometime next week.

That weight box will not "snag" on things in tight places like your blade will, plus be heavier.

Good idea.

Don't know. That blade hangs way out there, and weighs about 200 pounds. The weight box I'm looking at weighs 132 pounds empty. If I use rocks for ballast, I suppose I could get it up to 350-400 pounds. The box has a sliding front plate for loading ballast. Any suggestions for easily removable and heavy ballast would be welcome.

FWIW I use sand bags in my weight box. Very easy to load and unload.

I am a fan of calcium chloride in the rear tires for ballast. No loading, unloading, or attaching needed. A grader box on the back does help with dirt work though.

I also favor liquid ballast, but after replacing both rear rims on the 801 due to being eaten up by the calcium chloride, I would use beet juice, washer fluid, something not as corrosive.

Are they switching away from calcium chloride commercially? I do worry about corrosiveness.

Is the washer fluid lighter than Calcium Chloride?

I have always used the calcium chloride, and after 48 years in the one tractor, it is starting to shows signs that worry me.

Here is a rundown on tire ballast:

http://www.orangetractortalks.com/2009/01/comparing-types-of-liquid-tire-ballast/

If you want the most weight cast iron or steel. If you can find some cast you know is scrap it can go in with rocks or concrete. The two I built we just filled with concrete but we built them reasonably large compared to the boughten ones I see. The one boughten one I have I just filled it with crushed rocks with fines then put a 4" concrete cap to make the top flat and solid. If for some reason you want to load/unload it things become more complicated. If I wanted removable weights I would probably go to a tractor salvage and build me a 3pt rack to hold whatever front tractor weights were the cheapest I could buy. Salvage yards have piles of oddball weights along with the ones they can actually sell.

I don't hardly ever use the weight boxes any more because most of my work is now out in the open. A box blade sits on the back anytime no other implement is used and they sit pretty compact on the back. Welded a receiver hitch on the back of it so I can move non-heavy trailers without unhooking the box blade.

As far as fluid, we have went exclusively to windshield washer fluid. I think we pay 50 cents a gallon in 55's from our oil distributer. Back in the old days when our row crop tractors with skinny tires needed all the help they could get, we used a calcium chloride solution for significant added weight (much heavier than plain water). But invariably at some point in the tractors life a leak or seep would occour and there goes your rim. Very corrosive stuff and now fewer and fewer tire dealers want to mess with the stuff. This last spring we had to replace all 4 rims on a Cat IT28 articulated loader because the previous owner had filled all 4 tires with calcium chloride and all 4 of the split rims were no longer safe to use because of rust. You have to keep the fill at 75% or more to keep the insides of rims from rusting also. With todays large tractors and fat tires and duals we just figure the ballast needed and have our tire dealer pump that amount of washer fluid in each inner tire. Or in the case of loader tractors, just the rear singles. We do not have fluid in all tractors, just the ones that had inadequate cast weighting. If a person is far enough south where the tires will not freeze, ordinary water will work.

Fluid in tires does complicate fixing flat tires so it is not an entirely best way to go. But it is one option, and it does keep the center of gravity low for loader tractors. Cast iron weights are not cheap any more.

If you want to see some cast iron weights on tractors these are the two latest tractors I have purchased. Front, side, top and rear depending on the tractor.

Versy 500 rack of cast iron weights behind cab and another above rear axle

JD 9630T rack of weights front and full rack on each side. No front idler weights though.

I like fluid because it's not tractor supported weight. Less wear and tear if the tractor isn't holding it up, like a weight box. Puts the weight right on the tire/ground.

Fluid and a pair of cast iron center wheel weights each side made my JD3038E tractor feel much more stable on the pond dam than when I first got it. I was kind of goosey on it before the weighting. Hard to beat that portion of the weight that is right down at the ground for low center of gravity stability.

These little utility tractors have a pretty narrow tread and are not the best thing for sidehill stability. I usually use my Bad Boy Outlaw QP zero turn mower for the pond dam, although I have mowed it with the 3038 and rear finish mower as well as a 15' flex wing mower behind the 5083E. The latter is a really rouh cut. The 5083E I have the adjustable rear wheels set all the way out, plus cast iron weihts plus fluid so it is pretty stable. The 3038E is probably the least stable of any of the above, but adequate.

Moved some fallen trees this morning and glad to have wheel ballast, especially rolling a 30+" diameter, 30+' long ash tree with the root ball attached to relieve stress for cutting up as firewood. I did not expect to budge it, but chains and careful planning got'er done. My link repair on one of the chains is not holding though.

Too bad we're not neighbors, RAH. When we re-cable elevators we end up with several hundred feet of used, but still serviceable cables. The 3/8 and 1/2 sizes are awesome for pulling logs/trees.

I have a very capable tractor mechanic that also works at home and is an excellent welder. I'll ask him how he repairs log chains. I think we would get along pretty good as neighbors based on you posts. May not agree on everything, but that would be boring! If you are ever heading north, be sure to drop me a PM and come visit.

I found a new, unused Titan Attachments weight box on CL and bought it yesterday. Now to find something heavy to fill it.....

John, set you up a spot dedicated to parking that weight box. Three point weights work well, but they are a pain in the butt for those who swap out attachments often. Having a spot with a hard surface to set the thing down on will ease hooking/unhooking chores.

I would agree with that sprkplug. If on ground that turns soft after a rain and they fall over, it will take the loader and a chain to upright.

Something I never did to my weight boxes, but still think is a good idea, is to get a stout piece of drawbar material and make a hitch on the back. Or better yet a long weld on receiver tube. It would need to be tied in to the 3pt so it would not just not rip the back plate off. Now a person would need to use some judgement in its use and not overload it or do something stupid. But it is surprising how many times a person needs to move a light trailer or log splitter or whatever but doesn't want to have to hook and un hook the weight box. If a person filled it up above this drawbar with concrete (even if he left the top open as a caryall box) it would stiffen up the light gauge box so it should be ok.

What brought this idea up was my forever hooking and unhooking my box blade for that very reason. Maybe I only wanted to move my log splitter, or paddle boat trailer or two wheel trailer to mow around. I use my box blade as my rear counterweight. Once I welded a 2"receiver hitch recepticle to the box blade, I rarely have to remove it to do light duty trailer moving. Plus the 3pt is hydraulic up down so I rarely even need to touch the screw jack on any trailer. Handy as a pocket on a shirt. Keep a receiver stub with a hole and one with a ball around handy. Also welded a chain grab hook to the top of the receiver, so if I need to drag a limb or something with a chain I can adjust the length right there at the hooking point.

Every loader bucket I have also has two chain grab hooks welded right on the bucket at the point of the upper quick tach points where the bucket is stoutest and all the pull comes from. Would not own a loader bucket without grab hooks on it. Chain lifting length adjustment and lift point right where you need it. Not osha approved so don't do somethign stupid though. Makes hauling long logs or limbs easy. Use to pull fence posts, etc. Lift up weight boxes that have fallen over.

This weight box has a two inch ball mount receiver welded onto the bottom and tied into the frame of the box.

Now that is smart!

Added picture to previous post.

That looks excellent.

Harbor freight has an adjustable receiver that might be handy for that application. I noticed the receiver is at the bottom, so for most level hitching you will likely have the 3pt raised fully.

Sometimes moving trailers and such short distances it is handy to be abale to back under the hitch, raise the trailer to above level, and move it a ways (to mow for example) without messing with the jack.

One of those adjustable hitches might be just the ticket. It has two pins to adjust the height. I don't think I would really trust one much for serious hauling behind a vehicle, but it should handle everything your size tractor will dish out.

I wonder if six 60 pound sandbags would be about the right weight? Combined with the box weight, that would be 492 pounds.

I needed some more weight on the front of my old 1969 IH2444 so I had some cut out of scrap at work(no FEL). Added 200#'s in addition to the cast iron weights up front. Put them on 9 years ago and it sure keeps the front end on the ground better.

Also had some cut to that fit the plow trays.

The sand bags would sure be a cheap and easy thing to try. If they worked to suit you, keep them. If you feel you need more weight, keep your eye out for some scrap cast or someones unused tractor front weights. You can always use the sand elsewhere.

One thing that is handy is having a place on the tractor to store a chain. A 16-20' 5/16 gr70 chain is invaluable to have with you all the time (especially if you weld 2 grab hooks on your loader bucket as I suggested). Keep that in mind with your weight box and think about incorporating a chain box or rack back there too.

I always go in the house and ask the lady folk to come out and sit in the box. Weights it down pretty well.

Why am I having a hard time believing that?

I'll answer my own question. Because you are still alive!

I got one of these that I use in the receiver tube I welded to the back of my box blade.

adjustable receiver hitch

Notice how good we are at spending your money for you John? We got lots more suggestions!

I welded a ball on the box blade and back up to trailer and away we go

I use sand bags in my weight box and they have been ok. Very easy to remove as I often use the weight box to carry tools and other stuff I need for the job of the day. I will say there are occasionally times I wish I had more weight than the sand bags provide.

Snrub,

I thank you for reminding me about the grab hooks on the bucket! When I was growing up on the farm, my dad had those welded on every bucket and they were fantastic. I don't have a welder but next time my tractor is in the shop they will be installed!

I carry a 20 foot 1/4 inch chain on the tractor. I have a 3/8 in the garage if a big job comes along. Anything bigger than that is a waste for the HP I have available.

I have to admit that I'm surprised at the number who utilize their three point to hold weight. Once fitting a loader, does the hitch simply go unused from that point on? Around here, tying up the three point with a weight box is virtually unheard of. Wheel weights, liquid in tires, and suitcase weights account for the majority of ballast.

The owner manual specifies to use a heavy rear implement or weight box when using the loader in order to unload the front axle.

We used them any time we were not using the tractor for something else on the rear for our two barn tractors that were used in our turkey grow out operation. But the loader was used daily to chore and the rear of the tractor was only used when we were either tilling liter or using a pull type house keeper to remove cake manure. So our weight boxes got used a lot.

When cleaning out barns, the longest one of four was 630 feet long but only 40 feet wide. If we used a weight box on the back for ballast with the 4 cylinder 4wd utility tractors we could turn around fully without backing up with the weight boxes on but with a rear blade run the high risk of hooking a metal truss along the wall when doing so. The weigh t boxes worked well for us.

I built both of those weight boxes and incorporated my own quick attach system. Our pull type housekeepers used the three point to set depth of the cutting edge and used a standard drawbar for the 3pt lower links that can be found in any farm store. I used these drawbars as the basis for a lower quick attach for the weight box so it was a matter of about 30 seconds to a minute to hook up or remove the weight box. Using a conventional 3pt hook up about once in 5 tries you might get it in a minute but the rest of the time you had to move the tractor around to get all the pins lined up. And we even had extendable lower links. So for us dropping or attaching the weight box was nothing and was done as needed.

Now I have a new boughten one for my JD 5083 that I have hardly used. I much prefer the box blade on the back because it is useful with the loader, yet is still fairly short coupled. But if doing lots of repetetive loader work, like when we were doing total cleanouts of the buildings or loading litter trucks to spread in the fields, the weight boxes were the much preferred method of additional rear ballast. And we had a full set of cast weights on the rear wheels (but no fluid - I did not know about winshield washer fluid then and did not want calcium chloride).

If you have a weak loader, weighting the wheels might be enough. The tractors we used, with an oversized bulk material bucket for liter or even a standard bucket with dirt, we had enough break away force to lift the rear end off the ground unless there was additional weight on the 3pt. The Deere 5000 series tractor manual listed three forms of additional rear ballast as acceptible and to meet the rear weight requirements of the loader at least two of the three were required to meet the weight requirement. We simply could not get enough rear ballast without something on the 3pt, and the weight boxes were the most effective in confined spaces. To have not used 3pt weight would have been not observing the operator manual requirements and based on some of your other posts I am sure you can appreciate the operator trying to operate the tractor according to mfg's requirements. The tractors, lifting to maximum heights loading trucks were really not safe without proper rear ballast. The weight boxes did not tend to accidentally run into things like bulkier rear attachments.

Weight boxes have their place. The nice thing about his size tractor, most of his size implements (including probably the weight box) can be man handled around a little to line up the pins. My JD 2520 was that size. When I went up to the JD 3038E, not so much. Stuff is just enough bigger I like a quick hitch on its 3pt. But quick hitches on cat. 1 tractors have their own set of glitches. I finally have all my implements quick hitch compatible, although I still hook the top link seperately. But that is a whole nuther story.

Bingo.

Same thing in Deere manuals. The tractor is way more stable with rear hitch weight also if you are loading heavy material, and doubly so if you are lifting to maximum height on anything other than level ground or have to turn to dump.

More weight you get on the back the safer it will be and the better it will be on the front gears. Weight sticking out the rear, pound for pound, is more beneficial than rignt at the rear wheels. Leverage particularly makes a difference on a short wheel base tractors. Our 4 cylinder tractors (various 5000 series Deeres over the years) were much better in loading applications involving lifting to height than the 3 cylinder because of the 6" longer wheelbase. But they also were not as manuverable in the barns.

+1 In my way of thinking, adding weight to the rear wheels improves traction but does nothing to unload the front axle as there is no fulcrum point with wheel weights.

So what I'm hearing is that loaders are matched more to the prospective buyers eyeballs, rather than the capacity of the tractor to adequately handle them.

That does make sense now that I think about it, as similarly sized tractors from yesteryear featured much smaller buckets on their loaders. I'm used to adding weight for traction and stability, NOT as a teeter-totter off the back axle because the front axle is too marginal to get the job done. And instructing the owner to add three point weight, rather than just beef up the axle, appears shoddy at first, but then again we have become a society that takes everything literally.

"The manual states the bucket will carry 1500 lbs, and I'm not going to be satisfied with 1499!"

Never mind that the max weight was calculated on paper, under absolute perfect conditions.

I'm not in a production environment, so I don't think under utilizing the weight capacity of the loader will bother me any more than tier 4 emissions will. It's either that, or an older machine that's built heavier, and I'm over that.

Guess I'll just have to use a little horse sense, and pay attention to how I load the bucket. I'm not prepared to use my hitch as a hat rack at this stage, I need to have both front and back of whatever tractor I choose in play.

I do think following the manual is safest, especially if one is not used to a tractor. They will hurt you, be careful!

The weight might be an issue on the front axle, but I think when they refer to loading they are talking about the amount of horsepower being transferred through the front drive train. The components in the front drive train are much smaller than the rear end of the tractor. Thus if the rear wheels are providing very little traction the front end gears take the brunt of the power being used and shorten its life.

We have (I say we, actually my mechanics) been into the front end outter wheels twice on my FIL's JD970 (Yanmar). I think he has about 2500 hours on it. The gears are not very robust, but then it is only around 25 hp.

The reason for both times repair on his was not loading issues though. It was plastic baler twine issues. He has a pasture that is rented out but he has a very small Dearborn manure spreader that he likes to spread manure from the feeding area on the pastures. The neighbor does a lousy job of removing the plastic twine from the hay bales. FIL with very poor eyesight would spin the front wheels in the manure to get a bucket full, wrapping the twine around the wheel and streching it into the bearing seal area. Even if the outter area was cut off, the part that could not be seen eventually takes out the seal and that eventually leads to bearing failure. The first time we had brought the tractor to our shop for a much needed service job and caught it just in time. Oil was almost leaked out and outter bearing bad but new bearings fixed it. The next time it happened not so lucky. A bearing ball dropped down into the gears. It chipped a tooth about a quarter way off but some judisious use of a carbide bur and new bearings and he was going again. Had the ball broke a tooth off, broke upper shaft, or punched a hole in the casing the repair would not have been cheap.

So that is a warning to anyone with these front wheel drives on these small tractors. Don't let baler twine wrap around them as it destroys the seals (actually same goes for rear axles). Also, if you see a leak start for whatever reason, get it repaired. There is only a small amount of oil in these units and what might look like a small leak might mean it is close to running dry. Or at least check all the front end fluid levels more often if there appears a seep or leak.

Sad that the front axles aren't up to the tasks commonly associated with a loader. A good case for buying the next larger sized machine, and NOT loading it to capacity either.

My JD1070 has never needed work on the front end. Next size up from the 970. My loader is a Great Bend. Tried the JD loader, but it hit the exhaust.

Your comments are well taken sprkplug, and if what you are used to using is older 2wd tractors, the new mfwd imports are significantly different. Miles better, in my opinion for a home owner, but definttely different.

Some things you may not have thought of. A 25 hp compact utility tractor is significantly lighter and shorter wheelbase than compared to a 1950's or 60's American tractor. That is both good and bad. The compact utilities drive and handle more like a lawn tractor than a farm tractor. They are exceptionally manuverable. All that for a home owner is good. But that short wheel base makes rear ballast more of a must.

Also a mfwd (mechanical front wheel drive in JD talk) will do just so much more than a 2wd that a person will not believe it till they use one. But......... when a person has the front end of the tractor somewhat pointed down while digging a hole, it is not so much the loader lift capacity that causes one to notice lack of rear ballast. It is the fact that while lifting with the bucket and going into reverse the little front wheels literally try to crawl underneath you. A 2wd will not do that. The rear wheels just spin. But the more weight transfer the bucket gives the front end wheels, the more traction they get, not less. So an under ballasted tractor will have the rear wheels off the ground (not a safe thing) in a hearbeat. 2wd can never do this. The rear wheels on a 2wd can only be lifted off the ground by whatever loader lift capacity there is. There is no front traction trying to drive the front end back underneath the loader. It is just unbelievable what the little mfwd tractors will do.

As far as bucket width, you are right in that most of them are marginally too big if a person is loading dirt or sand (heavy materials). They make these buckets shorter to compensate to lessen their capacity somewhat. But there is a very good reason to put that width bucket on the tractors. The bucket is usually designed to just cover the tread width of the wheels. This makes it very handy when trying to load something up beside a wall. Also, the front bucket is about ten times better at leveling by backdragging than a rear blade. Rear blades and box blades have their place, but I use the bucket 90% of the time when leveling fresh gravel by back dragging. By altering the angle of the bucket and down pressure an operator can get a baby butt smooth job. I have operated farm and construction equipment, both small and large for over 50 years, and I still can do much more from a smoothing standpoint with the loader bucket than a box blade and a regular blade is even worse to control. So that is the other reason for a wide bucket in relation to loader and tractor capacity. Having the bucket as wide as the tractor is very useful.

If you ever buy one of these small hydrostat mfwd utility tractors sprkplug, you will think you died and gone to heaven tractor wise. My FIL still has an 8n Ford and uses it to spread manure and a few things when 2 tractors are better than one. But you ought to have seen the grin on his face the first time he used it. And it only has a mechanical transmission and clutch. No hydrostst.

I relate my commercial and farm use on here hoping my experience and range of tractor use might useful for others, even if their tractors will never be exposed to that level of use. I started driving tractors on my dad's knee at the ripe age of 6 and was doing limited field work at 8 (B Jd and 8N Ford at the time). By 12 years of age I was a regular field hand when not in school. My first new tractor purchase was a 3020 JD Diesel at the age of 13 (purchased from savings earned doing field work for quite a few years) and had bought two new tractors and one used before graduating high school. I had employees (school buddies) by the time I was 16 and had my own custom hay baling business operated in the summers. I've lost track of how many tractors I've bought over the years but the smallest was a Bolens 15 hp Diesel (used inside the turkey barns tilling while turkeys were in the barn) and we have several now that exceed 500 hp. When my high school buddies were reading Hot Rod magazine in high school, I subscribed to Implement and Tractor, fudging a little on my occupation since it was an industry magazine with limited and controlled circulation. By the time I was 21 I owned a small farm equipment business, had mechanics hired, and was selling new tractors. Owned that business for 7 years while also farming, selling it when I had the chance to farm full time.

I don't want it to come across as bragging, although reflecting on it all I've really been blessed by the opportunities presented over the years. I guess my point is, I've had a pretty fair amount of experience with a range of sizes of tractors. Not sure how many off hand we have on the farm at this time, but something around a dozen.

Some guys like to see a big rack on a deer. Some want a trophy Bass on the wall. Some guys are classic car or Corvette guys. Some like Harleys. I really, really wanted a brand new Dodge F250 pickup with bucket seats in 1968. Instead I bought a 3020 JD Diesel and an old 1955 3/4 ton Chevy pickup that was my high school date car. Me???.......I'm a tractor guy.

I hope my experience can at times benefit others here on the forum.

I just welded a plate and had a 2" ball on the back of my 4' box blade with my 2520 tractor. When I went up in size to a 5' box blade for the 3038 decided to get fancy and weld a receiver so I could change things if wanted. The reality is I rarely change the hitch out but the ability is there if I want to. That and a long receiver tube worked perfect to tie the three point hitch to the rear of the box blade structurally, so it was a natural fit.

But a ball hitch on the back for me lets me move trailers around that I otherwise might just be lazy and not unhook the blade. And I am extremely lazy because I even have a quick hitch, so hooking and unhooking is a breeze.

I can appreciate your experience snrub. Certainly where the newer stuff is concerned. Equipment, rather it be tractors, lawnmowers, chainsaws, whatever, is a great example of getting what you paid for, I believe. I'm hoping the 45-50 hp tractors I'm looking into are robust enough to handle their bucket. Stripping gears out of the front axle is not on my to do list.

I'm also a big fan of not using something to its capacity, certainly not all the time. If I find myself doing so, I've purchased the wrong machine, and need to go bigger.

Farm and utility quality loaders are not really meant for continual hard use. But for a home owner or farmer with reasonable use and reasonable care can function for a long time.

Knowing what I know now, I would have owned an industrial loader of some type back when we owned and operated the turkey operation. We now have a Cat IT28 articulated loader and a JCB tractor loader backhoe. They make a farm loader look and act like a toy. I can do more with an 80 hp industrial loader than a farm tractor loader twice the size (and I have one with a CTV transmission). There is just no comparison to what they can do, and do without breaking, compared to a farm loader. And we own and have owned farm tractor loaders with hydraulic reversers and CVT transmissions, the best that farm tractors can be for loading. But an actual torque converter and a loader with twice the beef just dwarfs the farm tractors ability. The highest hour turkey barn tractor had over 5000 hours when we traded it with minimal breakdowns or down time, starting and operating 365 days a year. But it was a toy compared to our TLB.

I cut my teeth on 50's and 60's tractors growing up, and traded for a number of them while in the business. Worked on them too. So I'm no stranger to the older stuff (though it has been a while).

Agreed, I'm still not convinced I wouldn't be better served with a backhoe, rather than another tractor.

I couldn't justify buying the next size larger tractor for what I will do with it: occasional dragging of brush, a motorized wheelbarrow for carrying rocks, dirt, and mulch. Also pulling a trailer around the place once in a while. General light duty maintenance. Plus, my shed is not very big and only has a 8 x 7 ft door.

Back in 2000 I got my son started helping maintain our first property with the little 49 Farmall Cub. It freed the wife and I up to build the cabin.

Getting them started young.



Old tractors at work. Working with my SIL.

My JD 410E is a beast of a machine, but I still do not feel very comfortable moving it around, especially in close quarters in the barn.

John please don't think I'm suggesting you bought the wrong size tractor, as that is absolutely not so. We all have different needs, and evaluate our purchases based on those needs. I know you will love that tractor, and find all sorts of work for it to do....if you haven't already!

I would use sand, but leave enough space to cover top and have a place for tools, chain, etc. You will always need a chain or strap.

This is VERY VERY GOOD info. Tractors will lift more than they can carry or become unstable if used outside or right at their limits. GO SLOW.

I could only fit 250 pounds of sand bags into my weight box, so with sand, box itself, and chain (in box), I have about 405 pounds hanging off the back. That will have to do for now. It seems more stable on slopes. I hauled a couple of bucket loads of bricks to my new pond and dumped them in what will be about 3 FOW. The hitch came in handy too for pulling my trailer around.

Snrub, you have more experience with tractors than anyone else I have met. I appreciate your insight. Your posts are always well thought out.

Still looking around, have decided on 45 hp minimum, with a base, non-additional weight of at least 4000 lbs. Also considering keeping the two tractors we already have, and adding a skid steer with bucket.

His problems were entirely caused by the baler twine taking out the seals. Otherwise I don't think there would have ever been an issue. It was not the tractors fault at all. The tractor overall has been a good one.

I think you bought the perfect size for your acreage and ponds John. That is the size I had with my JD2520 and it was a great little tractor. I had it several years and did a lot of work around my current ponds. Two reasons I traded up in size. One was I thought the larger tires and heavier tractor might be a little easier on my bad back. Not bounce around quite as bad. The other was I just had a hankering for something a little bigger. Bigger isn't better if you don't need it. Smaller gets around in tight places better.

That may be enough. It depends entirely what you are going to be doing with it. For 90% of what you will be doing that probably will be more than adequate. For just tooling aroud with a little fire wood or doing yard maintenence you don't need any rear weight.

But if you are going to be doing some prolonged serious digging, to complete a dirt project for example, having adequate rear weight will make the tractor work better, last longer, and be safer.

When you first start to do any heavy digging with it, as you lift the load and go into reverse, just pay attention to how the tractor acts. If it seems a little goosey on the back it indicates you could use some more weight. It is telling you if you go to raising the bucket to full height it is not going to be as stable or safe as it could be, so be much more careful. You will get a feel for it. If you dig a full bucket of dirt, go into reverse, and the back tires seem like they want to come off the ground or do come off the ground, you don't have enough rear weight. Either take smaller buckets full or get some more weight.

I did not mean to make a huge deal about the front ends. They are not weak and are made to be used. But just as using a tool properly will make a tool last longer, using it improperly may shorten its life. If the tractor manual recomends added rear weight when doing loader work, if a person wants his tractor to be safe and last a long time usually the manual offers good advice. Now if all you have in the bucket is a few flower pots, of course you do not need to worry about having the weight box on. But if you have a ten ton load of gravel delivered and you are going to be scooping it all up, carrying it around, and doing some heavy work with the loader, by all means have the weight box or some other rear weight (like a blade) on. The tractor and loader will work better, work safer, and likely last longer because both axles are sharing the load properly.

Tbar I owned a Farmall Cub once upon a time. While in high school I was taking a post high three hour class "Farm Power and Machinery". I bought the Cub and implements as a project and attempt to make a few bucks. I did some maintenence on it and mostly gave it a paint job and new decals. Played with it for about 6 months. It had a plow, sicle mower with it. One bottom plow. Plowed my teachers garden with it.

Sold it and about broke even after costs incurred. But I had a lot of fun doing it and playing with the little 10 hp 4 cylinder tractor. Someone could actually grab the drawbar and try to stop it and listen to the governer open up. They were kind of gutless wonders, but still quite the little tractor for their day.

Can't remember the year, but it was right around 49 to maybe a 51. Looked just like yours.

I'm all over the place with buying another tractor. Woke up this morning and was leaning towards just keeping what we have, then I read snrub's last few posts and they only served to reinforce that feeling. I think I'm getting "want", confused with "need".

What do I need a FEL for? With the tractors and implements we already have, we're set pretty well. We do have a long driveway, and we keep number 2 and number 5 stone stockpiled for maintenance on it. Right now that involves shoveling 600 pounds or so into the Kawasaki mule, and shoveling it back out into the holes. The yard box and the 801 takes care of grading.

It would be nice to just scoop some into the bucket, drive to the spot and dump it, then back drag it smooth. But does that justify another, substantial purchase? I honestly can't think of another use for the loader. The mule is just the ticket for yard chores, as well as hauling saws and tools to cut wood, and the trailer hooked to the 801 will haul way more wood at one time than a bucket ever thought about.

I'm sure I would come up with more uses for it, but that's kinda' like stopping at the yard sale you just drove by, just to browse....if you aren't looking for a particular whatever, do you really need to buy something else just because it's there?

LOL.

Tony, I have come to the conclusion that there are precious few things in life I "need". The vast majority comes down to want.

Questions I try to evaluate are first of all, can I afford it? Second, will it somehow improve my life and make it more enjoyable or detract from it? Is there something else that the money would be better spent on? (That is the really tough one).

Since my kids are grown other than a few essentials most everything of mine now boils down to wants. When I had a young family, those questions were harder to answer to, than since I have been retired.

Edit: as an alternative, how about a rear scoop for your 3pt hitch? They can be run in forward or reverse position to scoop up rock. scoops

Carry all's

Tipper

Flemming tipper

Easy Mover

Dirt scoops

KK dirt scoop

digging with the Ford

Ford and dirt scoop in action

Edit: some more

tractor attachments of Canada

I used a slip scoop for a lot of years. Gave it to a friend after adding a FEL to my tractor.

https://indianapolis.craigslist.org/grd/6023163937.html

I still use one of those scoops that Snrub refers to. It's perfect for what you mention Spark. I always hook it up to back into stuff. Dump the gravel in the hole, and then drop it down and flatten it by dragging over. No lifting and very little raking left to do. A lot cheaper than buying a new tractor Sparkie.

Yeah, we have a slip scoop with trip. It does a fair job.

Course, if I keep the Ford, that means more wrench turning....just replaced a power steering line this past weekend. A section of steel brake line, a flaring setup, and some judicious bending and bam, a $200 Ford part for less than $10.

Maybe I'm just getting lazy. I can shovel, and I can repair the tractors we have, I just don't want too.

That is the thing about the older stuff. If you are handy with a wrench and don't mind doing it, they can be economical. But if a person has to depend on $100 per hour shop rates and is limited on time and wants the tractor to go when needed, new starts looking more attractive.

On another note, I have seen where people were trying to dig a very small pond with a front end loader. If I was using a small tractor to move much dirt, I would have one of those scoops on the rear and a bucket on the front. Move twice the dirt every go-round. Load the rear scoop for weight on back, then load the loader bucket full.

My experience with older FEL's is that they are much better suited at moving dirt rather than digging. I have known folks dig a decent hole with the slip scoops, though.

X2 - I'll use my box blade at a high angle or a pond scoop to 'dig' - then use the loader to scoop the loose dirt.

Trying to dig with a standard FEL on a tractor is asking for trouble. They're not made for that.

Now a properly set up skid steer? Different story.

This is cool. Never seen one before as a bucket attachment for small tractors.

bucket rake

Edit: anybody starting to think I have too much time on my hands?

something similar but different Kind of boring video and guy is still learning to run the loader....... may want to fast forward a lot

Pirrana piranha blade

Need to bury some air lines???
loader trenching attachment

This what I want........er......."need". Yeah, that's it, I need it. Have wanted a grappel for a long time on the small tractor. Two things though. First, they get pricey. Second, they require aux hydraulics on the tractor so get even more pricey.
grappel bucket John the tractor in this video is the model I used to have and about the size of your tractor I believe. Important note: if you go to pushing brush with your loader or using a grappel like in the video, it is VERY easy for a limb to slip by and at best damage your grill or worst poke a hole in your radiator. Your grapple bucket loader tractor and your wife are two things you do not want to loan to your buddies or neighbor. They likely will come back with damage. Oh, and motorcycles too.

This video is for gift items (might want to slip this video into your wifes inbox around November 15). It is specific to Deere, but many things are available for other brands or gives ideas for them. tractor lovers gift ideas do a search for heavyhitch,com fot the brand he talks about. Bob Lusk, another potential advertiser! Lots of pond owners have compact tractors!

Another suggestion is a tiller. They works great on that size tractor. You can use it for tilling or I used mine for digging. Much easier on the tractor to till and remove dirt than just digging with the bucket. You can dig your own topsoil and move it where you need it.

Forks are also a huge help. I use forks more than the bucket.

I bought mine from Titan nearly as cheap as the last set I built.

Very good ideas. I have both forks and a tiller and they work well.

You brought up a very good point that I forget to use. If you are wanting fine dirt, till it up first with the tiller before loading. I usually don't think of that, dig it up in big grassy clumps, THEN try to do something with it. Your way is much smarter! Dugh!

That is one reason I posted all these links. Some of this stuff a person may just not think about being available or about using your tractor for. I have found them entertaining if nothing else, so thouht I would share them.

The option of using skid steer attachments in place of the bucket does offer interesting possibilities.

I think more and more compact tractor loaders can be equipped with the skid steer type quick attach. Had I not already had several of the Deere type quick attach pin on implements, that might have been the way I would have went. You can get retrofit or on the loader when new skid steer quick attach from Deere.

I do have an aftermarket attachment that goes on the Deere quick attach that then takes the skid steer attachments. Of course that attachment in between sets the implements three or four more inches forward, so it is a compromise.

Digging in very hard dirt or clay is very hard on the loader and tractor. As long as the tractor only spends a small portion of its time doing that, it will probably hold up. But we have worn out and broken up no less than two farm loaders loading lots of lime and chicken/turkey litter before finally getting a commercial articulated loader.

What can really help a small tractor loader out is having something on the back that can loosen the dirt. A box blade with teeth that can be lowered can make a loader a lot more productive when in hard ground as well as save a lot of wear and tear on the loader. But any type of rear implement that is built stout enough to handle loosening hard dirt would work. Loosen it up, then get it with the loader. Same idea as having a ripper on the back of a dozer. I wish my dozer had a ripper.

I got my Great Bend loader with the skid steer hook up. If I ever get a skid steer, I can use my forks and toothless bucket on it.

I took the 250 pounds of sandbags out of the Titan ballast box for now. It's handy for carrying tools or pulling a trailer without the additional weight. With my chain and a few tools, a little over 150 pounds. If I do some heavy scooping with the loader, I can easily put the sandbags back in.

Snrub: I saw the front bucket hoe video. For putting in an air line to my ponds, couldn't I just use a single bottom plow or a subsoiler to open a trench? It never freezes more than a few inches deep here.

That is right John, you only need the weight when you want to do some heavy work.

Sure, you can open the trench any way you want. In fact with that loader you have it will do it fairly well if you will pick a time after a rain when the dirt is not too hard. Just make you a line some how so you know where to start each cut. Line the bucket with the cutting edge along the line with the bucket bottom at a 45 degree angle. Put the bucket on the line and lift the front tires off the ground the depth you want the trench. Gently pull forward till the front wheels touch the ground. Roll your bucket back pulling forward just as the cutting edge reaches ground level and push the dirt away from the trench a little ways. I have done shallow trenches this way often. On a non hydrostat tractor it is hard on the clutch. But with the hydrostat just set the throttle about 2/3 and ease into each cut gently. With a little practice you will be cutting shallow trenches in no time. You advance down the line by the width of the bucket each cycle.

Fill the trench back in by pushing the soil back from the opposite side, then final smoothing by back dragging with the bucket almost flat in both directions.

You can make a trench in harder ground with a little different technique but it is a little harder on the loader. Best to wait till the soil is somewhat soft. Just depends on how long the trench is and how big of hurry you are in.

Pasture harrow.

Here is another tractor attachment that is really handy around ground work, ponds, pastures, yards and even drive ways. It will not do much to a hard driveway, but spreading new gravel or gravel that has been loosened it will smooth it out smooth as a baby's butt. Good for shallow working newly seeded areas, even if there is existing grass and the seed is a topdress.

I have two of these pasture harrows. The 8' pull type one I made a carrier on my box blade so it will lift with the three point. Will edit this thread and add the picture when I find it.

The second one I bought last summer at the farm show and have not used it yet. It is for your size tractor and can't remember if it is 5' or 6'. But it is a 3pt model for my 3038E. The 3pt hitch models are so much handier than the drag types.

I could not find a good video of one in operation other than a mfg advertising it and I did not want to get the post pulled for advertising. So I will just say search for "ABI chain harrow" on youtube and it will come up. I'm not promoting this particular brand (there are lots of brands of about the same harrow - Farm stores sell them), but the video shows it in operation. You can do lots of finish operations with them and they are not terribly expensive to buy.

My 8' chain harrow with home made lift on box blade

I have a smaller drag version, but really could have done without it.

FWIW something I have now on the rear of my little tractor is a 12V power connector to allow easy hookup for powering 12V attachments like sprayers, spreaders, etc. I consider it a big plus for maintaining a small property like mine.

I have a dump trailer, so I wired a trailer electric hookup on my tractor but just wired up the hot and ground. Put a breaker in the hot line.

LOL.....I think it was a blazing 12hp thank you very much. I broke a piston ring on it and took the opportunity to rebuild the whole tractor while the engine was at the machine shop. Took EVERYTHING apart to clean, reseal, new bearings and paint. Don't worry....there is a chain hoist holding it up....not just the blocks. Haven't run it in 5-6 years. Need to put a carb kit and battery on it and fire it up.

Gave a chance for that young man standing near it to appreciate the mechanics of a tractor. He will remember that forever.

Farmall Cub

I gained my early interest of mechanics by hanging out at a local garage from the time I was old enough to go with my dad on winter days (when not in school) and listen to the men and old men stand around a huge old coal stove and "shoot the breeze", up through my teenage years. I learned a lot of stuff there, a fair amount I knew better than to repeat to my mom.

For those with tractors that are unaware of the site, here is tractordata.com. I have caught a few mistakes, but for the most part accurate.

Tractordata.com

He learned mechanical skills from me helping on this and many other projects. Grown and married now he is a wrench turning fool that is under his or someone else's car every week.

Saving a little cutting...

Nice!

Just ordered one of these grapple forks. They are not real heavy duty units and there are others on the market that I think are a lot better constructed. But for the cost I thought it would work well for my JD3038E and be plenty heavy duty for it. It has hookups also for the larger loaders like on my JD5083E so I will be able to use it on it also, although I will have to be somewhat careful and use some judgement because I think it could be easily torn up on that size tractor. The smaller tractor is mostly where I want it anyway. I already have extra remote outlets on both tractors.

If I was wanting to use it heavily, I would have went up in quality. But for my intended use I think it will be fine. Lot better than my hands and back.

grapple for JD tractor loader

I've wanted one for years for my play tractor. Have a rock bucket with grapple for one of our bigger loaders, and have moved a lot of brush with it.

I'm jelous. I have wanted one for a while.

We have lots of dead trees that fall that I deal with regularly.

Every time I have looked at various ones at farm shows they were always around 2200 to 2500 or more. I just thought that was too much for the amoumt I would use it. Now if it were on a skid steer and used a lot, different story. But for personal occasional use........ Then when looking at attachments when JohnF started this thread, ran across this one and it seemed reasonable enough for my use. I'll blame it on him for me spending the money. I suspect it will say made in China when it gets delivered, but I was not going to spend 2500 for one.

Have you looked at flail mowers? Maybe you should get one for semi rough areas. Another idea. LOL

Did you see this one

http://www.palletforks.com/3-point-hitch...CFQqoaQod8x8OPQ

I didn't realize something like this was out there. Might come in handy for those trimming around a pond. I use an old sickle bar mower, but of course that don't follow the uneven contour of a pond so well. Looks like this thing coasts along the contour. I wonder if it would have a long enough reach.....

Fish, are you using a pitman arm type of sickle bar, or a belt drive? The belt drive models will allow you to lay the cutter bar down the backside of the dam while the tractor remains level across the top.

I'm using a pitman. I like to use what I already have. I can angle it to some degree with the lift arms, coupled by the slight slope of the ground by the pond. I didn't know the belt drive ones you have control of an angle.

Yeah, belt drives will lay the cutter bar down at a pretty severe angle.

Let er' grow!

Egads man! there's natural, and then there's a chigger and tick infested, overgrown with briars, multiflora, and sumac abomination of an eyesore, wilderness.

Cut, chop, mow, dig, trim, and spray....ahhh! That looks nice!

Beauty is clearly in the eye of the beholder... but it does take work up front.

Why didn't you ask for help a little sooner? I'll load the tractor and bushhog, along with the boom sprayer, and head north! I should be there in a couple hours, just try and hold out till I get there!!!


Nah, it does look pretty. I wouldn't be able to sleep knowing it looked like that, and would probably burn through all my accumulated leave time at work until it didn't look like that, but that's why we all have our own ponds. It's obvious that you spent a lot of time planning and implementing, well done!

I would say about 2/3 of the area is natural RAH. Sure isn't as nice as yours!

You guys were talking earlier about change, updating to new ways of thinking, avoiding future development, etc. There is something that we came across on a vacation years ago that I think is a bit pertinent to all of that.

We take vacations that are a bit different than what most think as "usual". I like the back roads and the small towns, and talking with the locals when we can. We were up in the northern US somewhere, I can't remember exactly. Possible the upper Dakotas, or such. Up comes a museum sign, we pull in and check it out. Nice place, very low key. It was a local history museum of the area, which dealt mostly of surviving and farming equipment was a big part of that. A little bit of machinery to show folks were displayed here and there. I start talking to the lady at the counter, asking her questions of this and that, things about what's in the show room and why did they do it this/that way. She refers me to some old guys out in the parking lot who are eying over my van, and trailer, which is another short story in itself.

I go out and start talking with the guys and they have us go into this monstrous building. Inside is filled with tractors and equipment of all kinds. Hundreds of them,... small, big, equipment, combines, etc. They don't open this up for the general public because it is so full that you have to crawl over, and under, to see all of it. It all runs, and once a year they pull it all out to run them. There was one guy that was in charge of how it all fits! With out him they would be lost. Anyway, we come up to this tractor that has the typical steering wheel for it's time period, but there is something more to it. There was a set of ropes and such, attached to it in a peculiar way. Curious, I asked what the deal was with it. He explained that when the steering wheel came out, the old guys had a hard time with it, couldn't cope with it I guess. So they attached a set of reigns to it and fashioned it in a way so it would drive like a team of horses!! ... Change is hard, and sometimes takes a long time to happen.

Those pictures are great Rah, My eyes never tire of seeing them. I have tried a few wild planting myself, and I know they just don't happen. A lot of work there.

My wife was a horticulture major, and I am in the agricultural field. We are also fortunate to have had many knowledgeable folks to teach us, like the folks here on this forum. My first pond stocking was a lot less than ideal (too many fish). A winter fish kill has things back on track. If my neighbor was not exaggerating too much, he saw a lunker LMB cruse past when he was fishing in that pond last week. He said it ignored his attempts to catch it. He did catch some smaller ones and some keeper BG. I need to get some update pictures of the new pond. It is coming along pretty good. I need some picture of the bald cypress knees in this older pond too. They are pretty cool. Spring is in the air here in central Indiana. I just hope the law of averages does not catch up with us and blast the plants, frogs, etc. The Sandhill cranes think ice is out.

Pic of artesian pond a couple months ago (I think)

That's awesome. Nice work!

The rusty streak in the middle is where the iron-laden water comes in through a hole I drilled through the rock.

I remember reading about the rock drilling. Very creative.

It was my first attempt at drilling rock, so I was not sure how it would go. Finding a rock with a natural groove in it was a real plus. It looks like water has been flowing over it for thousands of years. Can't wait to get all the plants growing nice. I will need to wait till I get he fen built first. I have 300 years of plans...

Sounds familiar.

With a dozer and a backhoe, I should now be able to put a dent in some projects.

Yes I did. DR makes one about like that only at a higher price. I'm guessing this is the Chinese knock off of a DR.

I have toyed with the idea of making a bracket and arm on the front of my loader and just suspend a cheap lawn mower by chains. Use a hyd cylinder to adjust the angle to the bank. I've got way more ideas than I have energy to implement.

I have been looking at flail mowers for maintaining the edges of the property. Anyone have experience with them?

I've never owned a flail, but I have used one a few times. Right now, where I'm at with our property, a flail would be my choice.

My wife and I went to buy a new tractor yesterday. We decided upon the LS brand, model XR4145. A 45 hp, 4000 lb unit, big enough to do what I needed it to do, the last tractor we should ever need. It's been a long, hard fought struggle with myself to reach this point.

We arrive at the dealership where we're met by the owner. I've known this guy for many years, we both sold and serviced equipment, attended the same update schools, helped each other when we could. His wife is my second cousin. In short, I'm comfortable with him.

We talk for a moment, and I tell him what we're there for. He hands me a set of keys, and off I go for a test drive. I climb on and fire it up, mostly concerned with the operation of the loader. In a few moments he shows up, I shut it down and we start talking. After a few minutes discussion of my intended usage, he hints at the idea that this might not be the tractor I really need. No surprise here, upselling is the domain of a good salesman, right?

Except he's not trying to move me up into another machine, he wants to move me down into a smaller, less expensive tractor. Turns out, he believes the 4145 is overkill for what I need. Now when it comes to tractors, I'm a firm believer on weight first, horsepower second. And more of both is better. He doesn't share that philosophy, and when we measure the distance between the rear wheels, I have to agree. If we go with this unit, we're buying new implements...he is happy to sell me those, but I'm not taken with the idea.

So, he recommends moving down to the next smaller, 3100 series. I don't like that, as I'm giving up almost 1000 lbs and 5 hp. He claims, much as snrub has, that the 4WD will level the playing field compared to my 801. But dropping down also gets me that smaller front axle, and that makes me nervous. So I climb up on the smaller tractor and head to his mulch piles. And I got it dirty. It performs well, but I'm still cautious.

He sees my hesitation, and offers to bring the tractor out to my place, and let me keep it for a week just to make sure it will do what I want. Very kind on his part, but I wouldn't feel right about that, so I decline.

In the end, we left without a new tractor. But, we are going back on Monday to take another look. And we did start the paperwork. Still not convinced, but we'll see.

Sparky, it sure sounds like you have your mind made up on getting the larger tractor and that is fine if that is your hearts desire. Butt!! I would not get any tractor without 4 wheel drive. Reminds me of my sons story where his buddy's dad and I bought a tractor around the same time. Mine is 4 wheel drive and his is not. His son told my son, my dad is stuck all the time and I have to get him out. I know my son told him, my dad gets stuck sometime too, but not all the time.

Tracy, I'm not sure of anything. I keep going back and forth. Both tractors are 4WD however.

I have pretty much cleared the parts I am going to clear and am in maintenance mode now. That's where the flail comes in. All I will need to cut is tall grass, weeds, and light, tender sprouts. I used the DR walk behind brush mower last summer to maintain, but it takes a long time at 26 inch cut, and beats me up a little. Since then, I have cleared maybe 1/8 acre more.

Same here, John. The horrendous stuff is mostly done, so I would choose a flail.

About 8 years ago I had intended on buying a new 4wd Kubota, but after realizing how absurd the additional cost of 4wd is compared to 2wd I opted to purchase a 45hp 2wd model, as opposed to paying the same price for a 25hp 4wd, or as opposed to paying an additional 6 or 7k for a 45hp 4wd.

I feel that tractor manufacturers are overcharging for 4wd due to their popularity, much like the auto makers do with pickup trucks. Four wheel drive used to be a relatively inexpensive option for a pickup, until a multitude of Southerners were summoned by the Redneck mating call of off-road tires humming on the asphalt.

Since my purchase, I have absolutely no regrets. Sure, there are rare occasions when I could probably use a 4wd. On those rare occasions I'm usually able to improvise by way of using counter weight, engaging the differential lock, changing angle of attack, or simply saying, “screw it” and proceed to move elsewhere and tear up something else. For the most part (97.25% of the time) I don't need 4wd. I certainly don't need it for mowing, road maintenance, and most FEL work. If I were backing out of a sand pit with a full bucket and loading dump trucks on a regular basis a 4wd would certainly come in handy.

A 2wd tractor also provides for a tighter, quicker turning radius without using the turning brake, less wear and tear on the turf when turning, fewer expensive moving parts, less maintenance, and whole lot less overconfidence when approaching a task you should probably avoid.............. I've yet to stick my 2wd. Not saying that I never will. I just tend to avoid those scenarios. Same goes for my 2wd pickup.

I'm not knocking 4wd tractors or pickups, as I think they're excellent machines to have. Just depends on a person's needs, or their desire to spend extra for an option they may rarely need. For me, monetarily, the ends don't justify the means............ I took the money I saved on my tractor purchase and spent it on implements, recreational activities, a new guitar, and a couple of girlfriends.

Good luck on whatever you decide spark. I think you would be happy with either one.

My experience is I went with a 26 hp tractor and was very happy with it. But mostly because I wanted it rather than need, I traded up to a 38hp (and I thought the dealer did me well on my trade since it was only 3 yrs old and he had it sold almost immediately). So for what it is worth sparky, if you can swing it, get what you really want. Unless your acreage is confined to small places where the smaller tractor will get about better, I can't see you ever being unhappy (other than the original cost) ever going with the larger one. Even the larger one is likely still going to be as manuverable or more than what you have been used to.

My wife always encourages me to get what I want. Because invariably when I do I am satisfied, and when I compromise there is always that little wish I did it different.

Edit: this is assuming they are both hydrostats. If the bigger one is gear, for utility work, I would definitely go with the hydrostat. Now if a person is doing heavy tillage and constant draft pulling, different story. But for homeowner use, nothing beats the utility of a 4wd hydrostat. That is not saying a gear 2wd will not work, because it will. But one is like driving a luxury car compared to driving a low end compact car. They both will get you there. It just all depends on how much you want to enjoy the ride.

I went to the top HP for category 1 equipment. That keeps implement costs lower and less wear and tear on the tractor due to insufficient HP. It also keeps the tractor smaller for getting around in tight spots. I have a gear tractor, but we also use it for field work (vegetables). Bought it new 27 years ago and its the only tractor we owned until my brother gave me a backhoe last year.

RAH, if you're happy with that 1070, then maybe that narrows it down for me. I looked up the specs on the Deere, and they are very close to the 3100 series. The 4100 is a lot bigger, but maybe I don't need that much tractor. They are both hydros.

Gully, I hear what you're saying. I bought a new 4wd pickup in the fall of 2015, and haven't had it in 4wd, on the street, one time. And only a handful of times off road. Most of the utility tractors are actually 4 wheel assist, not full-time 4WD. I don't intend to use front wheel assist every time I climb on, just when needed. And having 4 wheels pull does give you the ability to brake all four wheels also.

I have had my 4WD pickup six years now. I have had it in 4WD maybe eight or nine times so far and probably at least four of those times I would have had to call a tow if not for 4WD. They would have had to come a good distance to get me too. The first time I used 4WD in it was to pull my son out of a low place in a parking lot in a freak 18" snowstorm in the late winter of '11. He was facing into a light post and couldn't back up in his 2WD pickup. I didn't even spin, and he was amazed. He sold it and bought an older 4WD dually diesel a couple years later. My new (to me) tractor is 4WD, and I didn't consider 2WD.

Even with the 4WD and diff lock on my tractor, I've had a couple of times I was in trouble. Both times I had the FEL on the tractor and used it to push/pull me out enough with the bucket to get traction. My advice, if your place is small and you only want to maintain one tractor, make sure it has a FEL.

+1 on that Bill. The bucket can be a lifesaver

It's here. Not really sure about it yet, I need to get some seat time and see what I think before passing judgement. It's such a far cry from what I'm used to, I'm unsure whether it's my inexperience, or the machine itself. My initial assessment from a whopping 20 minutes of operation is that the 60 year old 801 it's supposed to replace, would absolutely eat it's lunch. If it were my first tractor I would be thrilled, and probably outside wrapping it in a blanket. But it isn't my first tractor.

It runs good, and operates like a dream. Very easy and intuitive. It's light....way light compared to what I'm used to. The notion that 4WD makes up for light weight, appears ludicrous at this time. But, that may be my unfamiliarity talking again. I love the simplicity of operation that the hydro offers, with it's twin pedal setup, but I'm expecting more grunt from the transmission. The old Ford, and the even older Allis, will continue to pull right up until they 1) Lose traction, 2)stall the engine, 3) Twist something expensive in two. The LS just stops...no wheel slip, no stall, no breakage, (okay I like that part), nothing, Just "That's all I've got, not doing any more". That's weird. Maybe normal for hydros, maybe I need to max the rpm out, I just don't know. I do know if it were a hydro mower that came into my old shop and acted like that, I would be checking for a slipping belt, or a worn hydraulic pump/motor. We'll see.

Sweet looking machine Sparkie! What model did you go with? My JD is hydro and will push till it can't. I would not like the "just stops" when the job gets a little hard thing either. I think I would be on the phone to the dealer to ask if that's the way it's supposed to operate. Maybe a faulty or incorrectly set torque/pressure sensor kicking you out?

A hydrostat transmission is best for utility jobs where changing speeds and reversing are the most important feature. They are far less efficient than a gear transmission for outright pull or fuel efficiency. For a steady, long term drawbar pull like plowing out in a field, they are not a particularly good choice. Quite a bit of horsepower is wasted.

But once you get used to it and for what you likely will use that tractor for, you will love it.

I'm not sure what the mechanism for protection is on the smaller hydrostats. On high horsepower ones like on a combine they can either have a high pressure bypass or they can have a mechanism to destroke the pump at stall pressure. But those are applications where the engine is supplying lots of horsepower elsewhere and the hydrostat is not designed to continuously handle full engine power. On these small ones, they may just be made robust enough to handle full engine power and not really have any over pressure relief. If you can kill the engine, it likely does not. If it stalls out while engine is at full rpm, it likely does.

If you expect it to do everything your significantly larger tractor will do in all applications, I think you will be disappointed. But used as the size tractor it is for utility jobs, I think you will love it.

As far as engine rpm, doing utility stuff and most loading jobs, I run about 2/3 throttle. If you need full power at the wheels, obviously you need to be running full throttle. About the only time I run full throttle is when I am mowing or tilling where the pto needs to be up to speed for the attachment to run properly.

My smaller LS (XJ2025H) doesn't stop. It spins the wheels. Maybe my ground is softer, or slicker. I haven't tried that on a driveway.

Snrub, you said something that reflects an ever growing suspicion on my part. "But used as the size tractor it is on utility jobs"....that's my worry.

This situation reminds me of an incident years ago, when I was at the Deere dealership. A large part of our customer base were farmers. They used equipment everyday, and were well versed in what one might reasonably expect out of a machine. This one family had owned Deere products for decades, including their lawn equipment. Deere had just introduced the replacement series for their bulletproof,but long in the tooth, 400 series garden tractors. These folks bought the first one that rolled into our showroom.

I got a call the same afternoon. They weren't happy, claiming the new tractor was a shell of its former lineage. After a few trips out to the farm, adjusting everything under the sun, I had to agree. It finally culminated in a three way phone call between myself, the customer, and Deere. And I listened while the Deere rep attempted to quantify the new tractor's shortcomings by saying that it was really more of a yuppie tractor. His exact words.

Dead silence. When my customer did finally speak, he left no doubt as to his thoughts on Deere's decision to discard the old platform.

I'm wondering if that's where I am with this new one. I don't need high and low beam headlights, taillights,turn signals,7-pin trailer hookup, suspension seat, cruise control, tilt wheel, or parking brake alarm. All of which this has new tractor has. What I do need is a tractor that will run into a stone pile and come out with a full bucket. No horse stalls to clean out here.

I need a tractor that will hook onto a heavy duty, 5' bushhog, and take it uphill into the woods to mow brush and saplings. I need it to pull a 60" box blade full of stone. Those are the three hardest chores I need a tractor to accomplish, and I'm talking a total of less than 30 hours a year for that. The rest of the time it an be a wheelbarrow, with a chainsaw or two in the bucket.

When I get home tonight, I'm taking it down to the pond's where a conveniently large, mature Beech lives. I know that tractor won't even shake it, everyone reading this knows it won't shake it, but I need the tractor to NOT know it can't budge that tree.

I had no idea tractors came with all those unnecessary options. A tractor is suppose to work not be a Friday night cruiser. I hope you get it figured out, I'm sure that thing cost a pretty penny.

When I bought mine, I bought it for the sole purpose of plowing and shredding. I had a 5 acre garden that I used to save endangered open pollinated crops. I also grew family heirlooms that people sent to me to continue on and pass on to others. I'm disabled now and no longer able to do those things, so my tractor doesn't get much use, but I have thought of making it pretty for parades and stuff

I don't need turn signals and such either. Cruise control might be useful if you were mowing in long lines, but it might be a danger if one fell asleep and ran into the road, pond, etc, or fell off. Otherwise hydros will quickly stop when foot is off the pedals.

I had a Kubota 3010 and 3830. Both HST models. Both needed to run about 2100-2300 RPM when doing anything other than driving. PTO was about 2650RPM. You can fill the bucket in medium range, but you have to feather the HST pedal. Low range is much better, but slower. The 3010 would spin all 4 tires in medium range running the loader, but the 3830 would only do it in low range @ about 2500 rpm.

It will take a little seat time to figure out the way your's will work.

The newer version of what I have.

https://indianapolis.craigslist.org/grd/6043881315.html

The LS wasn't able to uproot that 30" diameter Beech, but it made a fine showing for an unweighted machine. Next step, rimguard.

Aww..you should have bought a Cat D-11H.

Tried. Our accountant broke out in a cold sweat at the thought of trying to legitimize it as necessary for our maple syrup farming operation.

Sorry Bill, almost forgot...it's an xg3140

As you get a little further into the bonding process, I would suggest some gentle buffing between the headlights with a patch of lambs wool, accompanied by soft, barely audible mumblings of affection and encouragement, and perhaps a gallon or two of the very best impeller pressed, nonGMO biodiesel to be quaffed after a particularly productive, trouble free afternoon together.

+1 but remember that little guy is Korean and a long way from home... The "mumblings of affection" should be uttered in Korean and that "biodiesel" should be the juice pressed from the finest Kimchi (filtered of course!) to really make that guy perk up!

Sprkplug your having buyers remorse, but way too early.

My prediction is a year from now you will wonder why you waited so long to get it. That is if it is a good tractor, which I suspect it is.

Give it some time. You are the one that was talking about accepting new technology instead of rejecting it.

I am a big fan of new technology, this is true. However I still reach for a notepad and pen when I need to jot down a note or two.....the message here being the latest and greatest should not become so enamored with itself, that it forgets what the primary reason for it's creation was in the first place. It is a tractor first and foremost, and the biggest reason to have it, for me anyway, is for it to do tractor-type stuff, adequately. The built in latte machine is a nice touch though, particularly on a chilly morning.

Yolk I'm glad you weighed in. As you know, I have spent several years now growing out my enhanced brim strain. I'm pleased to announce that they are coming along nicely, but their phenomenal growth hasn't come without a price. They are consuming feed at an astounding rate, and even after much research I have been unable to find a mechanical feeder capable of supplying pellets at the advanced rate and volume that their voracious appetite demands.

I've hit upon an idea whereby the enhanced brim will get the nourishment they need, AND allow me to use my new tractor in another, useful fashion. Check this out:

http://www.agrisupply.com/fertilizer-spreader/p/70271/

I think I can simply hook it up, back down into the water, and let er' rip. It has a capacity of 350 lbs, so that should last 4-5 days most of the time. I know what you're thinking, the enhanced brim might chew through the tires in their frenzy to attack the feed, but I'm willing to risk it.

I've enjoyed this thread, and have learned a lot. Since most everything in this area revolves cutting hay, bailing hay, or hauling hay, I see few if any smaller tractors.

We have a cabbed Kubota L5030, and most of the time it's relegated to grounds-keeping duties. This last week, I've been filling sink holes, and smoothing up our hay meadows for our hay guy. Much like my wife, when he's happy, I'm happy.

Gosh, Sparkie, what a strange coincidence. I was contemplating GSF specific uses for PTO driven implements at almost exactly the same time:
Should work great with enhanced bream, as well. Now if they just made a 3 point hitch for a trebuchet......

I've heard it said that inspiration can be found in the strangest of places, Yolk. Your most recent photo must surely qualify as inspirational in that regard, as I believe it has given me an idea whose time, I'm convinced, has finally arrived.

Recall if you will, the current, fashionable trend among fish feed producers to combine different size pellets in the same bag, and then charge a premium for the same thing we complained about as being indicative of poor service in the past. Marketing genius.

Okay, bear with me. We purchase the pto driven chipper/shredder, and we convince the folks at Optimal to greatly increase the size of their extruders. Something around the diameter of those foam pool noodles, aka the diameter of a fence post for city folks.

So they extrude the Optimal noodles, or Optoodles, (I initially went with Opoodles, but the mental imagery was quite ghastly), in lengths of 5-6 feet. They could package them in giant plastic wrappers, similar to a super-sized Slim Jim. Include one of those plastic whing dings like what's used to seal up a loaf of bread, and the rest becomes obvious.

Back the tractor equipped chipper up to the water's edge, rev er' up, and start feeding in the Optoodle. Every size from mere dust, to chunks the size of a quarter will be expelled out over the water at great velocity. When the fish get full, just spin the plastic wrapper and secure with the whing ding. Keep fresh for days.

What do you think? Shall we combine our resources and get in on the ground floor?

Nice looking tractor, Sprkplug, hope it works out well for you.

First thing I did to my new tractor was use a blow-dryer to heat and remove a couple of dozen warning stickers from it........... In hindsight, I wish that I had also removed the Kubota decals from the hood and FEL arms as well. Over a few years the decals have become faded and tattered, while the surrounding orange paint still looks good.

We spent a little quality time together this weekend. It's growing on me.

The only thing that I really dislike about my John Deere is that it is wrapped in plastic, ok; fiberglass, that cracks and breaks. Also the "door" that covers the fuse box has a piece of rubber that is supposed to hold the door/cover/gate closed. It no longer does.

The mechanical stuff all works great. It's just wrapped in crap.

There are a couple things I don't like on my JD X585.

It has three pedals; forward, reverse and brake. They are all on the same side. It is a real PITA if you have stopped on a slope like when dumping a load of stone from the FEL into the pond. Going down hill when you want to move is not an option so you have to move your foot very quickly from brake to reverse or take a bath.

The other thing is the PTO stops when you go in reverse which is a nuisance when mowing around trees and need to constantly be backing up.

Bill, I'm sure you know to raise up on the pto switch to engage the Rio option? I figured you were already doing that, but I have run across a few folks who didn't know.

It will let you use the pto in reverse when you pick it up, but I agree it's still a pain in the butt.

Thanks Tony,

Nope. I don't know about the "Rio" option but I will definitely try to figure it out now! Any hints?

Edit: Got it figured out. You're right. Still a PITA.

You don't have to hold the switch up the entire time you're backing up, once the tractor starts to move back you can release the switch and it will continue to reverse on its own

Touching the brake, or forward travel pedals will reset the system and make you start over, unfortunately. Sorry!

How many have disabled the seat interlock on their mowers or tractors? It's still in place on my current machines, but I have done it in the past. It's inconvenient to set brake, etc and get off just to throw a stick out of the way.

John all mine have been zip tied.

I put a switch on the seat safety on my LS xr4046. I turn it off when I use the forks or grapple, but make sure it is turned on when I am using anything on the 3pt. It was a pain every time you stand up to see the FEL and it shuts off, but is a must for safety when you pull a mower. I have had my LS for a couple years now. It has been a great piece of equipment.
John

I was working on my zero turn trying to diagnose a problem and had the seat switched bypassed. Ran it that way for a little while before hooking it back up. Later while mowing around the pond it got wanky on me and went in to the pond throwing me off the seat and rolling the mower deck over my foot. I am real glad I had reconnected that switch as it died before trimming my toenails.

Normally I am very intolerant of bs "safety switches" but the seat switch is one I won't be disconnecting again.

My tractor doesn't have one.

Sure did - Sometimes I stand while mowing.

I did leave the one working my zero turn mower.

My zero-turn did not come with a seat. It does have safeties on the handles.

I will bite my tongue when it comes to commenting on disconnecting safety switches. I've seen what can happen when things go wrong on the mower.

I leave all mine intact because there are employees that occasionally use my personal stuff. If one of them got hurt because I had bypassed a safety device it would be my butt in a sling.

But the seat one on my JD 3038E is sure a pain in the rear when I use the fork lift attachment. I tolerate it on all other operations ok, but with the fork lift the tines are in just the right position when I am picking up a pallet I have to raise up off the seat about 3 inches to see the end to the forks to get them to enter the pallet. Of course the engine dies instantly. That is one operation that makes me want to wire in a bypass switch so I can at least bypass it while doing that operation.

Got my new grapple in a while back and got it plumbed up to my tractor and loader. I saw Essup had a grapple on his loader bucket he had posted a long time ago and I have wanted one ever since. This is kind of a light built one but will serve my purposes just fine. It will fit my JD3038E (which it is more than heavy built enough) and has the lower set of quick tach pins so it will also fit my JD5083E tractor loader. I will have to be a little careful with it on the larger tractor but I have no problem doing that. The stuff on the farm that goes out and actually makes a living I have to be sure it will stand up to some abuse. Since I will be the only one using this, I tend to have a little better judgement about what something can take than some of my operators. As soon as it quits raining I have some tree trimming brush to move with it and will come back and edit this post and add some more pictures of it working.

You'd probably hate the gas cans I buy!

e-Bay PRE BAN gas cans

Local Home Depot had about a dozen of the pre 2 gallon jugs out on a sale pallet the month before they would be banned for selling them (maybe a couple years ago) for I think it was two bucks each. I bought all of them.

I didn't hear about a ban. Why were they banned? We still have metal gas cans we've had on the farm for ages. I hate plastic with a purple passion.

Nope, I've never visited anyone in the hospital whose toes were cut off by an emissions compliant gas can.

I can't say that about a disconnected seat switch on a lawnmower though.

The EPA over reach committee thought a vented can polluted too much by releasing fumes to the atmosphere when in use. (when not in use they would seal, provided you tightened or snapped on the vent). I have seen aftermarket spouts and vents for sale to make the new containers usable. I bought one because I had an expensive plastic can with a split cap.

The metal cans we used to have would develop rust inside after a few years, and the gas, if not filtered, would stop up the fuel filter or carb jets.

On the tractor seat interlock, the only time my new LS tractor will shut off if I rise up off the seat is when the PTO is engaged.

I have a mommy and don't need another one appointed by our nanny state. Sorry to be so direct, but without natural selection, we de-evolve. That is just the logical conclusion. Correct me if I have this wrong.

One of governments primary jobs is protecting us, the people. The problem is, they are not very good at their job.

Some safety devices are great, others are not. Its like mandated ethanol and DEF, the intention is good, the implementation, well....

I believe the primary job of the government should be to protect us from other people, not ourselves. People should not be protected from their own stupidity. We should have the right to be stupid as long as it does not hurt others.

Take the cap completely off and use a big funnel to put gas in your mower or whatever.

You don't have it wrong, per se, you just haven't thought it through. Many think the same as you however, and see the implementation of safety devices as excessive governmental infringement into their personal affairs. I see that, but in many, probably most cases actually, those safety devices were not just to protect you, but others as well.

When I was 10 years old, my mother's best friend from her school days had an 8 year old daughter who bas backed over by her Grandfather while he was mowing the yard. She survived, but lost one leg. He was absolutely devastated. If you had asked him way back then, what he thought of the future (decades later) implementation of the RIO system I have spoken of before, (Reverse Implement Operation), I'm sure he would have felt the same as you. But that safety switch wasn't about him, it was about protecting others. The government mandate requiring an additional, separate action before mowing in reverse isn't about protecting the operator, it's about protecting the innocent. Like you, I could care less if some dufus cuts his own leg off. It's the innocent who need protection from the dufus.

What happens if a kid, or grandkid, or spouse, or neighbor, is using the machine and the unthinkable happens? Would the speech about natural selection bring solace? You could always tell yourself that "I did my best to train/tell/advise them, it's their own fault for not listening and being stupid!" But I think I would have trouble sleeping after that, no matter how hard I tried to convince myself that unhooking that government mandated seat switch was within my rights, founding fathers, amending the constitution, et cetera, et cetera.

Boys, I worked on the stuff for years. Not just my own, but hundreds of pieces owned by other people. And you can damn well better believe that when a machine came into my shop with the seat switch jumped out and rendered ineffective, that I made sure I got a signature on the dotted line right beneath where it said "I acknowledge that a safety device(s) is inoperable, and I have instructed that it not be repaired" Probably still wouldn't have protected me, but it made me feel better.

Sorry to be so direct.

Manufacturers hate to be sued. Some manufacturers actually hire very intelligent people to sit around trying to think of ways their customers will misuse their product and to protect them when that happens. At the end of the day, many customers still come up with ways to either use the equipment for an unintended purpose or defeat the safety features designed in to protect them. If someone gets seriously hurt, there is most always a liability attorney waiting to sue the manufacturer on behalf of the injured party. Big settlement means cost increase to the other folks. I am just thankful that McDonald’s coffee now comes with a warning label stating coffee is hot.

Edit:

I toned this post down a good bit but hopefully the point comes across. Pretty much any injury that occurs because a safety feature was intentionally defeated hurts other people in one way or another.

X2

BTW, these new gas can rules will cause some people to put their gas in empty juice jugs or soap jugs just for the ease of pouring. Make something too hard to use and people will defeat it, and make things worse in the process. Hopefully, the weakened EPA will rescind the fuel container rules made in the past 7 years or so.

X3

In the name of safety our wonderful land of the free and home of the brave has turned into the land of the enslaved and the home of the sissy.

On the stupid gas can, by the way all mine are modified to actually work, there are a number of reason's why stupid "people" made this stupid law. First though, even the new gas can can't stop this nonsense.
https://stateimpact.npr.org/oklahoma/201...ut-of-business/

I guess we need another new regulation or safety device to stop yet another form of stupidity?

Now, onto the stupid gas can law we have. It is about spillage. I challenge ANYONE to use one of these stupid government cans that the government has forced us to use and NOT spill more gasoline then you did before the stupid new cans were put into affect.

https://lfb.org/how-government-wrecked-the-gas-can/

On the sad story about the poor kid and the mower, not my problem. To infringe on 350 million people because someone gets run over by a mower is poppycock. How many people are run over by mowers going forward? Where's the cool new regulation to stop that Darwin winning move?

We can safety police ourselves to death but things just keep happening. Shall we get rid of natural gas and propane grills/furnaces/space heaters? Check out the fascinating numbers on that miracle fuel. I can sit here and opine all day that if some poor child burns themselves at your grill we should all lose the right to grill our burgers. For some, there's just no end to enslaving you for their good intentions.

somebody told me the pain in the arse child-proof caps on prescription bottles can be avoided by telling the pharmacy you don't want them....anybody know if that's true?

True (at least where I live). My experience is you will get a cap manufactured with two sets of threads. One side child proof and the other straight threads. I believe the reason is elderly folks can't open their meds with the child proof caps but can child proof the meds if little ones are visiting.

Mark,
You can ask for non child proof prescription bottles.

Hey Sprkplug,
Why don't ZTR mowers have the reverse-blade interlock feature? Are they exempt?

I hope no one here has to make that trip to the hospital. I also hope that if they do, they find comfort in the fact that by disabling that horrific infringement upon their rights, a safety device on a lawnmower, that they showed their government that they will not stand for such meddling.

And no, it's not about principle. It's about protecting the innocent.

But most of all, I hope I can be man enough to offer my condolences, rather than an "I told you so".

Yes, commercial mowers are usually exempt. The overwhelming majority of lawnmower amputations are committed by a relative, mowing in reverse, on homeowner class machines. All it takes is a momentary lapse.

None of the ZTR mowers have the reverse to blade interlock, not even the cheaper ones at Lowes.

Yet.

Think about it...a rio switch requires a hand to operate. Where are your hands on a twin-stick, ZTR mower? With a steering wheel, you can remove one hand to activate the switch, while maintaining control with the other hand. But both hands are busy on a twin-stick.

But, it's coming. I am proud to say I was able to provide input on one such new device. I know they are a pain, but they do offer protection for the innocent from other individuals. I believe that is the purpose of such governmental intervention?

Full-on commercial mowers also do not have to comply with blade tip speeds. However, all ZTR's are not commercial units, not by a long shot.

Then the next mower I buy will be a commercial model.

I prefer commercial units for their durability. I can't see buying one just to escape a rio switch, especially since their immunity is likely coming to an end. From the info I have been exposed to, mowing in reverse may be deemed as unnecessary on zero-turns in the near future...no need to back up when you can spot-spin and travel forwards.

I love my Scag commercial mower, and would recommend the brand.

Interesting...When you spot spin you would have to be careful not to pull one lever back too much or you would reverse that wheel. I really think the rio switch is unworkable for ZTR mowers as a practical matter. Some of the rio switches on tractor style mowers had to be held in the whole time when reversing, but Cub Cadet has a new way. Turn the key to the center position, press the rio switch, and the pto will stay in while reversing until the key or PTO is either turned off or the key to another position.

I think I will get a commercial for my next mower due to the blade tip speed, better utilization of HP, and ability to cut heavier grass more cleanly. Might even be a diesel, since my present mowers seem to burn more gas than my F-150.

I bought a used tractor and just recently learned it has a RIO switch (Thanks Sparkie!). It was a real PITA not being able to mow in reverse until I learned of the RIO switch. Now, I think I will really like it. It makes you actually perform a task when you are going to mow in reverse which I think will make me more aware of what's behind me when I engage that function.

I know one manufacturer is exploring foot operated switch, and another is tinkering a switch on the handgrip/stick. I have my doubts that either will get much play. Spot spinning a zero turn takes a little practice, but once you get used to it you can do it without rubbing a bald spot. Commercial cutters are pros at it...they have to be.

I know the system you speak of on the Cub. Cub's parent company, MTD, introduced it a few years ago. I can speak of bitter experience of
the need to use resistor spark plugs in whatever engine is used on these units. They wont mow in reverse with non-resistor plugs, or at least they didn't when I worked for an entire week just to discover the fact. Got a nice, MTD jacket once I figured it out. Didn't help my ego much, though.

that's the whole point.

With the Cub, I engage the rio switch when I start mowing, and leave it on until I stop the PTO.
What does resistor plugs have to do with it? (it's a twin) Is the rio switch operated by RF signal?

Just a thought on tip speed....I would think higher tip speed is an asset for a commercial mower mowing a nice lawn to get a nice clean cut but, if you want to use the mower to occasionally mow some tall thick stuff, I would sacrifice the tip speed and go with higher shaft torque (slower tip speed). I don't want a mower pulling the motor down when the going gets tuff.

i am near elderly and hate those caps!


Will do...thanks Brian and Bill

ps: i also disable my seat belt buzzer, but wear my seatbelt 100% of the time....just dont want big brother reminding me to put it on in the alley before I get my newspaper out of the front yard every morning at 6:30AM.

I might get a fine cut flail mower for the compact tractor if I can find a good enough used one and only use the finish mowers for the yard. Using the finish mowers for the field edges and paths to and around the ponds make me have to mow them at least every week or they get too high and tough to get a good finish cut with one pass, then it becomes drudgery, and it's hard on the mowers to be nearly bogged down a bunch.

Seat belt buzzers: Wish I knew how to disable the one on my F150. Its a pain when driving in a field and have to get in and out to move something, or open and close a gate, etc.

That's what Cub, and the engine manufacturer wanted to know. Both alternated between blaming each other, and claiming that what I was describing was impossible, and I must have overlooked something else. I finally pulled an identical tractor off the showroom, and fabricated a wire harness to allow me to operate the engine of one tractor with the electronics of the other's chassis. The problem followed the engine, so that narrowed it down.

Turns out the non suppression plugs interfered with the ecm that controlled the reverse switching. They asked me to call when I figured it out, and when I told the tech what it was, there was dead silence followed by him exclaiming that "this one's going up on the wall!"

A few weeks later MTD issued a service bulletin advising the need to use resistor spark plugs. The jacket was nice, but not worth an entire week's worth of head scratching.

The manual I have calls for a RC12YC spark plug, not the regular C12YC. Mine's a 2015 model.

That's correct, R = resistor. The original design would run just fine on non resistor plugs, and mow all day long so long as you never tried to mow in reverse. I don't know if they modified the shielding on the module for later models, or stuck with advising owners only use resistor plugs.

I'm on my third Honda, self propelled, commercial lawn mower. The first two lasted 15 to 17 years each before things started falling off of them. Just change the oil, sharpen the blade and clean the filters. About $900 for the last one.

Got the new tractor back after having the rear tires filled with rim guard. I haven't weighed it, but using their figures it should've added around 1100 lbs. Time to put it through its paces.

Dose not the resistor plug just effect the length of the time the spark shoots? A non resistor plug will blow all the spark all at once but the resistor plug will hold it back until it is all released at once in a dense shot. As it heats up the resistance gos away do to the heat in the plug. Resistor plugs help with cold starts on choke with a dense air fuel mix.

Beats me. Resistor plugs came into being for radio noise suppression, so electronic interference doesn't seem that far of a stretch. I can verify that the mower would not mow in reverse with non-resistor resistor plugs.

That will sure add to the stability and performance.

LOL......Well put.

Or at least it would be, except the implementation of seat switches on riding mowers was intended to protect others...not the dufus in the seat.

That's what I'm thinking also. Hopefully, will be dry enough this weekend to play, I mean work, with it.

I think you must be clairvoyant to know that?

Actually, I used the Accuweather app on my phone? Looks dry right now..

Referring to the purpose of the safety shut off as "protecting others".

"The purpose of these switches it to prevent personal injury while operating a lawn mower tractor."

http://www.doityourself.com/stry/lawn-tractor-safety-switch-basics

I have no problem with manufacturers installing the switches or with operators bypassing them if they interfere with practical operation for their use.

I know what you meant, just couldn't resist.

"The purpose of these switches is to prevent personal injury". Agreed. But personal injury to whom? If you read the article in the link you posted, it goes on to mention bystanders as needing protection. That's my point, the innocent need the protection.

I wouldn't have as much problem with operators unhooking safety devices either, provided they were prevented from suing the manufacturer when an accident occurred that was directly related to having the switch unhooked. In addition, I want to see the manufacturer able to sue the owner for improper use, and possible loss of revenue due to biased media publicity.

Also, if an innocent bystander was injured, then criminal charges should be brought against the operator.

You do know that bystanders can already sue machine operator's and prosecutor's can already press criminal charges... right? If it happens or not is another story.

Your wanting a manufacturer to be able to sue an owner for "improper use" is amazing. There is no damage to a manufacturer for improper use. If this was actually possible, and extrapolated across all industries, we'd have people sued for using hammers incorrectly.

Your want for regulations, for your causes, on all of us so that you can stop a possible accident seems to know no bounds except those as deemed by your opinion as "going to far".

Again, if saving the "innocent" is what matters to you then you have a lot of regulations to get passed. Using that thinking would allow for no one to even pour their own gas, ride a motorcycle with a passenger on the back, have a passenger in a car, use propane in your home, own a firearm, own a pond without a giant fence... the list goes on. There will be no end to regulation because we will always have to consider the "what if".

The above paragraph illustrates why the federal government is not allowed to make such regulations and is not enumerated these powers in Article 1 Section 8 of the US Constitution. States have a check on them and can make these laws. If a state becomes a giant nanny then a person can move to another State that they deem less intrusive. This competition for freedom is what the Founding Father's sought.

None of this matters though. I'm having a polite argument with someone who does not value the Constitution therefore we have nothing in common.

Personally, I would like to see us go back to the regulatory environment of the early 1970s. We had enough regulations then. In the meantime I will bypass any so called safety switch as I see fit, but if others might use the equipment I will not.

As an example of unneeded regulation: Look at any of the new fuel containers. I got one on sale a few weeks ago, and it is unusable as it is due to the EPA regulations promulgated since 2009.

A friend commented to me that we have a legal system, not a justice system. I too find the new gas cans frustrating. The real problem is having reasonable regulation. We just seem to go from one extreme to the other as the pendulum swings which is how I explain our current change in DC.

So if you bypass the reverse switch, and seat switch, and clutch interlock switch, do you then have to spend time hooking them all back up when your grandson gets on the mower?

As pond owners, we teach, or should teach, our kids to swim. We do that to enable them to take care of themselves, and be responsible for their own safety. But does this eliminate the need for a rescue flotation device on the dock, or close at hand?

My son and I are going to look at a 1961 military pickup truck tomorrow. We do not plan to retrofit it with safety switches.

I noticed yesterday that the new 2017 MTD ZTR mowers have the same reversing switch on them as the Cub Cadet lawn tractors. You turn the key to the middle (yellow) position, press a button for two seconds, and are good to reverse. Better than holding in a button like with the 10 year old John Deere riders.

Interesting debate.

Given a scenario where a guy is out mowing with a bushhog and has a heart attack and falls off the tractor.

If I understand the sides of the debate....One side of the debate thinks the tractor and bushhog should keep right on going after the guy falls off. The other side thinks the tractor should shut down when he falls out of the seat.

My side thinks that I should be able to stand up while bush-hogging in brushy areas to see better where I am heading. I don't think that my decision should be made by you, or that your decision should be made by me.

John, the Deere's didn't require you to hold the button in either. Once the tractor started moving, you could let up.

The one my Dad had must have been malfunctioning. I had to hold the button in or the PTO would stop. I tried not to ever back up if I could help it. He put over 900 hours on it before he passed.

I tend to evaluate the idea's merit, rather than its source. To me, a good idea is a good idea, no matter who came up with it. I think some struggle with that notion.

Yes, it was malfunctioning.

A few little things I do to my small tractor to make it more handy. Some of these add-on's would not be approved by the manufacturer and I am not recommending anyone do them. Use my ideas at your own risk. I'll put them in separate posts so the pictures will be easier to follow the explanation.

First is a hitch I added to my box blade. Since my box blade hangs on the back of the tractor most any time I am not using another implement, the drawbar was not accessible for the occasional trailer I needed to move. This solved the problem. I find I use the hitch to put my boat trailer into the water, my wood hauling two wheel trailer, and my log splitter. I also have three different trailers that need to be moved to mow, and this makes it where I can move them without even getting off the tractor. I usually don't even need to mess with the jack on the trailers, as I just lower the box blade, back up, raise it up under the hitch, then latch the latch without having to jack anything. I don't latch the latch if I am just moving a trailer a few feet to mow.

I welded a long receiver tube so I can put different type hitches as needed, but the drop hitch pictured is what I use most of the time. I can easily take the hitch out of the way if I want to do some serious dirt pushing. The 3/8 grab hook welded to the tube is very handy when I use a chain to pull brush away from a tree or some other job involving a chain.

Welding grab hooks on a loader bucket I find invaluable for moving stuff.

If I need to move a log with my bucket on, simply slip each end of a chain around two places near the middle of the log, the two loops approximately the width of the loader bucket hooks apart. Then tip the bottom of the bucket at a 45 degree angle and move the tractor up against the log with the cutting edge at ground level under the log. Pull the slack up and hook the chain onto the two grab hooks welded onto the bucket. Roll bucket back and log rests against the two side plates supported by the two chain halves. Very easy to move a large log or corner post.

The hooks are also handy for pulling T posts and any other lifting. But this is NOT an approved application so I do not recommend doing it. We have at least a dozen loader buckets around the farm on various tractors and loaders. They all have these hooks welded to the buckets right above the quick disconnect as pictured. The one that does not have any welded has large factory loops in that position. The grab hooks work a lot better because you can easily adjust chain length.

First picture shows hook on loader bucket. Next two pictures show grab hooks welded to my fork lift frame. The chain hooks are handy when using the forks with something bulky that might fall off the forks while transporting.

For a purist, they do make regular weld on hooks specifically for welding onto something. You have to get them from a specialty place that handles industrial stuff. I just use the hooks pictured and use the "high test" quality. I do not use the Grade 70 hooks because I was concerned about the alloy not welding correctly and I also do not use the low grade ones. I have never broken one or had one break loose in the 30 years been doing it this way.

Looks good......I have been meaning to do that.

This is an idea I will share, but will admit I rarely use. It seemed like a great idea and for some uses it might be, but the reality is I never use it........ at least yet. I will use the grab hook welded on occasionally.

It is a 2" receiver hitch attached to the center of the bucket. It is bolted on so I can take it off if wanted.

The idea was the same drop hitch pictured on my box blade above could be used with this receiver to move trailers or to put my pontoon paddle boat into the pond. I think it would work fine for that, but the reality is I just use the box blade.

A person needs to be careful welding a grab chain hook in the middle of the bucket. It is handy, but if a person has a particularly stout loader he could bend the center of the bucket as this position is not near as strong as where the bucket attaches to the loader.

Additional toolbox. My small tractor came with a small tool box in the fender. I keep my gloves there. But it was not nearly sufficient for the tools I like to carry. I can't stand doing any kind of work and not have at least some rudimentary tools with me. What a waste of time to have to go to the shed because I do not have a simple wrench or screwdriver.

You can see I made a tubing bracket and attached a large tool box, the same one we use on all our field tractors. It has a top tray, enough room for an assortment of tools, and is quick attach bracket equipped if for some reason I want to take it off.

At a minimum I keep a 10" and 12" adjustable wrenches. Phillips and flat screwdrivers, WD40, Vise-Grips, a short alignment bar or spud adjustable wrench (adjustable wrench with alignment bar used in metal building construction), Zip ties, various hitch pins, diagonal cutters, pliers, hammer, tape measure, some baling wire and probably some stuff I am forgetting. That usually covers about anything I need to keep me from going to the shed. If it is more involved than what those tools can handle, then I probably just need to get my service truck.

Another thing I really like is a quick hitch. It makes hooking and unhooking a breeze. I find that if attachments are easier to hook and unhook, I am more likely to use them when I may only have a small need, rather than just not using them because I don't want to go to the trouble of hooking them up.

Quick hitches are a pain in the rear on Catagory 1 (small) 3pt hitches. If you get up in the big tractors with cat 2, cat 3n and cat 3 the stuff has been standardized for a long time. But because few people use them on catagory 1 (small) implements, lots of manufacturers did not keep their implements to ASAE hitch standards. So if you have five implements, but two of them will not work with the quick hitch, it is almost not worth having it because then you have to remove the quick hitch to use the non-compliant implements. That was a problem when I used this QH on my JD2520 that I traded in for the JD3038 I have now.

So I made it a point to make everything be able to use the quick hitch when I traded tractors. This involved some welding and cutting moving pins and lengthening the pto shaft on my rotary tiller. On the 5' rotary mower it involved buying a flexible linkage to allow the mower tail wheel to float (without a quick hitch it would have floated at the top link connection).

Now I have everything that hooks up to this tractor will work with the quick hitch. Some will still not work with the upper hook, and in the picture you can see I use a pinned linkage at the top instead of the hook. I do not find this to be a big problem because this pin is easily installed by using the 3pt hydraulics to raise or lower the lower links a little to align the pin.

Not suggesting everyone would appreciate or needs one of these. But having used them on larger tractors for years, I like a quick hitch. They do have some down sides. The implement compatibility is one obvious one. The other thing is they do extend the implement about 3" further to the rear. On my 2520 that was a good thing because it had very short lower links. On this 3038 tractor it has long links to begin with so it puts the implement further back than it would need to be. This affects control and turning with heavy implements.

But all in all, I like it. Mine is a cheapie after market one.

One thing I have not done on this tractor that I want to is add a chain box. I have one on my JD5083 tractor, but have not got around to making one for my small JD3038.

I can't get along without a 5/16 grade 70 chain on a utility tractor. There is always something to lift or pull. So if it is not with me it is a trip back to the shed. I hate that. Consequently right now I have a smaller, lighter chain that resides behind my left foot on the floor board. But I do not like it there.

My intention is to build a small expanded metal chain box just large enough to hold a 20' 5/16 chain. I think I can mount it on the loader frame right below the tool box pictured above. On my 5083 tractor I have not only a chain box but also a shovel holder so I always have a shovel and chain with me. I find that very handy to have on a utility tractor with a loader.

Need to get it done this year! I ain't gettin no younger.

I wrap my chain around the box blade and one in a trail mix plastic container next to my right foot..... works most of the time

It works pretty good carrying them in the loader bucket...........till you forget they are there and they end up under a pile of dirt. Pretty much why I quit doing that. Lack of memory meets urgency of getting something done.

The way I like to build the chain boxes is have a flat notched place for the two grab hooks to hook on the edge. Then the chain goes in the expanded metal box. Expanded metal lets the moisture and mud get away from the chain, and the place for the hooks to reside keeps knots and tangles away and makes the ends easy to grab and drag the chain out of the box.

I usually have the weight box on so carry a chain in there.


Some really good ideas Snrub!

When I think I might need a chain, I throw them on the floor boards.

Come on over......I have a quick hitch and some implements that need some work. Would love to use the quick hitch but.......

Statistics.

Abstract
BACKGROUND:
Despite current prevention efforts, approximately 9,400 children younger than 18 years continue to receive emergency care for lawn mower-related injuries each year in the United States.
METHODS:
In this study, we analyzed data from a consecutive series of children treated for lawn mower-related injuries during a 53-consecutive-month period in the emergency department of a large, academic children's hospital. The objective of this study was to describe the epidemiology of lawn mower-related injuries to these children and to investigate the beliefs of parents regarding lawn mower use.
RESULTS:
There were 85 children treated for lawn mower-related injuries during the study period. The mean age was 7.6 years (SD, 4.3 years; median, 5 years), and 65% were boys. Thirty-four patients (40.0%) were admitted to the hospital, including 3 (3.5%) to the pediatric intensive care unit, and 30 (35.3%) required surgical intervention in the operating room. There were 25 children with lacerations (29.4%), 22 with fractures (25.9%), 18 with amputations (21.2%), and 10 with burns (11.8%). The most common body region injured was the lower extremity, accounting for 57.6% (49 of 85) of injuries, including 33 injuries (38.8%) to the foot/toe and 16 injuries (18.8%) to the leg. The hand/finger and head/neck regions each accounted for another 18.8% of injuries. The leading mechanism of injury was run-over/back-over (22.4%), followed by other blade contact (17.6%), thrown object (12.9%), burn (10.6%), and a fall off the mower (7.0%). Lacerations accounted for 68.8% (11 of 16) of injuries to the head/neck compared with 20.3% (14 of 69) to other body regions (p < 0.001; relative risk [RR], 3.39; 95% confidence interval [CI], 1.99 < RR < 6.01). Twelve injuries (36.4% [12 of 33]) to the foot/toe were amputations compared with 6 (11.5% [6 of 52]) to other body regions (p = 0.01; RR, 3.15; 95% CI, 1.31 < RR < 7.58). Burns accounted for 20.9% (9 of 43) of injuries among children 5 years of age or younger compared with 2.4% (1 of 42) of injuries to children older than 5 years of age (p = 0.02; RR, 8.79; 95% CI, 1.16 < RR < 66.39). On average, parents believed that a child should be a minimum of 13 years of age to operate a ride-on mower with supervision. Eighty-six percent of parents indicated that they had made changes in safety practices after the injury event.
CONCLUSION:
Despite current prevention efforts, serious injuries associated with lawn mowers continue to occur to children. Parental education should promote compliance with the American Academy of Pediatrics policy recommendation that children should be at least 16 years old before operating a ride-on mower. Automatic protection provided by safer product design is the strategy with the highest likelihood of success in preventing these injuries. The voluntary lawn mower safety standard American National Standards Institute/Outdoor Power Equipment Institute B71.1-2003 should be revised to include more rigorous performance provisions regarding prevention of penetration of feet and toes under the mower and into the path of the blades, shielding of hot mower parts from access by young children, and equipping all ride-on lawn mowers with a no-mow-in-reverse default feature, with location of the no-mow-in-reverse override switch behind the seating position of the ride-on mower operator.

Found here:https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16361919

I wish someone could tell me, how a seat switch on a lawnmower has had such a negative impact on their life. But it always comes down not to the seat switch, but some paranoid extrapolation of what "they" will do next if they are allowed to continue this horrendous assault on our rights. Which is what I alluded too earlier. It isn't about the switch. A lawnmower blade spins at approx. 19000fpm, and the belts and sheaves atop the deck which are driving them are screaming right along also. Why on earth do you need to be able to step off on the top of the deck, or just off to the side with your toes in harm's way, with the blades still spinning?

Isn't a seat safety switch a good idea, really? Put aside the politics for a moment, and just examine the topic at hand. A seat switch. Anyone?

I have no issues with seat switches, but I would like to expand on the topic. I grew up on a farm and was taught to drive a tractor way before I was taught to drive a car. I was not the only child around the community plowing at 9/10 years old either. Same thing with handling guns or anything else dangerous. Kids need teaching and not just turned loose. We didn't have a riding mower when I was growing up. I did it all with a push mower, but you can bet I was taught not to stick my hands and feet near the blades. I was also taught to remove the sparkplug wire before cleaning out the underneath.

I really think knowledge is what's missing from our youth and I lay that at the parents feet. All the switches in the world can't totally dummy proof everything made.

But in answer to your question, A seat switch should be left alone and not be tinkered with.

I would not disable the seat safety switch but I would like to see the design evolve to where there is an override, maybe like a RIO switch. I am with RAH on the point there are times you want to stand up. For example, when I'm using the FEL, it would be nice to stand up to see if it is full without the tractor shutting down. A simple push button that disables the seat switch when you want to stand up and then resets itself when you sit down again?

My dad was very safety consensus. We knew to stay away from brush mowers that could throw rocks. I am all for smart safety. I learned carpentry safety from my dad. He still has all of his fingers.

The seat switch doesn't bother me to be activated when the blades are running. BUT, it should not shut the engine off when the blades are not turning, but it does. To prevent this, you have to set the brake and lock it. It's just a little bit annoying.

Our son had his own summer mowing business by the time he was 13 years old. He showed a keen interest, and I taught him the ins and outs and hazards of mowers from an early age, and by the time he was a teen he was more competent to operate a mower than the vast majority of grown men.

Thanks for the replies. And for the record, I don't like some of the safety switches either.

Hey...what about a lanyard you wear around your wrist, like on a PWC?? Might not work for a small lawnmower, but on a tractor it would let you stand, but still kill the engine if you fell off?

If it was like the lanyard on outboard motors, it probably would not be enforced like that rule is. A PWC or outboard will still run with the lanyard not attached to a person, but enforcement personnel look for that violation, just like seat belts on cars. It would be a little hard to enforce on a tractor.

I guess you could run a jumper wire through the seat interlock, and attach that jumper to a short lanyard attached to a belt loop. If you actually used the lanyard and then fell off, it would pull the jumper out of the seat switch and stop the engine.

If someone was determined to not have a safety switch of any kind, you're right, it could be disabled the same as a seat switch. I was thinking along the lines of offering some degree of protection for those who recognize the need, yet still want more flexibility of operation.

Maybe even a switch that allowed the operator to choose between seat or lanyard, for those times when less experienced operators would be using the equipment.

How about if you hold down a button on the tractor steering wheel while standing on the tractor. If you fall and let go of the button, it stops. But that button could still be disabled by someone taping it down, but I don't know why someone would do that.

This has been an interesting discussion.

BTW, there are a lot of safety switch discussions on tractorbynet.com.

I'll stick to my guns on this idea unless a better one presents itself. It requires a conscious act by the operator to disengage the safety but only in the short term. Just like a RIO switch. It provides the flexibility to the operator to stand without sacrificing the safety provided during normal operation. It would also be hard enough to defeat that maybe folks wouldn't try as long as the flexibility for the operator is still there, even if you have to push a button.

Not as fool proof as the current system though as I can see a scenario where you are standing up mowing while on override, hit a hole that throws you from the tractor and it would keep on going.

I'm not sure I follow you, Bill. If the operator disables the switch so he or she can stand for a moment, what happens if you're thrown off while standing? Won't the tractor keep right on going? And if the solution is a momentary pushbutton, will it not require constant pressure to keep the system engaged, meaning the operator must use one hand to hold the button leaving only one hand on the steering wheel? Wouldn't that in itself be less safe, seeing as how you're basically using the wheel to hold on to? What about tight turning situations where you're steering lock-to-lock, and going hand over hand to do so?

LOL. I just edited my post saying the same thing about being thrown off while standing.

The idea is like a RIO where you don't have to hold the switch once you start to go in reverse. Once you go forward again, the safety resets.

Same principle here. Press the button as you stand up so the override would be in place until you sit down.

The button would not be on the steering wheel.

A true story about rotary mowers (Bush Hog, I think a seven footer). A local grain elevator manager, a young guy probably about 30 at the time, was standing outside talking to someone while an employee was mowing the grounds around the bins. Not sure how close he was to the mower, but not very close at all. Far enough away he thought he was safe.

He felt something on his stomach like a mosquito or bug bite and slapped it. Tiny spot of blood there but he did not think anything about it. Within hours he was deathly sick and they came close to loosing him at the hospital. Was hospitalized for several days with severe infection.

The mower had thrown a tiny piece of baling wire and it penetrated into his intestine. An intestine leak from a piece of rusty wire is a bad thing, or so they tell me. Like a miniature gun shot.

Thing of it is, he never knew he was hit with the wire. Being outside he just thought it was a bug bite. Did not know anything was wrong till a few hours later he fell deathly sick. I found out about it a couple weeks later when he recounted the episode to me.

Stay far away from mowers that are running. I cringe when I see people mowing their lawns and kids playing within twenty feet of a rotary mower of any kind. Even a lawn mower.

The safety switches are getting a lot smarter. Combines have had a safety seat switch for probably the last 20 years that if the operator leaves the seat, the header shuts off within a few seconds. It is a good idea, as more than a few farmers have been drawn into a corn head or platform header while trying to unclog something while the machine was running (one of the situations where Darwinism probably should be allowed to run its course, sad as it is when a neighbor is lost).

The practical problem with this is if there are chains that need to be oiled or if a person needs to listen for a bad bearing, it is a two person job. One person to sit in the seat and another to perform the procedure. That is fine if you have two people, but lots of farmers are solo operators. The work-around was a heavy tool box set on the seat. Some farmers carried one in the cab for that purpose. Or some farmers just taped the switch shut or bypassed it.

But as I said, with the advent of computers running almost everything now, the computer is smart enough to know if the switch has been bypassed. The computer realizes if the switch is never open, likely it has been bypassed and at best throws a code or at worst will not let the header engage till the code is cleared.

I had the unfortunate experience in my younger days of being with my dad when we went over to see if we could help a neighbor whose combine we could see sitting stationary but running for 1/2 hour or so..... He had been trying to unplug the corn head while it was running. He lost both legs and an arm to the gathering chains. I still occasionally have nightmares about that evening. Tough duty for a 10 or 12 year old.

I have been a nut on safety ever since.

I am also. Have to be when you have employees.

People have a strange attitude toward safety, in my opinion. Or I should say they generally have very poor methods of accessing danger in a logical fashion.

One of the easiest things we could do as humans to decrease our chances of becoming injured or killed is simply drive less miles. Every time we get in a car (or motorcycle ) we expose ourselves to more danger than a lot of things people obsess over about safety. They might obsess about a pesticide residue on their lettuce but think nothing of jumping in the car and driving five miles to the convenience store to get a giant slurpee. Yet the car drive is likely multitudes greater chance of sustaining injuries or death than many of the daily things people obsess over about safety. How many miles do we drive unnecessarily? I do a LOT, like most people. Yet they obsess over things that have minuscule odds of ever affecting them, while doing nothing about the things they can easily control to make their lives safer.

Our evaluations of dangers or "risks" are sometimes very illogical.

What was it John Wayne said? Life is tough and tougher when you're stupid.


There are people I call double oughts. Just plain dumb.

I didn't see this happen, but heard about this girl who got her head stuck in her steering wheel while sitting in traffic and had to be rescued by the fire department. Whether that's true or not, I dunno, but it was hard to keep a straight face whenever I passed her in the hall.

There's no way to absolutely foolproof something, as there will always be a more determined class of fools eagerly awaiting graduation. For any safety device to work, there needs to be a willingness on the part of the operator to utilize the equipment properly. Manufacturers know this, and recognize that there will be attempts to bypass safety switches by those who claim they impede upon their ability to use the equipment, or trample their rights under the constitution, it's always something. You're never going to reach that group, no matter what you do. So you focus on reaching the vast majority who want to be safe, but still need to be able to utilize the tractor in as large a variety of conditions as possible. Yes, there will need to be compromises. If your gripe has to do with being unable to crawl out on the hood while pulling a bush hog and steering with your feet, well, maybe things happen for a reason. My advice would be sure your insurance policy will still pay off, after it's discovered you jumped out the seat switch.

A seat switch is usually a set of normally open contacts, which close when you sit down, completing the circuit and supplying power to enable the engine to run. Come off the seat and the switch opens and shuts off the power, stopping the engine. Easy. What if we added another switch with normally open contacts, wired in parallel with the seat switch? Either switch closed will provide a complete circuit to the engine run command, but it will take BOTH switches to come open to shut off the power. If we take that second switch and mount it like an old Ford tractor starter button, down on the floorboards, then we can step on it, AND rise off the seat. The seat switch will open, but the foot switch will close and maintain the run circuit. Fall off, and both switches will be open, killing the engine. No lanyards, no added measures need be taken by the operator, just as long as one of the switches is closed, the tractor will run. This should allow sitting operation, and standing operation, but still provide protection in the event you fall off.

IMO that should work well.

It would be interesting to see the stats on how many people fell off of farm tractors and were hurt pre- and post= seat safety shut offs. I am not talking about yard tractors, but rather those used for more than mowing a yard.

I think it might be more interesting to see how many were killed.

I'll confess my ignorance here. It's been many many years since I've been around a "farm" size tractor. Do the "newer" ones have seat safety switches?

Some do, but I don't know if they all have them yet?

Back when I was a young man and going to college I received multimedia red cross training to be an ambulance driver and an attendant. I worked for a company that provided ambulance service to the whole county. This was in Wilbarger Co. Texas and we were the only ambulance service for the county. This was and is a farming community, where growing wheat is big business. This was in north western Texas. I was an attendant for four years making money to go to college. In the four yr period I was called out to two farms where a younger man was trapped under a tractor that had turned over and pinned them under the tractor. After digging two out from under the tractor one died and one survived. In both cases, the tractor was disking or plowing farm fields. I saw a lot of things happen to people both good (delivering babies and such) and some bad. I loved that job but it did not pay much and so I went a different way in life. Respect tractors and be safe when operating such things as tractors and mowers.

All the new ones do (last 15-20 years) but they serve a different purpose mostly. Not going to fall off a tractor in an enclosed cab.

They will mostly warn you of things that may still be turned on when you leave the seat. For example they will flash a warning light and a short buzzer if you leave the seat while the pto is still running. It just reminds you to shut it off before you leave the tractor but it is not mandatory to do so, for good reason. Things like grain augers, irrigation pumps, feed grinders, etc have to keep running with no operator present.

It will also give a warning if a hydraulic circuit is still engaged. And it will prevent the tractor from starting on some of them so a person can not be off the tractor to jump start across the solenoid or something like that.

Probably some other things they do that I do not recall. They are not really objectionable and serve a useful purpose.

But it is assumed professionals are running the machine so they are not quite as cumbersome as some of the hobby and consumer market stuff.

Thanks for the info guys!

Snrub,

I had to chuckle when I read this part of your post. When I was growing up there were still lots of family farms. Those "professionals" back then started at about 9 years old! I can also remember driving our two ton truck and having to sit on a cushion to see over the dash!

Our new LS has a seat switch with two wires running to it, so most likely a NO contact like I spoke of earlier.

Snrub makes a good point about cab tractors, but my gut says the non-cab, compact and utility models are probably hot sellers these days, and most are cabless. Plus, I'll bet many of their operators do not qualify for professional status. This group probably needs all the protection they can get.

Curiosity got to me, so I went out and ran a few quick tests. With the LS, I can dismount with the engine and pto running, but I need to set the parking brake to keep an alarm quiet. As soon as the tractor starts to move in either direction, pto on or off, if I come out of the seat the engine dies.

Update: the LS will pull a 6' yard box so full with stone that it's running over the back, with ease now. That additional 1100 lbs made a huge difference.

Yupp. I rounded a corner too fast with a 1950 1 1/2 ton Chevy on a gravel county road and put it in the ditch. Spilled some of the seed beans and a ten gallon milk can filled with gasoline for the planter tractor. I was 9 years old.

I was doing limited field work on tractors at 8 and quite a bit by the time I was 10. Started out on an 8N Ford and JD model B.

"Professional" is a rather loose term. I have met a few that were pretty unprofessional. And unlike me, they even had the credentials to prove it.

Edit: Which reminds me of a story. For my 20th year high school class reunion on the registration form was a place to put ones occupation. I put "Professional Farmer". When the little pamphlet came out with all the classmates occupations some of my farming classmates, having only listed their occupation as "Farmer", chided me a little and ask "What makes you professional?". I calmly just said "attitude".

Man those were the days! First tractor my dad put me on was our Farmall H with FEL. Turned me loose pulling a drag around the field he had just disked. I was in heaven. We also had a JD H, AC WD and a Ford Jubilee with FEL. My dad's idea of "new" equipment was if you could find a spot somewhere that still had the original paint!

Thanks for the ride down memory lane....

My son at work in 2008

Well done RAH! He will remember those days fondly when he is old and gray...not to mention the skills acquired.


What's the vintage on that disk? Reminds me of what we used to have but ours had cinder blocks tied on with baling wire for weight!

He is now 6'3" and 210 lbs (lean). I can tell you from a bad decision I made to have a "fun" sparring session with him, you do not want to catch a size-16 foot from a black belt in karate! He was very apologetic and offered to get me head gear, but I said that would not be necessary because I would not be sparring with him again (much better decision!). And that was 2" ago! In all fairness, I leaned into the kick and he could not avoid the contact. Good thing that I have a hard head! He is a great kid, but as most young men his age, he has reached his "height of knowledge". He soon will be learning how little any of us really know. That is just part of growing up.

On the disc, I bought it 25 years ago on an auction for $9, but it cost me another 20 to replace a disk and all the grease fittings (back then). I don't use it much anymore since we have a very nice rototiller for our vegetable operation. I have always favored drag discs over 3-pts.

Today I bought a 5 ft Mahindra rotary cutter for my little tractor. As long as I go slow, the little LS handles it fine. Most of my ground is too bumpy to go over 3 or 4 mph except for the walking path I have been grooming.

This grapple is really working good. Cleaning up some flood debris and limbs I had cut before the storm. This picture is of it on my larger tractor (JD 5083E) but it also fits on my 3038E.

I think it would be a handy attachment for any pondstead where brush clearing is involved.

Original post when I bought it with picutures

Nice set up. I use forks, but it's not as easy.

I looked and looked at a grapple. I just don't have enough use for it to justify the cost. I think I'd need an addl hydraulic line also. Or can you run it with the same lines as a loader. It's been a few months since I even started my tractor. Hope the diesel isn't turned to jelly. I keep it in a enclosed barn, and we had a mild winter, but I didn't put in the stabilizer like I have the past few winters.

Just a quick update on the LS. It has thus far done all I have asked of it. I'm comfortable now saying I'm glad we bought it, and would buy again with no reservations. As I suspected, I'm not exactly working it to death...the hourmeter just ticked over 20 hrs this evening, and I have yet to even flip the pto switch to "on".

We decided it needed a new home, so we tore down the existing machinery shed and are constructing a bigger one. The projects never end.

Never ending projects? Ain't it the truth. I am not crazy about tractors, seem like they beat me up to much but I would not want to be without one. I have a rental excavator coming out on the 2nd, I have to replace some drainage culverts and some other work also. I would like to have a bull dozer full time but they can be costly to say the least.

When I saw the JD 3025e's on sale for 19Kbux with loader, box blade, bushhog and trailer I picked one up. My first tractor and Im in my late 50's. I only have three acres, but I finally feel I have some control over what goes on here. Just today I moved a bunch of coquina rocks to create an erosion dam and and raised the road along our little pond with fill sand. A lot of rocks have some nice JD green paint on them.

Tomorrow I'll do a little bushhoggin..
Well, they seem to retain good resale value. That's why I went new.

Built this little project for my FIL to haul wood with. He had been using only the bucket on the loader and taking lots of trips. His eyesight is bad and the thought of him backing or maneuvering a trailer around his house seemed unwise. So I built him a 3pt carrier. Can't jackknife it.

I cut him quite a bit of wood to heat and cook with and after Thanksgiving wife and I decided to buy him a 3pt carrier. Went to the typical farm stores and none in our area had one in stock. So I decided to build a quick a dirty one. Should be able to complete it in a day. So three days later (I work slow and decrepit) here is the finished product.

All is made out of scrap metal that came from my farm "iron pile" with the exception of the strips the boards bolt to. That came from the new iron rack. The bolts and screws were new. The boards all came from ones used on concrete forms and other previous projects as well as some crating material that we had some parts shipped in. The handle on the back was new as was the paint. So 95% of the project came from the scrap pile.

I think it turned out decent and my FIL was thrilled. He got my MIL out of her easy chair and had her come outside on the first load to show her all about it.

Heck Yeah! Been thinking along those lines myself. Nice work!

Thanks!

I started out just going to do something "quick and dirty". Just something thrown together to haul wood, no paint or anything. Then as I progressed thought "this feature would be nice". Then another. Then a tailgate would be good. (the way my projects go - they take on a life of their own) so it turned into more work. Then I thought "hey this is turning out pretty nice, I ought to paint it".

But the end result was worth it. My FIL will give it a workout and hopefully it will help him keep active a few more years. That was the goal, to make his life a little better.

Sweet John! Let me know when you go into mass production! I could use one of those!

Nice John. Only problem is that it holds too much wood. By the time I get a bucket full, I want to take a break

I hear you and know the feeling.

This one is three feet deep by five foot wide. I started out 6 inches deeper and cut it down, thinking I did not want him getting it too heavy plus I wanted him to be able to reach all the wood easily from the rear. I am glad I cut the extra 6" off because when we had it level full of wood as in the picture when he went to raise it at engine idle the tractor would not do it (has 2544 hours on it so hydraulic pump could be a little weak). But he revved it just slightly and it lifted it easily.

So that told me I had the size about right for his size tractor. I think I could have made it 3.5' deep for my 38 hp tractor and it would have handled it easily.

My FIL does not get in any hurry, but for his age and only having one arm, he gets quite a bit done. The single handle in the middle of the gate is so it can be taken out with one hand. If I had made it for me I would have put two handles.

John, after watching all you do, I have decided you are as handy as a shirt pocket! Nice job on the 3 pt cart.

Very nice......!!!

Really enjoyed reviewing this thread, lots of good info despite the squabbling over the nanny err safety features on the newer tractors. Reminds me a bit of how aviation has changed over the years....making it the safest form of transportation per mile there is.

I thought I would be buying a small tractor this year and am fortunate enough to have three of the most popular dealers nearby. Red, orange and green. I drove all three in the sub compact and compact sizes. They were all 25 HP though I rented a 38 HP Mahindra for a day.

The bigger Mahindra was more tractor than I needed for pond and yard work. It had only a FEL and a box blade. I leveled banks and spread some gravel for creek crossings and really appreciated the power. It was geared as I thought that was what I wanted. It was a little awkward between bank and fence but did well. The 25 HP version with backhoe was a bit cheaper than Kubota or Deere but a little rougher and louder and had a worse reputation for maintenance, deserved or not, than the other two.

I didn't get to work the Kubota but really liked it driving around the lot. The sub compact was quiet and quite capable feeling with a FEL and backhoe. The next size up a good friend bought this year and he seems quite pleased with it with FEL and BH. The local dealer doesn't have the best reputation, again, deserved or not. Both sub and compact were priced right between red and green, Mahindra and Deere.

The Deere dealer has a great reputation and they just gave me a sub compact to work for the day and work it I did. I borrowed a friend's car hauler (4 wheel) trailer and picked it up with my 4x4 3.0 L Ford Ranger. It pulled it with ease; a real advantage. I dug 2 boat launch ramps, hauled rock to reinforce culverts and creek crossings, cleared brush and took it some places I likely shouldn't have. Handy, capable little tractor; I liked it a lot.... but. It did develop a power steering leak that cut my day a couple hrs short and I don't like the fact that the FEL doesn't have the standard skid steer release; it's proprietary. It is also a bit more expensive than the rest. Green is the color of money.

In the end I decided to wait until next year both because I'm cheap and I still can't get my wife to move permanently to the pond err farm.

My experience with tractors started with a Super H Farmall at about age 6 before I could reach the pedals and proceeded through newer and newer tractors from Deere, Oliver, Ford and several more IH's. I took a long break continuing to operate heavy equipment from a 25,000 lb F-106 to a 300,000 lb or so 767...... a lot has changed, most for the better.

I will not be without 4 wheel drive and am warming up to hydrostatic drive. Operate in 2 wheel, get stuck, back out in 4 wheel. Loader work with the hydrostatic is superb though I still don't mind the clutch. The BH on the sub is very handy and balances out the FEL very well if both are attached but I really didn't like the single seat. The hoe on the sub is so small that the tractor needs to be moved often and getting off to change the seat position every time is a pain for someone that has been around the sun as many times as I have. I understand the new Deere sub has 2 seats with the back hoe, a real plus.

The new safety stuff didn't bother me at all. I remember going hell bent for leather on a Utility 350 at about age 15 down a dirt road and bouncing out of the seat. Flopping around off the side hanging on to the wheel was not good. Though I managed to climb back on at speed with nothing damaged but my ego, it could easily have been the end; I could have used the nanny to shut the engine down. A lot of my land is steep so the rollover protection and seat belt are certainly welcome as well.

I'm leaning toward Green but being so cheap I squeak when I walk, Orange and Red are not out of the question. I'm currently beating on a Sears 18 HP mower that gets a lot done but won't last using it the way I do. The subs are handy around the house and pond but I have a fairly large area of pasture I lease that I might like to work on such that the larger tractors are still a possibility.

These things are so expensive that renting is certainly tempting.

Good luck in your ultimate decision. The good news is that as far as I am aware, all the major manufacturers make a pretty good tractor. You are not likely to go too wrong with any of them.

For utility, shuttle, dinking around work the hydrostat transmission can not be beat. If a person is going to hook up to a plow, disc or heavy tillage and work it in that application regularly for long hours it is not the best choice. Too much loss in the transmission mechanism. Several better choices available for that application (gear, power shift and CVT which incorporates some hydrostat features but usually either gear or hydrostat are the two only available choices in the compact size tractors). But for the average home owner that mostly does utility jobs involving going back and forth a lot, and if especially the wife or kids will be driving it occasionally, the convenience of the hydrostat transmission beats gears and a clutch hands down.

Glad you enjoyed the thread. If I have something I think will be useful to others concerning small tractors I try to add it to this thread just for that reason. I also thought there was a lot of good information and opinions that are worth keeping the thread alive occasionally for new members that come along.

I really like my orange 34 hp tractor. I wish I would have gotten a larger size. It does everything I want to do but dealer says I work that little tractor hard. So undersized is not good. And I would really like to have a 75 hp track hoe but the cost is more than I want to spend, so rental is working for me for now. Rental might be your best bet.

Tracy I have a Kubota MX 5100 and guess what..... it ain't big enough for what I want it to do.....

Hey guys would like your opinions. I've got my little 2003 JD 585x (1285 hours) over at my JD dealer for service. They report one of the cylinders on my JD 45 FEL is leaking. My question is should I have them go ahead and rebuild all the cylinders on the FEL, even the ones not currently leaking, effectively zero timing the FEL, while they have it?

Thanks,

Bill D.

Bill, I suppose it never hurts to be proactive about this stuff, but if it were me I might just repair the one that’s leaking. Sure as I tell you that however, you’ll get the thing back home and spring a leak somewhere else, so maybe price out the complete job vs a single cylinder and go from there?

Thanks Tony! I will go with that advice.

As always..much appreciated!

It wasn’t very informative advice, but you’re welcome to it. Maybe I’ll get a discount on my “user” fee, since the quality of my answer was lacking.

I agree with sprkplug.

For us in our shop, when it comes to hydraulic cylinders, we tend to go on the philosophy of letting sleeping dogs lay.

Thing about hydraulic cylinders, some are very simple to rebuild. We do most of them ourselves in our own shop. Then there are those that are buggers. Some involve freezing things and some involve heating them to get the parts over other parts without distorting or breaking them. Those unfortunately we take to a specialty hydraulic shop. I say unfortunately because if it is a reasonably small cylinder (as opposed to something huge that would come off a dozer or excavator) it is sometimes just as cheap for us to buy a brand new cylinder over paying the labor and parts charge to rebuild one.

So as long as they are working, not leaking down or leaking externally, we tend to leave them alone.

The other danger of rebuilding them is if it happens to be a tricky one and the mechanic screws it up, you may end up bringing the tractor back to the shop to fix what they screwed up that was working perfectly well before they went into it. Trust me, it happens.

Thanks for the experience Snrub,

I think I will let sleeping dogs lie and only rebuild the cylinder leaking on my new shed's wood floor!

Bill, I agree with Tony. Fix the problem. The others may never have a problem.

Thanks Dave. I got the same advice now from three of you old gray beards so I guess that's the way to go!

Just in case you're not familiar with the term...."gray beard" is a name assigned to engineers in my business that have been around forever and know their stuff!

Some of my beard and hair is starting to look more white than gray.