I have (had) a 3.5 acre pond that is now about 2 1/2 acres due to the severe drought... I renovated the pond last year, and all of my fish are doing great. Tiger bass have exceeded 1 pound and are moving toward 2 pound range after only being stocked since May of this year.

I have lost 6 feet vertically over the summer with only 1/2" of rain in the last 60 days. I have been in a near frenzy worrying about this and have decided to contract a well driller to come out and start feeding some water into my pond... Now I am wondering if this is a good idea. I dont think my pond will dry up but most of my manufactured habitat is out of the water, my (known) bream bed areas are all dry... i still have 3 to 10 foot depth in a lot of pond... Is adding well water a waste of time?? Any thoughts?

An acre foot of water is 325,851 gallons. That means to raise your 3.5 acre pond one foot, you'll need to add roughly a million gallons of water.
So I guess the first question to ask is if the groundwater in your area can support that and what it will cost to drill a well and buy the equipment necessary to add that amount of water.

ok, so I can understand your math. Not being sarcastic at all. Earlier this year... pond was about at this level. We had a couple of days of good rain... not downpours mind you... my pond came up 4 feet in two to three days, so by that math... God added 4 million gallons of water to my pond? Wow those are mind boggling numbers!!

Just fyi.. im not hoping to fill the pond back up... Im just hoping to stop the loss... I know God will fill it back up... just hoping to help keep it from going down anymore....Ideas??

I'd put some sort of ruler or yardstick in the pond to get an accurate measurement of water loss per day or week. That way you can calculate how much water you will need to add per day or week to keep the water level stable.

FYI, I'm adding roughly 30-35 thousand gallons per day and I'm only raising the water level about 1/4" per day.

esshup,

How are you adding the water? i am considering putting a sewage pump in my smaller pond that stays full and pumping water back uphill into my 2.15 acre pond to help stabilize the water level and even fill it when need be.

mb

I dug a well for the same reason and I will tell you it isnt cheap. Not just to dig the well but to run the pump. My pump costs about three hundred dollars a month to run. I have only had six weeks this year that I ran it because we have had good rains this year. My pump puts out about 72000 gallons a day.

That's about 50 gallons a minute. Do you know how big the casing is? What do you pump with?

I believe it is either a five or seven horse motor running on 220v. I believe the pipe coming out of the casing is two inch. Im not sure what the casing size is but it is very good cold water and never runs dry. I wish that I could have afforded more water but each size bigger got to be crazy expensive. I had looked at a twnety horse moter with a six inch pipe but it was just too expensive. The twenty horse motor would have been able to fill the pond. The setup I have now just keeps it at the level I have when I turn it on.

Be careful putting that cold water in the pond (at too high a rate) when the summer heat is high. Also need to watch the DO.

Mark: That's the well that also feeds the house. I have a ball valve outside the well house so I can direct the water whichever way I need without going thru a lot of hassle.

I really don't want to tap the aquifer with a well to keep my bigger pond full. At 2.15 acres that is a lot of water to pump. I think a submersible pump in a smaller spring fed pond that stays full makes a little more sense for me.

I wonder if any one has experience doing that on this board?

I don't mind the up front cost of a well, but $300 a month for elec. Is that correct, guys?

What's your electric rate per KWH?

esshup is right if your cost for energy is high then so will your electric bill also the bigger the motor the bigger the electric bill. My dad lives in the texas panhandle and his KWH rate is lower than mine is at my farm but my farm rate is still much lower than my rate down in the Dallas metroplex. So it just depends. I was told the electric rate is generally lower for coal fired plants.

About eleven cents per kwh. It's a co-op if that's anyway germane.

In any case, $300 per month sounds incorrect.

O.K. 1,000 watts in a kwh. One hp motor draws 746 watts per hour. Can you take it from here?




One hp - $1.97/day running 24 hr straight

I use a well to fill my 2 acre pond here in Nebraska and it only costs about $350.00 per year. I only have to run mine about three days straight every two months or so in the summer. In the winter, I don't fire it up at all. I would say that 300 per month is way high unless it runs 24/7.

NeBucks, if my math is correct from your description, you pay $350 for only 18 days usage. I would expect to pay an average $70/month for each horsepower of the pump if run 24/7. (It costs less to run a pump constantly than multiple stops and starts as each start-up draws a LOT of power)

I pay around 8 cents kwh. I have been runniing a 1/2 hp submersible well pump laid in a well screen in the bottom of a sand bottom creek and pumping it up about 70 ft. Gets me rigt at 10gpm. I have only seen about 35 to 40 dollar a month increase in usage. I have been doing this for a bout 2 months and was very surprised to see what just 10gpm will do to fill a pond. Its about a 1 acre pond. When I started it was a little under 1/2 acre surface area now im almost full 1 acre surface area. I figure with no rain it still should be filled by early March. Not bad for 40 bucks a month. thinking about putting a well in this summer so I dont have to mess with the creek when it floods after hard rains.

With the increase in the cost of electricity I am assuming my costs will be higher than 300 dollars a month this summer but I only run it about two to three months out of the year. If you look at it that way my cost per year is less than a thousand dollars.

1 HP is 750 watt or 0,75 kilowatt
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horsepower
You are runing pump (1/2HP) 375watt(0,375 KW) at 8cent KWH 24/365.

0,375 KW X 24hour makes 9KW a day
0,08 $ (8 cent) X 9KW (kilowatt) is 0,72 $ a day

262,8 $ a year
21,9 $ a month ?

I have a well to provide supplemental irrigation on my four ponds here in NE as I was concerned about sleepless nights worrying about dropping levels just like you. Considering the investment I made on the land, pond construction, fish, habitat, etc. adding a well was more than worth it considering it's insurance against drought and allows me peace of mind.

I have a 5 hp pump with a 6" casing at 270' and run 50 GPM. Running is 24/7 costs approx $300/mo. The only time I have ever run it for that length of time was when I filled the ponds. Now I only need to run for a few days every late Summer then again right before Winter to top them off for the long Winter.

Definitely recommend a well if you want to protect your fishery and precipitation isn't reliable.

andedammen are you saying that it comes out to 21 dollars a month? thats better than what i thought but after my heat strips on the heat pump had to kick in last month i noticed my elect co. charges 7 or 8 cents per kwh up to a certain amount then it goes up to like 10...so thats where i could be seeing the extra 35 or 40 and not 21 a month.

ok so i get around 22 dollars a month with those numbers...but not sure that is an exact number though...ive seen a lot of different 1/2 hp pumps for sale online and not all have the same amperage draw which should be an important factor in the equation...although id have to say its close enough...but after the first month of running i saw about 35 dollar increase

If you're in a dangerous drought, it's very beneficial if you can just add a few thousand gallons a day. It can easily make the difference in crashing or not. 2-3 GPM can easily save your fish if it has decent DO.

Yep. If you couldn't do the math, look at the last line. That's based on using your KWH costs.

I hava a buddy that has a hard time counting to 10 by using his fingers (and thumbs) but he's a mechanical genius, and I have another buddy who is a genius (by IQ rating) that can't figure out what end of a screwdriver to hold.

That is incorrect! That would be a 100% efficient motor, and NO SUCH animal exists!

Motors are rated for output HP, so if a motor nameplate says 1 HP, that is OUTPUT, not INPUT. You could easily draw 1500 watts to get an output of 746 watts. It depends on the motor efficiency, load, service factor...

The best way to estimate your operating cost is to take FLA (full load amps) and multiply it by operating voltage, then you get watts.

Amps x Volts = Watts

For example, I looked up a Baldor 1HP single phase motor. It operated at 115 volt, 13 amps. (starting current was 37 Amps, but only for a short time)

13 amps x 115 volts = 1,495 watts (divide by 1000 to get KW)

1.495 kwh x 24 hours = 35.88 kwh/day x $0.11 = $3.95/day x 30 days = 118.50 for 30 days.

This is just a way to estimate electric cost. Other factors play a role in actual cost.

I can easily believe a 5 or 7.5 hp motor would run 300 bucks a month, and the 1/2 hp motor at 35-40 per month.

The best way to know what electricity costs for an existing motor is to measure the amps and volts in actual operating conditions. Then you can find out how efficient you are and see if you can take steps to increase efficiency.

Three phase motors are quite a bit more efficient than single phase motors. There are a number of Variable Frequency and Inverter Drives that will operate three phase motors on single phase power.

Here it's a new year and I'm learning things already. Thanks JKB.

JKB, I tried looking on the F&W website for specs and couldn't find the info. Specifically, I was looking at a 2 hp, single phase submersible well pump, for a 4" casing. Model 4F85A20. I was hoping to find out the power consumption both on start up and on continous run. The pump would be at 60' depth, but the water level in the casing is 15' below the ground surface. I'd be pushing the water horizontally 200' thru a 4" I.D. plastic pipe once the water was pumped to the surface. Any ideas on the power consumption?

esshup,

I could not find any specs on the pump you mentioned. The only thing I found were some spare parts. It is an obsoleted model. Without the performance specs., it would be difficult to get close to the actual power consumption.

I thought about comparing it to a current pump, but that may not be viable due to the fact that newer motors/pumps are more energy efficient than older models.

In my opinion, every tool box should have something like this: Clamp Meter

You can measure Amps and Volts... They are a very handy. I have an Amprobe, and would be lost without it.

JKB:

Thanks. The pump isn't installed yet, I was just doing some thinking and planning for the upcoming year. I took that information right from the F&W website.
Specs

I was looking at the first 2 hp pump. I guess the best way to get the information would be to talk to the local well driller who installed the current well. Hopefully he'll know what pumps are currently available and the specs on them.

Every time I searched for that pump, I could not find anything. I also did a search on the F&W website and it said no matches were found.

The information you listed is only a fraction of what is needed. Maybe you could call them and talk to engineering and get the info. I find that talking to engineering is better than talking to customer service, go figure

I need to start searching for a well pump myself. The wells in our area are generally 180 feet deep.

esshup,

I looked up a few 2HP pumps and they are all about the same as far as amps go.

Average for a 230Volt motor is: FLA = 9.9, Service factor amps = 12.2 and start up amps = 49.4.

You could expect to operate at 2.28 KW. That is if you were drawing FLA all the time.

Estimate about 6 bucks per day at 0.11/kwh to be close.

Here are some 3 phase pumps/controllers that operate from 230V single phase.
Goulds Pumps

2HP FLA is only 6.5 amps -vs- 9.9 for single phase.

Thought you might be interested.

Heck yeah! Thanks.

Here is some info on the CentriPro Controller CentriPro

Pretty neat unit. Even has a pond filling mode.

Scot,

I'm really flattered that you would call me a genius but you really didn't have to tell them about the screwdriver thing.

Just kidding of course. I could only dream to have a high I.Q. other than that Internet test.

For what it's worth when I pumped 45 gpms 24/7 into the trout pond it cost me about $100.00 per month. I sold some of the trout for that much so it wasn't a problem financially.

I was really surprised that I could drop my .62 acre pond this fall an inch a day with a sump pump in a bucket rated at 70 gpm zero head. I needed to drop it a couple of feet for seining.

Hava? Okay, now I see.

Just a comment..IMHO, this is another example of why Pond Boss is such a great site. JKB is obviously very knowledgeable on present topic & shares his knowledge to help forum members fix their problems. See this all the time here & just wanted to say thanks...du

I'd have thought it was funny except that I'm so damned dysfunctional when it comes to math that even reading Scott's faint gray text at the bottom still doesn't help me!

Sniper, just remember that we have a lot of fun here besides sharing great info, and Scott is one of those guys who always has great info to share. He was definitely just having a little fun with his post and certainly was not being sarcastic or anything.

Todd,

I think we will just have to agree to disagree. Not only was he sarcastic, but his answer was wrong. Seems to me the focus should be on correct answers, and not being flippant with someone you don't know. (:>)

No harm in agreeing to disagree. Just remember that the little smiley icons are for a reason - in this case, Scott used a grin face to try to communicate that he was just teasing. Wrong answer or not, this is generally a very friendly and fun loving place. Sometimes the best planned thoughts and comments lose a bit in this sort of medium - unless you are a wordsmith for a living, it can sometimes be tough to fully communicate the point you wanted to make. Scott is a good guy and a solid guy. Just some food for thought!

Sniper, I apologise if you thought that the answer was flilppant or sarcastic, it wasn't meant to be. I truly thought I was giving you the correct answer, but JKB's post corrected me. I learned something that day and I hope you were able to use the information that he gave to answer your question as well.

Ya know, you would make a good lawyer.

Why, thank you! I just need to find an office with a shark's head hanging over the front door and I'll be all set . . .!!!

Dewey, Cheatham, and Howe

Hey, I know them!!!

Me, too. They turned me down for a summer clerkship during law school and, as a result, I've been on the straight and narrow ever since!

Straight and narrow? Must be tough.

Wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it.

Easier to get in a wide gate and slip by if you are straight and narrow

POND BOSS / January/February 2005
page 24 and 25
Will a
Well Fill Your
Well-Heeled Pond?
By Bob Lusk

Pond Boss subscriber Bob Durham
dropped us an email asking about
using a well to fi ll a pond. During my
travels around this great country, I am
privileged to be involved in a diverse range
of projects. One thing about wells always
strikes me during conversations with
landowners.
Here’s a typical exchange. Landowner
says, “If my watershed isn’t quite big
enough, I may just drill a well and fi ll the
pond.” Or, one might say, “If the pond
leaks, we can just punch a well and keep
it full.”
It ain’t quite that easy, folks.
Here’s where I always start. Remember
this number…it’s of huge value as you
think about a well. One acre, one inch
deep, is 27,000 gallons. That’s twenty
seven thousand gallons of water! Many
wells are drilled for domestic uses, water
for the house, maybe for livestock. But,
do some math. If you have a well which
produces 10 gallons a minute, 600 gallons
an hour, 14,400 per day…hmmm…and
you have a three acre pond?
People tend to think a “well” will do
them well. Not necessarily so. While I
never discourage someone to drill a well,
I do think it wise to do a little research and
think it out, forgive me, “well.” A well
thought out well will be better than an
expensive hole in the ground.
While volume is important, so is quality.
You don’t necessarily need to go way
down deep to get water of pond quality.
Fish and plants like hard, mineral laden
water. If a shallow aquifer has iron, lime,
other minerals and metals, it’s likely pretty
good for fi sh. Don’t drink it, though. Hard
water with lots of minerals doesn’t taste
like Ozarka.
There are several well stories to tell. I
have yet to see pure water come out of the
ground. Contrary to popular belief, most
groundwater is loaded with something it
absorbed along it trek toward the middle
of the Earth. As water seeps downward,
into aquifers, it digests rocks, metals,
gasses, and organic matter it might pass
through. When it sees the light of day,
everything changes. Don’t be surprised
if your well water leaves a nice coat of
orange on everything it touches. Iron. Or,
it might bless you with the ever-effusive
aroma of rotten eggs. Sulfur. Or, here’s my
favorite….
Got a call from a man north of Dallas a
few years ago. He had built a small pond in
his yard. But, it was muddy all the time. I
had him send a water sample. Analyzed it.
Yep, it was muddy, for no apparent reason.
Looked at the cations and anions. There
were more negatives than positives. I knew
that couldn’t be right. After all, I had been
taught nature wouldn’t allow anything
other than a balance in water. As we all
scratched our heads, educated minds eased
our pain.
We learned water always seeks a
balance…always. This man’s water was
balanced. With dirt. Tiny suspended pieces
of dirt added the missing positive charges
his water desperately sought. Why?
I drove down, took a look. Sure enough,
he had a well, pumping crystal clear water
into his pond. Then, he had a pump hooked
up to irrigate his lawn, pumping water from
the pond bottom. The mystery was nearer
to being solved. His well water came out of
the ground pretty and clear, but was so out
of balance coming out of the ground, it did
what it had to do to balance itself. It was
literally picking dirt off the pond bottom,
and physically holding it in suspension.
His water was heavy on carbonates and
bi-carbonates. It needed more charged
particles to seek a natural balance. The
water chose dirt. Once we fi gured it out, we
were able to buffer the stuff with gypsum.
He stopped irrigating with the water when
turf experts explained what this water
would do to his lawn. He left the pond as
a scenic landscaping spot, amended the
water, planted some pretty water plants,
and now enjoys it as it is.
Here’s another story. One conscientious
homeowner drilled a well, and decided to
aerate it by running water over a waterfall.
Great idea. He built a beautiful waterfall,
cascading down a pretty creek through
the yard, into the pond. Well water is
devoid of oxygen, and by breaking it up
over big rocks, letting it fall a few feet,
added oxygen. Oxygen is good. After a
month, the entire waterfall and its pool was
coated orange. Iron. Not such a big deal,
but his Labrador retrievers couldn’t wait to
immerse themselves in the pool below the
falls..every day. The black labs came out
looking like some sort of punk rocker with
January/February 2005 / POND BOSS 25
funky colored hair. Not exactly what the
landowner had pictured in his mind’s eye.
Toss in the fact his dogs would shake, rattle
and roll themselves in the least kind places.
Iron was beginning to be painted all over
the place. How did he solve the dilemma?
He re-routed the well water straight into
the pond, and set up a pump in the pond
to pick up water for the waterfall. Within
a week, all the iron was gone, and he was
still aerating pond water. Problem solved.
Before you drill a well, do some
homework. Contact reputable local drilling
companies. Odds are, they have drilled a
well somewhere nearby. They will have
logs of the well, and can tell you quite
a bit about the water, different aquifers,
and quantities of water you might expect.
Use the well driller as a consultant, and be
confi dent when asking questions. You need
answers.
I had a well drilled just more than a
year ago. The driller I chose has been a
client for years. I stocked his pond years
ago. He is also the main well guy I refer
people. He is knowledgeable, and willing
to answer all questions. I told him I needed
at least fi fty gallons per minute to serve
my fi sh vat shed, and to fi ll any one of six
ponds on my home site. While he couldn’t
honestly guarantee what I might get, he
took away much of the guesswork by
drilling a hole big enough, and fi nishing
the well appropriately, with the correct size
pump. As long as there was water in the
aquifer, the well would do its job. So far,
so good. The well produces 75-80 gallons
a minute. It has iron, a little sulfur, but is
buffered very well, with plenty of lime in
it. It serves the purpose we need.
Here’s what you need to do. Defi ne the
purpose of your potential well. Calculate
volume of water you will need. Then,
defi ne the quality of water. Do you intend
to drink it? Often, there sits more than one
aquifer underneath your land. Pick the one
you want based on defi ned need. Next,
talk to the driller about costs and your
expectations.
My well went to 360 feet of depth, pump
set at 180. Total cost? Slightly less than
$10,000.
Don’t be cavalier about your thinking.
After all, you may not want to toss ten
grand into a hole which might produce just
enough water to bathe.
As you can see, it’s a pretty big operation to drill a water well. Do some homework
before drilling. Photo credit: Schroeder Rotary Drilling.

I misjudged you. You are a scholar and a gentleman.

This blog has been most informative and entertaining. I have a pond that's about 3.5 acres so can relate to you'alls concerns about adding water to avoid losing pond balanced against financial considerations. Georgia is midst of extremely dry weather (roughly 12-13" below annual average) so I worry about losing my pond and fish. Keep up the information exchanges!!

Can anyone recommend a good pond guy to fix a dam and deepen a pond in the Noble, OK area?

Well, a lot of water has flowed under my dam since last post. I found I had a weak breaker on my well pump along with sick electrical part. Replaced breaker and got well installer to fix pump electrical and now can use my 2" pipe to fill pond. I've added about 1 foot water so now waiting to see if Mother Nature will help fill it up another 12-15" to full pool. At least fish aren't in jeopardy! I just had to pay repair bills and added costs of electricity to get me back in my comfort zone. Hope you all are making progress with your various issues.

I had the same concern with the rough drought we have had here in East Texas the past couple of years. Luckily I had an existing well and all I had to do was replace the pump. 3hp 3 phase pump is providing me with 25+ gpm. I ran it 3 weeks in November and all of December 2011 and the month of December (don't recall Novembers increase) it added about 120 dollars to our electricity bill. The well shed is on its own meter and that is the only thing besides one electrical outlet that is on the meter. I had my well water tested prior to filling my pond and it was PH 6.75 Alkalinity 20ppm. It was well worth the investment for my situation, I just wish at the time I would have went with a 10hp pump @ 80gpm.

Why so much HP for so little flow? I'm using either a 3/4 or 1 hp 220a motor and I'm getting 25 gpm from my well.

I haven't actually measured the flow myself just going by the info I was quoted by the installer. I know the output out of my 2 inch pipe into my pond is pretty strong.