I bought the ten acres adjacent to my existing property, and it has a large pond on it. This drought has totally dried it up, and now is the time to make improvents in it. Here's the first of many pictures. I'd like to get your advice on what to do while awaiting the rain...besides pray, that is.

Here's a few pictures to show what I'm starting with. I want to set this pond up for LMB and BG.

What to do to improve while its dry.

1) solve why its dry, figure out a way to help stop that agian.
2) decide what fish you want in there to get the right habitat placed for them.
3) If its dry because of drought consider going deeper (not wider) so it has more water reserve.

Or figure out how to channel more runoff to it.

Where are you?

Dave, I'm right up the road from you in Clay County, where the Wichita/Clay/Archer county corners meet.

Yeah, flowing water has been real scarce for a long time. I know I have a picture from around ten years ago when that pond was full. I'll have to find it. It wasn't mine, so I didn't pay it too much attention back then.

Yeah, not much question about why it's dry. I had a buddy, now deceased, who would mention things in the past. He would say "You know; back when it used to rain.".

You're in the area that sees dark clouds with mixed emotions.

This is what it looked like in 2001 from the top of my house. Very impressive, I think. In a wetter part of the world, it'd probably stay this way, but when it doesn't rain...

What a loss.

I ran my loader bucket into the muck to see how deep it was, and it appears to be around 6 to 8 inches. Sounds good, especially in this red clay we have. If I'm wrong, please let me know. Working under the asumption that the muck will help keep the water clear (mud-free), I'm really debating the value of losing it compared to making the tank deeper. Anyone care to offer their thoughts on this?

In our area, it seems folly to not capture all the water you can when it finally rains. Generally, dirty water will clear.

Not sure if it's wise to keep the muck. If you have turbidity problems after the pond fills, there are ways to deal with that. It's much harder to make more water appear.

Thanks guys...it looks like I need to make a call or two tomorrow about renting a track hoe.

If that's all the accumulated muck you have, it doesn't look like a big deal.

Mobilus, from the pics, it almost looks like the dam is on the high side of the pond. How much watershed does this pond have?

That satellite photo shows two ponds. Is the other one as low as yours? Does the other one fill faster when it rains (more watershed to it? better built?). At their current water levels, are they the same depths?

As far as going and renting a trackhoe, are you thinking to just remove the muck layer or digging deeper. This is a quote from DD1 he just had in another thread, and it is good standard advice to all pond owners.


"There are a lot of dozer drivers who can push dirt and clear land. Not a lot know how to build ponds. For that, it takes a guy who knows about keyways(coring), packing with a sheepsfoot roller, local soils, your soil, and runoff areas.

The biggest recommendation is to hang around here and learn about pond building. You will learn a lot. And, it is your pond. Don't get in a hurry."

Dave, that's as deep as the muck gets.

FireIsHot, the dam is on the low side. I know that from the front of my initial property (ten acres directly above this new lot)to the back the fall is around 7 to 8 feet. So the pond has all of the twenty acres once the small pond above it is full. I know that is part of the reason this one is empty...but it is stocked with CC and BG. So until we get rain, that one is the priority. Once it overflows, all excess water will shed to the big pond. Trouble is, we haven't had enough water to make that happen since I dug the small pond,

Fish n chips, the other one is pretty low now. All I can see are lilly pads over its whole surface. It may be a little deeper. They are on the same elevation...this one is the driest, probably because the bottom is flatter.

I was thinking of digging deeper, maybe another 4 feet or so in the shape of where the water was last...kind of a last ditch reservoir in case of another drought.

I really value this forum. You guys are a wealth of knowledge and I appreciate your input.

That's not a whole lot. Can you raise the dam?

Dave, if I dig it out, how much deeper do you suggest?

Should I focus on a section in the center, say 50' by 150' or so, and dig that out ten feet or so?

This is red clay to the center of the earth as far as I know, so would there be any reason not to go hog wild and make it as deep as I can? I've got a line on a JD 180G that I hope pans out for a few days. I think the layout of the pond is good, just maybe too shallow for its size...for here anyways.

I'm thinking of concentrating on a smaller footprint so that in the event of another drought, the water remaining would have less surface area and not evaporate as fast?

I know that I have a lot of questions, so thanks in advance for your help.

I think that maybe, Dave was asking if you could raise the dam, as a way to gain more depth. Seems logical. That way, you wouldn't have to disturb the established pond bottom.


I wonder if that muck would be a good compost to add to garden soil. It certainly looks rich.

Dave probably has the best feel for your situation down there, but a few thoughts from me.

You have the right idea about making surface area smaller so evaporation amount will be reduced in ratio to size. If you make the pond deeper, you could put the overburden around the edges and make it smaller, so you have less surface area. Drawbacks would be steeper sides that may not be mowable when the pond goes down.

If you go deeper, that then should be compacted. The ability to do this depends. If you go deeper, will it fill with water as you work. Sounds like you have good clay, the water shouldn't be flowing into it while you work. But if the water does flow into it, then you have to deal with how to fix that problem.

If you dig, do you have a way to haul and move that dirt?

I think this is why Dave was wondering if you could just raise water level to accomplish the same thing as digging.

Dave, what about Otto? ( I know, Texas is big .)

I'm not sure, but while waiting on the excavator, I'm going to move some of it into a pile so that I can try mixing it into raised beds for the Fall.

I don't think raising the dam is the answer to this one. It might help hide the new house built behind it, but it won't help raise the water level. Too much of the "flood zone" is too shallow (to my untrained eye) already.

And as to the clay that I remove, the idea of controlling the surface size by adding it around the edges might work. But the pasture area around it looks pretty now, and is well established in grass. I have a compact utility tractor, so I can move the clay around after the excavator rental done.

I'm mowing the new property now, and will post some pictures of that soon, as it shows the current structure better than the previous ones did...too many weeds.

Sorry, been out of town for the last week dealing with a bunch of Pond Boss lowlifes. Raising the dam to impound more water is a lot easier/cheaper than trying to figure out how to dig out pudding.

Mike Otto is in the area. Call him at 800 882-3478.

Here's a picture that might give a little more perspective to the size of the dam as it is now.


After I mowed the area, I realized that the builder had put in mounds in several locations. At full pool these were probably a few feet beneath the surface.




I'm considering elongating them when I dig. Most of the dirt can be added to the dam, but I like the idea of "fingers" extending into the deeper area.

Dave, I contacted the regional NRCS folks before I finalized the purchase, and was told to wait until I had deed in hand to seek their help. They mainly focus on water retention ponds for agricultural purposes, and don't give advice on pond design with fishing in mind. I need to touch base with them again.

I'll contact Mike Otto. I really need to keep this renovation on the cheap, however, and will probably do most of the work myself...I have 11 furlough days coming over the next few months, so I'll have more time than money. Good advice is generally worth what you have to pay...

Is your property zoned so you could have a couple of beef cattle on it? If so, tell NRCS that you are considering raising some, and want to impound water so you have a ready supply for them to drink.

esshup, we have no restrictions in the community, and yes, we are planning on putting a few head of cattle on it by year's end.

I've been busy, not on the pond as much as I'd like, but with travel and family issues. I have made about a million trips with my little Kubota digging out the muck and depositing it on the dam. At 1/3 yard per trip, it's a long process. I consoled myself by remembering my grandfather dug his pond with a slip pan and a couple of mules.

Got a lot done while not rushing (as advised here back in June) and during that time I figured that a John Deere 524K wheeled loader with a 2.5 yard bucket is a smarter move than the excavator. I can get a lot more done with a week's rental...so, in the next few days I'll have one delivered and take a couple days off work. It'll be my version of Disney World...y'all wish me luck. I'll take a few pictures.

I had pulled a lot of muck and clay out of the pond with my little Kubota, but it hadn't accomplished much other than proving to myself just how detrimental the muck was to retaining what little water we've gotten. After our one good hard rain, retention without the evaporative effects of the muck was evidently much better. There's still a bit of muck out in the center of the water...not for long though.


DSC - 4087 pic before starting with loader

Problem was, it still wasn't anywhere near deep enough...and the work with the tractor was just too slow. My intent was/is to get this pond ready for the rain whenever it comes, so on to the big boy toy. The JD 524K wheeled loader is the ticket, and I'm about six hours into the 40 hour rental. Doesn't look like much in the picture, but I'm happy with the progress.

You know that you're in a north Texas drought when you take the time and effort to save every drop of water...a cheap Harbor Freight pump and some leaky fire hose, some IBCs and a trailer...we moved around 8K gallons to water trees and to the small pond.




The second day and the project is beginning to take rough shape, but it's giving me an approximate timeframe for what I want to accomplish.

Nice progress report and photo series. Thanks for taking the time to do it.

Your right, that muck can hold a lot of water yet it looks like solid ground. Getting it out of there can never hurt. Looks like you have a lot of dirt to move!!! If I was in your same situation, I'd be saving every bit of water too.


Jim

Thanks for the compliment, Jim.

At the end of the loader rental, I think it was definitely worth it...although I'm glad to get out of the machine! 40 operating ours in a week's time is a lot of windshield time.

Speaking of windshields...if you ever find yourself in one of these pieces of equipment, WEAR YOUR SEATBELT! Once I had finished digging out the pond, I switched gears (literally) to moving the berm of dirt that came out of the small pond near the house. I made countless trips back and forth from the berm to the dam of the new pond, and on one of those trips hit a depression in the pasture that caused the loader to buck forward. Instead of dropping the bucket, I hit the brakes, and my forehead made contact with the windshield. The only suffering I'm doing is paying the $500 for the glass and $300 to install it. So, even on flat ground, you never know. Protect your body, wear your seatbelt. Protect your wallet, wear your seatbelt.

Anyway, I parked my truck at the dam end so that the scale is a little more visible. If I am to go deeper, I need an excavator because the blue clay is harder than...well, you know. The picture doesn't do it justice, and I haven't pulled any measurements yet, but we're headed in the right direction. Now, for some rain!



Next, I'll start carving in some ledges and adding cover.

Cripes, consistently you guys in Texas are not shy of doing things bigger! I wish...

liquidsquid, you make a pretty valid point. Here's my new shooting range, still in work, hopefully finished soon with lighting and a gazebo to hang out under. This stuff drives my wife crazy...but she's still around.

That's neat. I started out with just a mound of dirt. However, over the years, it has just about disappeared. I'm starting on a new one this weekend but it won't be as good as yours. That looks like a lot of work. Well done.

BTW, I have a picnic table that looks about like yours. I've been "gonna fix it" for years.

That's a really nice backstop!!!

Thanks for the compliments on the shootin' gallery. I had to relocate it due to the house that was built in-line with my old one...so I went bigger this time. We enjoy shooting.

I got a lot done on installing the cover in the new pond. Using what I had on hand, this is where I'm at now. I will be getting some pea gravel to make a few beds, and I'll add some concrete chunks in mounds as soon as I go get it. I cut in a few shelves along the slope as well. I kept all this in the shallow end because the grandkids and I will swim the deep end.

Please critique it and let me know what more I can do and what to improve on. Hopefully, it'll start raining one day and I don't want to have any "I should have" thoughts then.

First, those yard tools ain't gonna help a whole lot.

Overall, I like it but you need to strap or use aluminum wire to tie everything together. None of that stuff is going to stay together by itself. But, I figure you know that.

Are you going to put any closer to shore so small fish have someplace to hide? I prefer cedar. If you only have mesquite, come on down to Bowie and I can fix you up in a hurry.

I knew someone would comment on those tools! Believe me, they'll find their way back into the shed!

Aluminum wire! Dagnabit, every time I haul off some scrap I find a use for what i just got rid of! I'll hit up an electrician friend of mine. Yes, I have already driven a few pieces of rebar in, and bent them over some of the larger pieces, but I have yet to do the rest.

You recognized the mesquite, I see. I don't have any cedar, and I might just take you up on your offer. I'll time it with a trip to Second Monday.

BTW, if you get any rain to fill the water hole, send some South.

We're still "under the dome", so it seems...the rain either passes to the North/West or over in the East. It's a shame that some of that rain in Colorado didn't get spread out over us.

Weather is unlike anything I remember in my 50 years, the new norm is too much in too little time for any given area while a great majority of the land is parched.

My constant hope is that I'll see that pond overflowing before I die...seems like a good way to wish for a long life.

Ok, that made me LOL!

My thoughts as of late as we have been skipped at my location quite often with our "Wet" year. Pond is now down 2' and counting. Lost a lot of water to steam last night since the pond was 70F, and we had our first frost.

liquidsquid, I never really thought about the increased water loss from steam, it is such a rare event here.

I remember seeing it all the time while growing up in Alabama. Beautiful sight to see as you come up on a creek while driving early in the morning. Silly as it is, when I was about five years old, my grandmother told me that it was caused by frogs cooking their breakfast. Funny how simple things like that come to mind when thinking about water. I've had some great experiences on/around water and that is a major reason I started my first pond...I want my grandkids to have similar memories.

We've been under that dome for quite a while. I was in Bowie last Friday. It rained pretty hard. By the time I got 4 miles South, I was kicking up dust on the road. Later a heckuva storm hit Sunset about 5 miles South. Me? nada!

re: backstop.

I have something like that planned, but never got around to doing it yet. What I also planned on doing was having a false front that was about 18" in front of the railroad ties in the back. I'd fill that with sand so it would catch the bullets, and they wouldn't chew up the RR ties.

Sure, the wood would go bad, and it'd have to be replaced, but at the same time I'd sift the sand for the lead/copper.

Haven't decided yet whether to make target butts in the ground to place 1"x2"s to staple the paper targets to, or use a plywood front that would have the targets stapled directly to it. Just add another sheet of plywood when it got too shot up, then when it really got bad, do the replace/sift thing.

I'm about to build one out of 4x6 timbers. It will be about 4 ft high and 5 ft wide. Surely, I can keep a bullet within 20 sq ft.

Scott, I don't worry much about sifting for lead. I have about 100 lbs of wheel weight lead that I've accumulated. I buy them from a small recycling place for 50 cents per pound. That's about what they get at the large recycling place. Of course, an occasional 6 pack of beer is involved. I haven't actually casted any boolits in over 20 years. But, I'm thinking about it.

re: backstop:

esshup, I got the pier posts from a demo job I did at the lake. That's the back layer holding back the berm. When we bought the new place, it had the big loading dock timbers on it. I had enough so that I could double up the material in the bullet catching zone. I had used plywood the way you describe on my last one...worked pretty good.

Dave, no doubt the backstop is huge for experienced shooters, but we have a lot of friends/family that are just getting into shooting. That's why I built it so big.

Y'all have a great day!

Mobilus, thanks for the feedback. Good information to know from practical experience!


Dave:

If mounting a scope on a semi-auto, and firing it for the first time at 100 yds, there's the possibility that the backstop won't be large enough. Plus I've seen inexperienced shooters where a side of a barn wouldn't be large enough......

Scott, it just may not be big enough for me anyway.

The rain we got last week resulted in a good catch for as little as we got...1.25 inches. Still, it's a start, and looks good.







I've added pea gravel in this bowl...and have a couple smaller ones out there as well.



I finished the fingers that hopefully will project out into the water one day.



I finally measured it...about 350' long x 85' wide in deepest area. At full pool, about 300' wide. So that's 2.4 acres if full. Smaller than I first thought...

One of the things to keep in mind is the stocking rates in arid areas. You need to stock by what you think you will have if it doesn't rain a lot.

Got a crystal ball handy?

No crystal ball...but everywhere I go now all I hear is a lot of hope for the wettest Fall in history. After Fall passes, I guess I'll be hearing the same about Winter. The local churches have spent a lot of money on signs urging people to pray for rain.

I made a few "artificial bushes" out of old plastic pipe I had. The wife is glad I'm using up some of my "junk".



So far, we've gotten 1 3/4 inches of rain since I finished digging.


Does anyone see anything that I should be doing while it is still basically empty?

Dave, I do want to get a trailer load of those cedars from you. Think you'll be in Bowie the weekend of Oct 12? I'll be happy to buy lunch...

One more question:

I started making a steel flag pole to go in the deepest part of the pond, with welded hash marks at one foot increments and numbers at 5, 10, 15 and 20. Then I thought that it might make too good of a perch for hawks, etc.

What do you think? Should I or not?

Perhaps, you could put a spike on top of the pole to discourage hawks
from perching.

I enjoy watching Red Tail hawks swoop down and snag frogs from my pond. It's not quite as exciting as watching an eagle snag a fish, but, it's pretty cool.

On the 12th I have a wedding to attend but I know of no reason that I can't make it on the 13th.

I wouldn't worry about an occasional hawk perching there. Crows do a pretty good job of running them off anyway.

Give me a call when the date is coming up. My cell is 817 832 4724.

BTW, I tell my Wife that the junk is surplus building materials.

I met Dave Davidson last Sunday. He's a great guy and allowed me to cut some cedars for the pond. Thanks, Dave!

Hey, looks good. Like I said, any time you need more, just let me know. Actually, I wouldn't put in anymore than you already have.

If it ever rains again you might actually get to stock it.

One weather report that I saw said that Bowie got 3.84 inches of rain. That's hard to believe but I'm heading there with my Grandson today for a couple of days of bow hunting. I'll know later today whether it's true.

Dave, thanks for the feedback. I'm finished with cover until it overfills the main bowl, then I might add some brush in the shallows. Now on to other projects.

We got 1.5 inches of rain Thurs evening/Friday. I'd love to see some 4" downpours!

Good luck on the hunting trip!

Hey, I got 3 inches but, according to neighbors, it came slowly. My pond came up about 6 inches. Now that things are wet, I need a frog strangler.

Good deal! If we can keep getting these rains like we have been, maybe when we get a gully-washer, it'll run downhill a ways before getting sucked up by the dry ground.

Might be time to fry up some frog legs!

How you making out, get any rain yet?

Nope. Sad state of affairs too. The city just went to Stage Four water restrictions, which mean absolutely no watering, washing cars, etc. The combined lake levels have fallen to 30% now and the arguments over what should have been done sooner are commonplace.

As for me, from the couple of storms that we have seen in the past couple of months, I have maybe a foot or two in the pond. I haven't measured it, but it seems to be holding steady.

My small pond has been pretty steady, and is around three or four feet low. Not bad enough to affect the fish population. These last two cold fronts have lowered the water temp enough to slow feeding considerably. In the 20s the last couple of nights.

I'm building a new equipment shed/shop and will install gutters to collect what rain we get, to be piped directly to the smaller pond a hundred feet or so away. Lots of activity like that in the area. If people can collect it, they are doing so for the most part.

I actually got 9/10 inch last week. So far, it has kept my wheat from dying.

Dave, it sprinkled just a little bit. Weatherman said 1/100th of an inch. I'm glad you're getting some rain. You know that TV show "Under the Dome" from the Stephen King book? Seems like that's what's going on here. Storm fronts have had a way of splitting up as they approach our area...like a giant bubble forced it. It'll rain soon...I hope.

I put the flag pole/water guage in the pond this afternoon. Let's just say that water temp was already a little on the cool side! Pics to come...this getting dark at 6:00 pm is for the birds!

Mark

We were down at the pond yesterday and it was COLD!

Here's the grandkids (two of 'em, anyway) presenting the pond depth guage...or flag pole...or both.



And as another year winds down...

When we bought the land, there was a small 10x10' open shed that was used for shooting from a long time ago. It was a POS and we watched this last fall as it got a little more rickety with every decent wind. It fell, and that added one more chore to the list.



If we ever see enough rain to fill the pond, we want to use the area for social gatherings, and well, a pavilion of some sort is needed...especially here in Texas. So, since I am building another shop on the original adjacent ten acres, two existing structures are to be torn down and the tin (we still call it that, even though it's not "tin" anymore) will be "repurposed" for this pavilion.

I took some 2 3/8" oilfield pipe that I already had and put up four poles and once they had set, I saddled them and welded in a cross piece.



Added a 2' upright and tabs on the outside ends to hold the upper part of the truss.





Welded tabs on for the purlin to be welded to.



Added some base angle to cover the lookouts.



And now I have another dilemma: I really like the extra 2' of over hang that would be gained by adding one more purlin per side. But I'd either have to run two rows of tin (my soon-to-be-repurposed sheets are 8') or buy new custom cut material (easier, but more money). Anyway, as I ponder this, this is where we stand so far.

I'll be glad when it warms up a bit, but some chores have to be done regardless of the cold. Today I placed a few "contained piles" of broken tile from our house remodel. Those are well-seasoned oak pallets, and there are no harmful chemicals in the ceramic tile. Hopefully they will be a great source of bio matter...

We got a decent little rain today! I'm stoked! I actually saw water running toward my ponds for the first time in a long while.

Turned out we had exactly one inch of rain. Could be that the cloud-seeding actually works...or not.

My last post on this thread was about 17 months ago. I really didn't know if the gamble would pay off, but I labored away at everything that I thought might make a difference if we ever got rain. Well, we did...back in May.















The water level has fallen about a foot or so since these pictures were taken, and the mud has fallen out. More pictures to follow.



Sometimes you just have to dream a bit, then work toward that dream.

I absolutely love that last picture posted....sunrise or sunset, I'd want to be watching both, every day!

Well done, Mobilus, well done!

Pond looks a lot better with water in it!

Glad you finally got some and can now enjoy it.

Mark, how has it held up in the last 40 days?