Beautiful fish! Are they GSF x RES Hybrid?
Did you buy the hybrids or produce them yourself? Either way very nice looking fish. The BG parents appeared to be premium brood stock.
Those gillcrackers are a blast on light tackle. Very nice fish!
Bill I was told they were crossed with a male Blue Gill.
Bill I purchased them from Logan Hollow Fish Farm. I am very pleased with them. They spawned the very first year, and have taken to feed starting last year.
Bill I was told they were crossed with a male Blue Gill.
Agreed, they look like a BG x RES cross to me. Love catching those. The F1's are however, heavily male biased. Some sources put it at 97% male. I do think they will backcross readily with the parental species.
Growing nicely is an understatement.
I have no blue gill in my pond, but I do have regular RES in it. I saw spawning beds the first year. I did catch a couple of small ones in a trap last year. I suppose the regular RES could have been what I saw spawning.
As they are F1s and mostly males, is it possible Steve was seeing at least a few F1s spawning with the RES females?
Do the F1s have the Pharyngeal teeth like the RES?
Do the F1s have the Pharyngeal teeth like the RES?
Yes they do.
I agree, I think they are bluegill/redear hybrids.
No GSF that I can tell, no colors on the fin margins.
I'm 99% certain of BRES, too.
Consider a tray scale - one used to weigh food. They are reliable, accurate and cheap at any big box store, and might be a little easier on your trophy fish. I keep mine in a ziplock freezer bag to keep it dry, and weigh fish in a colander and just tare it out. Just a thought - now I'm not implying that I feel weighing fish by hanging causes any injuries or stress, I just err on the side of caution when I'm handling my special fish [and those are some real trophies!]. I've dropped a few using my old Rapala hand held scale - but hopefully you're not prone to accidents like I am.
Those are just gorgeous fish, congrats on a great job.
So what is everyone's opinion on this fish. Female BRES or Female RES. Also having no BG in the pond, and the BRES and the RES cross spawning, I will eventually end up having only RES correct? Also with the BRES spawning with each other is there a chance they will convert back to BG?
What is the meaning of a HRES (hybrid RES?) isn't that the same as a BRES (bluegill x RES)? Is this a female? Beautiful fish!
Yes BRES sorry. I am not sure, My guess is it's a female BRES. There is so many variation of colors, not always sure how to tell the the BRES and the RES apart.
My guess is a male BG x RES cross.
My guess is a male BG x RES cross.
+1, male BRES - appears heavily skewed towards BG genetics too, could it be a F2 backcross with BG - BBRES? Eric/Tony?
Any BRES that you catch that you think is female take a picture and then fillet it and verify the sex and improve your learning of male vs female. IMO You should be periodically adding a some new BRES hybrids to keep the integrity of your population.
Thanks Bill, I was wondering if I should restock a few every once in awhile.
It could be a backcross, it's just so hard to tell with all the diversity common to lepomis hybrids, at least for me. Lots of variables involved even within crosses that are definitively known, that influence appearance.
I will say that two years ago I happened to be at the right place and time to witness a male BRES in a courtship dance with a female BG. A few days later I saw the same fish guarding fry in his nest. I suppose a female RES could've visited the nest also, but either way it appeared to me that the MBRES had successfully spawned. I have no way of knowing if this union resulted in recruitment, but it's an interesting question.
Great fish.
Surprising more fish farms don't use this cross for hybrid BG.
Added this thread to
RES info and links. Another thread on BGxRES hybrids.
BGxRES hybrids
Those bottom two fish sure exhibit a lot of BG characteristics - and are they ever amazing. Doing incredible things over there, congrats!
BG X RES cross of some %. All very nice but some minor differences exhibited in them.
FYI Childers research
HYBRIDIZATION OF FISHES IN NORTH AMERICA
(FAMILY CENTRARCHIDAE)
by
W.F. CHILDERS
Illinois Natural History Survey
Urbana, Illinois
U.S.A.
4.1 Sex Ratios of F1 hybrids
Sexually mature F1 hybrids were collected from each population and sexed. Of the 10 kinds of viable F1 hybrids, seven were predominately males (RB, BR, and BG were 97 percent males; WG were 84 percent males; and RG, GB, and BW were approximately 70 percent males), two were approximately 50 percent males (GR and RW), and one was predominately female (GW was 16 percent males). Ricker (1948) determined the sex of 428 BR F1 hybrids in Indiana and found them to be 97.7 percent males.
In this paper R refers to red-ear sunfish, B to bluegill, G to green sunfish, and W to warmouth. Matings between individuals of different species are designated to P1 crosses and the resultant hybrids are designated as F1 hybrids. F2 hybrids are those produced by mating an F1 male with an F1 female. The P1 cross of a male bluegill with a female green sunfish is designated B × G and the resultant hybrids are designated BG F1 hybrids; GB F1 designates the reciprocal hybrids.
4.2 Reproductive success of hybrids
The reproductive success of each of the 10 kinds of viable F1 hybrids was investigated in one or more ponds. The occurrence and abundance of F2 hybrids were determined by seining, trapping, shocking, poisoning or draining the ponds after the F1 hybrids were one or more years of age. RB, BR, and BG failed to produce abundant F2 generations when in ponds which contained no other species of fishes. In contrast to these results, BR F1 hybrids produced abundant F2 generations in two ponds in Indiana (Ricker 1948). The other seven kinds of F1 hybrids produced abundant F2 populations when stocked in ponds containing no other fishes. Three of the seven kinds of F1 hybrids which produced large F2 populations when stocked in ponds containing no other fishes were also stocked in ponds with largemouth bass. RG F1 hybrids and GB F1 hybrids, when stocked with largemouth bass, produced only a few F2 hybrids. No F2 hybrids were found in the pond stocked with BW F1 hybrids and largemouth bass. WG F2 hybrids and GW F2 hybrids were stocked in ponds containing no other fishes. Both of these F2 hybrids produced large F3 populations.
I know of a hatchery here in Indiana that *might* have some BRES of superior genetics in a few years.....
I heard rumors of Condello BG/RES hybrids being attempted.....
With the Optimal BG food being eaten by both BG and RES, just think what those fish would look like in 2-3-4 years??
I've raised BRES, they were fun, just didn't have a market for them, probably should have thought of that before dedicating 6 months of labor to them. Still, was worth it...pretty important to ensure sex of the BG and RES, though, of course. I had a significant population of pure RES as I accidentally slipped one male RES with the females. Ooops. Still ended up with probably 750 BRES hybrids - they are growing but have noticed less tendency to feed train than straight BG at least in my personal experience. Sounds like many others have zero problems getting them to feed train...story of my life.
Thanks TJ. I think I had a little luck involved in mine taking to feed. I was feeding the bait fish the first year when I put them in and they make so much noise feeding it drew the BRES in also. Now when I drive up on the 4 wheeler the bait fish start hitting the top of the water, the frogs are lined up on the bank, and the BRES are there waiting. The BRES are really aggressive eaters. They will explode on top of the water and their backs and side will be completely out of the water. I thought maybe the YP would start to feed but I have yet to see any. Occasionally a SMB will make a pass through for a minnow.
Very cool - keep posting photos of those BRES please - sounds like a great fishery you've got going, nice work!
