Thanks to the drought and my cousin Terry the bass in my 1+ acre pond have been wiped out. All I seem to catch are mudcat. These are those smelly cats with the stiff pointed fins.

I was told the bass was the best way to get rid of them and of course that’s what I’m trying to repopulate. 2 months ago I stocked over $700 worth of small fingerling bass, minnows, and bluegill. The fish came from 2 places: one of those Arkansas companies that deliver all over Texas and that place down the road from me in Hallettsville. Yes, I told them I already had mudcats and wanted to get rid of them.

Did I just give these hardheads a feast on bass or is there any way they can survive the mudcats? Do I need to stock with mature fish?

I am afraid I wasted my time, energy and $$.

If your talking about Flathead cats...you've got to get them all out or you are going to never get bass established. They are considered the "great white shark of freshwater ponds". They are the end of the food chain.

If you are talking about bullheads, then you have a chance of turning it around without nuking the pond.

What size catfish are you catching?

Can you positively identify them as Flathead cats (or otherwise)?

Welcome to PondBoss...I'm rooting for ya! And, if they are Flatheads...I wish I was your neighbor, I'd help you catch them out.

I'll go with the assumption you have a bullhead issue. Since you already put $700 worth of fish in it you are basically in the same boat I am in.

My plan is to thin them out until the bass can take over. To do that I run four 1/2" mesh homemade cloverleaf traps with an assortment of baits. I also have four 1/4" mesh traps for the bullhead fingerlings, and a dip net on standyby in case I spot one of the "balls" of fry.

[img]https://i.imgur.com/rgdQGnE.jpg?1[/img]

I catch 4-10 inch fish. Not too big. I think I need to do more bass fishing and dump my livewell into the pond. Maybe bigger bass can start to take the pond back.

I wish I was at the place more often then I would definitely go to war with them.

Real disappointed in the ($700 bait) fish suppliers.

Definitely Bullhead. Just saw this video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=QuC3sGYBNII

Bullhead make good LMB forage based on everything I've read. I've wanted to add some to my big pond for a few years and haven't been able to find any in quantity.

Wish we were closer, we could solve each other's problems.

It appears bullhead will be providing some substinance for me until the CC and other fish are matured. Not happy about it though!

build a cloverleaf trap and let it catch them. Those bh will eat the living @#$@ out of anything fingerling sized. They're extremely aggressive and will out compete small LMB and BG.

How big are the Bullhead you're catching? A 12-16" bass will put a pounding on BH equal to their own length.

If you have friends who fish for CC or flathead - they'll be interested in BH for bait

I've had BH in my pond almost since day one and have eaten a few. If you can put them in a cage and hold them a few days until you're ready to clean a few, it gets a lot of that muddy taste out of their flesh. A large cooler filled with well water and a small aerator works good too. Just change out part of the water daily.

Matzilla - I plan on building a couple cloverleaf traps this week! How big should the opening be? Caught 3 yesterday in the feed area that were 8-9in and FAT. Heads were around 2in wide.

If you're building a trap specifically to catch Bullhead, I'd cut the entrances about 3" in diameter. That big head needs room to squeeze in but the hole cant be too big or they'll find their way out. Leaving a bit of tag wire poking into the hole and bent inward will also deter them from escaping.

I’ve caught 5 of them on jigs while fishing for crappie. They were 12” and cookie cutter- all the same. Guess the LMB can’t keep up with them. Edible or nasty?

Caught two more today same size and even got finned by one felt like I was in Galveston catching a hardhead. Boy o boy who da thunk there would be that many BH in a 6 acre pond

Never caught more than one or two in five years

Built 1st fish trap ever today after watching a few YouTube videos. It went well.
Cloverleaf with 2.5in diameter entrances. Got it in the water at 9:15 tonight in the feeding area but did not feed. Baited with cheap hard dog food in a sock with holes. Will provide an update tomorrow night.
A neighbor's 10yr old boy said I did a really good job. Feeling accomplished.
Material is cut/ready to go for a second and plenty more for other pond projects such as a live fish box.

Only 1 BH and 1 HBG in the cloverleaf. The BH had some injuries from the trap. I caught another on a line with similar cuts and am guessing it escaped the trap. Caught 5 on BH cut bait.
Threw the trap further out to where I was catching them. I'll try that depth for a few days before making any adjustments to the trap.

Were any of the BH you caught 6-8" long? If so you may need to make a second cloverleaf with openings much smaller than 2.5". I haven't measured mine but I believe they are about an inch, with all the ends left sticking into the trap, and filed smooth on leading edge. The fish can squeeze in but get stabbed if they try to go back out.

my traps have tall narrow openings....8" tall by 2" wide at the widest point....bullhead will turn sideways to enter the trap. plus once they get inside its darn near impossible for them to get out.

Thanks guys! They have been about 8in. I will close the entrance a little tonight if there are not many trapped. I was planning to build a second trap and will use a traditional entrance vs round.
Still no confirmed sightings of the 100CC stocked last Oct. Maybe they all swam away.

Caught 2 small bass in the trap and 5 YOY BH. Since I am building my forage base should the bass be removed or left to eventually start eating YOY BH?

The new cloverleaf with smaller openings is catching many more YOY BH. So far I've removed 17 adults and 35 YOY. 12 tonight in the forage pond/wetkand/sediment trap in just a few hours.
Also catching GSF that are 3-6in, golden shiners and a few more bass.

Currently at 556 YOY BH and 41 6-9in BH. 52 YOY today. Likely stocking 8in LMB this fall after water cools some.

Shortcut can you share pictures of your design and what is working better for you? I"m thinking of making a cloverleaf or a Z shaped trap. I need to know what shape works good and why. I also need some ideas on how to design the access hatch for easy emptying and re-introducing bait. Do you have the bait locked in a container and is it suspended at the top or is it thrown loosely in the cage?

Finally, why would smaller openings allow more fish in (or maybe it keeps them in once they are in?)

Thanks!

I haven't figured out how save pics to my phone small enough to upload here.
I am having the most success with a standard 2'x2'x1' cloverleaf using .5" mesh. Some BH are small enough to slip through the mesh so right now I have no idea how many remain.
An old sock in the bottom of the feed box is working to prevent food falling through. Crawfish have pulled it through a little. Right now I'm using gallon bags with holes punched to allow smell and pieces to come out. Not ideal. The bags just don't hold up. I need to invest in a plastic mesh sack of some kind. Chum bag?
A bungee stretched across the bait box door will work. Fold the outer corners or the bungee will slip off. It's not great but adequate.
Make a cardboard template for the top/bottom of whatever design you go with. Makes it way easier.
Leave the side 2' then cut in half after top and bottom is tied on. 2'is easier to work with than 1'. You'll have two traps when done.
I think a pull rope on the bottom corner opposite from the exit door is best. If you have multiple traps keep your doors, rope tie spot, etc consistent. That way you dont have to remember where the door is on each. Consistency is easier for building and operating. Add a stiff wire handle on the top of the same corner as the rope.
The smaller the openings seem better. Remove 1 post from the opening while leaving sharp ends pointing inside the trap. Catching more YOY with the smallest openings. How many are too big to fit though?
Cheap hard dog food in the bags works well but so has out dated tuna with holes punched. Same as canned dog food. The hatchery I talked to recommended liver cat food, chicken pieces and livers. Haven't tried that yet buy maybe it will be less attractive to BG and GSF?
FHM seem to really enjoy day old BH thats been in the TX sun.
I hope this helps!

Just curious....how deep are you setting your traps? Are you moving them around or soaking in the same general area?

I use a short sock or the end cut off a tube sock and a bread tie to put fish food in for bait. Dog food will add a oily film to your pond if you use it everyday for a few days. It has alot of animal fats in it.

My trap works well for culling panfish so the openings are tall and narrow. I suspect I could widen the center of the slot to accommodate catfish, but I have not used it for that. I tend to get alot of small YOY panfish along with crawdads if I put it at the shore, but when I hang it off the dock over 7 foot of water about 1 foot below the surface, I tend to get more 4" fish.

I made a trapdoor for the bait area out of a piece of plastic and a coffee can hinge. The opening for trapped fish access is a ferrule from a range fan hood and a small bucket lid. Both accesses are held in place by rubber bungee cords bolted to the mesh...

QA that is one of the best looking traps I have seen. Well done!!

One trap is about 3ft deep the other about 4. I tried at 6ft and didn't catch many. Initially thought there weren't many in the main pond....not so lucky. I have yet to see a swarm though. Perhaps a swarm is caused by predators which I have few of?

Thanks David! I enjoyed making it.

One thing to add is that my catch rates are improved if the sock bait is changed everyday. The second day will still have plenty of mushy food in the sock, but I think the smell has faded away enough to reduce it's attractiveness. It still stinks to me (bad), but the fish must notice a difference.

That is a slick rig.

I like the wire loom covering the places that would otherwise make you bleed.

The wire loom around the entrances may also hinder the catch and KEEP rate, but I did not want the fish to bleed either. I have seen some traps with the wires left gnarly at the entrance and facing inward to help keep the fish from exiting. So far, it catches fish, crawdads, and tadpoles.

I haven't noticed any wounds from the wire ends. Wouldn't matter on the BH or GSF anyway. The by-catch being tossed back in is mostly 3-4" BG which I have a lot of. Only one LMB and one RES caught thus far.

HOWEVER, interesting note, a while back I tossed a couple traps out into ~7 foot deep water. Next morning I had dead BH and BG - presumably from lack of oxygen (I don't have aeration) . Evidently they will travel into low oxygen water for short periods.

QA, forgive my lack of a shrewd mechanical mind...

So what is the white plate thing sticking up? Is it on a spring hinge? What is a "coffee can hinge?"

The black rubber strap is a handle for carrying it or just to hold the bait door down? I think I see another metal handle sticking up to the far right of the top of the cage maybe that is for hanging it up to dry?


If the bait is in a sock then you aren't using visual clues just smell? I always thought if I used fish pellets or dog food or bread that it was the visual clues that drew the fish in. The bait enclosure does it go all the way down to the bottom of the cage?

Superb work!

The white plate is a rectangular piece of plastic about 1/8" thick. It serves as the access door to the bait holding area (it is in the open position in the above photo). The coffee can hinge is just a plain hinge that I got out of my coffee can of miscellaneous hinges. I have coffee can bolts, nuts, screws, springs, caps, etc. LOL - sorry for the confusion.



The black rubber strap is part of a rubber bungee cord that has been cut to length and had holes punched in it so that it could be bolted to the cage. It serves as a holder to keep the bait door closed. The metal handle on the far right is to carry it by and wrap up the chain that I use to hang it in the water.



I have not used anything but a sock for the bait, so it's the smell that attracts the fish. I do have my eye open for something like an over sized hot tea infuser to use instead of the sock...the sock is not fun to clean out as I don't want to throw a mushy food filled sock in the trash.

Something that would let the food be visible and escape some might even work better, but I have not found the right junk to make that yet.

The bait enclosure goes from top to bottom. It's just a mesh tube fastened between the top and the bottom.



I watched this video before starting my build. I had to apply the zipties by hand. Gloves and sleeves would have kept some of my blood in.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5DNd0ubSGE

That's a good looking trap Noel. I'm really surprised, with all that attention to detail, you didnt use black zip ties so they would hold up longer from being exposed to the elements.

I cut my hands up something crazy too. That rabbit wire is almost as bad as blackberries when you run your hand thru the wrong place.

Overbuilt. Well done

Mike: I don't think color black proves zip ties are UV resistant - Harbor Freight black ties break within a year when in the sun. A person probably wants to buy ties that specifically state UV resistant for outdoor use. Utilitech ties at Lowes are good https://www.lowes.com/pd/Utilitech-800-Pack-8-in-Nylon-Cable-Ties/999971174

My first traps had the center bait enclosure out of the same 1/2" mesh. I had to go back and line them with window screen to keep the dog food from falling/floating out of it. Later ones were built with 1/4" mesh. I find the best trapping luck when the fish are able to get to some of the food,but not too fast. Otherwise they spend time trying to get out.

I've never tried ties from Harbor Freight, but the ones I use from THD to brush in my duck blind had to be cut off after a couple seasons. They didnt have any description regarding outdoor use.

I use a plastic orange juice bottle with a bunch of holes punched in it and fill it with either dry dog food or a handful of Aquamax. Both seem to work well and when I'm done I can just dump it out and let it dry for the next time I need it.

My zip ties were of the coffee can variety, but they have held up well under the hood of my old Ford, will see how they hold up in the pond.

Just an update. Almost 1500 BH to date and well over 1000 more that died when the forage pond dried up... Kind of burned out and took a break the last few days. 2 traps are soaking now. I've been using Sportsman's Choice fish food for over a month. Cheaper than the cheapest dog food. Old sock w holes poked in them so that food can come out. Half gallon milk jug top and bottom to limit the freeloaders.
Someone said having plenty of food available is helpful so they dont try to escape. I believe it is key. I move the traps around some but generally keep 3 close to each other. My record is 113 in one day.

Great work shortcut! Was there more than one size/year class of BH? Hopefully your LMB can take over the job of controlling BH. You do have LMB right? I don't see them listed in your signature.

I've removed 48 8-12in BH so far. The YOY BH are growing, of course and there are multiple age classes. GSF from YOY to 6in. LMB YOY to 6in. GSH also washed in and I caught about 200 during feeding with a cast net. They were released. I've caught LMB, GSF and HBG that are feeding on them.
The FHM population is being decimated so I have been removing all LMB and large GSF until I stock advanced size LMB this fall.
The water level dropped below the known spawning beds. Appeared to be GSF beds.
I don't believe my BG have spawned yet but I am catching some pretty ones in the traps and occasionally on RR.
The pond owners up stream are supposedly unwilling to nuke their mut ponds.
30 3-6in BH in 2 traps yesterday. They are always very fat in the traps.

I didn't much like having BH in my pond, but I miss having BH.
Those things are the best flathead bait there is.

I may throw some in my forage pond when I get it finished.

Just looking for your advice and thoughts on my situation. To recap, 1st year pond stocked with pan fish, CC and FHM. BH, LMB, GSF and GSH washed in. I've removed 1700 YOY BH, 50 adult BH and 50 YOY LMB. I planned on stocking 8in LMB now but the supplier is only able to get 14-16in LMB. My goal is to have large pan fish. I do not want advanced size LMB to eat the 1yr old BG, HBG OR RES.
My question is: When the BH spawn next year do you think the pan fish, CC and remaining unknown LMB can "control" their numbers, should I proactively stock any YOY or other size LMB or just wait and see?
Any and all options or opinions are welcome!!

How large are your CC and LMB now?

The CC are 15in. I've caught LMB 4-7in, just do not know how many are in there.
In hindsight, yes I should not have removed any LMB. Thought I was protecting my BG spawn.
My hope is for the existing pan fish to eat all the newly hatched fry and CC to eat any remaining YOY in 2020.
Hopefully I've caught most of the BH in there now, hopefully...
A recent CC.

Lusk says, after the first or second year, start culling young of year bass.

Shortcut, I use paint strainers as a bag to hold bait in a trap. I generally bait with the same pellets that I feed.

Thanks Dave. Do you think my existing fish, stocked and the LMB that washed in, are enough to control next year's YOY BH? I'd really like to not trap BH almost every day next summer!

If we can assume(yeah, I know) that bullhead fry conduct themselves like CC, they should. CC fry go everywhere in a slow swimming school and are easy picking for larger predators. And, in a pond, everything larger is a predator without respect to species.

It is very unusual for CC to be a self sustaining species due to predation. Even when I've stocked only CC, they have never pulled off a spawn. They are essentially a put and take fish. In the presence of bass of any size, small cats are groceries.

I think your fish are big enough to control most of the bullheads. Probably have some bullheads that get chunky and make it into the 1-3 LB range. That's my experience in LMB/CC ponds in Oklahoma.

Hopefully so. I'll monitor them with the traps. Thank you for the positive feedback.

Would it be a bad idea to add 75 or so LMB YOY next spring just to help eat BH fry??

Do you already have LMB? it looks like you do in the signature but may the ? means those after the dots are unknown?

If you have LMB already, I would say don't add small fingerlings. If it is unknown then I would say catch some LMB dinks in the 6" to 8" range from a consenting neighbor's BOW and stock them. What are you goals with respect to this BOW?

Some LMB washed in with the BH, GSF and GSH. Just do not know how many. I suspect more will wash in during the next flood. Hopefully lots of rain comes soon! We need it bad.