Hi,

I need some help with my 40+ year old, 3/4 acre, run-off filled, farm pond in Iowa.

When the pond was built they pushed the dirt to form a dam which is roughly 8-10 feet wide. Over the years, trees have started growing on and around the dam. Some of these trees have gotten rather large with trunks measuring up to 6-8 inches in diameter. I like the trees, but a neighbor of mine told me I should cut the trees down because bugs can eat the roots causing leaks to form in the dam. Is this even possible?

My next question is basically, should I drain the pond or what should I do to make the pond healthy?

The following is random stuff about the pond:

The owner before me completely neglected the pond and really did nothing to help the property.

When we first bought the acreage and fished the pond we only caught small Bullhead Catfish. Last spring, we contacted a local fish breeder and bought their recommended mixture of fish. We ended up getting some Bluegill, Hybrid Bluegill, Crappie, Bass and a couple of grass cats.

We fished it a couple of weeks ago, but only caught small Bullheads again. I guess we could of just had bad luck or maybe the fish are still too small. My opinion is that the pond wasn't healthy enough causing them to die.

The pond is home to 6 Geese and 3 Muscovy Ducks. I put in an aerator to keep the pond from freezing.

When full, the pond is roughly 8 feet deep. The bottom has about 5-10" deep of some nasty, stinky, disgusting black mud covering it. Also, the water clarity is less than a foot.

Last fall we dug part of it out and made it about 15% bigger, and a couple of feet deeper in some places last fall.

The only thing that seems to be thriving is duckweed.

Here are some of the things I have considered to fix the pond:

a) Pump out the pond using a larger trash pump and try to remove most of the yuck off the bottom. I have even considered completely draining it.
b) Build a silt pond at the point where most of the run-off enters the pond.
c) Use a herbicide to kill off the duckweed.

Do you have any suggestions? We need all the help we can get.

Thank You

Welcome to the forum!

I think that with your eutrophic pond, the best long term fix would be drain, rework the dam to remove the trees, clean out all the muck, re-compact the pond basin and start new. Get a legal pad and start making notes. Write down your goals for the pond and start researching. The Fall is normally the driest time of the year, and that would give you time to get a renovation plan together.

Welcome also... I like your b,&c options. a/ there is a bacterial muck reducer (bacteria eats the muck). If possible, take some trees and all the bullheads you can get out. I'd hate to see you lose all the fish you just bought. Just curious, what type of crappie did you put in?

Thank you for the welcomes and replies. If I end up reworking the pond completely it would have to be a year from this fall. I have plenty of time to consider that option. Should I go ahead and cut down the trees on the dam this year? I could rather easily build the silt pond this year after a bit of research. Is there any harm to adding the muck eating bacteria either way? Also would using a trash pump on the bottom be a waste of time? I figured I could build the silt pond and run a pump around the bottom of the pond and basically take the water down to say half while trying to pump out much of the muck? What should I start googling to find the correct muck eating bacteria?

They are Black Crappie. I'll fish the pond more and see if I catch anything other than Bullheads.

I'll have to think about the best way to remove the Bullheads. Any thoughts on that would be great.

We caught on line and trapped 8 bullheads out of our old pond. Have went about a week without getting any bullheads in the fish trap. So either we have caught most of them or more likely we have caught all the dumb ones or ones large enough to stay in the trap. I was glad to get those eight out of there though, as most if not all would have been large enough to spawn later this summer. So a fish trap is one way to catch the bullheads without sitting at the end of a fishing line. A cut up BC would be good bait for the fish trap.

Esshup probably has the best long term solution, but it makes catching any decent size fish a long ways off by the time renovation is done, fish stocked, and they grow up. If you go this route, I would also suggest you look at your options of how much land you have and any area that could support another pond. It it likely you will spend as much if not more on cleaning out your current pond as building a completely new one. If you have the land and location, leaving the old pond as is and building another brand new one might be a better option. What about just building a brand new pond where you are thinking of building your sediment pond? Let the overflow pipe fill the old pond. Just giving you things to think about. I have renovated three ponds so far with my own equipment and have built one 3 acre new pond as well as a micro forage pond and just finishing a quarter acre sediment pond. I can tell you from experience, building new is a lot more fun from an equipment and time standpoint than cleaning the muck out of an old pond. But if your pond is strategically located, like in front of your house, cleaning it out or otherwise renovating it might be your only option.

As far as the trees, that is a judgment thing and kind of depends on what your future plans are. For example, if you were going to try and work with your current pond without completely draining and cleaning it out but with the thought of doing so in the future sometime........I would cut the trees, deaden the stumps and hope for the best. The roots as they die might or might not create a leak, but if they do it will probably take at least five years for it to happen, and by then you may be ready for drain and excavate anyway. Or if water use is not a concern, leave the nicest treas for the time being and hope they don't die or the roots cause another problem. If they do, it might be five years down the road and you are ready to drain and clean out anyway. See what I am getting at? If you kind of figure out your future plans, you might get some good use out of your current pond by doing some remedial work only. Then clean it out when the problems present themselves as to no longer workable.

My best suggestion, if you have the area available, is to do some minor work on the current pond using aeration and some elbow grease while building a new pond instead of sinking the cost of draining and excavating the current one. You have decent depth and a foot or 18" of muck is really not that bad.

You can try dredging out the muck with a trash pump, but my guess is you will tire quickly of the amount of work it will be. If you try it, by all means let us know how it worked out. The aeration should eventually help with the muck reduction if you have enough water turnover, but it will not be instant gratification. Probably will take a few years.

Just my non-expert opinion.

I like A and B options! Option C might come into play after the re-working. My guess is that your "stocking" from someone "just" wanting to sell fish, was little more than fish food for the starving bullheads. Those bullheads are most likely also the cause for such low clarity in the pond due to their constant muck rooting looking for food.

If you want to drain the pond, don't worry about bacteria for the sludge. Best method would be to get a back, or track hoe to breach the dam and keep it drained. It sounds like you would like a larger pond, and it will be less expensive to push the old muck out to be used as filler on the back side of an entirely new, cored and WELL compacted dam. This will gain you volume and a little more depth if wanted in areas at the lowest price/least equipment hours.

What should you be googling?!?!?! Nothing! Stay here and brainstorm on PondBoss! lol Take pictures too!

Trees on dam:

General rule of thumb is 6" and less diameter cut down, treat stumps so they won't re-grow. Larger than 6" diameter leave and pray that they don't die so the roots stay alive. Dead decaying roots leave pathways for water to go thru the dam.

First off you guys are awesome....

You have given me tons to think about. Here is a google earth location but the picture is before i made the pond a little bigger. 41* 11.2780N 93* 52.2729W

I don't live on the land but go there as much as I can. I'll make some measurements next time I'm down there.

For now I am going to remove any small trees from the dam. And clear out the brush and trashy plants from around the pond.

I found some pictures on my phone thought I'd share.

This one was a few days after we made the pond a bit bigger. Looking towards the dam.

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d164/DOA_2/imagejpg2.jpg

This one was this spring. Standing on the dam looking west.

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d164/DOA_2/imagejpg1.jpg

This was also this spring. Standing on dam looking north.

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d164/DOA_2/imagejpg1.jpg

Thanks again for your time...

I renovated my son's old pond where the dam had been breeched and had three or four feet of muck and basically completely dried up during a drought.

It was completely amazing the transformation. Your pond looks like you have a decent BOW to work with. Sons pond was a complete nothing. But the point I'm trying to make is, clearing out selective trees around the area completely transformed it. It does not even seem like the same place. Because of a very dry winter and spring it is only about 2/3 full and has not made it to full pool yet. Yet the family has been swimming, boating (Jon boat kids paddle around in) and the kids kayaking in it several times already this spring. They are going to get LOTS of use out of the pond that before was nothing more than an eyesore and weedy and brushy mess.

I think you will be amazed at the transformation once you get some clearing and a little maintenance done. Best of luck in your efforts.

Here is a link to what I did with son's old pond. I need to update with new pictures as he is building a dock and we are planning on building a bridge across one portion in a few weeks.

Son's refurbished pond

Just got back from the pond. My son was assigned the job of fishing. He caught 20 catfish in less than hour. 19 Bullhead and 1 Channel cat. They ranged from 4 inches to 6 inches. Basically there must be a lot of them in there. I looked for a trap locally but found none. Any thoughts on a good one I can order in.

While my son was fishing I started clearing the junk from the banks. What are the chances of me adding clay to both sides of the dam helping?

Thanks

During a light sprinkle rain yesterday I caught several 4-5" bullheads by hook and line. Everything was biting for about 30 minutes. So it looks like I may have caught some of the larger ones in the trap, but the smaller ones probably are too small and find their way back out. I may try to reduce the opening size of the trap because I think the mesh size is small enough to keep them in.

I bought my trap at Acadamy Sports. They had a couple different styles. The one I have is rectangular with openings in each end for the fish to enter and a bait container in the center. I can't tell you if it is a good trap or not, because other than a minnow trap it is the only fish trap I have ever used. I've caught several fish in it though.

This might work:

http://www.catfish1.com/forums/showthread.php?38891-A-Bream-Trap-You-Can-Build-Yourself

As far as adding clay to both sides of the dam helping, yes I think it could if you have it readily available and the equipment to do the job.

I put some of the excess dirt and clay I cleaned out of the ponds I refurbished on the back side of the dam. Two of the three dams had a lot of trees on them. Many older ponds around here had steep dams where the back side of the dam was too steep to mow and maintain. I used the excess material removed from the pond to fill in the back side and make a nice slope so it is easily mowed. BUT...... the two ponds I did this on have not filled all the way yet. So I can't say for sure my efforts are a complete success. Waiting on enough rain to get some runoff to fill the ponds.

But I see no reason if you can add a compacted layer of clay on a dam surface how it would be any different than putting a clay liner in the bottom of a pond. The inner surface would be better, but enough on the back side would be no different than adding a complete new dam on the back side of the old dam. How thick would the clay need to be? Don't know. But thicker would be better and sealing the back side would take a thicker layer than sealing the front side, in my non-expert opinion. The front side would only require a sealing layer with the existing dam providing the structural strength. Sealing the back side would require the layer of clay to stand up to whatever hydraulic pressure was being applied through the dam from the water height so would not only require sealing ability but structural strength.

Like snrub said, for sealing, the clay needs to be very well compacted and on the front side to seal. The water pressure, though not high, will push against the seal and the weigh of the rest of the Dam provides a solid structure. On the back side, the water would simply go through the Dam soils, lift the clay, and run under it, or find a weak spot and push through. Since the clay needs to be/remain slightly moist and elastic to seal, it must have a solid structure behind to support it.

Rainman made me think about what I said about sealing the back side of the dam. He makes good points. You could seal from the back side, but essentially you would need to basically create nearly a whole new dam. One with enough physical structure that it could hold the water pressure and seal all the way down as far as needed.

In most cases this would not be practical, but in certain situations it could be. For example, I just dug a sediment pond ahead of my main pond. It was a complete "dug" pond so everything that came out of it became a big pile of excavation material. Since I was near the top of the hill and we have a clay pan soil, it is nearly all clay. Had I needed clay for some purpose, I have nearly a quarter acre of it 7'+ deep.

So if you happen to have a place you need a hole dug and the hole happens to have plentiful clay, fixing a dam from the back side "could" be done, but in most cases will not be the best route for the amount of material to be moved. It is one of those situations that happens so very often on PBF, "it all depends". Lots of things can be done in certain situations that may not apply to "most" situations, and getting someone who knows what they are doing with ponds and working with soils and construction equipment for your particular situation is the best route.

My old pond that I refurbished had enough clay from the new addition portion of the excavation that I basically built a complete new dam on the back side of the old breeched, skinny one. It has held..........so far. Now I have a nice, wide, gently sloping dam that is easy to mow. It was fixed in the breech area and then the back side, but the back side has enough material to have made a complete new additional skinny dam.

As far as simply putting a patch or plug from the back side of the dam, it likely would not work for reasons Rainman stated. It would take a lot more in the way of material to do the job from the back side than from the front side.

I'll make one or two of those traps. Not sure mine will look that nice though.

A neighbor offered to pull some larger Big Mouth Bass from one of his ponds and put them in mine. Is that a good idea?

Last fall when I dug my pond bigger I piled a large mound of dirt and clay near the pond. My thought is to put that pile on the back side of the dam. Next year or so when I build the sediment pond and dig out the old pond I'm planning to use that material on the front side

And for my fun project this year I'm going to build my ducks a floating house.

I believe I would pass on the larger bass. They will probably throw a monkey wrench into the whole works when they eat the fish that you need for breeding.

You might regret stocking the crappie.

Hey DD I agree he is doing some things backwards and really putting himself farther back, but haven't we all?

Paddle,

1. I would not put the LMB in there either. Your already stocked wrong so don't do the LMB.

2. Even though they are Black Crappie they should not have gone into a pond as small as yours. They just take over very quick! And they compete for forage food. Read on here about Crappie.

3. I think you need to drain the pond and kill everything off. Sorry but your never gonna get all them CC or Bull heads out of there. If the other fish you put in there were smaller most of them are more than likely gone anyway and became food.

There is all kinds of info on here about draining your pond and starting over you may want to read about it also.

Here is the one thing I can tell you. Before you do anything else ask!! Or read out hear first and it may very well keep you from spending a lot of time and work on something you may not should have done in the first place!

Good Luck bud keep us posted,

RC

I have already decided I will have to drain the pond to fix the dam. It's going to have to be later after I build the sediment pond. I'll tell my neighbor to hold off on putting Bass in though.

I do wish I could find something to do with all the Bullheads. Last batch we caught got buried.

Thanks and it is clear this forum is an extremely valuable resource. For instance I have an well at the other end of the property and am thinking I might start pumping water from that down the pond at some point. The well looks hand dug and has rocks along the side. I built a small shed over it right after I bought the property so nothing would fall in it. I'll have to take some pictures of it later.

Yeah that's cool just get some sort of water test kit to check it first for basic stuff to make sure it's fit for fish!

Keep this in mind paddle if you going to drain it soon say in a year or so you can do what you want if your going to drain and kill it off. So if you want some LMB in there to kill of some of the bullheads then do it if your dead set on draining and killing it off at some point in the near future. Now is your time to expierment if your going to break it all down in the next year. But if you going to leave it alone for a while I would try to come up with a better plan of action for stocking.

Good Luck it looks like a nice pond and something to work with!!

RC

Natures clean up crew will help somewhat with the fish.

You might want to drain your pond sooner than later.. trying to get into a pond that is filled with muck in a bulldozer is not fun you want it to dry out good before you pull any equipment into it..

Thats a good point too! I have been told that pond muck can take a year to dry out it may look cracked and dry on the surface but still a mess under it. The dryer the better when it comes to cleaning it out!

RC

You got a ton of options man, is your head spinning yet?

"I do wish I could find something to do with all the Bullheads. Last batch we caught got buried."

My wife cleaned a mess yesterday, most of them only 8" long. Filleted them out. I would not have, but hey, she took it on herself. Got about a pound of meat. She is pretty good with a knife as our TV is always on some cooking channel and she is a great cook.

We did start catching more small ones by hook and line and when I closed up the size of the opening in our trap and caught one small one in the trap last night. Bullhead guts and remains are a fine bait for the trap, by the way.

Last time I ate any Bullheads I was probably too young to remember it. But I know my mom would have cooked some in my lifetime. We will see how they are. They looked in great shape. They should be........been eating my fish pellets.

Probably an exercise in futility, but it keeps us occupied and we have a main pond that has no bullheads, so this pond is kind of just an experimental pond for us and me to play with and try things.

I don't expect to get them all, but if we can reduce the number that spawn later this summer, the other fish might be able to get the upper hand on them and they become a minor fish.

I find bullheads to be pretty tasty.

Had some of the bullheads tonight. Along with one small BG that got gill hooked. Both were very tasty. I'm not a big catfish fan (a little too oily for my taste - its "ok" but not usually "great") but wife did a great job battered and deep fried and I could eat that anytime. If our CC taste that good, I'll be a catfish eating convert.

I'll have talk to the Mrs. But cleaning 20-50 4" Bullheads sounds like more work than it's worth. Planning on building a trap next week. So might be eating them for the rest if the summer.

Thanks for all in input and suggestions. Y'all got me all fired on getting this old pond going.

Oh and I got my first issue of Pond Boss Mag yesterday.

Yes, 4" would be a no-go for even my wife. Funny thing is some of the first we caught were really pretty nice fish. One was probably in the 11-12" range. We got rid of them! It was only later that she decided to try cleaning and eating some. Most she cleaned were in the 6"-9" range with the 6" being questionable. Have not caught any more of the larger size. If she liked to just cut the head off and leave bone in the smaller ones could probably be harvested. But she is into fillets with no bones and I like deep fried fish nuggets so I don't interfere with her endeavor. If we catch any larger ones though, they definitely will be eaten.

I have to think that these bullheads are all pretty young and have grown fast on the fish food I've been feeding and that helps with the taste. An old bullhead taken out of a creek might not taste the same. What something eats definitely can change the flavor.

I really don't mind some bullheads and GSF in this old refurbished pond. It's not like it is my only pond. What I do mind is if they take over the pond, multiply too much and stunt, and basically ruin the pond. If I can manage to keep them somewhat in check they will add to the diversity of fish to catch.

Got to say one thing positive about GSF and bullheads. They don't mind biting a hook when other fish are persnickety.

I just finished my first attemp on a catfish trap. I'm sure my next one will be better.

Will post my results later.



Also now that I know how to post pics here is a Google Earth picture.

Yes, please let us know how the trap works.

As an accident, I found out today a minnow trap can catch a lot of small bullheads.

I had a plastic minnow trap that had a fairly small opening and it would only catch mostly FHM's with an occasional very small BG. Decided I wanted another minnow trap and liked the looks of the metal ones so bought one from Academy Sports. It had a larger opening.

The larger opening catches a lot of 2-3" BG, which I did not particularly want as FHM was my target. On a lark decided to take this trap down to my old pond to see if I could catch some GSF. Had been catching a bunch on a #10 hook about 2' out from the bank and removing them. Put some pellets in for bait and checked it in about 45 minutes. Had 22 bullheads about 4-5" long. Put more feed and checked it again in 15 minutes. Had 4 more BH and one GSF.

Looks like i got BH's bad. Need to get some LMB in there before they get too big.

So if you have a minnow trap with about an inch opening, might try that and see what you get.

The trap shown caught 6 BH in about 45 mins using 1 small can of wet dog food and 1 small can of wet cat food. I threw it back and checked it a couple days later and it had 26 more. I made another one and only used cat food in both and only caught 7 more in 12 hours. Next time I'll try it on the other side of the pond.

So far of all these fish we have only seen one CC everything else has been BH.

Today was my first full day of cleaning debre from the dam. Only got it about 20% clear.

I knew I had some larger logs in the water. Someone cut a few trees down and let them fall in the water. We pulled 7 large rotten trees from the pond. That job was no fun at all. They were mostly submerged and stunk. We probly have more to find. After this disaster of log pulling I have a renewed urge to partially drain the pond so i can find more sunken logs.

What's a good cheap easy bait?

Dead fish. The ones you are removing. Edit: for catfish bait that is.

Fish pellets if your fish are used to eating them.

I use dead fish in the large trap and fish pellets in the minnow trap for bullheads.

I check my traps pretty often. If I wait 30 minutes or an hour, I get a lot of fish. Any longer than that, a lot escape.

I've noticed the same thing Dave. Better luck if I bait them, then go back and check within an hour or so.

Picture of Bullhead's in minnow trap. This was the second batch I caught. The first batch had 22 of them. The third batch they were progressively getting smaller in size and got a GSF and three shiners also.

Some of the ones that got in early (I presume) had their bellies so fat they looked like they were going to pop. They had gorged on the pellets I had put in the trap.

The ones I had been catching in the larger trap ranged from about 8"-12"

It's been quite a while...

An update is well over due.

I've been able to get quite a bit done. And failed at the main things.

I have completely cleared off the dam and can now easily walk around the entire pond.
Early this spring I made a syphon and brought the water way down. Cleared many of the dead trees and limbs from the bottom.

With a trash pump I had the water to about 15% left then we got a huge rain and basically filled it back up. The pond looks way better now.

My main problems are still there. Way to much muck / sludge and plenty of bullheads.

I have been using a pump and moving it around the bottom sucking up the muck. I figure I will never get it done this way but I also figured I have plenty of time.

The Bullhead issue is still frustrating me. While the water was low one evening we watch many many bullheads swing near the surface. The site was sickening but gave me an idea. I thought about setting up a feeder and "training" the fish to eat at a certain time. And maybe net them or catching them somehow.

How bad of an idea would it be to add a couple musky or northerns in the pond?

Thanks

Since it's a small pond and it doesn't sound as if you have much of a fishery established, I would personally drain it down, nuke with hydrated lime, allow it to dry out and make certain your BH population is gone, and start over. Draining will also allow you to excavate excessive organic material from pond bottom and start again. 40 years is a LONG time for such a small pond to live - it's deep in it's eutrophication process, and you'll likely be managing multiple water quality issues in a BOW that small and old moving forward season after season. In short, I personally feel you're fighting a losing battle managing your current BOW. Draining and nuking the BH population is a cheap procedure. Having someone remove organic material with an excavator will cost some - but I had this hired out on a 1/3 ac pond and increased depth by 5 feet in 2.5 hours. Cost me 5 cases of Coors Light and a couple bottles of JD, but he was a neighbor and friend who owned the equipment. Hired out I bet it would have cost around $1500 - and most of that would have been transportation fees.

How do you all place your fish food in the minnow traps? Just put it in there or do you put it in something to keep it on the bottom of the trap?

RC

I can't seem to catch anything in my traps?

I once found an acronym definition page on here.... Can't seem to find it now.

What does BOW stand for?
After last nights rain my pond is basically back to 100%.

Under Common Q&A.


http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=92442#Post92442

Good to hear from you again.

If you choose to not go the way suggested by TJ, here are some thoughts for what they are worth.

First, if you feed the bullheads you might actually find they grow big enough to eat and enjoy eating them. Some people really like eating bullheads. One of the biggest problems with BH is they reproduce so efficiently if predators are lacking, there are way more mouths to feed than resources available for them to grow so they never get to a size worth eating. By adding additional food the fish are allowed to grow to decent size.

I personally think they taste ok. I also am learning to manage BH in my old pond so am going through some of the same process as you.

I read an article on BH in farm ponds once (will try to find it and link to it if I can) that basically said they are a temporary "problem" once adequate predators are introduced. Once there is a population of LMB eventually all the BH reproduction is eliminated each year and eventually the remaining BH can be fished out or die of old age. So the article talked like people that actually enjoy BH to eat have trouble maintaining a population in a pond over time. Eventually LMB eliminate them. So the advice in the article just suggested managing the population by reducing the numbers by angling and introducing predators and enjoy the BH's while you have them because eventually they will be gone. Is the article correct? I don't know, but I'm sure there are other pond owners on here with more experience and can comment on it. So possibly by a combination of feeding (to grow them to eating size), trapping, angling, and adding predators the BH problem could go away over time...........if you are willing to allow the time for it to happen. Otherwise nuking the pond and starting over would be a quicker solution.

Like I said, I also am attempting to manage BH in my old pond. In a few years I might be able to give a more definite answer. My suggestions now are based only on what I have read and am currently trying.

Not the article I was looking for, but has information you might find useful about feeding and managing BH.
[url=www.nrcs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/nrcs142p2_042125.pdf[/url]

If you were interested in eating them, looks like you could feed them out.

Edit: sorry, I am on the road with only a tab type computer and can not edit the link to get it to work correctly. You will have to cut and paste it. It is a PDF file

Sorry, BOW = body of water = pond

Just keeping it in the trap not just on the bottom. Use a small wire cage out of the same material you made the trap out of. Or a pair of yourwife's old nylons. Thick cloth like a shirt doesn't work. Some baits hold together well. Try an onion. I have seen fish eat on a water melon and corn on the cob before but wouldn't make that a comm on practice.

Paddlefish dreams tj's axis is Probly the best but getting a predator in there to hammer them is next in line.

Traps and nets work too

Just about any piece of nylon that you can tie into a bag works. I like to dribble about a dozen or so actual pellets into the trap. After submerging the trap, toss a couple of handfuls of pellets around the trap. If I leave the trap in over 30 minutes, the fish get out.

A few have mentioned nuking the pond. What are the recommended ways to do this?

I'm really worried about nuking the pond.

A local fish hatchery told me they will have Musky this fall.

This weekend I'm going to make a better trap and get that going again.

Appropriate strategy depends on your goals. What are they? Do you want a fishery of stunted BH in a turbid pond? Do you want a balanced fishery of BG/LMB/CC/RES? Do you want trophy BG or RES? Trophy LMB? Balanced fishery? Maybe something entirely different, like a SMB/YP/HBG/WE fishery? You can do anything you want, and we can help get you there, but you need to decide what your ultimate goal for this fishery is. Based on your response, we can align the proper management strategy to get there.

Again, if it were me, I would not sinking my time, effort, and capital into trying to save a 40 year old 3/4 acre pond with stunted BH population which is likely deep into the eutrophication process meaning lots of organic material, silt, and water quality issues. Too many factor going against you from the onset. But again, everyone is different, it's your land and pond, and entirely up to you. Regardless we are here to help you get wherever you want to go.

"Nuking" the pond means raising the PH to a level lethal to your fish community through the use of hydrated lime. The process generally is pumping your pond down as far as you possibly can with a trash pump and applying a slurry into the pond until the PH reads 12 which should be lethal for all fish, including BH I assume. Net the morts and allow the pond to dry to ensure BH are eliminated, and start over.

If it were me, I'd schedule a trackhoe to excavate silt/organic material and any other adjustments you want to make like dykes, points, underwater humps, beach, etc. When modifications are made, allow pond to fill and start establishing your fishery.

To me, "nuking" a pond means either draining it and sterilizing it or not draining it and killing all the fish in the pond. That could be with Hydrated Lime or Rotenone.

BH are one of the tougher fish out there to kill to ensure that there is a 100% kill, so I would drain the pond down until there was enough water to get a boat around in it, then I would use one of the above methods and make sure that the correct application procedure was observed, and if there is any doubt, do a 2nd application about 2 weeks later.

From experience, don't do all that work to have two bullheads survive. They are tough durable critters that could tolerate significant lime and mild rotenone.

In addition to Bill and Scotts insight, BH can survive in moist mud for periods of time even without surface water - from what I've read. That's why I think allowing the pond to dry for a period of time would also be beneficial. If you want to renovate by adding depth, removing organic material/silt, ect the equipment would help ensure any surviving/hiding BH are removed. I'd go tabula rasa here in your shoes.

Due to the cheap cost of hydrated lime and stubborn nature of BH, I'd second Scott's vote and perform a second application. FYI my cost for hydrated lime was $9/50# bag.

One other consideration. Is there any source of re-infestation of trash fish? For example, a neighbors pond above yours that drains into your pond during high rainfall events?

If there is a chance BH can get back into the pond after all the fish are destroyed, it is important to get the desired fish established as quick as possible. Give them the upper hand. If it is a year before re-stocking, and in the mean time some more BH come into the pond before the correct fish get established, the problem can start all over.

I've thought a lot about this and I really would like to have a healthy pond with LMB that is fun to fish. While I'm not in a huge hurry I would like to keep moving forward. I did get a little frustrated because I was so close to having an empty pond. I think my best option is to drain the pond and hope to get it cleaned out correctly. My problem is the amount of run off I get. The water enters the pond from 2 places. I'm planning on starting the syphon again this weekend. I will also get a diagram/picture of the layout and ask for input on how I can get this done.

There isn't any ponds near me so I shouldn't get more BH.

What about using chlorine and shock it like a pool?

Thanks

Can you create a ditch that diverts the water around your work areas, keeping you dryer?

The heavy but spotty rains have been raising heck here in central Iowa.. Just chiming in (misery loves company, I guess)..

I might be able on one of the inlet areas. I'll have to build a dam and then cut a ditch to the side around the big pond. The other area has a lot of trees and is much wider.

I started a small pump tonight and will work on the syphon tomorrow. I ordered this...

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200456972_200456972

I'm going to put it in the lowest spot I can find and let it run.

A siphon will work 24/7, no gas, no refilling, cheaper and easier - just a thought.

If you plan on renovating the pond, it would be helpful to temporarily divert runoff so you can work with a dry basin. Although a trackhoe can still dig fine underwater - you won't have access to basin for compacting soils or other work if you wanted to do that. Another concern about not being able to see the basin during renovation is running the risk of hitting a gravel vein. Underwater you'll never know it - but dry you will and can fix it when you encounter it.

I would definitely check google earth and verify there are not BOWs upstream of you that could flood during heavy rain events. Reintroduction of invasive species would be a nightmare, obviously, and your efforts and money would be wasted.

Definitely worth the time and effort to do it. I had to do this on mine, and saved me days, if not weeks, of pumping. Still had to pump, just not nearly as much. Now if someone else is doing your excavating, they may have a huge pump where they will dig a hole where it is coming in and pump non stop till their done working.

As TJ says, siphons are great, but you need to have the outlet lower than the inlet. Not always possible.

A syphon will only take the pond down about half way. My back side drop isn't low enough. I was planning on setting it back up today. Also planning on building the dam on the silt pond thing to block some water from getting in today and tomorrow.

I will need to hire out the big pond clean out. Anyone know someone with experience in the area?

I met with Dave's Dozing I'm waiting to hear back on his proposal.

With the syphon running again the water is dropping again.

Update...

I have drained the pond 3 times only to have Mother Nature fill it back up. The muck is crazy thick. Placing a pump in the deepest part I sunk up to my knees in muck and got stuck. Had have someone pull me out with a rope tied around my knee. Have to place pallets to walk on to get work done. And they float when the pond fills up.

Now to the even more frustrating thing. I have called 6 contractors trying to find someone to fix my pond. 1 said I was to far. 2 never returned my phone call. 1 met with me but have yet to provide an estimate. Each time I call he says call me back in a week. 1 showed up to look at it two days later than he said he would. Then rescheduled and never showed up and won't return my calls. My last ditch effort I talked to a customer who builds basements. He said his machine operator could do it. I called him and he didn't show up during our planned time. I talked to my customer again and low and behold I promptly got a phone call and he is supposed to look at my pond this weekend.

Snow shoes make for a great way to get around on mud and muck.

A wet season or year is a bad time to try and clean out a pond. Mother Nature has not cooperated too well this year for such projects over a lot of the nation.

A severe drought is the best time to do it. But no one wants to see that either.

Hey Squid, just thinking. I have never even seen a set of snow shoes.

That will make it all the more fun wearing some in 100 plus heat! They worked great for getting around my new pond, when the soil was nothing but chewing gum. Without them, I feared for my life asi could not get out of the hole for the weight of stuck mud and sliding back in.

http://www.forestry-suppliers.com/product_pages/Products.asp?mi=35511

Those are neat.

Well finally got my first real estimate. And I fell over. The first and only person to give me a number came in at 20-25k. First of all there is absolutely no way I can afford that. He wants to push up some dirt to make a sludge retaining area behind the dam and park his excavator on the dam and use a dozen to push the muck to the excavator. I can't for the life of me figure why it could possibly cost that much. Heck I can buy a used backhoe for 20k. So back to the drawing board for me. With that kind of money maybe I should change my line of business.

Dealing with pond muck is no fun. Likely why you are having trouble getting contractors to return calls. I have only used a dozer in the ponds I have cleaned out. The guys that do it regularly around here do it as you described. Use an excavator to scoop out the muck and a dozer to crowd it to the excavator. I would love to have an excavator.

It might be cheaper to build a new pond from scratch in a new location than to clean the old one out. Problem with that is, often times the pond to be cleaned out is in a strategic location and is the only desirable location for a pond. Thus the necessity of cleaning it out rather than building new.

I'm not a contractor, just a farmer with some construction equipment. But I know if I was a contractor I would much rather run machines building a new pond than cleaning out an old one. It is not the most desirable heavy equipment job in the world.