I've been lurking for a while, learning lots of valuable information. I've recently starting working on an older pond we purchased and it's full of these sunfish. Most are about the size of these two. We can catch 100 of them in no time with any kind of little shiny hook, Power bait, worms, or grasshoppers.

The problem is I can't seem to identify what they are. My first assumption is some kind of Hybrid Bluegill, but I can't decide what is causing the coloration (orange) on the fins. Some are very orange.

Thank you,
Clayton

[img:center]http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/DLBn97-SG8eWmVDunCdlzW6sBXptVk3NOrHu4Th9Z1M?feat=directlink[/img]

[img:center]http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/M-jcYpA9E7w5v7XSeX5AmW6sBXptVk3NOrHu4Th9Z1M?feat=directlink[/img]

[img:center]http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/poH2-y1TlhEY1iaspYLspW6sBXptVk3NOrHu4Th9Z1M?feat=directlink[/img]

All three are nice sized green sunfish.

I feel so silly, having looked at many a GSF on here. My pond is absolutely overrun with stunted ones, no insult to GSF fans.

Hi Clayton, welcome to the forum.

Tell us about your pond - we love all the details, and photos! What are your goals for your pond? How close are you to getting there? We're eager to learn about the current condition of your pond, and want to help you achieve your management goals.

Don't worry about offending anyone in the GSA. They are a nocturnal group anyway, so they should never, ever, feel offended!

Some adult LMB will do wonders on the GSF population. So will a seine or traps.

Now that it's confirmed they are GSF, and I do want them out of there... Since I have other plans (longer message to follow)

Right now my GSF plan is this:
1. Immediately get the wife/kids out fishing every day. In just 45 minutes today we caught a large amount of 2-4" GSF that we could have culled. I realize this won't make a huge dent, but it will get some of the bigger ones out of there. Plus, it keeps everyone happy because they are catching fish.

2. Use a net to catch as many as possible from the shoreline. I'm seeing lots of them and I don't think this will be difficult. Other than a good amount of Water Hyacinth (which I'm working to kill back), there is little vegitation.

3. My mother has a 1 acre pond full of stunted LMB, approx 10-12" I've transplanted 10 from her place in total, some of the 10" ones and a few 12-14" from another pond. I caught about a dozen LMB there this Sunday, so I can easily repeat and transport to my pond.

Overrun with stunted ones, who would have thunk? More LMB in, selective harvest as many 3" and below out. Repeat for eternity.

I don't know Pond Frog, the GSF in his photos don't look very stunted to me... Actually pretty nice sized with healthy RW. Remember, GSF are a smaller species than BG to begin with.

All I know is the guy said his pond was completely overrun with stunts. Why would you take a photo of 2-3" GSF. I actually planted a couple of dozen today. And will probably put in a couple dozen more. Just need something to knockdown out of control bg. Put in 100 RES, 200 hybrid carp, 2 dozen crawdads and 1,500 bullfrog polliwogs. There is a place for GSF in many of my ponds. They fit my bg/sf triple header. This customer actually asked for them. I did not say oh God no!!!

Where can you get GSF in Oklahoma?

It has been hard to find them lately?

You can probably catch them in some back alley house of ill repute, along with other invasive species!

Not sure why people do not like these fish, but they make great bait fish, since they are so hardy.

I like Green Sunfish. They don't have a rolling spawn like Bg so, in my area, don't really overpopulate when bass are present.

I think of them as mini bass, because their food requirements are about the same as LMB their size. They need to be accounted for when figuring your pond's LMB carrying capacity.

There are many healthy ones, but it seems like the shallow waters by the shore are swarming with the small ones... I can cast a net out and fill a bucket with < 3" GSF. I really don't mind keeping the big ones in there, but that will mean I probably need a regular campaign of culling out the little guys somehow, right?

To top things off, the BG I put in this spring are no where to be found. I suspect they are being starved by the GSF consuming everything in sight.

Are these all GSF? Any Hybrids ? I bought what were supposed to be true BG a couple years ago and this is all I catch. Keeps the boy happy but I wanted some big BG.

Bottom photo is tough, but those top three all look like hybrids with a touch of GSF. Some of them almost look like three species in one. None are purebreads, I doubt even the 4th photo is.

I don't see a lot of naturally occuring hybrids in the ponds I manage, and I usually plant or have 2-3 species, never start with hybrids, pumpkinseeds or cnb.

Current pond overrun with bg I planted 280 RES, 160 gsf. There was one oddball in the gsf, I had to seperate and then individually inspect every fish. Could have been a mutant more chance than a hybrid. The fish source was a pond gone to polliwogs, so I got everything. Now I take 100 3" and below bg out every chance I get, and they are up in the shallows spawning, so I need to get started ASAP. Next Spring, maybe even this Fall I start planting 10" and over FLA LMB. Need to backfill for 2 year ago die off. Going to attempt to establish balanced fishery, self sustaining for a few years. Going to keep culling bg, until I make a dent.

So why do you not use hybrids, pumpkinseeds, or Coppernose?

4th pic was more of a "why I have my pond" kinda picture. My son loves catching grasshoppers and fishing in the pond. Sometimes we even catch them with no bait on the hooks. Even thought about putting a hook directly on the bobber because they kill it too.

Hybrid sunfish from the hatchery are usually male BG x female GSF. Its been my experience they look very different from the reciprocal cross of male GSF x female BG. I seem to see far more wild born BGxGSF hybrids be the latter of the two crosses for whatever reason. Hybrid sunfish sure are aggressive buggers!

I've only been raising HBG for a little over a year now, so I'm certainly no expert, but I'll weigh in on mike's photos.
Numbers 1 and 4 appear to me to be HBG, no question. Number 2 looks like a mature, male BG. It has the vertical bars, the black tipped 'shoulder scales", a pronounced opercular flap, and a distinct black spot near the end of it's dorsal fin. The only concern I have with it's identification is that it seems to have a rather large mouth. Hmmm... Number 3 seems to give me the most trouble..., the markings say HBG, but it seems to be more "slender", like a GSF. Nah, I'm gonna go with HBG on this one too.....

See this thread for lots on HBG and sunfish id.

http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=14459&page=1

I caught a GSF today in a friend's pond that I fish about once per month. It's near a major river and connected to some other ponds through the drains and overflows and such.

It was the first one I'd ever seen live and in person. It was a pretty good sized example - about 7-8" and we had no idea what it was until I got home and looked it up. The size of the mouth was my first clue - the the coloration on the head.

The owner of this pond doesn't even fish so, there has been no stocking. We usually fish there for big BG and runt LMB. My buddy caught a LMB that went about 2 1/2 pounds and we think that's the biggest one we can remember ever catching there.

Oh, and this is the pond that I caught my personal best black crappie from - 15 7/8"

Anyway, is this a bad omen?

I agree with you, sprkplug, about #2. The larger mouth is odd, but the looks of the fish say bluegill to me.

Would you be willing to post some pictures of your fish you have been raising?

Do any of your hybrids look different?

I ask this do to the fact that my HBG I stocked do not look like what I was expecting or what the picture of what they were selling.

Just wondering if you could help.

thanks

Good to know that maybe I do have BG in my pond and not all HBG. I was also worried that I had a bunch of GSF in my pond as I have heard they can take over a pond. I think my bass are getting big enough to hopefully keep that in check. I have only stocked the BG and LMB. The rest came from a pipe that connects a neighbors pond to my pond. Their pond was overflowing and the overflow pipe comes into mine. The fish were shooting out of it. Thinking about plugging that pipe so nothing else comes into my pond.

Yup, no purebread bg has that large of mouth. And #3 is a hybrid for sure, not even close to slender enough. Most look like they have some RES in them also. But when you do hybrid you get genetic variations. I'd have to say you were sold hybrid bg.

I don't use hybrid bg because they are notorious for ending with thier generation. Offspring are iffy, usually duds. Then all the good fish are caught up or die and you are stuck with duds. Most of my customers want a self sustaining population. My guy is grumbling now he never thought he would have to plant again, and that was over ten years ago. But he has to badly and knows it. A pond full of stunted bg is not much fun after some time. I would use both pumpkinseed and especially cnb, but they are unavailable in my area for a decent price and customers just don't want to pay double or triple for them over RES.

When it comes to HBG, there a few things to keep in mind. First, they're not all "cookie cutter" replicas of each other. Just like people, there are genetic diversities that create different "looks". Doesn't mean they aren't hybrid Bluegills, just means there's a little variety in the cross. Second, the link that ewest was kind enough to post is THE place to start your HBG education. That's where I got started, be prepared for a few headaches trying to sort all the variations out. Third, and this is very important, be aware that discussing HBG in general, and GG in particular, is akin to watching someone stir the campfire with a stick of dynamite. your first instinct says to stay the heck away, but you're gripped with a perverse desire to watch what happens. That's the thing with these fish, you either love em' or you don't. Part of that is due to the way they have been misrepresented to the general public. They are not the "miracle", saviour sunfish. as Pond frog pointed out, they are not, and should not be encouraged to be, self-sustaining. I would go as far to say that if your goal is a balanced fishery, don't stock HBG. On the other hand, if you want some truly huge BG, and you don't mind restocking as you remove fish, the potential is there for outstanding growth. Will they outgrow native BG? I honestly doubt it, if all things are equal. (water quality, feeding program, adequate predation) What appeals to me is the same thing that turns off Pond Frog. Low reproductive viability. Keep a large population of starving 8-12" LMB in a small pond with these babies, feed Aquamax everyday, aerate appropriately, and stand back.