Hi, I'm cleaning my Michigan pond slowly but surely.

It's surrounded on two sides by large trees, some hanging over the water. the largest tree is a 6' diameter willow. It's huge and old and always dropping debris into the water.

Over the years there's been quite the muck layer accumulation.

I've started aeration a couple of years ago and adding bacteria to break up the smaller particles, but there's plenty of big stuff (sticks, leaves, etc.) to remove.

I've done the pond raking and it seems every time I rake near the aerator the next time I go out there, I have another new layer to pull out. I'm assuming the bacteria is breaking up the small stuff leaving the larger sticks that are now easier to remove.

I've used spades, pitch forks, manure forks, scoop shovels, lake rakes, and have scooped up yards of this stuff for the garden (nothing better once that smelly muck has dried out to form the blackest soil!) but it's still time consuming.

Other than dredging the pond, has anyone had a novel way of harvesting large amounts of muck quickly? I guess I'm looking to stay manual, but trying to find the perfect "scoop" to get as much per shovel as possible.

You are a better man than I am, I pumped my pond dry and used an excavator to harvest my muck, my back wouldn't have taken the other options, heh heh.

I think you are doing everything that can be done without using equipment.

I am cleaning out the muck on my 0.6 acre pond. The muck has been accumulating for over 60 years and is 2-3 feet deep. I decided to do the work myself while the pond remains filled so I do not disturb the large bass. While it is time consuming, it is really pretty easy with the right equipment. I am pumping all the muck into a series of 80 mesh 8 oz non woven dewatering bags. The muck will consolidate about 8:1 when dried and it makes very good and friable topsoil. That means that a 24" thick layer of muck will dewater to about 3" layer of dried soil. My first 10' x 15' bag is full and drying now. I just ordered a 15' x 25' bag that I am going to place on my weed covered garden. When dry this Spring, I will just cut off the top of the bag and plant vegetables....no weeds either. I fabricated a suction strainer from a small plastic waste basket and I am pumping the muck out underwater using a gas engine driven diaphragm pump adjacent to the shore. I tried several different centrifugal pumps but the small shells, stones, and twigs kept binding up the impeller. Once I switched to the correct pump, it runs until I get tired. I did invest in a wet suit, divers boots, and divers gloves. The 55 oF water felt warm in that outfit so I will continue pumping this fall. Rather than renting the equipment, I purchased used and can work on the pond whenever I have the desire and time. It sucks up leaves, small stones, algae, shells, twigs...anything that can fit through the 1" square openings of the strainer. The pump can actually handle up to 1 3/4" solids. Anything that doesn't fit, I pull off by hand while the pump is running. So far, I have pulled out small rubber balls, a softball, tin cans, bottles, and an old snorkle. I had researched this for some time and it works!..........Doug

Doug, Welcome to the forum!

Your method is very interesting. Can/will you post some pictures of everything?

Hi, Doug.

Very interesting post. I'm very interested in pictures. Please keep us informed on this process.

Doug,

I always thought pump dredging was the most efficient way to clean out a pond without disturbing the fish too much. You can use a pickup boom rather than wading into the pond.

Ran across these:

http://www.piranhapumps.com/dredge_selection_chart.159.html

What about using a venturi tube setup, this allows the water to pump through and the venturi picks up the sediment. Its really easy to fab one up.

I'm sorry, but I can't picture what you're talking about. Can you elaborate for me a little bit?

http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0WTefcVMu1I6W...6sigb=138e8o3rt

Something like above only bigger. We use one here at work to clear sightports on high temp furnaces, it blows nitrogen through the tube and the 3rd line pulls out debris from the sight port.

DougOhio
This deal sounds great, If you can send pictures.

Otto

Hi,

I am new to this forum. Very interesting and look forward to more.

Regarding the "muck" harvest. We offer a service that may fit your needs. We use a small but very efficeint hydraulic dredge to clean sediment out of ponds and other bodies of water. As an example we recently renovated a 50 year old 1.5 acre pond with orignal depths of 16'. Silt accumulation was as much as 6'+ in some areas. Water quality had gotten to the point it could not be controled and the fish population was suffering.

We removed nearly 10,000 CY of material in-situ. This pond was fully stocked with fish which were left in the pond with zero losses in the process. Very little turbidy in the process as well. In this case we pumped some of the material into very large dewatering bags and some into a retention area. Once the material dried out the client spread it and has since seeded it expanding his little 5 hole golf course on the propery.

We also did a small spring fed trout pond. It was about 30' wide by 120' long. It was only about 2' deep and we were able to take it down to 4' very easily. the pond was full of very large rainbow and brook trout. All the fish stayed in the pond with again no loss of fish.

This process has minimal if any disturbance to the property and is normally a fair amount less than mechanical dredging with backhoes or draglines.

(Bob Lusk edited out the phone number until we get to know Kpetersen a little bit better.) We offer this service throughout any where east of the Rockies.

Kent

Bob:

I think your editing it at this time makes total sense.

I hope this guy is great and that he will make interesting contributions to the web site.

When I want to deal with someone I don't know on this, or any other site, the first thing I look at is the profile which each of us fills out when we first register. I am always a little suspicious when they don't put anything in that profile. No occupation, no hobbies, and especially not even what part of the country they are in. Narrowing it down to the state at the very least.

If I had my say relative to this site a person would never get a rating above fingerling until they at least revealed something about what they are about.

Bing

Ditto Bing.

Sorry about the lack of info, have not done much with forums before and I am learning more about how they work. I missed some of the details in the sign up. Having just found this site I am excited about being a part of it. I have a pond of my own and I am fortunate enough to live on a 120 acre lake with 25' visability. Many lakes in our area are becoming infested with Eurasion Milfoil and other invasives - very concerned about protecting our resources.

I certianly appreciate any suggestions as I try to take part in conversations in this forum. I now understand business is to be promoted on the ads on the web as well as print - spoke to Bob about that and look forward to supporting Pond Boss.

Just got my new fins so I am learning how to swim.

Kent

Welcome aboard Kent.

It's a great place to be (when you can't be at your pond, that is!)

I think Kent is on the way to being a Lunker.

Lake dredging and muck removal services sounds like a great seminar topic / magazine story.

Bing

Now, how about some of you others adding some content to your profile.

What type of info should be put on the profile: Water World Addict, trying to fix a subdivsion lake? Have been taken over by gizzard shad, want bacteria to improve the lousy 21" clarity???

Welcome aboard Kent. Order the mag and join in the fun. It is ok to do business via pm (private messages) also. Just not on the open forum.

Welcome aboard

put some pictures on the site so we can see what is going on.

When the phone rings here it is about water loss or cleaning out a pond.

Otto

Welcome Kent, you'll fit in just fine.

2CatMom:

I don't think you got an answer to your question, but I think the subjects you suggested are more like topics you want to discuss than profile items. The profile asks for: Occupation, Hobbies, and Location. I believe these are meant to tell forum members a little about you without getting into specifics. There is also room for your email address and web site address if you care to share them. To me these help us understand one another, and perhaps allow us to make responses that are more specific to your situation (an example would be that knowing where you are located helps in stocking, and other pond considerations).

Bing

I've always kinda wondered why people don't provide that type of info. When a person wants to ask questions, their location really does matter. To a certain extent, their profession also might dictate the type of response; especially if they are in a pond related business.

Or some kind of cannibal headhunter.

Kent, welcome to Pond Boss. We're glad you found us. Since you have already spoken to Bob it sounds like you are off to a great start.

Profiles:
Ah the subject of profiles. I can honestly say that it bugs me when people don't fill out their profiles. When a new forum member comes on board I frequently look at their profile just to get an idea as to what area of the country they are in, what they do for a living, are they a cat person or a dog person, what they had for breakfast.

When the profile is empty I get suspicious... maybe they don't have a pond, maybe they've never even been to a pond. Perhaps they are a predator, a Pondifile - - lurking and trying to trap an unsuspecting pond meister in to an unsavory pond rendezvous. Sure they may wisper sweet things about water and fish but in reality they might be crazy eyed guy sitting in a run down hotel room in the middle of New York (the crazy city, not the beautiful countryside) surrounded by concrete, tapping away on a dingy laptop, looking at photos of ponds and lusting after them.

Don't be a Pondifile. Fill in your profile. Do it now.


Oh and sorry I didn't mean to "muck" up this thread. Go ahead discuss muck to your heart's content.

Quote from JHAP: they might be crazy eyed guy sitting in a run down hotel room in the middle of New York surrounded by concrete, tapping away on a dingy laptop, looking at photos of ponds and lusting after them.


JHAP: I thought you said you were going to be in Pennsylvania, not New York.

OH SNAP!

Please specify New York, as New York City.

Good point Adirondack. I'm sure residents of New York state get tired of hearing about people complaining about or making fun of New York city. Post Edited.

Oh and by the way I have no idea what OH SNAP means I just heard it on the My Name is Earl tv show and liked the way it sounded. I'm sort of impressionable that way.

OK I'm done mucking around with this thread. Back to muck harvesting...

Just as all of California is not Southern California, and all of Ohio is not Cleveland.

I like to think of Ohio as more of Aakron.
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..kidding, just kidding!

Hey,I filled out my profle didnt I?I said I was from Texas didnt I?I said I was a mechanic,didnt I?Was I supposed to admit Im a coplete idiot(If you cant figure that out you belong in the cell next to mine)?Was I supposed to fess up I got fired from my own business from someone out of state I'd never met before?(Sunil,notice how I didnt let come out that you did that?) :oShesh,how much info do you guts want,anyway?

O.K.,Texas IS kinda big...I live somewhere around the middle

Just a little useless trivia; You could live in 9 other states, and be closer to New York City than the majority of the area of New York State. (ok I'll shut-up now).

TOM G, I know you feel better now, after we've met, when I call down to your office and fire you.

Do you mean geographically or wrt lifestyle, or both?

I guess I'll have to stick with geographically, If I talk about politics I'll get censored. (ha ha ) ( talk about digging up muck)

I figured that went without saying

On the topic of muck removal I paddle around my pond and jab the kayak paddle into the bottom to release the gas bubbles in the muck. I'm not sure how much this helps, but it sure releases alot of gas. (pond gas, not mine! )

I also occasionally do the same thing with a paddle. I don't know if it helps any, but it is interesting, and amazing to see that much "air" trapped in the leaves and debris.

I had a nice long discussion about bacteria and enzyme treatment with Bill Cody as this year's Pond Boss Conference. One thing, if I understood Bill correctly, that he advised is when I put bacteria in areas with high "muck" it might be helpful to stir up the muck beforehand, such as running a trolling motor or small outboard through it to stir it up. Sure makes sense to me that some of it is in suspension when I dump the treatment in the water.

Bing

What are you talking about Sunil?????

Ohio= Cincinatti, WKRP in

Favorite episode was Thanksgiving when Les thought the turkey could fly.........

"Oh, the humanity!"

Sorry for the delay. I thought I would receive an automatic notification from the site that someone read my post and wanted more information. I decided to check and saw a few others that had wanted some pictures. I am not sure how to add pictures but here are some comments (I will add pictures later):


The pump is a 50 gpm diaphragm positive displacement pump. The bag is 15' x 25'. The suction is a garbage pail over a suction strainer. I tired 3 different versions. One was no restriction...just the strainer. However when the front part of the strainer was embedded in muck, the back portion was in already cleaned water so the suction took the path of least resistance...the clean water and short circuited. The garbage pail was my first attempt to minimize the short circuiting. The next version had too large a garbage can and the top would let in clearer water than the thick muck at the bottom. The version shown works just right and lets just a little water in along with the muck to keep things flow able. The solids content of the muck is about 20 - 30% so it is very thick, but pumpable. A centrifugal pump could not work in this environment since it can only handle 1-3% solids. The middle bag photos is about where the bag is currently at regarding thickness due to sludge. The knife gate valve is a 3" size so that I can disconnect hoses and leave the muck in the dewatering bag. The bag filters out all solids down to the 50 micron size and is normally used for construction pumping projects to handle site drainage. The bags are not reusable. The large bag cost $200 but it is worth every penny. Enjoy.........Doug

Thanks for checking back in. This is still of intrest to me. This works on the same idea as a dredge but a lot smaller.
How is the work comming?

Doug, heres how to post the pics. Most of us use photobucket, which is free, and resize to 600X480.

http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=92443#Post92443

Doug,are you familiar with Sediment Removal Solutuions in Ohio, we are going to have them do a few small ponds for us this summer. They may have some info on their site that can help you http://www.mucksuckers.com

That is a very interesting link and service, Ted. Considering how often I see members asking about how to handle excessive muck, we should archive something like that for reference.
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Do you have any experience with that process?

As soon as I can get a plane ticket I well look at this mucksucker stuff.

Hi Doug and all. My first posting and I'm a bit overwhelmed by all the info my brain has received, is receiving, is processing about ponds, etc.

I have a question, Doug, and I hope it hasn't been covered, as I said, brain reeling.

With your unit, self built I assume, how much area can you cover in an hour/half day/full day?

Has anyone used aeration to remove muck? How effective has it been for you?

How long did it take for the water to leach out of the muck/the woven bag?

I don't suppose that holes drilled in a cribbed containment vessel would work to drain the water, or would it?

I'm sure many more questions will arise. I actually called mucksuckers and they seem pretty pricey.

Thanks,

jal