Pond Boss
Posted By: bassmaster61 Fall feeding - 09/28/18 05:23 PM
This weekend I am going to dial down the timer on our TH feeder to 20 seconds twice each day from the 40 seconds twice each day I have been running since early May. That takes the daily feed volume from a total of 2.2 pounds (Aquamax MVP) per day down to 1.1 pounds per day (1.6 acre pond).

My TH LM135 feeder throws 4.3 ounces of MVP every 10 seconds for reference.

Our place is in west central Illinois, just northeast of St. Louis. Fishing is usually over for the season by early November.

Wondering how all of you dial down your feeding as fall approaches and winter nears. The last 2 years I have done it slowly over the month of October. My next move will be to set the timer down to 10 seconds twice each day in Mid-October. After that I will just let the feeder run until the feed is gone and then shut it down for the winter.

What is your procedure? Any better ideas/procedures out there? I welcome any suggestions. Thanks. BM61.

Posted By: ewest Re: Fall feeding - 09/28/18 05:31 PM
What are your water temps and are the fish still feeding well?

Slow is better as temps fall. Fall preparatory feeding (eating all sources) for winter is important for BG and LMB overwinter condition.

Article on this in next PB Mag issue - be sure to subscribe.
Posted By: bassmaster61 Re: Fall feeding - 09/28/18 06:15 PM
I will test the pond temps tomorrow ewest. We have just recently cooled off but the water temps (my guess) are nowhere near 55 degrees at this point...that has been about the low overnight the last couple of weeks. Daytime highs still in the mid-to-upper 70s/low 80s.

Fish were still feeding very well last weekend...still a feeding frenzy!

Looking forward to seeing that article. And yes....I do subscribe!

thanks ewest. BM61.
Posted By: snrub Re: Fall feeding - 09/29/18 11:49 AM
They are putting on weight for winter reserves. As long as they are aggressively feeding I would keep the feed rates up.

I hand feed daily so I get to observe every day the activity. I let the fish tell me if they are hungry.

The rates you are feeding are modest anyway. If you were feeding 5 or 10 pounds per acre that would be heavy feeding rates. But anything under 2 is pretty modest.

If it were me I would keep the rate you were feeding up till the fish started taking longer to eat it. But that is just me and I am no expert. I actually increase my rates in the fall over summer rates but I am also a lot further south than you.

Edit: you did not mention if you had aereation. In my opinion that makes a difference in what feeding rates a pond will support without running into water quality issues. I do aereate and have now switched to running the air daytime only to support warmer water temperatures.
Posted By: ewest Re: Fall feeding - 09/29/18 02:23 PM
Thanks bassmaster61. The "Article on this in next PB Mag issue - be sure to subscribe.", was for the general audience. Have to do a little sales PR work and hope people are reading and interested.

Fall feeding (eating) is very important and even more so the farther north you live.
Posted By: anthropic Re: Fall feeding - 09/29/18 10:42 PM
I observed slower feeding today now that temps have dropped. Surprised me a bit, adjusted feed rates to match.
Posted By: Mike Whatley Re: Fall feeding - 09/30/18 12:14 AM
I had the same thing here today. Feeding was way off. I'm gonna have to go back to dry feed instead of hydrating so I don't have to waste it.
Posted By: Flame Re: Fall feeding - 09/30/18 11:55 AM
Well I thought it was my muddy water clarity that had my feeding way off with a visibility now of only about 6 inches. But it sounds like my Louisiana neighbors are experiencing the same thing. Really surprises me because water temps are in the 70's and they should be tearing it up. In comparison...what visibility do you guys have??
Posted By: TGW1 Re: Fall feeding - 09/30/18 12:07 PM
My cnbg are still feeding pretty good, maybe a slight slowdown but not much. Food is still gone after a couple of min. Fishing in the pond is really good right now. LMB, HSB and CNBG are biting right now. Oh! my visibility is 25" and the pond is pretty much at full pool. But I did run the water well in July and August so the pond would not drop as low as it did last summer. I have also had a lot more rain the past 90 days. More than I had in the past two years during the same time. I'm really pleased with it all right now.
Posted By: Mike Whatley Re: Fall feeding - 09/30/18 01:02 PM
Flame,
Even with all the rain we've gotten and are still getting, my visibility has never been less than 16". Yesterday it was closer to 36", and surface temp at daybreak is still 80*.
Posted By: bassmaster61 Re: Fall feeding - 10/01/18 01:00 PM
Tested the water temps in our 3 ponds and all were in the 65-68 degree range two feet under the surface. Fish are feeding very well but I still dialed down the timer on the TH to 20 seconds twice per day (1.1 lbs. total feed each day in that 1.6 acre pond) from the prior 40 seconds twice each day.

Looks like all 3 ponds are thinking about turning over as our night temps have been down in the mid to upper 50s over the last 10-14 days. Visibility is dropping.

I have a little over 30 lbs. of MVP pellets left in the feeder so at a touch over a pound per day it looks like it will run dry around Halloween. I will shut it down for the season after that as the water temp should be below 55 by then if history is any indicator.

Enjoy your fall fishing. BM61.
Posted By: ewest Re: Fall feeding - 10/01/18 04:05 PM
Keep an eye on things and report back what temp they stop eating.
Posted By: anthropic Re: Fall feeding - 10/01/18 06:48 PM
Visibility about 26 inches, murkier than usual 36 to 42 inches. Water around 78, down from mid 80s.
Posted By: Mike Whatley Re: Fall feeding - 10/01/18 09:01 PM
Originally Posted By: anthropic
Visibility about 26 inches, murkier than usual 36 to 42 inches. Water around 78, down from mid 80s.


How did your fish feed today?

My surface temp is still teetering on 80*, but feeding was still off this afternoon. Visibility still around 24". I switched to completely dry pellets instead of hydrating to prevent throwing excess food. They ate it, but it took a while and very lethargic. We've got another system moving in from the south, so it could be barometric pressure causing their finickiness.
Posted By: FireIsHot Re: Fall feeding - 10/01/18 10:07 PM
I understand why our northern guys are cutting back the feeder times, but with water temps in the upper 70's, I'm having a hard time understanding the diminished feeding down here. Our water's setting at 76-80 degrees, and I've doubled my feeder throw times as our cnbg are gorging with the cooler water temps.

Also, my big pond has the same brown water with low visibility as described by others. I never see that in the summer months, but the same thing happened here this spring several times. To the best of my knowledge, every time this has happens is after a algae bloom.

Question. Could our warm water coupled with cooler rainfall kill the algae bloom and cause the brown tinted water?
Posted By: Mike Whatley Re: Fall feeding - 10/02/18 08:44 AM
I'm at a loss to understand why the feeding has fell off. I fully expected to see my fish jumping out of the water by now but it's just the opposite. My only reasoning is due to such unstable weather and heavy cloud cover every day.

My water had turned brown with heavy rains but is slowly getting back to olive green with at least a few hours of sunshine recently. Still running aerator at night but that's liable to change this weekend to a daytime schedule.
Posted By: NEDOC Re: Fall feeding - 10/02/18 12:20 PM
Originally Posted By: Mike Whatley
I'm at a loss to understand why the feeding has fell off. I fully expected to see my fish jumping out of the water by now but it's just the opposite. My only reasoning is due to such unstable weather and heavy cloud cover every day.

My water had turned brown with heavy rains but is slowly getting back to olive green with at least a few hours of sunshine recently. Still running aerator at night but that's liable to change this weekend to a daytime schedule.


My fish will occasionally quit feeding for a week or two at a time. I tend to blame it on a hatch of some sort that they're gorging on.
Posted By: Quarter Acre Re: Fall feeding - 10/02/18 02:48 PM
The water column temps at my pond dropped 10 degrees about a week ago which led me to change the aerator times to the daytime instead of nights. This has caused the feeding to fall off considerably and I don't think you could catch one on a hook if you were starving to death. I have since cut the feed in half as well.

I am afraid that messing with the aerator schedule to try and compensate for temperatures has really messed with the fish's routine. I suppose that there could be other reasons, but, besides the temp drop, that' all I can come up with. The clarity has stayed the same. I am now running the air from 9am to 1 pm and plan to tapper that schedule as fall ensues. I'm not sure that the benefits, what little there may be, of altering the air schedule to compensate for fall season temps are not overtaken by the loss of feeding benefits.
Posted By: ewest Re: Fall feeding - 10/02/18 05:22 PM
Fast temp drops can cause havoc on many pond fish species. It can even lead to death. As cold blooded animals their metabolism drops quickly with rapid temp changes. Lipid (fat) imbalances occur , muscles stiffen and death can follow.


A PB mag article in the next issue discusses this - it is one issue to late for timing purposes. If you aren't a PB mag subscriber you need to order a subscription. Here is one tidbit from the article.

It is believed that the lipid composition in the fish muscle plays a vital role in the ability of fish to adapt from one temperature to another. First, temperature determines the rate of chemical reactions, and secondly, temperature dictates the point of balance between the formation and disruption of the macromolecular structures in biological membranes. Structural flexibility, therefore, is a requirement for integrity of biological membranes. Cold temperatures constrain this flexibility. The fat apparently hardens in the colder water, causing the fat-impregnated muscles to stiffen and the fish to become exhausted and lose movement followed by death.

At 70F BG should be very active and consuming lots of food.

Brown plankton often occurs late in the summer plankton growing season as we move toward fall.
Posted By: Mike Whatley Re: Fall feeding - 10/02/18 09:40 PM
Even with all the rain and cloud cover we've had the last few weeks, my surface temps are still hanging close to 80*f. I'm hoping as the temp continues to drop, feeding will pick up. As of today, they're still timid to feed. To be honest, they fed better when my surface temps were 90+.

Aeration still going 6 hrs from 2-8a, visibility is 30" and last ph test was 8.0. No reason I can think of as to what's put them off the last few days.
Posted By: FireIsHot Re: Fall feeding - 10/02/18 11:24 PM
Eric, thanks for the info.
Posted By: Bill D. Re: Fall feeding - 10/03/18 01:00 AM
Great info Eric! I'm looking forward to reading the article! Do you think that fish that are fed to obesity and very high Relative Weights are more susceptible to this type of stress/kill?
Posted By: anthropic Re: Fall feeding - 10/03/18 04:35 AM
Originally Posted By: Mike Whatley
Originally Posted By: anthropic
Visibility about 26 inches, murkier than usual 36 to 42 inches. Water around 78, down from mid 80s.


How did your fish feed today?

My surface temp is still teetering on 80*, but feeding was still off this afternoon. Visibility still around 24". I switched to completely dry pellets instead of hydrating to prevent throwing excess food. They ate it, but it took a while and very lethargic. We've got another system moving in from the south, so it could be barometric pressure causing their finickiness.


Could be that recent rain (after a long drought) and lower temps shocked fish a bit, especially southern strain F LMB and CNBG. I'm seeing tons of small YOY fish, a welcome change from last year, which could also explain why larger fish have full tummies & are less interested in feed.

Wasn't out at my BOW today, it's an hour drive so I'm not there every day. With new mobile home, I plan to show up a lot more often! grin
Posted By: Quarter Acre Re: Fall feeding - 10/03/18 12:18 PM
Originally Posted By: Bill D.
Do you think that fish that are fed to obesity and very high Relative Weights are more susceptible to this type of stress/kill?


I woke up early this morning wondering the same thing. Higher fat content may equal higher water temp preference. Kinda like regular diesel compared to winter diesel.
Posted By: snrub Re: Fall feeding - 10/03/18 12:20 PM
My fish slowed down on feed for a couple days when a cold front and rain happened. But they are back to voratious as of last night.
Posted By: Mike Whatley Re: Fall feeding - 10/03/18 04:48 PM
This the third day of sunshine after nearly two weeks of heavy cloud cover for me, so I'm hoping to see a change in the feeding soon. I'd like to be able to use up what feed I've got before it gets too cool.

Update: Today's feeding went much better!! I guess I've spoilded them with the hydrated pellets. They don't seem to like coming up for the dry feed near as much as when its been softened a bit. I think the softer food is putting off a lot more scent when it hits the water. Either way, they're eating better.
Posted By: TGW1 Re: Fall feeding - 10/06/18 03:48 PM
In most years, I don't think your fish will slow down much when it comes to feeding. I am north of you and my fish will feed 365 but I have seen a couple of really cold winters here in my life but did not have a pond then and I think they might slow down during those two or three cold winters over the past 30 years. Bob Lusk said feed as long as they will eat if you want some big uns. smile
Posted By: anthropic Re: Fall feeding - 10/06/18 09:49 PM
Originally Posted By: Mike Whatley
This the third day of sunshine after nearly two weeks of heavy cloud cover for me, so I'm hoping to see a change in the feeding soon. I'd like to be able to use up what feed I've got before it gets too cool.

Update: Today's feeding went much better!! I guess I've spoilded them with the hydrated pellets. They don't seem to like coming up for the dry feed near as much as when its been softened a bit. I think the softer food is putting off a lot more scent when it hits the water. Either way, they're eating better.


Great news, Mike. I agree with Tracy that you should continue feeding so long as the fish will eat it. In your neck of the woods, that may well 365 days a year.

Gets colder up here, all the way down to 10F last winter, though that's unusual.
Posted By: Mike Whatley Re: Fall feeding - 10/06/18 10:29 PM
I did a surface temp and PH test this morning. The aerator was still running when I tossed the thermometer in, just a few feet from the boil. The areator had been running nearly 6 hrs. I hope this method gives me an idea of what the deeper depth temps are doing without going out on the boat. Anyway, the surface temp at 7:30am was still at 81*f. PH tested at 7.0 on my wide range 5 drop test kit. No sunshine to speak of today as its been raining on and off all day. (I'm wondering if I may need to expand the run time due to all this cloud cover).

Feeding today was all dry again (if you don't consider the rain), using the last batch of my 50/50 mix of Game Fish Chow and AM500. I have enough of that to probably get thru most of October, then its straight AM500 after that. They ate...but not with much enthusiasm.

Last winter was the coldest I can remember here since 1985, with temps in the 20s for a week. I have no idea how cold the water got as I wasn't really paying much attention to the pond then, due to building the house. As long as they act remotely interested in eating, I'll be throwing pellets, tho. Being able to hand feed, its easy to adjust to how they're feeding day to day.

The pond is completely full and overflowing a couple inches into my 6" drain pipe.
Posted By: TGW1 Re: Fall feeding - 10/09/18 12:26 PM
I seem to remember that cold spell last year. My water temps dropped down to the low 40's at or near the surface. I just new I had lost all of my TFS. And I had a good number of them in the pond. But I discovered in June that my TFS had survived that cold snap and they are doing well and are all over the pond right now. I have no idea how they survived, must have hunkered down in the deeper pools.
Posted By: Mike Whatley Re: Fall feeding - 10/19/18 10:44 PM
My feeding is still way off. We haven't had any serious rains for over a week now, and most are just short showers. Surface temps are still mid 70s and ive been running the aerator intermitently as the weather permits without cooling the water, usually in the late afternoon after feeding.

A week ago, visibility was close to 36". Today its about 12" and I've got what looks like a bluegreen algae bloom. I thought that was strange with cooler temps, but remember someone saying that some algae thrive in cooler water or even under ice.

I'm thinking with the weather being so unstable, the massive influx of watershed and now this algae bloom has really knocked everything in the head. I see minnow activity out in the middle of the pond, and there appears to be ample numbers of GAMs, redtails and fry/yoy. Often seeing them fleeing an apparent attack from below. So this may be contributing to the low response to pellets.

If anyone has any other ideas, I'm all ears.
Posted By: ewest Re: Fall feeding - 10/20/18 12:17 AM
Originally Posted By: Bill D.
Great info Eric! I'm looking forward to reading the article! Do you think that fish that are fed to obesity and very high Relative Weights are more susceptible to this type of stress/kill?


Studies seem to indicate that fish on natural diets (and some pelleted diets with proper lipids) are less apt to have this problem. Obese fish with to much of the wrong food could be more susceptible to winter issues.
Posted By: Papa Bear Re: Fall feeding - 10/21/18 01:55 PM
I don't know how to post a new thread and this question seems close to mine. I didn't see there are any responses, but that may be me not knowing how to see them. I have a five acre pond, should be around 20 deep in the middle. Stocked 40+ yrs ago with blue gill, large mouth and channel cat. Currently too many stunted fish. I want to rehabilitate the water and fish. First problem is what I'm told is Filamentous Algae. My dad used to spread pellets of some kind and it made the plants wilt and go to the bottom which allowed us to fish from the banks without having to clean the lures after each cast. WHAT IS THE LATEST TREATMENT Y'ALL RECOMMEND? Thanks.
Posted By: anthropic Re: Fall feeding - 10/21/18 07:35 PM
TP work well on FA, I've found. Also they convert useless algae into protein to feed your other fish.

Of course, they only last a season in Texas, but then the same is true of a chemical treatment.
Posted By: Mike Whatley Re: Fall feeding - 10/21/18 11:12 PM
You'll also need to find out if tilapia are legal where you are. Here in Louisiana, especially southern, they are not allowed due to reproduction issues and the potential for escaping into the local waterways. They are allowed in most northern states as they will not survive the cold weather and need to be restocked every year.
Posted By: anthropic Re: Fall feeding - 10/22/18 02:31 AM
Mozambique TP are legal in Texas, but I think all TP are banned in Louisiana.
Posted By: bassmaster61 Re: Fall feeding - 10/22/18 11:53 AM
I am way north of you but I use copper sulfate crystals (small size) at a rate of 15 lbs. per surface acre once the water hits 48-50 degrees in the spring (usually in mid-March). Our ponds are usually good until later in May and then I re-treat (ideally every 3 weeks or so)at a rate of 7 lbs. per surface acre. Use a double burlap bag, pour the CS crystals in, tie on a rope and then drag/troll the bag around the edges of the pond. CS works great.

You can also use Cutrine Plus at a rate of 1 gallon for every 9 gallons of water. For smaller batches, the CP is 11% of the amount of water you use. I recommend also mixing in a little diquat at a rate of maybe 2% of the water you use. 1 gal = 128 ounces so do the math from there. For instance, for 3 gallons of water I mix in 42 ounces of Cutrine Plus and 4 ounces of diquat. And be sure to use surfactant at a rate of 0.5 ounces per gallon of water in each batch...makes a big difference.....and surfactant is cheap.

I always have trouble staying ahead of the FA.....lay off for just a few weeks when the water warms up (June here) and you probably have lost the battle for the rest of the season. Of course, you have to be careful during hot weather to avoid a fish kill with these chemicals. Maybe only treat 1/3 to 1/2 of the pond at a time when the weather is hot. Wait 7-10 days between treatments.

Best of luck. BM61.
Posted By: Mike Whatley Re: Fall feeding - 10/28/18 08:09 PM
I'm still really confused about why my fish have all but quit taking pellets. I've quit running aeration at night and manually run it of the afternoon, after I've tried feeding. Where I once had hundreds of BG/GSF hanging out waiting for pellets, now there are none. And only a few takers coming up. Not even the BH!! The majority of what I'm feeding now are minnows.

Air temperature today is 82 and surface temp is 80. No changes in weather for the past few days. They should be feeding hard!

Is it possible they're satisfied with all the minnow forage (there's thousands of them from 1/4 -2" long) and they've just lost interest in the pellets?

Edit:
The wife and I were talking over dinner, and I tend to agree with her observation....feeding has been greatly diminished since I installed the aeration. Is this common?
Posted By: anthropic Re: Fall feeding - 10/28/18 11:00 PM
Mike, I wonder if the aeration has opened up more of your pond for natural feeding, hence less interest in artificial. Just a guess.
Posted By: Mike Whatley Re: Fall feeding - 10/28/18 11:55 PM
It sure has me baffled. I know they're actively chasing because I see surface activity all the time, even at night. As soon as I shut the pump off today there was surface breaks at boil perimeter. There's definitely enough forage for everyone. I set one of my minnow traps today and sampled forage from 1/2" up to 2" fry. Apparently I've had a rather recent hatch with fry that small. Appeared to be both BG and GSF. Possibly one RES. It was only about 2" but appeared to have the start of that red marking on the ear tab. Really hard to tell when they're that small.

They sure don't take to pellets like they used to tho. That's kinda sad on my part. It's a hoot watching them tear it up!
Posted By: anthropic Re: Fall feeding - 10/29/18 09:43 PM
Perhaps your fish are gorging on the recently spawned YOY to the exclusion of anything else. If so, they will return to pellets when supply of forage diminishes.
Posted By: Mike Whatley Re: Fall feeding - 10/29/18 11:33 PM
Originally Posted By: anthropic
Perhaps your fish are gorging on the recently spawned YOY to the exclusion of anything else. If so, they will return to pellets when supply of forage diminishes.


There are days, like today, when they do feed a bit better, but still nowhere near the way they used to before I installed the aeration. Surface temps would be as high as 99*, and when I walked down to feed there would be a couple hundred fish patiently waiting near the bank, and would go crazy as soon as the first few pellets landed. Today has been the warmest we've seen in weeks. Also, being my fish are all native, I think they're more tollerant and apparently more active in warmer temps. As soon as I started dropping the surface temp with aeration, they slowed down on the pellets.

Since the installation, there are hardly a dozen waiting, and none of my bigger fish. When they do feed, its very lethargic, and mostly subsurface feeding. Being the only major ongoing change, I tend to think aeration has something to do with it. With my pond's size, I think it has a more profound impact on them.

That being said, they're definitely feeding heavier on forage tho, and I've got plenty of that to go around. More now with aeration than before.

Edit: I'm on straight AM500 now, and will keep throwing it as long as their at least remotely interested. Once this batch is gone tho, as long as I'm seeing good numbers of forage, I'll likely hold off feeding pellets till next spring.
© Pond Boss Forum