I casted a small rattle trap around, I caught a couple big BREAM, one Warmouth. I also Jumped two Tarpon, one broke me off after three sky high leaps the other just spit the hook durning a 3 feet flipping jump. I saw the broke off fish jumping a few times later on trying to get my lure out. Hope it falls out and it can contue eating.
Very cool. Tarpon are such a fun fish to watch break water.
My ponds are so small and narrow that if i had fish in there that jumped as high and far as a tarpon, I would end up with lots of fish on my food plots!
Another Tarpon update...I released some mullet into the pond this evening. They were swimming in a small school across the middle of the pond right on the surface. I tarpon launched itself into the air snagging one on its way up...it Was really cool...
Decided to start adding some additional predators, I have this 13 inch flounder acclimated over to pure fresh water ready for realease into the pond this weekend. Goinng to add some additional Adult wild shinners and as many finger mullet as I can net to help feed the tarpon until the BG can start spawning again this spring. Sinking 4 chrismas trees as well.
side note, when I called the local LEO office regarding me releasing my catch they seemed puzzled to say the least. They informed me "as long as you harvested your fish legally there is no law against you letting it go in a private fresh waster pond but it will die I you did because it is a saltwater fish"
If there was a place to buy flounder for stocking I would be all for it. I very seldom target them fishing out of Apalachicola. I do catch alot of them about 5 to 7 miles out on my bait holes that have sandy patches around live bottom. I even caught 1 onetime while drifting bottom 28 miles out in 180' of water. I only eat about 10 a year that size. If I had them in the pond I know that number would increase.
BTW Have you tried converting a sheepshead or mangrove snapper to freshwater?
From what I understand sheepshead can live in fresh water.
Keep a cooler and a battery or plug in bubbler handy when you fish next time, when you catch a couple that are leagal size to keep put them in the cooler and take them home. They are very easy to acclimate, just slowly keep adding fresh water.
Thanks, I am thinking there could be an advantage to stocking Sheepshead in some cases instead of some RES (red eared sunfish). A sheepshead would be good for eating snails and other shelled creatures like the RES.. The advantage may come in that younger sheepshead will also eat filamentous algae.
I actually played around with the idea of Snook along time ago after catching them in freshwater canals. Water temps up this way kill them in the winter. I have never taken a LMB fisherman snook fishing that did not go a little crazy over them.
I would hope that a lot more of this experiment will be document and published here, whether successful or not.
We have many examples of good and bad, where fish and amphibians have transitioned from one to the other.
Striped bass are probably the best known successful accidental examples I know of, where a saltwater/brackish/freshwater fish has succeeded in a singular freshwater habitat without serious problems.
But, growing up on the Great Lakes when they opened to ocean-going ships via the St. Lawrence Seaway, the Great Lakes have been invaded by many problematic saltwater invasive species via ballast. These diseases and critters, like zebra mussels and lamprey eels, have since invaded inland freshwater lakes and streams in the Great Lakes states, which has made life miserable for our friends in those states. Because of this, it is illegal to move bait, fingerlings, etc., across county and state borders. Just moving a boat or boat trailer from one water body to another has become an issue.
Those of us involved in professional agriculture/aquaculture/aquaponics are constantly reminded and trained in bio-security. I would hope that experiments such as this are taking serious bio-security precautions.
A major concern I have about this experiment is that it doesn't result in another out-of-control invasive species.
Catmandoo, the pond is an isolated small pond. Also the few fish in it have no reproductive capability with out access to salt water. They are also local native fish that naturally inhabbit the local fresh water waterways at some point during their life cycle. So nothing non-native or unatural about them, other than they will not have access to salt water when they think they want to reporduce. I also called the FWC and they said no law against putting them into private pond once you harvest them.
I apologize for getting a little over zealous regarding moving fish from one place to another, especially into an enviroment where they don't normally live.
I guess I've really become over-sensitized to it in the last dozen years, or so. We've seen so many issues in the Chesapeake Watershed that I even quit using anything but domestically raised minnows in my ponds for bait.
Catmandoo, I have a lake house in Northern WI and fish the great lakes every season. I can see what effects the salty invaders have done. It is actually quite amazing that they are able to live in ballast tanks let alone go from the ocean get dumped into a cold fresh water environment and thrive.....The alewives and the lamprey in particular. It is one thing to be able to live in fresh water but thrive and reproduce coming from pure salt water is almost science fiction.
Although, I have often wondered if a regular stocking program of put and take for sheepshead in lakes that have zebra mussel issues might be benificial. I do think the sheepshead have some temperature restrictions but are pretty cold tolerant...
Also, I side note.... I notice alot of sealice on the saltwater fish around my area during the winter for some reason. The flounder in the picture above had several on it. They did not like the fresh water and died. At least I think they are sealice, they look like little allens attached. detach and they move like crabs over the fishes body. When atached the are hard to remove.
Catmandoo, I agree all people need to be good about protecting our waters from invasive problem species. That said I have personally observed every species BobbyRice and I are talking about in freshwater in FL.. I know they all spend parts of there life cycle there. Last year I seen adult sheepshead that where caught out of Lake Wimico (which opens naturally to the Gulf Of Mexico about 10 miles into the fresh water zone). The Zebra mussels you mentioned have now made there way into Alabama from the Great Lakes. Things like what BobbyRice is doing interest me as the Sheepshead may be another natural method of destroying other invasive species like the zebra mussel. I for one am very glad to find out the sheepshead can survive full time in the freshwater.
On a side note the tributaries in my area feed unrestricted into the Gulf of Mexico which has often made me think about invasive aquatic problems. I have actually caught wild american eels on site. I even removed one about 2ft long from my 3 AC pond site the last time I reworked it.
Although, I have often wondered if a regular stocking program of put and take for sheepshead in lakes that have zebra mussel issues might be benificial. I do think the sheepshead have some temperature restrictions but are pretty cold tolerant...
I have been thinking the same thing during the last year.
Bobby, Can blue crabs live in absolute fresh water? I've seen them in areas that are most fresh, if not all fresh here in Louisiana. If so, have you put some small crabs in your pond to feed the sheepshead?
Blue Crabs can and do live in fresh water, someone on the forum has stocked some in their pond and had great growth, however they cannot reproduce without saltwater access either. I thought about blue crabs but they will eat everything else. I only have the one sheepshead. All the others are fish eaters. The sheepshead does eat the fish pellets though.
The results of this work provide the first evidence that southern flounder can be economically cultured in freshwater without adversely affecting growth. The establishment of southern flounder farming would be a valuable contribution to the U.S. Aquaculture industry of a high-value fish with worldwide market appeal. Use of cyclic feeding regimes may have limited ability to improve feed efficiency but appears to have greater effect on the phosphorus levels in pond water and would indirectly improve the quality of effluents from HSB ponds.
Sorry no pics or video, but wanted to give an update on the pond. This weekend I released a couple dozen adult wild shiners, some sail fin mollies and a load of gulf killifish into the pond to suppliment the bait fish population.
I also added several hundred finger mullet about 4-6 inches long.....
The cool part is after about 15 minutes somthing had the mullet schooled up and was chasing them along the surface of the pond exploding on them. It was pretty large, I am assuming it was the tarpon.....Seems they are still doing well and were enjoying the 80 degree weekend we had.....
Next time I release a finger Mullet in the pond it will have a circle hook in it....with a camera on stand bye,.,,,
Oh, and the flounder swam off healthy looking after being in the cooler of fresh water for a week.
how long does it take acclimate most salt water species if you can message me a reponse i am really thinking about trying this with a lot of species my pond has a huge variety in it now and i would love to expand it. i love going fishing and not knowing what i am gonna catch.
My visit to the pond.............. I realeased a cooler full of finger mullet. I first tossed one around with a cirlcle hook in it and got nothing. I figured the the tarpon might not be feeding due to the recent cold snap we had last week. After releasing the mullet I saw them getting chased around and busted on twice so somthing was after them and it certainly was not CNBG not Tilapia. Ill catch one of those things eventually and get a picture to post.
I did that, I even tossed one in the area I saw one bust the school... They did not seem to be hitting as agressive as the last time I dumped some, the water was warmer then.
I might have time to try again wednesday night.....
Not much to report, I added more Finger Mullet and Gulf Killie fish for supplemental feeding until the CNBG and the tilapia start spawning for the season.
I did verify several schools of Sail Fin Mollies around the pond so it looks as if I have established a sustained population of them from my bucket stocking.
I watched an Osprey catch and fly away with a very nice sized CNBG from the pond; this could explain why I saw very little feeding activity on the surface when I tossed in pellets.
I casted around with a rattle trap and got nothing, I did not even see the tarpon busting the mullet after release as they normally do.
Bobby Rice, just read all of this. Man you make me miss back home when I was a kid. Jupiter had a lot of inlets to brackish water and we caught some neat fish in them. A lot of the ditches had the fan tailed guppys and other cool critters.
As I walked up the first thing I was a nice school of large adult shiners darting around the shore line. I tossed a couple fish pellets to bring the in closer..
I walked around a little more and saw a snook cruising the shoreline a little farther down.
I later saw a nice sized school of perfect bait sized finger Mullet.
saw the sheeps head eating pellets with the koi too.
THEN I SAW IT.... One LMB, Last year I was told the teenager and a buddy put in a "Bass”. I fished and fish and looked and looked, but never found or saw a "bass" for months after they told me about the stocking and thought they must have mistaken on the ID of the fish they put in. Well it seems they did put one in, I fished all weekend for the stupid thing but could not get it. I cold see it but not catch it. Further steps will be taken. One LMB is not the end of the world but want it out incase another one finds its way in. Don’t want them to be able to reproduce.
Also fished for some of my more desirable fish with no luck either. The Pond seems to be full of food right now so fishing is tricky it seems.
Lots of CNBG babies of various sizes, millions of GAMS , Mud minnows here and there, shiners, mullet etc.
My plant cages seem to be helping. The eel grass has taken hold and doing great inside the cages and is trimmed neatly across the top. One cage that was failed Lilly pad transplant was full of this grass and seemed to be a real magnet for the little CNBG.
I ran a 4ft seine net and removed some gams as well ....
thats nothing, only a small run down about 50 feet. More than half went through the net as they are smaller. It was the end of a long day and my helper was over it so I only got to do a short rund down one bank. the pond has millions of the things...
Perhaps, seems just humanely euthanizing them and feeding them back to the fish in the pond seems easier. they make perfect bite sized snacks for all to share once they are longer able to avoid being eaten.
Could we please please please have some photos of your pond and some of the fish you can catch in it? All of us inlanders are insanely jealous of your species variety.
This is a Google Earth photo of the pond; obviously it is during the winter as every thing is brown. The area tool says its right at half an acre.
X marks the corner that the artesian well flow pipe located. P marks the plant cages - marks the pallet structures the box shape is the concrete rubble pile the dot things are xmas trees dropped this year
The aretsian flow in the corner will creat a warm water pocket refuge I hope will prevent a chill kill in the event we get another record cold winter like we had about 5 years ago, the water comes out at 72 degrees....
I have hooked and lost two tarpon during acrobatic jumps. I have only seen the snook swimming, they seem to be hard to catch...But when I do I will get a picture...
I will try fishing before I start messing around with the pond. I might be spooking them a little...
I spent a little time messing around with the pond this weekend... Saw lots of Baby CNBG around the edges, they are spawning like crazy it seems...
I also Stocked about 4 dozen adult wild Golden Shiners...I have been seeing the previous stockers schooled around the pond so they are thriving but not sure if any reruitment...I will just keep adding them as they are free...
I also stocked a cooler FULL of Glass Minnows, (Silversides)
While feeding and watching I saw a giant Shiner leap out and flip in the air a couple times as it was chasing something it seemed...However unless Shiners can get 18-20" long it most likely was a tarpon...
I then put on a live mud minnow on a bobber right in the feeding area...With in minutes I have a jumping flying tarpon on the line....He quickly spit out my hook and swam off...No pictures , Sorry..
I was also able to finally catch and remove this LMB that was stocked by a helpful teenager awhile back...it was only about 6-10 inches according the reports at the time it was stocked so it has been doing some eating...I feel much better getting it gone..
I will make sure I get somting if I get lucky and land somthing cool, I will be heading up north to wisconsin this week for the next 21 days. I will be doing northern fishing and will get some pond fishing when I return, hopefully to get a photo of somthing from the pond other than bait fish....
Neat, I definitely saw the sheepshead, he sticks out! That tarpon is lightening fast! You sure do have a bunch of koi in there... With your eventual goals, I would start thinning some of them out to open up biomass in your pond.
CJ, The koi have been slowly getting thinned out by Mother Nature. An osprey seems to take a few out every spring.
My next target for removal is the two large GC, that will remove 40-50 pounds of fish right away...now that I have gotten the LMB out I can focus on the GC. I have gone from 4 down to two of them...These last two are going to be fun to get out...
As the Predators start to get size they will reduce BG numbers I think as well. Thanks for the guidance you have given on getting a forage base going...Most things I have stocked seem to be helping in that regard.
Took a couple screen shots from the video. Tarpon is going after and missing a GSH.... You can see the GSH high tailing it ... Literally....one lucky little fish...
The CNG are reproducing greatly...Saw hundreds of YOY almost at any point all around the pond with several size classes. I have never seen that many fingerlings in this pond before. The Bucket stocking of mature CNBG seems to be working.
The GAMS I have had such an issue with seem to be reduced greatly. I can see groups of fingerling CNBG in inches of water targeting the smaller GAMS. I think they are really thinning them out. I also think the GSH might be working on the new born GAMS a tad also. Im glad to see this....
I tried to get the GC to take celery on a hook with no luck.
With forage base coming along nicely, I will be adding a few more predators..I'll do a little fishing this up coming weekend and see if I can get any thing interesting.
Tarpon- 2 - I have seen swimming around Southern Flounder- 1 - I have seen swimming around GC- 2 Snook- 2 - I have seen swimming around Koi- 20 give or take CNBG- lots SFM (sailfin mollies)-Lots GKF (Gulf killifish)- Few left, No recruitment thus far Mullet- few left Gambusia- Lots and Lots Mud minnows , these are Gulf Killie GSH- seen school of 30-60- 100 ?? Seem to be seeing lots of them, not sure..Been bucket stocking them Atlantic Silversides- a cooler full...
Ill do some fishing in the river and intercoastal water way soon and catch some predators that meet the leagal size limit for angling and keep them.
Could be a few or A lot I have not seen already Swimming around in the pond??
The plan is to keep them out, its only a half acre pond so I dont want to have to manage them. A Teeneager put a small one in and I finally got it out. It had grown a good bit. I thought about just leaving it in as one big bass would be nice to have. But I feared the additional assitance of someone that thought they would add another one, We all know what happens then.....
The plan is to grow enough food to support a limited amount of predators that can get pretty large....I do not have to wory about them reproducing and over populating, I just have to worry about growing enough food to feed them.
Fished some for the tarpon, hooked it and after a few jumps it cut the line with its gill plate. It jumped multiple times after and finally threw the lure across the pond....
I fished in the St Johns river Friday night and got a Mangrove Snapper and a Flounder of legal angling size limits, So I kept them...debating on if they should go in the pond or the hot grease.
The sail Fin mollies I bucket stocked seem to be really doing well also...
Actually the pond is coming along nicely, I did notice the YOY 2-3 inch CNBG seemed pretty thin with kinda big eyes. I am not sure what to do to provide more natural food. The pond does get pelleted feed but not on a fixed daily schedual. I am wonding if I still have to many small minnows (GAMS) that migh be competing for food with them.?
Im still trying to get the last two GC out as they have been eating the lilly pads I have tried to get started and the eel grass has not spread beyond the plant cages. Maybe I need to put more plant cages for bugs and things to feed the litte guys?
I'd work on cleaning out the GC. CNBG are very prolific... There is a good chance you have way too many CNBG and there isn't much you can do to help them out. CNBG don't make the best food source for any of your salty predators and you don't have many of those predators anyways. You may need to manually thin some out.
Thanks CJBS2003, Lots of babies but not actually that many adults. You are right, I am very suprized at how many babies for how few adults I have. I am going to add a feeder I think and add more predators. I noticed the snapper taking the CNBG out. I have cleaned redfish and jack crevelle with pinfish in the belly, CNBG are similar in structure and spines so maybe they will thin them out, If I can ever catch any big enough to keep to stock. So I guess my plan will be to get my predators stocked and evaluate the CNBG situation after a little time. Maybe after I get more predators stocked see what I have as far as CNBG next summer and come up with a plan.
If you start feeding, there's no reason to think about adding fertilizer. The feed will do that for you. I think an automated feeder will really jump start the pond.
Bobby, again I'm impressed with your project. I agree with CJ, Koi are nasty!! That Jack is real nice but able to attain 50+ lbs is something that makes me wonder. Maybe take it out when it gets up around 15-18 lbs or do you think it will not attain a large size because of limited space? Keep these reports coming, they are so cool.
I hope he doesn't get too spooked. Jack Crevalle are very much a schooling species. Without buddies, he may not be happy... Need to catch him a few buddies!
CJ, I have actually given that some thought. I also seem to catch lots of lone wolf single fish in creeks etc that seem to be out feeding alone. I have seen single fish hanging around spring heads too. I will see how it does and adjust if it seems needed. As BOB-O Mentioned the size, I am concerned about having enough food in the pond. So ill start with adding one and see how it goes.
I have a feeling I will start seeing it feeding on pellets as it is not uncommon for jacks to learn to feed around marina's etc that dump food.
I might one day have to start tossing LM pellets?
I Still have not gotten an auto feeder a but friend that lives adjacent to pond has been hand feeding Purina game fish chow on a simi regular basis for me. . I think thats why I have started seeing the tarpon and the snapper showing up during feeding sessions. they are starting to figure it out.
Bocomo, here is the link to the short video I posted in july that shows the tarpon very briefly. You can see it slash in the screen twice going after someting.
visibility was bad this weekend so I could not see to much. I am thinking the CNBG had a lot of spwaning activity with the recent full moon.
I am hoping to source a few predators this weekend, My goal is a few speckled sea trout, couple southern flounder and a refish or two. I will get a video of the release and post If I am lucky.
From my reading yes they can. It was done once in texas on a larger scale but was discontinued, seemed the ones stocked survived until fishout out and or died naturally from the reading I have done on it. I have been taking about about 4-6 hours of adding fresh water. I probably should take longer but have had good luck so far. The Spec seatrout is the most Questionable one I am attempting though....
I got skunked as far as my targetted fish this weekend, bad wind and tide........ My sister caught some yellow mouth sand trout in the river and kept a few. She put them in a wire fish basket and they got pretty beat up. One made it to the pond and survived intaial transition to fresh water. I released it. It was seen the next day breaking the surface.. Either dieing or feeding not sure. if dieing not sure if from very rough handling or fresh water intolerance...
I will continue to try and source some speckled sea trout ...
realsed one bait mullet I had left with a tail trim....Got nailed by tarpon....
A little pond management this weekend, some bricks for some crayfish or critter habitats. Another eel grass cage and a couple predators to stock. Cast net in tow, I have an idea for grass carp removal ....
Yes they did..I grabbed my heavier bait caster by mistake so it kind of manhandled them in,,,Probably why I was able to land them now that I think about it...The larger one was way stonger though...I realeased both and they seemed fine...
Also , I forgot to mention the Jack Crevalle took a stike at a lure for me but didnt stick...But I saw it, it looked healthy and was obviously feeding./...
Amazing stuff Bobby...you really should write an article for PB on raising saltwater fish. It's a subject I know nothing about, except what you've imparted on the forum. I think it's groundbreaking science that needs to be shared with the entire community. I'd love to get all the details and find out what strategies and goals are.
Well done!
TJ, I have given some thought to that idea. I am going to give a little more time and development so I have a little more to say about results.
It would be fun to see people in the right climate stock Jack Crevalle as bounus sport fish sorta how Hybrid stripers stocked..
I read that the FWC (Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission) has considered offering small snook to stock in private waters. This would be awesome as sport and table fare for pond and lake owners. I doubt the funding will develope for this but a private hatchery is a differant story...Any one with a lot of money that wants to try and start up a hatchery im in to help out...
Might have been good that ya got em in quick. I'm in Bradenton now and have to chuckle when the weather people brag about this cool fall weather. 86 today and sweated profusely just spraying weeds.
It does . Unless we get one of those 20-30 year record colds like we had 4 years ago. I am hoping the artesian well at 72 degrees will keep that corner of the pond as a refuge... The other fish are even a bit more sensitive so I am hoping for the best. I know they are resident fish in the interacoastal and river year round. They find warm pockets and deep holes during the very short freezes we get. ....
Yeah, there are some warm springs that help those river systems out... I am very interesting to see how the warm water loving fish in your pond fair during a few cold winters.
Please verify: tarpon, snook, flounder and redfish can live in fresh water? I mean, it seems obvious by your photos...but I want to make certain I'm not missing anything like your pond has access to brackish backwaters or high salinity, etc. You are merely acclimating them to fresh water incrementally?
If your pond never gets below 55 degrees or so, this stocking is possible. There are many species which are highly tolerant to wide salinity ranges. They just need higher salinities to spawn.
If your pond never gets below 55 degrees or so, this stocking is possible. There are many species which are highly tolerant to wide salinity ranges. They just need higher salinities to spawn.
Thats the goal....Temp is my highest risk I think being as far north in FL as I am...
I think I have mentioned before I know of a very small pond in Jacksonville Beach that has a couple large snook and tarpon and lots of tilapia and a various cichlids that have survived our coldest winters recently by laying in the corner of that pond that has an areteasion well flowing in one corner.
I am hoping I can copy this ...
Also got two more 15-16 inch Southern Flounder to add today during lunch...I'll post a video..
The google says it is rare for adult male Southern Flounder to break 14 inches and typically stay off shore. Immature fish and adult females inhabit the river system and esutaries. I am thnking the 15-16 inchers I got are young females...Hoping they will get some size in the pond...
I have seen a place on-line about some folks in FL trying to raise them comercially in ponds... They charge an arm and a leg if you want to come fish a pond for the day.
I've caught southern flounder up to 6 lbs. They feel like rocks when you hook then cause they stay stuck to the bottom until you yank then up. I keep getting more and more jealous (err, I mean envious) every time you add something to your pond or post pictures.
Took a long lunch break from work to let the last two founder go.
Im sure I was the only tuck in the parking garage this morning with flounder in a cooler and a bubbler running. Who knows what people thought as they walked by on the way to work.
I tried putting my polerized sunglass lense of the camera lense to help with water glare....Didnt seem to help much...Can't really see what going on beyond the surface....
Well, I for one am 100% stoked and amazed by this endeavor [stokmazed]. This needs to get into PB Magazine. Shoot Lusk an email - bet he'd be fired up and fascinated [firecinated].
Too funny TJ.. I am thinking of were even to start to put am article together. I will shoot him am email. I'm sure he would be able to give me things to highlight.. Now on to speckled sea trout... This one I'm not sure how they will do in a pond... But I'm gonna find out soon...
I just looked up the definition of euryhaline - got it.
I included a partial list from the site and wonder if you have considered any of these:
Atlantic Stingray Bull Shark Green chromide Herring Lamprey Mummichog Molly Puffer fish Barramundi Madagascar meagre Mangrove Jack
The mummichog seems an interesting minnow - Travis any experience with them in the coastal areas around you? Wonder if they'd do well in pond environment? Reportedly tolerant of low DO and pollution.
Stingrays could be cool, and young bull sharks, too. Now that would make for an interesting management plan...feeding your fish rats! That video I would need to see!
TJ, the Bull Shark and the Lamprey, I wouldn't even consider adding. Lamprey because I've seen the scars that they've left on salmon in the Great Lakes, Bull Shark because of the damage they can do. You think a pike or musky is bad? TJ, PM sent.
IT would be cool to have a Bull Shark and get it on a feeding schedual...
I would want to fence the pond so dogs and kids did not attept to swim....
It would look like a beach in south africa with all the shark warning signs around it, Only thing that most people would think it a joke and just jump in with out a fence.
It could be a good way to dispose of road kill .....
Yes, mummichogs are very common in the brackish water areas. I catch them with a seine or minnow trap at my dad's place to flounder fish with. They're closely related to the banded killifish(bull minnow). So much so they will hybridize. I see no reason to pick them over banded killifish for pond stocking.
Yes, mummichogs are very common in the brackish water areas. I catch them with a seine or minnow trap at my dad's place to flounder fish with. They're closely related to the banded killifish(bull minnow). So much so they will hybridize. I see no reason to pick them over banded killifish for pond stocking.
It seems mostly what I have been able to find is what is called loacally mud minnows.., Best I can ID they are Gulf Killie fish...Do great in the pond but reproduction in freshwater is weak... I have seen them slowly disapear....I added tons all through out the winter last year...
Ill try any forage fish as I am sure I will need them now that I have have more predators...
Look for golden topminnows, American flagfish and sheepshead minnows. All are common in your part of FL and have no issues with spawning in pure freshwater.
Look for golden topminnows, American flagfish and sheepshead minnows. All are common in your part of FL and have no issues with spawning in pure freshwater.
I have sourced sheeps head minnows and added them. I saw them doing spawning activies...I must not have stocked enough as they are all gone now. Ill keep adding them , maybe the gams are eating the fry or the koi are sucking the eggs out of the sand. I can get lots of the sheeps head minnows so Ill keep adding them.
Getting the grass carp out and most off the koi out to allow the eel grass to take off would be a big help in keeping forage fish numbers up.
Indeed, I have tried several things on the grass carp...Gonna try snagging with a big trebble hook next....Then it's time for a 22 I think... It does seems I have too many koi..I am torn as I started out making a koi pond and Kinda like them. I thought they would naturally thin out more than they have... I thought I would end up with a few very large Koi...They have thinned some though...Ill get the grass carp out first and relocate a few koi ( my pets ) ,,,
Removed one so far using SS.... The issue I have is I catch so many other things I am spooking them fighting and realing in all the other things, Koi, Blue Gill, et...
Ill try again before I 22 them , I would like to relocate them to another pond on the property that is full of weeeds..
*snip* I would like to relocate them to another pond on the property that is full of weeeds..
There goes my idea of bowfishing for them....
if I can not get them alive soon ill try to borrow a bow and do that, at least it will be fun....Ill even try to video it if it gets to that point soon...Problem is I do not have "pond Partner" so Im usually alone and cannot video such events....
I know those koi are your pets, but at some point in the near future you are going to need the biomass they are taking up for your game fish you are currently stocking...
I know those koi are your pets, but at some point in the near future you are going to need the biomass they are taking up for your game fish you are currently stocking...
Quick pond update, .. Seems to be lots if multiple age class CNBG I Saw some really small ones, seems they pulled off a late season spawn. Didn't see much other than that as it's been cool. I released 150 - 4-6 inch mullet I got with the cast net for a little extra food. Although with all the little CNBG I'm not sure I need to add additional food this winter.
81 degrees today so I figured it would be a good day to get the fish feeder installed.. All went well. I figured out I should have used a 10 foot post instead of an 8 footer, but it will work it seems. . I have it set to run 8 seconds every evening for now. I also got the artesian well outlet extended to the very corner of the pond. I also dumped in a cast net full of finger mullet just because I could. I saw a tarpon roll on one and what seemed to be a snook suck one off the surface... Assuming snook because of the suction feeding technique .. That is typical surface feeding style for snook..... But could have something else I guess....
yea, really just wanted to show the feeder I guess you were expecting to see a tarpon roll on a mullet, maybe next time. During the winter action is a bit slower they are not feeding aggressively, but feeding.
Ill be out messing around with the pond this coming saturday so I will try to get somthing more entertaining for you.
Bobby, ya might hope that some of those Mullet mature. There was an article in the Bradenton Herald on the 20th that said the run is full on and they are getting $2.20 per lb for whole females. The males are only getting 10 cents. I was at the AP Bell Fish Co on Tues and there were boats lined up waiting to off load. Talked to one captian who said he got 1200 lbs yesterday and 1500 lbs today(Tues) Bet he was one sore dude as they cast net and have to manually haul the fish on board.
Bobby, ya might hope that some of those Mullet mature. There was an article in the Bradenton Herald on the 20th that said the run is full on and they are getting $2.20 per lb for whole females. The males are only getting 10 cents. I was at the AP Bell Fish Co on Tues and there were boats lined up waiting to off load. Talked to one captian who said he got 1200 lbs yesterday and 1500 lbs today(Tues) Bet he was one sore dude as they cast net and have to manually haul the fish on board.
You guys need to keep your cold weather to controlled please., It is creeping into my area. It's getting into the low 20's tonight and tomorrow night then warming wednesday to high in the 60's and back to 70's rest of the week and weekend. The pond has no overflow drain and the it is capped off with all the rain and back filling into the lawn. So I am worried about being able to run the warm water well with out flooding the lawn upto the drive way. At least its a very short cold spell so I think I will be ok....
You guys are friggin killing us down here in Bonaire with your cold fronts. I was freezing one morning at breakfast and actually had to put on a pair of sweat pants and light sweatshirt instead of shorts and tee shirt.
It was about 73 degrees and probably 71 with wind chill! The locals were all bundled up like it was winter.
Edit: Forgot to add, the water is a chilly 78 degrees. Get cold in a 3-2 mil wetsuit after an hour. Should be 80.
over night temps got to 26 high of 37 low of 31 tonight then warming steadily tomorrow....
no thermometer in the pond but the pool temp was 54 this morning, had the filter pump running and circulating all night do to the freeze. I feel the pond would be a good bit warmer as the pipes etc from the above ground filtration system would act like a radiator and cool the water quiker than in the still pond.
I think Im going to be fine during this pretty cold snap...
I'd hate to have a pond like yours. I'd end up spending all of my free time fishing to add new fish and castnetting for 2 tons of baitfish every week to feed them. Nope , better you than me.
Bobby, how far are ya from Bradenton? It was 79 here today but only a high of 60 tomorrow. Wish some of the warm would migrate to north Indiana and clear my pond. Been pretty worried.
I'd hate to have a pond like yours. I'd end up spending all of my free time fishing to add new fish and castnetting for 2 tons of baitfish every week to feed them. Nope , better you than me.
I just stocked my last predator fish , Assuming all goes as planned...
I dump extra bait fish just because I enjoy it. I think I have sustainable food source with shiners and CNBG, but axtra can't hurt I figure.
Fishing never seems to be unenjoyable weather I'm angling for the pond, in the pond or for the table....
Went fishing today as a matter of fact....
I released 5 speckled sea trout (+\- 16") One blue fish 12 inches
Sunil , this is an anticlimactic release of them, just for you .... ;-)
CJ, I have only been able to establish that blue fish have wide range if salinity tolerance. I have not found any definitive publication that says if they can go to zero or not.... So I'm just gonna try it and see....
Bobby, I may have not been clear that my comments were tongue in cheek. I think what you are doing would be a blast.
I figured so.. I was just trying to fit a response all in one post... no worries.........
Also someone asked about the feeders.. I know redfish will take to pellets.. Nothing is feeding a lot right now.. I think this spring things will fire up around the feeder....
Sunil, I am not sure if freshwater will effect the taste? I do not think it would, I have caught Tilapia in salt water around here and they tasted just as muddy and gross as the ones I got from freshwater.
CJ, This is actually not from the main pond. This is a smaller experimental pond I have been messing with.
That was my wife that took the video of the flounder attack,
I found this researching today ...Thought it was interesting..
short version, Conclusions: these observations lead to the conclusions that juvenile goliath grouper have the ability to osmoregulate in freshwater and should be considered a marine euryhaline species. IE: Live in fresh water!
Long Version Osmoregulation of juvenile marine goliath grouper (Epinephelus itajara) in low-salinity water Lury N García, Clara L Sierra, Jeiver Perez, Frank Esquivel, Frank A Chapman
Abstract
Summary
Background: goliath grouper (Epinephelus itajara) is an economically valuable marine species and an excellent candidate for domestication for aquaculture purposes. If this grouper can osmoregulate in lowsalinity water, its cultivation can provide socio-economic benefits, for both coastal communities and the mainland agricultural sector. Objective: to evaluate the osmoregulatory capacity of juvenile goliath grouper when exposed to low-salinity water. Methods: juvenile goliath grouper (Epinephelus itajara) were either directly or gradually transferred from seawater to freshwater to test osmoregulatory ability. Body weight was assessed during acclimation and blood samples were taken to measure total osmolality and electrolytes. Results: all fish survived the transfer to freshwater and were maintained for up to 12 days after termination of the acclimation trials which lasted 72 hours. Juvenile goliath grouper were hyposmotic (342-462 mosmol/kg) to seawater and hyperosmotic (272-292 mosmol/kg) to freshwater. The gills and kidneys were found to have principal roles in the osmoregulatory processes. Numerous chloride cells were found on superficial regions of the gill filament epithelium, most likely serving to eliminate the excess of electrolytes while in seawater. The kidneys had numerous nephrons to make urine and retain electrolytes while in freshwater. Conclusions: these observations lead to the conclusions that juvenile goliath grouper have the ability to osmoregulate in freshwater and should be considered a marine euryhaline species. Such adaptability opens for consideration the possibility that goliath grouper could be successfully farmed in brackish water or even in freshwater.
"Just a pretty small pond that is loaded with stunted CNBG and lots of tilapia. Something needs to reduce the Numbers of panfish in this particular little pond.
A big sea bass (giant grouper or what we used to call Jewfish back in the day before everything had to be politically correct) should do the trick.
Big CC, bluecat and flathead move over. There is a new top predator in town!!!!
I think an episode of River Monsters where the host was trying for bull sharks he caught a very large Goliath grouper. That thing was amazing!
I saw that one. It was pretty cool...
Im doing some pond stuff this weekend, Dumping a bunch of brood stock adult wild shiners in an attempt to boost any reproduction and try to maintain any recruitment I might be getting. I figured if I dump a bunch right before they spawn this spring it would help out.
Does your pond have a halocline? Or do the fish keep it stired up enough so the salt stays in suspension permanently?
When diving along the Mexican Yucatan coast and in the cenote's I often ran into a halocline. The heavier sea water would sink, and the lighter fresh water would be on top. An intermediate layer a few inches thick in the transition always a shimmery area where view of anything was distorted. Above was clear, below was clear, but at the halocline the water was really cool looking.
Having not been exposed to it, the average person might assume the two waters would mix immediately, but the do not. It takes some wave agitation or time for them to equalize and the heavier and lighter water to become one.
Does your pond have a halocline? Or do the fish keep it stired up enough so the salt stays in suspension permanently?
I have no salt to my knowledge..I have not actually tested the water. The well that feeds it is the same one that provides drinking water so I hope not.
I thought you living where you do you might have some brackish groundwater and you were putting salt water fish in water that had low levels of salt. You are putting them in completely fresh water.
I thought you living where you do you might have some brackish groundwater and you were putting salt water fish in water that had low levels of salt. You are putting them in completely fresh water.
My mistake.
I have been thinking about getting a cheap salinity tester from the pet store and test it to find out...Perhaps I will remeber next time I am buying dog food.
I realesed 36 large wild shiners for a few extra breeders come this spring wich is only a few weeks away. I hope to do it a few more times before then.
Those were some nice sized GSH. Hopefully a few will not be eaten before they can pull of a spawn. At least with them being from the wild, they should have instincts to keep them from being complete easy pickings... That is the problem with hatchery raised shiners. They are kept in brood ponds without predators their whole life. When they get stocked into a pond with predators, they face a steep learning curve.
Those were some nice sized GSH. Hopefully a few will not be eaten before they can pull of a spawn. At least with them being from the wild, they should have instincts to keep them from being complete easy pickings... That is the problem with hatchery raised shiners. They are kept in brood ponds without predators their whole life. When they get stocked into a pond with predators, they face a steep learning curve.
They were defiantly actively doing predation avoidance maneuvers, (real jumpy). As large as they are only a few of the predators can eat them at this point I think. (I am hoping) Also, with the water being cold for the type of predators in this pond right now might add survival percent until spawn temps by slowing the predation down some.
Low 60's I would guess. Pool was at 65 but hot tub cycled through it once over night.
Forgot again to get a thermometer for the pond.
GSH are pretty spry at those temps...My predators it's low 70's I think before they start getting real energetic.
Although Last time I went fishing in the river the Speckled sea trout and flounder were hitting artificial plastics on a steady retrieve, water temps were in the very high 50's. I think those two my be the lower temp tolerant of the bunch.
If I can get 50-100 more that size before spring spawn, That should help out what if any recruitment chances I might have for the GSH this year.
Toured the pond this weekend and refilled the feeder.
I saw lots of tilapia beds around the shoreline.
I think the CNBG have spawned already, I saw lots of 1-2" babies. Those are way to small to be last years and I didnt see them during the winter months.
I fished around the feeder with dead shrimp and live minnows, I caught two large "bream".
after most the pellets were gone I saw a flounder crusing the surface inside grass line along the bank not 2 feet from me. It sure seemed to me it was nosing around for pellets that might have drifted into the grass. Of coarse by the time I got my phone out of my pocket and fumbled with the stupid security code unlock it casually swam off.
The pond seems to be loaded with forage sized fish so I am thinking the predators are not real hungy. Maybe once the water warms more they will be feeding more heavily and I can catch somthing to show off.
I did catch a shark we estimated at near 200 Lbs off shore jax though.. :-)
I don't think the CNBG babies are from this year; I think they were born late last year.
Did you put the shark in the pond? hehe.
could be from late last year spawn, but they are very small. we have had 70 - 80 degree days for at least a month with a few cool evenings. The tilapipa are in full spawn mode. I figured the CNBG would spawn first but it does seem a little early. either way it looks like I will have lots of small fish to be eaten.
the shark was a sandbar shark ... If it was a Bullshark, WHO knows...LOL
Wish I cold have gotten a video of the flounder crusing the shallow grass...
I hope he doesn't get too spooked. Jack Crevalle are very much a schooling species. Without buddies, he may not be happy... Need to catch him a few buddies!
CJ, I have been thinking and with how well the forage fish seem to be doing I am going to add a buddy for the Jack. I do want to wait and verify it made it through the stocking and cold season before I add another. Becuse if I add one then see one I will not know for sure wich it is. But I think you are right about it doing better with a partner than all alone.
Visited the pond yeterday...Thought I would give an update
I found a spot I could load up on inland silversides and thought I would load the pond up with them.....Wrong...almost all of them died .... THey seem to very sensative...I will have to try a new way of handling them to get better survival. I read a thread once about how to handle threadfin shad gently....I try that way and see what I get .
Walked around the pond a did a little netting. Seems the loads of small CNBG I saw earlier are very nearly gone. I am hoping more are on the way from this years spawn.. I think as the water warmed the predators started feeding more heavily.
I was seeing lots of recruitment before So I thought some of those would grow out and give me more breeders in time to feed the hungry mouths....Maybe not
I fished around, Had someting hit my beetle spin, it broke the hook right in half , never saw what it was.
I’ll start off saying I now know why the koi have not been thinned out naturally by osprey etc, as they are extremely strong and Wiley fish don’t let the pretty colors fool you. I had 4 in the cast net, they went bonkers and actually popped a small hole in the horn of the net and 3 of the 4 found it somehow and busted it open wider and flew through the air back to freedom. After one cast they disappeared for the day.
Here is the one I did remove, plus a bonus flounder in the net. "See video". Flounder looked healthy and fat, they have not been in very long so not too much growth noticed yet but it sure seemed healthy so that’s a good sign.
the koi are getting smart and Me jumping the gun, I tossed the net when they were a little off the bank and in too deep of water and they out ran the net and disapeared for the day. I did however pull these back in the net.
Nice looking fish, that GSH must be pushing 10". That CNBG is nice looking too... Lots of forage making ability there.
thats the plan, hopefully to feed this guy I got in the other day while attempting koi. I think If I can get a little more clearity by removing a large portion of the koi the predators can feed a little better. I have about 5-6 long fin koi. I woulld like to leave those and remove the rest. 5-6 koi have to be better than 20-30
Operation Koi Removal is proving to be very hard now. The feeder went of and I did not even see a koi. They are totally avoiding me now after a only a few missed shots with the cast net. They used to be like pets and would just cruise and eat pellets , not now...
I tried down sizing hook and line size and floated a worm to see if that might work. This is what I got......they had more color but washed out after being in the white tub while I finished fishing.
I did removed the gold fish from the pond.
side note, I saw the tarpon rolling on minnows several times, saw what I think was a sea trout flash at somthing near the feeder and a redfish take out somthing right near my feet at the shore line. I Can't wait to get the water clearity back up so I can better see and identify the striking species.
Speaking of white tubs to hold fish Bobby, I learned something a few days ago about the color of fish containers.
Been using a yellow 5 gallon bucket to temporarily hold BG to transfer to the old pond about an eighth mile away. They sometimes stay in there for 30 minutes or so with a small portable aerator. Noticed fish would spook when they saw me above or saw movement. Yellow bucket let in a lot of light.
Happened to grab a black bucket one day and used it. Noticed no fish spooking when working around the bucket. Started paying more attention to the situation.
My take is, a darker container that lets less light in causes the fish to feel more secure that they are hid and/or does not allow them to see as much movement around the container.
At any rate have been using the black bucket and I see much less fish jumping and generally being active in the container.
Just an observation, and I could be imagining it. But I don't think so.
Great catch regarding bucket color. I would think anything that helps reduce stress on the fish would be worthwhile and increase the percentage of success.
Stuby Steve's worked I hooked up with two koi, Landed one and one bent the pan fish hook straight. They disapeared after all the activity of the fight.
This one was very full of eggs... She has been removed from the pond.
I am constantly seeing the small tarpon rolling on minnows/Baitfish in the evening....I floated a minnow around but got nothing...At least I get to watch it feeding.
Well look what I caught and landed in the pond this evening . It was released to grow some. I also had a tarpon on, after two leaping head shaking jumps it spit the hook. If it was the same one I caught last year about this time it has doubled in size,Looked thick too.
Operation koi removal continues.. Landed and removed 3 large koi. (17-20") plus one old large goldfish. Somthing pulled line from hook so could have been another big koi or somthing much cooler! My knots pull lose from time to time .
I learned how to tie the 5 turn improved clinch knot when I was a kid and can tie it very quickly. I'll use this knot when the eye of the hook is too small for a double piece of mono (palomar). It's rated at 86% http://www.animatedknots.com/improvedcli...imatedknots.com
One thing with mono is that you must wet the line before pulling it tight. The friction that the knot creates as it tightens when it's dry heats up and weakens the line.
When fishing salt water I learned how to tie the Uni knot. It's very versatile and can be used for many different things. You can pull it tight to the eye of the hook, you can leave the loop near the hook open so the hook swings freely, you can use it to join 2 lines together, etc. http://www.animatedknots.com/duncan/inde...imatedknots.com
I've also found that when using lighter line (up to and including 8# test), if the fish are continually sucking in the bait deep enough so that their teeth are wearing on the line I have to re-tie every 3-4 fish so the line stays near it's rated breaking strength. If I don't re-tie, I find the line breaks near the hook upon hookset or if I'm lifting the fish out of the water with the hook/line (no net).
This happened last week when bass fishing with a plastic jerk bait. The bass were hitting the lure near it's "head" and must have abraded the line more than normal.
Made it down to the pond today, I have been busy and had not checked on it in awhile. The feeder is empty so Ill have to refill it and adjust the timer this weekend.
Tossed a worm on a bobber out real quick right at dark.
Removed one more koi (about 21") and got this large CNBG. I was alone so no one to take pics for me.
You can see its about half as round as a five Gallon bucket...IT was very fat too. so the feeder must have not been empty long.
Bobby, I'm just yankin your chain. Heck it's your pond and you can spear em if ya want. Fact is that is exactly how I got rid of the last few Koi I had. The last one was about 10' off the bank and my spear is only 8' so I had to chuck the spear at it. Hit it just behind the head and that thing swam around with that big spear handle bobblin around the pond for a full 2 minutes. Pretty good Adrenalin rush.
Fished a little with a brand new Xrap, landed a since snook.
I was not using a mono leader, I had 25 pound braid right to the lure.
I fished a little more after landing and releasing the snook, I got smashed really hard and it either popped or cut the 25 Pound braid instantly .. Not sure if it was something toothy or just big?
Bobby, IIRC you live pretty far north in Fl. Are you whatsoever concerned about low water temps? Have you done any research on tolerance of cool water of the fish you have? If so, where did you find it?
Cold water is a concern. However all the species live year round in our waterways. An unusually cold season could be an issue. I do have an artesian well that flows out at 74 degrees. I am hoping I could create a pocket of warm enough water to survive. I think this is mentioned someplace back in the thread. I have looked up lower leathel temps and they are about the same as blue tilapia.
I did notice somthing reading the local flotida sportsman fish forum the other day. Some one posted they cought a couple snook. Air temps early that morning was 46 degrees, intercostal water way water temps were 54 degrees. That same day my pond water was in the about 64. And the well has not been running.
My thought is with the tides moving and churning the water constantly it cools much faster than still pond water.
Whent back today to fish a little after work since it's been so warm. I didn't catch anything, however I did have a giant wake behind my lure a couple times. It reminded me of musky fishing in WI. Saw way to many koi around the feeder.
Also saw a flounder just cruising. I saw it on the other side later, I think it was doing laps. I tried to snag it with my lure but when it got bumped it took off.
I also found my Xrap with a slightly bent hook and about 12 inches of line. I realized later my drag was kinda locked down. I'm thinking big impact from a fish. If it was structure on the bottom the lure would be there still and that casting lane is clear as far as I know. Several good things today. 1. Something big enough to Pop 30 lb braid in the pond. 2. That big somthing does not have a lure stuck in its mouth. 3. I got my new $7.00 lure back. 4. At least one flounder is still kicking around.
Dang Bobby that sounds like a pretty fun day. This weather IS crazy, it was 81 here today. My daughter and her 3 kids came down from In on Sunday and are amazed at the heat. The grandbrats are so nuts they were swimin in the gulf yesterday and the water temp is 64. As to your answer to my ? about temp tolerance was pretty what I would have guessed. I had hoped that you were gonna tell me that some species could tolerate low temps. Had this idea of haulin some Sheepshead, Snook, Redfish and Mullet back ta Indiana this spring. Oh well.
Scott, I'm just not that good with a pole. Bobby, thanks for the shove, believe I'll research a 1250 mile transport. Rainman, what do ya know about transportin fish from Fl to In?
I know you'll need a pre-importation permit - those are available free from the state. you need to apply for one at least 2 weeks before you plan on moving the fish.
I'm not 100% sure if every fish that is brought into the state has to be given a clean bill of health for VHS or not.
Call or e-mail the State Board of Animal Health to double check.
Thanks for that info Scott. I thought that the VHS problem concerned fish coming out of any state bordering the great lakes. Probably pretty slim odds of me being able to pull it off as I don't have a good hauling system or any experience. Guess I could try and if they go belly up just find a campsite and have Flounder for supper.
Scott, I'm just not that good with a pole. Bobby, thanks for the shove, believe I'll research a 1250 mile transport. Rainman, what do ya know about transportin fish from Fl to In?
LOL I know I'd need to get my hauler permit in FL...
Scott's right about the new entry permit in Indiana through BOAH (Board Of Animal Health). The pre-entry rules changed after the Fed dropped Great Lakes VHS rules and dumped it on States.
I believe the state now requires ALL fish to be certified before being brought into the state, not just only fish from states that touch a great lake like before. But, I could be wrong.
I'm not moving fish now, so I'm not worried about the regs, but I will research them before fish hauling season starts.....
After removing 7 large koi I thought I was making a little progress. ...... I had a few minutes to kill and went to watch the feeder go off... Seems I have some work to do still..
Water temp after several cold nights was 60 degrees....
Here is a video only pond boss peeps would find not completely boring...
Bobby I have a 40' sane. We need to get together and see if that will help. I may be coming down to your area next week or so to look a large wood chipper. If i do I will let you know.
Cray, I would love to run a seine, it would help remove the koi and might pull up some of the fish I have not been able to catch and see how and if they are doing. I have some structure to go around but I know where it all is.
Let me know when and if you are coming down. hopefuly it will be during a warm spell and not a cold snap. Ill try and recruit a litle help.
you can PM me when you know more about your schedual and we can try to figure something out. thank tons...
esshup, I have castnetted a few, Actually the koi tore a hole in my net and I lost a few from the net. That was in the summer, they don't seem to be as strong and wild in the colder water so ill try again soon. Also if I goof the first toss they get spooked and stay away from the feed for period, thats what happened before. Smart buggers they are!
I know you'll need a pre-importation permit - those are available free from the state. you need to apply for one at least 2 weeks before you plan on moving the fish.
I'm not 100% sure if every fish that is brought into the state has to be given a clean bill of health for VHS or not.
Call or e-mail the State Board of Animal Health to double check.
Scott if they are not on the VHS susceptible list there is no preimportation permit required. That is unless something has changed I don't know about.
Brook trout are an example. Not on that list so no pre-importation permit required.
Cecil, didn't that change last year when the regs changed here in Indiana? About the time the Feds dropped their support of the vets taking samples. (i.e. Jennifer)
Cecil, didn't that change last year when the regs changed here in Indiana? About the time the Feds dropped their support of the vets taking samples. (i.e. Jennifer)
Hmmm... that is sounding vaguely familiar. I'll have to check my emails from Jennifer and and the email I sent you.
Damn it's hell getting old!
They say people get old in two ways: The mind stays sharp and the body goes, or the mind goes and the body stays in relatively good shape. I think I will be the latter!
Felt like an ornery ol' cuss today and blasted Purdue on the Ohio list serve for not making aquaculture more of a priority. I'm sure it will come back to bite me.
Cecil, did ya say "damn it's hell getting cold or damn it's getting cold as hell"? Aw forget it, my mind dulled yrs ago and the body is going fast, no thanks to the new cleaning lady. As far as bringin fish across the In border I appreciate your and Scotts concern but I intend to entice Rex to meet me in Lousiville and let him bring em in.
PondBoss Forum member "CRAY" was nice enough to offer himself and his 40' seine net to help me remove some of my koi. We are planning on doing it tomorrow (saturday). It has not been warm recently and the water is hanging right at or just above 60 so it could be a little cold. We will try to do it with out getting totally wet a frozen.
I will take as many pics and video as I can to share.
With any luck we will be able to seine up somthing unusual and verify its condition and or existance in the pond.
Dumb question... Do birds of prey not target Koi in ponds? It seems controlling their population is tough, no natural predators, yet they are easy to spot given their coloration. I just wondered if osprey, eagle and whatever predators you have in your area target them?
Bobby, here is what your Tarpon should look like when they grow a little. This was kind of a small one, only about 4'. We see some pushing 6' but not lately. Wife is in second picture.
Not very good pictures. I just use a GoPro with no lighting. Wife is the better photographer but she mostly focuses on macro. Fish was probably at about 70-80 feet deep. Under water they look like they are chrome plated.
Pretty spectacular fish. I've been diving with as many as 40 in a small cove. They would just part as we swam through the group. Cool
Ok here is the big update from seine net saturday.....
Fish are smarter than people....
All we pulled up was some gams and a bunch of baby CNBG.
Not even an adult CNBG, you think at least we would have gotten one of those!
Three positive things from the day though .
1. We were able Castnet three large koi out by sight casting with the cast net. Bringing the total koi removed to 10.
2. Learned the CNBG are reproducing well, several differant size class fingerlings pulled up. Some seemed very young.
3. Got to meet and spend the day with fellow pondbosser "cray" and his family, turned out to be one of the most enjoyable days I've had in awhile regardless of our lack of reportings I know you all were all hoping for..
Nothing like goofing off around the pond with someone that enjoys it as much as you do, that's for sure.
Got in this afternoon from our trip down to Bobby's . My family and I realy enjoyed meeting bobby and his clan. Bobby realy does have a great BOW and although we didn't pull any of those unusual fish that he has stocked in his pond out, We did realy have a great time. He has a great plan laid out and I believe that as he moves forward we will be amazed by what we see. I brought back three beautiful koi and got them into my ornamental pond this afternoon. They seem to be adjusting to there change in latitude very well.
Sunil, your right. I was thinking the same thing. Clint got a few pics of the big fat koi we removed. Perhaps he will post them. As we didn't pull up any Fish up and didn't think you wanted to just see my ugly mug. I didn't post any .
I spent a nice evening at the pond. Bread balls and Bream hooks seemed to work well for the koi, Landed 5 , three butter fly and two short finned. I removed the short finned bringing the total koi removed up to 12 so far.
Fished a little Bit in the pond yesterday and came up empty. I did however see this flounder impression in the shallows. This is a clear indication of some recent Flounder activity.
I messed around at the river sunday and brought back some nice sized mullet to dump in the pond. After I dumped them I saw a few get smashed on the surface, not really sure what it was.
I clearly saw a tarpon roll on one, that was pretty cool.
The coolest thing was watching a flounder "I didn't even see" Jump up off the bottom and grab a big mullet and swim of with it wriggling around in its mouth.
Sorry no pics or video, it all happened to fast
Edit, Forgot to mention saw several large tilapia nest, so they are in full spawn already.
Got my first freshwater pond flounder angling tonight . Lost another messing around at the bank. It was bigger! Also lots of these CNBG in shallow grass. Maybe late spawn last year? Any way, I could see lots of flounder impressions very shallow, I think they are figuring out a pattern to hunt in the pond. Pretty cool!
WOW, that is VERY COOL!!! It truly has been a lot of fun for me to follow along with your pond Bobby. Flounders, gee whiz....compared to your hot fudge Sunday with whip cream, nuts, and cherries, my ponds are like 2 month old freezer burned vanilla.
That is great bobby! Are you seeing them in the shallows opposite the feeder?
Yes mostly, and on the side closest to the house that has some grass grownig out a little. That is slow sloping and hard bottom too. They are getting right on the edges of the shore and the grass at night. Same pattern Flounder Giggers look for. I'll gotout with a bright light and try and video one or two if I can.
I sure wish I could catch a snapper to verify, that would be the coolest thing for me. Ill try some cut bait and see what happens.
I fished live bait under a bobber for awhile in the pond this weekend. I let it soak and nothing. I tossed some pellets to get some activity going, still nothing. Just as I was starting to think I was dreaming that there are any predator fish in the pond I see my rod go flying out of the back of the truck and land on the gound. It was being drug at a very fast rate along the grass down the shoreline angled at the water. I chased it down and dove one it, rolled around on the ground got the reel and went to set the hook. Just then , Nothing....I came back with an empty hook.
Sorry for the let down...
I later had another take down but it too took the live fish right off the hook.
I pictured that happening and laughed. Been there done that. Even with the bale arm open that has happened. Too busy paying attention elsewhere, heard the noise and looked over just in time to see the rod/reel flip off the cinderblock and head toward the water. The fish took all the line off the spool and kept going. Glad the knot was strong enough to keep the line on the spool else there'd be 150 yards of line in the water attached to a fish. Cranked the arm, recovered a lot of line and then bam up out of the water was a nice 5+ pound largemouth.
Side note, using crab line and a large tri-hook when the bite is slow I've pulled rods, half rods, and lots of lures from bodies of water.
Another sad report, I fished live mullet under a bobber and had 4 takers. I had pretty good sized mullet and none stuck a hook when I went to set it. I didn’t want to wait too long and deep hook a fish but I guess I didn’t wait long enough.
Three were slow grabs and just swam off with it, typical of the tarpon or snook bites I have had in the past.
One was totally different, I saw a decent sized streak under the bobber and then line was ripping off at a very high rate of speed. It was in the middle of the pond in a second. I have never had anything hit that hard and fast other than the time I had that crushing hit that popped the 30 pound braid instantly.
My suspicions are that it was the Jack Crevelle; jacks are extremely strong fast swimmers. The flash I saw didn't look long and silvery like that of a tarpon either.
I’m going to try again with some live mud minnows and see what happens, they are a little smaller than those big mullet I was using.
A little Better report today. I went back and fished live mud minnows.
I tossed pellets to get things warmed up. I had a tarpon rolling all around my bobber. It seemed it could have been rolling on gams but it seemed to be rolling pretty slowly so I think they might be starting to eat the pellets. It didn’t want my mud minnow that's for sure. It was pretty cool watching the silver torpedo just slow roll on the surface.
The rain was coming in and turned into a thunder storm and cut my evening short....
I did however get this Mangrove/Gray Snapper to take my bobber down, right before I had to run for cover.
Im very glad to catch this and discover it the and doing well well in the pond! Actually, I am pretty excited about it!
Ok, so I have been researching and have not found any salinity tolerance for Blue Fish. All I could find is they have a wide range of salinity tolerance. I figured I would give it a shot. I cought a 12 inch bluefish and have been doing "fresh water" water chsnges since 9 am. , adding pond water for water changes the last few hours. Any way, it didn't die "yet" I released it in the pond as I was running out of day. The jury is out.... And here is a video of the release
Had the occasion recently to be diving in Roatan Honduras. A school of about 20 Tarpon had come in from open ocean presumably to rest or feed. There were only four of us on the afternoon dive, two women, myself and the divemaster guide. When the school came up to inspect us the women were noticeably concerned and hung close to the divemaster. I swam out into the school to video them and they being the curious fish they are came directly at me, parting at the last second veering past me only about three feet in front of the camera and cruising within a couple feet of my head. A VERY cool experience. They circled around and made a second pass, then disappeared. Maybe a couple minutes with them total. Most exceeded 5 feet in length and were full adults.
The tarpon tail muscles are so powerful, a few years ago I saw one get spooked for some reason and took off so fast the tail caused the water to cavitate and a bubble maybe an inch or so in diameter resulted where the tail had been and heard a loud "pop" in the water.
VERY cool fish. Viewing them under water they look like they are chrome plated.
I was just checking out the pond yesterday, I saw this flounder glide up near the feeder in preperation for feeding time. seems he has be ambushing around this area.
Bobby, lots of admiration on this forum for green sunfish as a hardy, aggressive, survive at all costs forage/food source for bigger predators. Would they be something to consider in your unique pond scenario?
Just another simple update, I was watching the fish feed after the feeder went off and I saw 6 snook pass by the feeder post and the shallow in front of it. It seemed they were trailing very close behind the koi as they nudged in the grass to grab pellets. Maybe grabing CNBG/tilapia or what ever as the "bull in a china shop" koi grabbed at pellets that drifted into the grass, or just a coincidence. I do not know how many snook are in the pond. I counted 6, hwoever it is very probable that the same one cruised by more than once. Although it did seem that at least two were a slightly different size.
Fatih and Keith fished with me last night and this morning.
hooked and lost two tarpon and a nice snook.
landed a nice flounder, pond record so far.
I am seeing good numbers of CNBG and Tilapia fingerlings around the edges, they should have enough to eat though out the summer as those continue to breed. All fish seemed to be in good weight and I am noticing some growth. Water is a little clearer after removing 15 - 20+ " koi this year. Need to remove 5-10 more and those to big CG still.
Here is another update for those following my pond progress.
I have been wanting to verify what is living in the pond and I have been catching and or hooking the tarpon pretty regular, along with some flounder, snook with one nice surprise snapper.
I have been using live bait and some artificial lures so I figured I would try some dead shrimp just laying one the bottom to see if a red-fish another snapper or with any luck that jack that I am hoping is still in there might pick it up off the bottom.
I go after work yesterday and give it a shot. What do I get you ask? Well I get TWO tarpon ....Geez
EDIT:. after further review they are Flagfish, I must have had some mixed in with the sheepshead minnow excurtions in the marsh.
I messed around in the flooded grass yesterday right about dark. I discovered one of the estuary minnows I planted in the pond has been reproducing. I put in some sheepsshead minnows about two years ago now and thought they had been wiped out and didnt take. I was wrong, I found several that had clearly been born in the pond with a swipe or two of the net in the flooded grass along the banks. (lots of rain).
didnt take it out of the water, looked healthy and good weight. same condition I see them in the intracoastal around here.
the pond has tilapia in it and I am still Amazed to rarely see small tilapia around the pond.
I see a school of large ones when the feeder goes off.
they over winter every year and the school is not getting exponatioally larger...
the predators must just hammer the YOY and juvenile tilapia and thinned them out ....as prolific as they are it seems that would be well fed...I see tilapia nest and do occasionally see a small one hiding around the banks for shelter.
I have not given an update recently so here goes...
I watched the feeder go off yesterday...I saw the two big CG sucking down fish pellets like crazy and too many koi as well. I have removed 15 koi so far but I need to remove another 5 or so for sure. The CG seem to have gotten less spooky and are aggressively feeding right now. I have a couple snag hooks, I'm going to try that.
I saw some GSH around the feeder so some made it though the winter with out getting eaten. I placed some artificial plastic plants in the pond to assist with recruitment, Hopefully it helps.
I saw some smaller CNBG around the feeder but not too many, I know they are breeding but I never see too many YOY at any given time. I think they are getting eaten. In fact I saw a SNOOK come up and target one, I could not tell if he actually got it as it swam back out to deeper water.
Male tilapia have visible nest around the shallows already too. As prolific as tilapia can be I don't see lots of YOY or babies for that matter. I does not seem that the adult population of growing out of control either. I think the predators really target them over the CNBG due to body shape. It is pretty hard to tell how many adults I actually have though I only see them at feeding time but it does not seem like to pond is over populated with them.
Bobby, Cool video. If you could get close to the feeder by foot or boat could you not use a cast net to get those grass carp?
You said you had 4 LCS in your forage pond? They may have offspring or maybe you can source a few more? Someday maybe I'll have lots in my pond and can help you out.
I sold those last two Koi on craigslist for $150, Considering I gave "cray" 3 put 4 in the garden and traded the rest to a pet store that went out of business before I could cash in on much of my store credit....SWEET!
Now I can Buy more fish food to replace some of the food they ate. Ill try to get another one or two out this week or weekend.
Who knows I might have to stick a live bait under a bobber and get you guys a picture of one of the predators.
Now I have some guy from Craig's list telling,me he would take 4-5 big ones if I can get them. Guess ill be doing some Koi fishing this weekend....Ill post some pictures if I get anything.
Bobby, I've found the higher priced (i.e. quality name brands) of whole kernel corn holds up better on the hooks, and the individual kernels are bigger too. The cheap stuff is fine to use for chumming.
OH, good to know........I actually bought the cheap stuff because I was "just Fishing". I did notice the kernel size was all over the map, I will up grade.
How might hominy differ from corn? Anybody tried it? Seems like it might stay on a hook a little better.
Never tried it but think it should work. When I was a kid, there was an old guy that fished them all the time and he used canned small brussel sprouts.
well I harassed the koi all weekend, tried cast net at feeder time, Corn, bread balls and worms and got no interest. I found a pack of stubby Steve's I had put in the freezer and tried them. I got no lookers then finally one fell for the bait. It was the biggest one yet. the thing had to be close to an 8 pound fish. This makes 19 total including another one I forgot about a month or so ago...
Every one has gotten really spooky so I will have to let the sit for awhile and get back into a feeding pattern with out harassment I think.
So in total I have removed 19 pretty big koi and one very big Grass carp so far, this has to be helping a little. I still have two big grass carp to remove, I might end up shooting those things.
Craigslist yielded $75 bucks for it so that's another positive.
I did see a snook and a couple flounder imprints around the bank in very shallow water. Looks like the flounder are back in the summer nighttime feeding pattern along the shallows.
I counted 11 at the feeder yesterday, so I have removed more than half. I'm gonna focus on those grass carp now. Lethal this time.. I think the eel grass might actually grow some with them gone. I also noticed the water clearity was improved too, along with some FA development... Funny how that works.. It was not too much though, I think the tilapia help In that regard.
Scored some baby Lake Chub Suckers at the aquaculture place near me. Got 50 lil Yoy from him. Going to grow them out here in my planted pool. Hope to get them to size in a year and plant in the pond for additional forage species.
Those with a keen eye will notice the hitch hikers. 7 games mixed in with them after sorting. Goes to show how easy it can happen.
Well done! Hope they thrive! I envy the forage diversity you're building. To me that is like buying life "assurance" for your predators. Pellets are great but I have yet to see one reproduce and become a sustained population!
It has been awhile but here is an update you might enjoy.....
I got a large weighted snag hook with the intent to snag one of the big GC that I want to remove. I went to the pond around feeder set time, I arrived 30 mins early and got bored. I tossed in a live bait to see if I could get lucky waiting. I soon had a nice snook on and it popped my 12 pond mono. I tried another live bait...BOOM, hooked up and a leaping display reveled a nice fat looking snook at the end of my line. I thought sweet......It then bulldogged me and the snook prevailed even with a lose drag, they are just so fast when they hit the gas it breaks things...... I again hooked up and quickly popped the 12 pond test with drag screaming....That makes three.......
Finally the 4th fish seems to be staying on as it rules me for awhile.... It actually dove down and got hung up in what turned out to be one of the Xmas trees I had put in awhile back.......Stuck it was.......I then emptied my pockets and went for a swim to free it. Once back on shore soaking wet I finished the fight and netted it,Called a nearby friend to take a photo as I figured It would be nice to have some proof...
bad part is three snook have hooks in them and the one I landed was hooked in its right eyeball.....at least Ill know if I land it again...Ill call it ole one eye....
I never did see the GC once the feeder went off 30 mins after I arrived and all this commotion took place...
Based on what general fish knowledge I do have they seem to be in good weight. I have looked online and fishing forums to judge the body condition of juvenile medium sized snook caught in the estuaries and or beaches around the area and these seem to be in as good a condition as any I have seen.
I really should have taken a measurement of some sort, I am always I a hurry to get a quick picture and release them.
saw a few impressions in the sand awhile back. They go into a night time shallow water feeding pattern during the summer. I need to walk the banks with a spot light soon and check things out.
I hung around the feeder today and saw a good amount of smaller CNG and TP around the shallows. I saw three snook cruising back and forth eyeballing them. They sure do hang tight to the banks, makes me wonder how the predators get to them. Boy you can tell they are scared to venture too far out. I think I really need a more open water forage fish. I have been steadily adding GSH but cant get any numbers of them built up.
Also, After months/years of frustration I was able to get this thing out of the pond. One more to go....
Soaked dead shrimp in the pond today after work to see if I can confirm any redfish exist in the pond.,
I caught this instead.... I had freshly re-lined my real with new braid, fluorocarbon leader and circle hook. Felt good to be confident my gear would hold during its 5 aerial assaults on it.
Oh, I also caught 2, 10" CNBG but I didn't photo them.
I didn't actually stock them, not 100% sure how they got in but since discovery I have managed around them and they seem to have grown. the discovery of them was a catalyst to look more into salt water EURYHALINE fish living in ponds.
They seem to be in good weight and condition for sure.
If you have been following this thread you know I have been experimenting with managing a pond that fish are typically saltwater species but have a wide range of salinity tolerance. Much like the salmon we are all familiar with. I have a freshwater holding pond set up so I can better see the results of the initial acclimation to fresh water.
I have ruled out blue fish and Speckled sea trout as one that would have success in a fresh water pond. They just don't hold up in the pure fresh water for long but seem to do fine with very little salinity. Actually the blue fish survived longer in fresh water than the Sea trout which is surprising.
The fish that seem to do the best are Snook, tarpon Southern Flounder.
Mangrove snapper, redfish and Jack crevalle seem to be viable candidates too. Still waiting to see how they perform in a small freshwater pond over time.
I just wanted to give an update and say I have given up on the Sea trout and the Blue fish was a shot in the dark that came closer to working than I thought they would have. The Blue Fish survived about 6 hours in fresh water before it would succumb to zero salinity. The trout seem to fade right as the salinity approaches zero .
Bobby, I'm still amazed at how well the project is going with the fish that you DO have in the pond! Keep us informed with updates, that is a unique pond for sure!!
Ok my first negative report of the condition of any predator fish in the pond . If you recall a report I had earlier this last summer about hooking a bunch of snook and I hooked one in the eye ball. As I finished filming and looked at this fish more before I released it I noticed it's one eye was all messed up and I knew it was ole one eye . As soon as I saw the fish I could tell it was not in as healthy condition as I am used to seeing. The eye was all healed up , I think it is is not as effective at hunting with one eye..... snook are more of a stalker than an ambush predator so I think it's effecting it. Unless all the fish are skinny and the tilapia and blue gill are not making enough babies...
Im gonna try to arrange an electroshock boat in the pond next spring...
Here is the little video, ... was 80 today but the water was still a little chilly. (Comparatively speaking)
Bobby I saw a post of yours in a BCP thread about wanting to feed your Tarpon. Not wanting to hijack that thread decided to address it here in your thread.
I'll tell you some of my limited knowledge gained by diving with them. I dive daily through the winter and see Tarpon very regularly. Not daily, but at least several times a week. The ones I see are nearly always in the 4 to 5 ft. length range.
I rarely see them go after a fish during the day. Most of my sightings they are lounging mid water a short ways out away from the reef. If approached carefully can get within ten or so feet but ocasionally closer. Not much helpful feeding information for daytime.
But night is a different story. It is rare to get through a night dive without one or more Tarpon showing up. They have learned to hunt by divers lights. They will come from behind cruising right past the diver, sometimes within inches of our heads but usually about arms length away and swim lazily right in our light path. We have learned to move our light away from their path to keep them moving in different directions because if we do not they will target a sleepy fish and nail it. It is really weird to watch. They look like sidewinder missles. They do not go in a straiht path to the fish but wander back and forth, side to side as if they are using some kind of sonar rather than sight. Or maybe it is just that their sight is not that keen in the low light and they are alternating which eye is seeing the fish. Sometimes as they get really close to the fish they will turn almost upside down for the last incremental manuver when they capture the fish.
I did a pre dawn dive about a month ago and two Tarpon showed up and stayed with me right up until there was just enough light from sunrise for me to partially see without the dive light. Then they were instantly gone.
Ok, for the part that might be helpful to your feeding them. Because of the way I have observed them feeding in subdued light, it is my belief that most of their feeding is done in twilight of dusk and dawn as well as on moonlight nights. I've seen them hanging around the dock on moonlight nights or if there is a lighted dock tarpon will be around it. I think they feed on non-nocturnal slugish fish as the fish are getting ready to go to sleep or getting ready to wake up. When light is good enoguh for the tarpon to slightly see but the target fish is sluggish. They don't make a racing run at the fish until the last foot or two. More like a slightly increased speed methodical homing in on them. Bobbing lazily back and forth as they home in on their target.
So you might want to try going out to your pond at night with a flashliht and give them some light to fish by or install a low wattage dock light. Solar yard light might work. I think this will give the tarpon a feeding advantage.
We avoid doing that while diving by not focusing a light on any single fish for long. If the tarpon heads toward a fish we move the liht away so they loose contact, only to circle around and try again.
My grandson was here to dive with me for a couple weeks and I watched him target a fish with his light on a night dive and let the tarpon get it. It is fun to do once just to watch it happen but I wagged my finger at him to not do it again. The Tarpon have already gained a bad habit of hunting by divers lights and we do not need to give them an unfair advantage at cleaning out the reefs fish population.
I can tell you I do notice a lot of night time feeding with several of the fish species I have discovered in the pond. I know that snook are nocturnal feeders , one night saw a snook nosed up into some grass stalking something and had its back completely out of the water.
During the spring and summer months I can walk around the banks in the morning see flounder impressions in water only inches deep from the night before. I have walked the banks at night with a flash light and seen them laying in the shallows waiting to ambush something.
I have heave read that Mangrove snapper and tarpon are also nocturnal feeders and often have the best luck seeing activity in very low light.
The one thing that does make them more active during the day light is when I am delayed resetting the feeder time once the days get long and the time changes. They tend to circle around looking for a meal. I will often see a tarpon "Roll" after something. They tend to strike with an upward sideways roll. It produces a nice silver flash when they do it, its really cool to watch. You don't see them then all of a sudden this big silver flash and you know something got nailed.
Bobby, I'd be interested to see how fishing would be for you if you cast a jitterbug all over the pond and did a slow retrieve back at night. THAT might be interesting!
Swam past a 5' tarpon a couple days ago in a mid/late afternoon dive. Was at about 60' depth. All of a sudden the fish turns up towards the surface and I watch it hastily go from about 60' to about 10'. Straight up. Never saw one do that.
Then after it broke off its accent and started to come back down to depth, noticed something floating on the surface maybe the size of a tennis ball. Don't know what it was cause could only see the shape from that depth.
The tarpon had spotted what it thought was potential food, made a bee line straight up, and broke off only when it could see it was not what it wanted. Pretty cool. I had no idea they would even pay attention to something on the surface from that depth, let alone go after it.
We are in a drought here, the pond is pretty low and the artesian well has stopped flowing. One good rain should get it flowing back again. I hope we get one soon, don't want the pond to get super hot while its this low.
I stalked the feeder at set time in hopes to pick off the one last grass carp in the pond. I saw it briefly but it sure has gotten spooky.
While I was posted up I saw a flounder swim by the feeder , saw a tarpon roll on a feeding fish or minnow. I saw a couple snook prowling around the base of the feeder post looking for an easy meal.
I also saw something swiping in at small fish feeding on pellets but it was so fast a literally could not see what it was. My suspicion it could be one of those snapper.
If you recall I hooked a snook in the eye ball awhile back, I call it ole one eye. I saw it come up into very shallow water and boy does it look bad. It was emaciated and has missing scales and doesn't look healthy at all. I guess the way snook stalk pry having one eye is a real disadvantage. It is a real shame. I think it will end up dying here soon.
I will (try to) set the go pro at the feeder base this weekend and see if I can get some under water action.
Took a buddy to the pond Saturday to fish and we got four of these things, here is a pic of two of them. They look really healthy. They seem to be hammering the CNBG and TP. Finally got a little rain, hope keeps raining for awhile.
They are getting fatter! More pond Snook after work last Friday. They sure do like dead shrimp right on the bottom, I got two of them. I was alone so you get my best effort of a "snook Selfie"
Nice to see you check in with the Snook progress Bobby.
How is the flounder doing?
All I can catch is snook as of late. I have seen a tarpon feeding , saw a flounder swim by the feeder awhile back. But the snook are feeding heavily and I cant get past them. After landing one or two the fish seem to scatter away.
That last snook did take drag all the way out to the middle of the pond before he tired out. That one is starting to get some girth. They are like walleye, don't get girth until they get a certain length.
it was a long cold week here in north FL, it got down to 28 a couple nights and didn't get over 40 for nearly a week. The Intercostal waterway near me has lots of floating dead snook and tarpon.
I let the artesian well run all week and monitored the water temp in the pond. It didn't get blow 51 as far as I can tell and no dead fish that I can tell.
I know the water temp in the shallow canals around the area was down to 45-46 degrees and 48 in the bigger water. The water in the canals and waterway has strong tides and the water mixes rapidly and chills faster than it does in a still pond is my theory. Plus the 74 degree water flowing from the well has to help too.
Back into the 70's today so things should warm back up.
RER, Explain please. The water from the well is 74 degrees? Is this from ground water? How does it stay 74 degrees or does it stay above water to warm up first? Our feeding and eating season would be much longer if we could pump 74 degree well water into our ponds all winter
The water that comes out of the well is 74 degrees year round. mine is tapped into the Floridian aquifer approx 300 ft down, it free flows with natural head pressure. However my shallow ground water well is approx. 72-74 degrees also. I think this has been able to keep the pond above lethal temps during the rare extended cold weather we get about every 5 years.
Wow, amazing, I thought underground water was the same temp from north to south (I assumed a little variation) based on the insulating qualities of land? The gypsum mines by us are used for 'cold storage' for business records and data tapes etc since they stay about 52 degrees year around.
If you went 100 feet down and created a storage cavern in N florida wouldn't the air temps in that cavern still be 52 degrees? If so how does the ground water stay at 72-74?
I do notice that our ground water does get colder in winter somehow. I say that only because the water from the tap (well) is much colder sooner when taking a drink or brushing teeth in winter and the setting on the hot water heater has to be turned up a fuzz to get to the same setting on the shower mixer handle. It takes more hot water to mix with the colder cold water to get the same comfort temp in the shower so you notice the mixer handle is at a different position.
You probably save lots of energy when your hot water heater brings the temp from 72 to 102 deg or 103 deg vs our 48 or 50 to 102 or 103!
Can you imagine if you had access to a warm spring up here in the northern wastelands and could pump 78 deg water into your pond all winter. You would have an awesome growing season and fish would love their 'hottub'
Since I do no know exactly what and how many of each of the unusual fish are in the pond. I decided to buy a cheap fish tagging kit. When the water warms up in the next 4-6 weeks ill start fishing again. This way I will know if I have been catching the same few fish or if there are more numbers than expected. I plan on taking measurements to track growth. Although simply by catch photo and release over the last few years I have seen definite growth. It will be more helpful to know more details and I think this will help me figure out the best way for future management of this little pond.
In general deep ground water and soil temperatures will generally be the average long-term climate temperature. Here in NY I believe we are in the low 50's. Just across the lake in Canada, in the upper 40's. Their tap water feels like ice on hot summer days. Thus geothermal cooling is very efficient and cost-effective in the summer if added to a house of new construction. It is painful to get hot water out of it though, you are right, it is expensive to heat this cold water up! Popular in the 70's was to put solar pre-heaters on the roof, but they were prone to leaks and freezing up in the winter.
In general deep ground water and soil temperatures will generally be the average long-term climate temperature. Here in NY I believe we are in the low 50's. Just across the lake in Canada, in the upper 40's. Their tap water feels like ice on hot summer days. Thus geothermal cooling is very efficient and cost-effective in the summer if added to a house of new construction. It is painful to get hot water out of it though, you are right, it is expensive to heat this cold water up! Popular in the 70's was to put solar pre-heaters on the roof, but they were prone to leaks and freezing up in the winter.
I was actually asking on thoughts about tagging the fish and the current water temps in the pond.
Operation Koi removal continues, got this giant out this weekend. She is very full of eggs.
I will begin fishing with live bait and tagging predators once the water stays above 70 degrees. It was up to 71 but then we started having nights into the 40 for a few weeks and it dropped down to 68 degrees.
YEA BUDDY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Finally got it, last of the grass carp removed. With this and the two koi I bet I easily removed 50 pounds of biomass in three fish in the last week.
Went out after work and soaked a live bait to start my tagging project. I hooked up with a tarpon and enjoyed several large arial displays. I Got it near the shore and thought I had it tired out. I was getting my net in anticipation of measuring and tagging it. Well, it had one last effort and spit the hook. As disappointing as that was I was encouraged at the over all condition. It seemed to be in good body mass, especially for just coming out of the coldest winter we have had in a decade.
Hey Bobby, I love hearing your updates. For a midwesterner, your pond sounds so exotic. Tarpon, flounder, snook, in a pond??? SWEET. Congrats on the success with the gc and koi. I know that has been a thorn in your project.
Good luck with the tagging project. This will be the 4th year for me. Another thing I picked up from the PB'ers, and glad I did.
Yesterday I was checking out utube a stumbled across some video of koy selling for as much as $10,000.00 bucks each for the larger 20+" sized ones. Shame you were not able to market the koy's. Would have bought a lot of fish food for your "Special" pond. Hope all is well at the pond after this long cold winter.
Did you ever try some of the Red fish drum in the pond?
I have decided I need to add some adult breeder sized CNBG to the pond.
I have been looking at other ponds in this area and have been seeing loads of 2-4 inch CNBG around the shore line. I barely see any in mine. I don't think I have enough breeders to keep up with the demand little CNBG snack pops.
First of all I would like to introduce Snook # 887, Caught, tagged and released this morning. 20" long and is in outstanding condition and great body weight. Im not able to pull a weight but the fish clearly has some belly fat and was thick for a snook of this size.
Also, The plant cages are working greatly for the lily pads.
Meet Snook # 888 18.5 inches...Caught and released this evening.
Ill need to do more research but I think this one might be a "Fat Snook", a much more less known species of snook than the "common snook". I am not sure, I wish I had better Pics to compare now. If so, it is extremely rare to find them in North Florida.
RER, I miss your updates and cool pictures. Are you still checking in and what is going on with the fishing in your pond? any new comers who haven't seen this thread, start at the beginning and enjoy!
I think this will post the pic.. been awhile and doing from phone ..
Any way tarpon are very slow growing fish.. this one seems to have grown a bit but looks very fat.. jumped about 5 ft in the air several times .. was super fun.
The upload manager seems to be broken yet. Bummer. Been busted for a while no idea why.
THANKS FOR COMING BACK!! Love your posts and updates. Don't give up on posting pictures, hopefully it will be fixed soon. I'll try to add this picture for you. It looks like if you posted it in the gallery I can get it to embed in the link since the picture is already hosted online in the gallery. Hopefully we can get the attachment manager working for pictures attached to actual posts.
If I had them in the pond I know that number would increase.
![[Linked Image]](https://forums.pondboss.com/gallery/49/full/18812.jpg)