I ordered 30 tilapia from Rainman Rex. He shipped 40 from St. Louis on Tuesday evening. They arrived FEDEX ground early this afternoon (Thursday). No morts when I opened the box, although I did end up losing two. Not sure why, but still that is pretty darn good. They are all about 2 inches, although the morts were probably the two smallest, at maybe 1-1/2 inches.

I've now got 19 each in two 10 gallon aquariums that I filled with pond water last night. I also added "pure" non-iodized table salt. Both have filters and large airstones suitable for 40 gallon aquariums.

I plan to let them grow a little in the aquariums, then I'll probably put them either in a cage or in the aquaponics tank till they are big enough to safely release in the ponds.

I ground up some pellets, which they didn't care for. But, then I put some whole pellets in, and they went nuts -- sucking them in like little vacuum cleaners. The pellets barely fit in through their lips. I figure they'll grow pretty fast if they continue to eat like that.

Be sure to do water changes as the bio-filtration might not be built up yet since you just filed the tanks. The nitrates/nitrites could spike and poison them. Using pond water might help jump start that as it probably had some beneficial bacteria in it but usually you want to age a filtration system a little before loading it with fish. Especially if you are feeding a lot.

Cat....I fed them 5D04 (AQ400)...switch to 5D09 (dense4000) at about 5 inches.

They are intentionally kept nearly starved here and are about 5-6 months old...bump up water temp to 84, feed as often and much as possible and growth will be explosive...probably in excess of 1.5 inch per week.

You will quickly get used to how aggressively they feed and if you see any sign of disinterest in food....change all your water at least once...twice is better. You can kill them 4-5 times before it sticks!

PS..I guess I can't count...thought I sent 42...lol

I think Ken knows about that. He's been there done that right Ken?

Rex -- I too could have easily miscounted. I just know you sent me more than the 30 that I ordered. Trying to count them is harder than counting my chickens and guineas. Even when transferring using a small aquarium net, it is hard to tell if there are 4,5, or 6 fish in the net. I don't ever touch the fish or the net when I move small fish -- except for fatheads and creek chubs that get used for catfish bait. That makes it easier to miscount.

I figure I'll keep them in the aquariums for the next several days. I went down to the barn and found that I've got several rolls of good plastic netting with 1/2 inch octagonal holes. Normally I wouldn't use this for fish cages because it closes up with algae too quickly. But, I think I'll build two small cages with it, and get the tilapia into them early next week before I head out of town for a few days.

If the fish grow anywhere close to the 1.5 inches a week you mentioned, I'm going to be really happy. Heck, I'll be happy with even a half-inch per week. Right now, I'm using 38% protein "Lil Strike" 1/8-inch pellets. Once they soften just a little bit in the water, even the smaller tilapia are able to suck the pellets in.

Bobby -- In the meantime, I plan to change out 1/3 of the water each morning with pond water. I'll also be be checking aquarium nitrites/nitrates and pH late every afternoon. While in the aquariums, I'll probably only feed once a day.

A few years back I started using pond or stream water in my aquaponics tank and in my bait minnow tank. That pretty much eliminates "cycling." I started up my IBC aquaculture tank several weeks ago, filling it with 275 gallons of stream water with my trash pump. I also added a shovel full of fresh chicken manure. The water was near perfect, so I added bluegill and fatheads the next day. The water came it with a pH of 6.7-6.8, and within a day of adding the fish, it stabilized at 7.0, where it has remained. There has not been an ammonia spike. The fish are thriving. I put in tomato, pepper, cucumber, squash, lettuce, and spinach plants from my hoop house when I added the fish. The plants are growing like crazy. I'm now just checking the water once a week.


Cecil -- Hopefully, I won't make any stupid mistakes. If they make it, I need to re-read all your RAS stuff in Pond Boss and here on the site so I can bring some in for the winter.

(Last week, when I found my HBG were having lots of babies in my year-old, put-and-take pond, I read and re-read Cody's Pond Boss series about raising smallmouth bass in ponds like mine. It certainly makes me glad I found this site and the Magazine many years ago.)

Thanks all,
Ken

An inch-and-a-half PER WEEK?

Ken:

I now why they died. When you opened the box, they saw you and your reputation for eating all sorts of things had circulated around. They figured they were toast anyway, so they ended things quickly.

I figured adding established water would help a lot....
Just thought I would put that out there just in case...I have killed lots of fish that way over the years..

I Once owned a seafood market and had a lobster tank. when I set it up I went to the beach and got the water instead of making new water. never cycled it and never had an issue.

Tony -- I'm not going to rule it out. These things seem to be more food vicious than HBG. Even at two inches, if these were fish with teeth like piranha, I'd never stick a finger in the aquariums.




Scott - Yeah, you are probably right -- or, it could just be my bearded appearance in bib overalls. But, come mid-to-late September I hope to invite many of them for a nice dinner.

I still don't know much about tilapia, but I recently read that some spawn every 21 days. Yeesh, that is a lot of babies.

I'm really looking forward to these things.

HYBRID STRIPED BASS from Rex. Several years ago I got some monstrous 18-20 inch rainbow trout, and some 6-7 inch hybrid striped bass from Rex. The trout did fantastic. Only a few HSB seemed to survive. I'm not sure how many survived, but there are at least three, and probably five, in my 0.7 acre pond. In the last couple of weeks I've hooked two of what I believe are HSB that have become humongous. It happened when I've been bluegill fishing with small jigs on an ultralight with 4# test. All I see is a big white/silver streak that strips line off my reel until it gets tangled in heavy structure, when my only choice is to break my line.

If it weren't for Pond Boss, I'm not sure I'd ever have known about HBG, HSB, tilapia, and many other fun and wonderful things.

Thanks Bobby,

I can't remember who regularly says that you can't be successful until you kill thousands of fish -- Lusk, Cecil, or some other Pond Boss friend?

Unfortunately, I think I too have be pretty darn successful!

^^^Pond Boss is an awesome tool^^^!!!

Didn't mean you made any stupid mistakes. However I don't understand why you are doing all these water changes, when if you cycle your system with ammonia before you put your fish in, you're good to go. Adding lots of fresh water seems to defeat the purpose of recirculating to me. Or maybe I'm missing something?

I've also never been a fan of adding pond water. All kinds of parasitic critters can be added. My systems are all well water initially.

It could be the filter system.... Maybe not enough bacteria or water flow?....to many fish in the system?...or even to much food...

Cecil, I agree with the well water system...Pure water but not much oxygen (and cold).

Rainman! Rainman!

My HSB and YP are hogs. Thanks again Rex!

Not system. Just adding well water initially instead of pond or stream water. Easy to aerate and with the small amount of water needed for a very small water change and evaporation it doesn't matter. I'll be using rainwater soon for the aquaponics at least in part by adding a 55 gallon drum to two of my eve spouts.

I.e. I have iron issues but if I do a 10 percent water change very infrequently that drops the 2.5 mg/l iron to .25 mg/l iron. Iron won't be a problem anyway with aquaponics as many operators add iron for the plants.

Ken, my HSB supplier said that if I knew of any clients or pay lakes that wanted some, he had HSB that were in the 15# range for stocking.......

I don't even wanna think how much $$$ they would be!

Ain't that the truth.

I didn't even bother to ask.

REX,

So what size tank would I need to put these in and how often would they need to be feed to get this sort of growth?

Also since these are already 5-6 months old should they start spawning soon or how long would I have to wait to get the first spawn from them?

Thanks

spawning is a combination of age, size and conditions...they will spawn quickly if all conditions are acceptable....tank size is directly proportional to your experience, goals, physical and monetary capabilities and filtration capacity.

With Blue Tilapia more than most fish, tank size is far less important than optimum water quality. Tilapia are commercially grown in stocking densities as high as 5 pounds fish per gallon of water using intensive recirc setups with massive, computer controlled filtration/water replacement systems.

per week! These things go from egg to 1.5 POUNDS in an average 7 months with good temps, food and water quality.

1# pond stockers are often harvested from ponds in the fall pushing 5#.

Length increase slows and girth increase begins around 6-8 inches...

Ken...in a "green water" system such as a fertilized IBC, the Tilapia and ammonia balances pretty quickly with the algae being the substrate for beneficial bacteria, however with tank reproduction, fish rarely grow larger than 3/4#.

I was never a fan of any "partial" water changes as they cause a lot of stress. I change all water when needed. IF there is a water quality issue, I try to eliminate it and not dilute it. Frequent, partial water changes were "suggested" by the aquarium industry to increase chemical sales and promulgated by many because it "seemed" to make sense.

Glad to hear it!! Now you know why I only use these YP to fill orders...they're awesome!

What are some recommended options on water changes when your city water if full of chloramine?

If the fish are grown out to be stocked into ponds for algae control and forage it may not be an issue to use a chemical to neutralize it.

On the other hand if I plan to consume them as well I may want to go another route if possible and use something that is not toxic to humans.

Please any suggestions you have would be helpful.

Thanks

I prefer municipal water in holding my fish...I use SeaChem "Prime" and API "Stress Coat" dechlorinators. If simply adding water, I don't bother using any dechlorinator at all (2 gallons added to 125 gallon tank. If you know your local supply has chlorine, you can use sodium thiosulfate....if chloramine, you need special chemicals like the Prime and Stress Coat.

The one thing I like about the municipal water at one of the schools I set up is a lack of iron. And like you say it's easy to neuturalize the chlorine for make up water. Even aeration works if you're patient for a day or so.

Only concern I have is a build up of fluoride in the system and plants over time.After doing a lot of reading I question why it's really added, and the amounts vary from municipal water system to system. In fact it's all over the place!

Cecil, do you have a tester for the fluridone, or do you just have to take their word that it's "x" amount? How much build up is considered a problem, and how fast does it accumulate?

I started to get concerned about the ammonia level yesterday in each of the aquariums. It was at about 1.5 ppm. So, I quickly made a cage with plastic hardware cloth. About 24 inch diameter and 36 inches deep. I'll post a photo a little later.

I left six tilapia in each tank and put 26 in the new cage, which is floating at the end of my dock. The pond temp was at 74 degrees last night.

So far, so good. The ammonia in the aquariums was barely measurable this morning. The aquarium fish will get moved to the IBC aquaponics system at my son's house in the next few days.

Good save!

No tester but I know the water treatment plant in Syracuse adds it to the water.

As far as how much build up is a problem and how fast it accumulates it's hard to say as the sources I read don't agree with each other.

I do know it's very difficult to remove from water as the only thing that will remove it is charred bone according to the sources I read.

When using these products are the fish safe for us to consume?

Where would you recommend I purchase these items as I know for sure we have switched from chlorine to chloramine.

Thanks

You can destroy chloramines with ascorbic acid (vitamin C). I crush up one 500mg capsule per 50 gallons of water. It's an acid so obviosuly expect it to lower your ph. However, I dont usually notice a significant change.


Since noone should trust what random guy says on the internet.. If you want to verify that approach the best documentation is foudn when looking for ways to prepare municipal water for medical uses.

also wiki confirms it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chloramine#Ascorbic_acid
Ascorbic acid and sodium ascorbate completely neutralizes both chlorine and chloramines but degrades in a day or two which only make it usable for short-term applications; SFPUC determined that 1000 mg of Vitamin C (tablets purchased in a grocery store, crushed and mixed in with the bath water) remove chloramine completely in a medium size bathtub without significantly depressing pH.[14][15]


I try to avoid the store bought dechlorinating chemicals on fish i plan to eat.

brian

As of two days ago, I had six each of my new tilapia, in two 10 gallon aquariums. Six got transferred into my aquaponics tank yesterday morning, along with six 5-7 inch bluegill. (there were already some bluegill and fatheads in the tank -- more later.)

After I removed six of the tilapia from the one aquarium, I noticed that two tilapia in the other aquarium appeared to be romantically involved. I removed the other four and put them in the empty aquarium. All of these fish had grown to about 3 inches.

As of last night, the pea gravel in the aquarium with the romantics had one big excavation (about 3-inch diameter) down to the bottom of the aquarium. This morning, there was a second excavation that was about 2 inches in diameter. They appeared to be spawning, but I never saw any eggs or milt. They both have had long strings, that look much like thin dental floss, hanging from their bottoms. It eventually breaks off. As of tonight, both were vigorously eating pellets.

To prevent the eggs, yolk sacs, etc, from being sucked up, I've turned off the circulating water filter. Only the aerator is running in the tank.

I guess the bottom line question is -- have these two tilapia spawned? Is it possible I chose two alternate life-stylers who will not produced any offspring. How long before I may see results?

I'm pretty sure that female tilapia will not eat while holding eggs or fry in their mouth. Males will "mouth" fight. But they might be getting ready to spawn. Its dang near impossible to tell the difference between male and female tilapia. From what I've seen, the males turn lighter and brighter than females during the spawn....But I'm not a tilapia expert.

Good luck on your spawn!!!

Only the males make nests and usually only 1. It's possible you have two males? The strings are normal fish poo. Equal sized males do kind of jockey for position doing kind of stare downs with open mouths.


Hang loose is correct that the females will not eat when holding eggs.

If you do have a male and a female, Getting the other fish out of the tank at that stage may have stressed them to not consummate. But they will calm down in a few days. Generally other fish in the tank are good in that they distrubute male aggression better. You dont need to worry about other fish until after the female is carrying the fry. You just have to be concerned about fry mortality once they are released.


Yes it is possible for a female to not like the male and not want to participate.

brian

Thanks guys. That is exactly what I needed to know.

I chose these two out of the six in the aquarium because they were very friendly to each other, and one of them was excavating the nest. The second nest got covered in yesterday. The other four fish were rather aggressive towards these two, so that is why I chose these two.

There obviously was not a spawn, as both fish are still eating voraciously.

I'm now thinking of introducing two additional fish to the tank to increase my chances of success.

I've looked at a number of the tilapia, and I from the reading I've done, I cannot see anything to differentiate a male from a female.

I thought I had 2 kissing Gourami in my pond the other day. Now I know why.

Grabbed from the internet:

It is difficult to differentiate male and female tilapia when they are young (less than 3-4"). When the fish are larger, they can be separated by inspecting the genital papilla on the ventral or underside of the fish. The papilla of the male tends to be elongated with one opening. The papilla of the female tends to be wider, and has two openings, one of which is a transverse slit.

Scott -- I found something similar. My fish are now between 3-4 inches. The instruction I found said to very gently pull a tooth pick across that area. It said that you should be able to feel two very small indentations, very close to each other on the females, but only one on the male. I couldn't find any differences.

I added three more fish to the tank. That puts five in the tank. I'll see what happens. If I again start to see what appears to be spawning activity, I'll move the non-breeders out.

There is a lot of aggression amongst a few of them right now.

From reading Bcottons thread, he eluded to the fact its good to have 5-6 females to the one male in a 55 gal tank. That way he can't bully them so bad. Then when they get done breeding, immediately take out the male so he doesn't kill off the female. I think Rainman also has mentioned that the male will kill the female afterwards if she is still around.

fish,

the male can if it's only 1 other but if there are 6 of them they will school for protection.

Hides like terra cotta pots and 3" pvc pieces help with line of sight as well.


brian

I have to disagree bcotton.....the male is very aggressive and the larger it gets, the larger area from the nest it will defend. Also, females will eagerly attack a weakened, fry/egg holding female.

Using structure, like fake plant mats and pvc pipe lying perpendicular to the male's nest in order to hide from his (and other female's) sight prevents undue fish handling and mortality.

Tilapia can kill one another in a single blow by bruising the gills.

Rainman, what are your thoughts on the male tilapias colors getting lighter and brighter when the "photo period" begins to get longer? Guys, i'm talking about the sun being out longer.

Mark...That varies widely when it comes to colorations. Dominant males in my clear, filtered water aquariums would get very colorless on their bodies while getting very dark fin tips and throats. In ponds with decent algae blooms or even some darker, deeper waters, males often get very bright red color in the tail and margins between fin spines and also the body sides will darken.

In both settings, female color changes will vary widely and cuckold males will take on the female colorations.

Rex, so its still a 50-50 shot . I've seen some that the top of the head (forehead) has turned an orangeish to a pink coloring. Plus the fins.

By the way, good luck in Bowling Green....They're kinda strict up there .

This is a great informational thread about tilapia spawning.

As mentioned above, I think I have a breeding pair of blue tilapia in a 10 gallon aquarium. I initially placed six tilapia, each about 2-inches, in this tank. They quickly grew to 3-4 inches. Two looked like they had paired up. A nest was built. I removed the other four that I felt were not part of this pair.

One of this remaining pair had a very red breast and other red on its body and fins. The other fish of this pair remained rather bland. Both are about four inches. Of the other four in this tanak, there were a couple of others that had a lot of red on their bodies, but they were far from dominant. They were segregated to corners of the aquarium before being removed.

The two that I figured were a breeding pair seemed to start a spawning cycle several days ago. A nest was dug in the bottom of the aquarium -- down to bare glass at the bottom of the aquarium. The sides are now about three inches high.

These two fish have stayed very close together, while the other four fish in the aquarium were very aggressively pushed off by what I figured was the male of this pair. I removed the other four fish from the tank, and put them in my aquaculture tank.

These two dug another nest, but then it became one big nest.

Although it looked like these two were spawning, I saw nothing that convinced me they were spawning. What I thought was the female, has kept eating voraciously. I thought maybe I had two males.

I don't know what small tilapia eggs look like, or if they are so small that I can't see them. I don't know what the milt looks like, if identifiable in water.

This morning I added three to this aquarium from a cage in my pond. I did this because I thought it was possible I had two males in the aquarium. Of those added, two of the three were the same size as the two in the aquarium. The third was somewhat smaller.

All three of the introduced fish were much darker in color than the original aquarium residents. I was worried about the smallest tilipia because it stayed vertical against the pond heater, in the upsweep of bubbles from the airstone. I took it out and put it back in the pond cage.

The other two introduced fish attempted to move around the aquarium, but what I believe are the breeding pair, really intimidated these other two. The newly introduced tilapia have basically hidden all day behind the heater and filter in the aquarium.

I'm still thinking I have a breeding pair that continue to make me think they are spawning. Yet, I'm not seeing anything that makes me think they are laying and fertilizing eggs.

One goes into the nest and leaves. The other goes into the nest and leaves. Sometimes they'll be next to each other in the nest at the same time. The first one then goes back into the nest and appears to suck the bottom. I cannot see anything in the nest, nor anything coming out of either fish.

As of earlier this afternoon, all of the fish were eating voraciously.

Will I ever be a tilipia grandparent?

Whats your water temp? And also Rainman has some excellent videos of tilapia spawning on youtube. Hope I'm not in trouble for mentioning that .

Unless you catch them in the act you may miss it. They lay the eggs pretty quick males fertilize and she picks them back up.

I have yet to see it but I had many sets of fry last summer and lost many eggs when netting the female and they spit them out.

I hope you see them soon and can give us an update.

Thanks

Cat, the eggs are white and about the size of millet seeds. It is very rare a nest building male will tolerate any fish other than a "ready to lay" female near the nest. At 4", if you catch the female in the act, the 200 or so eggs a 4" fish will lay are easily visible. I only watched the one spawn and video taped it. All other times, I would see females holding eggs and would wait 10 more days to strip the hatched fry from her and move them to a 10g aquarium with filter sponge wrapped around the external filter intake tube to prevent fry being sucked into the filter and growing there.

Ok the Tilapia we purchased this year were not as large as the ones we got last year so I have they work out.

I kept some of the smaller fish and put them in my tank. They ranged from 3-7 inches.

What size should I expect these fish to be in say 3-4 months from now?


We were told they start spawning at 4 inches but I have not seen any signs that they have.

How big were the fish you purchased last year, and how large did they get?

If you have the same biomass, and are feeding the same, I'd expect about the same growth.

I gave up being a voyeur. They just wouldn't perform.

All the fish went into the ponds and the aquaponics tank.

We'll see what happens. The FHMs in the aquaponics tank have done their thing. Hopefully, the tilapia will get the same urge.

Last year they were half pound to 2 pounds, most went into ponds but saved a few. They were busy spawning most summer so maybe that made a difference in their growth.

I also only fed them around 2-5 times a day.

This year I want to add a feeder and try to feed them smaller amounts every 1-2 hours between the times of 6am-9pm.

They have been eating like crazy so maybe if they get to eat more often I can get some over a pound or so.

Rex is definitely a master breeder when it comes to his tilapia. I have to bow down and acknowledge his abilities in optimizing his species of specialty. By the way Rex, 1.5lbs of weight gain in 6 months is considered as optimal growth. However, you can actually push the envelop to 2.5lbs in 7 months when the "perfect conditions" present themselves. I've finally have that chance to see that perfect conditions in motion this past year.

I hope to get a few spawns this year so I can move them to a pond that is void of any fish. We want to experiment with it with some Tilapia from fry-fingerling stage with a feeder setup to see how large we can get them before it gets too cold to kill them.

My dad is worried about how we will get them out, I said we can try a few netting options such as Fyke, Throw, Seine as well as snag what we can. We could even go as far as draining it down since it is not that deep nor would we be killing anything anyway.

Use floor scrubber pads and poultry netting with air coming up from the bottom. Worked for two years now.