New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo.

Posted by: Bobbss

New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 10/30/16 11:05 PM

Hi all,I'm hoping to get started on a new pond very soon,in High Ridge Mo.I'm working on trying to get a price now.Does anyone in my area know of a good pond builder,or bad ones I should stay away from?The pond will be at least a 1/2 acre,but hope it will be closer to 3/4 acre,and if I can I will try to push it to closer to a full 1 acre.150' long dam,20' high,with the water being about 15' deep,will give me an easy 1/2 acre.I know lots of things can determine the price,but does anyone have a guess at what a dam that size should cost to build?
Thanks!Bob
Posted by: Dave Davidson1

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 10/31/16 07:28 AM

The NRCS usually (or it does in Texas) keeps a list of dozer drivers who want to dig ponds. Of course, there is no qualifiers to be on the list so check a lot of references and go look at their work.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 11/01/16 04:02 PM

I have talk with the MDC,and have read their pond hand book a lot over the last several months.They say you need to clear all stumps,rocks and such from the dam site,but you don't have to from the rest of the pond area,and that it may be best not to.I've also had an excavator tell me the same thing.What do yous think?
Posted by: Rainman

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 11/01/16 06:50 PM

Bobbs, you want a clean, quality clay core on the dam...some rock can also be good as a binding substrate, but anything organic, like roots and stumps or vines, will rot, and leave holes for water to run through.

The clay core, and possibly all of the pond basin will need to be highly compacted, so FYI, tracks do NOT compact very well...you need wheeled earth movers or a sheepsfoot roller to do a good job. It will cost FAR less doing things right the first time than it will cost to correct cut corners later.

I personally am not a fan of the MDC...all state biologists I've met have only their personal ideals, or the state's interests in mind, and often could not care less about what the private land owner wants. NRCS agents are usually much better than the state. Be aware also, that some state services can cause your pond to become "waters of the state" and you can lose some control over your water.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 11/01/16 11:15 PM

Thanks,I've only talked to MCD on the phone,and they emailed me some info.Most of the info I learned from them was from their pond handbook on their website.I don't plan to involve them with it,but did learn a fair amont from the handbook.Thats where I learned about the Bottom Withdrawal Spillway that I hope to go with.I've had four excavators out to look at thing.The last one was about 2 weeks ago,he is the only one that walked around and looked at what I want done,but he still hasn't given me any type of pricing.The other three only wanted to stand at their truck and talk about it.One of them never gave me a price,the other two just told me what they want per day,but didn't seem to have much idea on what it might cost.One did say he didn't like the dirt in my area,because of being rocky,which doesn't make me feel good.I know the dirt is rocky and packs really hard,you have to use a pick to dig a hole.lol!
Posted by: esshup

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 11/02/16 05:04 PM

If I was building a pond, I would make durn sure I could run a sheepsfoot roller over the bottom, compacting it, adding 6"-8" of clay, re-compacting it with the sheepsfoot roller and doing it again 2-3 more times for a total of 4 layers compacted and knitted together.

That means cleaning out the pond bottom first.....

Take a look at a bathtub. It holds water Very, Very well, providing that the plug is in the drain. You don't want to build the pond, stock fish, etc., and realize that you didn't put the plug in the drain.........
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 11/03/16 11:06 PM

Thank for all of the in put.A little more about my site,I want to dam up the lower end of a 800' wooded ravine.It's about 50' deep,about 75' wide and flat at the bottom,and then starts sloping up.The sides are alitte steep in the pond area,but not real bad.The sides are even steeper farther up the ravine.There is about 7 acres of watershed.From what I can see there is very little top soil in the area.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 11/05/16 10:52 PM

I'm not saying I'll have a choice,but if I do have a choice,would you guys choose for a wider or longer pond?I'm thinking longer would make it look bigger?
Posted by: esshup

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 11/06/16 08:26 PM

Originally Posted By: Bobbss
I'm not saying I'll have a choice,but if I do have a choice,would you guys choose for a wider or longer pond?I'm thinking longer would make it look bigger?


It's a trade off. More shoreline = more habitat for YOY fish. But if the pond is too narrow you won't be able to get the depth you need.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 11/06/16 10:56 PM

Originally Posted By: esshup
Originally Posted By: Bobbss
I'm not saying I'll have a choice,but if I do have a choice,would you guys choose for a wider or longer pond?I'm thinking longer would make it look bigger?


It's a trade off. More shoreline = more habitat for YOY fish. But if the pond is too narrow you won't be able to get the depth you need.

Thanks,I'm not sure where they will want to get the dirt from,but was thinking if they took more dirt from the far end instead of the sides,it would make it alittle longer and look bigger.I think it would stay well over a 100' wide until the very end.
Posted by: TGW1

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 11/08/16 07:21 AM

Wider or Longer ?? if you have that option, why not do both? It's only money smile I would do what my budget would afford me to do.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 11/08/16 11:20 AM

Originally Posted By: TGW1
Wider or Longer ?? if you have that option, why not do both? It's only money smile I would do what my budget would afford me to do.

I agree with you,it's only money,but my wife doesn't.lol!She don't care much about my pond.lol!We need a few more acres cleared,and some roads put in to build a house and pole barn,which will cost a lot of money,so she is only going to let me spend so much on a pond.
How big of pond do you guys think my 7 acres of steep watershed can keep full?
Posted by: Jimmi

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 11/08/16 03:57 PM

You might check with Jefferson County Soil and Water Conservation District for their 'Resource List of Conservation Contractors'.

Statement from their site:
'The JCSWCD does not endorse or recommend any Vendors/Contractors advertised in this Newsletter. All interested Vendors/Contractors are eligible to place an Ad in our Newsletter and/or have their names added to our Resource List of Conservation Contractors. This list is available to all landowners and anyone who requests it.'
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/09/17 02:20 PM

I finally have something to update on this.We finally have someone working on clearing some of are land,including the area for my pond.He is going to dig some holes when he gets down in the pond site to look for clay,and clean things up enough so they can come up with a cost.He said he did find some clay while pushing trees down on top of the ridge and that we have enough land that we should be able to find enough clay.I won't hold my breath,but he did give me some hope.He needs to find good clay and give me a price that the wife won't get scared off and I'm good to go.lol!
Posted by: snrub

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/09/17 05:49 PM

Good luck in your search for clay. Be sure to take pictures of the process.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/09/17 10:48 PM

Thanks Snrub!I went by my property after work and he had started clearing on the pond site.He was already gone for the day but I looked around and found some dirt that looked like it had clay in it.I could ball it up and throw it down hard on the ground and it would hold together.I hope that's a good sign.
I was hoping for 15' deep,but what do you think I could get away with here in mid Missouri?The reason I ask is there is a few really large trees that I want to keep.I always thought they was well above where my shore line would be but now that he cleared things up some I'm not to sure,it looks pretty close.
Every one I talked to about building the pond seemed to think they would rather not dig anymore than they had to under the water line.Do you think I could dig down a few extra feet to get my depth or do you think that might cause problems?I will ask my guy these questions,but I wanted to see what everyone else thought.
Posted by: John Fitzgerald

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/09/17 11:15 PM

As long as you are digging in clay, you should be alright. On my latest pond, we quit digging when the clay started getting a little gravel in it...that was about six feet below ground level. We stopped there and compacted the bottom well. With the dam and excavation together, managed to get about 8 ft 5 inches of depth.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/10/17 12:25 PM

Thanks John!I did get to talk with my guy this morning and he talked like it wouldn't be to big of a deal to dig down a good ways.He said the top soil is really deep,so it sounds to me like he would have to dig down pretty deep anyway.He came out this morning but it had rained to much last night so he couldn't work.There was a few big puddles of water which I thought was a good sign,but he said he didn't really find any clay yet,but he said he really hadn't digged just to look for clay yet.I'm not sure what I was balling up yesterday,it looked like a dark gray colored clay to me.The weather forecast doesn't look good so it may be a while before I learn more,and I really want to learn more NOW!!!!lol!
Posted by: snrub

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/10/17 01:18 PM

It is my understanding that a mixture of clay and topsoil is the best. Clay has a high shrink to swell ratio. This gives it the property needed to swell up and seal, but can also crack when dried out because of the shrinkage.

So you do not have to have pure clay, just soil with a hih enough clay content to seal well.

If you have an old 5 gallon bucket, drill some holes in the bottom. Wet some of your suspect soil to where it will compact good. Compact with your fist or ax handle about 6" final depth in the bottom, running the clay up the sides just a little so a bowl forms in the bottom. Slowly fill the bowl portion with water and seen how well it holds. If you have water running out the bottom equals bad. Dry or just damp on the bottom means the compacted soil will hold water.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/10/17 01:46 PM

Thanks Snrub!I think I will try that.He showed me the red clay he found on top of the ridge when pushing trees,and he may just be looking for more of that.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/10/17 11:13 PM

I drilled about 30 1/4" holes in a bucket and got some dirt or should I say mud.lol!I tried packing it but
I think it is to wet.I will let it set for a while and see if any of the moisture that was in it drains off and see if I can pack it more before I add water.Does it sound like I'm doing the test right.I was surprised to se there was still water standing in the holes when I went by tonight.
Posted by: Rainman

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/11/17 01:25 PM

Bobbss, unless aerating the pond, water 6 feet deep or more will be toxic in the summers here, but you want at least 30% of the pond at an 8 foot depth for our typical winters for fish to survive well in. With a 7 acre "steep" watershed, you might sustain one acre, but 3/4 acre is more likely.

BTW, it's nice to have another new Missourian amongst us!
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/11/17 02:49 PM

Thanks Rainman!I'm pretty sure it would be over 12' deep and still save my trees and that would probably keep the pond under 3/4 acre.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/11/17 06:58 PM

I've been playing with my bucket of mud and have been able to squish a little water out of it but not much.If I just let it set nothing really comes out.Am I right thinking that with it already being extra wet,that if it will hold water on top,that would be a better sign?
Posted by: Rainman

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/11/17 07:34 PM

Clay cant be too wet or too dry in order to compact. If too wet, the clay gets like a waterbed, push down in one area, and it lifts in another. Too dry, and it just crumbles.

When you get your clay dried enough, it should be moldable, but not with a lot of ease. Put it in the bucket, compact well to about 2" thick and fill with water. Mark your water level and cover with a lid. Keep the bottom of the bucket a little off the floor so if it leaks, water can drain. Let it sit for a few days and see if the water level dropped much.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/12/17 11:20 AM

Thanks Rainman,I'll have to let it dry a lot then.Did I drill to many holes?Is there any other test I can do?
Posted by: snrub

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/12/17 03:31 PM

It will dry quicker if you will dump it out of the bucket, spread it out a little, then wait till the top of it whites off indicating drying. You want it moist enough you can make a ball but not so wet it works like play dough. When it is field dry about right, pack it into the bucket.

If it has too much organic matter and not enough clay it will loosen somewhat when you carefully place water in the bucket and leak. If it is going to make good pond liner material the bowl in the bucket will hold water quite a while. If you fill the bucket completely full, water may follow the plastic sides down. So just make a mini pond in the bucket (bowl shape) and fill to full pool of the mini pond bowl.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/12/17 07:57 PM

Thanks Snurb!I think I'll go a head and get another bucket and try your way and Rainman's way.What can it hurt.
Posted by: snrub

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/12/17 10:38 PM

I had not noticed Rex (Rainman) had already replied. He has done this a lot more than me, so his method should be fine.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/16/17 01:02 PM

I was able to start my bucket test yesterday.I packed about 2" of dirt give or take a little in the bucket and added water.After about 15 hours later,this morning when I went to work it was dry under the bucket,and I didn't notice any water level drop.So it looks like I'm off to a good start.I also read about the truck door test on here and tried that and it passed,but I didn't use my truck.lol!I used a tank and a cabinet.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/17/17 11:51 PM

After 48 hours it's still holding pretty good with just a few drops of water under the bucket.I found and old email that the MCD sent me back when we first started looking at the land.It had a link to a soil map of our property.I didn't think it was of much help before,but when I looked at things this time I found more links giving a break down on the soil.I have 2 types of soil in my pond area,both are in Hydrologic Group D,which I think is good.Soil #1 the biggest area has soil that is at 0"-3" 13% clay,79% silt,8% sand.At 3"-11" 16% clay,80% silt,4% sand.11"-32" 33% clay,64% silt,3% sand.32"-68" 25% clay,67% silt,8% sand.68"-80" 24% clay,60% silt,16% sand.Soil #2 the smallest area is 0"-3" 14% clay,71% silt,15% sand.3"-9" 12% clay,72% silt,16% sand.9"-79" 68% clay,17% silt,15% sand.Soil #2 has a lot more clay but has way way way more rock and much larger ones.Am I right thinking that Soil #1 would be better than Soil #2?By the way my bucket test is with Soil #1 and would from the top 11".
Posted by: Rainman

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/18/17 04:22 AM

The most "Good" clay in the Ozarks is often found on the eastern side of hills running north and south. For the best possible compaction, get a vibratory sheepsfoot or roller sheepsfoot and lay a 2' thick clay blanket in 6" lifts in the entire pool area, and a foot or two above the "full pool" mark. Be sure to have your pond builder save the top soils to lay back down over the disturbed areas just below, and all around the full pool area and seed as soon as possible....on the movers last pass, if possible. Seeding the entire pool area with annual rye, wheat and buck oats will really help reduce erosion and jump start the base of your food chain also.

Consider 2 books available on the site's main page...Bob Lusk's "Perfect Pond...Want One?" and Mike Otto's, "Just Add Water" Dig and build things right the first time may cost 10-20% more sometimes, but I can guarantee trying to fix a leak after water has entered, will cost triple or more the original costs.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/18/17 08:22 PM

Thanks Rainman,I've been considering getting one of those books and probably will.The hill side with the cleaner clay (less rocks) is a east side,maybe a little bit north east.I'm hoping the rain holds off so he can get back out and finish clearing.The pond area is about 75% cleared but I'm sure it will be awhile before the pond will get started.After he gets it cleared so he can see what it will take to build the pond,they have to work on a plan and price.He also has a big job he has to start after he gets our clearing done.That will give me a chance to get some of the trees cut up and the brush piles burned so he has more room to work.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/22/17 09:43 PM

Well it's been a week since I started my bucket test and I don't think it's even dropped a 1/2".He has 2 or 3 more hours of clearing on the pond area and he will be done at least for now.
Posted by: snrub

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/22/17 11:02 PM

Great news on the bucket test.

Exciting times. Enjoy the process. Congratulations on starting construction.

Take pictures and share them.
Posted by: SetterGuy

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/23/17 08:52 AM

Originally Posted By: snrub
Great news on the bucket test.

Exciting times. Enjoy the process. Congratulations on starting construction.

Take pictures and share them.


I agree! Let's see some pics!
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/23/17 10:47 PM

He got rained out today and is hoping it will dry out enough by tomorrow afternoon to finish clearing before more rain comes in.I've been taking pictures,I'll have to figure out how to post them.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/25/17 08:39 PM

We got lucky and he finished clearing yesterday.They plan to be out next Thursday to shoot the grade so they can plan and price.I now have lots of wood to cut and brush to burn.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 04/03/17 04:08 PM

Well we got rained out last week and not looking much better for this week for getting them out to shoot the grade.The company I'm using is a small family owned business with the husband running the construction side and the wife running the excavating side with a guy or two doing the excavating.When talking to her last week to confirm that we was rained out,I asked her if the soil map and soil info I sent to her helped any.She said no,she really didn't know what it all ment.She also said you never have enough good dirt on site and you always have to bring in some or all of the dirt.I told her from what I've been reading,you want at least 20% clay and don't want 100% clay and that 30% clay is what you want.I asked what percent of clay does she like to use and she told me they don't get that technical,they just look at it.Well all of this is not making me feel real good about how well they know what their doing.I think they know how to build a pond but I think if it don't look like almost pure clay they just have you buy some.I may have to keep an open mind about finding someone else to build my pond.I orderd the book Just Add Water last night.I figure I better learn all I can.lol!
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 04/24/17 01:41 PM

Well they still haven't been out to shoot the grade.They've been rained out and last week it was food poisoning.They said they would try for this week and I told them to call me when they knew.The next day I went down to my local NRCS office and got some info including a contractor list.I'm giving them to Wednesday and I will start calling others.The soil scientist was not in last week when I was there but I got to talk to him today on the phone.He said he knows my soil types well and that they should work good,even the rockier stuff that I was worried about.So that sounds great.But he also told me he would only build a pond in January-March so it fills up before the dirt can crack.I've had others tell me they like it to take longer to fill so you can get grass to grow first.Has anyone had trouble with building a pond because the didn't do it January-March?I really don't want to wait almost a year to build it!lol!
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 04/24/17 10:38 PM

Here is a few pics,I hope.lol!
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 04/24/17 10:56 PM

1 more.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 04/24/17 10:58 PM

1 more.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 04/24/17 11:06 PM

3 more.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 04/24/17 11:13 PM

4 more.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 04/24/17 11:22 PM

After going through my pictures to post here,I realized that I didn't take any pictures after his last day of clearing.I will take a few more and get them posted,now that I figured out how to do it.lol!
Posted by: John Fitzgerald

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 04/24/17 11:37 PM

Originally Posted By: Bobbss
<snip> But he also told me he would only build a pond in January-March so it fills up before the dirt can crack.I've had others tell me they like it to take longer to fill so you can get grass to grow first.Has anyone had trouble with building a pond because the didn't do it January-March?I really don't want to wait almost a year to build it!lol!


Most ponds around here are built in late summer or early fall, when the ground is driest. It's usually too muddy to work in January-March. We got our latest one done in mid December, during the bad drought we had. The renovation of our old pond was done in August 2015, during a dry spell. It started filling within a few days.

If you build in the warmer months you can get grass going faster and avoid erosion of the dam easier. With my December build, I had to use a lot of rocks and hay to block possible erosion channels, but still got a few mild ones.
Posted by: SetterGuy

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 04/25/17 06:40 AM

I finished mine in Sept, and caught great fall rains to get it 3/4 filled. Also gave me enough rain to get grass started everywhere. I was a bit on the lucky side though. Not sure we've had enough rain since then to get it half full.
On another note, I had a lot more rock in the soil/clay than it looks like you do. I've got a small leak, which bothers me, but not much. Hope you get your contractor situation resolved.
My builder wasn't a soils expert. He knew enough to know I had marginal soil with too much rock. When he found good stuff he did his best to get it in the righ places. I did make them use a sheeps foot roller. They didn't want to, and really had to fight it. Glad I did though, as I think my leak would probably be worse.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 04/25/17 11:51 AM

Thanks guys!Them and I both felt it would need to be during a dry time to get it in.It took them near 4 weeks just to get in 7 days of clearing,and only 2-3 days of it was in the pond area,the rest was on the hill top where it was drier.The soil guy at the NRCS told me that you can use dirt up to 50% rock,as long as the rocks aren't real big.I have 2 types of soil that meet in my pond site.The one you can see in the pictures has less rock but also has a lower percent of clay.The other has a lot more rock but lot more clay too.I will try to take some better pictures of my dirt.They did call me yesterday and plan to be out tomorrow,but they are calling for rain,so I won't count on them.
Posted by: SetterGuy

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 04/25/17 12:23 PM

Yep, forecast says 90-100% chance. Up to an inch. Starts in the morning. (St Louis area.) I'm thinking I'll get .1" up at our pond. Spread out over 12 hrs. At least you know you aren't in the driest county in the state. I've already got that locked in..

Not so much rock in the dam. Trying to attach image. (Won't accept a file over 2MB). Trying plan B.
[img][IMG]http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/...0cc40.jpg[/img][/img]

I don't know if this works any better, but I can't go through file manager without exceeding 2MB. I can't get the pics down to less than 2MB on Photobucket.



How do you do an attachment? I'd like to just link in an attachment instead of the pic. I know it slows down loading the page.
Posted by: canyoncreek

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 04/25/17 12:43 PM

Setterguy, I can't imagine even with a sheepsfoot roller that you can compact clay and expect any kind of seal with that many rocks. There are more rocks than clay per area. I can see why you have a slow leak and why the soilfloc really can't help you much there. Too many places where rocks can move slightly and disturb the compaction and allow places for water to find its way down through the compaction zone.

Bobbss, I would go overboard on compaction or see if there is anyway to use the stickiest clay you can find, without rocks, even if you have to have it trucked in. or, plan now for an alternate source of water (well and large pump?) to help fill your pond. Perhaps you get more rain and won't have to worry as much.

Not wanting to be a spoilsport but that soil/rock mix looks to be a challenge.
Posted by: SetterGuy

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 04/25/17 12:54 PM

That's by far, the worst area in the pond. It was supposed to be cut way down there, but they left it alone. It's also very close to the surface there. It was a scary layer, to say the least. They went over it with the sheeps foot, but as you say, I doubt it did much good.
Other areas had zero rock.
Also, I think soilfloc may have helped my leak, somewhat. I'm still losing about 1/4" a day. I think it was twice that before soilfloc, and I don't think I applied it thick enough.
Just an FYI..

"Not wanting to be a spoilsport but that soil/rock mix looks to be a challenge."
I see it a little differently..
More like this.. a one AC pond full of fish, that loses 1/4" a day, is a bit better than no pond at all...
Posted by: canyoncreek

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 04/25/17 01:04 PM

Setter you are very correct, any pond is better than no pond. I was just thinking about how so many people come here to vent frustration AFTER the pond is done, and the original poster has a chance to take your experience and go to his pond builder and say upfront that he doesn't demand a perfectly sealed 'bathtub' but that if extra precautions are taken now, there will be less hard feelings later.

he can also budget the extra work, also budget for a backup plan to pump water into the pond should it leak more than he finds acceptable.

There are advantages to leaky ponds, despite 2-3 applications of soilfloc, I'm glad it still goes down slightly due to presumably leak and evaporation. If it didn't, every time we get a heavy rain event I would have no place to go with the water.. The way it is now our rain events come right about the time I'm thinking, maybe I should fire up the well smile

Posted by: SetterGuy

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 04/25/17 01:08 PM



I can live with this. It's about as low as it's been. It may not be perfect, but I am glad I didn't give up when we found all the rock. I hope Bobbss doesn't give up with some negative vibes.. wink
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 04/25/17 01:44 PM

Originally Posted By: SetterGuy
Yep, forecast says 90-100% chance. Up to an inch. Starts in the morning. (St Louis area.) I'm thinking I'll get .1" up at our pond. Spread out over 12 hrs. At least you know you aren't in the driest county in the state. I've already got that locked in..
I had a lot of rock in my clay.

This pic is of some toads, but shows how much rock I've got.
[img:center][/img]

How do you do an attachment? I'd like to just link in an attachment instead of the pic. I know it slows down loading the page.
When you go to full reply screen,there is a link thing that says file manager,click on it and it will let you add a file.
Posted by: SetterGuy

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 04/25/17 01:50 PM

Originally Posted By: Bobbss
Originally Posted By: SetterGuy
Yep, forecast says 90-100% chance. Up to an inch. Starts in the morning. (St Louis area.) I'm thinking I'll get .1" up at our pond. Spread out over 12 hrs. At least you know you aren't in the driest county in the state. I've already got that locked in..
I had a lot of rock in my clay.


How do you do an attachment? I'd like to just link in an attachment instead of the pic. I know it slows down loading the page.
When you go to full reply screen,there is a link thing that says file manager,click on it and it will let you add a file.


Thanks, I'll give it a shot. Hope you don't find as much rock as was in my pic!
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 04/25/17 02:12 PM

Thanks guys!I will do what I can to have a pond that won't leak.The bad thing about the budget is with my wife it won't matter if it's built next month or 2 years from now,she is only going to want me to spend so much,and I don't even know how much that is yet.lol!Sometimes you have to let her gripe and get over the sticker shock before she says ok.lol!Perfect Pond,Want One?You Bet I do!But I'll settle for an ok one.If it stays full enough that my fish don't die,I can live with it.SetterGuy,I'm sure that area looks rockier now than it did,I'm sure the dirt that was there washed away and exposed the rocks more.And I would love to have a pond that looks as good as yours!I made it clear that when we bought the land,that I would have a pond there if I had to dig it with a shovel.lol!
Posted by: SetterGuy

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 04/25/17 02:20 PM

I was lucky during the budget. One of my wife's friends was putting in a very nice pool. I kept saying my pond is less than 1/6 the cost of the pool, and it's a lot bigger! With fish! Ha
Hope your construction goes well. Good luck.
(I tried file manager, no go, all my iPhone pics are over 2MB). So, I'll hold off on filling up other threads with big picture files. wink
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 04/25/17 02:36 PM

I do have an old pond on the other side of the ridge in the same type of soil.It's a little under a 1/4 acre when full.It's not where I want one at,it is right on my property line with a private road (not mine)along side of it.It's in bad shape,it holds water but not that great.I haven't seen it drop more than 2' but it may not be over 4' deep when full.It has filled in pretty bad.There are so many trees on the dam,some are near 16" at the ground and some are dead.I'm not sure how much it leaks and how much the trees just suck out of it.I put a few fathead minnows in it and plan to bucket stock a few fish in it just for something to do and see if I can learn anything.I may try to clean it out later,after I get the new one built.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 04/25/17 02:44 PM

Originally Posted By: SetterGuy
I was lucky during the budget. One of my wife's friends was putting in a very nice pool. I kept saying my pond is less than 1/6 the cost of the pool, and it's a lot bigger! With fish! Ha
Hope your construction goes well. Good luck.
(I tried file manager, no go, all my iPhone pics are over 2MB). So, I'll hold off on filling up other threads with big picture files. wink
What I did was emailed them from my phone to myself,then down loaded them on my computer at home,then I right clicked on them and went to edit and resized them so I could up load them.I'm not a tech guy so there is probably an easier way.lol!
Posted by: liquidsquid

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 04/26/17 03:57 PM

Funny you mention pool costs! That is how I slipped our pond through the budget committee.

We went and priced out a simple above-ground swimming pool, not even that big, that was of reasonable depth (I forget the actual size). By itself, it was affordable. Then I had to figure in leveling an area for it, adding sand, and adding the state requirement of a deck to support a locking gate or removable stairs, a motion alarm, etc. Also chemicals, electrical hookup, electricity costs... my nanny state of NY made a simple pool cost almost 3X of the base price! Grand total, $11K.

We first received a pond quote for 1 acre pond at $10K, so we knocked it down to a 1/2 acre at $6K (which wound up being ~$9K when complete). It was still less money than a pool so I got the go-ahead! The selling point is it is usable all year round, where a pool is only good for 3-4 months around here. Ice-skate, fishing, etc.

Now we may have to add the cost of aeration and associated electricity to keep the floating gunk at bay for swimming. We will see how this summer pans out.

Don't skimp on the build of the pond. You will pay the additional cost now, or more later.
Posted by: John Fitzgerald

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 04/26/17 04:30 PM

Originally Posted By: SetterGuy
I was lucky during the budget. One of my wife's friends was putting in a very nice pool. I kept saying my pond is less than 1/6 the cost of the pool, and it's a lot bigger! With fish! Ha
Hope your construction goes well. Good luck.
(I tried file manager, no go, all my iPhone pics are over 2MB). So, I'll hold off on filling up other threads with big picture files. wink


The question is whether your wife prefers to swim in the pond or her friend's pool? LOL
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 04/26/17 10:43 PM

I know my wife isn't going to swim in the pond,she hardly swims in the pool we have now because the water is to cold,and it's heated.lol!
Posted by: SetterGuy

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 04/27/17 05:20 AM

My wife loves to sit back in a floating lounge chair. She hardly gets wet. Now she's seen me jump out of the water when the HBG bite me, and will probably never get out of the chair.
FYI, her buddy spent almost as much on their big in ground pool and landscaping project, as we did on the farm! I couldn't help but look good.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 04/27/17 10:25 PM

We did get rained out again yesterday.They say they will try again next week.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 04/27/17 10:31 PM

Here is a few soil pics.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 04/27/17 10:47 PM

Here is a few more pics of the pond site.I still have lots of wood to cut and burn.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 05/09/17 11:20 PM

They FINALLY made it out today and shot the grade so they can work up a price.Now I will have to see how long it takes them to give me a price.lol!Along with a few things they've said about always having to bring in clay,they was taking so long that I started talking to someone else last week that I know has built way more ponds.He wants me to give him $400.00 to come out and dig some test holes and take a look at things so he can give a price.Which my wife don't like.She want to get the NRCS office to do it,which they already they can't do to their truck being wrecked and no plans to fix it.lol!I would feel better about it if he had came out first and looked at thing and said everything else looked good but needed to dig test holes.Since my current people made it out today,I will at least hear them out.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 05/30/17 11:31 PM

Well still no price from my current people and the last time I talked to them they said they want to bring in 100% of the dirt they need and that it would probably be over $25,000.00 for just a 1/2 acre pond (I'm hoping for bigger).My wife finally gave up on the Mo.Con. and the NRCS so I called the other guy and he is going to try to come out Thursday and dig test holes.I would of never thought it would be this hard to find someone to build me a pond,let alone just to get a price.lol!
I haven't seen any sign of the FHM I put in the old pond so I picked up another 5 dozen today to put in.While I was floating them I was looking around and saw some 1/2"-3/4" fry swimming around.I thought it was pretty cool to have something spawn even if it is just FHM.I can't wait to get a real pond built.lol!
Posted by: SetterGuy

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 05/31/17 07:56 AM

Bob, that's disappointing in the NRCS. My guy was very responsive has come out three times, at least. 25 is about what it cost me to get my pond built. I didn't get any dirt or clay hauled in though. (Maybe I should have.) I was 10k above budget anyway. Lots went wrong during the build, but some of that was due to my issues. I sure hope you find someone that's willing and able to get it done right for a fair price.
It's great to see stuff happening in a new pond. I took a million pictures of toad and frog eggs. Then asked and reasked here, what I was looking at.. Good luck, wish I knew a pond builder near you.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 05/31/17 10:42 AM

Thanks SetterGuy,the guy that I hope is going to make it out tomorrow is pretty good from what I hear.He built one for a member here on Pond Boss and 2 for a friend of mine's buddy.He claims that he has built 50 or more just in my county and works in others as well.He said their building a 35 acre lake in another county right now.I would like to think the person that hired them for that thought he knew what he is doing.lol!
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 06/02/17 11:30 PM

The new guy came out yesterday and dug test holes.I have plenty of good clay.There is about 2' of top soil on top of it so it will take a little work to get to it.Besides the price,the only thing he said that I wasn't wild about was he didn't want to use his sheeps foot.He said the pond was going to be to narrow and steep for the sheeps foot to work good,and that the soil was good enough and enough rock in it that he could just toe it in.He also said that the sheeps foot doesn't work well with the rock.He said he would use it the best he could if I wanted but it would cost more money and that he thought it would be a waste of money.What do you guys think?
Posted by: Dave Davidson1

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 06/03/17 04:56 AM

One concern about pure clay is that it tends to crack during periods of little or no rain. However, this guy surely knows more about dam building in your area that I do.
Posted by: SetterGuy

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 06/03/17 07:01 AM

I had them use the sheeps foot roller on my pond, and I had a lot of rock. My pond is pretty wide, it's almost square. The roller did have issues with the rock. Also, the guys that built my pond had built lots of them, and they all held water, and none used a roller. There's good clay around me, just not at my place.. Ha!
It does sound like he knows what he's doing. Glad you finally got someone out there that appears to know what he's doing.
Posted by: RAH

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 06/03/17 10:02 AM

Personally in my situation, I just use a sheepsfoot on the core of the dam. But we have great clay.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 06/03/17 10:38 AM

Thanks Guys!My soil doesn't look like pure clay to me.The soil maps for the area he plans to take it from says 68% clay.My pond will only be 150' wide at the most.Most of it will probably be 100' or less wide.It will probably be 250'-300' long.
It will be 12'+ deep and most of it will be at least 8' deep.My wife don't like the price.Surprise!lol!Some of that is I don't think he is the cheapest (he isn't as high as the people that didn't know what their doing) and some of it is ponds just aren't cheep!I will probably have to wait for the wife to get over the price for a while.lol!
Posted by: John Fitzgerald

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 06/03/17 11:34 AM

I had a new .28 acre pond 8.5 feet deep built last December for just over $2700.
Posted by: Redonthehead

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 06/03/17 12:15 PM

Originally Posted By: Bobbss
Thanks Guys!My soil doesn't look like pure clay to me.The soil maps for the area he plans to take it from says 68% clay.


By chance i have two NRCS soil scientists within 15 minutes of my proposed pond. They were happy to come out (perhaps bored) amd take a look at my soils. Point was they said the soils maps were pretty general and the soils in my pond area were nothing like what the soils map said it was as further up on the hill. The detail wasnt done to what some might interprete on the soil maps. Also likely the valley my pond is going to be was timbered back in the day and the old timers didnt bother going into the woods - at least in this narrow tract.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 06/03/17 01:21 PM

Does your guy want a job in the St. Louis area?lol!Mine is no where near that cheap.He said mine would be 1/2-3/4 acre and it's also in a deep wooded ravine with not much room to work in and still needs some clearing.He said he thinks he can do it for $15,000.00 but to plan on $20,000.00.
Originally Posted By: John F
I had a new .28 acre pond 8.5 feet deep built last December for just over $2700.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 06/03/17 01:32 PM

Mine couldn't come out because his truck has been down since the winter with no repair in sight.My soil seems to match pretty well with the soil map description,but I wouldn't bet on it.lol!
Originally Posted By: Redonthehead
Originally Posted By: Bobbss
Thanks Guys!My soil doesn't look like pure clay to me.The soil maps for the area he plans to take it from says 68% clay.


By chance i have two NRCS soil scientists within 15 minutes of my proposed pond. They were happy to come out (perhaps bored) amd take a look at my soils. Point was they said the soils maps were pretty general and the soils in my pond area were nothing like what the soils map said it was as further up on the hill. The detail wasnt done to what some might interprete on the soil maps. Also likely the valley my pond is going to be was timbered back in the day and the old timers didnt bother going into the woods - at least in this narrow tract.
Posted by: SetterGuy

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 06/03/17 03:08 PM

I had the test holes dug, then had the NRCS guy come out, and he brought his soils expert with him. He did ribbon tests etc.. and gave my 80-90% chance of success. He was hesitant about the drainage I had for the size of my pond. As it turned out, I have no trouble filling it, it's keeping it filled that's been the problem. Not necessarily a leak, although I have a small one, it's drought too. The more south you are in Missouri, the more expected rainfall you have.
My wife went along on cost because my other hobby is motorcycle riding.. She was 100% behind anything I did, that kept me off of a bike. (I did a 10,000 mile trip up to Prudhoe Bay AK, and back. After that I was ready to tackle the pond.) Maybe try the motorcycle strategy on your wife, she will pick the pond, if she's anything like my wife. wink
Posted by: snrub

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 06/03/17 10:33 PM

Wouldn't work here. She rides too. We only made it as far north as Coldfoot, Alaska though, hers a 650 Yamaha V Star then (now she rides a Can Am Spyder). Show your wife a Spyder. My wife loves it.

My wife was the one that wanted the pond bigger.

my main pond introduction
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 06/03/17 11:32 PM

Well none of that works with my wife.lol!She doesn't want me to have any hobbies that cost money.lol!She asked me tonight if I can find someone cheaper or build it my self.lol!My father in law that passed away a 1 1/2 years ago had a 555 down at the farm that is still there that I could probably bring up but I've only played with it for 10-15 minutes before.I've been using a skid steer and front loader at work for over 28 years but just to move bulk sawdust and sand,which would help me pick it up faster than most people but it's not like building a pond.Then theres the time thing that I have none of,only a few hours here and there.lol!My pond is going to be one that needs finish fast after it's started or it will fill with water.
Posted by: liquidsquid

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 06/04/17 07:35 AM

IMHO, were I to build another pond, I would not go with the cheapest quote, but one with the most pond building experience and track record of success.
I do have a nice pond, but the higher quote would have been almost 2x price, but almost 2x size also. My smaller, cheaper pond dam was poorly compacted. The higher priced guy wanted to compact the snot out of things with a loader. If I knew then what I know now...

Of course I didn't join this site until after the pond was built, or my decision would have been different.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 06/04/17 08:48 PM

Originally Posted By: liquidsquid
IMHO, were I to build another pond, I would not go with the cheapest quote, but one with the most pond building experience and track record of success.
I do have a nice pond, but the higher quote would have been almost 2x price, but almost 2x size also. My smaller, cheaper pond dam was poorly compacted. The higher priced guy wanted to compact the snot out of things with a loader. If I knew then what I know now...

Of course I didn't join this site until after the pond was built, or my decision would have been different.

At this time after talking to the new guy,I wouldn't go with a cheaper bid unless they sounded like they knew as much as he did and had the experience he does.It was pretty much night and day from the other people I was using.I think I'd rather make the pond smaller to save money if I have to,but I don't want to do that just yet.lol!
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 06/07/17 01:35 PM

The new guy I'm talking to said Oak Trees don't do well to near ponds.I have one that I wanted to keep that would hang over the pond but he said we would need to drop the water line down some or we may have to take the tree down,now or later after it dies and that it would be easier now before the pond is built.Does anyone have any Oak Trees very close to their pond that is doing good?
Posted by: Pat Williamson

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 06/07/17 05:41 PM

I did have...... they all died
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 06/07/17 10:41 PM

Thanks.How close was they and how long did it take for them to die?
Originally Posted By: Pat Williamson
I did have...... they all died
Posted by: Bill D.

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 06/07/17 10:44 PM

I have a few maybe 40 or 50 feet from the pond and they are doing ok. I planted them as "sticks" in 2012. They are around 12 feet tall now. Do a little research. Not all oaks are created equal.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 06/07/17 11:00 PM

Thanks.Mine was only going to be around 10 feet.I think he wants 20 feet or so.
Originally Posted By: Bill D.
I have a few maybe 40 or 50 feet from the pond and they are doing ok. I planted them as "sticks" in 2012. They are around 12 feet tall now. Do a little research. Not all oaks are created equal.
Posted by: anthropic

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 06/07/17 11:06 PM

Originally Posted By: Bobbss
The new guy I'm talking to said Oak Trees don't do well to near ponds.I have one that I wanted to keep that would hang over the pond but he said we would need to drop the water line down some or we may have to take the tree down,now or later after it dies and that it would be easier now before the pond is built.Does anyone have any Oak Trees very close to their pond that is doing good?


You may want to be careful with oak trees overhanging ponds, or oak leaves in ponds. Some people have had bad experiences with the impact of oaks on ponds & fish.
Posted by: SetterGuy

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 06/07/17 11:12 PM

I've got oaks, hickories, ash, walnut, and maples all around my pond. So far I haven't lost any trees (going on three years) around the pond. We've got shade all day at some place on the pond. I really like it that way. I know they dump a lot of leaves in the pond, and suck up,a lot of water, but they are beautiful to look at, and drop the temp an easy 10 degrees when you are in the shade. That's a big oak right behind this feeder..
Posted by: John Fitzgerald

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 06/08/17 12:40 AM

My neighbor has a couple of large ponds in the woods, and the oaks that are about 2 to 3 feet or more above the high water mark are OK. Those at the high water mark or below died within a couple of years after filling. Others in between mostly have died too. Eastern red cedars are flourishing just above the high water mark now.
Posted by: nehunter

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 06/08/17 09:03 AM

I have planted a white swamp oak next to my lake. They have bin under 5 foot of water a couple of times and are still growing, that is the ones the deer have not eaten. I was told, that since swamp was in there name laugh they would work next to water (maybe). They did grow with very little watering and the deer chewed some half way to the ground.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 06/08/17 11:17 AM

Thanks Guys!Sounds like it could be a roll of the dice.lol!I won't get in to big of a hurry to take it down until I see for sure where the water line is going to be.
I still haven't gotten the green light from the wife to start yet anyway,but she is starting to soften some about the price.lol!
Posted by: John Fitzgerald

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 06/08/17 11:39 AM

In my opinion you should get more bids. The costs between NW Arkansas metro area (pop over 300k) and your area shouldn't be that much different. Around here, in good clay, fairly flat with good accessibility, and not many trees, the cost is not more than $12k per acre.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 06/08/17 02:57 PM

Unfortunately I only have one of those.lol!My clay is good,but it's in a deep wooded ravine with steep sides and he is going to have to clear an area just to stock pile all the top soil until he is ready for it.He said when things are right he can build around a 1 acre pond for $10,000.00,that doesn't mean I can't find someone that can do a good job cheaper but I'm having a hard time finding anyone to give me prices at all..lol!
Originally Posted By: John F
In my opinion you should get more bids. The costs between NW Arkansals metro area (pop over 300k) and your area shouldn't be that much different. Around here, in good clay, fairly flat with good accessibility, and not many trees, the cost is not more than $12k per acre.
Posted by: snrub

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 06/08/17 08:32 PM

Originally Posted By: Bobbss
The new guy I'm talking to said Oak Trees don't do well to near ponds.I have one that I wanted to keep that would hang over the pond but he said we would need to drop the water line down some or we may have to take the tree down,now or later after it dies and that it would be easier now before the pond is built.Does anyone have any Oak Trees very close to their pond that is doing good?


I left about a 2' diameter pin oak that was right at the edge of full pool level in my sons pond that I refurbished. People told me it would likely die, and it did. Did not last too long

Last picture 014 shows the tree to the left of the picture

Post where I reported it had died. And a report of a bigger pin oak that lives at waters edge just fine. It grew up by the creek though, and the one that died did not have water previously up close to it.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 06/08/17 08:59 PM

Not sounding to good for my Oak Tree.lol!
He said a big part of the cost for me is he has to strip 2-2 1/2 feet of top soil off the whole pond area.
Posted by: John Fitzgerald

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 06/10/17 10:26 AM

Originally Posted By: Bobbss
Unfortunately I only have one of those.lol!My clay is good,but it's in a deep wooded ravine with steep sides and he is going to have to clear an area just to stock pile all the top soil until he is ready for it.He said when things are right he can build around a 1 acre pond for $10,000.00,that doesn't mean I can't find someone that can do a good job cheaper but I'm having a hard time finding anyone to give me prices at all..lol!
Originally Posted By: John F
In my opinion you should get more bids. The costs between NW Arkansals metro area (pop over 300k) and your area shouldn't be that much different. Around here, in good clay, fairly flat with good accessibility, and not many trees, the cost is not more than $12k per acre.


My area is not real steep, and the clay is down about 8-10inches. The last pond was in a grassy field, no trees. The first one was a renovation, brush and over 50 trees on the dam, and around the pond, average 6" diameter trees, some 12".
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 06/10/17 11:36 AM

Your old pond sounds about like mine,but I have a few trees that might go nearer to 16".I may try to do something with it later,after I get the new one built.There is a lot more water shed to it but it's on the edge of my property and not where I would like it.
Originally Posted By: John F
Originally Posted By: Bobbss
Unfortunately I only have one of those.lol!My clay is good,but it's in a deep wooded ravine with steep sides and he is going to have to clear an area just to stock pile all the top soil until he is ready for it.He said when things are right he can build around a 1 acre pond for $10,000.00,that doesn't mean I can't find someone that can do a good job cheaper but I'm having a hard time finding anyone to give me prices at all..lol!
Originally Posted By: John F
In my opinion you should get more bids. The costs between NW Arkansals metro area (pop over 300k) and your area shouldn't be that much different. Around here, in good clay, fairly flat with good accessibility, and not many trees, the cost is not more than $12k per acre.


My area is not real steep, and the clay is down about 8-10inches. The last pond was in a grassy field, no trees. The first one was a renovation, brush and over 50 trees on the dam, and around the pond, average 6" diameter trees, some 12".
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 06/16/17 01:25 PM

I'm thinking I'm going to end up with some burn piles above my pond,there is no good place below the dam.What little space I have there he is going to need to pile top soil.Will it hurt if I use fuel-oil ect... to help burn it?It's hard to get green stuff to burn without it.
I'm hoping I will get the green light from the wife by next week so I can call him and get on his schedule.He said he could probably start 2-4 weeks after I let him know I'm ready.
Posted by: SetterGuy

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 06/16/17 05:48 PM

Bob,
I burned a lot of the timber in the pond base. I used old tires and diesel to get it going. There was nothing left afterwards. Although when it did initially fill there was some black residue on top of the water. It was there for just a few days. To my knowledge, it had no effect on the water, fish, or anything else. We harvested (I say we, but it was the guys building the pond) about $15,000 worth of trees out of the ravine where the pond ended up. I still had to get rid of all the small stuff, and all the tops from the trees they harvested.
Here's a pic of the nasty looking water when the pond intially filled. It cleared up pretty quickly.
(The black stuff) The clay wouldn't settle out of the water, so Rainman came out and did his Alum magic and made the water as clear as any spring.


Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 06/16/17 10:05 PM

Thanks SetterGuy!I'm thinking that I will be still burning after it starts filling with water.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 06/19/17 11:46 AM

I had a good Father's Day. grin I got a savings account in my name with $15,000.00 in it for my pond!Now as long as I can keep the guy to that budget I'm good to go.That and get the rest of the wood cut and the crap wood and brush burnt.lol!
Posted by: SetterGuy

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 06/19/17 03:20 PM

Outstanding!! Congrats
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 06/19/17 10:46 PM

Thanks SetterGuy!I can't wait to get it built!
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 06/20/17 11:14 PM

I talked to my pond builder today to let him know I was ready to get things set up.I'm going to be out of town on vacation the first week of July so we agreed to shoot for about 4 weeks to start my pond.That will give me some time to cut and burn what I can.
Posted by: Rainman

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 06/20/17 11:45 PM

Bobbss, Congrats! Start thinking now about structure, trenches, mounds, and root balls for your builder. Knowing and planning ahead of time is a LOT cheaper than the job creep costs of telling an equipment operator to stop, and do this or that, as you go along....

Another thing would be to get soil samples from your water shed and basin to get tested and find out how many tons of Ag Lime to add, per acre to bring your pH to 7.4-8.0...again, it is a LOT cheaper to spread in dry ponds.

Last, be prepared to seed ALL disturbed areas as soon as the tracks stop turning to reduce erosion and muddying. Use whatever grass seed you like on the shore, watershed, and a blend of Buck Oats, annual ryegras and wheat in the pond basin areas. As your pond fills, the flooded grasses will jump start your microscopic aquatic life....FHM can go in as soon as you have a permanent foot or two of water....
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 06/21/17 02:33 PM

Thanks Rainman!My builder said he wanted to put some of my root balls in but I told him I wasn't sure if I wanted them in there.I will plan on having him put some in.How many do you think I should put in?The pond will be 1/2-3/4 acre.Most of my trees are around 16" oak,will that matter?
Posted by: Quarter Acre

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 06/21/17 03:28 PM

Bob, if my memory serves me, I think I have read that a pond should have about 20% structure as a rule of thumb. However, I have a hard time defining that. Is it 20% of the shoreline area or the bottom surface or the volume? Hopefully you'll get the attention of someone in the know soon. I have used about 15% of the shoreline from the 2 foot depth to the 6 foot depths of my 10 foot deep pond.

And as far as oaks go, I know I have read that there have been some problems with green oaks going in the ponds before they dried.

Here's a good read on the topic of root wads and trees as structure...

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=434384

I have used Osage Orange wads with no noticeable effect on the FHMs stocked this spring. My water is a little tea colored, but I don't think it is from my root wads alone.
Posted by: Jimmi

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 06/21/17 04:05 PM

I have no regrets that I didn't have any root balls put in mine. Once put in, they're in for good. I'd rather place cover that can be move/removed if need be. If you don't aerate, the deepest part of your pond is probably going to be devoid of oxygen anyway and if that's where you put the root balls, which people often do, they would be useless for cover. If your pond ends up losing water those root balls could end up in the way with no way to get them out of the way. If you end up wanting to use your pond for geothermal and they're in the deepest part, they could also end up in the way.

Most life in a pond happens in the upper few feet. I don't feel like I gave up anything not having the root balls.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 06/21/17 04:28 PM

Thanks,I knew I had read that there could be trouble with oaks and after reading that whole thread I'm back to thinking I don't want them.lol!
Originally Posted By: Quarter Acre
Bob, if my memory serves me, I think I have read that a pond should have about 20% structure as a rule of thumb. However, I have a hard time defining that. Is it 20% of the shoreline area or the bottom surface or the volume? Hopefully you'll get the attention of someone in the know soon. I have used about 15% of the shoreline from the 2 foot depth to the 6 foot depths of my 10 foot deep pond.

And as far as oaks go, I know I have read that there have been some problems with green oaks going in the ponds before they dried.

Here's a good read on the topic of root wads and trees as structure...

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=434384

I have used Osage Orange wads with no noticeable effect on the FHMs stocked this spring. My water is a little tea colored, but I don't think it is from my root wads alone.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 06/21/17 04:31 PM

Thanks Jim,that is kind of the way I was thinking.
Originally Posted By: Jimmi
I have no regrets that I didn't have any root balls put in mine. Once put in, they're in for good. I'd rather place cover that can be move/removed if need be. If you don't aerate, the deepest part of your pond is probably going to be devoid of oxygen anyway and if that's where you put the root balls, which people often do, they would be useless for cover. If your pond ends up losing water those root balls could end up in the way with no way to get them out of the way. If you end up wanting to use your pond for geothermal and they're in the deepest part, they could also end up in the way.

Most life in a pond happens in the upper few feet. I don't feel like I gave up anything not having the root balls.
Posted by: Rainman

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 06/24/17 05:49 PM

When putting in the clay liner, a moderate rain covered the basin beyond what was lined. A berm inside the basin was built to confine the water, and root balls were set on top of the ring, along with trees. At full pool, the trunk tops were about 6 inches under water. Both my fish and my kids loved this area! The kids used the stump tops as diving boards into the deep side when the pool was less than full.

Hell on getting snags, but I never minded.





And once full......
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 06/24/17 08:39 PM

Rainman,what kind of trees were they?Were they green?
Posted by: Quarter Acre

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 06/26/17 09:45 AM

RianMan will probably pop in to answer your question about the greenness of the trees and their type, but due to the lack of bark on the stumps, I would say that they are mostly seasoned. I will take a stab at the types of trees that do have bark from the first pic. Cedar on the left. Pine OR persimmon laying long and horizontal through the center of the pic and Cottonwood and/or oaks in the top right hand corner.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 06/26/17 10:18 AM

Originally Posted By: Quarter Acre
RianMan will probably pop in to answer your question about the greenness of the trees and their type, but due to the lack of bark on the stumps, I would say that they are mostly seasoned. I will take a stab at the types of trees that do have bark from the first pic. Cedar on the left. Pine OR persimmon laying long and horizontal through the center of the pic and Cottonwood and/or oaks in the top right hand corner.
Thanks,I was thinking it looked like a mix and more seasoned than mine.
Posted by: Rainman

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 06/26/17 03:42 PM

All the trees were pushed over and logged. All were also "green". Most were White Oak With a couple Black Oak and Hickory. The large Red Cedar was cut fresh and pulled into place. Some of the stumps were 30" diameter at the cuts, and all the roots were tangled around large rock and topsoil. The berm that had to be built to contain water was flattened on top and the stumps place in a semi-circle. We called it the Budweiser crown area.

Catfishing was amazing on the Dam side of the stumps where water quickly dropped from 7 to 25 feet off the shelf. The shallow side of the circle had a small submerged island, and 2 holes that where 18 feet deep...all aerated.

We also pulled out a Black Walnut that did not go into the pond, but that tree alone more than covered building costs as it was graded for veneer and the first limb was about 25" up...got a 22' long log, with the end diameters of about 34" and 26".

Near full pool in 10/2014


Low pool in 2012


The deer wallow it all started as...
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 06/26/17 11:03 PM

Originally Posted By: Rainman
All the trees were pushed over and logged. All were also "green". Most were White Oak With a couple Black Oak and Hickory. The large Red Cedar was cut fresh and pulled into place. Some of the stumps were 30" diameter at the cuts, and all the roots were tangled around large rock and topsoil. The berm that had to be built to contain water was flattened on top and the stumps place in a semi-circle. We called it the Budweiser crown area.

Catfishing was amazing on the Dam side of the stumps where water quickly dropped from 7 to 25 feet off the shelf. The shallow side of the circle had a small submerged island, and 2 holes that where 18 feet deep...all aerated.

We also pulled out a Black Walnut that did not go into the pond, but that tree alone more than covered building costs as it was graded for veneer and the first limb was about 25" up...got a 22' long log, with the end diameters of about 34" and 26".

Near full pool in 10/2014


Low pool in 2012


The deer wallow it all started as...
Thanks Rainman,are root balls less toxic than the trees?
Posted by: Rainman

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 06/27/17 12:54 AM

I don't see any issue with most trees. Only tree I even know of that poses more danger than most is Black Walnut. Brush piles, green or seasoned, are fish magnets.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 06/28/17 03:17 PM

Will root balls stay put or will they try to float?
Posted by: Rainman

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 06/28/17 08:46 PM

If the root wads are filled with the soil and rock the grew in, they will not float
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 06/29/17 01:07 PM

Thanks Rainman
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 07/28/17 03:59 PM

My pond guy called the other day and said he should be out to start my pond before the end of next week.I won't hold my breath but that sounds great to me.lol!
Can anyone tell me how late into the year FHM will spawn?I'm hoping to get enough rain soon after and that I can get some started this year yet.
Posted by: Centrarchid

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 07/28/17 04:22 PM

Breeding season here rapping up. I presume becuase of interaction between photoperiod and temperature. I have had late spawns when pond chilled by introduction of well water.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 07/28/17 11:15 PM

Originally Posted By: Centrarchid
Breeding season here rapping up. I presume becuase of interaction between photoperiod and temperature. I have had late spawns when pond chilled by introduction of well water.

Thanks,this would be a brand new pond.Would that matter?
Posted by: SetterGuy

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 07/29/17 10:54 AM

I put my FHM into the pond in late summer. I think it was September. I threw in several pallets for them to lay eggs under. I'm not sure they spawned that summer, but the next spring there were clouds of them. I still have really large schools of them. Everything is working on them, so the numbers are down, but they are hanging in there. The water looked like mud when I put them in. They did fine. I don't think they were all that expensive either. I followed the instructions from the guy I bought them from. Four bags that I had sitting in the water to come to temp for quite a while, then slowly mixed in the ugly pond water. I didn't see a single floater.

Looked back through pics. First big rain on the brand new, just completed, pond was Sept 10 2014. My guess is, I stocked the FHM shortly after that.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 07/29/17 11:33 PM

Thanks SetterGuy,I plan to put some in as soon as there is enough water in it and then maybe put more in next spring.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 08/11/17 10:08 PM

At last,they dropped off the first dozer today and should be out Monday with the other and get started on my pond.It's been a long road to get a pond built but it looks like it's finaly getting shorter.lol!
Posted by: Jimmi

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 08/12/17 12:16 AM

Wow Bob. It's been a long road but it sounds like it's finally happening. Hopefully we'll get some long soaking rains after you get done and get it all seeded. If you have any delays on getting the grass to take you can use winter wheat pretty late in the year and get something to hold the soil until next spring. That stuff can practically sprout on a cue ball. Good luck & post some pictures.
Posted by: SetterGuy

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 08/12/17 07:08 AM

Yep.. I used the winter wheat as well. Added bonus was that the turkeys were all over it the next summer.. Came right up, and provided good cover for the fescue.
Bob, glad you are getting started. Good luck with the contractor, and hoping you find good clay the whole way.
Jeff
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 08/12/17 09:26 PM

Thanks Guys!I plan to pick up some seed soon as they are done.I'm hoping that I'm hitting things at the right time.Still going to be warm for a fair while get,but late enough in the year that most of the real hot weather should be over and the fall rains coming.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 08/15/17 03:19 PM

It rained a little here yesterday so he didn't get a lot done.He brought the 2nd dozer out later in the day and did a few hours of clearing and cleaning things up so he could shoot the grade today and find his water line.He should then be able to finish clearing and cleaning things up and start stripping the top soil.I took pictures yesterday and plan to take some every day they work and will try to post some soon.
Posted by: SetterGuy

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 08/18/17 07:10 AM

Bob, we had almost three inches here in St Louis the other day. Naturally, only a half inch up at the farm. Hope you didn't get that much! Hope the construction is going well.
Jeff
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 08/19/17 12:12 PM

Thanks SetterGuy,I did get about 3" of rain here. Which my dirt was so dry that I think he wanted some,but not 3".lol!We got off to a slow start with the rain and one of the dozers broke right off the bat and was down for 2 days but things seem to be going good now. Yesterday they finished cutting the key way and started building the dam. They also built a small sediment pond.I think they wanted to hold back some of the water if it rains.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 08/21/17 08:22 PM

Here is few of the cleared dam site.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 08/21/17 08:27 PM

Here is one after we got the 3" of rain they wasn't planning on.lol!
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 08/21/17 09:01 PM

Here is some after they started building dam.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 08/21/17 09:11 PM

A few more.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 08/21/17 09:16 PM

A few more.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 08/21/17 09:30 PM

Here is one of them working on the little sediment pond.
Posted by: Rainman

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 08/22/17 01:04 PM

It's looking great, Bobbss! Glad you are finally building!
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 08/22/17 01:49 PM

Thanks Rainman!They got rained out again today but I would think they should be done by the end of the week.They have about 6' to go on the dam.One of the guys said he thinks it will end up being over 20' deep.
Posted by: RAH

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 08/22/17 08:03 PM

How did they compact the core?
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 08/22/17 11:13 PM

I know it goes against most of what I've read,but they are using a dozer.He has a sheepsfoot but said do to the steepness and the amount of rock,it wouldn't be worth using,and that he would toe it in with a dozer.He said that's the way he does most of them and claims that built more than 50.A friend of mine's friend had him build 2 ponds and a member here had him build one and said he was happy with it and that he didn't use a sheepsfoot on his.I bought Mike Otto's book and he says a dozer is ok as long as you know how to do it,so I went with it.One of his guys said they fill the bucket and raise it up so it puts the weight on the front of the tracks and that they do 6" lifts with many passes.I watched them a little and it looked like less than 6" lifts to me.
Posted by: John Fitzgerald

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 08/22/17 11:42 PM

When my pond was redone in August 2015, I was not on pond boss forums, and it was only compacted using a dozer. I lose from 3/4 to one inch of water per day due to seepage. I attribute it mostly to poor compaction. I hope you don't suffer the same. I am on my second water pump now due to having to keep up with the leaks with supplemental water. It's a hassle, and not worth it long term.
Posted by: RAH

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 08/24/17 12:35 PM

How is the core steep?
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 08/24/17 02:46 PM

The core isn't steep,the sides of the ravine are steep and it's very narrow.I don't think you could say that any of the bottom of it was really level.About 20' or so wide at the bottom wasn't to bad but it is pretty much to hills meeting each other at the bottom.He said that the narrowness and steepness combination would make it hard to use a sheepsfoot.He also said that the amount of rock in it would make it harder to use the sheepsfoot but it would make it easier to pack using a dozer.He said he would try to use a sheepsfoot but it would cost me more money and that he thought it would be a waste of my money.
Trust me,I worry about it and hope he knows what he is doing.He seems to and came highly recommended.He is the most experienced I could find with over a year of looking.As I said before,Mike Otto said in his book that a dozer will work if done right,so I went for it.I hope Mike Otto knows what he is talking about,but I really really really hope my guy knows what he is talking about.lol!
Posted by: Redonthehead

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 08/24/17 04:09 PM

The wet summer we have had will help a dozer pack the soil. damp/wet soil packs a lot better than dry. Literature says the moisture level is very important.
Posted by: RAH

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 08/24/17 08:14 PM

I wish you luck. I bought a sheep's foot roller for my newest projects. You may be OK depending on local conditions. I have a new wetland on top of a hill full of water in a drought due to proper compaction. It all depends on input vs, loss.
Posted by: SetterGuy

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 08/24/17 10:14 PM

Looks good Bob! Glad to see so much progress! We had a lot of trouble with the sheepsfoot roller on my pond. The rock really plays havoc with them. Don't know if it helped or not. I've got a pretty minor leak, no evidence of where it's coming out.
You'll be ready for some September rains..
Jeff
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 08/25/17 11:09 AM

Thanks Guys.Jeff,I can see where the rocks would be a lot of trouble.The larger ones would probably be getting stuck between the pads and I would think it might cause uneven pressure.But I'm no pro that's for sure.lol!From the pictures you've posted,I would say my dirt is around as rocky as yours,maybe a little more or less.If my pond looks anywhere near as good as yours,I'll be more than happy!
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 08/25/17 11:56 AM

They are hoping to finish today,should I seed right away or wait for rain?
Posted by: Crownfish100

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 08/26/17 01:41 PM

Hello friends, happy to join the forum. I'm planning on purchasing an eight acre home site that has high bluffs and several low slopping area my builders thinks would be a great location for my pond . I need someone to speak with to form a checklist of things to consider before purchasing the property within the next couple of weeks. I'm in the north florida area. Thanks for any input and suggested contacts you can provide. I think this forum is just the thing I need to assist me in my very first pond project.
All the best,
Crownfish100
Posted by: ewest

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 08/26/17 02:43 PM

Welcome Crownfish. Look at this link.

http://www.pondboss.com/item.asp?id=11&r=store%3Fc%3D8

and this thread

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=92487#Post92487
Posted by: John Fitzgerald

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 08/26/17 03:17 PM

Originally Posted By: Bobbss
They are hoping to finish today,should I seed right away or wait for rain?


Seed and straw cover before rain. Rain will cause seed to germinate.
Posted by: Crownfish100

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 08/26/17 06:39 PM

Thanks for responding so fast...... Super I will look into those resources. Does anyone know a ole school pond builder in the North Florida or South Georgia area. I hoping to work with someone who can assist me in the project, I want to be hands on.
Thanks again everyone.
Crownfish100
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 08/26/17 10:43 PM

Thanks John,they finished today and told me to get it down asap!
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 08/27/17 11:38 PM

They finished yesterday and everything looks great to me.If it holds water I'll be 100% happy with the job they did.lol!He said it should be about 3/4 acre and it is 19' deep at the deepest spot.To me it looks like it is over 12' in the middle almost the whole way down the length.I'm going to try and measure the width and length myself to get a better idea of the size.Anybody have any tips on doing that?I picked up a bunch of seed today and he told me to get some rolls of straw matting for the back of the dam to help get things growing sooner so I'll try and do that tomorrow and try to get everything seeded this week.I'll try to get more pictures posted tomorrow also.
Posted by: Matzilla

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 08/28/17 10:35 AM

With this weather you should have no problem getting seed to take on the dam - include some rye in the blend to allow for a nice solid root before winter hits, it'll make overseeding next spring easier. Rent a straw spreader if you're in a rush
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 08/28/17 10:23 PM

Here is some of the back of dam.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 08/28/17 10:37 PM

Some more.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 08/28/17 10:47 PM

Little sediment pond.
Posted by: canyoncreek

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 08/29/17 08:13 AM

Very nice Bob and thanks for the pictures. I was looking at the back side of the dam, you are very close to the paved road. If the dam breached that road would certainly be gone! I'm surprised that let you build the dam so close to the road. But I'm sure if the dam is built right and there is a proper spillway and emergency overflow of some type that the road should be safe for ever right?
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 08/29/17 03:10 PM

Originally Posted By: canyoncreek
Very nice Bob and thanks for the pictures. I was looking at the back side of the dam, you are very close to the paved road. If the dam breached that road would certainly be gone! I'm surprised that let you build the dam so close to the road. But I'm sure if the dam is built right and there is a proper spillway and emergency overflow of some type that the road should be safe for ever right?
Thanks, it wouldn't be a good thing if it broke. Lol!A round here I see a lot of them like that, even closer and bigger than mine.
Posted by: SetterGuy

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 08/29/17 10:32 PM

Looks great Bob. You didn't seem to encounter too much rock. Not nearly as much as I did! Now you just need a little moisture. Right after you get the seed down. wink
Good luck with the seeding. Just a FYI, don't put the grass matts down below the expected water levels. I did where I thought it would be running in too fast. The grass part of the mat dissolved and the netting was left. It acted as a gill net on my GSH..
Posted by: Rainman

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 08/29/17 11:17 PM

Originally Posted By: canyoncreek
Very nice Bob and thanks for the pictures. I was looking at the back side of the dam, you are very close to the paved road. If the dam breached that road would certainly be gone! I'm surprised that let you build the dam so close to the road. But I'm sure if the dam is built right and there is a proper spillway and emergency overflow of some type that the road should be safe for ever right?


Canyon, we have VERY few regulations or restrictions on ponds in Missouri, in non-zoned counties. Unless a dam height from natural ground level exceeds 32' in height, or I think, volume exceeds 60 acre feet of water (points where Federal code apply), no regulations exist or permits needed in non-zoned MO counties
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 08/29/17 11:35 PM

Thanks Jeff,not a lot of large rocks but it is probably rockier than it looks in the pictures.I'm only using the straw mat rolls on the back of the dam.I bought 5 rolls that are 8' X 112'.I started them today and they are a real pain,and wish I hadn't got them.I slide down the dam more times than I care to say,along with everything I was using.It was so dry and dusty.I worked on it all day and only got 3 rolls down and I still need to put a lot of staples in them.Looks like the 5 rolls isn't going to be enough to cover the whole back of the dam so I'm going to just use straw for the rest.They are calling for a little rain here Friday and Saturday so I'm hoping to have everything seeded by then.
Posted by: Redonthehead

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 08/30/17 08:31 AM

I just recently completed a new dam. Shut the dozer off when it started raining at 10AM and got 6" that night which nearly filled the 2 acre pond. No cover or seed down. We re-smoothed the dam and I put down wheat/fescue/millet and straw. Another couple heavy rains including 4" put water out the emergency spillway which bunched up the straw and cut some divets. I replanted it and had the dozer track the straw into the soil as best he could. If it happens again I will look into using the straw mat rolls. Point is I would use the best you have (straw mats) on the emergency spillway slope.

My pond is is west central MO and have had over 12" rain since the dam was finished. I'll try to send some your way.
Posted by: SetterGuy

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 08/30/17 11:26 AM

I put down a lot of seed (wheat and fescue) I didn't use any of the matts on the back of the dam. The dozers had gone up and down vertically and left nice little notches for seed to set into. I threw straw down on top, and up it all came. Have not had any washing issues in three years. I've got small trees starting at the base now.
This Sunday:
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 08/30/17 10:02 PM

Thank guys,I finish the back of the dam today.For the back I used tall fescue and some quick stuff that is 90% annual rye.Everything on the water side will get a mix of the quick stuff(rye),buck oats,wheat and some tall fescue added to the areas above the water line.I also got some shade mix for a few areas that get almost no sun.
I could be wrong,but I think it's going to be a long time before I see water out my spillway.I only have about 7 acres of water shed.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 08/30/17 10:15 PM

Here is a picture of the finish back of dam.I ended up getting 1 more roll and still came up a little short so I just finished it up with straw.
Posted by: Rainman

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 08/31/17 12:38 AM

Looking better every pic, Bobbss!!

I'd strongly suggest winter wheat,buck oats and annual rygrass mixtures in the pond basin as well!! This will almost eliminate muddying water and greatly reduce erosion if a few bigger rain events happen, plus as the pond fills and you add FHM and other forage bases, those decaying grasses provide a huge buffet of food for little fish!
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 08/31/17 10:46 AM

Thanks Rainman,not sure what kind of wheat it is but it was the only kind I could find.lol!I am putting it,the buck oats and the fast blend which is 90% annual rye grass in the whole basin but heavier on the sides.I figured the sides need it more and a lot of it will wash down to the bottom any way.I'm adding the tall fescue to the parts above the water line but I'm sure a lot is going lower to.
Posted by: roundy

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 08/31/17 08:18 PM

Very nice looking project, congrats!
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 08/31/17 10:14 PM

Thanks Roundy!
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 09/05/17 11:16 PM

I went over and measured the pond today with a 100' measuring tape.I came up with 148' wide and 262' long.
We got the first rain last night since I seeded and put down the rolls of straw matting last week.In an area that gets a lot of shade,beleive it or not,I already have a small 4'x 10' patch of grass growing.I guess that the moisture from the dew was enough to get it started and the rain last night made it shoot up.It wasn't enough rain to put anything in the pond but it did help settle down the loose dusty stuff.Now there is no more rain in the forecast,that really sucks.lol!
Posted by: SetterGuy

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 09/06/17 02:00 PM

Excellent! Fescue, for me, can grow anywhere, under almost any conditions, as long as you get some straw on it. I didn't water mine, and it came up thick and strong. Planted on hard clay and rock. No fertilizer, or real soil prep. We did get some timely rains, but I was mowing it in no time. I still am, again, and again.. Ha! Hopefully we will get some more rain in late Sept or Oct. my pond is down close to 18" we haven't received near the rainfall in NE Missouri as the rest of the state. Typical..
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 09/25/17 01:34 PM

I thought I'd give a update.Saturday made 4 weeks since they finished my pond and we're in a drought around here.We've only had 2 small 30 minute or so rain showers and we only have a small chance of a shower this week.
I do have a fair amount of grass trying to grow,considering the lack of rain.
I've made a few small cedar brush piles and several small rock piles,but need to make more.
Posted by: SetterGuy

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 09/26/17 08:42 AM

This drought is frustrating. It's worse up north. I've washed the car and left it out, tried everything. At least the heat will break tomorrow. I'm hoping for a wet October, because August and September were really dry. Did you get your FHM stocked?
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 09/26/17 10:46 AM

SetterGuy,most of the rain you've been seeing down are way has missed me.The 2 little showers we got since the pond was built were about 2 weeks apart,and neither one was big enough to even make a mud puddle in the pond.lol!So no FHM for me,I will probably have to wait till spring to add them,unless something changes soon.I thought we was going to get a little rain tomorrow,but now they're saying it doesn't look like we'll get any.They say a drought feeds a drought,and I would have to say they're right.lol!
Posted by: John Fitzgerald

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 09/26/17 11:25 AM

We are in a new drought here in NW Arkansas. Here, it has rained only 0.6 inches since August 23rd. One pond is down about 30 inches, the other, about 25 inches. Almost the same weather as last year, when we suffered a 5 month drought until late December.
Posted by: SetterGuy

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 09/26/17 12:47 PM

Yep 8/22 was my last real measurable rainfall. I've had three whopping .1" rains since then. Before that it was 7/27 we had 1.5". I'm down at least 2'. The leaves are coming down now. All that mass will bring the water level back up. wink
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 09/26/17 01:22 PM

It's enough to make you wish you had a well to keep them full.lol!I may look into having a well drilled someday,but it will probably have to wait until we get the house built.
Posted by: RAH

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 09/26/17 01:33 PM

Well this has been a great summer to dig a pond. I got the last dirt on top the dam yesterday and will be doing some more shaping of the bowl tonight. Still need to slope the back of the dam. Even with the drought, I am contending with water coming between the upper layer of red clay and the lower layer of grey clay. If it stays dry through next week, I may get-er done between morning and evening hunts (taking a week of vacation).
Posted by: liquidsquid

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 09/28/17 01:53 PM

Same problem here in WNY, went from too much rain to nothing since mid-August. If it is going to be really dry, I would rather it be this time of year since the growing season is over, and like RAH says, a great time to build a pond. The winter is usually pretty good at coming along and filling things up after construction.

It is not good for fall colors though, the leaves are just drying up and falling off as soon as they turn. It has been quite hot up until today and it has backed the colored leaves to a crisp.

My pond is down 6" after being in overflow from January up to August. I was liking that nice full pool.

Have hope, the long-term weather models are predicting a "monsoon gyre" in the center of the Gulf, and those have a tendency of getting sucked up into the CONUS and wrung out. There is a decent chance you will be complaining about an overflow issue soon enough.
Posted by: John Fitzgerald

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 09/28/17 08:08 PM

Originally Posted By: liquidsquid
(snip)
Have hope, the long-term weather models are predicting a "monsoon gyre" in the center of the Gulf, and those have a tendency of getting sucked up into the CONUS and wrung out. There is a decent chance you will be complaining about an overflow issue soon enough.


It's definitely the time of year to be building ponds here, but you would need a water source in order to compact the clay.

Let's hope for rain. My older pond is down over 30 inches, and the new one is down 18 inches. Only had 0.6 inches of rain since August 23rd, all in one hour, on Sept 17.

I wonder if a pond that seeps due to roots will seal once the roots rot out and the clay settles into the spaces?
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 09/28/17 11:11 PM

I did get a very light sprinkle here yesterday morning.It was just enough to make the pavement look wet for a little while,but I'll take every drop I can get for my grass.
I feel sorry for all the people getting hit hard by all of these hurricanes and storms,BUT it would be nice if one of these storms could send a little rain to the rest of us.lol!
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 10/04/17 01:26 PM

Well hopefully my luck is changing.We got a small shower yesterday afternoon and another small one early this morning.We have a chance of rain in the forecast almost every day for the next week.It doesn't sound like they expect to get any large amounts in my area,so I probably still wont get any water in the bottom of my pond,but I'm hopeful that I'll get enough to help the grass out and settle the dirt down some.About 60 miles or so west of me got around 2 1/2 inches I think it was yesterday.The bigger rains seem to keep staying to the west and east of me,but maybe I'll get lucky and get a little more than they think.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 10/10/17 10:51 PM

Finally got a little water in the pond,around 2' I think.
Posted by: SetterGuy

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 10/11/17 07:58 AM

Looks good Bobbss. Looks like we may get some more Sunday. I haven't been to our pond for a while. It seems to be missing al the rain that went through. Some areas in NW MO got 4". I got .5.. It will come.
Looks like the grass is coming in.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 10/11/17 11:13 PM

Thanks SetterGuy,most of the rain has missed me as well.It sucks when you watch the news and they show everyone around you get lots of rain and your just getting a few light showers.We got a lot more rain at my work than I got at my pond.Right now I live about a 1/2 mile (the way the crows fly) from my pond.It is great to see a little water in the pond.I went by today and it had dropped a little,around 4" I think.I figured it would with as dry as the ground was but hopefully it won't drop to much.
It's been 6 weeks today since I seeded and put the straw mats on the back of the dam and I think the grass is looking pretty good considering how dry it's been.Here is a picture I took of it today.
Posted by: smokey

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 10/13/17 11:16 AM

Bobbss, Starting to look great with the grass growing. Congratulations. Just watch what you pray for on the amount of rain you receive at one time. I know you are excited about the pond filling so you can start your dream of stocking fish but I would watch out if you get a gully washer all at one time. The dry sides of the pond may wash a lot of silt into the bottom of the pond. A slow steady rain will fill the pond slowly and with less bank to wash in the pond. Good luck and keep posting the progress.
Posted by: John Fitzgerald

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 10/13/17 01:15 PM

The best way to slow silting is to make at least a partial fill with a pump. I pumped water onto a big plastic tarp, and kept moving the tarp higher as it filled. That is, if you have an external source of water, like a creek, well, or a larger pond.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 10/13/17 10:33 PM

Thanks Smokey.Not that I think that it matters what I hope or pray for,I'm sure I'll get what I get.lol!I'm not hoping for real big rains but it would be nice to get enough to keep the grass growing and add a few inches to the pond here and there.lol!The pond has been bone dry for the last 6 weeks since they finished it until now.
John,I wish I had a source to pump some water in it,I'd sure do it.Maybe someday I can get a well drilled for it.
Posted by: SetterGuy

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 10/15/17 08:29 AM

We got 1.7" up by Hannibal last night! Hope you get a couple inches of rain out of this front. One nice thing about a big hard rain, at least this is what happened on my pond, is that when it comes down hard it almost pounds the clay down and seals it. We had all clay (and rock) so no silting. A real hard rain came early and the clay seemed like concrete after.
Posted by: John Fitzgerald

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 10/15/17 12:15 PM

We only got 0.7 inches. The creek is still mostly dry, a few potholes only. Pond #1 is 32 inches low, #2 is 18 inches low. Another drought is in progress, similar to last fall, so far D1 (moderate drought) by US Drought Monitor, same as Hannibal, MO area.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 10/15/17 11:27 PM

I'm going to have to get me a rain gauge.The news said about .5" but I had a coffee can that I've been using to put oil on my burn piles and it looked like it had almost a inch it.It was enough to put it back up to where it was the other day when it got the first water in it and before it started soaking it up.The grass is looking better!
Glad to hear you guys are getting some rain too.
Posted by: John Fitzgerald

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 10/18/17 12:30 PM

Our long term forecast is only predicting 0.6 inches of precipitation through the end of December. I hope it's totally inaccurate. If accurate, that would be a disaster, maybe the loss of both ponds, and all the feeding.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 10/18/17 10:50 PM

John I hope their wrong,that would really be sad.I hope I don't have the same long term forecast here.We have a chance of rain and storms this weekend when the next cold front comes in,I'll keep my fingers crossed.lol!My ground was so dry that it's soaking a lot of the water I got up,but not as fast as it was at first.
Posted by: John Fitzgerald

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 10/22/17 11:56 AM

It was wrong already. We got 1.9 inches out of the storm that came through between 1 AM and 7 AM this morning. We didn't get much run off; the ponds only gained about 2.5 inches. How much did you guys up in NE MO get?
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 10/22/17 07:53 PM

That's great John.We didn't get much.We got a few very fast short showers that only lasted a few minutes each yesterday that they wasn't even calling for.They talked like we was going to get a fair amount last night but we only got a small shower around 7 am and we've gotten some heavy mist today with a few sprinkles.Pobably lucky if I got over .25 inches all together.It all helps!
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 10/23/17 11:08 AM

John I think the rain you got made it's way up to me last night,radar showed it coming up from down your way.We had sprinkles and light showers all night.Looking at what is in my bird bath,it looks like we got a little over 1 inch for the whole weekend.A good slow soaking rain.It should really help my grass,and it did put a few inches in the pond.
Posted by: SetterGuy

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 10/26/17 10:05 AM

Hard to say how much we received up north, from each front.
I know I had about 2" from the climate dot com reports. When I got to the rain gauge it had 3.5" in it! So, one of the climate dot com reports was off. I'm still about 2' from full, but I was about 4' from full last year. Doesn't look like much in the forecast for the next few weeks..
Posted by: John Fitzgerald

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 10/26/17 09:13 PM

I'm still down 30" from full. This date last year, was down 32-1/4".
It's been much the same weather as last fall. Last fall's drought didn't begin to break until late December.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 10/26/17 11:08 PM

The last front had strong winds and blew over a fair size tree (which also knocked over a few smaller ones) into my pond.I've been working on cleaning it up after work the last 2 days and still have more to do.While doing that I notice a dead tree that looks like it will come down soon in my pond area so I think I will take it down so I can clean it up before the pond fills.Cutting and burning wood and brush is starting to get old,thats about all I've done for the last 7 months.lol!
Posted by: John Fitzgerald

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 10/27/17 10:32 AM

Originally Posted By: Bobbss
(snip) Cutting and burning wood and brush is starting to get old,thats about all I've done for the last 7 months.lol!


It does get old. I did that pretty steady during the cooler months from November of 2013 (when we moved to this place) until I mostly finished by late spring 2016. Parts of this place had been totally neglected for 10 to 20 years, and I had only a chain saw, brush mower, loppers, and only limited extra help to get it done. We also hauled off about a ton of scrap metal and old fencing mixed in with parts of the brush.

You will want some cover in the pond. I made a few large bundles of briars and honeysuckle that were wrapped around small trees and sunk them in the ponds. It helped to build the forage base by providing shelter for fry and small fingerlings.
Posted by: SetterGuy

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 10/27/17 01:15 PM

I cut some pretty good sized cedar trees and put them in before the pond was full. This is in April of 15. I had FHM in, but not the YP, RES, and GSH. They've helped for sure. I had to swim them it a bit further from the bank. It was chilly in April. The pic also shows the SMB beds I was building.

Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 10/27/17 03:21 PM


I have made 3 cedar brush piles and about 10 small rock piles.I also have some root wads.I've been setting some more cedar a side to make more piles and plan to make more rock piles.The sides of my pond are so steep that I don't have a lot of good places to make them.
Posted by: John Fitzgerald

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 10/27/17 04:17 PM

Bobbss: If you can get some old carpet, put the rock piles on top of it. It will help keep rocks from sinking into muck.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 10/27/17 11:19 PM

John,I may give that a try.The ones I've made so far are on such steep ground that I've been trying to get the rocks to stick down in the dirt to keep them from sliding to the bottom.
Posted by: snrub

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 10/27/17 11:47 PM

You can stake things down if they might be prone to drift down the slope. Surveyor grade stakes are pretty cheap and work well.

Giant zip ties work well to attach cedar trees to a concrete block to keep them from wandering around the pond. You can buy 36" really heavy duty zip ties (used to secure flexible duct work in attics) in bags of 100 for a very reasonable price. Bought in bulk from a plumbing supply store they are not much different in price than a bag of 12" zip ties.
Posted by: snrub

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 10/27/17 11:51 PM

Originally Posted By: Bobbss
John,I may give that a try.The ones I've made so far are on such steep ground that I've been trying to get the rocks to stick down in the dirt to keep them from sliding to the bottom.


Get a few grade stakes or scrap lumber ripped for stakes, a scrap piece of board, stake the board in the bank to let the rocks pile up against. Drive the stakes in deep enough and screw the board to the stakes so the lumber will not float. Under water the board will likely last ten years.

I used a loader bucket to cut a notch in the bank to create a ledge so my rock piles would not migrate down. But that might not be a good idea in a pond that has a clay liner or is compacted. We have soil that is not prone to leaking so I did not have to worry about disturbing compaction layers.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 10/28/17 12:08 AM

Thanks Snurb,I've thought about doing something like your saying with the wood but wasn't sure if I should.I was thinking of using some small cedar logs.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 11/02/17 11:03 PM

Here is a few picture of the grass on the dam.The back is looking pretty good,the front is a little slower in covering.I think some of the problem is they ran out of good dirt at the end of the build and the water side didn't get as much good top soil spread on things.The back also got the straw blankets that helped a lot.Every time I go to Farm and Home I get 15 ponds or so of Winter Rye and through it on the thin spots.It's hard to tell from the water side picture,but it is starting to come up all the way down to the water.
I noticed today that the little bit of water it does have,is still muddy but is starting to get a green film on it.
Posted by: John Fitzgerald

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 11/02/17 11:17 PM

Good job. It looks better than either pond of mine did at the same stage of re-vegetation.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 11/02/17 11:29 PM

Thanks John.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 11/03/17 01:43 PM

I don't know if I need to seed anymore, but can anyone tell me how late in the year I can throw out Winter Rye (which I guess is winter wheat) and it still come up?I don't want to waste my time or money if it won't come up.lol!Is there anything else that will come up late in the year?Earlier I planted Buck Oats,Wheat and Rye Grass on everything on the water side,with some tall fescue above the water line.Then I started adding the Winter Rye mostly to the thinner spots.The Deer sure like it,and their not helping maters much.lol!I've also been re strawing a little as the wind blows it around.
Posted by: John Fitzgerald

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 11/03/17 02:11 PM

I threw out some winter wheat the first part of December of 2015 and got limited germination. Some of it laid on the ground and came up the next spring. I think for your location, you are now about 5 weeks late, but depending on weather anomalies, you might get some results. Your pond is looking really good. I think you would be better covering the bare spots with straw now instead of trying for grass this late in the season. If it's where it will blow you could hold it down with landscape netting.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 11/03/17 03:29 PM

Thanks John,we've had a few cold days here and it's been as cold as 28 in the morning 2 times I think but it's been warm for the most part.Yesterday was 79,today is in the 60s,not sure what tomorrow is suppose to be but Sunday is suppose to be 79 again and cool off again Monday.
I think I have enough seed down, what I really need is more rain.It's been almost 2 weeks since the last rain.I have a small chance of rain tomorrow night when the warm front comes in, and a better chance Sunday night and Monday when the cold front comes in.
Posted by: John Fitzgerald

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 11/03/17 03:54 PM

Bob,
We received about 4.3 inches of rain in October, according to the average of my two rain gauges. Nearly half of it was in the 1.9 inch rainfall on October 22nd. The others were piddly, slow rains averaging about a half inch each. We only received a total of 0.6 inches in September. It still seems dry here, moderate drought according to the US Drought Monitor website. October didn't come close to making up for September. We need a good three day rain of about 4" total.

It's 81 degrees here now, and humid. Dew point is 65 deg.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 11/03/17 09:24 PM

I was wrong,it's tonight that I have a slim chance of a small shower,not tomorrow night.Sunday,Monday and Tuesday I have a better chance.I hope we get something,the little bit I have is drying-soaking up slowly but surely.
Posted by: SetterGuy

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 11/15/17 08:27 AM

We keep getting a tenth here, and a tenth there. It isn't filling up the pond, but it ought to be helping your grass come in. Got another chance on Saturday.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 11/15/17 11:19 AM

The little rain we got last night put a few inches back in it,as did what we got last Sunday and Monday.It keeps soaking it up and still hasn't gotten any higher than it did when I got that first big rain that put water in it.I'm hoping we'll get a better rain this weekend,but I'm going out of town to Branson Saturday morning and won't get to see it.
The grass is doing ok,but it is slowing down on the growing with the colder temps we have now.I'll post some new pictures before this weekend.
Posted by: John Fitzgerald

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 11/15/17 02:05 PM

We only received 0.3 inches out of the system in two days. Of course, no runoff.
Posted by: TGW1

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 11/16/17 06:42 AM

John, I am pretty sure we are in the same boat when it comes to rainfall events this past 6 months. Dry Dry Dry! This past month was the highest electric bill I have ever had. I have a meter set up just for the water well. If it was not for the well I would be down 3' at least.
Posted by: SetterGuy

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 11/16/17 07:22 AM

I'll be down 3' in another month or so. Wish I had a well, but then again, I don't think I'd want to run the pump enough to keep the pond full. wink
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 11/19/17 05:53 PM

I was planning on taking some pictures Friday after work but ended up working late and it was dark by time I got home.I went over Thursday when I got off early and blew leaves off the back of the dam until it got dark.They were starting to kill my young grass. I will have to take some new pictures next weekend when I get home from Branson. I will need to blow more leaves also.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 11/27/17 11:20 PM

I went over and blew more leaves off the dam yesterday.The whole area needs it but I doubt that I will ever do it.lol!I do want to blow them off the sediment pond dam as soon as I get time.
They said on the news last night that we are still in a drought around here,which is getting old.lol!
Here is a few new pictures.
Posted by: canyoncreek

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 11/28/17 07:48 AM

Bobbss, I love your setting, beautiful, I can only imagine how exciting and nice the setting will be when you are at full pool!
Posted by: SetterGuy

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 11/28/17 08:18 AM

Bobbss, I hope this drought ends soon. We seem to just go from one drought to the next though. Weird times for sure.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 11/28/17 01:32 PM

Thanks Canyoncreek!I'll be glad to see it full thats for sure.We plan to build a new house on one of the ridges just above the pond.The back of the house will probably only be 100'-150' from the pond so I should have a nice view from our back deck.
SetterGuy,I won't stop hopping we get enough rain soon to fill it up or at least enough that fish could live in it but I'm starting to think it probably won't fill until spring rains.
Posted by: snrub

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 11/28/17 10:39 PM

Looks good Bobbss! Nice thick stand of grass.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 11/29/17 11:15 AM

Thank Snrub!I've never really seeded anything before so I wasn't real sure what I was doing.lol!I threw a little more seed in areas that I thought would get more water run off.With as dry as it's been,the areas that get some shade have done much better.What really doesn't help is they ran out of the better soil (top soil) on the sunny side when they was finishing things off,so it has more clayish-rockfish dirt on top and stays drier from the sun.At least they had enough for the back of the dam.
Posted by: John Fitzgerald

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 11/29/17 03:56 PM

We got 0.4" of rain this morning. No run off. Raised the pond 0.4". This is typical of the past 100 days, save for one better rain.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 11/30/17 11:51 AM

John, I wish we would of got that much!lol!We barely got enough last night to get the pavement wet.Wasn't enough to measure, the bird bath was only damp. Lol!
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 12/05/17 11:34 PM

We got about a half inch (I think)of rain last night,which gave me a few inches of water back in the pond.That was the first rain that was enough to measure,I've had in over 2 weeks.My pond has been done for well over 3 months,and still haven't had any big rains.
Posted by: SetterGuy

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 12/06/17 07:52 AM

Bobbss, doesn't look like much coming either. At least nothing through Dec 20. My guess is we will be seeing white stuff before we get any rain. Driest fall I can remember. Sure made it easy getting all the leaves out of the yard, but that is the only benefit. This is getting ridiculous. It's to the point that I don't even remember what "normal" rainfall means. We had a 1.2" rain Aug 22. Since then it's all been in .5" or less, and not many of those.
I hope you at least got a few inches out of that last front.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 12/06/17 10:50 PM

SetterGuy,I think it gave me 3-4 inches.With the area being freshly cleared,I seem to get a fair amount of run off if the rain comes down fairly fast and hard.
Posted by: TGW1

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 12/07/17 07:40 AM

Originally Posted By: SetterGuy
Bobbss, doesn't look like much coming either. At least nothing through Dec 20. My guess is we will be seeing white stuff before we get any rain. Driest fall I can remember. Sure made it easy getting all the leaves out of the yard, but that is the only benefit. This is getting ridiculous. It's to the point that I don't even remember what "normal" rainfall means. We had a 1.2" rain Aug 22. Since then it's all been in .5" or less, and not many of those.
I hope you at least got a few inches out of that last front.


I have to agree with this being the driest fall I can remember. I hoped to get a decant rain out of this present front but it did not happen at my place. Maybe an inch if I was lucky. We are many miles apart your place and mine, but I think the rain since last June is probably the same. Really need about a week of good rain
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 01/22/18 11:46 PM

Well with the few small rains and snows we got the last part of Dec. and first part of Jan., it had my pond back up to about as high as it was after the first and only half way good rain I had since my pond was finished 5 months ago.A lot of that first rain got sucked up pretty quick and the handful of small rains since then had just kept it a little below that highest point it was.Last night we got about 3/4" of rain,which gave me probably 4"-6" in the pond and made it the highest it's ever been.Still not much water in it but it was nice to see it higher than it's ever been.Last night the weather man said we are still listed as in a severe drought.I hope it is over soon.I want to start stocking early spring.
Posted by: Jimmi

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 01/23/18 03:06 PM

I built my pond in the middle of a drought too and I well remember right where you're at now grin I swear I never thought it was ever going to top then the drought broke and I got a couple of 3-4' rises overnight. Right now I'm down 3'10" on a normally 14.5" deep pond.

The 3-month forecast for Jefferson County shows drought remaining but moderating (they said that before!). At the same time they show a prediction of a 33% chance of above average rainfall for February and also for the 3-month period through April. I'll believe it when I see it.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 01/23/18 03:59 PM

Hi Jim,been meaning to check in with you and see how your pond was doing in this drought.I knew it would take a while but I did think it would be at least 25% full after 5 months.lol!The only run off I've gotten so for is from the freshly cleared area around the pond.The rest of my water shed area has been so dry that it pretty much soaks it all up when we do get a little rain.The little sediment pond has been holding water real well but has very little in it and most of my water shed area feeds it first..There was nothing cleared around it,it's all heavy woods.Looks like we have another chance of a small rain this weekend,something is better than nothing.lol!
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 02/16/18 09:28 PM

When I last reported my highest water level yet,it didn't last long.I knew it raised it as much as it did because the ground and pond had been frozen for a long time.As soon as the ground thawed is soaked it up.We got about the same amount of rain last night but it only gave me about a 1/4 of what it did when the ground was frozen.They think we might get enough rain starting Monday,to give us a break in the drought.I sure hope so,in about another week or so it will make 6 months since the pond was finish and it still don't have more than a foot or so of water in it..Thats a long time to wait to see if it looks like it will hold water.lol!
Has anyone else here had to wait that long to get more than a foot or two of water in their new pond?
Posted by: John Fitzgerald

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 02/16/18 10:39 PM

We have not had a super good rain here locally since late December 2015, and are in a prolonged state of drought also.
Edit: We received 1/2" of rain Friday night. No runoff. Typical.
Posted by: Dave Davidson1

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 02/17/18 07:31 PM

John, I'm 5 ft low with the 7th wettest year on record.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 02/17/18 11:30 PM

John,after watching the weather last night,I thought you was going to get some.This morning we got a little snow,about 1",and then a light rain after.Probably didn't add up to more than .10" of water all together,but I will take all I can get.They say starting late tomorrow night we are going to have rain off and on for a few days.They just said on the news while I was typing this that my area should get around 2.3" over the first 3 days or so of the week and a chance for more later in the week.All I can say is bring it on.lol!Are they saying your going to get any down there John?From what I see,it looks like you should.
They also just said that my area right now is considered in a extreme drought and that all the areas surrounding my area are considered to be in a severe drought.They say we are down around 9" since August.
Posted by: Dave Davidson1

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 02/18/18 11:24 PM

We are supposed to get rain for the next week. But, small amounts each day. Man, I need RAIN!
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 02/18/18 11:47 PM

Dave,we are supposed to get the same thing.They say we may get a few small thunder storms mixed in and they did up the amount we may get to 3"-4",but they say it will be a slow soaker for the most part.
Posted by: SetterGuy

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 02/19/18 08:40 AM

Bob, it's raining! Ha! Been so long, I forgot what it sounds like. We may not get much today, but they are saying "possibly" over an inch tomorrow. I sure hope so. My pond is down over 4' from full, but I think August was the last real rain we've had.
Up at our pond the guys that had alfalfa planted told me they are giving up. They haven't got nearly the yield from it that they hoped. I can't get it enrolled into CRP, so I've found a guy that wants to clean out the alfalfa and put in beans this spring, and wheat in the fall. Not sure how that'll impact my little pond. Lots of mud will probably get washed in when they get rid of the alfalfa. (It has to really rain again sometime!).
Hope you get a couple of inches this round, that turns into feet in terms of pond depth. Get those FHM started!

Jeff
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 02/19/18 12:10 PM

Jeff,it has been a long time.That big rain in August came right when they started digging my pond,which did help with the compaction.
They are saying Thursday may be dry, but other than that some rain every day from now thru Sunday.The small rain we had last Thursday night and the light snow and rain we got Saturday morning gave me a few inches back in the pond and has the ground a little soggy already.So I'm hoping to see a couple feet in the pond with all of this,and will be surprised if I don't get at least one foot.
I know all the ponds I see around me that aren't spring fed or have very large water sheds are down 3'-4'.The old silted in pond on my property is down about 3',it looses the first foot pretty fast and then slows down, but it has a very large water shed for it's size.A few weeks ago while it was frozen I went out on it and made some hole so I could see how deep it is and it only had about a foot left in it.After I build on the property and I'm living on it I may try to clean it out.
Jeff,would putting some bails of straw in the right place help keep some of the mud out of your pond when they start tilling?
I hope all of us caught in this drought gets a lot of rain this week!
Posted by: SetterGuy

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 02/19/18 12:30 PM

Good idea about putting down some bales. I will do that in the main two culverts co inv out of the fields.
I was talking to one of my neighbors early last week. I asked him what he thought about the "no rain, ever" situation. He said he and a few others around think we are cursed. Ha! It feels like it sometimes. We get some big rains, and my pond fills up three years now, but then the rain stops, and it starts to drop. If I could get our "average of 3.5" a month, I'd be fine. But month after month with less than an inch gets old.
The good news for you is, south of I 70 seems to do better..
Posted by: John Fitzgerald

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 02/19/18 01:09 PM

Jeff and Bob,
We are in the same situation. Big rain came through this morning about 20 miles west of here, but we only got 1/10 inch. We are cursed also.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 02/19/18 01:13 PM

Jeff maybe we are cursed,I just figured it was my fault for building a pond.lol!Who else has luck so bad that they build a pond and it goes straight into a drought.lol!
Jeff don't you live in the St. Louis area?I live on the northern edge of High Ridge in between Fenton and High Ridge,my new property with the pond is only 2,500' from where I live now.On Channel 2 News they've been showing a drought map with me being in the worse part.So right now I'm not feeling to lucky about being south of I70.lol!I hope your right that it's normally better south of it.
I never watched or cared about the weather so much in my life till I built this pond.lol!
When my boss found out I built a pond he told me of a Charlie Brown comic that he had read that Charlie Brown said he wished he had a pond,when it wasn't raining he could go fishing, and when it was raining his pond would be filling.It made me think that everyone should have a pond,it would make them like rainy days.lol!
Posted by: Redonthehead

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 02/19/18 01:22 PM

Here is the current drought map of MO; http://droughtmonitor.unl.edu/CurrentMap/StateDroughtMonitor.aspx?MO

Being on the west side in "D0" my place is in better shape than you guys. I have about 5.5 feet to go to fill the new pond. The dry fall and armyworms kept my grass planting from doing a good job last September so I expect to have a bit of erosion and muddy water if we get a heavy downpour. Hopefully it will warm up and the grass takes off.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 02/19/18 01:53 PM

John we were getting light rain at the house this morning when I left for work.We got a little thunder but I never really seen it come down hard.Watching the weather before I left the radar showed me being on the edge of things with the heaver rain being a little west of me too.It did look like heavier rain was working my way a little.I ran into a few heavier patches of rain on my way in to work and we've had a light drizzle here at work since I got here.
Redonthehead,thanks for the map!I'm in the D3 Zone.I bought a little more grass seed yesterday to help with my thinner areas.I plan to wait a little longer before I put it down.
Posted by: SetterGuy

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 02/19/18 02:25 PM

Looking at the map, I'm only in the moderate drought area at the farm. Seems a lot drier up there than down here near St Louis, which is on the line between severe and extreme. We are getting it pretty good near St Louis right now. Looking at radar up north, it's all going just south of my pond.. How's that go, if it weren't for bad luck, I'd have no luck at all. Haha. It'll come, I've been full three times in three years. I suspect it'll be full again. Hope the fish are ok. Had 4+" of ice on it for a month. While it was down 4'. Should have still had 10' depth for the fish, but that top 4' represents a lot of water.
Posted by: John Fitzgerald

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 02/19/18 02:51 PM

Here's my way of getting a little water in the pond...transfer it from one part of the same watershed to another. It's rained just enough to get the creek flowing a little.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 02/19/18 03:41 PM

Jeff I work a little over a mile north of down town and it just slowed down some but it was coming down pretty good.I just looked at the radar it looks like it is clearing up some around here but it looks like it is raining pretty good up north by Hannibal.Not sure if that's where your pond is but I was thinking it was.
John I wish I had creek near mine to do that!
Posted by: SetterGuy

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 02/19/18 05:59 PM

We may even get a couple of inches from this front. That's the most since August. I'm hoping.
Posted by: John Fitzgerald

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 02/19/18 06:56 PM

I managed to put 4-5/8 inches of water into my pond this afternoon with the pump. Turned 0.6 inches of rainfall into the equivalent of more than 2".
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 02/19/18 11:04 PM

That's pretty good John,I think we got around the same amount and it looks like it put a little over 2" in my pond.They say we should get more tonight and more in the morning.
Posted by: Bill D.

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 02/20/18 07:51 AM

Frozen ground covered with 16 inches of snow. Last night was in the 40s and it rained an inch or so. The pond came up 5 feet over night, is over the spillway and flooding the surrounding area this morning.
Posted by: John Fitzgerald

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 02/20/18 10:17 AM

That's great , Bill D. Our temp has been pretty consistent in the mid-upper 60s the past two days. Little thunderstorms here and there. Mostly there.
Posted by: Redonthehead

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 02/20/18 02:07 PM

Two inches of rain thus far this AM with more training over the farm to come. Hope it makes it over to your place on the east side!
Posted by: Redonthehead

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 02/20/18 02:41 PM

I am 1.5 hour drive south of my place so I try to check the web for rainfall. Of course the NWS uses radar to estimate precipitation but here is another resource that may be helpful and more accurate to some of you who live away from your pond:

USGS has stations along major rivers which include a precipitation gauge. This one is close to my land and updates about every hour:

https://waterdata.usgs.gov/mo/nwis/uv?site_no=06921720

If you go here and click on the dot nearest your place, there may be one close to you: https://waterdata.usgs.gov/mo/nwis/rt
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 02/20/18 03:37 PM

Thanks for the links Redonthehead.
I still have hope,but I've already got less rain than I thought I would by now.I got no more rain last night,but it was sprinkling this morning when I left for work,and I ran into a few good patches on my way in.I checked the radar from my phone earlier and every time I did,there was a hole in the rain right over my area.lol!Last time I cheked it showed nothing near me.Today it looks like things stayed more east of me.lol!
I still need to get a rain gauge, but I did set a bucket out last when I got home so I can at least get some idea what I'm getting.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 02/20/18 03:46 PM

I just checked again and it shows a lot of rain to the west of me and it looks like the cold front may be pushing it my way.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 02/20/18 04:44 PM

Just figured out how to work the radar thing on my phone and if I jump it forward 1 hour it shows me in the rain again.That raised my hope back up some.lol!
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 02/21/18 04:12 PM

Well the good news is I got a lot of rain last night and it gave me around a foot of water.The bad news is it started a small mud slide.It is below the water line.There is a bit of a low area on the hill side above it so I'm sure it gets a little more water flow in that area.I'm going to go over after work and see if I can come up with an easy way to redirect some of the water flow in that area.If it doesn't slide to much maybe it will just make a small shelf.lol!
First it's no rain then it's to much at a time.lol!We still have up to 3" more coming this week.I hope it doesn't slide enough to hurt things!
Posted by: SetterGuy

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 02/21/18 06:23 PM

We got 2.1" up north. It came down so slowly though that there was zero run off. Still really helped.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 02/21/18 11:30 PM

I'm glad you got some up there Jeff.I think I've gotten around 2.5" all together so for,with near 2" of it coming yesterday and last night.I think it coming down as slow as it did is what helped make the mud slide.
Posted by: John Fitzgerald

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 02/24/18 10:10 AM

Hey SetterGuy and Bobbss,
Please give us an update on your pond levels.

We have had over 4" rain in the past few days, and my older pond was only 4.5 vertical inches from the e spillway this morning, and the new one was only about 1/2 inch from spilling over. A little more rain expected today.
Posted by: SetterGuy

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 02/24/18 10:48 AM

Wow! Yep, we've had a lot more down here than up my our place. We did get the 2", but that was without any runoff. I'm guessing I'm still 4' below full, as it probably came up 6" at most. Just .3" since then, with light showers predicted later today. Post a pic of your new pond, almost full.. It's been so long since I've seen one I can't remember what a full pond looks like. Here's a satellite pic of our place, showing the pond at about the level it's at now.

Posted by: John Fitzgerald

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 02/24/18 11:26 AM

Here's a pic of the new pond. It's since come up about 1/4 inch and is now lipping the spillway.
Posted by: SetterGuy

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 02/24/18 01:31 PM

Originally Posted By: John Fitzgerald
Here's a pic of the new pond. It's since come up about 1/4 inch and is now lipping the spillway.


A full pond! Nice.. I don't know why my pic isn't showing up for you. It must be something to do with Photobucket. I'll try to post a link. If I can remember how to do it.
Posted by: SetterGuy

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 02/24/18 01:32 PM

See if this works.
Posted by: John Fitzgerald

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 02/24/18 05:42 PM

After 0.85 inches more rain early this afternoon, both my ponds are up to 0.3 acres and running over the grassy spillways with no noticeable erosion. Here's a pic of each spillway. The first one is older pond. It empties into the newer pond.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 02/24/18 09:11 PM

The rain I got Tuesday night gave me well over a foot I think but by yesterday after work about half of that or more had soaked up.It had only gave me 4 or 5 inches in the sediment pond.Last night I got just over 2 1/4 inches of rain.When I got up this morning water was running in my ditch out front so I new it was a good one,so I ran over to check things out.The little sediment pond was full and still had a little water flowing over the spill way.The main pond was up 2 foot or so.This afternoon we got just enough rain to put my new rain gauge on the 3" mark with last nights rain.I went back over right when the rain stopped,there was still a little water flowing from the sediment pond and I had about another foot in the main pond.I think I have over 4' in it now.I just hope it don't soak up to much of it.My pond builder says with as dry as it's been,that it's going to soak up a lot as it fills.I will try to get some pictures up later.
John,I'm glad to hear your full!
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 02/24/18 11:17 PM

Here is a few of the little sediment pond.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 02/24/18 11:26 PM

Here is a few of the main pond.
Posted by: SetterGuy

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 02/25/18 09:24 AM

Looking good Bob. Hopefully we will get some more rain in the weeks ahead.
John, glad you are full. Be nice to go back to average rainfall again.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 02/25/18 10:44 AM

Thanks Jeff!I'm glad to see some water in it,now I just got to hope it holds it.lol!My pond builder said with as dry as it's been the ground has cracks in it and it's going to soak up even more water than we want until things close up.I'm getting ready to go check on it and will be keeping a close eye on things and won't be able to rest till I know it's holding.lol!
They say we should get more rain in the middle of the week,but their not saying how much.I hope you get some up north.
Posted by: John Fitzgerald

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 02/25/18 11:23 AM

Bobbss, you could go ahead and stock FHM and BG any time now. You have plenty of water for that, as long as your pond is holding water well enough.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 02/25/18 01:37 PM

Thanks John,I just got back from checking on things.The little sediment pond had dropped a few inches,which he didn't build to hold water but he said it might anyway and I hope it does.The main pond looked good so far.It was up a few more inches from yesterday when the rain first stopped and still had a tiny trickle going in.I plan to go back over in a few hours and check again.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 02/25/18 02:00 PM

John,I plan to order fish as soon as I think it's holding.
Posted by: John Fitzgerald

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 02/25/18 02:29 PM

Bob, How deep will that be when full? It looks like more than 15 feet to me.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 02/25/18 05:32 PM

It should be 19' when full.I just came back from checking on it and really couldn't see any change.It still had a very tiny trickle going in.I'm sure it's got to be soaking some up as dry as it's been and never had any real water in it.I'll check it in the morning.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 02/25/18 08:07 PM

Four weeks ago every thing was brown.About two weeks ago I thought things looked like they might be trying to turn a little green.Last week I could tell that things were getting greener.Now things are really getting green.I did a little more seeding today.I'm just trying to fill in some of the thin spots.Do you guys think it's to early for seeding?I want to make sure I get the spillway area growing as good as I can,in case I get lucky and it fills up and starts flowing.lol!Is anyone else seeing things green up?
Posted by: Jimmi

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 02/25/18 08:47 PM

Pond was down 4' before 6.6" of rain -



EDIT: Reposting image. Trying hosting image over at imgur instead of PhotoBucket which seems to stink like a kettle of dead fish with a massively restrictive bandwidth limit.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 02/25/18 08:56 PM

Jim I can't see your picture.Is your pond full again?
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 02/25/18 09:02 PM

I had one stump float away,I think it was from a dead tree.I have a few more stumps from dead trees,anyone have any suggestions on how to anchor them?
Posted by: Redonthehead

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 02/25/18 09:07 PM

Originally Posted By: Bobbss
Do you guys think it's to early for seeding?I want to make sure I get the spillway area growing as good as I can,in case I get lucky and it fills up and starts flowing.lol!Is anyone else seeing things green up?


I am holding off putting more grass seed down as I believe if it sprouts it can be killed by a freeze. So I am waiting for later in March.

My place came up 5 feet and has about 2 inches going out the spillway pipe. Sure is nice to see it full!
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 02/25/18 09:26 PM

Glad to hear your full Redonthehead.I hope mine gets there before long.
I was thinking that it my freeze the young sprouts.I'll probably wait to put more down.I just put down about $10.00 worth mostly on my spillways.I figured it was worth a chance on those areas,to maybe get a head start.
Posted by: Jimmi

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 02/25/18 09:30 PM

Yes, pond is full and inflow is still about 40-50 gallons per minute. Last night it was about 6" below the emergency spillway - it's a bit lower today but still above pool.

Try these:

4' down on Feb 18

Full pool today

Bob, it appears we got a heck of a lot more rain in southern Jeffco than you got up there. That's disappointing. I thought for sure when they first started talking this rain up that you were going to top. The ground being so dry has sure been an issue. The final batch of rain after the ground was saturated is what pushed me over the top. Without that last batch I wouldn't have topped either.

They're only predicting .25" for the next 7 days so don't know if the drought is on the decline or not.

EDIT: Changed to hosting images over at imgur instead of PhotoBucket
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 02/25/18 10:52 PM

Looks good Jim.I figured I wouldn't be lucky enough to get another 3" rain this week but I was hoping for more than 1/4 inch.lol!
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 02/26/18 12:56 PM

Well I won't be ordering fish today.lol!It dropped a few inches over night.What a roller coaster,on a high yesterday and on a low today.lol!
Posted by: SetterGuy

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 02/27/18 07:29 AM

Took mine a while to establish a regular pace of water level drop. I'm at about 1/4" a day now. I obsessed over it for the first year. Put in polymers to help seal it up. Dug out and repacked around the overflow pipe. I'll bet your, very thirsty, fresh dirt is really sucking up the H2O.
Have you pounded in a stake to measure the drop accurately?
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 02/27/18 01:19 PM

Thanks Jeff!I haven't drove a stake in yet since I still have 15' or so to fill.I was planning to wait until it was near full,but I guess I could go ahead and drive in a few stakes running up the bank that I can measure.How many inches a day were you loosing when it first started filling?
I know I have a lot going against me.It was built at the beginning of a drought and has been in one for the 6 months since it was done.
Posted by: John Fitzgerald

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 02/27/18 01:44 PM

Drive in a few stakes running up the bank and mark them with a black paint pen in inches so you can accurately measure water loss. I made a gauge for mine out of a 48" aluminum ruler fastened to a pipe driven into the bottom. The top of the ruler at 48" is level with the edge of the spillway. Since first filling, through two droughts, I have measured as low as 9". Right now, it's just below 47". I have almost daily readings for a couple years recorded, so I can see if my small leak is getting better or worse.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 02/27/18 03:22 PM

Thanks John,I was planning to do something like your saying with the aluminum ruler when it was full.I was hoping it would fill so fast that it wouldn't be worth messing with anything till it was full.lol!
They say we might get a 1/2 inch or so of rain over the next few days.Not much,but I'll take what I can get.lol!
Posted by: John Fitzgerald

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 02/28/18 12:27 PM

I hope you guys get some more of this rain. We received about 0.9 inches rain since yesterday afternoon. The ponds had receded a little bit, but are now spilling over the grassy spillways again. We have received a little over 7" of rain locally so far this month and it is lightly raining now.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 02/28/18 01:05 PM

John,I seen there was a pretty good rain going on down your way.I only got a heavy mist this moring,and it's dry now.We have a chance for more this evening,but it doesn't sound like much.I think I'm only a little over 5" so far this month,but I could be wrong.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/02/18 11:56 PM

Well nothing good to report.lol!
John,I never got the rain you did.All we got was about .15" over 2 days.We have a chance for more Monday, but it doesn't sound like much.
Pond is still dropping.I've been updating my pond builder with texts and pictures.He called me yesterday and told me he didn't expect it to soak up as much as it has but still thinks it is do to the drought.He said he don't remember ever having one this bad and never had a new pond go straight into a drought for 6 months after building.He also said he thinks another reason it has soaked up so much is he used a lot of a kind of gravelly top soil to fill in some areas at the bottom on the sides (where he was taking out clay) so he could run the high lift safer on the sides to do the finish grading.
At this point I'll just be happy if it stops dropping before it gets as low as it was before we got the rain.lol!
Posted by: SetterGuy

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/03/18 09:17 AM

Bob,
Any idea on how fast it's still dropping? 1" in 24 hrs etc..
I'm up at our place and it appears we got a little runoff. My pond is still down 4' from full, but it looks like everyone around me is down 2-3'. They may get better runoff than I do, and I may still have a small leak. The good news is, that the ice that had been very thick for two months is gone. No dead fish around, and throwing a handful of Optima fish food out caused the water to explode. Looks like my fish survived the winter and ice.
I hope you don't have a leak. It's gut wrenching for sure. Hopefully we will get some good rains in the next few months and you can get a clear picture on it.
There's some really experienced folks here on the forum. Maybe you want to put some soilfloc down now? I don't know if you can work it in to dry ground before rains come.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/03/18 09:12 PM

Thanks Jeff,I wish it was only 1".It was around 3",before my measuring stake went dry the other day.I got a new one in today and got it farther out and will go check it out tomorrow.
I looked into the Soilfloc and it says you need at least 4' of water,it works from the head pressure.It's not cheap either.lol!I think I'll have to wait till we get a few good rains to see what is going on.
Glad to hear your fish are doing good!
Posted by: Rainman

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/04/18 07:39 AM

Bob, is there any extra wetness or flow below your dam? Check to about yards below....
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/04/18 10:39 AM

Rex,I haven't seen anything yet.I will look again today.It really sucks not knowing what is going on yet.I was hoping to be talking to you again very soon about a possible fish order.
Posted by: John Fitzgerald

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/04/18 12:53 PM

Bob, judging from my experiences with other ponds, I will say you probably have a leak. It may get better with settlement if compaction was inadequate, as long as it is a seep and not an actively flowing leak.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/04/18 08:25 PM

John,your probably right.I haven't given up all hope,but I find it hard to believe that it is just soaking in.Then on the other hand I still see cracks in the ground from the drought.I know the last couple of days things started getting real dry and they started running out of better dirt.By that time they was pretty much just working on the spillway,toping off the dam above the spillway and finish grading,cleaning things up.It looked to me like a lot of the dry loose dirt made it's way down the front of the dam as well.I guess it could be soaking thing up some too.I would also say the front of the dam probably didn't get the compaction the core did and could be soaking more in than it should.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/07/18 11:17 PM

Still nothing good here,pond is still dropping.My pond builder did come look at things today.He said he thought the dam looked good and didn't think the water was getting past it and didn't see anything above the water that looked like it would leak.He does think it's leaking some and not just soaking it up.He isn't sure why,and said he didn't see anything during the build that would concern him.He said the drought might of opened a big crack,and the crack may of even opened up to a gravel vain,but he didn't see any gravel during the build.He said it may seal on it's own with time,but thinks while it is low I should try to pen point where the water is flowing by using a powder that floats or maybe food coloring,and work a half pallet or more of Bentonite in if I can get a good idea where it is flowing.He also said if I pump it out he would come back out and look for a smoking gun problem.I'm going to at least try to find the water flow tomorrow after work.
Posted by: Rainman

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/08/18 03:13 AM

Bobbss....don't waste your time or money trying bentonite....it will not seal unless it's worked into the soil and compacted properly. IIRC, you were in a drought when building the pond, and if the clay was dry then, it could not be compacted well. Best and lowest priced "fix" would be to get a self driven sheepsfoot in there and compact it well while the clay has moisture....it will need to be drained and allowed to dry some to get excess moisture out...
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/08/18 01:03 PM

Thanks Rex,to do something like that I might have to wait for the spring rains to be over so it can dry up enough.Do you know how steep of a grade the self driven sheepsfoot can run on or at least go up and down?I would hate to get one down in the bottom of the pond and get it stuck in the mud?lol!This sure takes the fun out of a new pond.lol!
Posted by: John Fitzgerald

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/08/18 06:08 PM

Mine is now in the third year and still leaking due to either roots left in the dam or poor compaction. I have been told that a sheepsfoot roller won't do any good on a finished dam. I understand it has to be compacted in small lifts. Would a vibratory sheepsfoot be better on a finished dam? If the vibrations would go deep enough, then the dam could be made to settle.
Posted by: RAH

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/08/18 07:05 PM

If my pond, I would have a properly constructed dam constructed behind the existing dam built. This from someone who has made every mistake possible. I finally built my own pond last year. I am bewildered that pond builders are so rare. Clearly quality does not build a business in this area.
Posted by: canyoncreek

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/08/18 07:45 PM

I second that RAH. It boggles my mind that dirt movers snap up contracts to build ponds left and right and maybe out of 50 projects 1 doesn't leak and there doesn't seem to be any recourse for the home owner and no means to slow down the dirt mover from doing it again. There doesn't seem to be any better business bureau or incentive to do quality work to get additional business down the road in the pond building trade.

I've suggested that this forum should maintain a list of builders who will do it right the first time or if not will hold to their word that they will return until the problem is fixed. They advantage to the pond builder is that they will have guaranteed advertising, for free, that is nationwide (even worldwide). The promise to the PB forum owners is that for once we have happy construction companies AND happy customers and a system that works together in a positive way. The quality control simply comes from the feedback from the PB users and the pondbuilder's clients that is openly shared on this forum without quid pro quo (we have to say good things about them because they paid for advertising on the forum).

It should be very simple to create such a list and it would not have to be groomed by the mods. Just simply let people tell their experiences about the company and when there is a negative experience posted, see how well the company fixes it. The list initially will be extremely short, maybe less than 10 companies that could withstand the simple test of letting their customers vote by simply sharing their stories.

As time went by other companies will catch on that if you take care of the customers you can join a very select company of pondbuilders who are ethical, and it didn't cost them a dime of advertising, just do it properly or do it over till it is right.

Recall the same thing process worked well when a mislabeled batch of feed went out this past year. The feedback of the end user and the help of the forum brought a solution and everyone benefits in the process.

just my $.02
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/08/18 08:51 PM

Thanks guys!I think or at least thought Rex was talking about the bottom of my pond needing compacted.My pond builder says that the problem has to be in the bottom,maybe a gravel seem opened up do to the drought.He says he knows the dam is packed good and holding.I can't find any water behind the dam.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/09/18 02:28 PM

Anyone ever heard of or used Aquablock Pondseal?
Posted by: SetterGuy

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/10/18 10:50 AM

I have not heard of it. Pond leaks are always going to be a mystery. I always have a wet spot behind my dam. It sits right in the original ditch bottom. It never has any current, and has weird orange algae growing in it. It does collect water from the back of the dam and hillsides when it rains, so it's very hard to tell if it's from the leak.
As I mentioned earlier, after soilfloc, my leak slowed to 1/4" a day. I'll live with that, as evaporation must be al least half that.
Maybe wait until it full, maybe even a second time full. Try the soilfloc after the second fill, unless the leak is just crazy fast, as in inches per day.
I think I've also had some self sealing from sediment settling on the bottom. This winter I had four inches of ice for two months. I watched it to see if the water below the ice would drop, it didn't seem like it was..
Don't lose hope, if you don't see water running out the behind the dam somewhere, maybe it'll slow down.
Posted by: Rainman

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/10/18 11:47 AM

Originally Posted By: John Fitzgerald
Mine is now in the third year and still leaking due to either roots left in the dam or poor compaction. I have been told that a sheepsfoot roller won't do any good on a finished dam. I understand it has to be compacted in small lifts. Would a vibratory sheepsfoot be better on a finished dam? If the vibrations would go deep enough, then the dam could be made to settle.


If clay content, depth and the elastic quality ot he clay are good, a 36000 pound vibratory sheepsfoot can compact as much as 3 feet deep. To "properly construct an original dam and pond bottom, it should be done in 6" lifts...but we are now talking repair, not an original build. Sealing the entire pool area, and compacting it well with good clay will work. It is also the most cost effective way unless you know exactly where a leak is...
Posted by: Rainman

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/10/18 11:50 AM

Originally Posted By: Bobbss
Thanks guys!I think or at least thought Rex was talking about the bottom of my pond needing compacted.My pond builder says that the problem has to be in the bottom,maybe a gravel seem opened up do to the drought.He says he knows the dam is packed good and holding.I can't find any water behind the dam.


I mean the entire pond's pool area. if the dam WAS properly constructed and compacted, and the leak is in the bottom, then the core of the dam was not deep enough to block off water flow upstream. A LOT of ponds leak out the sides and go around the dam because again, the core was never built into the sides to block lateral flow. Leaking ponds can be a nightmare!
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/10/18 11:39 PM

Thanks Guys!I knew it would probably be a waist of time and money,but I decided to go ahead and do what my pond builder said.I figured what do I have to loose other than a few hundred bucks and some hard work,and hard work it has been so far.lol!I pumped it down today and started raking the leaves which turned out to have a lot of muck mixed in with the leaves.I couldn't believe how much muck was in the bottom already,in some areas it was trying to come over my 18" rubber boots.I didn't find a lot but in one area,probably just a little below the lowest water line that it's held fairly steady,there was some water seeping back in with a few tiny little jets of water just strong enough to make the water gurgle up a little.I don't know if that area is my problem and I don't know if it will help,but I plan to dig it out a little and pack that area with bentonite the best I can.
I've been wanting more rain and now they are calling for rain and snow here tomorrow,and now I'm hoping it don't so I can work on it.lol!
Posted by: SetterGuy

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/11/18 10:16 AM

3-5" of snow, but should be gone soon as tomorrow is close to 50*. Then the next rain is Friday. Hope you get it done. Good luck.
Posted by: John Fitzgerald

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/11/18 12:37 PM

No precip here. Big thunderstorms passed about 35 miles south of here late yesterday. We have been missed by a lot of rains. I fear another drought coming.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/11/18 02:29 PM

Thanks Jeff!I got up early this morning and finished raking before the snow got here.I plan to pick up the Bentonite after work tomorrow and will work on it after work this week until I get it done.As hard of work as this was, I don't see me doing something like this again if it doesn't hold.lol!
Posted by: John Fitzgerald

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/11/18 04:11 PM

Bob, you will need to mix that Bentonite with the clay, and compact it in at least two feet deep on the bottom of your pond, to be fairly sure of it working. I tried lots of bentonite poured on the banks at the waterline and on the dam below the waterline, and it did not work for me. I have a leak from the full pool level, extending to about 30" below, and haven't been able to fix it. I am thinking of either a vibratory roller or a cutoff trench in the dam.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/11/18 07:38 PM

John,the pond has been holding 1 1/2'-2' of water pretty good so I think the leak is 2' or so off the bottom.
Posted by: John Fitzgerald

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/11/18 07:53 PM

Bob, that's a deep pond too, so the leak has lots of pressure on it, and will need a thick seal.
Posted by: Rainman

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/11/18 10:01 PM

Just pouring bentonite into water will result in a sloppy, soupy mess of super slippery silt-like goo on the bottom, and will never seal. Bentonite has to be tilled into the soil at the proper rate, not too much and not too little. Then it has to be moistened and VERY tightly compacted in order to seal. And, if the bentonite dries out aeven a little too much, huge cracks form as the bentonite contracts, opening up huge holes for after to leak out of.
Posted by: Rainman

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/11/18 10:02 PM

Oh...and, Bentonite is a colloidal clay...the smallest fines will often keep the pond perpetually muddy.
Posted by: John Fitzgerald

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/11/18 10:42 PM

Originally Posted By: Rainman
Oh...and, Bentonite is a colloidal clay...the smallest fines will often keep the pond perpetually muddy.


I put in Bentonite in combination with Soilfloc in 2016, and it all sank to the bottom fairly quickly, wasn't muddy for more than a few minutes. Last winter my pond had 10 foot visibility for a few days. The Soilfloc/Bentonite combo did not help with the leak long term. In fact, it seems slightly worse than it was in 2016.
Posted by: Rainman

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/13/18 12:12 PM

Originally Posted By: John Fitzgerald
Originally Posted By: Rainman
Oh...and, Bentonite is a colloidal clay...the smallest fines will often keep the pond perpetually muddy.


I put in Bentonite in combination with Soilfloc in 2016, and it all sank to the bottom fairly quickly, wasn't muddy for more than a few minutes. Last winter my pond had 10 foot visibility for a few days. The Soilfloc/Bentonite combo did not help with the leak long term. In fact, it seems slightly worse than it was in 2016.


Maybe there are other sources or types of Bentonite, or the water chemistry may play a part in the colloids, but I have been called to add Alum on over 20 ponds that used Bentonite
Posted by: keifer

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/13/18 03:52 PM

John and Rainman:
As the owner/builder of a small-leaky pond, I appreciate your knowledge and experience with both soil floc and bentonite. While I'm hoping for a magic bullet remedy, I'm beginning to realize no one has found it yet.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/13/18 05:18 PM

Rex and John,I heard you guys loud and clear!But,my pond build seemed convinced that it would help.I figured it would be hard for me to complain about his work if I didn't try what he was saying.lol!So, for good or bad,whether or not a total waste of time and money, I put a half a pallet of bentonite down today.I walked around and put deep foot prints in the mud before putting the bentonite down then used a shovel to chop and mix things up the best I could.I tried to tamp things down with a 10" tamp but it was to muddy.If things dry out some before the next rain I'll try again.I think my pond builder is hoping it will slow things down and hold water longer so cracks from the drought will have more of a chance to close,and the bentonite might help fill in cracks.
I've heard of people having leaky ponds,then after letting livestock in the area,the pond would stop leaking from the livestock packing things down.Whether or not that is true,I don't know,but maybe me tromping around in the mud will help.lol!
At least now I can say I tried.lol!
Posted by: John Fitzgerald

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/13/18 07:46 PM

Rex,
I don't know what it is with the water chemistry, but my older pond that was renovated in August 2015 will not stay muddy for very long even if you stir it up, sprinkle Bentonite in, or after a heavy rain. After a big flood, it's cleared up in two days. Dye doesn't last long either. I wonder what causes it to clear so fast? I wish it would stay a little muddy to combat the bad FA problem.
Posted by: Rainman

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/14/18 12:20 AM

Originally Posted By: Bobbss
Rex and John,I heard you guys loud and clear!But,my pond build seemed convinced that it would help.I figured it would be hard for me to complain about his work if I didn't try what he was saying.lol!So, for good or bad,whether or not a total waste of time and money, I put a half a pallet of bentonite down today.I walked around and put deep foot prints in the mud before putting the bentonite down then used a shovel to chop and mix things up the best I could.I tried to tamp things down with a 10" tamp but it was to muddy.If things dry out some before the next rain I'll try again.I think my pond builder is hoping it will slow things down and hold water longer so cracks from the drought will have more of a chance to close,and the bentonite might help fill in cracks.
I've heard of people having leaky ponds,then after letting livestock in the area,the pond would stop leaking from the livestock packing things down.Whether or not that is true,I don't know,but maybe me tromping around in the mud will help.lol!
At least now I can say I tried.lol!


Bob, your pond builder was convinced it wouldn't leak...sorry, but he is wrong.
Posted by: Rainman

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/14/18 12:23 AM

Originally Posted By: Bobbss
Rex and John,I heard you guys loud and clear!But,my pond build seemed convinced that it would help.I figured it would be hard for me to complain about his work if I didn't try what he was saying.lol!So, for good or bad,whether or not a total waste of time and money, I put a half a pallet of bentonite down today.I walked around and put deep foot prints in the mud before putting the bentonite down then used a shovel to chop and mix things up the best I could.I tried to tamp things down with a 10" tamp but it was to muddy.If things dry out some before the next rain I'll try again.I think my pond builder is hoping it will slow things down and hold water longer so cracks from the drought will have more of a chance to close,and the bentonite might help fill in cracks.
I've heard of people having leaky ponds,then after letting livestock in the area,the pond would stop leaking from the livestock packing things down.Whether or not that is true,I don't know,but maybe me tromping around in the mud will help.lol!
At least now I can say I tried.lol!


Penning in hoofed animals in an area is where the name came from for a "Sheep's Foot Roller"
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/14/18 10:31 PM

Originally Posted By: Rainman
Originally Posted By: Bobbss
Rex and John,I heard you guys loud and clear!But,my pond build seemed convinced that it would help.I figured it would be hard for me to complain about his work if I didn't try what he was saying.lol!So, for good or bad,whether or not a total waste of time and money, I put a half a pallet of bentonite down today.I walked around and put deep foot prints in the mud before putting the bentonite down then used a shovel to chop and mix things up the best I could.I tried to tamp things down with a 10" tamp but it was to muddy.If things dry out some before the next rain I'll try again.I think my pond builder is hoping it will slow things down and hold water longer so cracks from the drought will have more of a chance to close,and the bentonite might help fill in cracks.
I've heard of people having leaky ponds,then after letting livestock in the area,the pond would stop leaking from the livestock packing things down.Whether or not that is true,I don't know,but maybe me tromping around in the mud will help.lol!
At least now I can say I tried.lol!


Penning in hoofed animals in an area is where the name came from for a "Sheep's Foot Roller"
It is funny how some things and old sayings got their names and got started.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/14/18 11:05 PM

Originally Posted By: Rainman
Originally Posted By: Bobbss
Thanks guys!I think or at least thought Rex was talking about the bottom of my pond needing compacted.My pond builder says that the problem has to be in the bottom,maybe a gravel seem opened up do to the drought.He says he knows the dam is packed good and holding.I can't find any water behind the dam.


I mean the entire pond's pool area. if the dam WAS properly constructed and compacted, and the leak is in the bottom, then the core of the dam was not deep enough to block off water flow upstream. A LOT of ponds leak out the sides and go around the dam because again, the core was never built into the sides to block lateral flow. Leaking ponds can be a nightmare!
I keep reading back over this.Rex,are you saying that if a core is deep enough and goes far enough into the sides it can still hold water after everything is fully saturated in between the leak and core?
Posted by: Rainman

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/15/18 11:02 AM

Originally Posted By: Bobbss
Originally Posted By: Rainman
Originally Posted By: Bobbss
Thanks guys!I think or at least thought Rex was talking about the bottom of my pond needing compacted.My pond builder says that the problem has to be in the bottom,maybe a gravel seem opened up do to the drought.He says he knows the dam is packed good and holding.I can't find any water behind the dam.


I mean the entire pond's pool area. if the dam WAS properly constructed and compacted, and the leak is in the bottom, then the core of the dam was not deep enough to block off water flow upstream. A LOT of ponds leak out the sides and go around the dam because again, the core was never built into the sides to block lateral flow. Leaking ponds can be a nightmare!
I keep reading back over this.Rex,are you saying that if a core is deep enough and goes far enough into the sides it can still hold water after everything is fully saturated in between the leak and core?


Yes, the purpose of a well compacted core is to block any flow of water upstream of the core....the water can spread out laterally to saturate soils, but is unable to drain beyond or below the core. This is why a pond should be dug beyond the final grades, then brought back to grades creating a well compacted clay blanket. If you are in good clay, and stop without refilling, how could you know that "good clay" is not only a quarter inch thick on top of sand or gravel....?
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/15/18 01:25 PM

Thanks Rex!That's the way I was thinking it worked but the way I was reading some of the post on here I started taking it as the bowl had to hold all the water or it would leak no matter what.
I don't know how much water soil will hold?I know I read somewhere, someone said the ground around a pond can hold as much water as the pond it's self.Considering we've been in a bad drought every since it was built,I don't know if I've lost enough water to saturate all the soil in front of the core.
When we dug the test holes we hit the best clay at around 2.5' and we went down to 8' and the clay was still good but it started getting harder packed.He said that was the depth that he wanted to cut the core trench, and he claims he stuck with that plan.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/18/18 11:52 AM

I figure there isn't much more I can do but wait for enough rain that there is no doubt what is going on.I thought we was going to get a good rain on Friday but it turned into another drought rain.It broke up as it got near me and we only got less than a .10".They say tomorrow we may get up to 1.5" but I won't hold my breath.lol!
I did start a little test with my soil to see how much water it can hold, just for fun.I'm doing it at my work so I won't finish with it until tomorrow but it was holding well over 50% of it's own weight of water so far.That is a lot of water!
Posted by: John Fitzgerald

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/18/18 12:18 PM

We have not had any rain here since the big one that broke the drought the last few days of February. For nearly three years now, we have had drought broken by floods, drought again, flood again. Never consistent rainfall. My leaker is now down about 17 inches from its high mark.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/18/18 08:06 PM

John are you getting rain down your way now?The radar I just looked at showed some rain down that way.
Posted by: John Fitzgerald

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/18/18 08:35 PM

We received just over 1/10 of an inch. Rain has moved off to the NE now. No more chances for several days.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/18/18 11:24 PM

Last night they was saying 1 1/2" for tomorrow around here and now they've changed it to around 1/2".I hate to see what it is dropped to by morning.lol!
Posted by: snrub

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/18/18 11:57 PM

Had a nice shower here in SE Ks but I do not know how much. Should have put the rain gauge out today. According to the radar summary (which can be way off) it is within the half inch range. My guess is that is close to right.

We have another chance just before sun up. We need it here for corn planting. Getting a bit on the dry side. An inch would be perfect for corn planting. Two to three inches would put the ponds back full. Down about 6" right now.
Posted by: SetterGuy

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/19/18 09:23 AM

Still saying 1" for St Louis area. Of course, 1/4" up by our pond.
Our pond has been lower in the past than it is right now, so we've had worse droughts.
Bob, are you ready for some rain? Looks like rain again Friday, then on and off for a week.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/19/18 10:59 AM

Jeff, I'm about as ready as I'm going to get for now.lol!I've done what I can for now, even if it was a waist of time, at least I tried.lol!I need enough rain that it leaves no doubt whats going on.So the more, the better.
I'm glad you heard that we should still get a 1" around hear. Channel 2 last night showed .6X" on their map I thought, but I could be wrong and I know they could be.lol!
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/19/18 02:59 PM

I think my soil testing to see how much water it could hold is done.I did two test,the top soil held about 53% of it's own weight and the better clay held about 74%.I know my test isn't the same as the real world but I found it interesting to get some idea how much water it could hold.It holds more than I thought it would.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/19/18 09:02 PM

I think the rain is pretty much over for me for the day.I ended up with about 1.15" at my house,not to bad.I had something going on this evening so I had to go check on the pond earlier than I wanted to.I probably only got about another .08" or so after I checked on, but the water was still running in pretty good.I will check it in the morning but I think I'll end up with about a foot of water added.
Posted by: John Fitzgerald

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/19/18 09:40 PM

Bob,
Leaking ponds are so frustrating! If my efforts to stop the leak this year do not work, I am inclined to have it filled back in and go into hay field. Maybe it's once a leaker, always a leaker?
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/19/18 11:11 PM

John, I hope it don't come to that!
Posted by: SetterGuy

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/20/18 07:24 AM

Bob, I'll bet your pond holds water alright. It may evolve into a slow leak like mine has done. It's not ideal, but I can live with it. Mine is 15' deep, so even if I lose 4' of water, I think I've still got enough there to keep the fish alive. It's not as nice to look at as it is when it's full, but I'm still happy it's there. Maybe it will seal itself a little better over time. I'm still thinking you are early in the game. Don't lose hope.
Jeff
Posted by: snrub

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/20/18 11:19 AM

My old refurbished pond was likely originally built some time before I was born (64 years ago soon). I remember as a teenager my dad contracting a neighbor that had a D7 to break the dam and clean it out. That pond always had a seep on the back side of the dam. I know because there was a spot probably ten feet in diameter that we did not mow with the bush hog unless it was the driest of times or the mowing tractor would get stuck. Don't ask me how I know. It was a cattle watering pond although there were many days it had secondary use as fishing and swimming.

Point is that pond always had a leak or at least a seep. According to my NRCS guy lots and lots of farm cattle watering ponds have those seeps on the back side of the dam. He gave us plans for a core trench to help prevent that when we built our main pond. The seep was never enough to seriously detract from the ponds main use.

When I rebuilt it a few years ago I completely dug down the face side of the dam and added probably three or four times the material on the back side of the dam to both try and stop the seep and also make the slope safe for mowing. It had always been too steep to mow the back slope. I also dug down as deep with the dozer as I could where the seep had been before adding the additional dam material over it and compacting. I either 1. stopped the seep (because it is no longer wet there) or 2. pushed the leak lower down the bank where it seeps into a seasonal creek right behind the pond. But at any rate, either fixed or transferred to a new area, it is no longer wet on the back side of the dam.

Point is ponds can have small leaks or seeps and they can still work for many years. When the leak is too big to keep the pond at proper levels or the leak is such that it leaks enough to cause dam erosion and eventual failure then the leak is a big problem.

As long as the water is not flowing enough to cause erosion in the leak area, there is hope that sediment will eventually fill the pores enough that the leak will be only a minor seep. If the leak is fast enough to erode soil, it likely will only get worse.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/20/18 01:10 PM

Thanks Jeff and John!I haven't given up all hope yet and will always have some.lol!I don't really have hope that the bentonite will help, but after seeing how much water my soil will hold, I have a fair amount of hope that the dam will hold and I just haven't got enough water yet to saturate everything in front of the dam.I have seen no signs of water getting past the dam yet.Until I do,I feel like I should have a fair chance that it will hold.
I need to get enough rain to see if it's going to hold, or enough to figure out where it's leaking if it's not going to hold.It looks like we may have a good chance for some rain coming up in a few days, so maybe by this time next week I'll know more.
Jeff, I think I've said this before but I'll be more than happy if my pond turns out as good as yours!If it will hold well enough to keep fish alive, it's better than no pond!
Posted by: John Fitzgerald

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/20/18 01:22 PM

Due to having ponds and watching rainfall closely for the past three years or so, I am going to become an official rainfall reporter for the NWS.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/21/18 12:45 PM

Well if the bentonite won't help the way I used it, maybe things are starting to get saturated.I was loosing about 3" every 24 hours, and I only loss about 3/4" or less in the last 24" hours.I know that's not great but it seems to be a step in the right direction.There isn't a lot of water in it right now but it has a few more inches in it than when I pumped it down to work on it and it was still loosing water when I pumped it out.If after I get a few more feet of water in it, and it still holds this well, I'll start feeling a lot better about my chances of it holding ok in the long run.
Posted by: John Fitzgerald

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/21/18 12:53 PM

My newest pond built 12/16 leaked last spring, about 1/4 to 1/2 inch a day. It was low all fall and winter, but filled again over three weeks ago. It doesn't seem to be leaking at all now, after a year of settling and haying equipment driving on the dam.
Posted by: snrub

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/21/18 01:29 PM

Great news for both of you.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/21/18 01:33 PM

John, I hope mine does that good.I always figured it would leak a little at first and slowly get better.As deep as my pond is,if it didn't loose more than a 1/2" a day,it might look like crap but I could go a long time without rain and not have to worry to much about fish dying.
Posted by: John Fitzgerald

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/21/18 01:38 PM

Yes. My first pond is 11 feet deep when full, but leaks down to about 8-8.5 feet deep and stops. It looks really bad then with exposed structure, but is not that dangerous for the fish.
Posted by: SetterGuy

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/21/18 01:42 PM

Good news all around! Now, a little more rain would be icing on the cake. lol
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/21/18 02:44 PM

Thanks Jeff,I don't want to get my hopes up to high yet but I feel better about things than I did.We have a lot of chances for rain in the forecast so hopefully will get some out of all of it.lol!
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/23/18 11:28 AM

Jeff, I was watching channel 2 news this morning and they say the rain should be starting later today and it looks like you should be getting even more up at your pond!
At my pond there is still no change,still dropping at the same new slower rate,it may be slowing down a little more but I can't say for sure.
Posted by: teehjaeh57

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/23/18 01:21 PM

Bobbss if you suspect a leak feel free to ping me - my time is free to all PondBoss family and I've worked on dozens of leaking pond projects the past 3 years. Happy to chat anytime!
Posted by: SetterGuy

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/23/18 01:47 PM

Originally Posted By: Bobbss
Jeff, I was watching channel 2 news this morning and they say the rain should be starting later today and it looks like you should be getting even more up at your pond!
At my pond there is still no change,still dropping at the same new slower rate,it may be slowing down a little more but I can't say for sure.


I'm hoping. Everything seems fine as far as fish are concerned, but it sure looks a lot better when full.
FYI, I used some of TJs soilfloc (see post above) I believe it has helped to slo down my leak. I wish someone made something for rain production. wink (I know,, a well, but that's way out of budget limits!)
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/23/18 03:18 PM

Thanks TJ!I'm hoping things are getting better,at least they seem to be.I'm hoping my biggest problem was the drought, and that things are starting to saturate.I hope to get enough rain soon, so I can tell better.

Jeff,if I ever get a major increase in my budget, a well would be at the top of my list.lol!
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/24/18 11:34 PM

I got .90" of rain last night that gave me right at 11" more in the pond.They just said that rain is coming back in on Monday morning and that we should get around 2.78" before it stops on Wednesday!
Posted by: SetterGuy

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/25/18 08:50 AM

Good news Bob. I think we got .5" up at our place. So far none of the rains have had any runoff, so pond basically gains .5". More coming though, so I'm hopeful. I was with my son yesterday four wheeling down near Farmington. We were supposed to get rain the whole day. We ended up with just a couple of showers in the afternoon. No telling how much we will end up getting up north. It changes hourly. It does look like the farmers will get enough to put some moisture back in the soil though.

Hope your water level is holding.
Posted by: John Fitzgerald

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/25/18 10:39 AM

No rain at all here. Only 0.2 inches so far this month.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/25/18 08:39 PM

Thanks Jeff,were you riding at St. Joe? I almost lost my leg riding there.
When I checked the pond yesterday,I think it was over 6 hours after the heavy rain had stopped,not that I really seen or looked, but there was probably still a small amount trickling in.When I checked it today (about 26 hours later) it was still right at the same level.These last 2 rains haven't been big enough to get run off from above the sediment pond, the heavy woods soaked it all up.As wet as things are now, and as much rain as they say we might get over the next few days, I'm thinking I should get some really good run off.If we get what they say,I think I should see 3'-4'.
Posted by: SetterGuy

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/26/18 08:59 AM

Bob, we were at a place called Washita. Or, that's what it used to be called. It's been bought by a paramilitary training company. They have all kinds of firearm training there now. 1,000 yard shooting lanes. Shooting into cars, etc.. I understand it's expensive..
It used to be a big Offroad riding place. Lots of trails, marked like ski slopes, green, blue, and red (extreme). My son is an avid 4 wheeler/rock crawler.
Looks like more rain today and tomorrow up at our pond. Hoping for more than a 1/4" of gentle rain this time.. Ha!
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/26/18 10:54 AM

Jeff,I've been to Washita also.There are some pretty rough trails there.

Last night on channel 2 they said we could see 4"-6" around here today and tomorrow and there is a chance of rain almost every day for the next 7 days.Sounds like we should get a lot in the next week.I hope you get a lot up north as well.

I checked on my pond this morning and it is still dropping about the same.I'm guessing that if my biggest problem was it needed to saturate, it will still soak up a lot as it fills.
Posted by: SetterGuy

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/26/18 11:29 AM

We did all extreme trails. Three of the seven jeeps had to be towed out.

Hey where are you getting your estimated rainfall info? Weather dot com says I may get an inch, but that's all it will predict. If you are seeing 4-6" I'd rather see that! Haha! I'm sure our place won't get that much, but it would be great to dream about it. 4-6" if it comes down hard, can add a lot of water pretty quickly.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/26/18 12:15 PM

Jeff, that was on channel 2 last night. The 4"-6" was for St. Louis, and I think they was showing less up north but the radar on my phone shows a lot of rain up that way right now,more than down here.
Posted by: SetterGuy

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/26/18 10:45 PM

Climate dot com says I've received 2" in the last 24 hrs. With more coming. It does look like it's going to stay on the wet side until mid April. Our drought is definitely over. It'll get the pond back close to full, hopefully. Looking forward to some pics of your pond full Bob.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/26/18 11:30 PM

Jeff, every time I looked at the radar today it looked like a lot of rain up north.Glad to hear your getting some good rain at your pond!Most of the rain stayed a little north of me so I didn't get as much as I thought I'd get today, I only got about .37".They are still saying I could see another 2"-4" tomorrow.I hope to be taking some pictures of it full soon,that's for sure!
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/27/18 12:13 PM

I got about another 1.33" of rain over night and it gave me another 28" in the pond. It was still rolling in pretty good too and the rain had been stopped for at least 1 1/2 hours. It started raining again as I was leaving and has been raining a little every since. Radar shows that the bigger rain is just now starting to come in. They show a path of rain stretching all the way into Texas.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/27/18 12:34 PM

Just my luck, so far radar shows the heaviest rain staying just to the south of me, yesterday it was to the north of me. Lol!
Posted by: John Fitzgerald

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/27/18 04:31 PM

Bob,
I noticed your rain readings are in nearest 1/100 of an inch. Do you have a 4" gauge with the small cylinder in the center (official reporting gauge)? I just got started last week reporting with one of those. My station is AR-36-WS at www.cocorahs.org.

My newest pond is running over again, and the old leaker gained about 10 inches so far.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/27/18 08:57 PM

John,I just have some little cheap thing.I think it is 6" and I think the smallest reading it has is tenths, I just guess at the rest.lol!I will take a look at your link!

I didn't get as much today as I thought I would.We had a lite rain all day but I only got about .60" so far and it looks like the rain is moving farther south.I did get another 14" in the pond and still had water rolling in.It's getting bigger around and starting to take a lot more water to raise it another inch.
Posted by: John Fitzgerald

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/27/18 09:23 PM

Bob, my rainfall report will go in around 7:15-7:30 in the morning, and will include all rain from 7:00 AM this morning until 7:00 AM tomorrow morning. I suspect it's going to be impressive.

Edit: Since 7:00 AM yesterday=2.8", three day total=3.77".
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/28/18 11:05 AM

Wow John,I wish I would of got that much.My rain gauge is a 5".I got another .10 over night for a total of 2.4 since Monday.That gave me about 4' in the pond.With what I got last week,that makes about 6', not counting the 18" or so of muck.
Posted by: John Fitzgerald

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/28/18 03:55 PM

The rain here added 16-1/4 inches to the old, seeping pond, still almost 4" from overflow, and put the new pond and forage pond back over the overflows.
Posted by: SetterGuy

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/29/18 01:51 PM

Still waiting on more rain. Got that 2" back on the 26th. Hoping for some April showers..
Posted by: John Fitzgerald

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/29/18 02:59 PM

I logged in 1.02" this morning, with a little more since. All my ponds spilling over this morning, including old seeper.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/29/18 08:09 PM

John, I had about the same a little while ago and was still getting a few sprinkles. Pond is getting bigger,so I only gained about 4".Starting to take a lot of water to gain an inch.
Posted by: SetterGuy

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/29/18 09:04 PM

How about a picture Bob? Be nice to see the changes. It's never been this full, corrrect?
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/29/18 10:18 PM

Jeff,here is a few pictures from today.It was still raining when I took these so I hope it will be a little higher in the morning.This is the highest it's been,but still has about 10' to go.
Posted by: SetterGuy

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/30/18 07:02 AM

Looking good Bob. Got the FHM in yet? Let them start multiplying. wink
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/30/18 11:25 AM

Thanks Jeff!No FHM in it yet.After the way it was dropping at first,I want to give it a little while to make sure it don't leak to bad.If it doesn't drop to much per day I will go a head and put some in.

I went over and checked it this morning and was surprised that it came up another 6.5".It still had a nice little trickle coming in from above.The nice thing about the water that comes from above from the sediment pond,is that it is pretty clear.You can see a clear stream of water about 3' or so long and 1' or so wide going in and mixing with the muddy water.
Posted by: John Fitzgerald

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/30/18 12:12 PM

Bob, don't be too quick to wish for clear water. I obsessed over being clear for a couple of years, and had huge visibility last year, followed by a horrible outbreak of FA. I probably raked out well over 1,000 pounds of FA last year from a 1/4 acre pond. I would rather have muddy water than a lot of FA. With muddy water, that otter probably would not have eaten all my CC either.

BTW, our total rainfall for the past five days was 5 inches exactly, and 5.17 for the month so far.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/30/18 03:54 PM

John,I only got about 3.5 for this week, but got about 5.5 over the last 2 weeks.The pond is still plenty muddy right now.I know there is draw backs to having clear water,but I don't know what they all are yet.The main one I knew of was the small fish get eaten faster.I must say I do like the looks of clean clear water,and would like it as clear as I can get it and not cause problems.
Posted by: John Fitzgerald

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/30/18 05:00 PM

Bob,
Any ponds around here that are crystal clear are completely over run by FA by late August, and are almost totally unfishable. The muddier ones don't get FA, but still seem to produce enough fish. I don't mean chocolate milk muddy, but about a foot visibility.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 04/03/18 11:58 AM

John, I all I can say right now is that I hope some day that FA is all I have to worry about. Lol! I was out of town for the weekend and when I checked the pond it had dropped a little over 3".It isn't dropping as fast as it was the first time it came up, but it is still dropping to fast. It is still about 2.5' higher than the first time it came up and dropping about half as fast. Which is about about 1.5"or a little more per day.
Posted by: John Fitzgerald

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 04/03/18 04:19 PM

Bob,
The last pond I had built in Dec 2016 dropped and seeped like that the whole first spring. After a summer of settling and heavy haying equipment being driven along and on the back of the dam, The seep has slowed to something I can live with, on the order of 1/8 inch per day, and some of that may be evaporation. YYMV; that didn't happen with my first pond, which was a renovation, lacking a core in the old (60+ yrs) part of the dam.
Posted by: SetterGuy

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 04/03/18 07:38 PM

Bob,
Hoping your leak slows down. Hoping the rain keeps coming.
I ended up finding 3 5/8Ē in my rain gauge today. Pond came up 3í! So, the rain must have had a very high percent runoff. I donít usually get that much bump from 3Ē of rain.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 04/03/18 08:21 PM

Thanks John and Jeff!I haven't given up hope yet.lol!

Jeff,glad to hear you got some good rain!
Posted by: SetterGuy

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 04/14/18 08:31 AM

Bob, looks like we received over an inch of rain here yesterday in St Louis. Of course, only .2Ē up at our pond, but Iím hoping you got some good runoff. Howís the water holding?
Posted by: John Fitzgerald

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 04/14/18 09:48 AM

We had 0.92" here. Less than most of our state. One pond (leaker) is down 9-1/2 inches, the other one about 1-1/4".
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 04/14/18 12:51 PM

Thanks Jeff, it's still dropping to fast. Not as fast as it did the first time it came up but not a lot better. I got about 1.3" of rain last night which gained me about 6" in the pond. I'm thinking about buying a small semi trash pump so I can pump water from my old pond, but I would need about 400' of hose and I would have to pump it about 50' high to get it over the hill in between the 2 ponds. The old pond isn't very big but has more run off and if I could pump while we're getting some rain, then I could probably pump a lot of water.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 04/19/18 08:33 PM

Anyone know if a normal 2" semi-trash pump will pump 400' and over a 40'-50' hill?I'm thinking since it would also be going down hill on the other side of the hill,that the hill wouldn't matter as much?Anyone having good luck with any brands, models?
Posted by: John Fitzgerald

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 04/19/18 09:41 PM

Bob,
I had a Harbor Freight 2" pump that I put over 200 hours on and it was still going strong. The only problem with it was that the engine was oversized for the pump so it used too much gas. Sold that one and bought a 2" Honda that uses about half the gas and pumps a little more water per hour.

Yes, it will pump 400 feet. The volume will depend on TOTAL lift plus distance. If you are pumping 50 feet high over a hill, then the pipe goes downhill 25 feet, then the total lift is 25 feet.

I am getting about 3,800 GPH with a total lift of 16 feet and 490 feet of pipe. The slicker the pipe, the more volume you will get. I have some poly pipe with UHMW liner. It's very slick inside.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 04/19/18 10:50 PM

Thanks John!It would be almost the same down hill as up hill.I would probably just use PVC hose.
Posted by: Rainman

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 04/20/18 05:53 AM

Using 3 inch discharge and intake will increase flow over a long distance...even 4" sewer and drain PVC is really cheap...
Posted by: John Fitzgerald

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 04/20/18 10:01 AM

I thought of larger pipe for mine too, but the 2" pipe is heavy and stiff enough. Anything larger is impossibly stiff and expensive, at least for me. Hopefully, pumping will eventually be only a very occasional thing for both Bob and I.
Posted by: SetterGuy

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 04/20/18 10:06 AM

I have no place to pump from, not going to put in, or run a well. Luckily the leak continues to slow, because Iím sure not getting any rain..
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 04/20/18 11:06 AM

Thanks Guys!I sure haven't seen as much rain this Spring as I thought I would so far.
I don't want to spend to much on this, if I do it, since I can only get so much water out of the old pond.I also can't set up anything to permanent right now because the straight line from pond to pond is where we want to build at.There is also a 911 tower on the back of my property (they pay rent) so I can't block my road.It was there when we bought the property and is a big pain in my azz!
John,do you mind saying what you spent on your set up,and what brand you got?
Posted by: John Fitzgerald

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 04/21/18 04:00 PM

Looks like Snrub may be in for a good rain!
Posted by: John Fitzgerald

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 04/21/18 04:21 PM

Originally Posted By: Bobbss

John,do you mind saying what you spent on your set up,and what brand you got?


I had first a Harbor Freight 2" water pump. It was relatively cheap and worked great. I put over 200 hours on it in less than two years.
Around $200 with coupon.

After I decided it was going to be a long term thing, I sold the HF on CL and bought a Honda pump. The Honda WB20XT3 model pumps about 7% more water than the HF and uses about half the gas, and is somewhat quieter. Around $375.

The two inch poly pipe, I got from the scrap pile at the local electric cooperative. They use it for conduit for buried HV cable. They don't like to splice it, so when it gets too short for a run, it becomes scrap. I only had to haul it away (not easy, it's stiff and springy) and buy some external 2" PVC slip splices so to not reduce the diameter, a ball valve, strainer, and short length of 2" sch 40 PVC. Probably spent $40.

The pipe is so slick it will back out of the compression splices unless it is banded together with clamps and strapping. Bob, if you are interested, I can send you some pictures, instructions, etc.

I have become proficient at laying everything out, pumping, and putting it all away in proper order.

I am pumping about 490 feet with a total lift of about 16 feet, get about 3,800-4,000 gallons per hour.

Note: if you are starting from scratch, you will need to also buy 15-20 feet of suction hose (got mine much cheaper online). It's about $4/ft at TSC.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 04/21/18 05:00 PM

Thanks John!I will probably have to buy some of the cheap flat hose,but if you get time it would be great to see some pictures.
Posted by: John Fitzgerald

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 04/21/18 06:02 PM

Bob, Unless you can find a great deal, 350 feet of flat hose will cost nearly as much as the pump. The suction hose has to be fairly rigid. Flat hose won't work on the suction end.

You could check with an electric utility that puts in a lot of underground as in subdivisions. They don't like to splice any poly pipe shorter than about 150 feet, and it ends up as scrap to be dumped or recycled. A friend of mine got some 4 inch to do some irrigation, but he said it was so stiff he had to bury it to hold it from re rolling. The 2 inch is about as big as I can handle.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 04/21/18 06:05 PM

John,it looks like the one you have isn't a semi-trash pump.Do you have any trouble pumping dirty water?
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 04/21/18 06:32 PM

John,thats the main reason I don't have at least a cheap one right now.I went to Northern Tool and a few other places today to look at some.If I buy a cheap pump, the 400' of discharge hose and 20' suction hose will cost more than the pump.I stopped yesterday at the place I rented one from,to see what they sell and was considering renting one again to see how well it would work before I started buying things.They told me they will only rent one with a max of 100' of hose,that that was all the farther they could pump.
Posted by: John Fitzgerald

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 04/21/18 07:23 PM

Originally Posted By: Bobbss
John,it looks like the one you have isn't a semi-trash pump.Do you have any trouble pumping dirty water?


Bob,
After a rain, I wait until the creek clears to about eight inches plus of visibility before I pump. After a few days, the creek will have over three feet of clear visibility.

If I can see the bottom of a five gallon bucket a little over half full, I am good to go. I have had zero problems.

I put the suction strainer down into a one gallon bucket, then completely surround the bucket with window screening and go a little way up the suction hose with the screening, clamping on both ends to make a good filter with a large area.

This is to prevent sucking up pebbles, leaf particles, etc.

They will pump an indefinite distance over level ground. The rental companies don't want to rent more than 100 feet per pump.

I got the pipe first, then bought the pump after working out the pipe situation, knowing with full confidence that it would work.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 04/21/18 10:48 PM

John is there a reason you didn't want to go with a semi trash pump?
Posted by: John Fitzgerald

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 04/21/18 11:32 PM

Originally Posted By: Bobbss
John is there a reason you didn't want to go with a semi trash pump?


When water is not completely opaque, the semi trash is not needed. They are more expensive and don't pump as much water, as the clearances are a little greater. Mine is rated to handle very small solids.

When I pump, I usually pump all day, and need the highest efficiency possible. Sometimes, in the summer, after a good rain, there is only sufficient clear flow in the creek for one or two days of pumping. The creek is usually too muddy the first day, and I would not want all that mud in the pond, so the trash pump would not be useful anyway.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 04/22/18 12:21 AM

Thanks John.
Posted by: John Fitzgerald

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 04/23/18 08:40 PM

Bob, Here's a picture of my pump setup in action.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 04/23/18 11:17 PM

Thanks John!I wish I had a creek like you,where I could pump as much as I want.It would be worth doing for sure then.
Posted by: John Fitzgerald

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 04/24/18 10:23 AM

Originally Posted By: Bobbss
Thanks John!I wish I had a creek like you,where I could pump as much as I want.It would be worth doing for sure then.


Bob,
It's an intermittent stream. I can't pump at all in the drier months, sometimes not for 5 months straight. I only wish it ran all year.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 04/24/18 09:25 PM

John it would be really nice to have a year round creek,right now I'd be happy if I had one that I could pump out of during the spring.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 05/09/18 11:58 PM

It's been a while so I thought I'd update,not that I have anything good to update about.lol!The pond is still dropping and I've lost most of the water I gained back in march.The only good thing I can say is it dropped slower this time than it did last time and seems to be getting slower as time goes on.
I've only had 2 rains since March that was big enough to add any water,enough to cover a few days losses each.I've also had a few small ones but most of the good rains seem to keep missing me.I've gotten no where near as much rain as I thought I would this spring.I have a chance for some next week but I won't hold my breath.lol!
When we build on the property we will have to have a well drilled so I'm going to see if I can up grade the well to be able to help keep the pond filled.Is anyone using the same well to feed their pond and house both?
In the center of my pond there is around 1 1/2' of mud-silt,I was wondering if I stirred it up some every now and then,if it would maybe draw into the seeps and help seal things?
If I ever get enough rain I might also try some Soilfloc.
Posted by: John Fitzgerald

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 05/10/18 10:41 AM

Bob,
That's good news that it's dropping slower.

When my second pond was being built mid December of 2016, the builder did not have access to a roller. I had him use his large (10 ton) backhoe with a full bucket of clay to run over things and pack after it was mostly done, especially in the deeper basin.

It filled slowly at first, then we got good rains spring of 2017 and it went over the spillway twice, but leaked down a few inches fairly fast. It continued to slowly leak through last fall and winter drought, and had dropped 22-1/2 inches by late February.

Then substantial rains came late February this year, put it over the spillway. After it quit running over after a few days, I looked at the places where it had been seeping, and very little water was there.
It stayed up within six inches of full for a month with no rain, then went over again in late March rains, and dropped only about 4 inches in April despite way below normal rain.

After the early May rain, it is full again, and only dropped an inch in a week of above normal temps and wind.

If a clay dam is not fully compacted, sometimes it will settle over time and begin to hold. The last time I looked at the former seeps, only saw a little dampness.
The mud washed into a clay pond with the first few fills will sometimes clog seeps, and that along with settling of the dam makes it better.

So, my second pond is holding better and better.

It may have helped some last summer and fall when the farmer who gets my hay drove his heavy tractor and round baler around the dam to get to the lower edge of the field. He made some wide shallow ruts on the back part of the top of the dam.

Leaks where actual water flow is observed probably won't ever fix themselves, but wide seeps can sometimes get better with time.

Maybe this can give you some hope, Bob.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 05/10/18 01:35 PM

Thanks John!How much was you loosing a day when it first started coming up?
I have yet to see where any water is going.Everything is dry behind the dam.I've been keeping an eye on the ditches out at the road and down the hill on the other side of the road.I'm friends with the guy that lives on the other side of the road and he is keeping an eye out in his yard for me as well.It seems to be seeping in on the sides,near the bottom. I've noticed that the area that was under water and has dried out,has settled a lot.
I've been thinking about getting a pair of waders,and start walking around in the middle to stir up the silt some,and hope it draws into the leaks.
What I really need is rain!
Posted by: John Fitzgerald

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 05/10/18 02:07 PM

Bob, it didn't seem to leak at all until it got up out of the excavated part, then it leaked through the inadequately compacted clay dam.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 05/10/18 02:44 PM

Thanks John!Do you know how much it was leaking when you first knew it was leaking?
Posted by: John Fitzgerald

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 05/10/18 06:19 PM

Originally Posted By: Bobbss
Thanks John!Do you know how much it was leaking when you first knew it was leaking?


About a half inch a day. The excavated part is 5 feet deep, and the dam raises the level three more feet until it spills over the upper side onto the undisturbed grass. There's only three feet of head at the base of the dam when full.
Posted by: Bill D.

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 05/10/18 09:25 PM

Originally Posted By: John Fitzgerald
Originally Posted By: Bobbss
Thanks John!Do you know how much it was leaking when you first knew it was leaking?


About a half inch a day. The excavated part is 5 feet deep, and the dam raises the level three more feet until it spills over the upper side onto the undisturbed grass. There's only three feet of head at the base of the dam when full.


John,

Have you ever measured the evaporation rate at your place? I would think part of that 1/2 inch water loss is evaporation but don't know how much. Maybe a tote with water by the pond and compare the two level changes? I would start with the tote full so you can try to simulate wind affect. Just a thought.
Posted by: John Fitzgerald

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 05/10/18 10:10 PM

Bill,
My forage/sediment pond does not leak at all, and is in pure clay. I compare the drop in the other ponds to it to see how much is leakage and how much is evaporation during periods of no rainfall.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 05/11/18 01:23 PM

Thanks John.I'm sure I'm starting to loose some to evaporation,it's been windy and hot.Already hitting 90 around here.It's starting to look like we are going to skip spring around here and go straight into summer and another drought!
If my pond had more water,things would really be taking off.I see lots of water bugs,little frogs and tadpoles. It was bothering me that their was no fish in it after all this time, so I stopped at the bait shop and bought 5 dozen FHM (they gave me closer to 10 dozen) and put them in just for the heck of it.If they make it great,if not,no big deal.It makes me feel better knowing there is something like a fish swimming in there.lol!
Posted by: John Fitzgerald

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 05/11/18 02:36 PM

Bob, the FHM are tough, and can withstand poor water conditions. Plus, they will keep it free of mosquito larvae.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 05/11/18 03:32 PM

The mosquitos was another reason I thought it might be worth doing.I put them in my old pond last year,but it dropped so low over the winter that they didn't make it.I've been thinking about putting more in there but I'm still thinking about trying to pump the water out of it and into the new one.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 05/22/18 01:43 PM

I got a little rain over the weekend,from Friday morning-Sunday night,4 rain events added up to about 1.55".Sunday nights .65" helped me the most,the ground was still moist from Friday and Saturdays rain and it came down pretty hard and fast.I gained about 7",which is better than nothing but Mother Nature has not been very generous to me with the rain.Everyone around me has been getting way more rain.Everytime I would look at the radar the rain was just to the south of me or just to the north of me or both,and there would be a hole in the rain just around me.lol!It's been this way for a while,everyone I've talked to has been getting way more than me.I have yet to get a single day big rain,where you get 3"+, with most of it being over a few hours.
Posted by: SetterGuy

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 05/22/18 08:41 PM

Bobbss,
Weíve got a bunch here near St Louis. Some with good runoff. Less than half that up at my pond, with no runoff.
Is your pond near a large lake? My pond sits about a mile and a half straight east of Mark Twain Lake. (17,000+ acre corps lake). Iím starting to think that the lake effects my weather. Iíll see big storms barreling in on my pond, but as the clouds go over the lake it seems to split north south, or just peter out.
Posted by: snrub

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 05/22/18 11:44 PM

We ended up with about 2" total here over the weekend and that was just enough to fill all the ponds and my main pond just trickled a little over the overflow pipe. I could use a little more to get some flow through in the main pond to flush some nutrients out, but at least everything is full again.

North of me a little ways must have got a lot more rain because Cow Creek that cuts across the very corner of my place was at bank full. I would guess ten miles north of me they got twice the rain I got.
Posted by: Rainman

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 05/23/18 06:51 AM

Bobbs, if your pond loses all it's water, you should rent a 36,000 pound Vibratory sheepsfoot for a day and just use all 8 hours compacting the bowl.....at the proper frequency vibration, it will compact up to 3 feet deep.....by far your lowest priced "guess" on how you can accomplish sealing the pond.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 05/23/18 11:43 PM

Jeff,no big lakes near me.I'm not getting much of the rain that's been in the St. Louis area.Last Monday I got .20", and I talked to a guy 5 miles from me that got .50", Thursday I got nothing, when a little south of me got 2"+, Friday I got .60" at the pond and at my work it was around 1.5".Monday, weather man Dave Murry said some of the area got up to 7" over the weekend, I got 1.55".

Rex,I haven't ruled that out, but it's not as easy as that.There is aroun 4' of water in it, and probably another 12"+ of mud under that.I would also have to bring something it to move the large stumps and rocks.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 06/02/18 12:14 AM

Well still no real rain for me.I added up all of April's and May's rain and it was only 5.05",and that was spread over 11 rain falls.

I probably still have just under 4' of water.I'm sure some of it is because the water level is lower,but it has been dropping slower.Probably not much more than evaporation,it's been in the 80s and 90s here for a while and has only been dropping a 1/4"-1/3" a day for a little while now.

I'm not sure if it is because it's in the direct sun and the water is getting pretty warm, but a lot of the tadpoles are dying.Anyone ever have this?I also found 3 dead FHM, but I also seen that the FHM have spawned and I have some little tiny ones.
Posted by: SetterGuy

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 06/02/18 08:33 AM

I get an occasional dead tadpole, but not many. My pond has millions of them. From bullfrogs to toads. Iíve had about the same amount of rain, with similar water loss. Maybe your leak is slowing down? Hope so..
A few days ago, I had a forecast of 100% rain for today, with some storms being severe. They just changed it to 50% with occasional showeres. In other words Iíll get another .1Ē.
mad
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 06/02/18 09:59 AM

Jeff,I have about as many dead tadpoles as I do live ones.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 06/07/18 12:15 PM

Jeff,I just read another post of your's and sounds like you didn't get any good rain last weekend either.I had 2 storm fronts come in on Saturday with lots of thunder but little rain.I got about .15" total.Things are getting really dry again already.
I had to put a new measuring stake it yesterday,the water level has been dropping slow enough and been around the same level long enough that the old stake had so much moss growing on it that I couldn't read it anymore.
Posted by: SetterGuy

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 06/07/18 12:38 PM

Bob, it doesnít look all that promising either. We did end up getting .9Ē which helped a lot. My pond has about stayed even since the big 2Ē rain back on March 26th. We keep getting enough .5Ē rainfalls to help it hold its own.
The weather app shows several chances over the next few weeks. We at least need an inch or two, or the crops are really going to suffer. I was there yesterday and the corn is looking pretty wilted.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 06/15/18 09:58 PM

Well June is already half over and I still haven't even got a whole inch of rain so far this month.I did get .40" last Saturday that gave me about 1.75" in the pond and then I got another .40" last night that came down a little faster and gave me about 2" in the pond.Not much but better than nothing.lol!It would be nice to at least get a few more feet in it again to see how well it would hold it.

I'm at least having a little fun watching the FHM numbers grow, and watching how fast they grow.I put about 10 dozen in just for something to do, just over a month ago and every where you look there is little ones.Some of them look like their already about a 1/4-1/3 the size of the ones I put in.Every other day or so I see more that look like they was just hatched.It is fun to watch.Maybe one of these days I will get to play with some real fish.lol!
Posted by: John Fitzgerald

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 06/16/18 11:05 AM

I have only received 0.8" here so far this month. Way below average for June.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 06/16/18 11:30 PM

John, I've got about .95" so far this month.Whats even worse is I've only got about 6" over the last 2 1/2 months, and that was spread over around 15 rains.If Spring was this bad,I hate to see what July and August will be like.
Posted by: SetterGuy

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 06/18/18 07:45 AM

Bobbss, donít know what your forecast is, but up by my place Iíve got 60, 90, 100, 90, 20, 40, 60, 30.. Percentages for rain over the next 8 days starting Tuesday. Could be a bit of a wet spell coming!? Our beans and corn are going to really suffer if we donít get a fair amount of moisture soon. Corn is already looking pretty stressed.
Hope you get a few feet of water in your pond!
Jeff
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 06/19/18 12:01 AM

Jeff,their showing chances of rain every day for the next week, and I'm HOPING!!!!But I've seen so many chances of rain over the last few months, but it always misses me some how.I keep hoping, but, when they say we have a chance of rain, I always figure it's for everyone but me.lol!
Posted by: SetterGuy

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 06/19/18 12:41 PM

Was. 60, 90, 100, 90, 20, 40, 60, 30.. Percentages for rain over the next 8 days
Now. 40, 60, 90, 70, 20, 30, 20, 30, 40.. dropping chances. Oh well. Still hoping. Ha!
Posted by: John Fitzgerald

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 06/19/18 01:17 PM

Jeff,
The weather forecast is biased toward forecasting more rain than will actually happen.

The main reason: people become angry with the weather forecasters when an event is rained out but rain not forecasted.

If rain is forecasted but no rain, most people are happy. Most are ignorant of farming and ponds and would rather it rarely rained. They like to live in the desert, but like to enjoy cheap water.

We pond owners and farmers are the exception.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 06/19/18 03:00 PM

Those chances of rain always seem to get smaller and more scattered as the rain gets closer to me.lol!
Posted by: Mike Whatley

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 06/19/18 08:00 PM

If I could do anything to push this system your way, I surely would. My pond was down about 20 inches on Sunday, it's plum full and has the 6" overflow pipe half full and its still coming down. Those parts of SETX that flooded for Harvey are holding their breath as the water continues to rise. Some areas reporting up to 9" of rain the last two days. We've had enough now. It needs to move on to those who need it.
Posted by: Mike Whatley

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 06/19/18 08:19 PM

Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 06/20/18 12:24 PM

Mike, my pond is down about 15', so I'll take all you can send me!lol!I think I got some of your rain last night, at least they say the rain coming our way is coming from your area.I got about .90" yesterday evening, that came down within an hour or so, with most of it coming down in about half an hour.When I got up I could tell it just stopped raining, and I had a total of 1.85" in the rain gauge.As happy as I was to get that much, when I watched the weather, they was showing areas not far from me getting a lot more, so I still felt short changed.lol!Then when I checked the pond this morning, I felt short changed again.lol!I'm not sure if I got as much at the pond as I did at the house.Their about 4,000' from each other.I didn't get as much in the pond as I thought I would, and things just didn't look as wet as I thought they should.My gravel road seemed to dry for that much rain.I did get about 6 1/4" in the pond, but that's about what I figured I'd get from the first .90", as fast as it came down.I'm still happy to have gotten what I did and they are showing a chance of rain everyday for the next week, so hopefully I'll get a few more good rains out of it.
Posted by: Mike Whatley

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 06/20/18 04:20 PM

I know how you feel, Bob. Before this storm blew in, I was excited every time it drizzled (which wasn't often) and when it did rain, I'd be disappointed because my sandy ground would drink it all up. Even with rain the water level just kept shrinking.

After day one of this I only gained two inches because there was no shed. The ground kept it all. By the time I got home yesterday the pond was about 3 inches over the full pool line.

As dry as it's been for you, it's gonna take a serious rain to get you filled up. Fingers crossed you get what you need, but I hope it comes at just the right pace to keep y'all from flooding. That ain't fun brother. Been there, done that....twice in two years.
Posted by: John Fitzgerald

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 06/20/18 04:59 PM

We got exactly one inch today in about four hours. It's been dry here too, so the ponds gained about an inch. We might get a little more rain this evening. I would like to see another inch fall over a span of about five to ten minutes.

Bob, it's going to take a serious flood to fill that pond another 15 feet. How much watershed does it have in acres?
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 06/20/18 11:44 PM

Thanks Mike,it's been so dry around here,I only got run off from the area that was cleared for the pond.By time I got home from work,things had already dried out a lot.The sediment pond got no run off from the rest of the wooded water shed area.
John,I only have about 7 (steep) acres of water shed,which is on the low side for a 3/4 acre pond.After I know it will hold water well enough,I will probably have some work done to increase it.I also want to clear out some of the under growth in the wooded area,so it will get more run off.
Posted by: snrub

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 06/21/18 12:48 AM

Only got a quarter of an inch here. Corn really needed it and it helped out. Supposed to have good chances over the weekend so this shower will hold things till then. Hope we get some more.
Posted by: Mike Whatley

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 06/21/18 04:52 AM

Do you have a well near by that you can plumb into? A venturi built in to the water line would ensure 02 was being injected before the water reached your pond. Or you could have it run over some baffles to aerate it prior to entry as well. You'd just have to regulate the flow so the pump ran continuously. Shutting on and off wouldn't be good for the pump.

Looks like the rain is pushing off to your East.
Posted by: Dave Davidson1

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 06/21/18 08:29 AM

Bob, my big pond went from about 1.3 acre to less than 1/4 acre of a muddy mess. Then the rains started and didnít stop. Iíve heard that all droughts are ended by a flood and it darn sure happened to me. Due to leaks, Iím currently down about a foot.
Posted by: SetterGuy

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 06/21/18 10:16 AM

Well, itís all but over. No more rain in the FC. I ended up with 1.1Ē for all that rain was predicted. The trees and beans sucked up any runoff, so my pond is actually down a couple inches over the last two weeks. Looks like hot & dry through to the 4th..

I totally jinxed us by thinking we couldnít miss.. mad
Posted by: John Fitzgerald

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 06/21/18 01:09 PM

It looked like on the radar that we were going to get another good rain early yesterday evening. It fizzled before getting here. Total yesterday was exactly one inch. No appreciable run off locally. Sometimes I wish my watershed was all concrete.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 06/21/18 01:32 PM

Mike, no well at this time.We hope to build a new house on the property soon.We will have to put a well in, and I'm hoping I can upgrade it some to help keep the pond full.
Dave,I hope your right.I don't want to see people get hurt or have a lot of problems from it, but I'm ready to see some flooding.lol!In 2 months it will be right at a year since my pond was built,and I still only have a little over 4' of water in a 19' deep hole.lol!Even if it isn't going to hold water well enough, it would still be nice to see it full one time, after all the work, time and money I put in it.lol!
Jeff, I was still seeing some chance on the news this morning, but it wasn't looking as good as it did.The radar on my phone, just showed a small patch of rain going over my pond,but I've seen that before, and still didn't get any rain.Since you jinxed us,it's your turn to do the rain dance!lol!
Posted by: Mike Whatley

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 06/21/18 04:23 PM

Heck Bob, if you're planning on building on the property anyway, instead of putting $ into clearing ground to improve watershed, I think I'd invest in the well now instead!! I was really tempted to (and may still yet) tie into mine and route waterline to the pond. Of course I already live on my pond, literally 40 feet from the front door, so it would be easy to do for me. Luckily we got rain. Still are actually. Sure wish it would go park it's butt over y'all for a couple of days.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 06/21/18 11:20 PM

Mike,the well will cost a lot, so I probably won't be able to do it till we build.I also need to know where the house will set for sure before drilling a well.I know the back of the house will only be about a 100' from the pond, but may be moved 50'-100' left or right.I talked to a well guy not long a go and he said some other problems with a well will be that most wells in my area over 600' deep, and at 600' it would take at least a 5hp pump to do me much good, and we might have to go 800' or more to find enough water.Which would take a even bigger pump.He also said that pumps that are good for ponds aren't good for house and vice versa, and that the bigger the pump the harder it will be to make it work and that a 5hp will probably be as big as I could use and make it work for both.I do plan to talk to another well guy, but I think I will have to see how deep they have to drill to know what I can do.Another down side is the monthly electric bill.All that being said, I hope I can do something with the well and I would think anything I can add from a well would be better than nothing,lol!
Posted by: Dave Davidson1

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 06/22/18 05:35 AM

A well to fill a pond would be tough to cost justify due to electricity costs. Water is hard to find on my place. A well guy told me that the average household uses, as I remember, about 250 gallons per day. My well, when initially dug, produced 1/10 gpm. But, it does it 24 hours per day and I pump into a big tank. Don't remember how many gallons it holds but I seem to recall that it is 2,500 gallons. It is shallow. We found water at 50 ft and no more below that. I have no reason to worry about running out of water for household use.

I can't pump into a pond or even have an orchard. We seldom get a lot of rain on my place. When we do, it is usually a gully washer.

I dowsed the well with a couple of bent brass rods. I walked around and one of them swung sideways. I marked the spot and it didn't happen anywhere else. When I went back over it, it didn't happen again. So, I hunted up a local dowser. He confirmed my finding but said there wasn't much. I went ahead and drilled there and things worked out.

The dowser used a small, forked, willow limb. While he was there a local cowboy dropped by. He tried it and could also do it. He found another spot. However, if I put my hand on the stick when he was holding it, it didn't pull down. I don't have the touch and others do. When they used my brass rods, it didn't work for either of them.

I called Lusk and asked if he had any idea how long it took rain water to perc 50 ft through the ground on my sandy, rocky place. He figured about a week.

So far, I've never run out of water but a lot of permanent residents in the area have had wells dry up. I might also if I lived there full time.
Posted by: John Fitzgerald

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 06/22/18 10:36 AM

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre...e-sally-le-page
Posted by: snrub

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 06/22/18 11:59 AM

Many many years ago one of the major farm magazines did a dousing demonstration. There was a construction site where the dirt was going to be completely filled in or moved in a large area. Can't remember but something like 160 acres. They buried a bunch of thousand gallon water tanks and covered the entire site with fresh fill.

Can't remember all of the specifics but they had several dowsers do their thing and as I recall several were able to determine some number of positive hits that were far greater than what random guesses would have discovered.

Can't remember the specifics enough. That was way before on line stuff so don't know how a person would find it.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 06/22/18 03:15 PM

The well guy I talked to was saying it would probably be around $15,000.00 for a normal well in my area and another $4,000.00-$5,000.00 to go up to the 5hp pump.So not cheap.lol!
I had another 1/4" in the rain gauge this morning,that gave me 1 1/4" in the pond.That seems like a lot from a small rain, so I'm thinking I might of got more rain at the pond than I did at the house.
Posted by: Mike Whatley

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 06/22/18 05:07 PM

Dang, you have to pay a lot for a well up there!! Mine is 200 feet with a 1hp submersible pump at 80 feet. Only cost $3500.
Posted by: Dave Davidson1

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 06/22/18 06:17 PM

john, I didn't believe in the hocus pocus of dowsing until I saw it done. And, in my area, it's too scarce for random chances. I (well driller) bored 3 dry holes prior to the dowsing.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 06/23/18 09:27 AM

Mike, I wish that's all it cost here, I'd put in two wells, one for the house and one for the pond. A couple of home builders I've talked to said they usually averaged around $10.000.00, but could be higher. The well guy I talked to said my area is one of the highest elevations in the state and that you have to drill deeper there.I know my property is one of the highest in my area, it was picked for a 911 tower, and has one on the back of it. I'm sure how high my property sets is one of the reason it wants to soak up so much water.Not much ground water setting that high up, especially after a bad drought.
Posted by: Mike Whatley

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 06/23/18 12:05 PM

I'm sure you guys have to deal with a lot more rock than we do down here which would attribute to a higher cost per foot of depth. My driller went to over 300 before we decided to come back up to 200. There was a good vein there, and he figured he probably wouldn't find another vein till 400+. We had the right kind of sand and so far I can't complain about the quality. I was checking the pond this morning to see if our rain event had made any difference to the chemistry. While I was at it, I checked my well water. Its got better Ph, alk and hardness than my pond. It's actually got me wondering if I wouldn't be better off supplementing my pond water on a regular basis from the well (say one day a week for 10 - 12 hours). Maybe someone more in the know will chime in on it.

I don't think they ever hit solid rock. Just a lot of gravel and shell.

I can't imagine having to pay 10k+ for each well.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 06/26/18 12:06 PM

Mike, yes, there is plenty of rock around here.I got lucky when they built my pond, and they didn't hit solid rock, but they did dig up a few good size ones that went back in the pond for the fish.
Jeff, I'm guessing you did the rain dance.lol!I got another .85" of rain this morning, and they show more chances this evening.I got about .19" over the weekend from 2 small rains.The pond has come up about 12", in the last 10 days or so.Nice to see things go up for a change, even if it doesn't last.lol!
Posted by: SetterGuy

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 06/26/18 04:24 PM

Bob, I think we got .5Ē yesterday, and .4Ē today. Iíll take it. It sure is helping the guy thatís got beans planted up at my place. I was getting pretty concerned.
Iím hoping the pond can hang in there until we get a significant rain event up there.
Hope you are getting a bunch today. I just came up from Carbondale IL today. There are fields down there with lots of standing water, and the creeks and ditches are overflowing.
Northern MO, the drought continues. mad
Posted by: Jimmi

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 06/26/18 04:46 PM

Bob,
We got 3.8" this morning! I have to say it was the quickest deluge since I built the pond back in '11. Blew out the ditches in the county road, went over the emergency spillway, and floated my wife's kayak that was high and dry all the way over to the spillway. Fortunately, the kayak got hung up and didn't go over. The pond was 5-6" low yesterday - flowing big time now and the next wave is rumblin'.

This gravel wasn't there in my silt trap yesterday:

Posted by: SetterGuy

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 06/26/18 05:18 PM

Jimmi
Youíre killing me. So close to me, and I canít get a single rain since March with any runoff. Ha! Glad someone has water.
Jeff
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 06/26/18 09:51 PM

Jeff, glad to hear you got some.It seems like Illinois is always getting a lot.It seems like no matter how much rain I get, there is always somewhere close to me getting a lot more.lol!I checked my rain gauge a little while ago and was right at 1.7" for the day.It was still sprinkling a little but I think it has about stopped now.
Jimmi, WOW! I don't think I've got that much rain in 2 days (let alone 1 day)since the pond was built.Thats the stuff dreams are made of.lol!
Posted by: John Fitzgerald

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 06/26/18 09:56 PM

Bob,
Several years ago we got 9.6 inches in five hours. Bet that might fill your pond. LOL
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 06/26/18 11:11 PM

John, I can only dream of that.lol!
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 06/27/18 02:10 PM

I ended up with a total of 1.75" of rain yesterday. I had about another 6" in the pond this morning. Since June 14th, the pond has came up about 19 1/2". Now I have to hope it doesn't drop to fast.lol!

If it doesn't start dropping to fast again, I think I will go a head and try to add more FHM.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 06/27/18 03:46 PM

I only put about 10 dozen FHM from a bait shop in so far, and I already have little ones of all sizes, everywhere you look. Right now my pond is only about 55'X80' (just guessing) and around 5 1/2' deep.I don't want to put to many in, but want to try not to get to far behind on stocking, while I wait for it to fill and see if it will hold. How many FHM do you guys think I can put in there? I'm not sure how easy it would be for me to get some by the pound right now, I may have to go back to the bait shop.
Posted by: snrub

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 06/27/18 04:00 PM

As long as you do not have any other fish in there and it will be a while before you stock any more you probably have enough. If they are reproducing their offspring will be reproducing within months. If you had been stocking them with BG you would have wanted more, but where they are the only fish and they have some time before the BG or other fish are stocked you likely will have plenty.

Depending on how big they were 120 of them would have been around a half pound.

They only live about 18 months so they have to get with the program on reproducing.

When you get ready to stock your other fish if it looks like you do not have wall to wall FHM you could put some more in then. But I suspect by the time you stock other fish you will have five or ten pounds worth already there if they reproduce well.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 06/27/18 04:42 PM

Thanks Snrub! They didn't waste any time.I think it was about 2 1/2 weeks after I put them in that I saw the first spawn.The first ones are already around 1 1/2" long or maybe more.They sure grow fast!I won't put anything else besides FHM in until I know it will hold enough water to winter ok.I don't mind taking a chance with the FHM, but I don't want to spend a lot of money stocking everything until I know it will hold enough water.My pond is pretty small now but I do hope it will be around 3/4 acre someday.lol!Do you still think thats enough in it?
Posted by: snrub

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 06/27/18 04:49 PM

If you want them to really take off buy some fish food (catfish food or multi spcies 32% protein stuff is fine for FHM) and toss out about a cup or two cups each day.

Kind of fun watching them push the pellets around the pond. Where your pond is only partially full it may not be very fertile yet. The fish food will make sure they have something to eat and kick start the food chain process in the pond by adding fertility.

Don't worry about the pellets being too big. They will push them around the pond till they soften up and they can consume them. If they sink to the bottom the FHM will find them there.

I did experiments with snorkel and also scuba more than once and anywhere in the pond you go, as long as it is above the thermocline, the FHM would find me and be pecking all over my exposed body. Pulling at my arm and leg hairs. They will find feed anywhere you put it as long as there are not other predators in the pond that force them into cover. I dropped piles of feed on the bottom (sinking catfish food) and watched with an underwater camera. Within a minute or two a FHM school would find the pile and devour it. Two feet deep or seven feet deep, did't matter. They would find it in short order.

Once you get predators in the pond the FHM will be forced to find cover or stay around the shallows or get eaten. But early on, they will be all over that pond.

When you see them cleaning up that amount of feed you could increase it over time. Being well fed will help them have bigger spawns.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 06/27/18 11:47 PM

Thank Snrub! I stopped at Farm and Home and picked up a 40# bag of fish food. I think it was called Sportsman's Choice or something like that. I threw some out but couldn't stay long. A few of them was hitting it already.
I've got a fair amount of what I assume is a light green algae floating on top. A few times there was some that was more of a brownish green. It's gone back and forth with the color.It may be new blooms starting out light green, then getting darker. Is this a good sign of it being fertile?
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 07/06/18 11:47 PM

I've been feeding the FHM for a little while now, and getting a fair amount of activity. I've been trying to feed in the morning and evening. As hot as it's been around here, they feed much better in the morning. The larger ones come up and hit real fast and go back down, and sometimes get a small boil going. There will be many groups of 20-100 of the smaller ones, with each group pushing around on one pellet. It is fun to watch them, and at least makes me feel a little more like a pond owner.lol!
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 07/07/18 12:31 AM

After gaining the 19 1/2" of water about 9-10 days ago, it did start dropping a little faster, but nothing like before and it seems to be slowing down again. The first time it was at this level it was dropping 3-4" a day, the last time it was at this level it was dropping around 1.75" a day. It's dropped a little under 3" total since it came up.I think it dropped a little over a 1/2" a day for a couple of days in the middle, but I think it is only dropping about 1/3" a day now. Still not great but as hot as it's been (90-100) around here, I figure it's not that bad either, and a lot better than it was.lol!
Posted by: snrub

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 07/07/18 12:44 AM

With temps in the 90's and some wind you will get some significant evaporation.

Also as the pond fills to a new level the surrounding ground will soak up a certain amount of initial water. The better the clay and compaction the less effect there will be, but there will still be some water drop from this initial saturation.

Sounds like your FHM are doing fine. The feed will really help them have even more successful spawns.

As far as the algae, yes it will change from a green to a brown as a bloom dies off. But if I recall correctly from what I have heard on this forum there are also brown varieties of algae or maybe it was the critters that eat the algae...... I can't remember. Maybe Bill Cody or someone can give a quick explanation. I just know my pond color changes with the weather and other things I do not understand. Right now it has got a lot more clear in the hot weather.
Posted by: SetterGuy

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 07/07/18 09:12 AM

Sounds a lot better Bob. At a third of an inch, Iím not sure you arenít losing just a little more than evaporation. We are up at our weekend. Iím down a few more inches, but we are still looking for rain. Weíve had a few .5Ē rains that have the crops looking good, but zero runoff, and not staying ahead of my leak plus evaporation.
Mowed for four hours yesterday, until the mowing deck of my old craftsman lawn tractor broke. Wish I had a welder, and some welding skills. Ha! Taking it off and hauling it to town.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 07/07/18 11:53 PM

Thanks Guys! I hope I didn't speak to soon.lol! It seems to of dropped a little more again in the last 24 hours, maybe a little over a 1/2".We've had a big temperature drop over the past 2 day, Thursday was near 100 and today it was only about 85 and I think it got down in the 60s last night. I was figuring that would help with evaporation, and it would drop less. Will water in a pond expand and contract with the temperature? I started wondering if that could explain some of the extra drop?We store oil in tanks at my work and they will read higher when it's been hot for a while, and when we heat barrels of wax they will come up several inches.
The brownish-green algae I was seeing didn't look like it was dying. It would start growing on the rocks and stuff around the edge of the water, and on my measuring stake.
Jeff, maybe one of these days we'll get a rain big enough to get some good run off. I'm at least lucky enough that I get a little run off from the area cleared for the pond, but not from the rest of my area. My old silted in pond hasn't got any run off since march and is getting real low.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 07/08/18 09:18 PM

The pond was back to around 3/8" loss for the last 24 hours.It must of had something to do with the temperature drop.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 07/15/18 08:48 PM

I got lucky and got right at 2" of rain last night. It gave me about 7.75" in the pond, that's more than I lost since the last rain. Which is nice for a change.lol! I thought I was going to get more today, but no such luck.
I saw a groundhog on top of my dam the other day, are they anything to worry about?I don't need any critters digging in my dam.lol!
Posted by: Mike Whatley

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 07/15/18 09:01 PM

They dig Bob...really deep burrowed tunneling everywhere with multiple entrances. Get your varmint gun sighted in brother.
Posted by: Mike Whatley

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 07/15/18 09:08 PM

They dig Bob...really deep burrows tunneling everywhere with multiple entrances like prairie dogs. Definitely not dam friendly if they decide to take up residence. They tend to like steep embankments and under barn foundations. They're everywhere in Tennessee. Get your varmint gun sighted in brother.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 07/15/18 09:43 PM

Thanks Mike,I knew they like to dig but was hoping they didn't like to dig near water.lol!I'll start looking around and see if I can find it's hole.Do you think a .17HMR will do the job, or do you think I need the 5.56?lol!It may be easier to try and trap it, since I don't live on the property yet.
Posted by: nehunter

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 07/16/18 08:56 AM

The 17 will work great. They trap easy, box trap with apples or carrots, some thing that puts out a lot of smell.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 07/16/18 08:55 PM

Thanks Nehunter, I figured it was but can't say I've ever hunted them.lol! I probably haven't hunted anything in over 30 years.lol!I pretty much just like to plinker now a days.

I looked around some today but couldn't find any holes. Does anyone know how far away they'll go from their den (or what ever it's called) to eat? I'm not sure how big of a circle I need to search.
Posted by: nehunter

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 07/16/18 11:10 PM

I have seen them out in the middle of a wheat field a long way from any hole. They like buildings or brush piles more than open ground to make their dens. Look for any thing that they can crawl under, log old car. building that has no foundation under it. They do a lot of damage and their hole can be any size small 6 inch to large 16 inches. I would guess that they would go up to a 1/2 mile from there den.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 07/16/18 11:45 PM

Thanks Nehunter, I'll expand my search area. I'll check some stump and brush piles and such from when they did the clearing.
Posted by: John Fitzgerald

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 07/17/18 12:23 PM

I received .02 inch of rain yesterday. Since June 21, when we got exactly one inch of rain, the biggest rain I have received was 0.41 inches. Most of the rains have been less than 0.25 inch.

We are very low on rainfall since the last part of May. The last "good" rain we received with appreciable runoff was on May 17.

Some places within 30 miles have received much more. A few places within that radius, a little drier than us.
Posted by: Redonthehead

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 07/17/18 02:58 PM

My place in west central MO is not too bad off as pond is only down about 5 inches from full. An hour further north is a different story - Son is having to chop corn to feed cows as pastures have dried up, and no one is selling hay. Serious drought: http://droughtmonitor.unl.edu/CurrentMap/StateDroughtMonitor.aspx?MO
Posted by: SetterGuy

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 07/17/18 06:49 PM

My place isnít as bad as NW Missouri, but not much better. We keep getting .2Ē or .4Ē, enough to keep the crops going. My pond is still down 4í. Last rain with runoff was in March. All ponds around me are down almost as much, so I canít worry about it.
I keep thinking Aug and Sept are the really hot dry months. It could get pretty ugly.
Posted by: John Fitzgerald

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 07/17/18 07:49 PM

Thing is, isolated severe thunderstorms are hit or miss, and very local.
A place about 10 miles south of here, three summers ago, got about 5 inches in a couple hours, while we only got a light shower. In that isolated storm, low lying outbuildings and baled hay and equipment in the fields along the Middle Fork Of White River were washed away, and roads were washed out.

Yesterday, a place about 30 miles north received well over two inches, a place about 15 miles away 1.3 inches, and we received 2/100. Nearly the same thing today, except different areas got the rain, but not us.

Rain has been very hit and miss, mostly miss for most in this area.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 07/18/18 12:08 AM

The 2" I got this weekend was the biggest single rain event I've got since March. The only other rain I've got in July so far was .03". June wasn't to bad with just over 5", but that was probably spread over 10 or more rain events. April and May only added up to 6", and I know it was spread over 15 rain event. No matter how much I get, there is always someone close to me that got a lot more. I don't remember the last time that I got more than anyone else in my area, or even close. Seems like there is always somewhere close to me getting at least 2 or 3 times as much, and most of the time it seems it is the same areas getting all the rain.
Posted by: John Fitzgerald

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 07/18/18 11:00 AM

Bob, we got lucky this morning, and an isolated shower dumped just over 1.6" of rain in 70 minutes. Sadly, no run off to speak of, but I did not have to water the garden this morning, and my irrigation storage tanks now have their full 550 gallons in them.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 07/30/18 11:39 PM

Well July turned out better than April or May. I was gone on vacation all last week but I got 1.5" of rain on Thursday. Adding how much I probably lost over the 8 days I wasn't here to take a reading, and how much more it was up from when I left, I figure it added at least 6.5" to the pond. Then I got another .70" yesterday evening that gave me about 3" in the pond. I have a small chance of rain tomorrow, but I'm at about 4.23" of rain for July, with all of it but .03" being from 3 rain events. Much better than I thought July would be.
Posted by: SetterGuy

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 07/31/18 08:08 AM

Good news Bob. I hope your water levels arenít dropping. We will eventually get back to normal.
Wish I could report the same. We did get 1.2Ē Sunday. (.2Ē On Sat) Thatís the first significant rain weíve had since March. Iím afraid itís too little too late for the soybeans in our fields. I will be up there Thursday to see if it added any measurable water to the pond. I doubt it. The ground is so dry it sucks up everything.
Hope we get some more soon.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 07/31/18 11:29 PM

Thanks Jeff, glad to here you got something. My pond is still doing about the same, which isn't great, but is great compared to what it was.lol! I think the most I've lost in one day in a long time is about 1/2", and that is after I get enough rain to raise the level a fair amount. It seems to drop a little faster when it first goes up to a new level, and then starts dropping slower and slower every day. After loosing most of what I gained in March, it was at about 3.5', and it is at about 6' now. At least I'm gaining more than I'm loosing.lol! Most of the time it drops 1/4"-1/3" a day.
Posted by: John Fitzgerald

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 08/21/18 10:40 AM

Bobbss,
How's your pond filling?
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 08/21/18 02:03 PM

John, things are about the same. I haven't been getting enough rain to do any filling. I got .73" over 3 showers yesterday that put around 3" back in. At least I'm getting enough to keep it around the same level, about 6'. I keep hoping for a big rain, but haven't had a big one since March. I have to say, July and August have been wetter than I thought they would be.
My FHM are doing good and getting thicker. Can someone tell me how much longer they will keep spawning?
Posted by: John Fitzgerald

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 08/21/18 03:10 PM

The FHM should keep spawning for about another month, IME.
Posted by: SetterGuy

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 09/05/18 08:32 AM

Bob, hope youíve received some of these recent rains. Looks like we have some coming in the week also. Some Could really come down hard. Hope to see a picture of the pond ďfullĒ soon.
Jeff
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 09/05/18 11:02 AM

Thanks Jeff, I've got a little of it but no where near as much as you. I read your post that your up 2',which is great. I've only been getting enough rain to keep things around the same level, but it's better than just dropping. Lol! I'm hoping for a big rain this week. The map they showed on the news last night showed that we should both get a fair rain and a very good chance of up to 5". If we get that much, do you think it will get you full again? It wouldn't fill me up but it will sure be worth a picture. Lol!
Posted by: John Fitzgerald

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 09/05/18 11:52 AM

Bob,
If a good, hard 5" rain doesn't fill your pond, then you may have a lack of watershed. That will fill mine, and my watershed is only about a 6:1.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 09/05/18 01:26 PM

John, I guess I could be wrong. The only time I've got that much since the pond was built, it was over a weeks time. This one would probably be over 3 days, with most on 2 days, which would do a lot better. If I was to get most of it all at one time, maybe it could get it there.

My watershed is about 7 acres. With over half of it being heavy woods with very heavy under growth.So hard to get run off. The pond is about .75 acre and 19' deep. Which is pretty deep for a small pond, and will take a little more water to fill. I have about 6' in it right now.
Posted by: SetterGuy

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 09/05/18 09:29 PM

We had 4.5Ē and it brought my pond up 2í. I still need 3í to fill it, and those last three feet are even more water. I donít think 5Ē will do it for me.
My ratio is close to 10:1 with almost 10 ac filling a 1 ac pond. 50% thirsty trees and 50% thirsty beans. All the rains we had from March until a little over a week ago, we had zero runoff. Maybe if we blacktopped everything I could get better results. Haha..
Every little bit helps though.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 09/05/18 10:49 PM

Jeff, it looks like we're at about the same ratio. My wooded area hasn't given me any run off since march either. I was just watching the news and it looked like you might be getting some rain right now. Their showing 2"-5" with some pockets of 6" or more, but I won't hold my breath.lol!
Posted by: SetterGuy

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 09/06/18 09:21 PM

We ended up getting 2Ē, but it doesnít look like we will get much more. They already changed the Fri/Sat FC to .25 to .5Ē.
Still looks good for St Louis and south.

Edit.. Theyíve changed the FC again. Now it looks like I can get up to 5Ē more over the next two days. I may have to go up Sunday just to see how itís looking.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 09/07/18 12:15 PM

That's great Jeff! My rain gauge is still dry. When I watched the news last night it looked like the heaviest rain had shifted more to the east, as usual, so I will probably end up on the lower side of their predictions. I'll keep hoping, and maybe I'll get lucky.lol!
Posted by: John Fitzgerald

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 09/07/18 03:27 PM

No rain at all here. Four days ago they were saying 3 to 4 inches. The weather guessers are the only ones who can be wrong half of the time and still keep their jobs.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 09/07/18 03:50 PM

John, I know what you mean. A few days ago they made it sound like the whiole area would be getting rain by now and it wasn't going to stop until Sunday. So far there has only been a few spot sprinkles.
Posted by: John Fitzgerald

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 09/08/18 12:42 AM

I have no faith in the forecasting of rain.

Total for today and for September is 0.05 inches.
Posted by: SetterGuy

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 09/08/18 08:21 AM

We ended up with an additional 1.5Ē. Add that to the 2.3Ē we received on the 6th. Itís better than ususal. I doubt we got close to full, but I may just be 2í down which really helps going into fall. Who knows, it may be a wet October. So far today weíve received .1Ē up at the pond, but almost 2Ē in St Louis. Hope youíre getting some of this Bob.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 09/08/18 11:16 AM

Over the last 12 hours or so, I've got just over 3.5" of rain. I don't think I'll get much more, maybe a few more sprinkles. It came down pretty slow and steady, so not a lot of run off, and still none from the upper watershed. The pond was up at least a foot this morning, and still trickling in. I will check later and see where it's at. Not what I was hoping for, but better than nothing.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 09/08/18 09:32 PM

Well it didn't really come up anymore from this morning. I think it came up about 1.5' total. It's hard for me to say for sure, it went over the one measuring stake and I had to start getting my readings from the next stake up. Now to wait and see how well it holds it.lol!
Posted by: snrub

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 09/08/18 09:46 PM

We got enough rain here to fill my small sediment and forage ponds and the main pond is just right at full. I don't think any went over the overflow but it is right there. The old pond and the newish RES ponds are still a foot of so low but they have came up some.

I was glad to see the main pond up to full for the PBF get together September 22, 2018 in Pittsburg, Kansas.

Thing of it is for us farmers, some nice weather now to finish getting the corn crop out would be nice. Don't really need a muddy harvest and we are right on the edge of that now. More rain would complicate that but would be nice to finish filling the other ponds and get some flow through in the main pond.

What can I say. Farmers are never satisfied with the weather. grin
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 09/08/18 11:58 PM

One good thing about owning a pond is most of the time your happy when it rains.lol!
What burns my but is I just watched the news, and several places just east of me got over 8" and one over 9".
Posted by: SetterGuy

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 09/10/18 08:20 AM

Mine came up about a 1.5í. Iím happy with that. We had close to 4Ē. Some came down hard with good runoff. The pond looks much better with water in it. lol &#128514;
Mowed for hours yesterday then dove in. That rain water was on the cool side. Plus it was only 73 out. Didnít stay in too long. Water is on the brown side, hopefully itíll settle some by next weekend. Grandkids in and they want to swim and catch lots of fish.
Posted by: Redonthehead

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 09/10/18 08:24 AM

Here on the west side of MO I got plenty of rain - filled the pond and I got to see the primary drain pipe run in siphon mode. An 8 inch line can really gush a lot of water. Fortunately the emergency spillway did not come into play. Certainly seems like the drought is over and I hope you guys get your ponds filled this fall!
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 09/10/18 01:29 PM

Glad to hear you guys are getting filled up! Hopefully one of these days I can join you. Lol! I made it back to the sediment pond yesterday to check things out and it didn't even come close to filling up and flowing into the main pond.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 11/02/18 04:15 PM

I thought I'd do a up date, since it's been a while. Finally got a little rain over the last few days. About 2", not much but the most I've got since early September. It was enough to bring the pond up around 7".
Before I got this rain it was dropping about .25" or less a day. I've had some days that it was under .125". The cycle seems to be after a good level increase, it will drop around .5" a day, until it drops about half of what it gained and then start slowing down.
We've got a few more chances of rain over the next week, so maybe I'll get lucky and get a little more.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 11/02/18 04:16 PM

Are the rest of you getting any rain?
Posted by: John Fitzgerald

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 11/02/18 11:26 PM

1.34 inches here from Wednesday overnight until it ended by daylight this morning. Slow rain, not much runoff. Ponds came up a little over 1-1/2 inches. We need a fast rain, over 2 inches.
Posted by: SetterGuy

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 11/03/18 05:12 AM

I think we are supposed to get some more tomorrow Bob, hope we get you a good gullywasher. Weíve missed almost all of this recent rain, but got 5Ē early in Oct. My pond is pretty close to full. Up 4í from its lowest. Luckily my renter got his beans out, but itís still too wet to get wheat in. Not sure how that will effect runoff at our place, I would assume Iíll get better runoff this winter and spring.
We shall see.
Iím wondering if that level of your pond where the water drops faster indicates that there is a leak at that level? I shouldnít speculate, Iím certainly no expert.
Hope you get some Sunday & Monday.
Jeff
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 11/03/18 09:14 PM

Jeff, I'm not sure if you know what I mean. I'm not sure I'm saying it right. Lol! I mean every time it comes up to a new level that hasn't been under water since last March, it will drop faster at first, then slow down. It always slows down before it gets back down to the level it was before it rained. Kind of like 2 steps forward 1 step back 2 steps forward 1 step back.
Since most of my watershed is heavily wooded, I think I should get better run off over the winter after all the leaves fall off and things go more dormant. I think I'm going to try to thin my woods out some over the winter, so maybe I'll get better run off next year.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 11/05/18 12:28 PM

I ended up getting .40" yesterday, not as much as I thought I'd get, but I'll take it. It gave me a little over a inch in the pond. I think I have a better chance of rain later today.
When I went over to check it yesterday, I wasn't happy to see a GBH fly off.
I also think I have a little duckweed growing in my little sediment pond. I don't think much about it when I first seen it. I didn't know what it was and I just figured it was only growing because of how shallow it is. It's only had about 2' of water in it all summer. Then I started thinking it's going to wash into my main pond if I get enough rain. Do I need to do something about it?
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 11/05/18 12:35 PM

Here is a picture of what I have.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 11/05/18 12:40 PM

Another
Posted by: DrLuke

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 11/05/18 01:00 PM

Sure looks like the dreaded duck weed to me. We never had much of it, till this summer. We had loads of it this year! I'd zap it when it's still small in amount. It tends to double in quantity every 48 hrs, under ideal conditions (if I recall my PB forum schooling correctly).
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 11/05/18 03:06 PM

Thanks DrLuke! Should I just try to use my pool skimmer since my sediment pond is pretty small, or should I use some kind of herbicide, or both?
Posted by: John Fitzgerald

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 11/05/18 03:29 PM

Duckweed. They will die off with cold weather. You won't accomplish much by skimming them now except to remove some plant biomass.
Posted by: SetterGuy

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 11/05/18 06:13 PM

Originally Posted By: Bobbss
Jeff, I'm not sure if you know what I mean. I'm not sure I'm saying it right. Lol! I mean every time it comes up to a new level that hasn't been under water since last March, it will drop faster at first, then slow down. It always slows down before it gets back down to the level it was before it rained. Kind of like 2 steps forward 1 step back 2 steps forward 1 step back.
Since most of my watershed is heavily wooded, I think I should get better run off over the winter after all the leaves fall off and things go more dormant. I think I'm going to try to thin my woods out some over the winter, so maybe I'll get better run off next year.


Youíre right Bob. I misunderstood. I thought it was always going back quickly to the same spot. I didnít realize you were stair stepping up like you are. How many feet to full?
I did get 1Ē at our place yesterday. Probably got a little more runoff that usual with all the beans out.
Hope youíre getting full
Posted by: John Fitzgerald

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 11/05/18 09:07 PM

Here is my precipitation for the past seven days: 0.13,0.80,0.41,trace,0.48,0.0,0.13. Total 1.95, but very little runoff. It's a pattern that's been going on for several months.
Posted by: Rainman

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 11/05/18 11:21 PM

Bob, the leaves do look like duckweed, but your first pic shows a possible stem attached....if so, it is not duckweed. Duckweed usually has 2 opposing side leafs, with a couple short root strands like short white threads......

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0301479716308829
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 11/05/18 11:31 PM

Jeff, unfortunately until last week it had been in the back step motion since the first of September, do to lack of rain. For the 7 weeks or so before last week, I had only a few small rains. So I really haven't gained much in a while. I gained about 1.5' back early in September and I lost a lot of that over that 7 weeks, but I've gained that back now.I still have probably over 11' to go.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 11/05/18 11:43 PM

Thanks Rex,that stem you see is something else, not sure what. They just have a little root that looks like a hair, about a inch or so long. I have a better picture but I couldn't get it to upload from my phone do to size.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 11/06/18 12:03 AM

Here is a better one.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 02/13/19 01:47 PM

I thought I'd do an update. Still no gully washers for me, but I've had a lot of smaller rains, and the pond has kept inching it's way up. I went by yesterday and it was the highest it's been so far. Not by much (about 6"), but it's nice to see it higher than it's ever been. I knew it was getting close to being back up to where it was last March when it first came up but soaking it all up, so I started comparing pictures from then and now, and it's been higher than last March for about two weeks now. I think it's at about 10' now and has about 9' to go. Still seems to be doing the same as far as when it comes up to a new level it drops a little faster at first, then slows down when it's been around the same level for a while.

For a little while there, I was hoping for no rain so things could dry out enough so I could have my pond builder come out and work on my watershed area to improve my run off. Then I twisted my bad knee a few weeks ago, so I went back to hopping for rain until my knee gets better. lol!
Posted by: canyoncreek

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 02/13/19 03:04 PM

You mentioned 'hopping' for rain. Doing the rain dance with a bad knee might set you back a little further... wink
Posted by: John Fitzgerald

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 02/13/19 03:09 PM

We have had several soakers here since first of the year. My new pond is over the spillway for the ninth time since being built in December 2016, and the old leaker got to within three inches of the spillway yesterday, but is now down 3/4 of an inch.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 02/13/19 03:50 PM

Canyoncreek, I meant hoping. lol! I already know my rain dance is no good or my pond would be full already. lol!

John, there has been lots of big rains just south of me, they just don't make it all the way up to me. lol! It's been almost a year since I've had a big enough rain to give me run off from above the sediment pond.
Posted by: SetterGuy

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 02/13/19 09:39 PM

Bob, looks like weíve got a bit more moisture coming in the next week or so. I hope you get it full this winter. With the ground frozen hopefully youíll get great runoff. St Louis is still getting twice the rainfall that Iím getting up north. Hope youíre getting a lot of it.
Post a pic or two when you get a chance.
Jeff
Posted by: John Fitzgerald

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 02/13/19 10:32 PM

Our ground has only been frozen superficially this winter. The lowest we have had is 11 degrees, and not for long at that. Ponds never been completely iced in.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 02/13/19 11:56 PM

Thanks Jeff, here is a few pictures. The frozen one is from today and the others are from about a week ago. Not much to look at yet.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 02/14/19 12:06 AM

Originally Posted By: John Fitzgerald
Our ground has only been frozen superficially this winter. The lowest we have had is 11 degrees, and not for long at that. Ponds never been completely iced in.
John, I think mine has been iced over off and on, around a 3rd of the winter.
Posted by: snrub

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 02/14/19 07:17 AM

Originally Posted By: Bobbss
Thanks Jeff, here is a few pictures. The frozen one is from today and the others are from about a week ago. Not much to look at yet.


Shaped like a slice of pie!

Is the overflow at the far end of the picture? Or is that where water will enter.
Posted by: SetterGuy

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 02/14/19 08:43 AM

Originally Posted By: Bobbss
Thanks Jeff, here is a few pictures. The frozen one is from today and the others are from about a week ago. Not much to look at yet.


It looks like it would suffer from too much water coming in. Those are steep hills going up above the water line. My agent wanted me to have 10 ac of drainage for a 1 ac pond. Youíll hopefully get some good gully washers soon.
Posted by: John Fitzgerald

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 02/14/19 12:04 PM

The pictures make it look like there is not enough watershed, unless there is much more past the bottoms of the pictures.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 02/14/19 12:20 PM

Originally Posted By: snrub
Originally Posted By: Bobbss
Thanks Jeff, here is a few pictures. The frozen one is from today and the others are from about a week ago. Not much to look at yet.


Shaped like a slice of pie!

Is the overflow at the far end of the picture? Or is that where water will enter.
That is where the water comes in,at least if I get a big enough rain. Lol! That's the little sediment pond. It will always be some what of a slice of pie shape, but should round out a little when it gets full.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 02/14/19 12:36 PM

Originally Posted By: SetterGuy
Originally Posted By: Bobbss
Thanks Jeff, here is a few pictures. The frozen one is from today and the others are from about a week ago. Not much to look at yet.


It looks like it would suffer from too much water coming in. Those are steep hills going up above the water line. My agent wanted me to have 10 ac of drainage for a 1 ac pond. Youíll hopefully get some good gully washers soon.
Jeff, that steepness is the main reason I get as much run off as I do. The biggest part of my watershed is so heavily wooded that it takes a really big rain before it gives me any run off. I have about 7 acres of watershed for what I hope will be a .75 pond, so about the same as you.
Posted by: SetterGuy

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 02/14/19 12:47 PM

Ok, got it.
Just back from the pond. Iíve actually got water coming out the overflow pipe. Still frozen over. This is the longest Iíve ever had it iced over. No snow on the ice, so I think the fish are ok. I hope so anyway. Going to be 18 here tonight and in the 20s at night for the next two weeks. I donít think the ice is going anywhere.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 02/14/19 01:03 PM

Originally Posted By: John Fitzgerald
The pictures make it look like there is not enough watershed, unless there is much more past the bottoms of the pictures.
John, most of the watershed area is above the little sediment pond. Of the 7 acres of watershed I have, probably around 4 acres or more are above the sediment pond. I'm sure a little water seeps down to the pond from up there, but I haven't seen it run off from up there since last March. It's came close to filling up the sediment pond a few times since then, and was right there last week and I thought it was going to start flowing from the sediment pond, but no such luck. Lol! Another half inch of rain and it would of been flowing. Lol! Things are wet enough right now that a good size rain would give me a lot of run off. I really need to get him out here and work on my upper watershed so I can get better run off.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 02/14/19 01:14 PM

Jeff, glad to hear your pond is full!I hope I can say the same one day. Lol! I'll be glad when all this ice stuff is over. Lol!
Posted by: SetterGuy

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/30/19 10:17 PM

Bob, you getting some of this? 2Ē+ here in St Louis. Of course, .6 up north, but I. Hoping youíre getting a lot of runoff with this.
Jeff
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/31/19 12:28 AM

Thanks Jeff, I got about 1.6". I finally got a little run off from the upper water shed, but it was near the end of the rain when it started flowing out of the sediment pond. At about 4:30 when I checked it last, the rain had been stopped for an hour or so but it was still trickling in, so I'm hoping it will come up a little more yet. So far it was up about 13" from this rain. The big question is how much it will soak up. lol! It was holding pretty good for a while there, very little drop, until a few weeks ago when I'm guessing the ground started thawing out and it started soaking up a lot again, which I figured it was going to. Right now it's the highest it's ever been, at a little over 11'.
Posted by: SetterGuy

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/31/19 09:36 AM

Well, I would have thought youíd have been running out the spillway. Seemed like yesterdayís rain was never going to end. Looks like lore rain in the forecast.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 03/31/19 09:06 PM

Jeff, I wish. lol! I was surprised to get as much as I did out of 1.60" of rain. It cam up another 4" over night for a total of about 17". Still not what I call a gully washer, which it's been a full year now since I've had one of those. If I would of got 3"-4" I'd call it a gully washer, but I still don't think that would of filled it, but might of got close. Hopefully I'll get some more good rains while things are still wet enough to give me some good run off.

The FHM seem to be liking the Optimal, and are feeding better all the time. They even feed pretty good today after the rain and a big temp drop.
Posted by: SetterGuy

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 05/02/19 10:37 PM

Bob,
Are you full yet? Been thinking weíve had enough rain to fill all the ponds in eastern MO. My pond up by Mark Twain Lake is running out the overflow pipe. Weíve had almost twice the rain down in StLouis. Hope your pond is full!
Jeff
Posted by: Jimmi

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 05/02/19 11:11 PM

This is just about the wettest winter I can recall. I'm about 15 miles south of Bob and my pond hasn't stop running except for a hand full of days all winter - and that's with a 1/2" per day leak to boot. I wish it'd dry up enough to get the tractor in there. I've got a lot of work I need to do. As soon as it stops raining I'm sure I'll be cussing that too! LOL
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 05/03/19 12:25 AM

I know it sounds crazy with all the rain we've had in the area, but I never seem to get as much as most in the area. Channel 2 said they got about 1 1/3" today, I only got 1/2". Yesterday I think they said they had got about 2 1/2" since Monday, I only got about 1.6". That's the way it always seems to be for me. This week is the most I've had in about a month. I've had lots of small rains, but not one big one all year. Most of the rains I've got has only raised the pond 1"-3" at a time.
Then on another sad note, every since it came up a few feet higher than it's ever been and ground thawed out, it's been dropping more per day than it was and hasn't showed much sign of slowing down. Hopefully it will start holding better again soon.
It's only a little higher than it's ever been right now, so this spring has been a big disappointment for me so far. I need to get 5"-6" of rain in one week, not over a whole month, at a 1/2" or so at a time. lol!
Posted by: SetterGuy

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 05/03/19 06:43 AM

Iím sorry to hear that. Weíve already had about 20Ē in St Louis this year. Thatís way above normal. Half that at my place, but still enough to keep it running out the overflow pipe. I hope you get that big gully washer soon.
Jeff
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 05/03/19 11:49 PM

Thanks Jeff, I thought you was getting more rain up north, with all the flooding going on up north. Every time I see the flood water around here, it drives me crazy trying to figure out how to get some of it in my pond. lol!
I'm still waiting for the guy to come out and work on my water shed, so I can get better run off.
My biggest concern right now is it isn't holding as well as it was, now that it has new ground going under water for the first time. If it doesn't start holding better after a while, I may try some SoilFloc.
I was really hoping to start stocking by now, and have been trying to decide if I want to take a chance and do some stocking.
Posted by: SetterGuy

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 05/04/19 09:17 AM

According to Climate.com. Weíve had 20.3Ē at our place in St. Louis, and 12.7Ē up by Mark Twain Lake. So I did exaggerate a little. I think Iím getting a lot more runoff this year because the guy renting my acres up on the farm switched from alfalfa to soy beans. The beans are out, he no tills the ground, so most of what comes down, runs off. The alfalfa wasnít as generous.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 05/13/19 12:07 AM

I've inched my way up to about 12.5' now. I really thought I'd have more by now, and was hoping to have more before stocking, but didn't want to miss out on another growing season so I went ahead and put in some BG and RES yesterday so I'd have something besides FHM in it. Most of the FHM from last year's spawns are getting pretty big now and doing great on the Optimal.
Posted by: SetterGuy

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 05/13/19 06:35 AM

Alright Bob! 12.5í is getting there. This is the wettest spring in a long time. Iím wondering up at my place what the date is when the farmers throw in the towel and just donít bother to plant anything? I think if they were able to work fields the seeds wouldnít come up anyway. Just mold in the ground.
How about a pic? Glad itís getting there.
Jeff
Posted by: Redonthehead

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 05/13/19 05:15 PM

Originally Posted By: SetterGuy
Iím wondering up at my place what the date is when the farmers throw in the towel and just donít bother to plant anything? I think if they were able to work fields the seeds wouldnít come up anyway. Just mold in the ground.


In west central MO the "Prevent Plant" date for corn is May 28th with crop insurance. So if you have bought crop insurance and its been too wet to plant corn by May 28th, you have the option to file a claim. Its not a "get rich" payment, but will keep you from loosing your arse.

How is your water clarity running this spring? IIRC you had Rainman treat it with alum a couple of years ago?
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 05/13/19 10:37 PM

Here is a few pic.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 05/13/19 11:17 PM

Jeff, it still has a pretty long way to go yet but at least I can't get it all in one picture from the dam anymore. lol!
I was talking to a guy last week that said if he couldn't plant soon, he wouldn't be planting at all.
Posted by: SetterGuy

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 05/14/19 06:43 PM

Itís getting there. I think more rain tonight.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 05/15/19 10:57 PM

Jeff, I did get some rain last night, about .15" so not much help, but a little. lol! I seen on the news that I have some more chances coming up. I'm still hoping for a big one before the ground dries out, and I can still get good run off.
I ordered a bag of Optimal Junior last night to try. Last time I got the Starter #4, which I still have a fair amount of. I plan to throw some of both out and see what they like.
Posted by: SetterGuy

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 05/16/19 10:14 AM

Now they say Tuesday for the next chance. The guy farming our place just sprayed roundup to knock down the weeds. Heís planning on planting beans next week. Hoping all the roundup doesnít end up in my pond.. (Its a big part of my drainage.)
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 05/16/19 11:23 PM

Jeff, lets hope you don't get enough rain to get any run off for a while.
Posted by: John Fitzgerald

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 05/21/19 07:35 PM

Bob, did you get a big rain? Pond level?
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 05/21/19 11:26 PM

John, no big rains yet, and it's been dropping for over a week now.. I got a small one last night, that didn't help much, but better than nothing. I'm getting a bigger one tonight, not sure how much I'm getting yet. It rained hard for 20 minutes or so, at around 7pm, and has been raining off and on since. I hope it will be big enough to help.
Posted by: SetterGuy

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 05/22/19 08:50 AM

We had 2Ē in St Louis, and it came down in about 5 minutes. Crazy weather. I hope you got some good runoff from it.

Iíve had 3Ē up at the farm since our renter sprayed round up on the weeds, so he could get beans in. Pretty sure a fair amount of the roundup is in our pond. Going up this weekend to see whatís happened. I canít imagine theyíll be planting anything up there, and more rain forecasted for Sat and Sun..
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 05/22/19 11:56 AM

Jeff, I only got about 1.12" last night. I didn't get much run off, maybe 3". My upper watershed has been drying up for a while now, so it's going to take a big rain or a lot of small ones close together for me to get much run off. For a while it was wet enough that I had a small trickle going in all the time, but never could get a good rain after it got that way,only small ones. It stopped trickling in about a week ago. Maybe one of these days. Lol!
Posted by: John Fitzgerald

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 05/22/19 07:37 PM

Bob, as much rain as your area has been getting, your pond really should be full by now. It should not take a huge flood to fill a pond.

Something must be wrong with the area of your watershed.

I only have about 1.5 acres of watershed for two 1/4 acre ponds, and the leaky one has been full six times since late 2015, and the other one about 10 times. Mine is only about 3:1 on watershed, and no major problems. My watershed consists mostly of tall grassy hayfields and a little bit of brushy areas.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 05/22/19 11:58 PM

John, I think I have a few things working against me. For one, I almost never seem to get as much rain as most in my area. The only thing I can think of with that, is the area I'm in is known for being very hilly with very tall steep hills, and I'm thinking maybe it causes some kind of turbulence that makes the rain go around me. Wells are 600'+ in my area. As for my watershed, most of it is thick woods with very thick under growth. I'm still waiting for my guy to come out and work on it so I can get better run off. Then every time it comes up to a new level, it soaks up a lot of water (or looses it) before it starts holding better, and right now it seems to be taking longer about it than it was. I'm sure if it would hold as tight as a drum, without soaking up so much first, it would be full by now.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 05/23/19 02:30 PM

John, some good examples are late last night-early morning I got about .75" of rain. On the news this morning, they said areas around 10 miles or so away got 1"-3". Tuesday night I got about 1.12" and less than 20 miles from me got 2". We've had a lot of rain in the area, put it has been mostly spotty, at least for me.lol!
Posted by: roundy

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 05/23/19 02:45 PM

My pond was slow filling also. I ended up putting a dry dam in the next draw over and running an 8" pipe over to the pond. Basically doubled my watershed and filled in 6 months.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 05/23/19 11:58 PM

Roundy, I don't have any areas I could do that. The only thing like that, that I could do is try to pump from my old silted in pond that is only 2'-3' deep when full, but I'd have to pump about 400' up an over a 50' or so high hill. Access is poor so it wouldn't be easy. It doesn't hold a lot so I would probably need to be able to pump it pretty fast while it's raining to get much out of it. I will probably have to wait till we move onto the property to bother trying it. Another thing I worry about doing that, is pumping bad things over from the old pond, it already has a lot of duckweed in it.
On another note, I have about a 1 1/2" baby painted turtle that showed up in the pond a few days ago.
Posted by: John Fitzgerald

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 05/24/19 12:41 PM

Bob,
We get the same thing; bypassed by rains, likely due to a ridge to the south and west that rises about 750 feet above our valley. We still receive enough rain to fill the ponds, even though it's frequently less than surrounding areas, especially south of that ridge.
Posted by: gehajake

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 05/24/19 03:23 PM

Here in central MO we have had an unbelievable abundance of rain, the new pond I built I figured would be a couple years getting full, it just started collecting water in mid Feb and is about 6 ft from being full, with about an 8 to 1 ratio in drainage acres to acre of water, Ive got well over 20 ft of water in it now.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 05/25/19 12:05 AM

Gehajake,I see them talking on the news about all the rain out your way. I don't think I've got more than 1.5" in 24 hours all year. If you bump it up to about 30 hours or so, I might of got close to 2". I don't think I've got more than 2" or so in 48 hours all year.
Posted by: John Fitzgerald

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 05/25/19 11:46 PM

I checked records. In the past year, we have received 11 rains of one inch or more. Only one 24 hour rainfall was over two inches, at 2.28 inches. Most were simply "grass growing rains", with no runoff. Yet, my new 1/4 acre pond has stayed mostly full or near full, with approximately a 2:1 watershed.

Our total for the year is 50.81 inches at my station, but the average rain was small.
Posted by: SetterGuy

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 05/26/19 09:01 AM

Year to date numbers, according to climate dot com. St. Louis = 24.5Ē, our place up by Center MO 17.5Ē. It was running 2:1 with St Louis getting twice as much, but the farm has been catching up. My water is the brownest itís ever been, except when it was filled.
Posted by: snrub

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 05/26/19 02:08 PM

We have had about a foot 8n the Last week.
Posted by: John Fitzgerald

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 05/26/19 09:53 PM

Originally Posted By: SetterGuy
Year to date numbers, according to climate dot com. St. Louis = 24.5Ē, our place up by Center MO 17.5Ē. It was running 2:1 with St Louis getting twice as much, but the farm has been catching up. My water is the brownest itís ever been, except when it was filled.


Climate dot com is only about 70-80% accurate when compared to my official "CoCoRahs" reporting gauge. I guess Climate.com is OK if it's all one has.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 05/27/19 12:05 AM

John, I think I've got a couple inches less Than what Jeff posted. Sounds like you been getting around double what I've been getting. My pond might be full if I had gotten 50" of rain already this year. lol! Wow that's a lot of rain, I wish I could get that much.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 05/27/19 12:14 AM

Originally Posted By: snrub
We have had about a foot 8n the Last week.
I'd be happy if I could get half that much. lol!
They just said on the news that St. Louis got .96 this morning, I'm about 20 miles south of St. Louis and I didn't even get enough to get a reading. lol!
Posted by: John Fitzgerald

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 05/27/19 11:23 AM

Originally Posted By: Bobbss
John, I think I've got a couple inches less Than what Jeff posted. Sounds like you been getting around double what I've been getting. My pond might be full if I had gotten 50" of rain already this year. lol! Wow that's a lot of rain, I wish I could get that much.


Bob, that 50" was in the past 365 days, not for 2019 so far.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 05/27/19 11:32 PM

John, I sure thought that sounded like a lot of rain. lol!
Yesterday I saw the first FHM fry of the year. Today I saw another turtle, much bigger than the other one. I hope I don't get to many of them. lol!
Posted by: SetterGuy

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 05/28/19 10:16 AM

The painted turtles are really migrating right now in MO. I was out and about all weekend, and saw several. A few snappers, but mostly painted turtles. (The flat ones) they may not actually be ďpaintedĒ turtles. Glad your FHM are doing well. Mine have totally disappeared. At one time I thought I had too many!
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 05/28/19 11:25 AM

Jeff, we went to the farm till Sunday afternoon, it's near St. James. I saw a lot of turtles on the back roads. I think I saw more snappers than anything. The farm is on the river, and there are lots of ponds in the area. We have 2, that I would put more effort into but they only want to go down there a few times a year.
I did see a few BG feeding with the FHM this morning. I thought I'd seen some before, but today was the first time I was sure.
Posted by: John Fitzgerald

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 05/28/19 04:02 PM

The FHM will disappear within a year of stocking LMB or SMB. Mine have. The Gambusia are still plentiful in the newer pond, don't know how they survive with hordes of small LMB.
Posted by: John Fitzgerald

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 05/30/19 10:52 AM

Bob,
Did you get more rain? We had 1.94 inches yesterday, but it took all day, and part of the evening. Old leaker is now only down 10 inches, and newer pond is overflowing again.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 05/30/19 12:57 PM

John, St. Louis got just under a inch again, I got a .10". I just can't get a break. Lol!
Posted by: John Fitzgerald

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 05/30/19 09:00 PM

In 2019 so far: we received exactly 24.5" at our place.
Posted by: Mike Whatley

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 05/30/19 09:20 PM

We got 2.75 inches here today in less than an hour. 16 days since we had any recordable amounts, but that brings my YTD total to 29".
Posted by: Pat Williamson

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 05/30/19 10:26 PM

3-3/8Ē last nite!
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 05/30/19 10:50 PM

I'll be honest, I'm in shock that I haven't had one rain that big all year.
Posted by: SetterGuy

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 05/31/19 07:38 AM

I am too Bob. This is like 1993 as far as the amount of rainfall is concerned. Weíve had about 20Ē at the farm. 25Ē here in St Louis. Two more inches in the last few days up north.
You may want to look at drilling a well. Especially if you are going to build a home overlooking the pond.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 05/31/19 03:37 PM

Jeff, I probably won't be able to do anything until we build, but I do plan on trying to up size the well pump when we do, so I can feed the pond some.
Posted by: John Fitzgerald

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 06/04/19 08:06 PM

Bob, it looks like you are getting some rain at your pond right now. 6/4/19 at 7:05 PM.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 06/04/19 09:41 PM

John, I did just get a little but not much. On the news, the radar looked like I was going to get more, but it was more thunder than rain and didn't last long. I haven't been out to check the rain gauge yet, but looking out the window, I don't see any puddles. This morning on the news, they said I should see 2"-4" from today thru Sunday. I won't hold my breath. lol! My ground is already getting pretty dry, and will take a good rain to give me much in the pond.
I had about a 12" snapper at the pond today, but looked like he was leaving, I hope. lol!
Posted by: SetterGuy

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 06/05/19 08:21 AM

Bob, If this keeps up you might have the only ground above water in Missouri. Everywhere is flood flood flood... My renter went ahead and planted beans yesterday. He said it wasnít pretty, but they are in. Iím just hoping now that they donít rot in the ground. More rain coming. Looks like for the next two weeks at least.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 06/05/19 01:34 PM

Jeff, you may be right. Lol! I see the flood waters every day going to work and back and it drives me crazy watching it get higher every day, while my pond gets lower every day. Lol!
I got about .12" of rain last night, even less than I thought it would be. Lol!
The only good thing I can say, is the pond keeps getting clearer, the longer it goes without any real rain. Lol!
Posted by: John Fitzgerald

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 06/05/19 05:41 PM

Bob, I don't know what to say. You may need to doze those woods away, and pack the ground like a parking lot to get enough run off in a small watershed. cool
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 06/05/19 10:54 PM

John, you may be right. lol! I wasn't planning to go that far, but I am waiting for my guy to come out and do some clearing and whatever else he can to get me more run off, without making to big of a mess or costing to much.
I'm getting more rain tonight, not sure how much but I know I've got more than last night.
I still don't have a lot of the BG coming up to feed, but I'm getting more about every day. Last week I only had a few, today it might of been as many as 2 or 3 dozen. Now when I walk up you can see them watching for me to feed them.
Posted by: gehajake

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 06/06/19 07:32 AM

Weather man says we have had about 29" so far in 2019 here in central, Boone County, MO, has been kinda weird tho, the last week or so it has been going around Boone county, counties to the North and South received a good bit more then we did.
That being said, one doesnt have to travel very far here to reach the flood waters for the Mo River, devastating to a huge part of this area. Creating major changes to the eco system of the river, and anything along its banks, getting close to 93 flood levels, has already reached it in places.
Posted by: John Fitzgerald

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 06/06/19 09:20 AM

We received 0.34" rain overnight, with little run off. Typical small rains that only delay the haying further, being already 3-4 weeks behind.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 06/06/19 01:45 PM

I got about .80" last night. It gave me about 1.25" in the pond. A month ago that much rain would of probably gave me double or more in the pond.
This morning they backed it down to maybe another 1" of rain by Sunday.
The Mississippi has everything backed up around here. The way I understand, it is mostly from the rains up north.
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 09/16/19 11:38 PM

My pond guy finally made it out Saturday and worked on my watershed. He didn't get as much clearing done as I was hoping for, but I think it should help a lot. He spent about half the day clearing some areas above the sediment pond, there is a lot more that can be done there. I think the biggest help will be that he spent the other half the day cutting a channel that wrapped around to the other side of the hill. It will dump in just down from the dam.Today I looked on a property viewer website that lets me measure acreage, and it looks like I added around 2 acres to my watershed. Another good thing is a lot of it had been cleared before for a power line running to a 911 tower, and the wooded part is more open than most of my woods. I'm sure my water will be getting muddy for a while, but it will be worth it if it starts filling faster. Now I probably won't get any rain. lol!
Posted by: SetterGuy

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 09/17/19 08:19 AM

Bob,
I sure hope that helps! My pond has dropped about 18Ē. We havenít had a measurable rain in over a month up north. Itís the same old thing. My renters beans look pretty weak. Iím hoping we get some rain soon, or he will lose money.
The good news for me is the deer have been hammering the bean plants, so there should be a lot of them around come November. smile
Posted by: Bobbss

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. - 09/17/19 09:51 AM

Thanks Jeff, July and August gave me my best rain falls of the year. September hasn't given me much of anything so far, just over a half inch.
I hope you get some up your way soon. I think there is a chance of some rain coming in the area in 4 or 5 days.