Been using a sparrow trap to manage an ever booming population of House Sparrows which raid my wild bird feeders and are a general nuisance. House Sparrows are in fact not a sparrow - rather an invasive species of weaver finch introduced from England just like Starlings. They displace our native cavity nesting birds like Eastern and Western Bluebirds - killing adults and brood in the nest, along with Purple Martins and other swallow species. They are not a protected species, and as a wild bird enthusiast, we're encouraged to try and manage the population in any manner possible.
I've used a repeating sparrow trap with good success the past several seasons, however, squirrels and blue jays often rob the trap of feed before I can trap any house sparrows. It's gotten to the point I can no longer use the trap as they are stealing feed faster than I can keep it loaded, so I'm turning to my PB family of inventive DIY experts for a solution.
I would like ideas on how to utilize electricity to euthanize birds either at a feeder or bird bath location. I'd need the option of turning the electricity on with a switch indoors so I don't harm any other species of birds. Maybe a broomstick with two wires running the length, which could be screwed into a floodlight socket outside the home run by an interior switch? When the birds land on the wires, which would have some kind of bait suspended above it, their feet would complete the circuit once I flipped on the switch and they'd be euthanized. I know absolutely nothing about electricity so not sure if this is a sound design or not. Could one electrify a feeder tray made of copper or aluminum and filled with preferred sparrow feed and activated from indoors somehow?
Looking for any ideas here - these vermin are out of control and I'm out of options. My native birds are suffering...need your help.
Not sure I totally understand why you want to kill these little birds? Are they the "wrong kind?" Are they destroying your property? Can you set up additional feeders for all to enjoy? Charlie
My post cites some HOSP characteristics which demonstrate the effect of weaver finches on native birds. For wild bird enthusiasts - they are a major problem as they flock to feeders, prevent access of other species, and consume copious amounts of seed - which is not cheap.
If you would like to understand the effect of non-native invasive species on native species there's several studies performed by Universities, wildlife biologists [white perch, yellow bass, asian carp], horticulturists [parrotfeather, eurasian watermilfoil], and in this case, ornithologists regarding weaver finches and starlings.
I like the double wire idea. I wonder if a fence charger would supply enough current to do the job? As a boy, I found dead squirrels a time or two laying underneath our fence.
I keep envisioning an old Ford Buzz coil, with the wire coming off the secondary. those old 6 volt coils get HOT when you run 12 volts through em'.
I think direct current from the flood light receptacle is the best bet, as I can flip a switch whenever the HOSPs are lined up and feeding. I just need a prototype.
Back when I was a kid the electric fence chargers pulsed and didn't pack enough punch to kill anything I don't think. There was an urban legend back then about peeing on an electric fence that my best buddy and I tested.....the legend is true!
We have had the English sparrow around here as long as I can remember. They have been good bug catchers in the garden and have always been welcome although they tend to take over bird houses that we out up for Purple Martins. They are a cheerful talkative bird. I have never seen them be to aggressive toward other birds and they live here year round . Sorry but I can't see killing them .
My post cites some HOSP characteristics which demonstrate the effect of weaver finches on native birds. For wild bird enthusiasts - they are a major problem as they flock to feeders, prevent access of other species, and consume copious amounts of seed - which is not cheap.
If you would like to understand the effect of non-native invasive species on native species there's several studies performed by Universities, wildlife biologists [white perch, yellow bass, asian carp], horticulturists [parrotfeather, eurasian watermilfoil], and in this case, ornithologists regarding weaver finches and starlings.
Teejay, That's all fine and good. Just asking the question, thats all. Do you think you alone can make that big of an impact on the species? It just sounds like mother nature doing what it does best. Be careful of the electrical element. When my oldest daughter was about 4yrs old, she unknowingly grabbed a hot wire on an electric fence....she's fine, but was not for a time... Charlie
I can't count how many times I've cleaned out a bluebird house where the sparrows had nested right on top of the natives and kicked them out. They do the same to our purple martin house. They also infested our barn until we taught a cat to climb a ladder to get to their nests.
I don't have a good suggestion for eradication. There are certain seeds you can use that they don't like so much. But if you're an avid birder then I assume you already know about those.
I agree on the wire idea, but it obviously will not be selective. Are there opportunities present when only the target species will be affected? As in, are there that many of them to give a reasonable expectation of killing primarily the finches?
No chance of a high powered pellet rifle equipped with decent optics?
I think two wires run parallel to each other, with an air gap of around 1/8", one wire to common, one to hot would probably do it. Wire it into an adapter that screws into the outside floodlight. But you didn't hear it from me.
I can't count how many times I've cleaned out a bluebird house where the sparrows had nested right on top of the natives and kicked them out. They do the same to our purple martin house. They also infested our barn until we taught a cat to climb a ladder to get to their nests.
I don't have a good suggestion for eradication. There are certain seeds you can use that they don't like so much. But if you're an avid birder then I assume you already know about those.
I've found that a few times myself. It's heartbreaking to see the week old bluebirds with their skulls caved in and eyeballs pecked out.
We have had the English sparrow around here as long as I can remember. They have been good bug catchers in the garden and have always been welcome although they tend to take over bird houses that we out up for Purple Martins. They are a cheerful talkative bird. I have never seen them be to aggressive toward other birds and they live here year round . Sorry but I can't see killing them .
Pat W
Not here to convince anyone of the effect of invasive species on natives - thankfully the scientific community has done that legwork.
I can't count how many times I've cleaned out a bluebird house where the sparrows had nested right on top of the natives and kicked them out. They do the same to our purple martin house. They also infested our barn until we taught a cat to climb a ladder to get to their nests.
I don't have a good suggestion for eradication. There are certain seeds you can use that they don't like so much. But if you're an avid birder then I assume you already know about those.
Squirrels have adapted to love black, yellow and white millet, and even stale bread. Trying catfood for a while, but imagine the jays will hammer it.
I agree on the wire idea, but it obviously will not be selective. Are there opportunities present when only the target species will be affected? As in, are there that many of them to give a reasonable expectation of killing primarily the finches?
No chance of a high powered pellet rifle equipped with decent optics?
I think two wires run parallel to each other, with an air gap of around 1/8", one wire to common, one to hot would probably do it. Wire it into an adapter that screws into the outside floodlight. But you didn't hear it from me.
I would never leave a hot wire on, it would be controlled by an interior switch.
Understood, I was curious as to how you would control what species landed on the wire? My luck would have 5 of the target species land, but one desirable species would land along with them, preventing me from throwing the switch? That's why I was wondering if their numbers were so great as to preclude interference by other species.
I can't count how many times I've cleaned out a bluebird house where the sparrows had nested right on top of the natives and kicked them out. They do the same to our purple martin house. They also infested our barn until we taught a cat to climb a ladder to get to their nests.
I don't have a good suggestion for eradication. There are certain seeds you can use that they don't like so much. But if you're an avid birder then I assume you already know about those.
Squirrels have adapted to love black, yellow and white millet, and even stale bread. Trying catfood for a while, but imagine the jays will hammer it.
What about thistle?
Pat, sparrows do their dirty work inside the nests, which might be why you haven't seen it. They crack eggs and kill nestlings to take over nest sites, and this behavior has been well-documented for decades.
Understood, I was curious as to how you would control what species landed on the wire? My luck would have 5 of the target species land, but one desirable species would land along with them, preventing me from throwing the switch? That's why I was wondering if their numbers were so great as to preclude interference by other species.
Great questions T.
HOSP flock, they tend to take over feeding areas. They are easily recognizable, and I've been birding for 20 years so the ID is simple. Ideally I'd like to make the perch small enough for a single bird to fit at a time, which eliminates this issue. Bottom line - you can't throw the switch unless it's 100%.
Also, there are types of seed that only HOSP will readily eat, which can help discourage other birds from the target zone. Popcorn, bread, and especially millet are high on the list of HOSP favorites. Our neighborhood is devoid of any other species of sparrows which could possibly be an ID issue, so that further simplifies the approach.
Might be a good idea to contemplate the shape of the perch, in order to ensure the target falls away and off of, rather than right on top of, the hot zone.
Pellet guns illegal in city limits, and they are exceedingly spooky birds, which scatter whenever a window or door is cracked. I can't help but suspect wild bird enthusiasts collective efforts to manage their populations have rendered surviving adults to be very wily. Bluebirding is popular in NE, and the serious birders seem to have sparrow traps engaged near nest sites. I think a few near misses and escapes educates them quickly.
Might be a good idea to contemplate the shape of the perch, in order to ensure the target falls away and off of, rather than right on top of, the hot zone.
I figured you'd consider that while working the prototype this weekend, Tony.
Been using a sparrow trap to manage an ever booming population of House Sparrows which raid my wild bird feeders and are a general nuisance. House Sparrows are in fact not a sparrow - rather an invasive species of weaver finch introduced from England just like Starlings. They displace our native cavity nesting birds like Eastern and Western Bluebirds - killing adults and brood in the nest, along with Purple Martins and other swallow species. They are not a protected species, and as a wild bird enthusiast, we're encouraged to try and manage the population in any manner possible.
I've used a repeating sparrow trap with good success the past several seasons, however, squirrels and blue jays often rob the trap of feed before I can trap any house sparrows. It's gotten to the point I can no longer use the trap as they are stealing feed faster than I can keep it loaded, so I'm turning to my PB family of inventive DIY experts for a solution.
I would like ideas on how to utilize electricity to euthanize birds either at a feeder or bird bath location. I'd need the option of turning the electricity on with a switch indoors so I don't harm any other species of birds. Maybe a broomstick with two wires running the length, which could be screwed into a floodlight socket outside the home run by an interior switch? When the birds land on the wires, which would have some kind of bait suspended above it, their feet would complete the circuit once I flipped on the switch and they'd be euthanized. I know absolutely nothing about electricity so not sure if this is a sound design or not. Could one electrify a feeder tray made of copper or aluminum and filled with preferred sparrow feed and activated from indoors somehow?
Looking for any ideas here - these vermin are out of control and I'm out of options. My native birds are suffering...need your help.
I personally think feeding birds at all is not a good idea. It creates a larger population that end up depending on the feed. On top of that the more birds you feed the more will hang around and crap all over everything. Jut my opinion of course.
Can you put corn out to distract the squirrels away from your sparrow trap? To me trapping seems like your best option, either you need a better trap or a new way of setting up the one you have. I am skeptical that you can find a way to electrocute sparrows effectively.
Might be a good idea to contemplate the shape of the perch, in order to ensure the target falls away and off of, rather than right on top of, the hot zone.
I figured you'd consider that while working the prototype this weekend, Tony.
Can you put corn out to distract the squirrels away from your sparrow trap? To me trapping seems like your best option, either you need a better trap or a new way of setting up the one you have. I am skeptical that you can find a way to electrocute sparrows effectively.
On high power lines the birds are not grounded. You could hang on one too. They need to stand on both the hot and ground wire to get fried. That is why it was suggested a 1/8 inch spacing between the wires. The bird's feet will be on both at the same time. Have to complete the circuit.
That's what the males look like. I am in TJ's camp. Make 'em disappear. They push out a lot of native birds. They've been around for so long that many people don't realize the problems they cause. Starlings too. Both are on the permanent hit list and get whacked whenever possible. I have more freedom, so the .17 Mach II gets used when they are perching on the martin house - 50 yds from the house. They make good cat food, or catfish bait.
TJ, do the comments that everyone is making sound familiar?
Guys - If you want to disagree with the scientific community on the importance of managing invasive species, I encourage your passion. Author a thesis challenging the position - it's not my obligation to defend science. This post was made under the topic "Wildlife Management" for the purpose of soliciting ideas on management of an invasive species and ways to humanely euthanize them. Pond Boss magazine and the forum routinely deals with feral hogs, bullheads, carp, beavers, muskrats, even LMB etc. trapping and euthanizing - it's an important management topic that effects many of us. It might interest some, and others not so much. I hope those interested will share their ideas and experiences. If you're in the latter group, don't feel obligated to participate in the discussion if it makes you uncomfortable.
Certainly you're entitled to your opinions, whether based on science, emotions, moon phases, or whatever happens to be motivating your feedback. The real head scratcher for me is, why you feel obligated to share your personal opinions with me on the topic? That might be a good topic for a brand new thread! I can assure you, I'm not recruiting others to my cause nor encouraging anyone to manage their own HOSP populations, nor trolling for your approval. I'm merely citing scientific and empirical data as my motivation.
Lastly, Stickem - hey, hate to break it to you, but I've never made a "significant" forum contribution to date - so don't recommend holding your breath. I find consistency is the key.
Wires on a perch will just deter the sparrows. I use an electric fencer. Put the ground on the perch and hot lead near food, and like that hotdog the 2 nails roast things fast. I haven't found a constantly hot fencer unit in a while. The 60 cycle pulse units are higher volts, but lower amps, so a little less lethal.
Rex, I'm putting this on the back burner for now. Shifting my focus to establishing a foundation which will promote the welfare of orphaned feral hogs in Texas.
It's not that we are against taking out critters that cause problems and or damage crops or whatever it's the difference in geography. Here in Texas they have never been known as a problem to anything that I'm aware of. Just never would think of a sparrow as invasive.
Rex, I'm putting this on the back burner for now. Shifting my focus to establishing a foundation which will promote the welfare of orphaned feral hogs in Texas.
I, and I am sure others headed to the conference, will do our best to support your noble philanthropic endeavors TJ. I pledge to do all I can to supply you with as many orphans as possible, even if it means spending my hard earned dollars on more cooler space for the undeserving parents to reside in....
I caught English sparrow's in a wire trap cage to keep them from my Purple Martin house's until one day I asked myself why was one life more important then another in his case. Because a Martin is more fun to watch, prettier or some preconceived thought that I din't like them? Because they are an invasive species? How many years does it take for an invasive species to become a natural species? 100 years? 1000 years? If a sparrow flew south to South America every winter and flew back in the spring would they be considered an invasive species while a Humming bird does this and isn't considered an invasive species?
I put out a dozen blue houses and I get Tree Swallows in half of the and sparrows in half. That's fine. I feed woodpecker with grease and all kinds of other kinds of birds with thistles seed and bird seed and get some sparrows, which is fine also. In my pond area I have a variety of wild foods growing for the birds like Mulberry's, Blackberry's, Raspberry, Silk leaf Dogwood's, Cattail's and more which bring in a large variety of wild birds. I took my sparrow catching cage down.
Guys - If you want to disagree with the scientific community on the importance of managing invasive species, I encourage your passion. Author a thesis challenging the position - it's not my obligation to defend science. This post was made under the topic "Wildlife Management" for the purpose of soliciting ideas on management of an invasive species and ways to humanely euthanize them. Pond Boss magazine and the forum routinely deals with feral hogs, bullheads, carp, beavers, muskrats, even LMB etc. trapping and euthanizing - it's an important management topic that effects many of us. It might interest some, and others not so much. I hope those interested will share their ideas and experiences. If you're in the latter group, don't feel obligated to participate in the discussion if it makes you uncomfortable.
Certainly you're entitled to your opinions, whether based on science, emotions, moon phases, or whatever happens to be motivating your feedback. The real head scratcher for me is, why you feel obligated to share your personal opinions with me on the topic? That might be a good topic for a brand new thread! I can assure you, I'm not recruiting others to my cause nor encouraging anyone to manage their own HOSP populations, nor trolling for your approval. I'm merely citing scientific and empirical data as my motivation.
Lastly, Stickem - hey, hate to break it to you, but I've never made a "significant" forum contribution to date - so don't recommend holding your breath. I find consistency is the key.
TJ, ...I seem to have incited discontent within you...sincerely not my intent. Perhaps you are correct with regards to personal opinion...note well taken. All I ever desired here is to learn about ponds. Respectfully, stickem'
Like Rex, I haven't seen a continuous fence charger in awhile. As a kid, we had a few that had no problem burning an errant weed in two, or apparently killing a squirrel now and then.
Managing a pond, a woodlot, or your own backyard often involves making choices that may not be acceptable to everyone, worldwide. And while I admire the philosophy that says all life is equally valuable, I myself do not share in this belief. I've mentioned before how my upbringing resulted in me learning the importance of having a reason for killing something...profit, protection, and provisions.
These days, most killing I do is in the form of protection. And that's highly interpretative. Some may see a wild area encircling their pond, going back to nature, and simply love it in that form. I see a jungle, overgrown with weeds and undesirable vegetation, and I break out the brushcutter and maybe a chemical or two.
A muskrat swimming across a still pond, returning to a den filled with young ones can be a tranquil sight. But I find it much more pleasing to my soul when the crosshairs of a 3x9 settle on the critter, right where the waterline meets the fur.
Management. I'm willing to bet that we all practice it, in one form or degree.
(The project is on hold? So, laying awake last night thinking about bird zappers has been for naught???)
Naw Tony, was just trying to take the edge off the thread which, for some reason, elicited negative personal narratives questioning the ethics of my management activities. Not to stoke the coals, but in the spirit of full disclosure, I also treat nutsedge and crab grass in my lawn, and spray musk thistle at my farm. The latter of which I'm required to do, by NE law.
In case anyone is curious - standard song birds I attract to my feeders consist of:
Northern Cardinals Bluejays Red bellied and Downy Woodpeckers Northern Flicker Black Capped Chickadees Juncos White and red bellied nuthatches Carolina Wren House Finch Goldfinch Tufted Titmouse White throated Sparrow
A standard tube feeder filled with sunflower hearts or nutrasaff will last 3 weeks feeding these birds.
When a flock of HOSP finds the feeder, they will drain it in a matter of 5-7 days, and due to the sheer numbers restrict or prevent feeding by native birds. HOSP cause fiscal damage in addition to other documented issues. Birders like myself set traps when a new flock [typically 15-20 birds] finds the feeders, and thin the numbers until numbers are more manageable.
JKB can't wait for your feedback. Thanks in advance for your help.
Naw Tony, was just trying to take the edge off the thread which, for some reason, elicited negative personal narratives questioning the ethics of my management activities.
Management activities?
Heck, I read though the whole thread, patiently waiting for the recipe for "Oiseau a la Hudson", cooked to perfection in the green egg.
I'm probably one of the few birders who watches his birds w/a 12 ga or a .22 w/birdshot next to him. I don't enjoy killing invasives, but I acknowledge the numerous benefits of eliminating them. One thing that has drastically reduced their numbers is switching entirely to black oil sunflower seed--no mixes. They mess around some w/suet cakes but nothing like they do w/a mix w/millet or cracked corn. It has certainly not affected either my bird numbers or species. My favorites are rose breasted grosbeaks in season and our resident towhees.
Starlings are hammering my suet cakes...they'll be next on the list, but they're wily. One flies in some day, then returns with the flock the following day. They will clean out a cake in a couple days which would typically last me two months.
HOSP can't crack the shell of black oils, but some of my preferred birds don't like it, either. It's certainly a tradeoff, unless I can thin this recent herd somewhat. Good tips Brook! Thanks.
Dad feeds coarse ground sunflower hearts. He has a tray under the tube feeders. No messy hulls to clean up. You'd be suprised the number of species that have eaten there, even some that weren't supposed to be attracted to the sunflowers.
JKB can't wait for your feedback. Thanks in advance for your help.
Probably won't like my feedback, but I did spend a lot of time on this today.
Making it safe is my number 1 criteria, and, yes you can
Cost will be prohibitive on your part, because we need more than a light socket and switch that you decide to flip at any given time.
Electricity is an Equal Opportunity Killer, it just don't care
Now there is the difference between an engineer, and a hack like myself. The engineer looks for ways to foolproof his design, (as much as can be, anyway) trying his/her best to remove the human element, with their unfortunate tendency for making mistakes, and replacing them with technology.
The hack, (me), says "you need to be smarter than a fencepost to use this thing, capiche?"
JKB can't wait for your feedback. Thanks in advance for your help.
Probably won't like my feedback, but I did spend a lot of time on this today.
Making it safe is my number 1 criteria, and, yes you can
Cost will be prohibitive on your part, because we need more than a light socket and switch that you decide to flip at any given time.
Electricity is an Equal Opportunity Killer, it just don't care
Now there is the difference between an engineer, and a hack like myself. The engineer looks for ways to foolproof his design, (as much as can be, anyway) trying his/her best to remove the human element, with their unfortunate tendency for making mistakes, and replacing them with technology.
The hack, (me), says "you need to be smarter than a fencepost to use this thing, capiche?"
We borrowed the simple design depicted near the bottom of this page; the Starling Stumper . A regular old suet cage with a couple of feet of cheap, lightweight chain (open/close the chain links with pliers). When you put in the suet cake, leave the plastic tray on it like a hat. It won't stop the all of them, but deters most. The remaining peckers, tit mice, nuthatches, etc are very comfortable inverted.
A small solar panel, U1 Lawn mower battery, start capacitor, and a little wiring you could zap a finger off a full grown coon grabbing at your feed if needed for under $50. For another $10, you could add a remote arming/disarming system if you care to be more selective on what goes poof...Definitely lethal, and definitely indiscriminant in what gets fried, so you'd want a way to control what gets hit.
Now there is the difference between an engineer, and a hack like myself. The engineer looks for ways to foolproof his design, (as much as can be, anyway) trying his/her best to remove the human element, with their unfortunate tendency for making mistakes, and replacing them with technology.
The hack, (me), says "you need to be smarter than a fencepost to use this thing, capiche?"
.....so we can infer that you think you're smarter than a hot dog, too?
We borrowed the simple design depicted near the bottom of this page; the Starling Stumper . A regular old suet cage with a couple of feet of cheap, lightweight chain (open/close the chain links with pliers). When you put in the suet cake, leave the plastic tray on it like a hat. It won't stop the all of them, but deters most. The remaining peckers, tit mice, nuthatches, etc are very comfortable inverted.
Thanks Ski...I have a horizontal feeder, and a dual side vertical. The vertical is getting hammered, but it's preferred by all birds. Might just have to sit it a while until the Starlings move on.
teehjaeh57 it was my intention to state another way of looking at wildlife as I experience it and not a degradation of your views. Science is my first love along with the evolution of the universe and earth which has shaped my thoughts over a life time.
Personally, I don't think the word invasive is as descriptive as the word nuisance. Here, Eurasian Dove are classified as invasives, but they don't create a problem for me, so I leave them alone. Gophers on the other hand, are a big problem in this particular area. I've tried every method known to man to remove them, but all that works is strychnine based grain. Am I happy about that? Nope, but I'm less happy about the damage they do, and the annual expensive of treating and dragging pastures to remove them and their damage.
TJ is a long term steward to his property and if House Sparrows, who are classified as invasives, and in his case a nuisance, cause a deterrence to his enjoyment, and or goals, I say go for it. Remove them. That, at least so far, is every property owner's right.
teehjaeh57 it was my intention to state another way of looking at wildlife as I experience it and not a degradation of your views. Science is my first love along with the evolution of the universe and earth which has shaped my thoughts over a life time.
Thanks John, and for the record, I appreciated your thoughtful comments on your original post and didn't feel your comments were derisive. I may one day find myself in your position - for now, however, I'm merely trying to achieve some balance and return to a hobby that sustains me during the long dreary winter months in NE.
I've been following this and believe TJ has about as much chance of excluding sparrows as he does flies.
Management efforts to date, over the past several years, have been pretty successful. After one thins the herd, things are quiet for 3-4 months until another flock moves in. It's not about a permanent solution - it's about temporary relief so I can watch/photograph my native birds before I need to start trapping again. Now that squirrels have rendered my traps ineffective due to bait stealing, I'm looking for a new option.
FWIW IMHO If nothing else, this thread has served to remind me that people have their own opinions on just about everything and that they have a rite to have that opinion. It is when we forget to respect the rite of others to have their own opinions that things go wrong.
A small solar panel, U1 Lawn mower battery, start capacitor, and a little wiring you could zap a finger off a full grown coon grabbing at your feed if needed for under $50. For another $10, you could add a remote arming/disarming system if you care to be more selective on what goes poof...Definitely lethal, and definitely indiscriminant in what gets fried, so you'd want a way to control what gets hit.
Rex, let's talk soon. I like the idea of a battery...sounds a lot simpler than the death ray on which JKB is working.
A small solar panel, U1 Lawn mower battery, start capacitor, and a little wiring you could zap a finger off a full grown coon grabbing at your feed if needed for under $50. For another $10, you could add a remote arming/disarming system if you care to be more selective on what goes poof...Definitely lethal, and definitely indiscriminant in what gets fried, so you'd want a way to control what gets hit.
Rex, let's talk soon. I like the idea of a battery...sounds a lot simpler than the death ray on which JKB is working.
(Not a death ray, that was just a video I found while searching for an existing product to satisfy your wishes)
My first thought was to discharge a capacitor into your feathery pests, but that seemed a tad messy from a control point. Then bounced around the path to ground method, still not to my liking. Next version was completing an open circuit between 2 phases, electric chair style, turn them into a little motor. No ground, no neutral, just 240V. I'm liking that a whole lot better.
Then, I'm calculating potential kill based on various perch designs. During the interim, I'm looking at frequency (Hz). While 60Hz is more than adequate, the lower you go, the more effective. What's the easiest way to lower frequency?, obviously, a VFD. Well, this has 3 phase output, all the better. Now I have 5 potentials rather than 1 with 2 potentials being really imbalanced (I should do a KFC patent search for their extra crispy)
Needless to say, a light switch won't quite do the trick for a control here. Enter a small PLC, you can do amazing things with these.
The theory here is to fire a "One Shot" charge of sufficient duration while the pest is between 2 phases. Have to add some redundancy on the output so a pair of force guided relays fired from isolated daisy chained outputs from the PLC. 2 outputs per relay, that should be sufficient.
Inquiring minds want to know, so we put current transducers on each leg (output wire) to measure the current consumed with the shot. Another task for the CT's is if after firing the shot and I'm still seeing current flow, I can just blow the circuit breakers. (that sounded more manly than saying I'll just trip the STO)
Well, if you are measuring something, ya might as well data log it. Just goes hand in hand. Nice thing, is a lot of this stuff has web servers. You would want to get the right one tho.
Let's say, TJ has a decent wireless network at his place. He's out mulling about his property doing chores, or whatever. He sees one of these pests where he want's them, by design. Damn button to fire this is in the house tho, and it's a long run. Could be some really good exorcize, but by the time you get there, the pest has moved on. You're a tad out of breath and disappointed at the same time. May as well sit down for a minute and catch your breath, re-plan strategy.
Enter, the smart phone. It's on your wireless network, right? Open a browser, preferably Safari or Chrome. Enter the IP address of the web server and bookmark the remote view page, by design. A button will show up, along with other stuff, if you wish. Touch the button
People always freak out, in their own way, when I put the control of machinery on their cell phone. I never leave it there and always disable the feature after the dog and pony show. A couple weeks ago I put the control of a robotic welding cell that I just built on this dudes phone. Gave him some instructions and within a minute or so, he was running it from his phone. He said, no way!, this is freaky! Yep, and it's getting disabled. Just wanted to show you this.
Although, having a pest between 2 phases, by design, and firing a shot, would be more fun than TJ can handle. I'm just wondering what the possibilities of picking up a signal thru the conductors are. Determine pest location and which conductors it's presently in contact with. Getting to "AUTO MODE" could be a challenge.
Ya see, I'm kinda thinking in the direction of rodents here as well. Everyone want's to build a better mouse trap. What better way than to Zap them?
Sparrow & Starling bird trap. 20 years ago when I had my Martin house and was trying to get rid of sparrows I came across a large bird trap with no moving parts that was made of screen with or hardware cloth. I tried to find this on the internet but couldn’t. The pictures showed hundreds of dead birds in it, and may have been 10 to 20 feet wide. When you catch a sparrow they are dead within 24 hours, so how they cleaned this trap I don’t know.
Anyway I am guessing it is based on this principle. When a bird tries to escape it flies upward. So think of a garage with the door up. The door forms a shelf about 18 inches from the ceiling. When a bird flies into my garage they hardly ever fly out the door opening but fly up higher and light on the door self. I usually have to get my fish landing net and chase them around the garage catching them to get them out. Using this same principle you might drive 4 fence posts in a rectangle, rap around three sides with cloth screening leaving the 4 side open. Then make a shelf of screen maybe half way down the opening and running back maybe a 4th of the way to the back. Then put a cloth ceiling to enclose it. Put seeds on the gound. The drawing won't display right. Take away the dots in you mind and you see the trap. Just an idea.
I---------------I I........BIRDS.I I.........------I I I---------------I
I keep envisioning an old Ford Buzz coil, with the wire coming off the secondary. those old 6 volt coils get HOT when you run 12 volts through em'.
So was this. A 12 volt battery, and some old school analog technology (yikes, moving parts!?!) and you have a dead bird. Might even incorporate a relay and some old garage door opener components I have lying around, and have the thing become wireless.
It wouldn't feature DNA sampling, however. After sugar season, maybe I'll throw it together and post a vid.
I keep envisioning an old Ford Buzz coil, with the wire coming off the secondary. those old 6 volt coils get HOT when you run 12 volts through em'.
So was this. A 12 volt battery, and some old school analog technology (yikes, moving parts!?!) and you have a dead bird. Might even incorporate a relay and some old garage door opener components I have lying around, and have the thing become wireless.
It wouldn't feature DNA sampling, however. After sugar season, maybe I'll throw it together and post a vid.
That would be cool spark. Let's see it in action.
I have no beef with birds. It's those darn pesky red squirrels and chipmunks that are causing damage.
My dad shoots them when he can, but think zapping them would be far more effective.
I did forget about using an induction coil in my quick description of a zapper. I built a couple of these units for varmint guards on my deer feeders using a small capacitor and alternating hot/grounded wire bars around the feed slinger. Kind of entertaining to see how far squirrels and raccoons will fly when shocked hard. The high voltage (20k+) will let the shock reach out and penetrate a beak or fur, but it's the amps delivered that will stop the heart.
TJ, we had a flock of pine siskens at the feeder today, one redwing black bird and one morning dove. It is a little early for the redwing and the dove. We also had the usual juncos, bluejays, house sparrows and other stuff. Our resident sharp shin might have got one of the bluejays this morning.
JKB, are the squirrels chewing through something vital?
They seem to like plastic and rubber for some reason. Hydraulic hose on the FEL was chewed thru. Went to get diesel for the tractor and the can had holes chewed in it. Gas tank on the generator has a hole chewed in it. I thought it may be chipmunks, but esshup said it sounds like red squirrels. I haven't inspected for further squirrel damage, but expect to find some more.
The chipmunks and mice have been the real pests. I've had a lot of stuff stored in this location and they just get into everything. Literally have had thousands in damage from these.
Victor makes some electric pest zappers, so probably go that route.
Reports are they also work with squirrels.
I was talking to a friend of mine and he had a red squirrel chew into his attic. It was just making a mess. He finally trapped it live, then covered the entrance with some plywood. His girlfriend convinced him to release it out back. He said that within an hour or so, that sucker was back in the attic. He trapped it again, then told his girlfriend he was going to take it to a wooded area a ways away and let it go. She was happy, and what she don't know, won't hurt her
Said dude, ya broke a cardinal rule here He said I don't care! That sucker was mean, and I wasn't wasting any more time.
Man I would love to have one of those in the jumbo size for coyotes! Not sure how to get them to walk thru it though....don't think baiting would work as they are currently living the good life off the deer here!
The videos are a bit misleading at first. You think that initial zap is what kills them. Well, it just stuns them, it's still pumping juice for 2 more minutes. If you took that rat out right after the zap, it could possibly recover and walk away.
Hmm, surprised I missed this thread. High Voltage was a specialty of mine since I was a kid. In order to safely and humanely kill a bird, you would need to charge up a HV capacitor of at least 1uF to 20KV. You need quick instantaneous power to stop the heart and nervous system. The vidoes are showing this done wrong as they are just cooking the victim.
You can accomplish this using a microwave transformer and rectifier diode plus storage capacitor. Not quite as high voltage, but still plenty. Best is to use a old TV horizontal transformer, oscillator, and rectifier.
The other problem is directing the current through the heart and preferably the brain too. Zap the brain and there is no suffering. So, wire at head level while feeding, screen mesh for feet. If properly done, the horror will be the feet would be blown clean off. The bird will never feel a thing since it will just stop everything.
Horribly dangerous as all heck though. It will easily kill you too, so not the best solution.
Best solution? Stop using bird feed and the bird feeder, and start a seed plot with wildflowers instead. When I stop feeding, those nasty little buggers go away. I stop feeding in early spring so my bluebirds have a leg up And the house sparrows leave. I now only feed when there is snow cover or ice.
Pretty interesting if you read the patents for these devices, and they go back to 1908. I didn't read all of them, but the zapper in the video references the 1908 patent. It also claimed the rights to a patent by someone else that expired in the 70's. You don't pay, your patent is up for grabs. Patents are pretty boring to read after a while due to legal phrasing. Just get to the point!
Anyway, the device measures resistance of the rodent thru the conductors. Once this is confirmed, it fires a 7500V shot that goes thru a PTO (Pulse Train Output) for specific duration and dwell.
Essentially, the rat is getting zapped, not continuous, but in the 2 minutes, it's getting zapped over 28,000 times. Stopping the heart also depends where the heart is in it's beat cycle. I guess pounding it this way, kinda insures you're gonna poke it correctly.
