I am trying to create a northern style pond. The pond of choice is probably 1/5 of an acre in size, but is extremely rocks and has many boulders. Visibility is between 5-10 feet usually and the lake is about 13 feet deep. There is a large gravel hump in the middle which comes up about 5 ft below the surface. I was thinking about cleaning out the few fish in it and putting some smb, we, yp, white sucker, white perch, rock bass and some forage like golden shiner and crayfish. In order to get some good spawning i need to add gravel but ik there is already some in the lake. Once the lake is established i might add some white cats or cc. I have five ponds to play with but this one seems best for my northern pond. I am not sure what will spawn and what won't, but some people say walleye on rare occasions can. Any help is great.

if you have 5 ponds I would not mix several aggressive predators in the same 1/5 acre pond. SMB, WE and catfish in the same small body of water are going to create issues. If you want a walleye pond then let the walleye be the predator and pick your food chain under the walleye. If you have to have a catfish pond then realize the catfish will out-predator the other predators. SO that may be a stock and catch pond.

Walleye need running water over gravel substrate to spawn. Think a creek flowing into a lake. Some have had walleye reproduction, some have created water movement with a circulating pump. Others can speak to that better than I.

Catfish can find a way to spawn, with or without a cavity but usually if you want spawn/young you give them a cavity to spawn in.

Since you have 5 ponds to work with, I'd take your time and create your forage base first, then add YP or panfish of choice being careful that your panfish choice matches your apex predator. For example northern bluegill (or even hybrid bluegill) are going to overpopulate if you only have WE as your predator.

Thanks for the fast response. I am not to concerned with walleye at the moment and they will only be if i can find them at a hatchery. I am more concerned with the perch, smb and rock bass. I am in no rush and am just thinking about what i could do. I will probably end up dedicating another pond to catfish once i can control the weeds in three of them. The other to have little or no algae. I think the catfish in there right now spawn in between the boulders. Thanks canyon creek.

sure, so for the 1/5th acre pond if you want to do perch (do you mean yellow perch or do you mean 'perch' as a generic name for panfish?) plus SMB and rock bass that can work. What is in that pond already? You said you wanted to clean out the few fish that are in it. Do you plan to drain pond and manually remove all fish (that is the preferred way and some still can survive) or chemical purge?

IF you have time and can pump it down, pump it dry, give it a week or longer to be sure everything is dead or change the pH by adding caustic lime to be sure everything is dead. Your stocking plan will go awry if you find out that some prior fish (especially if they are bluegill) made it through the fish removal stage. Best to start with a clean slate.

The chemical kill will also destroy some of your food chain as it will kill invertebrates, scuds, shrimp if you have them and crayfish. You would then spend some time recreating the food chain before (or while) you add the small stocking YP, rockbass etc. The more and the more diverse the food chain in many ways, the better the mid-level fish will survive.

also read in the threads here about SMB spawning. If you are hoping you can create conditions for that then while the pond is empty (or drawn down a long ways) you have an opportunity to create the ideal SMB spawning structure. IT apparently is a very specific love nest that SMB prefer.

Thanks that was very useful. And when I said perch i was referring to yellow perch as i don't think white perch would be a good idea? When i say i can catch all the fish in the pond, i mean it. There are a few catfish and bass, but the rest are hybrid bluegill which don't spawn much at all. The pond does have a release valve for drainage but i don't think it'll be necessary. The ponds were poorly stocked to begin with, but they will work. Do you have any ideas about how walleye get along with smb/lmb? And also if i can setup the perfect spawning habitats for walleye to spawn, what are my odds of success ( again this is just curiosity because i have a few ponds to experiment with) Do you also have experience with white sucker and rock bass? they seem like good forage for walleye or smb. I am just thinking about what i could do to manage my ponds

And also if i added some small catfish later on would they ruin the whole system? idc to much to add them they just seem to do fine with lmb but ig smb are different

And also if i added some small catfish later on would they ruin the whole system? idc to much to add them they just seem to do fine with lmb but ig smb are different

And one more thing: Do smb like snails? the there must be a few thousand as i have caught them before on hooks! And would another good species to add be res?

Lots of variables here. I have only one pond so I learned from the good people on this forum that if you had bluegill of ANY type that you needed predators that could keep up with them (mainly LMB, nothing else). Likewise, the LMB spawn so fast that they needed BG to keep enough spawns going per season to feed the hungry LMB.

You have a luxury. You have multiple ponds so can do multiple 'balance experiments'. The 'few BG' that 'don't spawn much at all' is going to wreck your balance. The HBG don't spawn as much as standard BG, but the next generation will include hybrid becoming NON-hybrid green sunfish since the parent to HBG are greensunfish. The green sunfish will become another 'predator' and really tip your balance and make it hard to get back.

So if you want a unique northern pond stocking plan then I would first FIND OUT if you have ANY LMB. ANY....!! Don't rely on catching them with hook and line.

If you figure it is a crazy mix of fish already and you want to keep it that way then i wouldn't stock anything until you know what is in there. Build or buy cages and start trapping. See what size classes of fish you have. Seine the pond.

But if it was me (and I'm only one relatively inexperienced non-expert), I would use your drain valve. It will rapidly get the water down, which makes it easier to use a seine net and dip net to get your fish out. Sort them, if you have desirables you can either put in cages in one of your other ponds for later restocking, or you can put the catfish in another pond that is later going to be a catfish pond etc. Minnows can be put in any of your other ponds. Maybe you decide to keep all your YP in a holding cage till you are ready.

Then plan your current pond. If it is SMB, YP only then make sure you have only those species. Then add lots of forage sorting EVERY FISH BY HAND to be sure you don't tip the balance the wrong way again. If the SMB and YP plus some healthy minnows become a balance that you like, then you you can add a walleye or two for fun but you will be in control. Research if Tilapia are allowed, they are a fun forage fish, often available from a local aquaponics outfit.

Experiment with the CC in another pond.

I don't read much about rock bass on this forum. I assume you will catch those in another lake and transport to your lake? Someone else will have to tell you about their spawning, their ability to exist alongside SMB and YP etc. I have not heard much negative about them.

I bet others would have good advice too.

For snails, depending on your winters and your latitude, RES may not survive. Pumpkinseed are the preferred northern fish to eat snails. A few fish farms in the midwest have them. Not sure how to source them by you. But if you can get RES they have many advantages in a small pond.

In my pond, YP have effectively reduced the snail population to a very low point, or have eliminated them altogether.

10 years ago we had few perch and lots of snails. I've hammered down the LMB to the point where I rarely catch one. I also added more perch. For several years perch had many snails in their bellies; now I don't clean a perch and find a snail in it.

The pond has way too much elodea which should be wonderful snail habitat. When I rake out the elodea each summer, I do not find snails on the weeds.

I'd like to introduce pumpkinseed sunfish (PS), but I have no source for these beautiful fish.

My conclusion is the YP have wreaked havoc on the snails.

Yes res get to be a few a pounds. It is clear now that to achieve this i am going to need to drain the pond. I have a lot of minnows that are breeder size in other ponds that i might move to this one. Thanks for the help. I am in virginia so pumpkinseed are hard to come by unless bucket stocked (suckers and rock bass are going to have to be stocked like this but the river is clean and i won't bet on them thriving). Would it be risky to preform something like this? And what about doing it for smb? My biggest fear is spending a lot of money on fish and having one of my two pound bluegills eat all of them for i can't completely drain the pond. I am going to try and stock adult sizes in everything except smb and perch. Thanks again for the help

Fish from outside sources can be vectors of parasites and bacteria that can reek havoc on established populations, and there is questionable legality in some states when moving from public waters. They also aren't suited to a pond environment and have trouble getting by in ponds with established predator populations. Fish from hatcheries have traits that have been selected over time for use in ponds. SMB and established bluegill populations do not co-exist without intensive management of the bluegills.

northcooper, for this 1/5 acre pond, are you planning to feed pellets?

If so, I would say that greatly expands your realm of possibilities.

I was not going to feed pellets I do not nave the time for that unfortunately. I do not want to bucket stock and I found a source near me that sells smb walleye and yp so that is a start. I just want a fun project to work on. This is one of three ponds that are blank canvases. There aren’t really any good populations of fish. My other ponds produce some nice fish but I am worried about them
as well. Thanks for the help

Not sure what your plans are going forward but if you decide to drain, nuke are start from scratch I'd say that's your best bet for success. When the time comes you can start with FHM in the spring, 3-4lbs maybe. Come fall you could stock some YP, Like 35-50 6-8" and 75 4-6". You'll have a perch spawn the following spring if things are right. You could also stock 15-20 SMB at this same time in the 5-7" size. A few WAE could be stocked the next fall and normally should be at the least 7-8"

If you want a cool water species fishery Kenny's advice above is spot on

Yes

Thanks everyone. I will probably go with snipes plan and i might add some golden shiners. The lake is very rocky so i think the perch smb and walleye will like it