Would like some help on the sex of these fish.

Also I think one may be a RES. If the one in the picture is a RES I may have caught two today as another had a faint orange tab. If they are RES the red/orange tab was barely visible light orange and very narrow.

All these fish were stocked as fingerling's just over a year ago. Caught 12 like these today to transfer to daughters pond to help stock it. Already added 8 a week or two ago. Kind or worried I am catching mostly male off the spawning beds. That is why I would like some help on the ones I took time to take pictures of.

Thanks in advance.

Ok, I'm going to embarrass myself and make a guess on each one as noted in the description.

All female except the last male

3rd is a cross breed don't think RES

Is 013 BG or RES?

Both

I'd say BG crossed with something like GSF or pumpkinseed not sure just kinda quessing..

I'd trust him over me any day lol

I wondered about it being hybrid since the tab was very faint. The body shape and speckled markings also made me think of RES.

BG is what I bought to stock but was told there were a few RES mixed in, so I would assume the RES were not specifically mixed in the batch but was natural reproduction within his BG ponds. So hybrids could be a distinct possibility.

013 is curious to me. Larger mouth, striations on cheeks, light fin bordering, some GSF in the mix somewhere? The general body dynamics and smaller opercular do tend to favor a RES, but the pecs are pretty wide and relatively short. I yield to Bruce however, he's the pro.

I think it's a mutt.

Mutt.

I see some Green Sunfish as well.

I agree, 10, 11 and 12 are females and 14 is a male pure northern BG.

13 is definitely a hybrid, what percentage and parentage, I am not sure anyone could say for sure without a doubt. My gut says GSF and BG, with it being a female BG x male GSF cross and the fish itself being female.

I'm color blind (seriously) I can't see any color on the tab it would of swayed My guess but the coloring around the mouth And and Below The Eye Is WHAT Threw Me FOR A loop..

Sometimes I think that is a fish farm's way of saying, we suck at keeping different species separated, so who the heck knows for sure exactly what your getting when you order BG from us. I honestly don't see any traits in the hybrid sunfish's pig that indicates RES genetics. I am not seeing the fish doesn't have RES, in it, I just don't think it does. I do see plenty of definite GSF traits though.

I caught one other fish that was similar to 013, in that it also had a very faint orange border on the tab. Kind of a translucent orange. Does not show up well in the picture.

I stocked 125 additional RES in this pond last fall but they were only 3" so there is no way it is one of them. It has to be from the initial stocking fish.

Well it is good to know that at least I'm getting both male and female fish caught to stock daughters pond.

None of us are what you would call serious anglers but she does enjoy fishing sometimes. She would have not known the difference if I stocked GSF out of the creek, because that is what most farm ponds and pits have in them around here unless they have specifically been stocked with bought fish. She will be happy with whatever I put in there (except catfish, she does not like them, so no CC for her).

Very possible if not probable. This stock was from a smaller fish farm.

I have seen more than one fish farm advertise "BG with 10-15% RES mixed in" and my thought was you get whatever the spawn produces. Might get a lot of RES, might get a little.

I hope your planning a well balanced stocking plan not just throwing in a bunch of BG or she will be in a mess in no time..

All she has ever known is a mess in the pond she had, so she will be in hog heaven if I get anything close to a fishery. I doubt if she has ever fished in anything most of the posters here on PBF would consider a "good" pond.

Her and her husband (he unfortunately passed away from cancer in January. Last time I saw him alive I was cleaning out their pond) fished quite a bit in the local public strip pits which are stocked by Ks F&G but I know they are loaded with GSF. What you guys catch as daily fare would be trophy to them.

She will like what I come up with.

The plan is to stock 30 or so 5-6" BG this spring along with FHM, then next summer put in about ten 10-12" LMB caught from my pond. Should get two or three BG spawn this year and probably another next spring before introducing LMB big enough to spawn (and eat the new forage provided by the BG). Pond is probably about an acre and had some standing water left so likely will have some GSF, although the water was shallow and we had a long, hard winter as most did so I question if there were many fish left in 3' deep water. Mosquito fish were thick though a couple weeks ago.

Probably not a great stocking plan, but better than throwing in whatever is caught out of the creek as they are caught, which is the way about 4 out of 5 farm ponds get stocked around here. Whatever lives and reproduces is what you get.

We are in the backwoods of fisheries around here, although some pretty nice LMB come out of SE Kansas I am told. Be gentile with me. I came from a disadvantaged fish background. I'm no professional. I've grown crops for 40+ years. Not fish.

Also I would welcome any advice on this stocking process. I know a lot of the things I am doing is "not expert approved". Like not nuking the old pond. Like not buying fingerlings and going the traditional stocking route.

But my daughter is going to spend exactly zero dollars on this pond because that is what she can afford. There are plenty of other places for money to go besides on fish. So I have to work with what I have, or shell the money out on my own for a pond that is not mine.

I hesitate asking for advice, since I already know mostly what I am doing is wrong and will be readily pointed out. But I live in an imperfect world and this is NOT going to be the perfect pond. I, as well as she, will be happy with "good enough". So if there is something that anyone can add that can help me work with what I have (my pond full of fish that I can catch, trap and transfer to her pond as needed) and make it better, I would greatly appreciate it. If someone wants to point out the ills of my ways, that's ok too as I have big shoulders and can take it. But it probably will not help or change things.

I have learned sooooo much here on PBF. But anything less than perfection tends to get shot down. I'm just saying up front, this is not going to be a perfect pond. It is only going to be as good as I can make it with what I have to work with.

snrub:

Try and stock close to 50 BG (25 pairs). Also when catching them, look at the mouth size. Larger mouths mean that there probably is some GSF mixed in. RES do have slightly larger mouths than BG, but nowhere near as large as GSF or GSF hybrids.

Ear tab size, black scale tipping on the shoulders for a male BG and no blueish/greenish streaks on the cheeks mean BG. BG's don't have orange on the ear tab.

With the possibility of GSF left in the pond, it is what it is. That's what you have to work with, so that's what we will do!

What you want to do is try and make sure that their offspring (GSF) aren't the majority of panfish in the pond. Overwhelm and dilute their gene pool if possible. Stock FHM if you can.

In late July/August, toss in a minnow trap or two and show us the fingerlings. We can let you know if the BG spawned or if any GFS showed up. Next year, don't stock large LMB, just stock smaller ones. If you wait until August, you should be able to catch some 3"-5" LMB in your pond to stock in hers. Since the BG population will likely be low, don't go crazy stocking them next year (the LMB). 50 will do.

The problem with stocking light fish numbers is that if there is an undesirable fish species in the pond that will spawn sooner than the desirable ones, mother nature will try and fill up the pond with the fish you don't want.

Snrub - gonna make it to the PB get-together Saturday?
Hope so we can visit…

Don’t be intimidated by “anything less than perfection” on PBF tends to get shot down”. You have to learn “when to hold ‘em - when to fold ‘em, and when to walk away“.

I love to go against conventional wisdom when it makes sense to me - make mistakes in the process but most times things work.

Look forward to visiting with you Saturday!
George

I wouldn't sweat that fish snrub. I agree with adding BG, I'll bet the GSF traits disappear over time, especially with adequate predation in place.

Yes, I will be there. Looking forward to meeting you and a bunch of the other PBF members.

I may have made that post sound more negative than I meant for it to be. PBF is a wonderful resource and it is proper to promote best management practices. And I know a lot of guys (and gals) on here take their pond management very seriously and no doubt take a lot of pride in what they have accomplished. The only point meant was that not everyone has the time or resources to devote to the management of their ponds and sometimes compromises have to be made and best choices made within a range of available resources. Some management is still a whole lot better than no management at all. I believe I can provide at least a decent fishery for them, or at least a whole lot better ponds than what they had.

I would venture to say that mistakes have provided mankind as much information that led to progress as any planning we have done. It is just not my preferred method of learning, though I'm no stranger to it.

It sounds like for you the learning process is part of the joy of managing the ponds, and that sure is the case for me. As far as being an angler I'm on about the ten year old kid level, so a trophy producing pond has not been my priority. Have been enjoying catching the BG for stocking the kids ponds though, so you never know, I may catch the big fish bug in time.

What is going to be difficult for me in stocking both my daughter's pond as well as my son's is doing it with lower numbers of adult fish instead of large numbers of fingerlings is determining how well the forage production is going with the spawns and when and how many adult LMB for predators to put in. Getting that done correctly without either having a stunted BG pond or a LMB heavy/forage weak pond will be the trick. I hope I can pull it off, and if not can correct as time goes by.

Thanks for the encouragement.

Ok, thanks Esshup. That is great encouragement and sounds like a plan to follow. We have put about 40 BG in sons pond and probably up to about 25 in daughters, so still a ways to go. Both got FHM's a month or so ago. Son's pond started out "clean". Then I talk to him yesterday and found out they caught some "BG" out of the creek and I would bet a dollar to a doughnut that they were GSF. Ugh. They "looked" the same according to him and they could have been BG but I seriously doubt it. I explained how to tell the difference and and they agreed they should not do it abain. I reiterated that I have plenty of fish to share with them and they did not need to resort to creek stocking. It IS their pond though, and I have to remember that. At least with the 5-6" BG we put in they should put out a good spawn (I'm hoping). Son does have three small kids so some GSF mixed in would not be a terrible thing as long as they do not overtake the pond.

So I guess with the "help" stocking sons pond, now we can assume both ponds have some GSF in them.

The original water from daughters pond to date is still seperated from the new portion of the pond. When we get enough runoff the two waters will run together. I have been putting BG in both portions of the pond, hoping the BG would get off a spawn in the new part before any GSF that might be in the old portion have a chance at the fry.

Will do the monitoring with the minnow trap as you suggest and see what we come up with.

It is definitely a learning process. With the fish as well as the people.

Oh and esshup, good luck to me on the "pairs" of BG cause that is exactly what it will be if I get half and half male and female. I'm still not comfortable handling fish and am afraid I'm going to damage them. So I hardly take time to take a picture or look at them before getting them into the bucket with water.

So the stocking so far has been "pond run" and I know that is not good. I might have 90% males or 90% females.

Sexing fish is just one (among many) area that I'm severely lacking yet in pond management.

Try this :


From - http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.ph...true#Post157117

Lets start with BG. Here is the preeminent thread to see about Bill , Bruce and Cecil's PB mag article.

http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=103883&fpart=1

snrub, ewest posted a good guide (Thanks eric). BG are pretty hardy if they are in water 60 deg and up. They can take handling etc. I think it's worse to let them flop around on the ground and get covered with grass, dirt, etc.

You can invest in a smallish landing net, one with 1/2" holes and a "rubber" net vs. knotted nylon. A bit easier on the fish, easier to hold the fish in the net for pictures, etc.

Especially RBT. Those things flop around so much that netting them to remove the hook is 50x easier than trying to grab the slippery, floppy things in the pond.

Ok, thanks ewest and esshup. Good information. That should help me. Was confused about the bright yellow gular area and thought that was male characteristic, but by the chart the males are more reddish orange and darker. That is what threw me a curve to begin with and made me think I was getting lots of males. So far, best I can tell, been catching females about 2 to 1 to males.

The only time I let them touch the ground is when they get away from me. Probably trying to handle them more gently than need be and they escape my grip. They were laying still on the ground so I snapped the picture. I try to remember to wet my hands before handling them and I like using one rubber mesh yellow glove on the hand I hold them with but sometimes it is hard to get it on while handling the rod and the fish. Getting better at it. The glove seems to allow me to have a better grip without squeezing the fish as hard. Especially if the hook is tough to get out.

Been mashing the barb down on the hook and that sure makes it easier to get the hook out of their mouth. I loose a fish off the hook once in a while because of it but I like the ease of hook removal so I don't have to pry around on the fishes mouth as much. Probably leave the barb on when I start catching them to eat.

Thanks again both of you for your help.