It's bow season and I was in the country just fixing to leave the house with the XBOW and head toward a feeder and chair under a cedar tree. I have a corn feeder about 100 yards from my kitchen window. BTW, I don't live there. I looked out the window and there were 2 bucks feeding. So, not wanting to disturb that, I sat and watched. They fed for about 15 minutes and walked off. Then a couple more showed up. None of them met the "antlers outside the ears" measurement so were illegal. While they were feeding 2 more bucks walked by but didn't mess with the corn. Both were big bodied and legal. Several more showed up. Then, 2 little yearlings walked by about 40 ft from the kitchen. The bottom line is that 11 of them showed up in about a 30 to 40 minute time span. I went on my first deer hunt about 50 years ago and have never seen anything like this.

Oh yeah, hunted there this morning and saw nothing. One buck, legal and big bodied but had spindly antlers showed up this afternoon. Again, I was working on a chain saw and not hunting. Had I been there, I would have gotten busted. It walked right by the chair I sat in this morning. I wouldn't have gotten a shot had I wanted it.

Sounds like a lot of future prospects. Very nice!

I love days like that.

This was my first

Geeze Dave! What a story.



That would make you 97 years of age!
I always thought you were a little older than me.

I don't take any antlered deer. But, I've missed the last two weekends that were antlerless in our county. I'm not even sure how many I could have taken. I just didn't have time to butcher them.

We have been having herds of deer in our side yard, back yard, and by both ponds for the last few weeks. All antlerless. Two big does were looking at me through the kitchen window yesterday morning as I was making my coffee. Now and then I see a buck or two, but they don't count.

I was supposed to be headed to our snowbird home yesterday, but because of weather, I still haven't gone. Had I known I'd be stuck here, I'd have taken a deer or two in the last couple of days.

I'm going fishing. The boat and trailer are hooked up and ready to go. I expect to pull out by dawn tomorrow. The Spanish mackerel, flounder, blues, and drum are on their way south and grabbing anything that gets in their way.

My grandson-in-law will be hunting our WV place this month.

Well, I have never had a day like that but I did shoot the biggest of my lifetime so far.

That is a great 10.

Nice deer! Do I count 12? Have you got a rough score on it? I have seen no shooter bucks yet, which is typical for me this early.

That's a nice one. congrats!

Dave,

Our buck to doe ratio right now seems close to 1:1. I don't ever remember it being like that. We have also seen 4 big bucks this month. Those 4 are in the top 5 biggest ones since we have had game cameras out.

Chris, this is the first year that I HAVEN'T seen big bucks on the cams early. When the rut kicks in, I seldom even see pics of them.

Nice!! Congrats!

He is a big 12. I won't have him scored or anything like that. I am just a meat hunter who gets lucky and shoots the occasional nice buck. Thanks for all the compliments.

Very nice on all counts!

Got me a 12pt mainframe a few years back with 3 additional barely scorable stickers. I have a friend that scores them for me. Just part of the fun. Still hoping to break 170 some day. Indiana sure has an improving deer herd. Was not happy with the 1-buck rule when it first came out, but it may be partly responsible for more bucks reaching trophy size.

Nice Dave....!!!

7-8 years ago I took some friends out to the ranch during a drought. We were working on an old jeep making all kinds of racket and mule deer bucks were walking through or at the edge of camp going to the water hole 50 yards away. Six bucks in total. Even when we were driving through the pastures the mule deer does ignored us.









Did I mention mule deer season had closed 4 days earlier.

This forum may not be the place to ask but with lots of land owners here then maybe someone can help me out. And this thread is talking of deer so here is the question. How do you count your Buck Doe ratio? For me, I'm not sure how to figure the correct way. Let say I have 25 doe in 175 acres for most if not all of the year. Of course some will slip over to the neighbors place but they will move back and forth most everyday because I have around 12 to 15 acres of year round wildlife food plots and water (pond and bayou) and cover. The bucks count will be somewhere in the 10 to 12 range with some mature and some yoy. So I am thinking two does to one buck, but what about the non resident bucks that travel through the place during the rut? I will see an additional 10 bucks that will show up (based on cameras) and sighting , and maybe more. Do I count those bucks in the ratio? I think they have to be counted as they will stay for weeks at a time and late season they will stay for a month or two. And maybe this will help answer. TP&W has set the harvest at two does and two bucks( at 13" or better spread, outside the ears) does can only be hunted during archery season and the first two weeks of gun season. And with that I don't think we have excess numbers of doe here.

Your thoughts on this

You ask a great question. I must say that I guestamate based on sightings since I spent a lot of time hunting. Part of that estimate is based on if I see small bucks trailing does unmolested by mature bucks during the rut. Not very quantitative, but my goal is to have mature trophy bucks siring next years fawns. If I see immature bucks getting a pass on open does, then I need to remove more does. Indiana has a liberal doe quota but only one antlered buck. This helps with managing for trophy bucks.

I do my estimating by game cams

I think sighting while hunting or trail cams can both work. I have only a single trail cam, see more deer than I capture on that cam, and have always seen the bucks that I get pictures of, but have shot several nice bucks that I never caught on the cam. The difficulty is that bias creeps in when you can recognize a buck that you have already seen, but not the does. This may subconsciously make you think there are more does than there really are. I also look at the size of the herd once the rut is over and they form large groups. Sometimes, I have seen 4 or 5 immature antlered bucks in a herd of 20 animals. As I have taken more does over the last few years, I see smaller herds with the same number of bucks. This is just a relative measure of herd management rather than an absolute measure. Keeping the herd smaller also means the animals do not need to leave my place in search of food, and the lower density helps prevent disease (so far so good in my area). I do think that the lighter hunting pressure and quantity of good habitat draws in deer from neighboring properties. Of course, during the rut, they run everywhere.

Dave, we also use game cams and have run as many as 12 but we have 6 out now. I don't think game cams picture all the deer because we will see bucks show up that are not in the pics. We study our pics pretty closely and since we bow hunt mostly we see bucks up close or they will show up and we will say, Where did that Buck come from? lol And RAH we are like u when it come to holding as many deer as we can using cover water and food with little hunting pressure. Just not sure of the ratio. Everyone seems to talk of one to one but how do I count? Our Rut looks to run from Mid Nov through early Feb. First chase is on the older mature does and the second rut is when the yearlings reach 50 lbs or so and that is in Jan and Feb. With the rut running this long we will see quite a few bucks with some showing up for the last rut in Jan and stay into March before they disappear. And the resident bucks will show back up. Ha! some I don't think leave at all.

I am shooting for 2:1. I think the coyotes and bobcats help keep the overall population down. I also think they take mostly fawns and weak adults. We have plenty of small game that is probably easier than taking healthy adults deer.

Yotes and bobcats? did I mention I found Mt lion tracks in a food plot year before last? I started carrying a pistol along with my bow after that when going to the blind in the dark. Or have you ever walked back from the blind after dark and herd a pac of yotes near by, I mean close by? That will make my hair stand up.

Coyotes don't bother me, nor do bobcats. If we had bears or cougars, I be packing too. Most dangerous animal in the woods for me are skunks. I've never been sprayed, but I walked through a stream one night coming back from the stand after being chased away from a foot bridge by one.

The only thing that bothers me is my poacher. He's been coming for years and has eluded no flash game cams and me. My biggest problem could happen if I catch him.

I guess I might step on a rattle snake but I don't worry about them.

On several occasions I have walked into a big mess of hogs at night. It's about like walking into a flock of quail. So far, no problems. They have missed me but it can get loud and scary.

The scariest thing happened about 20+ years ago when I and 3 others walked into a bedded herd of elk before dawn. They scattered, running into trees, and it was pretty loud but over in 5 or 6 seconds. Nobody got hurt but one of us had to return to camp due to peeing on himself. That was me.

I'm not frightened by anything in our woods either. It's not because I'm brave, it's because a lifetime spent in these hills and hollers has taught me I have nothing to fear. Unless I'm squirrel hunting, I never carry a gun when I'm out there. I would love to see a bobcat or cougar.

Your trying for a 2 bucks to one doe?

My son had a deer run right at him last year during our shot gun hunt. We were to the right of my boy and watched this deer run right up the game trail crawling. My youngest and I were like WTF and my middle boy shot him right in the chest. Dropped him in his tracks. I am saying him but at the time there was no rack. After closer inspection when field dressing it was a buck with no rack. This buck was so beaten up that his testosterone level had dropped so low that he lost his rack in the first week of December.

Long story long if you have too many bucks its not good for them ether.

A scary time for me was when we were Rattling up bucks once. We rattled up 6 one day. And during this one rattle up, I had a buck come running in all pissed off. He was so close to me I could see the hair standing up on the back of his neck. Like a fighting dog when his hair stands up. Anyway, he almost ran over me and I was just a couple of feet away from him. He was pissed off to say the least. After him seeing me he just made a 20' circle around me till he finally cooled off and then he took off. It all happened so fast I got no shot off and it was a nice buck on a trophy ranch I was invited to. Something I had never seen before at the time and have never seen since. All the other bucks I have rattled up come in at a much more cautious stance.

Two does to one buck: https://www.qdma.com/reality-doebuck-ratios/

Was sitting in a cut spot on the ground inside of a cedar tree last evening. Had an very symmetrical 8-pt come in, just out past the ears. Turned broadside at 20 yards and looked away. Came into 10 yards and looked right at me without busting me (I was up-wind). I had walked right where he came in and his behavior told me he could smell my foot prints. He then turned back and walked back 70 yards and turned into the path where I saw his new scrape while I was walking in. I exited by another route since a couple days earlier, I had a similar experience an hour before I left a tree stand and spooked the buck still by his scrape. It was hard to resist shooting this handsome buck and someone else will probably take him, but it won't be me. He'll be spectacular next year if he makes it, and will hopefully sire more like him in a couple weeks. I accidentally shot a shed buck during muzzleLoader a few years back. He was a big bodied healthy animal.

RAH, thanks for post up the link. It's been awhile since I read that information. makes me feel better about my deer count. Pretty much supported how I figure my ratio

I am a scientist, but wildlife management is my hobby. Sometimes its just more fun to try things that should not work, but could work. Many times these trials fail, but not always. Its just part of the fun. Most of my deer hunting buddies can outshoot me on the range every time, but I have more trophy antlers on the wall. Groups of 3 or 5 shots don't put racks on the wall. Most times, you get one shot and the target does not show up where you planned. I make sure my gun is on, and then I make the shot count. I have made my share of mistakes, but they are fewer and further apart as time goes on.

All I can say is, future prospect to fill the freezers.

Airborn, if ya see and bag one that fine ya don't need to se ANY others. Congrats

Creepy, my oldest son and wife bumped up a big buck last year. He was pawing the ground and grunting at them. They were not there to hunt just out for a 4 wheeler ride and my boy wanted to show my wife the big scrub on the tree. Needless to say it didn't take my wife long to skin out of there.

RAH, I shot a great big doe a few years back in early December during out ML season. Turned out to be a buck that shed early, but his right rear leg was broke, the bone slid up and overlapped each broken end by 1 1/2" and it was knitting back together. He had a 6" dia lump on that leg where it was broke. I didn't see it walk, I turned around and it was standing in the food plot.

Around here, history has shown that if I pass up a good buck wanting to see it get a year more age on it, I never see it again. Someone else most likely shoots it,

The farmer on the adjoining property hates deer, and gets depredation tags every year.

I understand your position on passing nice bucks, but fortunately one of my adjoining neighbors with sizable deer habitat lets a single fellow hunt his place that only shoots a big one or none. He says that after shooting a buck last year, he saw an even bigger one. I got a 9 and 10 on cam running together after the season last year that should both be nice this year if they made it. It took me years to let a big one pass and wait for an older one to come buy. I take mature does for meat and if I don't get a buck, that is OK with me. I am in it for the long haul and am concentrating on herd management.

RAH, I hear you. I'm more a "fill the freezer" type of guy than looking for one to put on the wall. I've passed a number of deer with the thought "I'd love to see him next year" but that rarely happens. 80/160 acres just isn't enough to keep deer on one property, and nobody around here wants to manage deer.

Somebody in the area has to be the first to start managing the herd. Build it and they will come! I have 100 acres of dear habitat and a wall full of respectable racks. This guy was photographed after last season.



Mounted on 6x6s

I know, I know but in the area that I have the best chance of that happening, (habitat wise) it ain't going to happen as long as that farmer owns the land. Every year he complains to the DNR about crop losses, and they issue depredation tags. I talked to the biologist and she said he even has a block of CRP land on his place that attracts deer.......

Best herd reduction method is a lot of doe harvest which is perfect for managing for trophies. May just need to see if you can work with him to get what you both want?

I need to do Coon management at my place. And RAH, what is that thing hanging from the ceiling in the photo? Been trying to figure out what it is. Hornets nest? Some type of flying dinosaur?

Its a metal blue-heron mobile that flaps in the wind. Unfortunately, one of the wings is a casualty of a very strong wind gust that we are still cleaning up after (still works but has a metal tear). Blew the tops out of mature trees all over our place. My son and I will be bringing in logs this late winter and a friend will be bringing in his portable saw mill. We will share the lumber and my son wants to build some furniture with it. We did a piece out of reclaimed oak last year and he really enjoyed it. A chance to pass on some knowledge that my father passed on to me. Every cloud has a silver lining. I would not have been willing to take down some of these cherry, walnut, and hickory trees. Now we'll have some nice wood to work with.

Ah, the annual meat vs.trophy vs.genetics vs.management discussion. Our local feed store just got in their annual shipment of cajun, in-the-shell peanuts. Both are hallmarks of the season in my mind.

Tony, FWIW, a trophy could be a spike to a hunter, just like a big old smart doe could be a trophy.

A number of years ago I had an old doe that was missing her tail bust me one day in the stand, and she led the whole herd of does on a wide path around the stand for weeks. I DID get her finally when she forgot it was gun season instead of archery season. She was a trophy to me because of all the hours I put in on the stand trying to get her.

That is funny. I had a decent doe on camera the year before last that was missing her tail. Last year I didn't hunt that woods much so I didn't mess with the cameras much either so we didn't see her. This year we watched the cameras pretty hard trying to pattern a few deer and that doe is still there but much bigger. I have never seen her from the stand though. Hopefully during gun season she will mess up. I want to have her hide tanned just because it is a little special to me and my daughter thinks she is cool. LOL

For me, a Trophy deer may be a trophy only to me. I hunt or try to hunt older and I don't see very many of those deer. I usually hunt from a tree stand and in doing so I have had many a buck under me for me to just watch and see or learn from. And even when I see the deer I am looking for I may not have the opportunity to take the shot. Things like, he comes up on the wrong side of me (I can't pull and aim with my left arm or left hand). And so now, even more so he becomes my trophy deer. Or like last season while hunting a scrape, there was a beautiful 10 pointer just a few feet away and I could have easily made the shot but he was just 2 and a half yr old or so I thought at the time. He was no doubt a young buck. For aging, I make a fast glance at a deer's neck and then I look fast at the front shoulders. For this buck these were all small sized and his rack had no mass and the antlers were only a 1/2" thick but the rack was high and a perfect 10. For me he was a trophy deer or he will be.

We dropped off a deer at our local wild game butcher yesterday. This past week was the first shotgun hunt for white tail of the year. He had 74 deer brought in this week and my buddy's Adams was the biggest of the year dressed with out head, hide, and gutted at 209#s.

He said that once he had the deer's pajamas off it was heavy with fat. He was the boss in that area and didn't have to fight for does.

Cheers Don.