I'm giving myself a 50th birthday present...a 60'x30' shed with a 20'x30' single shop bay in it. The 40 x 30 shed will have gravel (for now). I think that building this way gives me more room for additional bays in the future. It might end up completely enclosed, and/or have a 30x40 bay added to the right side (South).

I'll just throw a bunch of pictures up to get to where we are today.

I put this further out from the house than existing structures. Once it's up, I'll tear down a couple of buildings.



Planning ahead for a two-post lift.



And a bathroom, with shower.



Slab laid, before Thanksgiving.



This will be a building one day.



And these...at 540# each.



Got the poles set.



And today, I came home to this wonderful sight:

Looking good.

I bet the northern guys look at and say "that will never work, we would have 6' of snow on top".

Quite the difference of buildings going from the far south to way up in Canada and what loads they have to support.

We would need a little more slope on that roof here somewhere in the middle.

Will be a nice addition to his property.

Looks great.

Several years ago I built a pole building 24' x 24' and 12' high at the bottom of roof joists. It is for storing my larger toys.

I only put sheeting on only one side and on half of the back. It let's drop my tractor implements and other heavy items in positions where I don't have to move things to get at the implement I want to use.

Nice work ! I can appreciate this process.

covered space is always good...and it doesn't seem to matter how big you build a building it ends up not big enough. Looking good!

Looking good!! Keep the pic's a coming.

Thanks, I appreciate the good words.

About the pitch, or the lack of pitch...snrub, you've got it pegged...most sheds are pretty low pitch here, and we get very little snow.

cat, I've seen that on a number of storage sheds around here. I have a 34' long gooseneck trailer that I want to get under cover, so that will stick out a bit. I'll put bollards in at the back of the trailer slot. My boat goes in next to the GN, so that end of the open bay can't have anything else. I have a 16' car hauler that'll go in the center and I'll put pallet racks up across that 20' span...got them for hauling them away from Lowes about ten years ago when they were changing them out.

dlowrance, your point is very much valid. And one thing about a lot of storage space is that you always need what is deep behind all the other stuff. One of the auto restorer/paint & body guys here has multiple bays, none deeper than two cars. That is why I decided to make this a single slope...I can add another 60' to the south before coming off the front. Of course, the likelihood of that happening is pretty small...but better to plan as if it can happen.

I may end up with a "porch" in front of the garage door. We'll see how hot it gets without it. I'm having insulation sprayed in.

Again, thanks for the compliments and ideas.

Mark

Looking good Mobilus!

There are plenty of flat or low pitch roofs up here. Just have to design for potential snow loads. I'm leaning that direction myself.

Have any of you had a metal building insulated with spray foam?

I think I'll go ahead and have it done once the shell is complete (hopefully next week). My builder swears by it, says that it keeps the building tighter and less noisy in addition to the heating efficiency. I do know that if I don't do it now, it probably won't happen.

Looking at roughly 1600 sq ft, what is a guesstimate on cost?

Go by the old saying, "You pay for insulation, whether you get it or not". Something like that.

I've heard nothing but good about the spray foam. I think it "Is" pricey but very good. Agreed, do it now.

Got all the steel work done today!







Looking forward to seeing the sheeting go up! And I will definitely paint that door!

I'm also interested in the cost of spray foaming. I want to do the 20 ft shipping container that I bought. I have a card with the contact info of a guy in Bowie that does it but haven't done anything yet.

I bought the container to store my 4 wheelers after my others were stolen and was told that the extreme heat would be bad for the bikes.

I got a rough quote for doing a pole barn. 30'x40'x10' tall walls. One 40' side has a service door, an 18' wide and a 10' wide garage door. So, roughly 1,100 sq. ft. Spraying the walls only, not the ceiling. 2" thick would give approximately R16 and would be around $7,000.00.

I don't know if that's high or low. If any of you get a quote, let me know what it was because I'm curious to see how honest the guy was.

I'm not sure about foam insulation on the walls, but I know from experience that you need some type of barrier on the ceiling of a pole barn to retard sweating. I have two barns, both about 40 x 60, one with one inch foam pads under the sheet metal and one with nothing under the roof metal. The one without anything under the roof drips internal moisture continually during certain times of the year. At times it almost appears that it is raining inside.

Dave - Ive found that my 20' container doesn't get stifling hot. Part of it is probably because it is a very light grey, and it is shaded most of the time. In the summer it will get warmer than the out side temp, but not by much. But, then we usually don't have many days when it gets to even the mid-90s.

We built a new house about a dozen years ago. I don't remember the particulars, but I don't believe it was significantly different than fiberglass batt. Two guys with sprayers did the two story house, with finished basement, in less than a day. That included between the ceiling/floor joists.

One of my neighbors just finished insulating a 32X40 machine shed last week. He went with the old school pink fiberglass rolls, as they were right at 1/2 the cost of the spray in for the same R value. that was calculating material costs only, as he was planning to do either job himself. He did not factor in the extra time it took, which was considerable. I'd guess 3 times as long to install 'standard' insulation vs the spray in? Maybe 4 times?

Another consideration in his case was that he had a conventionally constructed shed, with 2X6 wall studs at 16" centers - so rolled insulation was a viable solution. In your case you'd either be going with the 4X8 sheets of polyethylene foam or the spray in solution. The foam sheets install easily, I've used them in several applications.

Dave, I'll ask the guy about your container when I hear from him and let you know. Wasn't that container red? A good coat of Sno Seal (I think that's what the stuff you can paint the top of a travel trailer with is called) might make a big difference.

esshup/cat, I have been looking on different sites and my observation is that the further north one is, the higher the price of spray foram insulation. Downright ridiculous in the northeast, from what I've read...also, it appears that Texas has some of the better prices. From your bid, that's around $3.50 sq ft/in. I'm hoping for half that...we'll see.

Bing, I've experienced the ceiling sweating in a 20x20 detached garage that we have. I used to work inside hardened aircraft shelters in various countries around the world, and came to accept the "inside rain" as a fact of life. Supposedly the spray on insulation will eliminate it.

dlowrance, I have had so many unexpected expenses this past year that I have just learned to take a deep breath and do it (whatever "it" is) because the options are limited, but all are expensive. You're right about my options here, and I think that the spray foam would be the better choice if I want to get to work "in" and not just "on " this shop.

Heck, I just got hit with a $2300 bill for the wife's truck and that is for periodic maintenance (timing chains, sprockets, phasers, and tensioners/guides)!!! But life is still good! Savings might be taking a hit, but that's what it's there for, right?

Mark, I called the guy in Bowie today and left a message to call me. It's the typical red/rust color that is normal on the containers. Let me know if you hear from your guy.

Ken, it gets hot enough in the summer that I open the double doors and stand back away for a minute.

To illustrate the difference in our climates: In the summer, we can't leave on Friday after work to go there. Our mobile home(AKA Poor White Trash Trailer House) has a large 220v A/C in the front and a small 110v in the back bedroom. The 110 cannot cool the mattresses enough to sleep on them. So, we go on Saturday morning and one of my first steps is to turn on the A/C, turn back the bed spread and top sheet and close the door. Even then, it takes a couple of hours to cool the mattress. When I light the water heater, the burner doesn't start. The water is already hot enough.

If it's too expensive for spray insulation, I'll Kool Seal the top and paint the sides of the container white.

Some air vents installed at the top and bottom of the walls would keep the inside of the shipping container somewhat cooler. They are fairly airtight.

Mobilus, nice job on your shop. (aka: man cave/dog house)

Thanks, gully washer!

I got the sheeting started! Well, the building crew did, anyway.

I had measured out what I needed in the closed "shop" portion and it will still be adequate for a single stall bay, as I planned....

but, the pad seemed small when there was no structure on it, then it seemed larger when the steel went up, but now that the sheeting has enclosed three sides it seems small again.





I know it is a visual thing, and will work just fine. Isn't it strange how perception of spaces changes?

Hopefully, it'll get finished this week. I still haven't gotten an estimate on the insulation. Once the builders are done and I have built up and leveled out the ground in the open part, I have to buy some gravel. Don't know about prices elsewhere, but it's pretty spendy here. I'm going to stain and seal the concrete...any recommendations on brands?

The shop is lookin good! Just wanted to mention, when your asking about spray insulation know which kind your getting a quote for as there are two kinds, open cell and closed cell. The closed cell is much more expensive and packs a better R value in a smaller space. Search google to learn other differences. I had closed cell installed on my old farm house because the walls are true 2 x 4 and I could get more R value in that space.

Thanks, Loretta!

I finally got a bid on the closed cell spray insulation for the shop: $2500. I want to check with some other installers before ponying up.

For those of you with experience, should I install electrical components (outlets, light fixtures, etc) before or after the insulation?

Depends on how thick your going. I have seen guys put a bolt through the end of the chainsaw bar and use it as a depth guide to cut a grove to place the wire in when wiring the shop. Up here in Canada we put 3" closed cell spray insulation.

In my experience it is best to run the electrical first. If you have any water lines do not spray directly on them. They will freeze up here if you do that. Most people think spraying them with foam is the best thing to do but the foam will transfer cold even that it is insulation and they will freeze. Best to leave an air gap.

Cheers Don.

David, those shipping containers get real hot in the summer time. I have loaded/unloaded hundreds of them over the last 30 years and the temps get way up there.

We warehouse a lot of the spray foam products and it does work very well, but....once the interior gets warm isn't it still going to be pretty hot?

Have you considered building a pole barn type roof over your container? That might be a cheaper solution and also allow for creating some vents in the container.

Just my 2 cents worth of opinion.

That's fantastic, Mobilus! The building looks great. I know what you mean about the visual impact a building has on a slab. We are just about finished with a pavilion that I began chronicling here a bit over a year ago (no updates for awhile) but the slab seemed huge till we got the structure in place. We even added a roughly 8' extension of concrete and it still feels really small!

Congrats on your progress - that's going to be a great building!

Your welcome!

When comparing prices make sure the bids are for the same R value, ask how thick it will be. With closed cell spray insulation your cavity won't be filled up. My 4" walls had about as much insulation as Don said and there is enough room to still fish wires, the existing wires were sprayed over.

It looks like your shop will be sprayed from the inside. The installer should have some advice on when you should wire as they will see your situation in person. My guess is you should wire first. My siding was removed and the insulation was sprayed from the outside (I have wood boards between my lathe and studs, house built c.1850).

If you spray from the inside, I would put something down on your floor and tape or cover anything that could get overspray on it. Any overspray can be removed but it's easier to prevent the extra work involved in cleaning stuff up and it may stain(?). Also, the closed cell insulation doesn't trim up as neatly as you might think and with the cost, I wouldn't want to cut into it.

For my application the closed cell insulation was the best option and I was really pleased with the results. Hope this helps.

Loretta

Don, thanks for the advice about the water lines. I'll probably have a water spigot in the bathroom wall...that way I can avoid having any along the walls. I can always stub one out on the front outside when I trench the water line in. The way our water restrictions are, I am planning on using rainwater catch for washing vehicles and equipment anyway.

I think I'll only have an inch of foam sprayed on the walls, maybe two on the ceiling. If I can prevent the sun from turning it into an oven, that would be great.

Todd, I pulled the truck into it for the first time today and looks are very deceiving...there was plenty of room, even for my crew cab. The plan is to build out the bathroom, and the workbench/tools/cabinets on the short end with the bathroom. I might build a loft there as well. One thing is for sure, everything not nailed down will be on casters.

And thanks for the compliment.

Loretta, I'll definitely wait and wire it first. That'll give me a couple paychecks' time to get the required green for the foam. I will definitely cover the floor. I want to stain it, probably a reddish brown...still looking into that. Yes, you have given me some good advice, and I appreciate it!

Still have to do some trim and the door install, but we're getting close!

Mark

One final thought. I don't know if you plan on finishing off the ceiling but the spray on foam should be covered. It doesn't turn out super flat or attractive and it's not good if it's exposed to UV radiation.

It's moving along fast and I look forward to seeing it finished. I love watching projects like this. Good job!

Hi Mark, your neighbor Kim here. I've been out of town a lot since mid-December, but back at home now for a few weeks. As you know, the previous owner of our property nearly burned down his/our shop building and half of the neighborhood a few years ago. When he restored the shed, rather than repainting the interior, he had foam sprayed into it. I haven't looked closely at how thick it is, but I've been very impressed at how cool/warm it stays in summer and winter. FWIW, a window that you can open in the summer and a vent on the roof will work wonders in keeping a shop cool. It lets natural convection move the hot air out of the space in the summer.
We should be around all afternoon both days this weekend if you'd like to stop by and have a look at my pond project status and check out the insulation on the shop and how they did the wiring.
See ya,
Kim

I have no idea how easily that foam burns. Ask the company. I don't know if a welding spark or something like that would light it. I don't know if it should be covered or left exposed.

I insulated a tank system on a life cycle tester with a 2 part urethane foam insulation kit. A spark from the torch found it's way down a small gap thru the cover and lit it right up! I dumped a bucket of water on the cover first, then scrambled to remove the cover and put the rest of it out. What a mess! It burned the paint off the machine in that area and it was a real joy cleaning up all the charred stuff.

I would think the flammability ratings have improved a bit since then.

Most shops with insulation have a sheeting of tin on the inside to help prevent the insulation from catching fire.

Yes, ask the contractor, I do believe it should be covered.

We did 2# closed cell foam in our house. I had the first inch sprayed in before the wiring, then we had the wiring installed and then the final foam sprayed. Stuff the electrical boxes with fiberglass insulation to keep out the overspray.

I know that by code our ICF basement foam needed to be finished/covered due to fire risk.

Loretta, I don't know if there is a difference in the foam, installation, or what, but most buildings down here are foamed and not covered...except for the lower walls. I was looking at the websites of a few of the installers here and it looks like they spray the insulation and leave it be...especially the ceilings. Some paint it though, and it looks pretty good. They also spray the stuff on the top of buildings, both flat roof and pitched, so they must have the UV problem solved.

Kim, I hadn't even thought about the cooling aspect of having windows...duh! I always thought that if I built a traditional gable roofed shop I'd install a working cupola, but I don't know about this roof. I'll consider a window! I've got a giant porta-cool and plan on using it...they do a pretty good job. I will definitely come by sometime soon, if not this weekend, definitely the next. My father-in-law is in hospice care and will only be around a few more days.

esshup, JKB and jludwig: the guy I talked to so far said they spray a fire retardant top coat if left exposed...at least that's what I heard, I still have a lot to learn about the stuff. I'd think that due to the cost of the insulation alone that it'd be a smart move to provide some sort of protection, whether that be tin or plywood.

Hesperus, by the time I scrape together the cash required to do the insulation, I should get some immediate feedback on the effectiveness! It'll probably be getting warm here! This journey is really just starting!

I am still waiting on the roll-up door; it is supposed to be installed by Friday. Thank you all for your interest and advice!

Well, the insulation guy hasn't returned either of my 2 calls so I figure to clean and roll on some sealer on the top and paint the sides.

Larry, I'm not sure anything will really work but I'm going to try. The container has a couple of small air vents on each side but they can't be all that effective.

Mama is on the warpath about the $ flowing out of the checking account so spray in insulation might just be a future project.

Dave,

I have kept my 4 wheelers in a 40 foot container for years.... no real issues that I have seen.

Thanks, Gary Mac (formerly GaryTexas, but couldn't get my old account active again)

Hey Gary, welcome back.

It has been a while since I posted on this thread. 2014 as started off with multiple challenges. One of them required us to utilize the shop as a storage unit until our house is remodeled. Although I was disheartened about having to postpone any more work on the shop for a few months, at least we had it available and didn't have to move everything into a storage unit in town.

Here's a picture with the door on:

Update: We are officially back in our house...buying furnishings and ringing out small problems from the rebuild, but we are HOME!

Now to get that shop emptied and get some wiring started!

Update: What two years and a lot of hard work have brought...


It's getting there...slowly.

Really nice. Having doors is great. I have an open front shed I keep my small tractor, UTV, pickup, etc in and have threatened to close it off with overhead doors. Everything gets so dusty with it open even though there are no nearby fields or anything to make it dusty.

We finally had a small 20x20 garage built specifically for our 4 motorcycles and it is soooooo nice to have specific storage that is easily used (as opposed to moving things around every time we wanted something out).

You are going to enjoy it!

Does it have a flat roof, or slightly sloped to rear?

If you look in the older pictures John you can see a slight slope to the back.

Those Texas guys don't have to worry about snow load much!

Thanks, snrub! And yes, doors for the big bay are coming, but I'm adding to the shop as I get money saved for it...so, maybe by winter. We've had a couple of driving rains from the west that have made me wish they were already installed.

You're right about the slope, we can build almost flat...this one is 13' on the front and 12' on the backside, over a 30' span. I'm not sure what the pitch is, less than .5%?

In the future, I'd like to put a full-span awning across the front.

Having rescued enough lights from a contractor friend who was scrapping them for a ransom of a single case of beer, I found that I had to replace the ballasts (9.xx each on Amazon) but still had less than $12 a fixture for 4 bulb T8s. Good enough for me!


Installed a roll-up door between the lift bay and the big bay...thinking that any debris from metalwork will be separated from "clean" work.


And something I recommend that everyone that does much maintenance gets...a lift. I use it constantly and think it is the best tooling the shop.

WOW; coming along nicely. BTW, isn't it great to FINALLY need some slope for rain?

Agreed, looking great!

Glad to see progress.

Thanks, gentlemen!

Yes, it is, Dave! We got a little rain today, actually. We might make it through the summer without brown grass!

What year nova is that? Your shop is very nice. I too installed a lift in my shop. Don't know how I ever got along without it!!

Flame, it is a '65 hardtop. I've had it for about thirty years now. Stored for 17 years when I was active duty AF, I hauled it out to Texas and started "working on it". So far, I have a TCI Mustang II-based front end and a narrowed 8.8 rear end from a 98 4x4 Ford Exploder. Picked up a 5.3L motor that needs rebuilding and modding to fit the car, but have a 350 that was in it before. Still not sure if the fuel injection route is worth it.

Starts and stops, separated by years...but I seriously plan on making some progress now that I have the shop.

You GOTTA love those Ford Exploders!

I do...they make great donor vehicles! From all I read, the 8.8 posi is nearly as strong as an old 9-inch, but has c-clipped axles... so if it were headed to the track, it wouldn't have been the right choice. But it is an affordable option since I just want a street cruiser.

would an old 12 bolt work? Was it originally a SS with that 350? That is probably the most collectible year for the Nova. I have restored many old muscle cars and still have a 1969 Mustang Mach1 completely restored and a 1933 Ford Bonnie and Clyde 4 door street rod. Do all my own work from top to bottom. Thus the reason for the lift in my shop. Good luck with your project!!

I guess you could make it work, but the beauty of the 8.8 is that in the Exploder, the punkin is off-center by 2 7/8 inches. You just have a fab shop cut the long tube down by that same amount and get another short-side axle.

And no, the car had a 194 ci straight six in it when I bought it. It really was in good shape, and my dad said I'd regret hot rodding it. If I could have it in the same shape as when I bought it today, I'd do it in a minute. I bought the 350 from a guy in Tampa when I rode in the Camaro it was in and the guy pulled the front end off the street...impressed me and I was too intimidated at the time to try to rebuild a motor, so I bought it. Dirt cheap, too, because big blocks were all the rage.

Your cars sound too cool, Flame!

Sorry for all the car talk, folks...I know that this is a pond forum!

I drove my car down by the pond?? OK I'm done. Again, good luck on your project MOBILUS

Don't apologize Mark. We go in a lot of fun directions here.

Speaking of 9" Fords ... My 1978 Bronco.

Very nice ride, basslover! I like those old Broncos. I heard Ford was contemplating bring them back in 2020.

About 25+ years ago I had one of the old half cab Broncs. I don't think I knew what reverse gear was good for.

Jacked up, big tires and 4WD

Thank you. Spend 8 months restoring / rebuilding it. Frame-off.

Went from:


to:


Original interior was in fantastic condition.

Sweet ride!!! Dwight has some serious shop organization competition!!!

Nice Basslover, I have owned two Bronco's in the 90's and would like to have another to get around the place. I wished I had your experience in rebuilding because I would love to have one like Dave mentioned for rough housing around the place.

Tracy

PS, I am a ragtop guy and my eyes went right to the covered up one in the background. Got pictures

Covered one looks like a early Corvette or baby bird.

The saran wrapped 'vette is a '57 IIRC. Blown motor. Owner was spending a long time looking for a period correct replacement.

I replaced everything on my 78 Bronco leaving only the transmission and engine for this Autumn. Replacing with a new tranny and a built engine. And when I say I replaced everything, that means everything. All grade 8 hardware, Tom Wood's custom drive shafts, new front and rear brakes, swapped over to a new hydratech braking system, new water cooler, new aluminum radiator, blah blah blah. I've narrowed down to two engines and tranny. The transfer case will be gone through and made whole if needed.