Attached are pictures of a 30+ acre project my brother and I are working on.

Originally, this was a flooded peat strip mine 3-5 feet deep. Friends with excavators installed two Agri Drain units (12" inlet, 18" drain) and created about 5 peninsulas with adjacent 12-15 ft deep holes for fish to survive our Illinois winters.

The only evidence of existing fish were two dead 3"-4" grass carp and a live bullhead sighting. There are numerous 10" turtles and thousands of large frogs, but I'm guessing the shallowness of the pond and winter kills kept any significant fish population from establishing itself. When the pond was drawn down for installation of the Agri Drains, there was no evidence of large carp.

A few weeks ago, 40lbs of fathead minnows were added and at present, we believe there are few if any predators for them to encounter. The plan is to attach some plastic jugs filled with dirt and Smart Weed (from my backyard pond) to the pallets and sink them in the deep holes. Hopefully, between the newly flooded weed beds and 14 pallet structures, they will be able to establish themselves, reproduce and survive the winters.

We'll soon introduce some channel catfish as predators to hopefully eat any small carp and keep them from becoming too established and sink some small garbage cans in the deep holes for the catfish as well.

I've been re-thinking the whole catfish-bluegill-bass stocking formula and am considering going with catfish-crappie-northern pike. From what I've read, the crappies are hearty, prolific breeders, grow large and are better suited in large bodies of water.

Stocking a pond of this size per the recommended quantities minnows-bluegill-bass would be expensive. I'm thinking if we go with crappie, they will have plenty of food and space to grow for a few years before any danger of stunting. At the end of year 2 or sometime in year 3 we can introduce northern pike as the master predator to possibly keep the crappie population in check.

In a few years we hope to end up with large catfish, large pike and large crappie. At the very least, we should see large catfish and large pike.

It appears most of the posters on this site are not big fans of crappie and pike, but I'm guessing that has more to do with trying to manage their population with bass in a smaller pond.

Anyone see any flaws in this approach?

Check with your regional fisheries biologist with the IDNR. You can probably still get it stocked for $25 application fee plus $1 per surface acre through them. Don't think they provide pike or crappie that way though.

FWIW: If it were my 30 acre pond, I wouldn't put pike, crappie or catfish in it unless it has a really good drain (which it doesn't sound like it does). I'd go with bluegill, redear, smallmouth (realizing they'll fade out), hybrid striped bass and largemouth.

Looks like a lot of potential right there! Just curious, if you went through the work and expense of draining it why not get a dozer in there to deepen some of the main channel? Although with a BOW that large I'd guess it'd be difficult to get it to dry out enough to not bury the dozer...

I can second rangersedge on the IDNR deal - I used them to stock my 7.5 acre pond and it was VERY affordable...less than 40 bucks.

The draw down was not total and the mud was about 24" deep.

So far, my impression of the fish hatchery industry has not been very good.

For instance, one guy extols the virtue of his "selective bluegill breeding", quotes an outrageous delivery price and guarantees his fish will make the trip alive if I come pick them up. In the next sentence, he says crappie are a disaster of an idea, will overpopulate, grow to be paper thin and will not tolerate travel (he has no crappie to sell). He will however, sell me crappie in the Fall.

This seems to be a trend. When discussing my willingness to purchase small fish (which likely would be easier to transport) firms admit they do not have any "right now". On Google Maps some don't appear to be hatcheries at all. Although they list many species on their websites, they appear more like brokers trying to line up Fall and Spring purchases and then go and buy their fish.

Reading this forum, it appears to be "buyer beware". There are comments such as "count your fish" and "identify the species" and which give the impression this is a seasonal industry filled with questionable operators.

I was under the impression you had to have a totally empty body of water to buy from IDNR. Will they simply sell fish to a private owner?

Some food for thought...While some states do have cheap stocking plans, they "usually" also have VERY poor quality genetics. We pondmeisters spend 10's of thousands of dollars on a pond. For what?? To put in a less than good quality fish?? To save what??? A couple hundred bucks???? Too many people think a fish is a fish is a fish...not even close!!!!! Most pond owners also never give a thought to, or have a clue just how much work, knowledge and plain ole luck goes into getting healthy fish from point A to point B...and that is good..it is my job and a farms job to ensure that happens.

I presume you are reclaiming this 30 acres to improve it for better fishing...that requires, better fish. Do you really want to stock a pond with poor quality fish that will be there till the next time a body of water is killed off, just to save a few bucks?

There is a HORRIBLE fish farm in Worden Illinois, that I avoid like the plague! There are some excellent fish farms elsewhere in the state that produce great fish and will not risk their reputation "overselling".

Crappie in 30 acres is, in my opinion a bad idea, but still very doable...Just be fully aware of what can and WILL happen with them and be willing to manage the water actively! No farms sell Crappie when air temps get much over 60 degrees because the handling kills nearly every fish from stress. To sell you 1000 fish, they will lose 50,000....if you will cover that huge loss, they will seine a pond for you.

I CAN and HAVE delivered many species of fish, at all times of year...I have also lost my butt, financially, when a pond owner refuses to understand fish are not a can of corn that can simply be pilled off a shelf and shipped anywhere, anytime. Fish are amazingly fragile... transportation is extremely risky (and our fuel/equipment/supplies AIN'T cheap). If it were easy to grow/transport fish (and profitable), everyone would do it.

Most, if not all of the fish farms are now producing the crops for this coming fall and next spring...Do you walk into a freshly planted corn field expecting to get an ear of corn???

Joe, this post is not so much intended for you as it is for all future readers that come here looking for help, ideas and rock solid advice based on real world experiences of hundreds, both private and professional.

RAINMAN: If the forum had a "like" button as Facebook does I would certainly "Like" your post.

To answer this, yes.

Many find the Pond Boss Forum once a pond has been started, only to learn of potential pitfalls.

Each fish species wanted in a body of water MUST have the proper environment in order to thrive.

For example, fathead minnows are stocked, normally in LMB ponds, as a forage fish for the future stocking of juvenile LMB and since a fish MUST have a food in the right size range to from, FH are useless as forage for larger fish after a year or two.

You want "large, crappie, catfish and pike"...great! Now, you have to set up the environment for each species PLUS how each will grow and interact as they grow.

For example, 40 pounds of fatheads stocked as forage in 30 acres is like using one bucket of water to put out a 10 acre grass fire....it might be done, but not without tremendous extra effort and risk of complete failure. Also, FH spawn in warmer shallower waters, structure in "deep" water is not likely to help them at all. If the pond is not aerated, these deeper waters become useless and even deadly in early to mid summer as the become anoxic (devoid of oxygen).

Your stocking plan is utilizing a cold water species as the ultimate apex predator...Is the lake spring fed? If not, they'll die when the deeper, cooler waters go anoxic, period.

Big bodies of water take big bucks to maintain and to get started right (FAR more money/effort to correct). "Common BG, LMB, CC" Stocking plans don't exist simply for the ease, they are what work, long term. You can reach any goal you desire, but ONLY with a lot of knowledge, a lot of experience/education, and "usually, a whole lot of money!

I like your ideas and species choices, but yes, it is fatally flawed as it is. It will take other species to support and grow the "target species" large, along with putting your structures in the PROPER places

You should look at the crappie archive for ideas. Look for the post near the end about a plan being used by SEP for big crappie and HSB using those plus T.shad , gshiners and FH. You might be able to use that plan plus a few cats and some esox. I don't think you will have good long term success with just what you mentioned. WE , SMB and YP might also be options.


http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=92447#Post92447


Back to the article on Crappie. With research from reservoirs on HSB feeding they found what we know that the HSB ate a lot of TShad. They also found that HSB eat a lot of young crappie. With that info they decided to try that application on some test ponds. They started with a clean pond and added TShad , GShiners and FH in the fall. The next spring they stocked BC fingerlings followed by HSB in the fall. Over the next 4 years they saw fast growth among the crappie with little crappie recruitment. No sign of the usual problems with crappie in ponds. They then created more ponds like the first and report that electrofishing results are very promising - slab crappie with no overpopulation and - yes the HSB are doing well. A pic of one of the HSB appears to be about 8 lbs. A pic of one of the crappie looks to be about 1.5 to 2 lbs.

I agree with Eric. In a shallow muddy bottom if you place catfish in it they will keep it from ever becoming clear. I would rather have hsb and crappie. We remove every catfish we catch and due to reproduction barely can up with reproduction.

Illinois Joe,
I do indeed see a few flaws in the approach, but I am pretty optimistic that you can pull this off and have a very unique fun place to fish.

Here are some of my thoughts for you to consider. Since I am under the impression your doing this on a fairly tight budget my recommendations kind of follow suit. If the budget or the timeframes change, so do the recommendations.

1. You should be able to get your crappie rolling by adding some brood fish this fall. Also add another dose or two of broodfish this winter and next spring as well. Get on it.

2. Dont stock all your channel catfish in one shot. You may actually get some reproduction out of them with the lack of bluegill and bass in the lake, but still I wouldnt plan on it. Do something like 1000 channels this fall, 1000 next fall, and 1000 the following fall. You should be able to get those 1000 fish for about $600. Shoot for about 3000 in your lake. The moment you start growing 2 lbers, eat them when you catch them. Dont catch and release the catfish past 2 lbs.

3. Get about 100 blue catfish at some point as well. They will be nice variety and will grow very large for you! I'm sure I will be getting some in at some point in the next couple years...

4. Im actually not afraid of common carp getting established in this lake with your game plan. Not that I would go and stock them, but I have a feeling they are already in there and still alive and ready to make babies. They will just be another source of forage for your pike and catfish. Also it seems to me your fairly shallow overall and gonna grow tons of vegetation anyways so I think youll be just fine.

5. Go ahead and stock some gizzard shad too. Keep in mind this is not the typical bass/bluegill scenario so I am not afraid of the gizzards here as well. They will be a great food source for your pike and catfish!!

6. Get the pike rolling as fingerling fish in 2013. Dont wait to stock them any longer than that. Your lake is gonna explode with forage very quickly (I have a hunch it is exploding right now as we speak). Since they will be the main predator and not just trying to implement them into existing population, I would stock 150 of them every fall for the next 5 years. After 5 years you can evaluate to see if you are getting any pike reproduction. My hunch for your situation is that you actually will get a very small amount of reproduced fish, but not enough to sustain the population. This may get a little pricey, but pool some guys together and get er done. Expect to pay about $10 each for those fish. Then after 5 years you may bump the stocking down to about 25 pike every fall to keep it rolling. This will give you AMAZING pike fishing in central illinois. If the water gets hot, the pike wont necessarily die, but they wont grow large unless they have cool water to get to in the summer time. Expect a bunch of 4-6 lb pike with an occasional double digit fish.

7. At some point down the road when you want to add some diversity and have some fun and push those pike and catfish into trophies plan on stocking 500 lbs of stocker rainbow trout in October (a couple years down the road). I have seen individual pike and muskie put on more than 5 lbs of growth just over the winter feasting on stocker trout. Plus the trout are alot of fun to fish for from October through June.

So there are some thoughts to consider. Good luck keeping the bass and bluegill out, if for some reason you do- very cool. If for some reason they show up at some point, you'll be just fine.

"I was under the impression you had to have a totally empty body of water to buy from IDNR. Will they simply sell fish to a private owner?"

It isn't supposed to have any predator fish in it.

That's the way Oklahoma's farm pond program works.