I bought my grandparent's old house in February of this year and started a pretty extensive remodel. With that nearing completion, my attention has turned to the pond. My boys love to swim, fish, and kayak in it. However, the fish are all very small. I have no idea how old the pond is, but I would guess at least 50 years old. I know the fish were all killed off 20+ years ago and restocked, but no maintenance has ever really been done to it. I don't know what information you need to know about it, but I can answer any questions to get the best answer. I just don't know if I'm better off to drain it this summer, push the mud out an restock, or if I should try t fix what I have.

I'm interested in hearing what the pro's say also. My situation is very similar to yours. I'm leaning towards draining, digging out 50 yrs of silt, and re-stocking.

That's what I'm thinking too.

At the very least, it will let you get some structure in the pond, and allow you to build a nice dock/patio while the pond is down. Make a long enough dock for diving and fishing, and the boys will love it!

Based on the trees nearby, expect quite a bit of muck.

Is is feasible to drain it now, do all the work this fall, and have a pond ready to be stocked by next spring?

Some good information to have in your determination would what the depth of the pond is and how much muck is in the bottom.

If you have a small boat, could take a rope with weight marked in foot increments, drop it to the bottom while making a chart of depths. Also in the same operation, if you have a rod of some sort you could push the rod into the bottom of the pond to determine the depth of the muck buildup.

For example, if it were my pond and it were ten or fifteen feet deep in the deepest part, had only a foot or two of muck, that would be an entirely different situation as far as cleanout than if the deepest part of the pond is now only six feet deep. So a depth chart and also a chart of the depth of the muck would be useful information for your final determination.

Cleaning a pond out will be a major investment, but on the other hand it will make the pond useful for a lot more years.

A fish survey would also be helpful. Trapping and catching would be one method. Electro-fishing is another that I have no experience whatsoever with.

About a 1/3 of the pond is over 10' for sure. My kayak paddle is 8.5' and I could not reach the bottom with my arm deep in the water. As far as the muck, the area where the "beach" is, from walking around feels like 3"-6" No idea what the deeper areas are like. I did try to dig a deep pit with the excavator to try to make a place for fish, but quickly realized I could not reach far enough out to justify doing it.

Maybe I should invest in an aerator and just kill and restock?

I've only been managing ponds actively for the last two or three years so am really a novice. Keep that in mind as I ask questions or make suggestions.

But I have learned enough that I think I can ask intelligent questions to help you think about the process.

So much is going to depend on your goals for the fishery, and you have not yet stated them. Very important to know what you want the end result to look like as well as important for the experts to also know before they can make recomendations.

You say there are only small fish. That could be a very good thing is all the small fish happen to be BG and you want a trophy LMB fishery. Just add LMB. Likely it is not that simple, but you see what I am getting at by knowing that there "are only little fish". A lot of small BG is a different situation than a lot of small LMB.

Do you want a trophy fishery with trophy LMB, or a kids fishery where you pull something in with every cast, or a pan fish fishery for table fare, or something altogether different than any of those? The recommendation on how you should proceed could be vastly different depending on what you are after for the end result.

For example I like a pan fish fishery, with little desire for trophy size fish. So the experts recommendation for my BOW might be vastly different than for someone wanting fewer but larger fish.

So if you can give us what your definition of your "dream fishery" is, the experts will have a lot more to work with. Also if you can give some species and sizes of the "small fish" caught, that will also give some insight of what you currently have to work with.

Hope this helps.

I want a pond that is pleasant to look at and clean enough to swim in. I pretty much have that now with the exception of a few plants growing near the beach. I wish the viability was better, I can only see about 10"-12" deep right now.

As for fishing. I would like to have some catfish to catch and eat, a few larger bass that are fun to catch once in a while along with some other type/size of fish so the kids don't get tied of only catching a couple of fish an hour.

As for the type of fish in it now, there are 3 grass carp. One 3' or larger and two under 2'. There are at least 3 large catfish that come up to feed (we have caught and ate 6 this year) There are tons of small BG. From my deck I can see at least 30 nests and there is always at least 2-3 schools of them around the shallow areas. Almost all the bass I have caught are small, thin, and not very active.

There is so much to learn about managing a pond, especially if there are very specific goals. I could see you managing what you have now, with a sidethought of a complete re-do as a "possibility". Use the pond to learn, get to know it, make some mistakes. It may turn out better than you think. If not, re-do it and you will have a better chance for success at that point with the knowledge gained. Just decide how much money you are willing to sink into it as is, versus a re-do. Some of the things you might even be able to re-use into the new pond if that day comes. I have seen a lot of newbies strike out for that "perfect" pond, only to be thrown a curve ball because of bad choice in a weak moment.

By your description of your goals and what you got, you may not be far off from getting it. Probably should aerate for better water. Might need to thin some bass... learn about which and how much. Read lots on the forum, and then read some more.

Do you really know enough about the pond to make an assessment at this time?

This is a curious statement:

"There are tons of small BG. From my deck I can see at least 30 nests and there is always at least 2-3 schools of them around the shallow areas. Almost all the bass I have caught are small, thin, and not very active."

Not doubting what you say, it just seems to be a conflicting statement. Usually small, thin LMB (assuming they are LMB) are associated with a pond lacking in forage fish for the bass to eat. You have abundant forage fish from your observations (lots of small BG), yet still skinny bass. Don't have an answer for you but will be interesting what some of the experts think of the situation. If a pond has excessive weeds or cover that protect them too well from predation it could be a cause of having both lots of small BG yet skinny bass. Another cause is turbid water where the bass can not sight feed. You mentioned low visibility for the water. Could be part of the problem.

Will be interesting to hear what the experts have to say. I imagine they need more information, but you gave them a good start.

Good point.

That's one of the things I was thinking of when I posted my question.

Step 1, for me, would be an analysis of the water re alkilinity and PH. Maybe some of the guys from your area can tell you where to mail a water sample to get that done. You can get a general but not really accurate idea by using swimming pool test strips.

The big cats could be a wild card regarding the bass sizes.

What are the bluegill overall sizes? If the runt bass are eating the BG when they are very small, you need to cull a lot of small bass. The bass needs BG that are between 1/4 to 1/3 it size to thrive. The runt bass might be eating the BG before they can get large enough to feed a bigger bass. It's a matter of energy expended vs calories obtained and a big bass can starve trying to live on minnows.

What is the low visibility? You are able to see nests and small fish so it doesn't seem to be all that bad. Unless it is really turbid(muddy), a "healthy" pond ought to have 18 to 24 inches when using a sechi disk. Make your own with the top of a white paint bucket, string and a weight. Or, you wear a pair of white sneakers and see where you can no longer see them. Use a yard stick to measure. The visibility indicates the planktonic base which is the indication of a healthy pond. What color is the water? Does it look like good clean water? Is there an odor? From the pictures, it looks OK and the stuff you dug out doesn't look like the pudding that generally indicates a need to drain and dig out.

Digging out and renovating an old pond isn't as easy to do as it seems like. The muck in the bottom has to dry before it can really be mechanically removed. During that time, rain is not your friend. I know a guy in West Texas that has been waiting for a couple of years for enough rain to refill his pond.

Killing and/or draining might be a solution that is looking for a problem. And, it will be a very expensive solution. Before I did that, I would pay for a Pro to do an analysis. Prior to the Pro coming, I would fish it and keep a comprehensive log of everything that you catch and observe. A Pro will thank you for that and be able to really give you your moneys worth. And he will be a lot cheaper than diesel. I don't know any from your area.

I would suggest you survey (sample) the pond, fishing it many times over six months, may not be the best way to survey but will be the cheapest. Or running a net, or electroshocking. I think I am a good fisherman, so I would try that first. Running a net can be hard work and it's hard to find good help, so I would lean toward electrofishing it through someone who knows how to survey and make suggestions for corrections if needed.

Tracy

I agree with both Dave and TGW1.

Another way to help in your sampling is using fish traps. A baited minnow trap can catch small BG, GSF, BH and minnows. Will give you an idea of the diversity and species in the pond. Larger fish traps can catch larger specimens. Fish traps are not good at trapping all species (have never caught a LMB in any of my traps), but they are another tool to help you get an idea of what is in your pond. Minnow traps are especially good at seeing what success your forage fish spawns are having.

Unlikely, as mentioned you would have to wait for the muck to dry to move it, and that can take quite a while if rain hits or you have a spring. If you are unlucky you can get a bad drought which oddly helped a lot of fisheries out in the past few years, allowing renovations and expansions.

Based on what you observe with a good 10' or more bottom, it may not be worth it to drain. You may have a lot of muck, but the pond may have also been really deep to begin with. Adding aeration may also help break some muck down over time as well. This may release some nutrients into the water column though...

Based on your observations of panfish spawning, I am guessing you have larger bass somewhere in there, perhaps a bit hook shy?

Thanks for all the help so far. I have been doing a little work with the excavator trying to clean up some of the trees growing on the dam. I also thought it was a good idea to try and clean up the inside of the banks, but feel like I'm making some of them worse instead of better. Of course will all the dirt work the pond is not pretty muddy with no viability.

One thing I discovered it the dam leaks a little. You cannot see any moving water, but there is a place that stays wet on the backside. I was told the water level was lowered about 2-3 feet a few years ago to help slow the leak, but nothing was done to fix it. Do I have any options to correct the problem?

jd, considering your location in KY, an 8' depth will be enough to help fish survive under ice and avoid a winter kill. Like was said earlier, cleaning muck may be a lot more expensive than adding a good aeration system. Aeration can help your water quality improve for that "clean enough to swim" goal as well...though in reality, the water is usually safe regardless of the looks.

What size trees did you remove? Trees over 4" diameter chest high are often best left alone. If the drip line of the trees extended over the water, the roots will be in the water also. removing the tree could cause leaks as the root system decays.

I refurbished an old farm pond and expanded it a couple years ago. This old pond had a breech in the dam and during a drought was almost dry. It had a seep on the backside of the dam ever since I can remember as a kid because there was a place we did not drive the tractor because of the potential to get stuck.

When I dug all the muck out with the dozer had a lot of extra dirt. Also expanded the pond from about a half acre to an acre.

The point, which I am actually going to get to, is as I was doing all this I remembered the seep on the back side of the dam. It was still a soft spot. What I did, right or wrong, was I dug down with the dozer (almost got stuck and couldn't back out) as deep as I could in this seep on the back side of the dam. Then I filled it and packed best I could with the dozer. Then we proceeded to put fill on the back side of the dam, mostly clay from the new excavated part, hauling with a rubber tired 12 yard scraper packing it in as we went. Made the dam about twice as thick as the original and made it sloped enough so we could mow (original dam was too steep to mow).

Did I fix the leak? Maybe. At least it is not wet where it used to be. There is a small seasonal creek right on the back side of this dam so potentially I might have only pushed the seep lower where it is not noticeable. But I think if I did not actually "fix" the leak, I must have pretty well slowed it to almost nothing. At least this pond looses water to evaporation no faster than my other ponds or ponds in the area. So there must not be a leak of any significance.

So my point is, though it is generally recognized you can't fix a leaky dam by working on the back side of it, if you do have enough dirt to almost build a second dam and if you do pack it in well, you can slow or stop a slow seep. Or at least push it lower out of sight.

My results. Yours may vary. But if you end up having a lot of extra dirt from your excavations, might be worth a try. No self respecting contractor would recommend it. But that description does not fit me so I did it.

I'd hate to do all the work to the pond, get the fish right, etc., then 5 years down the road have to start all over because the dam leak got a LOT worse....

Just to follow up on this; I had the water tested for alkalinity. They suggested 10 tons for lime and check the water again in January.

People talk about shoving something into the bottom of the pond to see how deep the muck is. How can you differentiate between muck and mud?

The sides of my pond is soft and very slick. I figured it was just clay.

Sean

I was told to use a stiff piece of conduit or PVC pipe.

Shove it in as far as you can from a boat. Mark water level on the pipe.

Now place a coupling on the pipe or something else as a "stop", and add a short piece of pipe. Cut a hole in a 5 gal bucket lid, barely large enough to slide the pipe (but not the coupling) through. Now shove that into the pond bottom with the same amount of force. Now mark the water level on the pipe. The difference is the depth of the muck. Make sure the lid doesn't slide over the stop.

I put 2 gallons of Prenfish in today. I did not have a boat so I used a pressure washer to spray it out. Only went about 12' from the bank so I went around a couple times and let the wind do some of the work.

I had two 3'-4' grass carp, one catfish, two 1-1.5 lb bass and TONS of small bluegill. I know there are more smaller bass than what I have seen floating. Will they all float as they die? I see some fish that have already sank is shallow water.

I just took a walk around the pond with a flashlight. I only saw two fish moving and Ther are near done for. Did I get them all?

Sorry but I am curious...I reviewed the posts and probably missed something. Your pond has sufficient depth and had lots of small BG to support your goal of a few nice bass. Why did you kill the fish in the pond? Is it to fix the dam? I would think if you have lots of small bass then you would not have lots of small BG, so I doubt you just missed them with the chemical kill, but I am not a pro.

I was not sure on populations of fish. I also did not know for sure what all was in it. I forgot to mention, I think I had some crappie in it.