I recently purchased a house with a small pond on the property. The pond is approximately 20'x35'. It has mud bottom. I've been told that I have to keep the water level at no more than 18" due to zoning and insurance. There are about 50 goldfish and koi in the pond, and several bullfrogs. The pond is over-run with lilly pads, so I have to wade into the pond 3 or 4 times each summer to thin them out. I sink to me knees easily in the mud on the bottom of the pond. I am considering installing a liner for easier maintenance. Any ideas how I can do this without losing the fish and frogs? I have been trying to figure ot how to do it in phases, but cannot come up with a logical way to dam sections of it off since it has such a deep muddy bottom. ANy help or suggestions will be helpful.

Welcome Marv. The "official" welcoming committee and the people that can answer you question will be along soon, but in the mean time, I'll ask a question: have you thought about building another pond, moving your fish, frogs etc as you drain your existing pond and then filling the old one back up with the dirt from pond #2.
If you've got the room, it would probably be cheaper than trying to fix pond #1. Just a suggestion.....

Good to have you marv54; I'm not the resident expert here however i have noted others say you can isolate the breeding pairs and or others for later during this process. By keeping the best of the stock you can do more than one thing at a time. You can cull your numbers at that time assuming there are too many. You can also bring in new blood with your current breeders. IMOP this is a good oportunity to make any changes that you might find interesting. You want to sein the pond and set up holding tanks with adaquate air and feed until you get the pond in ship shape. Look in the "raising forage" section to find additional info on what type/size holding tanks you will need for your application. This would not be something to take lightly, study up and ask as many questions as you can think of before you start the project. You will find many willing to offer assistance on this forum. Hope this helped and good luck.

As someone who is knee deep in planning a lined pond I can tell you that in general you do not want to lay down a liner over "muck" A better idea (and of course more expensive) is to remove the muck to good earth, remove all pointy things, and follow the manf. directions for the liner.

You will need a place to dump the muck for it to dry (usually a long time) and judging by the 18" rule I would imagine you are close enough to neighbors who may not like that. Of course you could dig a borrow hole, set aside the dirt,fill with h20,transfer fish,etc.., etc.. and then swap the muck into the borrow hole, and dirt back into the pond to get to your 18" rule.

Thanks for the suggestions so far. However, digging a second pond as a temporary or permanent relocation for the fish and frogs is not an option due to location and space constraints.

I talked with the person who originally dug the pond. He suggested I sotre the fish someplace (similar to the suggestions I have received on here.) he said there is no real way to save the frogs. He told me to pump the pond dry, then dig a hole about 3 feet deep in the center of the empty pond for a sump pump. Next, he suggested I clean any leaves, etc from the bottom, then put in a layer of pea gravel and then a layer of sand before installing the liner. Sound right?

It might be wishful thinking on my part, but I was hoping to be able to dam off a section of the pond (maybe 1/4, 1/3, or even 1/2), and drain it and line it in sections. Any thoughts on that? What would I use to section it off?

Thanks again for any suggestions.

Layers of sand and pea gravel, if deep enough, could possibly serve the same purpose as a liner.

I still need to drain the pond to put in the layers of gravel and sand. It's way too soft and the mud is too deep to try to just dump them on top of the muck on the bottom.

Just a question I have been out of the loop on this one.
Why are you putting a layer of sand and gravel down under the liner?

I'm putting the gravel and sand under the liner for a smoother base under the liner, and because currently there is 18 inches of muck with jagged rocks under that.

Easier maitnence is your goal.
Whats the rest of your set up?
Are you thinking bottom drain, and filter, skimer uv-light etc.?
Are you dropping water lillys or are you gonne put soil back in on top of liner and have plants?

Do you feed, or is it self sustained as off now?
Have you got thr 18" confirmed or have you youst heard?
Your current depth is muck to knee (thats 19" on my knee)+ 18" total 37" ?

There is a few diferente aproaches including sectioning that I can think off.

But if there is no sirculation, mecanical and/or biological filteration, and you take away the natural then???????

I dont understand how the fish and frog are gone survive in the new habitat?

By the way fish will die in pool storage if you base it on a ordinary poolfilter.

2 links
http://www.koikichi.com/eric.php wery low maitnance and easy to build DIY
http://www.koikichi.com/alans-book/page-2.php A good reviev of all aspects on koi pond/filter
Allmost amasing that you find it on Waddys page he is not thinking highly of others in general, sounds like the only way to go, is his way, wich ovioussly is BS.
But his way is absolutly a way to go if you are a bit handy and can do it your selfe

We dug one a little deeper, cleaned it up (no sharp objects/protrusions), then layed down the liner in 3 sections, sealing with a 6" overlap.

Had previouslt trenched around edge, so liner is tucked in and held down.

Also, we installed gas vents, to prevent bloat up/float up!
Much bigger pond (1 acre) so may not be an issue in a smaller one.