Pond Boss
Posted By: esshup O.K. Lets see a show of hands. Who's going... - 08/25/17 01:53 AM
to the Pond Boss Conference??
Wife & I are planning to attend. Son might join us.
I'm 90% pregnant...
I'll be there.
Me
Plans are to attend but I have not made reservations, I need to get that done.
Been there. Done that. Bought the T-shirt.
Me and Jodi are signed up!
Planning on it.
Will be attending
Let's get y'all signed up then! You can register on our website or call me at the office 800-687-6075
Cant do it I wish I could but that's right at the start of Muzzle Loader season here.... Maybe one day...

RC
75/25 I am attending...
I have a hunting trip planned.
Cannot justify the cost.
Connie Clean and I will be there.
It's not practical for me to attend, but best wishes for a successful event.
Would love to but budget won't allow
I'm keeping my fingers crossed the next one will be in the winter, so I can take along the Mrs. and enjoy a little break from winter down south AND go roaring into spring full of new pond knowledge..
I am a definite maybe.
Our deer season starts Oct 1, it's in the busy time of year for us to be stocking fish too.

I'm still going to be there.
Carolynn and I will be there.

This one is early enough in the year we could make it.
All signed up.
Will be there, then run to ft worth for a family event
The area (Conroe) where the Pond Boss Conference is scheduled is sure getting hit with a ton of rain.

Radar
http://www.wfaa.com/weather/central-texas-radar.

Lake Conroe Web Cam
https://worldcam.eu/webcams/north-america/texas-usa/3621
This one just might be the proverbial storm of the century. And, that's an under statement.
Dave you could say that!

I've lived in Pearland/ Houston area for 63 years and never seen anything like that. One year we had 40" rain in a small area but nothing to this magnitude. This will take years to recover from. Prayers go out to everyone involved.

Side note : look how it brings all walks of life together, this is a good thing.
I read some Houston city planner called this a "800 year" event
We've been talking with people at La Torretta Resort. Lake Conroe rose almost five feet. The resort was shut down, due to flooding of nearby roads. But, we've been assured the hotel and convention center haven't flooded. The lake has been lowered three feet and now sits about two feet above pool level. So, our plans are to hold the conference. As close as Houston is to the Gulf of Mexico, the major flooding will end within a few days of the rain stopping. With as much rain as they're having, there's just no place for the water to quickly go. However, once the rain stops, the metropolitan Houston will have some major needs.
Regarding Pond Boss VII Conference and Expo, we plan to continue pushing forward.
Got er done, registered and rooms reserved. looking forward to it all.
I just read the editorial in the PB magazine about the low conference attendance. I am sorry for the disappointment, but the high fees and cost of stay is a budget breaker for me, and probably quite a few others. If more attendance is what is required, please make it more low key, and in a much less expensive place, if that is possible. Sorry for the rant, but it seems the conference was set up just for the more affluent, and not for us retired guys who have all kinds of pond time, but fixed incomes. I guess we couldn't afford much of the vendors offerings either.
AGREE with Mr. Fitzgerald!

Like it or not, I am convinced this current high cost conference model rules out MOST all the Soil and Fish Farmers from attending (most soil farms have ponds and the owners want/need info!). These people work very hard and struggle to make ends meet, so this venue is likely out of the question. Most of the local hatcheries are one bad week away from closing the doors!

I'm a working stiff and find the total cost, plus travel to be unrealistic. The total cost is >/= most middle/upper income class annual vacation spend!

IMHO, if you keep a lower cost convention center venue as being the center of the conference for the week, and suggest people to stay in the general area at whatever level hotel/motel/YMCA they can afford, your attendance will likely blossom.

Maybe try it and see if it works? Maybe it has been? Don't know.
I would add my hearty agreement as well. Jeff Calvin and I have further costs as the travel distance is further. I would propose alternating between a TX location and a Midwest location. The cost for the NY and other east coast folks must really be high just to get there and back.

With the little time left for sleeping after all the learning and socializing that we hear about at these conferences, any bed will do for a few hours and then back to the conference the next day. Clearly the drawing point is not the venue but the quality of the education at these events (and hopefully the focus stays that way)

I also feel much of the camaraderie and sharing that goes on in this site is most strongly felt by those who happen to live in Texas. The rest of us kind of are kind of like the kids looking wistfully through the glass from outside.

It might be wise to see if there can be 'local chapters' of pondmeisters who can enjoy the sharing, visiting each other's ponds and properties, and general companionship that the deep south members enjoy.
As someone who attended I can see both sides. My total cost was north of $800. Don’t get me wrong I enjoyed every minute spent there. Lots of knowledge was shared along with great vendors and experiences. $800 for one person is something I had to budget for and that might not be available every time.
I struggled with deciding if we were going this year as well. I'm not sure what can be done to increase attendance. I live in Texas, and went to previous conference in Rockwall with the wife. We both really enjoyed it. We figured it was going to cost about 1200.00 to do it this year. Between our regular vacations, pond projects, and a planned deer hunting trip(returned day before PB conference), we decide not to go this year.

As far as help reducing cost, I would be as happy in a local Civic center, and maybe not having the big catered dinner. BUT if I was flying in and didn't know the area, I might feel differently.
A little history. Others chime in with corrections thoughts etc.

We have had a series of local conferences
DFW airport
Atlanta
Nebraska
Ill.
W Va.

Bob has gone all over to thousands of local meetings From NY to Calif and all points in between at Co-ops , Farms , Hatcheries , Homes, etc.

We have had major conferences about every couple of years.
Arlington TX I & II - 2007, 2008
Big Cedar MO III , IV & V - 2009, 2011 & 2012
Lake Ray Hubbard VI - 2015
La Torretta TX VII - 2017

We always wrestle with several factors - location , time of year , cost and attendance. Many of us have talked at length about options and never have found the perfect or even the best answers. If you have ever tried to book a conference you know it is very difficult. There are room and food requirements that Bob is on the hook for no matter what else happens. Speaker schedules are almost impossible to make work. One thing for sure - they have never been planned or designed to attract the well off. Most have lost money and are not designed to make a profit.

We might be better served with more local meetings with not as many speakers more like the early events. They are only inexpensive for the locals and anyone who travels to them will have costs like the major conferences (food , hotel ,car/travel, etc.).

The one thing I am sure of is ideas are welcome and most appreciated.
I've got to admit, when I look at what I've invested in construction, docks, fish, landscaping, and structure, $800 seems reasonable. I've just always had the conference in my mind as a conference for professionals, land managers, pond managers, guys with hatcheries, etc..
I've just got a one acre pond,that's usually smaller than that due to the ongoing drought, and a small leak. I "assumed" that most of what was being presented wasn't going to apply to me. It's for the guys I call when I need help. I just recently decided not to add aeration to my pond due to cost issues, and a limited budget.
Maybe something on a smaller scale would make more sense for me. Just my $.02..
Jeff
I’m still at work so cannot get too in-depth right now, but I’m glad this came up. Will try and collect my thoughts for later. Definitely feel what others are saying, and I’m glad to see I am not alone in thinking things might be a bit out of kilter.
I had to back out at the last minute due to a lung infection. My thoughts: I have ; for me; always gotten my money’s worth by having an opportunity to talk to pro’s about things I don’t really understand. And, I really enjoy getting together with other pond owners.
I think we have been to 5 PB Conferences now and have enjoyed them all. I'm also a "working stiff" and they happen every couple of years so we just plan for it. Already planning to attend the next one if/when it occurs. Every year thus far the kids have also attended and the quaility of the conference, speakers, and fellowship is great. The kids learn just as much as my wife and I do, I believe they have a discounted rate for attending. We figure they learn more at the conference than they ever would at school. I would keep them just the way they are.

I'm a member of another club type organization with about 3,000 members. We just started a local chapter under the national club and I think there would be some merit to that for PB as well. The biggest issue with the local club is getting folks to host and participate. I'm the local chapter president and regularly get chewed out for not having more events. We usually have 2-3 each year and I host one at my place each year, when I ask someone else to host they normally reply the don't have the time, space, equipment, etc. The other big issue is people not attending after they say they are, lots of extra food left over at the hosts expense. I feel that would most likely be an issue with a smaller PB group.

An advantage of the bigger event is the number of vendors and quality speakers. Hard to get a high end line up like at the PB Conferences if there are only 30 people in attendance.

I think those who haven't attended would see the quality and value if they would check one of the PB Conferences out. Thanks.

Bryan
Ok, I'm the new guy here, but I wanted to throw my two cents in the hat.

I didn't know about Pond Boss or the PB VII convention/expo until a day or two before the event. I happen to live within 20 miles of La Torretta, so I was able to register on-site and commute to/from rather than staying at the hotel, so in full disclosure, that saved me a lot of coin attending.

At first, I thought the registration fee was a little steep, but after attending the event, I walked away feeling it was worth every penny. The value delivery was there in spades and it was put together and run very well. Since it was my first one, I had no concept of whether attendance was "light" or not. I just felt like my registration money was well spent.

I don't know the reasoning behind only having them every couple years or on an irregular schedule, but I think that might actually help attendance more than hinder it. I will say this... I am looking forward to the next one... not just to learn more, but to reconnect with new friends and acquaintances I've met not only here, but at the PB VII event.

Travel costs to/from obviously will vary by person, but the content/agenda, food, venue, etc were all done extremely well. There may be less expensive venue options, but there is a lot to be said for having the event at a location where you can attend the conference, eat, drink, fellowship, and fish without leaving the property. If/when I am traveling to another state to attend PB VIII, I would hope to have a similar convenience in event location.

I know it doesn't take the sting away for those unhappy with the cost - and I completely understand - but I do want to tip my hat to Bob and the Pond Boss team for putting together an exceptional convention at a beautiful location... and pulling it off without a hitch. In my opinion, the value justified the expense...

I don't know how far out in advance these are planned, but maybe one option would be to announce the event far enough out that people can plan/save as needed. Just a thought...

/c
I can sure understand the cost being an objection as has been discussed. Even those that can afford it but are a tightwad like me cough a little at the cost.

That being said, I also can appreciate the difficulty in getting a convention center to accommodate a large group of people. Once you get past a certain size crowd and the need for meeting rooms, the pickings get slimmer and the cost goes way up. Easy to accommodate groups of 20 or 50. Start talking in the hundreds of people and the price of a chocolate chip cookie for break time goes to ten bucks. And you can't bring your own.

I'm sure if someone has suggestions of a strategic located facility that will accommodate the crowd the size of the convention with reasonable costs and reasonable local accommodations Bob would be all ears.

Just a bug in everybody's ears. Wife and I have been talking about hosting a PBF get together (similar to Highflyers event) for the last couple years. It definitely will be low key and the cost will be zilch. Tentative date Sept 22, 2018. But I will start a separate thread about it. Kansas is about as central as you can get.
I was there for most of it but I did miss some of the conference including the last evening meal. I did notice a smaller attendance over the prior PBC. It's a shame that so many were not able to attend. I am not sure how Pond Boss could offer up so many speakers in one place with out it costing some excess money to do so. It could be done but there might be fewer speakers with less this and less that but attendance could be down due to all that reduction also. I think the location of this one may have come into play. The Dallas area is more centrally located than Conroe is, I think. How was the attendance when held at Big Cedar?
Originally Posted By: snrub


Just a bug in everybody's ears. Wife and I have been talking about hosting a PBF get together (similar to Highflyers event) for the last couple years. It definitely will be low key and the cost will be zilch. Tentative date Sept 22, 2018. But I will start a separate thread about it. Kansas is about as central as you can get.


Hope that happens and works well. Start early and id people in your draw area and let them know. Ask them what they are interested in hearing about. Pick a time that people are free to come. Not harvest time or opening day of hunting season. Call Bob and tell him what is up and get him on the schedule . He can provide names - both PB and non-PB. There are other marketing aspects that the PB office can help with if you choose to go that route.

Highflier's event is PB friends and I don't think any marketing to outsiders is involved. No speakers either. The prior regional meetings are a bit different in that they were marketed to non-PB folks and speakers were involved to some extent. The speakers were PB members - a round table discussion type presentation.

Both work - its just a different approach.

TGW
The BC attendance varied but was smaller than the first TX meetings. IIRC the Second Conf (Arlington II) was the biggest. I cant say about which had the biggest paid attendance vs number of people.

One more thought, Sept-Dec is a busy time for sportsman. Between preparing for hunting season, actual hunting season, out of state hunting trips, then holidays, preparing for winter(cattle wise), there are more weekends that are prebooked than any other time of the year.
in the past I wondered if the PB team could show a graphic with a US or world map of where the current forum registered users come from, say 'x' amount per state, or if it is easier to generate the data, the PB magazine subscriber counts by zip code. It doesn't surprise me that the IL event had the potential for the best attendance.

I guess I feel like this is a super dumb question, but is the goal of the PB conferences to create profit to help keep everything going through the next year? If so then bringing in more vendors would be a plus and one could also bring in 'vendors' who would provide guided fishing tours in the local area for additional cost with some proceeds going to the event. Then I could see how attendance is critical and geographical location should be considered.

But if the event is OK at a break even at best then it would make sense to me that you could scale them down, less vendors, less speakers, smaller venue, more lodging options, or even commuting vs overnight stays and have a series of regional meetings.

What folks do to host at their own property is not considered an official PB event and is just great people getting together with great people. These are very much appreciated too!
Brian timing is a problem, that is for sure. Hard to get a date that accommodates everyone. I kind of also have to work around our schedule too. It is pretty flexible but we do have some family reunions and commitments to work around.

The main thing I was thinking about was the weather. This will mostly be an outside event but we do have a shed in case of some less than favorable weather. Summer is too hot and busy. Late fall the weather can get cold. By the end of September we are usually finished up with corn harvest and not yet started with bean harvest. I don't really do much in the fields any more, but I do like to stay available if needed. And most years we have some really pleasant weather then.

Eric my intention was something informal like Highflyers event. Just a get together of friends made here on PBF. If Bob would like to make it more than that I would entertain any ideas. He has been to my place and has stayed in Pittsburg more than once so is somewhat familiar with the area.

I do not expect huge numbers. If we get a dozen we will have fun. I would be surprised if we get more than a couple dozen. If we get 50 we still could handle it. But it will give a chance for some of the PBF'ers within driving distance to have a face to face. That was my intention. Nothing like a conference.
canyoncreek, there was never a major PB Conference in Illinois.

If you're referencing ewest's most recent post where he mentions Arlington, he is saying the second Arlington meeting or "II."
Got it, my bad on reading the post. Rats, I was hoping that there actually was a midwest conference in the past as that would give hope that it might happen again frown

Thanks for the correction
Originally Posted By: snrub
my intention was something informal like Highflyers event. Just a get together of friends made here on PBF.


HighFlyer hosts great local Pond Boss get-togethers. I've been to two at the HighFlyer ranch and enjoyed every minute. I am getting closer to being able to host one, hey maybe in the Fall of 2018...we'll see. The local PB get-together at Overton's Fisheries was a lot of fun as well.
I'll start off by saying that mine is most likely a terrible opinion on the subject and therefore shouldn't be assigned much weight, but here goes. It's only one opinion from a socially withdrawn individual anyway.

Is it expensive to attend a PB conference? Heck yes. Is it worth it? Well....in my case probably not. But if someone is new to ponds, or totally infatuated with everything pondish, I have no doubt they will come away feeling satisfied. I have been to a conference at Big Cedar, and have attended a few regional events. And without a doubt the thing that still stays with me even today, is getting to meet, and hang out with people I met through the website. It's great.

Now the speakers and presentations? I'm on the fence. I feel that a lot, a whole lot actually, of conference content and magazine content as well, is almost painfully detailed. If I'm laying up a concrete block retaining wall, I don't need to know where the aggregate inside the block was procured, and by what quarrying method. I just need to know that the finished block meets relevant specs, and some help on how to lay the first course straight and level would be most appreciated. I can take it from there.

And that's where the pond/fish infatuation comes into play. If you're one of those ultra detail guys, you have much to gain by attending the presentations. The same with the vendors... in this day and age, I can find pretty much whatever I want where product and info is concerned, right at my keyboard. If you need to see it firsthand, or fondle it, or delve into excruciatingly detailed analysis with a rep, then that's another great reason to attend.

But if you're going for some simple fellowship, to meet the people you know from the forum, that's a bit of a different animal for me. That's the part I like.....just hanging out and talking about everything....not just ponds or fish. And you can do that at a conference. But it isn't always easy, due to the afore-mentioned presentations and vendors. It sometimes seemed to me that there was too much happening to allow much fellowship. I have enjoyed myself much more at regional get togethers, some "sanctioned" by PB, some just off the cuff, hanging out and fishing. So is a conference worth it, if socializing is your goal? To me it isn't, but that's just me.

Is the PB enterprise geared towards Texans? I would definitely say yes. There's a strong Texas contingent, many know each other, PB itself is based in Texas, and well, let's just throw it out there: PB is a business. And the goal is profit. Why wouldn't you play to the money, just a little? If I had a business selling maple syrup supplies, I wouldn't spend as much time talking to folks in Tennessee as I would people in Vermont. I would be happy to sell product to Tennessee, and would be glad to travel and promote my business wherever the opportunity presented itself. But the bulk of my energy would probably be spent further north. That's where my bread ( or pancake) is buttered at.

The growing season for fish is longer down south. It doesn't mean the northern pondmeisters are removed from the theatre, it just means their seats are a little further from the stage. Nothing personal, just economics.
Not a terrible opinion at all sprkplug. Sounds pretty thoughtful if you ask me.

The focus of the get together I am planning is just going to be mostly hanging out with like minded friends. Maybe a little fishing and if we come up with some informative stuff that is fine too. But just getting to know other PBF'ers is the main goal.

You are right about a major conference being jam packed so much that social time is sometimes limited. I have a little bit of a hard time socializing at such events anyway. So many people in one place kind of intimidates me. I feel much more comfortable in a smaller group.
John, Sparkie
You both hit it on the head!
I'm going to disagree. (Imagine that)

The conference is what you make of it.

Yes there are booths with wears to see and there are great speakers with a great deal of information and there are a lot of people to talk with. All true. But if that is all you take form the conference, you have missed the elephants in the room. Yes I can watch youtube and see "experts" doing anything I want to "learn" but, I can interact with everyone at the conference. I get to ask my questions, and I get to answer the questions posed to me. I get to laugh with people from all over the gambit. I get to talk to real people that have done interesting things and I get to ask them why.

Interaction, friendship, reunions and sharing are why we go. We look forward to the conferences and save up early. In short, we plan on these events and can't wait for the next one.

Funny how many people pay for cigarettes, alcohol, game day tickets, parking, ect. and other "treats" and balk at paying for knowledge. Amazing.


rant complete.
Brian, I don’t pay for alcohol, cigarettes, or game day tickets. Have zero desire for all three. If I were to think about it, I might come up with when the last time I paid for parking was. I know the point you’re trying to make, but my point is that I see no reason to pay for what I’m not going to use. That’s why I don’t subscribe to the mag anymore.

I do not consider ponds/fish to be a rapidly evolving, fast paced, constantly changing endeavor. Or at least not applicable to my level of involvement. I have no problem paying for answers, provided I have a question in the first place. I don’t anymore. My level of knowledge is sufficient for my level of involvement with our ponds. And that knowledge came mostly from this forum. When somebody builds the ultimate BG, I’m all ears. But until that happens, those same BG that have been stocked in Hoosier ponds for the last 50 years are doing very well for me. And for my ambitions, I have them figured out as far as I need to.

I agree on the fellowship angle of attending a conference, and said so in my earlier post. That’s the draw for me. But to be blunt, taking off work and driving 1600 miles to spend a couple days, while spending several hundred dollars to do so, is to me, silly. You live in Texas. Myself and many others facing the same conundrum do not. If I’m going to take the time and spend the money, it needs to be on something for the entire family.

In other words, attending a conference does not provide an acceptable return on my investment. Harsh perhaps, but true nonetheless.
Tony,
That's a different answer.
Actually, Spark, I don't think you pay for usage of the forum and you 'use' it all the time (now, granted, we have (1) anonymous donor this year, and that could be you. If so, my first point is mute, and that is not to try and 'call' you out; obviously the amount of active members that donate is low).

So, I think your comment that you "....see no reason to pay for what I’m not going to use," may not wholly truthful.

You also don't mention that you self-admittedly don't like being around groups of people, more so than just discomfort. In fact, I think you have even said that your own family gatherings are hard for you get through. Nothing wrong with that, but certainly, that would be a major factor in 'not' going to large conferences.

I also take exception to the comment that Pond Boss caters to Texans. Sure Lusk is from Texas and that was where it all started, but (3) PB Con's have been in Missouri.

Regarding general comments about affluence and how it may relate to being able to 'afford' to attend one of the conferences, I would suggest that just be even being a land owner, and a land owner with a pond, you are already at a higher level of 'affluence' compared to the rest of the population. This fact is one of the reason why we all feel so much kinship here...we mostly all share that 'land ownership' mentality.

Finally, I'm miffed as to why you seek to let the forum know that you don't subscribe to the magazine, repeatedly. Do you want others to follow your example? A lot of us subscribe to the magazine simply to support Pond Boss.
Sunil, as a moderator it feels to me that you are walking close to the line of making several very personal attacks. Highlighting your issues with his generosity, his personality flaws, his personal affluence (wealth), and his honest feeling that he doesn't get much from the magazine anymore as negative things make me feel uncomfortable. Perhaps you can take further discussion with him about these issues into a private message.

Spark has given back to many of us in a multitude of ways (even offering free advice via private message when our small engines need tuning...). he has given in many ways to the forum and I can't see he owes any money beyond what he feels truly inclined to give.

Missouri (and Texas) are a long way away from Freedom Indiana.

This thread was giving everyone the opportunity to give honest feedback about going to these events. The feedback from those who actually went should be the most important. Those who didn't go should be free to say why they didn't go, or what might have changed their plans to allow them to go. I was hoping we could keep the environment friendly and supportive so EVERYONE could feel free to speak honestly about the good and the bad and the PB team could use that feedback constructively. I hope more will weigh in on this.

I hope there was opportunity for this feedback to be given in writing at the time of the conference? Was their feedback sheets distributed and collected at the time of the conference to rate the speakers, event venue, food, cost, and to ask how things could be improved so that more could come? Having that feedback while the conference is fresh in their mind is helpful. You also have to be sure that people feel comfortable leaving the feedback so you have to accept anonymous feedback too.

It takes courage to be honest about your feelings in this forum and we want people's feedback to be accepted. Calling them out as lesser members because they don't see conference costs as justifiable for their family, or because they don't donate enough to the PB Forum or didn't subscribe enough years to the magazine is going to scare folks away from expressing their feelings.

I hope this thread isn't locked as it really was a great way to get those feelings out in the open.
Originally Posted By: Sunil
Finally, I'm miffed as to why you seek to let the forum know that you don't subscribe to the magazine, repeatedly. .


Yes I agree Sunil.....talk about "biting the hand that feeds".

Blah blah blah about all the reasons NOT to Subscribe to Pond Boss Magazine which could very well discourage newbies or people on the fence from subscribing...(OMG such a HUGE quality of life threatening expense to subscribe to Pond Boss Magazine! - booo whoo")...but then cover the passive aggressive by claiming "but that's just me". Sure PondBoss is for profit....just like almost everyone on this forum is in some kind of job or endeavor "for profit"....there are places in the world that discourage profit like hellholes North Korea and Cuba and we see how that works out.
Please, let's not endeavour to drive someone from the forum. A lot of my neighbors around here have ponds much nicer than my little puddles, and they are by no means affluent. Land passed down from family, etc. Land and dirt work is almost "dirt cheap" here compared to most other places.

Sprkplug's posts have helped me a lot since I have been a member, and I thank him. I have even PM'd with him about engine problems, and he led me to the correct conclusion.
canyoncreek, I appreciate your comments. It could look like a personal attack if you are looking at it too closely, but it's not.

I would suggest to step back from it a bit and digest Spark's two posts, and how a lot of 'color' is left out of the final opinion.

If you don't support the forum, or subscribe to the magazine, who would think that you would attend the conference? If somebody doesn't pay for much of anything, what weight do you put on their opinion to NOT spend even more money?

Finally, anything I said specifically about Spark is based on what is openly discussed on the forum.
A lot of people from different areas also traveled to Missouri for the Conferences there.
John, nobody is saying that Spark doesn't help people, or that he shouldn't be around.

We're talking about attendance to the conferences and I'm qualifying his comments with things that he left out.

My comment about affluence as it applies to land/pond ownership is a general statement, but still valid. Even if you inherited your land/pond, you still pay taxes on the land, and spend more than the average person to maintain and/or improve your land.
The reality is everyone's opinion is valid for the reason they do or do not attend conferences. This is input to the ones that put the conferences on. The conference designers know they can not get everybody to attend, so by knowing the thoughts of the potential attendees they at least know who best to target.

I did not necessarily agree with all sprkplug said, but it does not mean his opinion is not worth anything to conference designers and he certainly did take the time and the effort to make a thoughtful reply.

My idea on opinions is that first of all, everybody has one. And second if I only wanted to consider my own views, why not just talk to myself?
Agreed that everyone's opinion is valid.

I'm going to simplify everyone's reason for NOT attending based on what has been stated thus far on this thread (paraphrasing):

John F: Cost
Jeff Calvin: Cost
Canyon: Cost EDIT: Distance, Time
Brian L: Other activities, some cost
SetterGuy: thought it was for professionals
Spark: No Return on Investment
snrub: Cost?? EDIT: He attended.
Sunil: too busy this time (did attend all of the others)
DaveD: Sick/Illness (did attend all of the others)

If I misconstrued your reason for NOT attending, say so, and I'll edit it.

BTW, as moderators, our registration fees and meals/lodging are at our own expense.

Sunil, what did you expect? Asking for a “why” doesn’t guarantee you will receive the answers you hoped for. It’s absolutely true that I would still have a hard time attending if it were free. I mentioned that challenge in my first post. As far as using the forum, I don’t see it that way. I haven’t asked for info in years. I try to help when I can. If I need to pay for the priveledge to help well...
I think this shows why these conferences are so hard to pull off. People, even pond folks, are different in so many ways:
Financial
Personality types(extroverts vs introverts)-I'm the last
Knowledge levels, What I knew and wanted to learn last PB vs this PB is a good bit different
How frugle you are smile
Everyone sees value differently
On and on.......

But feedback is always good, even when its not what you want to hear.
OK, Spark. I had no expectations for 'why' people didn't attend, and I didn't ask the question.

So let's delve in....

Here's you from three posts back: "I’m still at work so cannot get too in-depth right now, but I’m glad this came up. Will try and collect my thoughts for later. Definitely feel what others are saying, and I’m glad to see I am not alone in thinking things might be a bit out of kilter."

So something is 'out of kilter,' and you're 'glad' this topic came up so you can give an explanation of why you didn't go to the PB Con when all the while, you really had no intention of going to the PB Con at all, even if it was free.

In your next (2) posts, the first being your composed reply to the 'question,' and the second being your reply to highflyer, you cite a lot of reasons for not attending, and evolve to the conclusion that attending the conference does "...not provide an acceptable return on my investment."

And finally, in conclusion, it's now set forth that you're just here to help others.

I'll try to digest all that and figure out how it helps Pond Boss.

And, I never said you had to pay anything, nor anyone else had to pay. I only used that fact that you didn't pay anything to highlight that there could be no expectation that you would actually pay for even more Pond Boss than what you already have (eg/ attending a Pond Boss Conference).
Wow. No good deed goes unpunished.
Delve in we shall...

I never said you asked the question. But you still responded angrily to my answers, even though they were not directed towards you.

When I said I thought something was out of kilter, and I needed time to collect my thoughts, I wasn't just talking about the conference. I'm talking about the conference, the magazine, and even the forum. In my opinion, all three have really began favoring a certain segment....affluent pond owners. When I read a story in the mag about someone building a 35 acre lake, with waterfalls, petting zoos, three story floating docks, wetbar, whatever....then read where it took an entire fleet of earthmovers three weeks working round the clock seven days a week to gouge the thing out, and we haven't even touched on the stocking plan...$$$$$$$$

Well, that is so far removed from what I consider pond reality, that it becomes kinda' ridiculous in my eyes. And I'm betting that for every one of those pond high rollers, there's hundreds of down-to-earth pond owners, with a one acre BOW, working overtime every week to make ends meet. Contrary to what some may believe, there are a great many pond owners who do not have the disposable income to spend on a conference. I don't know of ONE pondowner who would entertain the idea of flying someone out to consult onsite. Not one. Sure, I get the appeal of playing to the high rollers...I totally do. And making money is what business is about, plain and simple. But why are we wondering about low attendance, and low subscription rates? It just seems obvious to me. Maybe a little more consideration for the common pondowner, with his or her goals.

And let me aid your digestion of how all this helps pondboss......it doesnt. I'm not here to help pondboss, I'm trying to help other pondmeisters when I can. Pondboss doesn't need my help. Or at least it shouldn't.

Finally, lets talk payment. No, I do not subscribe. No, I do not support the forum any longer. When I decided earlier this year to stop subscribing, I did contact Bob and donate the cost of a subscription to a member who was unable to afford one himself. I asked for it to remain anonoymous. Maybe the donor you spoke of earlier is me, I don't know. I felt that just because I didn't see the value any longer, didn't mean that someone else wouldn't. And I told Bob so.

I don't figure this thread will survive much longer, so whatever. If someone is enamored with Pondboss, that's great, no problem on my end. I have learned a great deal from my time spent here, and really do appreciate the info. But I feel I settled any debt owed some time ago.
I opened a can of worms with my initial comment about the editorial a couple days ago. I should probably quit the forum. I feel almost as if I harassed someone.
Originally Posted By: Sunil
Agreed that everyone's opinion is valid.

I'm going to simplify everyone's reason for NOT attending based on what has been stated thus far on this thread (paraphrasing):

John F: Cost
Jeff Calvin: Cost
Canyon: Cost
Brian L: Other activities, some cost
SetterGuy: thought it was for professionals
Spark: No Return on Investment
snrub: Cost??
Sunil: too busy this time (did attend all of the others)
DaveD: Sick/Illness (did attend all of the others)

If I misconstrued your reason for NOT attending, say so, and I'll edit it.

BTW, as moderators, our registration fees and meals/lodging are at our own expense.



I did attend Sunil. I just said I "coughed" at the total cost to attend. But I do that about a lot of things, so it does not mean all that much. It's just my kids inheritance, after all. grin

And nobody needs to quit the forum John F. It is just kind of like the effects of eating beans. It causes some noise but passes eventually.
Originally Posted By: John Fitzgerald
I opened a can of worms with my initial comment about the editorial a couple days ago. I should probably quit the forum. I feel almost as if I harassed someone.


No, you didn't harass at all. The world is not all easy questions and communal answers. Pretending otherwise, or limiting responses to what fits within the ideal range, never provides an accurate assessment of the pulse of anything..... You can't have it both ways. Truth, or feel-good moments? Take your pick.
I deleted my original post on this topic as I have never attended a PB conference and did not feel my input was relevant. But now since Sunil is gathering data, here goes.

I did not attend due to health (heart can't decide whether it wants to stop or beat too fast).

We have a little .5 +/- acre watertable pond with aeration already so not really interested in buying vendor products or learning about managing ponds different than my own. Anything I learned would however be a plus. Tough job for the organizers to come up with speakers and topics that are relevant to most everybody.

My main reason for attending would have been to meet other forum members, you know, put names to faces and lie to each other about the size fish in our ponds. smile So, for me, expensive for what I'm looking to get out of it. I don't really need the luxury.

To be honest, the GTG Snrub is planning fits better with my goals. I will do my best to attend that. I might only spend a couple three hours at Snrub's before I need to head back to the motel but, it will still be well worth the trip to meet some of you jokers! It might take me a couple days to get there and a couple days to get home but I can always try to find interesting sites on my journey like "Worlds largest ball of string," biggest ear of corn, two headed piglet, etc. at gas stations and truck stops along the way to keep me entertained! grin
Originally Posted By: Sunil
Agreed that everyone's opinion is valid.

I'm going to simplify everyone's reason for NOT attending based on what has been stated thus far on this thread (paraphrasing):

John F: Cost
Jeff Calvin: Cost
Canyon: Cost
Brian L: Other activities, some cost
SetterGuy: thought it was for professionals
Spark: No Return on Investment
snrub: Cost?? EDIT: He attended.
Sunil: too busy this time (did attend all of the others)
DaveD: Sick/Illness (did attend all of the others)

If I misconstrued your reason for NOT attending, say so, and I'll edit it.

BTW, as moderators, our registration fees and meals/lodging are at our own expense.



Small correction, my first barrier is distance. Location, location. Vacation time is precious, spending much of the time away in the car getting there and getting back is a deal breaker. Of course if it is far away then you also lock in the costs of possibly airfare (to shorten the travel time), overnight lodging and meals.
A couple observations in this interesting series of exchanges.

1. To start with as an overall comment if people aren't happy with the magazine and content, rather than just complain maybe write an article. Look inside the next issue of the magazine, usually close to the Table of Contents a few pages in. Every issue has a plea for images, photos, short stories, or new ideas for pond management. Don't want to write an article? Maybe just an email or phone call to Pond Boss with a few ideas for articles which interest you. I bet this type of input would be much appreciated.

2. Sprkplug, to be blunt I don't see the concept of favoring of affluent pond owners in the magazine, forum, or conference(s) that you mention. I went and grabbed 3 issues of the last year and there were articles on large ponds, a large pond with a liner installation, and a lake association. There were more articles on docks, relative weight data and usage, genetics, small pond management strategies, feeding options, erosion issues and options, secchi disks, and aquatic vegetation. Seems to be pretty well balanced to me.
3. Relative to the conference, your concept of that totally baffled me. Were there successful, affluent, large landowners and large pond owners there? Absolutely. Were topics, discussions, actions skewed that way? Absolutely not. Maybe I'm missing the point but I’m not into the class warfare thing, if a guy with a 35 acre pond has an idea, method, or strategy that I can use or learn from I'm going to use it.
I also have paid to have someone consult with me onsite. I didn't do it because I'm a high roller or playing a high roller. I did it to avoid making mistakes. Why do I want to avoid mistakes? Because I'm doing all the work myself. My fleet of mostly antique dozers, pans, excavators, and draglines isn't expensive. It’s just old and affordable and ties in well with my other hobbies. My old crap might not survive the work I'm hoping to do with them, they certainly won't survive having to do it twice because I screw up. I've gone over the top with my points above but oh well. Just wanted to show a point of view on a comment from a different perspective.

Overall the point in this whole discussion is we all enjoy ponds and the management aspect. We all have different goals and objectives. For me I see a value in the magazine, forum, and conferences for the ends I'm managing towards. That's what information I try gather and what I try to make of it. I figure the less effort I put in limits my potential success. Thanks.

Bryan
Interesting thread.

First off, not every opinion is valid. Here thankfully, most are.

Tony, I remember you catching the LMB at Scott's years ago. I now wonder where that Tony has gone. Is your new job that stressful that it has changed you? I don't know. What I do know is you have changed. I still count you among my pondboss friends, but your outlook has changed.

Sunil, You too are a pondboss brother. Your passion and willingness to help out is admirable. You are part of the family.

John, after you host a "GTG," you will never see things the same. It changes your outlook.

I just spent the last few days with Bob. We had a great time working on a project for our farm. I could have paid someone to do the job, but now the project has a life and story. It is part of our history. I enjoyed the efforts and the lessons. It was good to take the time to work with a friend.

The intangibles, that is the place to look. For me lately it has been sunsets. God is a masterful painter, but you have to look when he does his work, or you will miss it. Pondboss conferences are not that spectacular, but they are fleeting.

Finally,Yes there is a cost to attend a conference. Life costs. I have a pond for my reasons. The best reason I have is the smile on a child's face who has just caught their first fish.

Do I have money to burn, nope, but I wish I did. So for now it will be choices, and I chose to go see my friends and try to learn something else. Like I said to Bob last night, the one thing that humbles me the is the fact that there is way more stuff I will never know than the stuff I know really really well. That is just the way it is, but that does not mean I have to stop trying to learn it all.

Funny, missing the boat is not something I thought I would be writing about on a pond focused forum. Something else I have learned.
Originally Posted By: John Fitzgerald
I opened a can of worms with my initial comment about the editorial a couple days ago. I should probably quit the forum. I feel almost as if I harassed someone.


John, I for one, can ask you to forget about quitting the forum. In the 2 short years that you've been here, you've asked many intriguing questions provoking many insightful replies. That's just the kind of contribution that makes this forum thrive.
Thanks for your posts.
Roger
Ok Bill D. Here ya go.

Big Brutus shovel

No more than 20 miles from my pond.

Who says we don't have tourist attractions in SE Kansas. "Big ball of twine" eat your heart out. grin

Come on down!
Spark, you stated..."The world is not all easy questions and communal answers. Pretending otherwise, or limiting responses to what fits within the ideal range, never provides an accurate assessment of the pulse of anything..... You can't have it both ways. Truth, or feel-good moments? Take your pick."

Just so I can understand...does this 'pulse' that you're referring to, the one that none of us are getting, or 'pretending otherwise' about, translate that we are missing input from you about how to get someone to pay to attend a Pond Boss Conference when you vociferously will not subscribe to the magazine, nor financially support something you spend hours a week using (the forum)?

In other words, we're not getting your 'pulse?' If so, we're going to have a lot of ground to cover to get you from being a non-paying participant over to a several-hundred-dollar-paying customer.

I'm really trying to understand this, considering this gem you squatted out prior to the quote above: "And let me aid your digestion of how all this helps pondboss......it doesnt. I'm not here to help pondboss, I'm trying to help other pondmeisters when I can. Pondboss doesn't need my help. Or at least it shouldn't."

I think I finally get it. You're not here to help Pond Boss, but you want to help other pondmeisters when you can......using the Pond Boss Forum. That's certainly laudable, but maybe consider the vessel you're using to spread your good works.

So maybe try not to hurt Pond Boss by publicly espousing your own personal reasons for not subscribing to the magazine which could in turn cause other forum readers to not subscribe (there are hundreds if not thousands of readers of this forum).

Maybe don't hurt the Pond Boss business by publicly espousing the numerous reasons why you specifically didn't attend the conference which could in turn cause other forum readers to not attend (there are hundreds if not thousands of readers on this forum).

I think it was Confucius who said.. "...please don't crap in our own bed."
Originally Posted By: snrub
Ok Bill D. Here ya go.

Big Brutus shovel

No more than 20 miles from my pond.

Who says we don't have tourist attractions in SE Kansas. "Big ball of twine" eat your heart out. grin

Come on down!


Now that's what I'm talkin about! smile
I think this is the time to say THANKS to Mr. Lusk for the conferences, the magazine and this forum and for it's Moderators he choose. And I am thankful for everyone who contributes to the questions and the possible answers "it depends" I have received here. I'm ok with the ones that do not attend, or contribute cash into this good place because most everyone has contributed in knowledge or experiences with ponds and lakes. But, if I was Bob I would like for things to maybe balance out when it comes to his expenses in providing such things as listed above. Or at least be a low cost expense for doing business. And Sparkie, I hope you do not get so upset with the conversation here that you reduce your attendance. I don't have hybd bg, or work on motors, elevators or make maple syurp. And I think we all change over time, I know I am a little more grumpy than I have been all my life. But I think you contribute here even though we may not see things the same in our other life's experiences. And Sunil along with others here, thanks for all you do here.

One more thing about the conference. One of the reasons I attended was to here and meet a certain speaker, but he did not show for some reason or another. It happens to all of us, not being able to be where we agreed to be. But maybe if I am lucky I will see him at the next one.
"So maybe try not to hurt Pond Boss by publicly espousing your own personal reasons for not subscribing to the magazine which could in turn cause other forum readers to not subscribe (there are hundreds if not thousands of readers of this forum).

Maybe don't hurt the Pond Boss business by publicly espousing the numerous reasons why you specifically didn't attend the conference which could in turn cause other forum readers to not attend (there are hundreds if not thousands of readers on this forum).
"

Wow Sunil, I'm not sure if I should be flattered by your assertion that one HBG loving,socially inept, Hoosier pondmeister wields such a powerful influence over the pond community as to have them hanging off his every word. Or maybe I should be concerned at the idea that the PB grasp of the cliff face is so tenuous that the smallest dislodging of rock will send it hurtling downward. I don't think that is the case. At least I sincerely hope it isn't.

Brian, I remember that day also. It was really hot. And it was really cold when a bunch of PB's spent the weekend at the Herman Bros place, punching holes through the ice and jigging up some awesome fish. I do recall the temp. being just about right when still another group gathered off Bruce Condello's dock, though. Those three events rank up there pretty high on my list of memorable occurrences. I thoroughly enjoyed each one. I mention them in order to help illustrate that yes, things change. As we progress through life we look at things differently. Our perspectives change. What was once important, or even beliefs accepted at face value, we begin to question.

Brian I am surely different now, than I was then. But that change didn't occur overnight, or within this thread. It's been accumulating over time where PondBoss is concerned. I think Sunil wants to make this about the conference....but to me this was just the latest incident in a chain of events. I don't separate them out, they are all related, and all PondBoss.

"Spark, you stated..."The world is not all easy questions and communal answers. Pretending otherwise, or limiting responses to what fits within the ideal range, never provides an accurate assessment of the pulse of anything..... You can't have it both ways. Truth, or feel-good moments? Take your pick."

Just so I can understand...does this 'pulse' that you're referring to, the one that none of us are getting, or 'pretending otherwise' about, translate that we are missing input from you about how to get someone to pay to attend a Pond Boss Conference when you vociferously will not subscribe to the magazine, nor financially support something you spend hours a week using (the forum)?
"

Here we go. I'm just going to jump headfirst into this, because I'm not sure how to approach it any other way. Sorry if it gets pretty jumbled up.

Remember all the discussions we tried to have over the years regarding water rights, property rights, WOTUS, etc? In each case the conversations were shut down. "too political". Well of course it was...the two elements are forever entwined. That should not be grounds to avoid discussing something THAT AFFECTS EVERY PONDOWNER HERE. But no, we can't have discord among the membership, no matter what. No discussion. We'll just hope it goes away.

There's a seed sown in the decade of sprkplug's discontentment.

Sunil, you and I agree on this point...there are hundreds of readers of this forum. And a handful of these people live, and are known by, yours truly. They do not subscribe. Care to guess why? Because they see the mag, and some of the forum discussions, as too highbrow. Now I read on that same forum where others are feeling a little left out in that regard also. And when it gets brought up in this thread, out come the attacks? Just because YOU don't see it, doesn't mean it isn't there, boys. I have said this for years. And I'm apparently not alone.

Another seed in the ground.

And just in the last few days, someone asked about opening old threads. The all clear was given by everyone who responded, including the mods. Then, when the subject of GG was introduced, we see a reversal, with ewest claiming that it's best to let sleeping dogs lie, or something along those lines. I responded to ewest, in more civil tones than what someone is responding to me now, and my post is yanked while another post is made regarding no personal attacks??

Which is it boys? Somebody needs to own it, admit that a mistake has been made, and clarify which of the conflicting answers is the correct one.

Another seed. And by now they have all sprouted.

And most recently in this thread, I am informed that I should be paying for the privilege of trying to help someone, because I'm USING this forum as the platform to do so. Here's another shocker: I don't see it that way. Use, to me, implies some benefit gained to the user. I'm not asking questions, stealing ideas, needing help....nothing. I am completely content with my current level of knowledge regarding my pond projects and fish. I have a pretty good handle on it, and I do not expect a paradigm shift where bluegills are concerned, in the near future.

Over the past several years I have written articles for the mag, supported the forum financially, and up until recently, subscribed. Once again, I feel I've paid my debt.

Like it or not, believe it or not, there's a problem here someplace. I didn't bring this up, remember? Someone else who shares some of what I've been trying to say for years, did. Getting nasty and insulting when someone has the audacity to suggest that the PB universe might have drifted out of focus, isn't helpful.

if you ask for suggestions, be prepared for what you might receive.
If there is one thing I have I have learned through all my years of being in business for myself it is that you will NEVER make EVERYONE happy. Period. The END. If you strive to satisfy the wants of every single customer you are doomed to fail. Best one can do is have the highest possible average of happy customers and I think PB does that very well.

For me driving to a conference in TX is just not in the cards time wise, etc. However, I will certainly attend the next one that is in Atlanta. Mainly just to meet everyone and have a good time. Learning more is just a bonus.

I am a finance guy so I can easily look at this with an investment perspective. I spend ~$60 per year with PB between my mag subscription and forum donation. I could spend that for the next 40 years ($2,400) and I would consider the success I have had with my pond and the friendships I've made here a HELL of a return on that investment. Admittedly, I place a fairly high value on good relationships and my family and friend's enjoyment of the pond especially when I start thinking about grandkids, etc.
Did the organizers hand out or provide an easy online means to directly give feedback for the venue, location, activities, speakers, date or dates, length of conference at past conferences?

if not, why not? There is a lot of pent up feedback being released in this thread and it needs to be released continually, hopefully in a constructive way, immediately at the time of the event.

Spark might be on to something that focus or feelings in the forum are drifting or have drifted and if one wants to get a better handle on the pulse you check it more often, and ideally while the event is happening.

I will apologize publicly for being part of the revival of the GG thread. I'm sorry. I simply didn't know the backstory as it happened before my time and even though it might have woken up a sleeping dog to me it was informative to learn about. If we don't know our history we run the risk of repeating it. I was surprised that the mods so quickly tried to squelch the information when one can easily google it and we had just been given permission to talk about old threads. I'm sorry to hear that Spark had his post deleted, that probably was partly my fault too.

It seems like the seed he planted about the double standard in acceptable behavior between the common joe user and the moderators might have germinated
CC,
The standard is the standard. I have only been here for about seven years, but everyone I have interacted with lives by the standard. This is a magical forum. Yes there are problems and quarrels, but they work themselves out like any other family problem. Sometimes that means people drift away. It's normal.

I assure you that you did not cause this. It has been going on for some time now. I like facts, logic and reasoning, others like emotions. It is a free country, mostly. Pondboss will go on. It will learn form this and grow. In the end, we all make our choices. I choose to stay engaged. George was mentioned earlier in this post, I remember that thread and the responses from them both. George would give you the shirt off his back and scold you for loosing yours at the same time. It was how he was. But he would not let BS go unchallenged. George has been gone for over two years and if that thread still bothers someone, they will have to work it out for themselves. That may include drifting away.
I never met George, but I admired him for the quality that high flyer mentions. He wasn’t afraid to call BS, and speak his mind when he saw something not quite right. I can’t say what his feelings might’ve been on this current subject, or what he would’ve said publicly. But I believe there was a part of him that would’ve given a discrete thumbs up to the guys who had the nerve to suggest that there might just be a little sleight of hand, behind the pond boss “magic”.
Okay, I'll bite.

Tony, I am unsure if you understand the "Magic" of this group. It does not exist due to slight of hand. Consider how many people you are painting with your brush.

George loved to discuss and argue for the same reason. Understanding. Would he have given a thumbs up to all this, Well that is up for debate. What I do know is that he would not have kept quite about this. And there would be a scolding involved.
George paid out of his pocket to go to conventions. He tied flies for PB until his hands were bloody and I had to make him stop. He worked at the conventions even when he was sick with cancer. He used his connections to help PB through donations and having his industry friends donate all to help kids get an education through PB. George helped with the creation of the PB Forum rules and followed them. He would often ask privately why we gave people so much slack when they did not follow the rules. George did everything he could , even up to the time of his death, to support this PB family. Those were his actions which speak volumes about what he believed. George was a man of principle and would never be involved in any group if he thought there was some slight of hand.
Originally Posted By: highflyer
Okay, I'll bite.

Tony, I am unsure if you understand the "Magic" of this group. It does not exist due to slight of hand. Consider how many people you are painting with your brush.

George loved to discuss and argue for the same reason. Understanding. Would he have given a thumbs up to all this, Well that is up for debate. What I do know is that he would not have kept quite about this. And there would be a scolding involved.


Maybe that’s the thing Brian. I think we might disagree on which side needed the scolding.
What was George's PB ID? I would like to figure out to whom you all keep referring to.
Spark, just to help you out here....george would be giving you a public flogging. He would not be giving you any kind of 'discrete thumbs up.'

george absolutely HATED any kind of negativity. HATED it with a passion.

And george would not sit by and let someone do any kind of harm to Pond Boss at all.

I can't believe you invoked him to your defense for some perceived 'sleight of hand' or dubious 'magic' on the part of Pond Boss, or any of the rest of us.
Originally Posted By: BrianL
What was George's PB ID? I would like to figure out to whom you all keep referring to.


He was "george1" here. He was also "george" way back in the beginning on the original server. Read up on him, he was the real deal.

I was glad to be able to call him a friend.
Sunil I'm a big boy, I don't need defending. You, Brian, and Eric all knew George, I didn't. If you say he wouldn't of admired anyone who had the guts to stand up, then I will take your word for it. But look at your recent post.

George hated negativity with a passion. What I get from that, is that the flogging I would be receiving stems not from the subject matter, but from arguing over it in the first place. And that's exactly what I have been trying to say. I've said it in this thread, I've said it through the years, and I said it in the post that Eric(?) removed.

Negativity is necessary for growth. But we don't permit that here, because this is a magic place. I know of another magic place in orlando, staffed by a giant mouse and his friends. And it's pretty magic all right. Everything is rainbows and unicorns in there. But it isn't REAL, is it??

And I said as much in the assassinated post. Something to the order of negativity being necessary...negativity promotes dialogue, dialogue promotes thinking about the hard stuff, thinking promotes progress. Trying to exist without asking the hard questions about difficult subject matter isn't magic....it's stagnation.

And that's fine if everyone is on board, and happy with the illusion. No problem. The problem, arises when the magic begins to wane. "Why didn't more people come to the conference, or what can we do to promote greater subscription rates?"

See, once those questions get asked you need to lift the veil. Asking the residents of the magic kingdom for answers may be fruitless....after all, they are happy just the way things are now. They don't see any problem, do not want to even know about a problem. And if a few do courageously make suggestions, or imply that the magic is obscuring reality to an increasing degree, then it's anarchy unleashed...."the kingdom will surely collapse".

No, it won't.

All I'm suggesting is to take a look at what's been posted in this thread. A very high percentage of folks listed the camaraderie as reasons for attending. I agree. But that can be had around a table at a Denny's somewhere. Common, down-to-earth, awesome pondowning folks are everywhere. Why not try and cater a little bit to their needs and abilities?

As far as me, personally? Yes, we all know my social anxiety disorder presents challenges. I'm not asking for change to accommodate me, as I'm always going to be this way. It's easy to Pshaw away my posts on the subject. But guys, I'm not the only one saying things could maybe be better.....isn't it worth a look see?

That's the sleight of hand I'm referring to here on PB. Not implying deliberate deception by any means, on anyone's part. But there is an illusion present, nonetheless.
I have many years in conferences, both as an invited speaker and as an organizer, and perhaps some thoughts might be of use (or not!).

As a presenter/speaker/lab instructor I expected the host organization to pay for my travel and lodging. Meals, incidentals, transfers, etc., I didn't expect to be covered although most of the time they were. Airfare was always the high cost, followed by lodging. I flew cattle class and stayed in a simple room as I'm a simple man and did not require business or first class let alone a suite of sorts. I also expected to have the conference fee(s) waived. Most of the time these fees were waived without discussion, but a few times some back and forth straightened this out. In a nutshell I viewed it as my expertise, experience and knowledge were bringing in 'X' paying bodies, and so having my travel, lodging, and fees covered were fair play. I was aware of other speakers who in addition to this coverage also required a speaking fee. Might be important to note that most of this experience was earned while I was a bachelor, and so traveling the world on someone else's dime and teaching something that I have a passion for was a no brainer. I had no spouse nor child(ren).


As a conference organizer I found out quickly all the bullspit that goes on if allowed between the conference people and the speakers and attendees. I mean just some real picky crap about travel, transfers, lodging, etc. Our first conference we hoped for 100 attendees. We got nearly 200. Second year 350. Third year we limited attendance to 400 and it sold out in advance for the next couple of years. Until I stepped back from the well oiled machine and a few chuckle heads took over who saw dollar signs instead of a kick arse quality event at an affordable price point. Other similar conferences, in duration and topics and speakers, ran around $1000 for attendance (not including lodging). We charged $300. We also were a non-profit and so we weren't in it to make cash.

I think key factors in a successful conference;
- marketing
- timing
- location
- schedule
- topics / speakers
- financial cost

Marketing is always crucial. We didn't need to market because we knew the key speakers and having them participate brought in attendees. But never discount the long reach of marketing because some times attendees come who you never would have thought would come.

Timing - we picked a time of the year wherein there were no competing conferences. I don't know how many conferences there are for ponds / fish management, so this might not be a crucial factor. But timing also with respect to avoiding holidays, school dates of importance, etc. Depending upon the location, having a conference just ahead of or at the tail end of another event can bring in more attendees, such as a professional game, a concert, a festival, etc.

Location - we stayed in a suburb of Atlanta. That meant folks had to transfer from the airport, but it also meant lodging around $35 cheaper per night, more dining options and often lower price point, and more lodging options. Plus ample parking, less congestion, etc. Plus our conference fee including Internet, food, etc., was about 55% cheaper than a large hotel chain downtown.

Schedule - A few things here. One, we had downtime each day for folks to network, hang out, etc. We did two days lunch catered and two days not catered so folks could pick food and go off into groups or what not. We had one official dinner but otherwise again it was up to attendees. Having this time was popular from feedback. It wasn't go go go, there was 15 minutes between sessions, we started at 8:30 AM and ended at 4:30 PM. Two, we had a field trip optional for attendees. This 2 hour trip allowed folks to come along or do their own thing. Most came along to see how easily a computer could be booby trapped to explode - we did this at a local rock quarry complete with emergency services. Also, we had multiple tracks running each day, but we tried to get every topic repeated on a different day and time so ideally an attendee would hit every session they wanted.

Topics / speakers - some of this is above, but we had a variety of topics from beginner to expert and we tried to select speakers who A) knew their sh*t and B) were personable and not a schmuck. I definitely did not invite some experts because of their known attitudes.

Last but clearly important the direct and obvious cost and the overall total cost. We charged a fee that covered all expenses and provided a profit that was put back into the organization for next year's conference. You can't afford to lose money, but you can choose what percent to make. By staying away from a conference center we avoided the high costs associated with it - we chose a university who had a single building that we took over and used for the four day conference. The university already had Internet, labs, and classrooms so costs were minimal. At some point the chuckle heads looked at a conf center and saw just what the entrance fee was to rent it and decided yeah the uni was the best choice for us. LOL

Some already said it best you can't please everybody. You basically try to put on an event for the most number of folks who can attend and learn.
Originally Posted By: ewest
George paid out of his pocket to go to conventions. He tied flies for PB until his hands were bloody and I had to make him stop. He worked at the conventions even when he was sick with cancer. George did everything he could, even up to the time of his death, to support this PB family.


Amen ewest....God Bless Him....this place misses his feisty insight and love for PondBoss!





What about a poll, completely anonymous, asking if you have ever felt like the PB conferences were geared towards affluent pondowners? tabulate the results and see if the numbers merit discussion?

Maybe ask several questions regarding what participants would like to see and experience in the future, and what they would be willing to pay?

Canyoncreek, you do not need to apologize for anything. I would like a public apology from whomever removed my post however, as I feel it was done for personal reasons, and not because it violated any forum rules. I would also appreciate a definitive yes or no answer on whether or not it is okay to revisit old threads.

I see this thing shaking out in one of two ways. Either I'm going to banned camp, or we're going to the old standby of hoping it just goes away on it's own. In the past, I have been told that it was far better to take the high road, and let it go, for the good of the forum. And I did so. But i believe the need to travel at a loftier altitude in this particular case, belongs to a mod. If there is one standard that applies to all of us, this would seem an excellent opportunity to validate that assertion. For the good of the forum.

Either way, I feel I need to make something clear. I'm angry about this whole deal, and I feel I've been wronged. To that end, I am not prepared to simply let it go this time. Please do not confuse what I say next as a warning or threat, as I am very aware that PB will continue for years without sprkplug's participation.... I know that and accept it. But if I am sent to banned camp, do us all a favor and save us all a lot of time, and make the suspension permanent.
Because if you don't, I'm probably going to come right back to this thread on the day my suspension is lifted. Again, I don't say that as a threat, or to try and force someone's hand. I say it out of a strength of conviction that I have been wrongly treated.

To me, how this is eventually handled will speak volumes. It appears everyone is watching.


i've got Xanax but probably not enough to go around cool

guess we could break off chunks



That's awesome Zep! Thank you for your most helpful contribution. I guess it's true, you're never too old to enjoy a little fraternity humor! Ah, the good ole days.....hazing, degradation, exclusion, bullying....true character shapers, those.

Thanks for the walk down memory lane, it's been fun and all, but I'm going back to the grownup table now.
Sparks....that Xanax is powerful stuff....I get anxiety in dental chairs and airplanes...the only time I ever take it....one time I was on a plane ride at night and it got very, very rough....in fact it got dead silent....i had already had a Jack/Coke and Xanax...which is kind of no no....but I remember being so relaxed...I actually thought to myself...."hell I really don't care if this thing goes down....whatever happens happens"....just shows how relaxed it makes me. Yep the good ole days were fun weren't they?...for me that was 1975-1977...me and the posse thought we owned the world...lol...life sure was simple.
Tony,

This is my last thoughts on this.

One, it appears you are judging with emotion, not facts. To what end?

Two, who wronged you? And why do you care?

Third, saying something is not a threat does not make it so.

Fourth, if you want to be banned, walk away. It is obvious to everyone you are displeased with a lot of us, yet most of us don't know why.

Fifth, saying you will not let this go is illogical, and has no answer. Best of luck with this one, its yours.

Finally, anonymous surveys rarely yield scientific results. If you want true results, you need to take proper care to setup your survey. And taking a survey about how much you would like to pay for any good or service is pointless. I always want to pay less, everybody does.

Best of luck with your choices, I hope you find peace.
Spark, thanks for letting us know how we should handle things.
And thank you Sunil, for unabashedly demonstrating the qualities that define our true characters when faced with a challenging situation.
Originally Posted By: highflyer
Tony,

This is my last thoughts on this.

One, it appears you are judging with emotion, not facts. To what end?

Two, who wronged you? And why do you care?

Third, saying something is not a threat does not make it so.

Fourth, if you want to be banned, walk away. It is obvious to everyone you are displeased with a lot of us, yet most of us don't know why.

Fifth, saying you will not let this go is illogical, and has no answer. Best of luck with this one, its yours.

Finally, anonymous surveys rarely yield scientific results. If you want true results, you need to take proper care to setup your survey. And taking a survey about how much you would like to pay for any good or service is pointless. I always want to pay less, everybody does.

Best of luck with your choices, I hope you find peace.


Thanks Brian, I know you have tried to understand my reasoning throughout this entire process, and you’ve done so logically and compassionately. I appreciate that. Whatever happens, I have no reservations at continuing to see you as a friend also.

Since I’ve gone this far, I have little more to lose, so I will delve briefly into politics... a big problem in this country is that few are ever held accountable for their wrongdoings. And the higher up the chain you go, the more we would probably all agree this is true. I’m going to have my feet held to the fire publicly for my role in this thread, and I have it coming. But will the mods face any repercussions?

Eric posted that it was fine to revisit old threads, then admonishes that it’s better to let sleeping dogs lie. I responded that I found it humorous we could switch gears so fast, and that not revisiting old threads with new info/questions would lead to stagnation. He removed my post, citing no personal attacks... there’s a big difference in a personal attack, and being called out because you made a mistake. When that happened, I no longer saw PB, I saw a symptom of what’s wrong with our society. There is a double standard. Two sets of rules. A class division. Is an expensive PB conference another head on the same hydra? I don’t think so, but I do understand how some might?

Things aren’t the same for pond owners everywhere. Sunil’s assertion that having a pond must mean you have more money than regular folks, just shows how far removed from a huge segment of pond owners he really is. Saying crap like that just sets the wedge down a little deeper. And this from a mod no less. Will he face repercussions for his statements and behavior during all this? Will Eric? Is there one standard after all?
Heard about this and finally drug out an IPAD while sitting in a deer blind.

Lusk and Otto own this site. It’s free to us but not to them. They lose money here.

They sponsor the conferences, To the best of my knowledge, none have ever been profitable.

Publicity? I don’t think they need it.

I signed up for the conference but picked up a lung infection that kept me home.

So where am I going with this? When I am given a free ride, I don’t complain about it or criticize the driver for any discomfort that I might feel. If I don’t like the way he is driving or the seats are uncomfortable, I would ask him to stop and let me out.
Always appreciate your input Dave. I wish circumstances would’ve allowed me the chance to shake your hand. I agree that getting out of the car would certainly end the discomfort, but I don’t think it would answer the question of whether or not the company driver had broken any rules of the road.

Good luck with the hunt, mind your elevation and windage my friend.
Merrian-Websters definition of 'Affluence:' affluence: abundance of property : wealth; an abundant flow or supply : profusion

See 'property' in there????!!! (maybe take off the blinders...)

I said land ownership; I never said 'money' or 'wealth,' but you are par for the course when one wants to only hammer in their own view, relentlessly (as has been done countless times on the forum by the same person). Remember your long dissertations on hunting?? That really pleased a lot of folks here; but your opinions on why you don't hunt were soooo important to everyone here, especially those who LOVE to hunt. Actually, scratch that....your opinions on the same were important to you; others...not so much.

Funny how you bring up politics. One of the major problems from '08 to '16 was the sad form of governing to the extreme minority (eg. Transgender people-men in women's bathrooms) while damning the majority. A failed philosophy for sure.

When you read highflyer's or Dave Davidson's posts above, you seem to really appreciate the feedback. I get a different message from each of their words. Again, it seems like you're reading those posts with blinders on, seeing only what you think validates your position.

Finally, I can help rest one issue for you. I'm not getting admonished for anything I've written here, I assure you. My line of replies and my choice of prose on this thread started very dry and ratcheted up from there to my current tone. And now I'm fully engaged. I will never sit back idly and watch someone take a big dump on something I love, and something that has provided so deeply for myself and others for close to (15) years.

Thanks for all the input, folks.
Personally, I like edgy thoughts. It creates conversation. Toss in some passion, and here we go.
I'll forego the passion and stick with facts.
Since the gist of this thread is about Pond Boss conferences, I'll start with that. Pond Boss I's mission was to begin to unite an industry. Our goal was to take an undefined, fledgling industry, bring people together and start relationships. We wanted pond pros to personally meet the vendors that many of them did business with, and to meet those they were yet to meet. We wanted vendors to get to know the niches of this industry, and the people that make things happen. We wanted to put landowners in front of experts, and for those landowners to become better stewards of their land and water. We had 36 speakers, about 25 vendors and just under 300 attendees. Academia was represented, as was some agency people, and the private sector. Part of our mission was to build bridges among these three "competitive" sectors, in that attempt to start unifying the industry. Pond Boss lost just over $10,000 on that first attempt. What we DIDN'T expect was the coming together of the Pond Boss family. Didn't think about the camaraderie, but that was, by far, the biggest take home point.
Pond Boss II had a similar goal, but to lose less money as we did our part to unify the industry. We had the most attendance, to this day, of just more than 300 people.
Pond Boss III, IV, and V were held at Big Cedar, with more of a focus to share knowledge and have plenty of social time. Those of you who attended any of those know just how cool that venue is and how much free time there was. My favorite part was the Buzzard Bar, where ideas flowed faster than the adult beverages and a local skunk family chased patrons and hand outs.
We lost money.
Pond Boss VI, in Rockwall, was our next attempt. We broke even on that one. But, we saw the Pond Boss family in full force, doing what they do, gathering knowledge, spending time together, and building valuable relationships everyone can use today.
Pond Boss VII was put together with great effort. It's a huge undertaking with a significant financial commitment. For the record, it costs more than $100,000 to put on an event like that. Our decision has been to put together and hold a quality event. We did that. As far as cash flow, we didn't "lose" money this time...until we count the significant man hours put into it. That's how we lost money on this one.
Here's the bottom line about Pond Boss conferences. We are a business. We do attempt to make money. At the same time, we understand the value of the Pond Boss family, which includes this forum.
At this time, I personally have no desire to have another one. Too much effort and time to do it. A good part of that reasoning is outlined in this thread. People don't want to pay that much. I get that. I don't want to put on an event that isn't classy and full of information. I thought that changing up the program, bringing in lots of new ideas and new speakers and new vendors would be a draw, but it wasn't. Today's times suggest that anyone, at any time, can find out anything the want to know with a quick trip to the University of Google. Maybe so, maybe no. Maybe so, maybe know. But, with all the keyboard brilliance out there, in my heart, I know that we need these relationships to truly find out the facts, logic, and sense. I hear what Tony is saying about that. He knows what he knows and is happy with it. As far as the suggestion there is no paradigm shift, that's completely untrue. I'm immersed in it, and see it. Hobbyists have little reason to seek it.
As far as Pond Boss being a business, that's true and won't change. The conference lose money, and this forum loses money. We've had many vendor friends offer these thoughts, "Bob, we won't buy a banner ad because everyone there is a 'do-it-yourselfer." We haven't cracked the nut to make the forum profitable. But, the value of the forum, to our business, is the fair exchange of ideas, with the hope that forum members will help convince people to subscribe to the magazine. The magazine fuels the business. We don't sell subscriptions, all this fun stops and someone else gets to go pay to start a forum. As big as this forum is, the 24 hour, 365 day per year cost of hosting is pretty dang high. These fun and games cost money.
Further for the record, Pond Boss, Inc., still believes our mission is to help unify an industry, and do our best to do that as we work hard to produce a quality work with the magazine, with the biggest mission to help as many people as we can to be the best stewards of their land and water as we can. That's another reason for this forum. As far as what we do caters only to affluent people, I want to think about that. I did bristle when I read that, but in our pursuit of fairness, it deserves thought. For all of us who aren't affluent, here's how that really works. Affluent people don't tend to go to our conferences. Why should they? They can afford to hire any or all of the experts and vendors which grace pages of the magazine? Do they subscribe? Yes, they do. They understand the value of what fuels Pond Boss, and they want to see it continue. I laugh out loud when someone complains about the cost of a subscription. My perspective is this...$35 is less than most people spend on a Friday date night meal somewhere. To further influence that, I have had many, many people tell me things they've learned from the magazine, or the conferences saved them untold dollars and angst from mistakes the DIDN'T make. What's that worth?
Finally, the moderators I chose were selected for specific reasons. If you get moderated, and don't like it...too bad.
If you think you've been treated unfairly, take it to a pm and address it. If you still don't like it, bring it to me. I have supported members in the past and it caused us to lose a moderator years ago. I support our moderators as they are they guys on the ground, doing their parts to help guide this forum in the way I've directed it. Mike Otto and I own this thing and we'll continue to do what we think we need to do to keep it moving in a healthy way.
With these thoughts in mind, I want everyone participating or reading this thread to know that I'm mulling over these thoughts. Sometimes it takes me a few days to truly absorb it all.
If any of you take issue with the forum, its rules, this thread, or any other, feel free to stop participating. We'll miss you, just like some of the others who stopped. Life's too short to let something like this forum affect you. If I or the moderators think you need to be banned, we'll do it...just like the handful of others who've been banned.
Here's the bottom line. Support Pond Boss in ways you can. Don't degrade Pond Boss on this forum. Build the family here or go away. I want people's children to be able to read any given thread here and grow and learn from it. I want new people to feel welcome and invited. If you can't do that, go find another place. Our mission is to continue to help people become better stewards of their land and water, as simple as that. We are also a business which intends to make money to fuel all these fun vehicles the entire world has the opportunity to benefit.
Bob, thank you for your above post. To me, it seems to come from a quiet understanding of fairness, of strength, of caring about quality of life.

Thanks once again for considering the points raised in this thread, for communicating so clearly your position relative to our stewardship opportunities, and for all the work you've done.

Roger
Oh crap, Sunil is now fully engaged....

Sunil, I do admire the tenacity, arrogance, smugness, confidence, and self- righteousness that you display. I’m certain those same attributes served the likes of Nero, Napoleon, and General Custer, quite well. Right up until the day they didn’t

You need to read through the hunting thread again. I am a hunter myself, but I questioned the wisdom of removing the best genetics from a population, solely for the sake of pride or accomplishment. I guess I’m not the only one who sees only what he wishes,eh?

And just to further the record, I harbored no illusion about how this thing would shake out in the end. I figure that necessity trumps justice often enough to place my position as one precarious. Bob saying that things do not always favor a mod gives me a glimmer of hope, and I will pm him in a few hours time. Bob also mentioned that he wants the forum to be comfortable enough for children to read. I agree. It’s important for future adults to see how they should conduct themselves when inevitable disagreements arise.

Finally, you are correct in that ours is a majority rule based society, and I am in total agreement with this philosophy. I realize that it will not matter to you, but nonetheless you should know that I have received a handful of pm’s from other members offering support for my position. While still definitively a minority, it is still greater than one.... as much as you would like to make this about me alone, it isn’t.

Bob, I am taking your offer of personal communication to be a sincere one. Like you, I would like to mull it over for a spell. My hope is to communicate privately in a few hours. Until then, I am done responding to this thread.
Hope everybody is!!!!
Originally Posted By: Bob-O
Hope everybody is!!!!


Bob-O I am not fully engaged but my new girlfriend
has me at least thinking about it down the road.
Zep congrats on your almost engaged
Spark, when you comm with Lusk, consider your words below:

"I am a hunter myself, but I questioned the wisdom of removing the best genetics from a population, solely for the sake of pride or accomplishment."

You questioned the 'wisdom' of a huge amount of people here. You went further with the 'solely for the sake of pride or accomplishment." You co-opted any thought process or reasoning they might have had besides 'pride or accomplishment.' That's insulting and condescending. It also makes pride or accomplishment seem like a negative stimulus.

And when a discussion starts, you pound your position, past the point of 'conversational' banter. For context, we know that you have wit when you want.

The example above is related to peace and well-being on the forum. The rest of this thread is about NOT doing harm to the Pond Boss organization by making positions that don't support the Pond Boss organization seem like they are in any way acceptable.
ARROGANT? SMUG? SELF-RIGHTEOUS? Sprkie, I don't know if those lofty traits of character apply to Sunil but you've certainly described me and yourself very well.
Okay. I said I wouldn’t reply any further, but that made me laugh Dudley.. Felt good, thanks. grin
LOL Dudley! I think all of us share a little of those traits! smile

I do find this thread disheartening. IMO most of this could have been avoided with a little consideration and keeping all posts constructive. I see that as a "constructive" suggestion to both sides. FWIW One of the first rules I learned as a young engineer was to never walk into the boss's office and say, "We have a big problem." The correct approach..."We have a big problem and here is how we can fix it."

For some reason this reminds me of that old movie "Road House" where Patrick S. tells his bouncers, "Just be nice."

To be honest, I got totally lost on how transgenders and toilets fit into the PB conference discussion. Is that something Bob has in the works as a possible new attraction? grin
Lusk - good post for seeing both sides and posting a quality response.
Just so everyone knows, donations to the Pond Boss Forum range from $5.00 - $300.00+. All get credit in the Hall of Fame, and any request to donate anonymously is honored.

One person donated $1 once. I think it was all they could spare at the time, with a baby on the way. The person was very active on the forum.

Support this place.

In the latest issue, Lusk spends a short paragraph on the attendance numbers for the last PB Con.

In the next paragraph, he talks about what Pond Boss needs.

If you read the magazine, you know the answer.
OK, 'Subscriptions' was the answer for those of you in this newly revealed group who don't subscribe to the magazine.

Also, average donations are from $20.00 - $50.00 if you were wondering.
I want to thank everyone who kept me busy responding to texts and pm's yesterday afternoon and evening. If I didn't have a chance to respond personally, I'm sorry. Please know that I appreciate, and am humbled by, all your kind words.

Last night, Bob, in his usual kind, thoughtful, and gracious manner, invited me to communicate my thoughts directly with him. I did so, and after heeding the advice given to me by a good friend here whom I've never met, I slept on it. Now, I want to share a few thoughts with everyone as a group.

Some of you know, some may not, that I was self employed for a number of years. It was a small operation, with a heavy emphasis on small....a one man operation. And I made a decent living at it, paying the bills, supporting my family, running it my way, day-to-day.

And while I was generally satisfied, there was a part of me that wished for the type of operation that I read about in the trade mags...a fancy storefront, a showroom filled with shiny, new equipment, multiple personnel on the payroll, manufacturing reps taking me to lunch, a lounge for prospective buyers to wait comfortably in while my staff ran their credit... you know, the big leagues.

But there wasn't any of that. There was me. Bookkeeper, mechanic,office assistant, plumber, delivery guy, setup guy, answering all the phone calls, waiting on customers, loading and unloading equipment, looking up parts, you get the idea. Doing whatever, however, whenever, to keep the thing flying.

During my years spent here on the forum and my involvement with PB, I have heard many times of the need to support the forum, financially wise. It was said that the forum and the conferences, lost money. Now that in itself is bad enough, but what troubled me more was the fact that we kept doing it. My experience with my own business taught me that if the patient was hemorrhaging that badly, the answer wouldn't be found in a continuous blood transfusion...long term survival meant plugging the leak. Making a change in my approach to the problem.

And that's what I didn't see happening here. I thought the PB organization was in trouble, financial wise, and yet nothing was changing. I struggled with the idea of continuing the transfusion without first sewing the leak shut. It seemed like a wasted effort.

And then I read Bob's post from last night, and I immediately felt better. He recognizes the need for some type of change. Maybe the new course isn't fully charted yet, but just knowing that it's under consideration puts me at ease. Does this mean that I'm ready to re-subscribe? No. i can't stand walking by something that I've paid for, but haven't shot, listened too, read, played with, whatever. That waste of resources on all sides infuriates me. And let's be honest...my view of the pond/fish world is extremely narrow....if it doesn't have lepomis in the title, I'm just not that interested. if PB wants to go monthly with a mag devoted to bluegills, complete with centerfold, I'm all in. Doesn't sound like a good business model to me, however.

But I am totally up for continuing to pay for someone else's subscription, who for whatever reason does not or cannot take the mag. Guess there's no reason to remain anonymous now.

Supporting the forum, financially? I'm still turning over my ideas concerning "usage" and "participation". I will say that I am more open to the idea now, than I was this time yesterday.

As far as my issues with a couple other members, I think highflyer said it best when he said this one is totally on me. I am content to leave things in Bob's hands and face the music for my role in this thing. My opinion in this regard has not changed, and while I could've done a better job at reigning myself in, the substance remains the same. How, or even if we move past this is yet to be decided.
Sparky, I doubt that there will be repercussions for your philosophy or argumentative style. For want of a better analogy, much like a malfunctioning engine light on Highflyer's instrument panel, you keep most of us performing at a somewhat higher level. With politics, religion and sexuality banned, threads like this one add color to the forum as well as humor to the life of the fully engaged Sunil. Can you imagine a milquetoast forum revolving around Esshup's endless explanations?

I certainly agree that Bob is a great guy although not very busy. To remedy that, I suggest the we all pack up our campers with kids, friends, inlaws and pets to all spend the summer at his place to bask in his and the Princess's warmth and hospitality.

At the risk of being grouped with the greats of poetry while hoping that it discourages you from taking yourself too seriously, I will share one of my better efforts with you:

A busy mechanic named Sparky,
Wrote posts that are full of malarkey.
While his diction is good,
He is best understood,
By those who are fluent in Snarky.

Hope this helps you out of that purple funk.
Dudley, Please forgive me for not knowing just what occupation you answer(answered?) too each morning, but may I suggest that if it differs in any fashion from “poet”, that you stay with it a tad longer? grin laugh smile. Best effort? Hoo boy.

On the other hand, I am totally in for adding FES to the list of acronyms.
I guess I am a addict for keeping on reading this thread. Kind of like slowing down to look at a car wreck but enough is enough guys. Can we all play nice? My goodness!!
Flame, I’m laughing, not being serious. That’s what the grinning, smiling, laughing characters were intended to convey. I have no problem with Dudley’s post, or with laughing at myself.
It doesn't exactly conjure up visions of the shores of the Gitche Gumee and Nokomis but it's in the ballpark.
Thanks for that thoughtful reply Bob Lusk.

Thank you for sharing some of the figures and information about putting on conferences. Many people never have the occasion to ever consider those costs or what putting on a conference involves. Sharing some of that information helps put in perspective the challenges involved.

Thank you for being frank and open.

I almost did not return to this thread because it was devolving into something that was becoming less than pleasant to read. But reading your post made me glad I did.

Ok Bob I recall you saying one time that you see weird every day. Well I have something that I consider weird about my participation. But I want to share it with you just as another "data point" to your business. The forum to me is the main reason I am around. I subscribe to the magazine and will continue to do so, even though I am sometimes a month or two behind reading them. I am on the forum nearly every day, but I do not always get around to reading the magazine. I can't even explain why. It is just weird. But I figure I get enough benefit and enjoyment out of the forum that I donate annually to the forum and also subscribe to the magazine in support of the usage I get out of the forum. I suppose I could just donate to the forum and quit subscribing, but I feel both are needed to support what has become a very enjoyable one of my hobbies. I don't know if there is any useful information in my admission of how lazy I am concerning the magazine, but maybe it just shows that there are different strokes for different folks.

At any rate, thank you and Otto (as well as the moderators) for your perseverance in something you believe in. I enjoy it.
I truly enjoyed what parts of the conference I actually attended. I am far from affluent, yet for me, it was a chance to reconnect with my eldest daughter who lived very close to La Toretta.

I hate to possibly re-open the perceived wounds that may have been inflicted in this thread, yet I feel compelled to say a couple things.

First, the epithets laid on Sunil are the exact opposite traits I personally know he possesses. Sparky, I love our debates we have had, and though at times we could get personal, we tried hard to keep it light-hearted on very touchy topics, and we communicated privately in rough discussions out of what I felt is a genuine respect for one another...

Sparky, Tony, I feel you will consider and respect my following thoughts....This forum, nor the conferences, are in any way geared toward the "affluent"! If you feel they are, perhaps you should delve into your personal reasons for those beliefs, rather than insist everyone adhere to your belief? If you have "all the knowledge" you will ever need for your pond, wonderful, yet I have always thought of you as an intelligent man, so please understand when I ask you how in the world you accomplished knowing all you'll ever need to know when you are clueless as to what you do not know??? It is factually impossible for you to know any value your ROI may or may not have brought you by attending any or all conferences??? You may very well be right that you'd gain nothing of value to yourself at a conference, or here on the forum...One may make it a self-fulfilling failure to gain knowledge also, if they maintain a closed mind and anticipate nothing but the worst, whereas an open mind will see and consider something that can be used or modified somehow to reach, or even discover, a new goal....

I just read this entire thread and was very disappointed in how it devolved, yet am glad it has not been locked....


My last thought is....From a solitary viewpoint, you can look closely for something good in everything, you can look closely for the bad in everything, and both views will be deluded and distorted....Taking a look at everything again, from another angle or viewoint, and you will see it all entirely differently
At the conference I went to, there were a few that you could put in the affluent catagory, but the vast majority were people of average means. THey were wanting to make sure they get it right the first time because it cost so much, and $ is a big deal for them.
First of all this post is not meant to be a dig at Tony.But hopefully some good will come from all of this.I still have a lot to learn.I did buy the book Just Add Water and was planning to subscribe to Pond Boss magazine when my pond ever or if filled up lol,to help support the forum.But after reading all of this and learning more of what it takes to keep things going,I went ahead and subscribed last night and donated a few bucks while I was at.
Originally Posted By: Bobbss
after reading all of this and learning more of what it takes to keep things going,I went ahead and subscribed last night and donated a few bucks while I was at.


Bobbss that's cool....thank you for supporting our great community with your hard earned dollars.

It is really interesting that this thread has actually directly caused new magazine subscriptions, re-renewals of magazine subscriptions, and more donations to be made to this family we call Pond Boss. That truly is the silver lining to this thread! GREATNESS!
Bob,
Your recent post outlining what PondBoss was in the past and what it is now is very informative. Could you consider unlocking that thread to allow for discussion and comments? Your post has been on a lot of people's minds and there may still be questions, comments, or suggestions that come to mind that would fit well under your well written post.

Thanks
CC
I won't unlock my blog, but did create a new thread with it.
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