Need Help Identifying Fish - Pond Boss Forum

I have a fairly large gully (15-20' wide and 1-4' deep) that is my north property boundary. It holds water all year and is flowing 90% of the time. It is the overflow drain for several large ponds that were dug as water reservoirs for sulfur mining and total to several hundred acre. I have seen BG, LMB and Gar along with other unidentified fish swimming in the gully.

I have been using minnow traps to catch small fish to see what is in the gully. I have been putting the BG in a small pond on the opposite side of my property than my 1.25 acre pond. It was dug for live stock watering in the early 90's with gentle slopes, max depth of 5-6' and is crystal clear. I have never seen any fish in the pond and do not know if it was ever stocked.

Here is a pic of the pond:

This is what the bottom looks like:

Here are the fish I caught yesterday in the minnow traps:

Fish 1:
These appear to be BG I caught 9 total:

Fish 2:
Another type of BG or just different coloration?

Fish 3:
I caught 3 of this type and can not figure out what it is:

I am not worried about the gully fish making their way into my big pond because the gully is, at the highest, 8' lower than the discharge of my standpipe which has a 3' riser.

Here are the last 3 that didn't load

BG , GSF and mixes (HBG). Don't know about the last type.

To me, the top pictures look like Warmouth. The 4th picture of 3 fish, the one on the right looks like a Warmouth, the 2 on the left look like they have some BG in them, although I think they might be some type of hybrid BG + "?" cross.

Adult warmouth are dark, with mottled brown coloration. Their belly is generally golden, and males have a bright orange spot at the base of the dorsal fin. Three to five reddish-brown streaks radiate from the eyes, and the gill flaps are often red. Warmouth have three spines in the anal fin, 10 spines in the dorsal fin, and small teeth are present on the tongue.

All of them look like they could use more food, look how big their eyes are in relationship to their body.

As for the last one, I ain't seen anything like that up here! (I have no idea what it is.)

According to my google fu, the last one is a "storm minnow" or "fat sleeper", aka Dormitator maculatus, pretty cool looking fish.

http://www.louisianasportsman.com/details.php?id=3339

Thanks for the input. I am stumped on the last fish. I was also thinking warmouth as they are common around here.

I noticed they looked underfed, I guess that is from living in a ditch. If they do good in the little pond that has lots of cover I may throw a handful of food to them to help them out.

Thanks! That is it:

Now for the important question.. would they be a good forage base to add start in the pond?

Quote:

Strange name for a little minnow don't ya' think. The bottom fish pictured is about 6 inches long but they can reach lengths of as much as two feet long!

Wow, that last one is unusual to me. I do see what I take to be Warmouth in some of those pics, although It seems that there could be a veritable smorgasbord of Lepomis species at work here.

I also noticed the eyes. Hungry fish.

Originally Posted By: drumz2129

Now for the important question.. would they be a good forage base to add start in the pond?

Hard to say, fat sleeper gobys certainly would be an unusual addition to a pond, it's not clear if they would be part of the forage base or a predator.

I did notice that one website was retailing them for $17.99 each as an aquarium fish and it sounds like they might be semi agressive if kept in an aquarium with other fish.

Originally Posted By: sprkplug

Wow, that last one is unusual to me. I do see what I take to be Warmouth in some of those pics, although It seems that there could be a veritable smorgasbord of Lepomis species at work here.

I also noticed the eyes. Hungry fish.

I did some quick research on it and it is an interesting little fish.

FROM: http://www.rodnreel.com/articles/articles.asp?cmd=view&StoryID=309

Quote:

Horst said not much is known about the "secret" lives of the storm minnow. But their arrival seems to coincide with the passage of a significant weather front and storm tide. Many others believe the storm minnows spend most of their lives isolated within holes in the marsh. When weather, water, temperature and tides are conducive for spawning, they leave the holes and join others in tightly-packed schools.

As a member of the Gobiidae family, the Dormitator macaluatus, which literally translates to "fat sleeper," is a species that is generally found from the Bahamas and North Carolina to Brazil, including the Gulf of Mexico. There are 22 species of storm minnow in the Gulf of Mexico alone. The male storm minnows can be strikingly beautiful, with dark-blue edges with black on the fins, and some dark green, pale blue and red colors.

During the period that they remain underground, the species remains dormant. Little is known about this mysterious fish and many biologists are reluctant to comment on them at all.

However, Knapik, who has observed the "migration" of storm minnows for many years, said they do not seem to travel that far.

"They don't come and go per se," he said. "They're out there in the mud right now, and they're not going to come out until everything is right."

Some anglers believe that a reason storm minnows are so attractive to trout and redfish is because of their colors. Storm minnows are also abundant, durable and resilient. They can breathe in water, or out of water, and need only to be kept moist to stay alive.

"As long as your pocket is wet, you can keep one alive in there all day," Kodrin said.

"The only way you can kill one is to leave it on the dock and let it dry out," Knapik said. "I know - I've tried. When they ship them they'll pack them in crab crates with wet grass or wet burlap bags on top of them."

Once, Knapik said he put 100 storm minnows in a wet oyster sack. Once or twice a day he would dump water on the sack of minnows. After three days, he said he only lost six minnows.

"And unlike a cocahoe, a storm minnow will stay on the top of the water when you're fishing with it," Knapik said. "And jump. If you think a mullet can jump, you should see a storm minnow. I never put more than two inches of water on top of them in a five-gallon bucket. If you do, you're going to have 50 minnows jumping on the deck of your boat."

Knapik said he has seen storm minnows actually climb out from underneath a net put over to cover them. And biologists explain.

"Some members of the Gobi family in other countries have developed amphibian-like characteristics and lifestyles," Horst said. "If you look at the ventral and pectoral fins, they're placed in such a manner to assist in locomoting."

"That's true," Kodrin said. "I saw it the other day. It's like they were trying to walk."

"They're amazing creatures," Knapik said. "They are the best baitfishes I've ever seen."

Originally Posted By: Shorty

Originally Posted By: drumz2129

Now for the important question.. would they be a good forage base to add start in the pond?

Hard to say, fat sleeper gobys certainly would be an unusual addition to a pond, it's not clear if they would be part of the forage base or a predator.

I did notice that one website was retailing them for $17.99 each as an aquarium fish and it sounds like they might be semi agressive if kept in an aquarium with other fish.

I think they would be on the slow side to be too much of a predator. For now I am going to keep adding them to my small livestock pond (minus the livestock) along with the BG/WM/GSF mixes that are coming out of the gully and see how they do there.

Fish 1: Are warmouth, which are very common in that type of habitat. A couple do look like they may have some other genetics in them though.

Fish 2: Is a a dollar sunfish. They are very closely related to LES, except they rarely grow bigger than 4" and are found in slow moving or non moving waters, while LES tend to mostly be found in streams and rivers. Even for fish squeezer scientists, they can be a real challenge to tell apart when habitat is not considered.

Fish 3: Is a fat sleeper as was correctly ID'd. They are actually a brackishwater species that can adapt to pure freshwater. They are very common in south Florida canals which is where my experience with them comes from. I used to keep them in aquariums. They are glutinous and will eat anything they can swallow. They will commonly get to about 10" with a huge one being 14". They make great LMB bait if fished live down in FL.

Great! If I can get them to take to the old livestock pond I may have a good source of bait fish once my LMB get stocked and up to catching sizes.

CJ, Any input on introducing them into a FHM/CNBG/LMB/(FEW CC) pond?

CJ, I was hoping you'd see this.

Heck, I'd just raise the fat sleepers and see if I could sell them for the aquarium trade. Each one would buy a bunch of forage for the pond!

Flat sleepers generally need brackish water to spawn. There is documentation of them spawning pure freshwater aquariums, however the fry tend to have low survival rates.

They are also highly predacious... There are other better options to use a forage fish than them IMO.

Drumz, if you like I can give you some native species found in your area that you can consider adding if you can catch them as alternative forage species...

Thanks for all the great info. I am quite a distance upstream from what could possibly be brackish water. One possibility is salt(brine) contamination in the gully. The site is on top of a once sulfur producing salt dome. They now preform solution mining to produce brine water for local industry.

Here is a link to the spot where the traps are being set. (Green arrow)

GPS:

30.248827, -93.405845‎
+30� 14' 55.78", -93� 24' 21.04"

https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&q=30.248827,-93.405845&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=0x863b8cdeb034b5ed:0x8cd2e59f8fe5b369,%2B30%C2%B0+14'+54.24%22,+-93%C2%B0+24'+14.20%22&gl=us&ei=SvFpUIb8JsfNqQHo_YCwDg&ved=0CB4Q8gEwAA

My main pond is to the east of the green arrow and the livestock pond is to the south. If you zoom out a little, you can see the large ponds that drain through this gully to the north and west.

I was mainly interested in adding them because they were there and free. I currently have an abundance of Gambusia, which entered the pond naturally, my CNBG seem to be growing great and I recently stocked FHM along with RES and things are looking good for the stocking of Florida LMB this spring.

I clicked on this thread and saw a goby and was like oh s@#$ I would stay FAR away from gobies,free forage or not.All you are going to do is end up with headaches.I have scene them live through 2 rot treatments in a pond via the mud/muck just to emerge to gorge on eggs again,while they may have a place in nature they have no business in a managed pond.

Wow that last minnow is really neat!

Beautiful fish.