Pond Boss
Posted By: jpws Bluegill Identification - with photos - 08/04/19 09:33 PM
I'd appreciate your comments on what I have here. Apparently there were a few more fish in my pond when i stocked it than i thought.

Fish 1 - (notice the "hint" of redear). this one is much bigger than what was stocked 45 days ago. the true RES that i stocked 45 days ago were 2-3" max.



Fish 2 ( i suppose this is same type/mix as #1 - lil fatty. it has the same "red" on it as #1 but more GSF coloring on it)




Fish 3 im guessing this one is one of the hybrid bluegill just stocked?? if so, it has grown quite a bit in 45 days



FIsh 4 - this one does not have the "red" on the "ear" ( similar to #3) but has more of a GSF coloring on the rear part of body. Is this a HBG?





On the bed - whatever #1 and #2 is, this one is on a bed in about 8" of water a foot off the bank. I noticed it there 2 days ago and it hasn't left. i was 18" away when i took the pic.

Posted By: Snipe Re: Bluegill Identification - with photos - 08/05/19 04:17 AM
All except #3 have mostly GSF. #3 is a hybrid but I believe it is RESxBG, I see no GSF in that fish.
Posted By: jpws Re: Bluegill Identification - with photos - 08/05/19 12:27 PM
Thanks. DO GSF have a hit of a Redear as #1 and #2 do?

With that said, should i be removing any that has GSF in them?

Thanks
#1 and #2 strongly resemble my smaller HBG (offspring from the original stocked fish). My pond is pretty muddy and they do not have as much color as yours, but most males do have the red on the flap.

I agree with Snipe...#3 looks RES-ish.

#4 is the most GSF looking, but might have some HBG in it.

None of them strike me as pure GSF.

Originally Posted By: jpws
Thanks...should i be removing any that has GSF in them?

Thanks


I don't recall what you stocked or your goals, but GSF traits can grow some big hybrids...



Posted By: Snipe Re: Bluegill Identification - with photos - 08/05/19 05:27 PM
Just to be clear on my above post, I agree they are not pure GSF but #3 is the only one with no yellow/orange under belly/fins.
Posted By: Bill Cody Re: Bluegill Identification - with photos - 08/06/19 01:43 AM
I think #3 is a pure strain BG. What features does anyone see that take it out of pure BG?
Posted By: Snipe Re: Bluegill Identification - with photos - 08/06/19 02:53 AM
I thought the mouth and operculum looked a bit different, but maybe you are correct Bill. Seems they all have differing traits in different areas.
Never seen a pure black spot like that in my ponds.
Posted By: jpws Re: Bluegill Identification - with photos - 08/06/19 12:38 PM
#3 is what all the so called "HBG" looked like when i stocked them. All had the vertical purple'ish stripes. I just didn't recall there being any that large.
Posted By: Bill Cody Re: Bluegill Identification - with photos - 08/06/19 02:36 PM
Vertical purplish stripes are common on northern BG in the 4"-7" size range. IMO coloration of #3 is spot on for northern BG. Mouth size on #3 is also characteristic of pure stain BG. Also in my experience for #3 notice how long and pointed the pectoral fin is. I have done lots of fin measurements. The pectoral fin posterior almost and often actually reaches the front or 1st spine of the anal fin. This never happens with a HBG because the pectoral fin of GSF is short and round. Pay attention to this when you see BG, HBG GSF. RES pectoral fin is also as long as or longer than that of a pure BG.
Posted By: jpws Re: Bluegill Identification - with photos - 08/06/19 05:11 PM
Yikes - hopefully i didn't get 300 BG - when i was supposed to have received HBG. ALl these fish came from Central Arkansas. i will put out a trap today and catch several small one and take more pix.

thanks
Posted By: ewest Re: Bluegill Identification - with photos - 08/07/19 03:15 PM
Agree with Bill # 3 is a BG. The rest are HBG.
Posted By: jpws Re: Bluegill Identification - with photos - 08/07/19 06:13 PM
OK - So, if #3 is a BG ( and not a HBG) i think i'm screwed...or got screwed, and got all BG instead of getting HBG.
I set out a minnow trap and caught a few....of which most look like #3. The middle fish in the 4th pic, and on the bottom pic - the top 2 are certainly GSF'ish...if not full on. I'm guessing those were already in my pond - and, appears that the FAT ones are NOT the ones i just put in.






Posted By: ewest Re: Bluegill Identification - with photos - 08/07/19 07:05 PM
Last pic below - top 2 fish are GSF (may be HBG) and bottom 2 are BG.

If you have GSF and BG you may be making your own HBG.
Posted By: jpws Re: Bluegill Identification - with photos - 08/07/19 07:46 PM
This is realllly frustrating to have gotten all BG when i asked for HBG. does anyone have a 2-4" pic of a HBG for comparison?
Trying to determine what i need to go.....seine it, and start over with 2-4" HBG....or just roll with it, but add more HSB. (plan on starting with 15).

With that said, I suppose i now have 300BG (instead of HBG) + a mix'ish of a few GSF/BG that were in there when i started.
Posted By: ewest Re: Bluegill Identification - with photos - 08/08/19 03:04 PM
What is your goal for the pond? That will determine the best path forward.

Have you looked at this thread?

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=256325&page=1

BG sexing and id
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=157117&page=1


http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=103883&fpart=1


















Posted By: jpws Re: Bluegill Identification - with photos - 08/08/19 04:08 PM
Thanks EWEST for those links. Very educations and good info for sure.
My goal for the pond is to have my drag ripped out of my ultralight by a bigazz "bream" every afternoon after work with a cocktail in hand. If that means i start over and take some out....or take alot out, or seine, and cull certain ones....i'm up for it.
Thanks

Fixed it - see below

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=157117&page=1
Posted By: ewest Re: Bluegill Identification - with photos - 08/08/19 04:43 PM
Are you going to stock predator fish to eat the BG , HBG etc.?
Ewest,
seems the second link on your earlier post is broken. I'd like to bookmark them for future reference, can you check the second one?
Posted By: Bill Cody Re: Bluegill Identification - with photos - 08/08/19 08:54 PM
Keep in mind that my pictures that ewest posted above are adult mature BG at least 8" long. Generally for smaller BG individuals the body characteristics are not as pronounced.

Note - all the fish in the above pics except two above by jpws are pure strain BG. The two larger fish in the last picture are HBG. Notice the vertical body stripes on most of those smaller BG in jpws's pictures.
Posted By: jpws Re: Bluegill Identification - with photos - 08/09/19 03:10 PM
Bill - and the two larger ( fat) fish you noted as HBG i think were my "home made" fish that were already in the pond. Everything i put in were BG ( the top 3 pix) despite being told i was getting HBG.

So, given i have some mixture of Mutt HBG in there already i suppose i let it run to create more of a Mutt mixture???....or clean it out and start over.

My original plan was to put in 15-20 HSB as predator fish.
BUT, now that I've realized that i have pond full of primarily BG ( vs HBG), should than change my predator fish strategy? Do i put in more HSB to control the explosion of BG ( if so, how many in a .2 acre pond), or go LMB? And finally, i suppose the HSB would be 3-5".....or would one suggest any larger, and if there any benefit ( or not) to stocking those this Fall, or wait until SPring20.

Suggestions are appreciated!
Thanks!
Posted By: Bill Cody Re: Bluegill Identification - with photos - 08/10/19 01:39 AM
Ideally you should have some 9"-12" bass to immediately start eating those 3" BG so they do not over populate in the next few years. If you don't have access to the larger LMB you can build or buy a clover leaf fish trap that will catch hundreds of those 2"-4" BG before winter. You don't want all those BG spawning next spring or you will have BG overpopulation. In spring before the spawn add the fingerling LMB or if you have fish small enough (1") for fingerling bass to eat then add small bass asap. You can add HSB with LMB and both will eat small BG but the LMB will be the best BG eaters.

Build a trap
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5DNd0ubSGE
How it works - catching them
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQUsdAR7N6Q

Buying Try: eBay cloverleaf fish trap
https://www.memphisnet.net
Posted By: jpws Re: Bluegill Identification - with photos - 08/12/19 09:56 PM
IS the reason you are suggesting predators to start eating now, because i stocked BG instead of HBG?

i stocked 300 BG ( supposed to be HBG) and 100 RES 45 days ago.
My guess is that there were 50?? in their prior to stocking.
i've never seen any "fry" whatsoever.

ALso i'm building a trap tomorrow. I'll report what i catch.
Posted By: snrub Re: Bluegill Identification - with photos - 08/13/19 01:04 PM
Here is a thread with a bunch of pictures of RESxGSF hybrids and potential hybrids to help with identification.

GSF always have a translucent orangish or whitish border on their opercular tab. Some are more prominent that others. At times in the past I think I have mistaken a GSF for a hybrid with some RES in it because the particular GSF just had a more pronounced orangish border.

What I find in the ones I am sure are hybrid RESxGSF (because they came from a pond with no BG) is 1. the border is darker and more solid rather than translucent and 2. often is "broken" rather than being a consistent color around the entire border. You can see some very good examples of this on page 6 of the thread.

RESxGSF hybrid thread
I think they are really pretty fish. I had a forage pond with mostly RES but a few GSF and created loads of RESxGSF hybrids from that pond. I really like them.
If you have a BG with anything other than a "solid" ear tab, it is a hybrid of some persuasion.

Good luck on your BG management.
Posted By: jpws Re: Bluegill Identification - with photos - 08/13/19 05:05 PM
fantastic - thanks for the pix. Those fish are pigs!
I'm trying to determine if i should REMOVE some of the 300 BG that are 1-3" from my pond that were just stocked..

Today my fish supplier admitted that the photos I showed them of the fish i got were BG, and not HBG. ( just as all of you confirmed).
Given what i had in there already was a natural cross of BG and GSH, my homemade Hybrid of sorts, should i now leave all those in and cut back on the # of BG - those that i just stocked? The supplier was very sorry and said the guys must have scooped from the wrong box. They said they'd bring me from 4 hrs away some larger size HSB or LMB, and/or larger size HBG - my choice, however many i want.




QUESTION -
1. should i trash some of the BG just stocked, and leave all the mutts?
2. PRedator - should i add LMB AND HSB, or just one or the other - and, how many of each.
3. I'm putting out 2 cloverleaf traps today. Do i trash some BG, or let the predators i will put in soon take care of them?



And, BTW, here is a video link of hand feeding them this morning. A 12oz cup of hand thrown Optimal is gone pretty much as fast as it hits the water.

https://vimeo.com/353629233

Posted By: SWMO 2 Re: Bluegill Identification - with photos - 08/13/19 05:52 PM
I would personally leave then and just add whatever else you want especially if you have or plan to add bass to the pond. Hybrids don't reproduce well and more forage is always better.
Posted By: jpws Re: Bluegill Identification - with photos - 08/14/19 06:05 PM
Guys -

Based on the link provided above, I made my own fish traps. They are not perfect by any means, but i think they will do the job. smile







QUESTION -
1. Should i trash some of the BG that were just stocked that I catch in the traps, and leave all the mutts? (and replace the same # of BG removed with HBG that the fish farm will replace)

2. Predators - should i add LMB AND HSB, or just one or the other - and, how many of each given the size is .20 acres?
Posted By: Bill Cody Re: Bluegill Identification - with photos - 08/15/19 02:01 AM
Do you have any current LMB or HSB? The LMB-HSB should be big enough to immediately eat some of the most abundant small fish. To survive the new predators need to immediately begin eating food. HSB are always pellet trained so if they are small they can eat pellets until they are big enough to eat the smallest fish. Unless small LMB 3"-4" are pellet trained they will struggle to survive if no small 1" fish are present. At 0.2 ac you can have around total 20-25 predators when too many small BG are present. Then a few predators can be removed when they gain control of the sunfish. LMB and HSB will survive well together. the smaller the predators are the more toward 20 that will thrive. The larger they are toward 14"-16" the fewer the number more toward 10-14. Higher number of predator toward the 20-25 the fewer and larger the average sunfish will be.
Posted By: jpws Re: Bluegill Identification - with photos - 08/15/19 01:19 PM
Thanks so much for the specifics Bill.

No - i don't have any predators at all in there now. I will get 20 or so split LMB and HSB, as large as i can get. I'm uncertain what size they have right now. Also i'm getting some larger size HBG as well, and will remove ( with traps) as many BG that i replace with HBG.
Posted By: Bobbss Re: Bluegill Identification - with photos - 08/15/19 04:57 PM
What you really want in your pond is HBG and HSB right? Since your not talking large numbers, could your fish guy give you same sex LMB to help get the BG out, and not have to worry about them spawning. Then you could fish them out later if you didn't need or want them?
Posted By: jpws Re: Bluegill Identification - with photos - 08/19/19 08:50 PM
I'm trying to remove as many BG from the pond as possible using traps over the past few days. Tomorrow i will be adding 5-6" HSB and 300 HBG ( to replace the 300BG i put in 2 months ago). Also I dropped a few 8-10" Smallmouth in yesterday - maybe they can control a few small ones as well. Who knows if they will survive in the high temp water, but worth a shot.

I did catch a few of these little guys - of which, I did NOT put any this size in when i stocked 2 months ago. How hold is this fish? If there are a "few", there probably as many?!??!
Posted By: Bill Cody Re: Bluegill Identification - with photos - 08/20/19 01:54 AM
I think the BG in the above picture looks to be 1.75"(44mm) was spawned in 2019 probably in May in AK. It could grow 0.5mm to 1mm per day with good food. Thus if hatched May 20 at 7mm long and to Aug 19 = 95days X 0.5mm/day(47mm growth); thus (7mm hatchling + 47mm growth = 54mm, 2.1") is close to the size of your above small BG.
You very likely will have a couple more hatches of BG after the first hatch that likely produced the above fish; newly hatched small BG that are likely too small to be retained by your new homemade 1/2" mesh fish traps. Thus you should have adequate food for the new HSB & LMB that you will stock. Return to tell us how long the fish were that the fishfarm sold you. They for sure bought the HSB that you receive. Get some a little (5-10lbs) of their fish food from them to suppliment HSB foods. Ask if the LMB are pellet trained.
How many BG are you catching for each trap set?
Posted By: ewest Re: Bluegill Identification - with photos - 08/20/19 05:53 PM
Agree with Bill. Depending on food available that BG looks to be about 90 days +-.
Posted By: jpws Re: Bluegill Identification - with photos - 08/20/19 07:34 PM
Thanks for the feedback on the age of the small fish. As of now i have nothing in there than can eat them.....as i think the 4 Smallmouth (8-10") that i put in didn't survive (i know at least 2 didn't).


Ok - i think i got the right fish this time. smile
I got 300 HBG that averaged in the 4" range (3-5"), and 21 HSB that averaged 5" (4-6")- and 2 lbs of FHM.
I only caught/removed about 25BG in the trap last night, but will continue trapping and weed them out little by little each day.



So, my questions - given the fact that i have 300BG, 300HBG, 100RES, plus stragglers from the 20 mutts i put in last fall that produced the small fry above, 21 HSB stocked today, + 3 grass carp 10-12" in the pond - AM I GROSSLY OVERLOADED FOR A .20 ACRE POND? ALso to note, today when i put them in the water temp was 85 degrees.

All the HSB and HBG stocked today seem to have transitioned fine, at least while i was there,...however about half the minnows died.


And yes, the HSB and HBG are pellet trained....and i feed Optimal Jr daily.


8/22/19 update - i have 2 traps out with NO bait. Each of the past 2 days i've caught about 50 total fish in the traps....and of the 50, 42 were HBG just stocked, only 5 (of the 300) BG, and 3 HSB. I intend to keep doing this daily until i get sick of it trying to remove as many BG as possible. As of now, i've taken out about 35-40 total, of the 300 stocked. ALso i put in one 10" largemouth so he can start some immediate cleanup of the small fry while the HSB grow up.


Posted By: Snipe Re: Bluegill Identification - with photos - 08/20/19 08:36 PM
If the minnows were just hauled in, that doesn't surprise me. They can handle amazing amounts of stress in low water quality situations and I have seen exactly the opposite from transportation.
FHM do best when sedated and released from that water, they slowly transition back to full speed metabolism.
Posted By: jpws Re: Bluegill Identification - with photos - 08/26/19 01:36 PM
Update - as of today i've removed about 55 +/- BG using the cloverleaf traps . The vast majority of what goes in the trap are the freshly stocked HBG. On average I catch 25 fish per trap per day, with no bait.

I have found 4 dead HSB, and saw one more this morning on his last leg - swimming slowly near the top gasping for air, so a little worried about them all making it. There could be more dead in the grass along the edges that I've not yet seen, which worries me. Hopefully the other 15 or so, plus the SMB and 2LMB make it and go some BG damage control.

We did get a nice rain on Friday and Saturday that raised the water level about 4-5", which was much needed. My "drains" that were put in to collect runoff seem to be working well as when we get a good rain there is a stead inflow of water.
Posted By: Bill Cody Re: Bluegill Identification - with photos - 08/26/19 03:10 PM
You should be able to recognize how many HSB that survived when you hand feed the pellets. Very fast flash surface splashes for pellets will be the HSB which travel in schools; traits from each of the parents. With BG present which you will never eliminate, you will have to reconcile with having BG which can grow large if well managed with good pellet feeding, maintaining proper sized predators, and wise BG harvest.
© Pond Boss Forum