I'm searching for a nice place for our family to be together for a vacation. I was sifting through pictures and found this lake nearby that has a setup that may work for us. As I flipped through pictures, this one came up.
What is the fish on the right? It has some darker speckled markings almost like a black crappie but the mouth isn't quite right. Seems to be a pretty big fish too! (the poor bass looks a bit under fed compared to the panfish in the foreground)
I don't know much about the lake size, structure, etc but from the available online pictures it looks to be about 120-150 acres, sandy bottom.
Hard to tell from the picture but it looks like a pumkinseed or a hybrid bluegill.
P-seed gets my vote also, but it's big for a pure seed.
Let me see if I can post the weblink and if you can connect to it to see it more clearly
Nice PSeed? Seems to have some lots of black speckles but bluegill mouth?
Very big for a pure PS and I see no orange on the opercular flap so I will guess PGS. Pumpkingill Sunfish.
To me it looks like a RES.
What state is it in?
I was thinking RES too till I saw he lives in Michigan and said the lake was nearby. I did not know RES flourished that far North?
Pumpkinseed for my guess,
I'm the biggest amateur in this area but my first guess was that it had at least some RES in it.
It is in a lake called Diamond lake near Whitecloud, MI. It actually is about 60 miles north of Grand Rapids.
I know there were RES stocking programs in lakes in SW and S central Michigan with DNR research papers available online about the success of such stocking. I have no idea if RES could be natural that far north.
I found that the lake is 240 acres.
It reminds of this type of HBG.
Same fish as above, closer look with different light.
was the link I posted male or female or can we tell?
Shorty, the fish you posted looks to me like what I would imagine a PS x GSF cross would look like. Do you know what it is/was?
CC, many hybrids are males, but that is certainly not always the case.
That lake is a bit far north for RES, but possible due to it's size. If it's close to lake Michigan (within 30 maybe 50 miles as the crow flies), there is a micro climate there that stays warmer than further inland in Michigan and RES can live further north close to the lake.
Sparkplug, the picture I posted should be a natural (non-standard hatchery - male GSF x female BG) BGXGSF cross based on the gill raker examination by a fisheries biologist and UNL fisheries professor.
Amazing. The differences from one BOW to another, and even within the same BOW, from one fish to the next. The opercular on Shorty's fish screams GSF, but the broken stripe pattern on the body just says PS to me. lots more to learn.
A classic PS from Minnesota:
It reminds of this type of HBG.
Same fish as above, closer look with different light.
I would have guessed PS/GSF hybrid also. If I could get HBG to look like that, I'd be much more apt to stock them. That is one beautiful fish.
This may help - lepomis id
I'll be honest, I've looked at that chart Ewest posted countless times since I joined the forum, and for the most part I find it no help where hybrids are concerned. Take for instance the photo Shorty posted, and apply the characteristics defined in the chart.
We're pretty sure that a GSF accounts for much of the genetic material in that fish, so mainly we need to ID the other half(?). The two most likely candidates appear to be BG, or PS. Check the chart, comparing BG to PS:
Mouth size....same
Pectoral fin....same
Gill Rakers.... short-stout vs. long-slender. What? All four of those descriptors are, in my opinion, extremely objective. I realize that folks who are vastly more educated than myself in this regard (of which there are a great and endless multitude), can probably differentiate between those four quite readily, but for us lay people, some sort of definition of these terms would be extremely helpful. Not to mention that in most cases the gill rakers are not even visible in the photo of the fish we are trying to identify.
Rear margin of bony gill cover....thick and inflexible, vs. thin and flexible. Is it even possible to determine that from a photo?
Ear flap....never prolonged, light border vs. entirely black. What happened to the red splotch commonly associated with P-seeds? And when a GSF exerts its influence into the hybridization process, the opercular is oftentimes altered dramatically, color wise, anyway.
Back and side coloration....we've discussed before how color is highly problematic when it comes to identification.
Belly coloration.... same argument, noting that the chart doesn't even differentiate between the orange belly of a male BG, (especially during the spawn) and the yellow belly of a female.
Other characteristics....wavy blue lines on cheek for P-seed, and black blotch at base of dorsal for BG. True, but once again the GSF influence often introduces wavy blue lines into the mix.
Hybrid identification among lepomids is tough..at least it is for me. And I understand that the gill raker observation is the most telling of all the markers on the chart, but for those many instances where all we have is a photo of a hybrid, what are we to do? Can anything conclusive, ID wise, ever be learned simply by studying a photo, or is it a case of taking your best guess?
Would it help if everyone shared what characteristics in the photo lead them to their conclusions, for critique by the more knowledgeable members?
(I should add that I appreciate your efforts, ewest. I just wish there was more info available for hybrid identification)
Thanks Shorty. I've spent an equal amount of time staring at those photos also. I wonder if any of those fish could be positively identified without checking gill rakers? If not, then is there any hope for identifying photos of hybrids in the absence of hands-on examination by an expert?
Expert examination of the gill rakers might get you close to a good answer but DNA testing is probably the only way to ever know with any certainty. Keep in mind that we never do get to see gill rakers in pictures, so it is just a guess anyway, but it is fun guessing.
These should help
GSF
GSF gill rakers
HBG
HBG (Bg x GSF) gill rakers
