Petco has a sale starting in a few days on select models for a buck a gallon.

I picked up (4) of the 40G last time. Built quite sturdy as aquariums go. I'll probably pick up a couple more.

Just thought I would pass this along, if anyone is interested.

Good info. If ya don't mind sayin, what did the 40s go for last yr? Do the accessories also go on sale?

40G's were $40.00 last time, same as this time.
Accessories are on sale and you can get decent discount coupons via email.

Not plugging this place, but you can save a buck or two.

JKB,

Please let us know when the sale starts.

Bill, Dec 27th, and thru January 23.

Did the link above work? It was emailed to me and I opened it up from email then to browser to post it.

Link should work, It does here, but that could be an it all depends

I don't see a link

The blue underlined one in the OP that says Aquariums.

Dang! Got it. Thanks Man!

It's a preview sale, so it's not advertised yet.

Thanks for the info. Would like to pick up a 100 gallon tank to hatch my own tilapia instead of buying them. The last ones I had Fed Exed got really stressed and I lost half of them.

Cecil, would they have a large enough one for you to put in the wall like you had planned?

I think a bow front aquarium placed like that would be neat!

The link worked for me, up to 55 gallons.

Yeah I could put one in my showroom wall just above my counter to dispay large bluegills and yellow perch.. All the DIY stuff associated with it would be hidden behind it.

A tilapia hatching tank would go in the back room.

I would like to put one in my office with maybe some BG.

After 27 month's at 2 other locations, I finally move back to my office next Monday. Went in there yesterday and it's full of boxes, which I'll probably have to move.

Yep, it can get boring sitting behind a desk, so maybe watching fish do fish things might alleviate some of that. Could be a nice conversation piece.

JKB -- thanks for that info. I see that the sale goes well into January. Once the holiday rush is over, I'm hoping they still have some in stock.

Several years ago I set my son and grand-kids up with an aquaponics tank made from a 400 gallon IBC container. It has been successful beyond imagination for things like tomatoes, peppers, spinach, lettuce, etc. The fish just have never thrived the way I had hoped, and that has included talipia, bluegill, fatheads, etc. The only ones that did reasonably well have been green sunfish -- until this season.

This year, about a week before my wife and I went on a 3-week vacation, I gave them a number of very healthy 3-5 inch green sunfish, and a bunch of rosie-red minnows for the tank. Something went wrong, and they all died. Since we were gone, my son and youngest granddaughter went to the local pet store and got some $0.09 goldfish. The 1-inch goldfish thrived. The garden thrived.

When it came time to shut the system down in October, my son called and asked what he should do with the goldfish. I said flush them down the toilet into the septic tank. He said they probably wound't fit down the toilet! Plus, he said they were really beautiful, and then my granddaughter appealed to me!

I actually took the backhoe and dug a double-S shaped pond, that is about 4-foot wide, 30 feet long, and about 4 feet deep in most places. But, when they brought them to the farm, I decided I couldn't even put them in their wonderful new pond. They were too pretty, and too friendly. Nobody even named them, which has been a rule that goes back at least to my grandfather's farm so that things like this aren't supposed to happen.

So, now I've got four overly friendly goldfish living in my basement. They get real excited when they see me. They are taking up most of the surface of my butchering bench. They range from 5-1/2 inches to almost 7 inches. I have two each, in two separate 5 gallon aquariums.







I guess a 55 gallon tank is in their future and mine.

As an aside, they don't like ESSHUP's feed. They are kind of OK with Lil' Strike, but they go crazy for TetraFin Goldfish Flakes, which is $7.95 for 2.2 oz. That works out to nearly $60 a pound when tax is included!

PETS!!!

Merry Christmas to all, and may your goldfish thrive in the new year!

Koi food crunched up a little might be a cheaper option.

Merry Christmas to you, family and goldfish!

Ken,

Let them go hungry and they will eat whatever you give them.

I removed the link from above.

Reason is, I did not notice at first, but if you scrolled down to the bottom, it had one of my email addresses and several active links where someone could manipulate my account.

It was a web view of an email I got. Guess I won't do that again.

When they post the sale, I'll put that up.

Are these sales online or do you usually need to got to the store?

I will make the petco store this week and will be looking for a larger tank along with heaters and filters and etc. Maybe look into some place to grow out some Tp for winter or just an aquarium for viewing. Thanks for posting about the store sale.

tracy

Anyone ever make their own tank? The poly-carbonate is easy to get by the sheet and easy to mill with wood working equipment like saws and routers.

Basically make a sealed box sealed lid then cut in the openings you need.

Making a curved one might be a challenge.

Pretty sure the aquarium tanks are store pickup only.

From what the manager at the Muskegon store told me last time is every store gets so many tanks. This is a special purchase deal with Aqueon , and appears they have these sales twice a year. I mentioned to the manager that Petsmart had the same sale. He said those *&%^(*&)*^, always copy what we do.

Went by Petco today and the sale was on. Thanks again for the heads up Phil! One thing I did not expect was that the tanks are not in any kind of packing container so, if anybody is thinking about picking some up, make sure you are prepared to transport glass aquariums.

Yeah Bill, when I got some last July, that's the first thing I thought. Not crated! Tempered glass tho.

This is how they come. These are the 40G tanks.


I also called the local store today and they said this may not be advertised on their website.

At least you had cardboard. My store removed that as well.

While I was there I saw a 29 gallon kit from tetra. Tank, LED top, heater, filter, pump, thermometer....for 129, I think I will watch for those to go on sale and pick one up as well.

I am itching to build a filter for an aquarium using K1 media, or equivalent, but need a source for small quantities. I only want a gallon or two.

PM me your address and I'll send you some of the stuff I have. Has 1.6 times the active surface area over K1, so you don't need as much. Remember the crapload of stuff I got?, I think I can spare some.

Thanks! I will PM you my address with the agreement you PM me back your's with cost of the media and shipping so I can shoot you a check to cover. I know that stuff is not cheap!

Aquarium purchase from Petsmart. I am not to sure I am petsmart when it comes to raising fish in a glass container but never the less, I am on my way. After comparison shopping with Petco, I made a 29 gal purchase. I made an aquarium purchase from Petco about a month ago with 2-10 gal aquariums. A month ago I used a cast net to acquire some Tilapia from my pond and transferred 5 fish to the 2 aquariums. And yesterday I caught another 5 from the pond. I lost 3 of the first five due to my not changing out the water often enough in the 2 aquariums, so I am starting over so to speak. And with the colder weather upon us, I may not have the opportunity to catch any more Tp as the water will be cooling down soon in the pond. I can't believe the Tp are still thriving in the pond in late Dec, early January. I need to keep these aquarium Tp alive. My goal is to learn what it takes to raise Tp indoors for the winter. How to get reproduction through spawning the fish and anything else I might learn that would be useful in pond mgt. Any recommendations here from you guys would be helpful. My losing 3 out of 5 fish shows how I am not to petsmart.

Thanks
Tracy

Hey Tracy,

What are you using for filtration in the tanks?

Growing fish in a AQ can be touchy. The bigger they tank you will find will be more stable once you get it stable. What most folks don't realize if you should not just fill a tank up and throw expensive fish in it right away. It don't work that way. Get a few minnows or shiners first makes sure your PH, and Nitrates and water temp is stable and let the AQ filter for a while. Lets say 2 weeks with the shiners. Once things seem stable then put a fish in there or 2 and see who they do. If TP are your main goal then find out everything you need to know about the type of water TP like best and the temp! Take your time!

Every 2 to 3 weeks clean about 25 percent of your water. You can buy a cheep plastic suction hose to help clean the gravel and yet it will leave the gravel behind and not suck it up. Put AQ in a spot where people don't pass by it constantly and scare fish. Remember we look HUGH to them !! Check your water at first ever few days to make sure it's stabilizing. Then maybe once a week or right after you clean it to make sure PH and temps are correct.

Having an AQ is not so simple right away, there is a learning curve just like managing a pond. Have fun with it and remember it's all one big experiment!!

RC

Yep always just added some neon tetras and a pleko and let her go for a few months.

I'm going to experiment with a fluidized bed filter using the media JKB is sending me. I figure on using either rosey reds or goldfish as the guinea pigs. If the gold fish get to large I figure I can always bucket stock them into Bob O's pond while he's in Florida!

Cecil, if you want to save some Tilapia fry, just put a 1/8" mess net in whatever you are raising your adults in. The fry will stay within the safety of the net.

I just picked up some different boxes today, so I'll send it out tomorrow when I go to the butcher shop for lunch tomorrow. They have some amazing brisket and awesome smoked red skin tater salad. The green beans swimming in butter with copious amounts of bacon ain't bad either. Hey, the doc said my cholesterol is darn near perfect, so live it up!

I'll print you out a PDF I have with some application info that might help. One thing they don't mention in the PDF is the specific gravity is 0.96.

It will be interesting to see what you come up with.

I started about 2.5 cubic feet in the basement last week. I used ammonia that Cecil mentioned (thanks!!), added salt and let it cook to get the temp up a bit, then inoculated with bugs (bacteria) yesterday. They should take to the media to speed things up a bit. If it works, I'll post the methodology I used.

Oh yeah, 1st full day back in my office today, after 27 months. Looking at 2 huge bookshelf's, mostly outdated material. Asked the boss why the heck we still have this stuff? That's reference material for you. Said most of it is junk like a 1991 fluid power directory, and most of those companies have been bought and sold, maybe even a couple times over. I said, I could put a nice aquarium or two there. He said sort thru it and get a couple guy's to fill the dumpster. Yey! Office makeover time!

Seriously, when I had my shop and all this stuff became available in PDF format, I filled the dumpster years ago.

Awesome and again thanks!

....Feel free to throw in a brisket sandwich and some of that tater salad in the shipment!

That brisket will have to wait till you are on site

You got a deal and I'm buying!

I do appreciate your hearty investment in chinchilla lined cod pieces!

I'm gonna attempt the charter thing again this year. It sucked bad last year with conditions, but being on the lake as many times as I have been, and have only been out there piloting a charter boat, my personal opinion is we could have easily gone out in the size of boats I selected, at least 2 of the 4 dates we were up. That ticked me off, but it's their boat.

July 7th was rough when everyone was up here, but a few boats did go out and scored pretty good. When esshup and Matt left the shop, I stopped at a bait and tackle shop around the corner. The Captain of Thunderduck walked in. They scored, and had fun. He said most people won't go out in a mess like that, but we have fun.

See what happens this coming year.

Is that what I invested in? I thought it had something to do with Enchiladas with corn pieces. Sheesh, I should read these investments closer.

Your account was manipulated, and then some. However, it's all for your own fiscal good.

Bill, I purchased these 3 Aquariums as kits, they came with water pumps and carbon filters with media inside the filters along with the larger tank that has a bio wheel and heaters were also in the kits. Ha I am lost for the most part, never had an aquarium before. I started with 5 small Tp from the pond, added them to the 2-10 gal tanks. Had to separate one from a larger male, they were biting the tail of the other fish, causing bleeding. So I kept them for about 3 wks or so and lost 3 of them due to no change out in the water. I am learning the hard way. Added aeration yesterday to all 3 tanks. Will due water additions as tanks dictate. I now have 7 fish in the two smaller tanks and I am conditioning the water in the 29 gal tank. Plans are to pair up some in the 3 tanks.

Tracy

TGW1- are you sure its media? The stuff that is in the filter bags where the water goes thru it(generally can't see it) is just carbon(?) and does nothing more than make the water clear. Doesn't help with ammonia like real media. At least that's the way I understand it.

My personal experience is don't be to much of a clean freak when it comes to the tilapia. The glass sides will hold some of the good "bugs". At most, I will wipe clean the glass in half the tank at a time.

CECIL- I know most say a 55 Gal or bigger for tilapia breeding, but I don't have that kind of room. I have been experimenting with a 29 gal tank and have had good luck for the past two years. I filled Bob-O in on it a little bit, maybe he spoke of it to you.

FNC, I asked the fish person @ Petsmart about the media and he explained that media was in the bio wheel also said it was in the filter, but I don't think these reps are expert but he said his aquarium was set up this way. I don't know ??

Tracy

TRACY
When I had my fish store years ago I would use a large power filter and would use 3" foam for the media... When it got real dirty I would clean it out under running water- no soap- cause that would kill the good bacteria in the sponge. The water would be clear and had no problems. I raised African cichlids in a 200 gal. The foam worked better than the pads that cost a fortune

PM me if YA got any questions

So far, so good with my big fat gold fish (pictures posted above, of 5-7 inch goldfish). I don't have a real filter in either tank.

With hardy fish (like carp, green sunfish, river chubs, etc.,) I've had very good success without actual filters and pumps. I've been doing this for years.

Since early October I have had two 10 gallon tanks running, each with two big goldfish -- that's a whole 'nother story! (Grandkids and aquaponics.)

In using this method a number of times over the years with "trash fish". I've never bothered to take any measurements, so I have no idea of ammonia levels, pH, D.O., etc. These are fish that just have sentimental value to grandparents, grandkids, etc., or they are my baitfish. If they perish, they perish!

So, please don't take this as the way to grow and keep fish alive. But, it is a simple and inexpensive method of keeping rough fish.

I buy pea gravel, and other road gravel, rip-rap, etc., in 10-20 ton quantities at a time. So I always have gravel available. All I do is go out to the pile of river pea gravel near the barn, and grab a bucketful that goes into the bottom of an aquarium about 1 inch deep.

For the 10 gallon tanks I have some inexpensive Wally-World air-stones that stretch nearly edge-to-edge lengthwise in the aquariums. They are placed at the very bottom of the tanks where they are nearly covered with gravel. For these tanks I have a dual output $10-$15 dollar air pump rated for a 50 gallon tank.

I feed the fish twice a day. I use a "siphon vacuum cleaner" made for aquariums to clean the gravel about once a week. These cost about $5-10 in any aquarium type fish supply department. If I see algae on the insides of the aquariums I wipe it off with a paper towel before refilling the tanks. The cleaning takes about about 1/3 of the aquarium water. The water taken from the pea gravel can actually be pretty nasty. Because I don't have any heaters in the tanks, I'm able to just refill the tanks with well water. The water that comes out of my taps is usually within a few degrees of the aquarium water that is here in the basement.

Enough. I still plan to go get some larger tanks next week.

My mom use to say something like that whenever Lima Beans or Brussels Sprouts were served for dinner.

I can tolerate the Sprouts now, but bacon can't fix those Lima Beans.

As long as it's for my good, I guess I'm OK with it. Carry on...

Those bio-wheels work pretty good. Once those kick in, you would be shocked at how many fish they will support feeding moderately.

I have (2) Marineland 350's and one 400. I just started the two 350's with the other media last week, killing two birds with one stone.

I wonder if the nearly covering the air stones in the pea gravel has set up a bio filter of sorts with bacteria collecting on the gravel....

Under gravel filters work that way although they usually have small activated charcoal pods on the out flow tubes.

Bill, I sent out the media today USPS Priority Mail in a large Flat Rate box. About 3.4 gallons is what it came to. You should see it this Saturday. About payment, just push it forward to someone else in the future.

Yep, that's my thought on it too. I use sponge filters a lot. Look them up. I figure if you are pumping air into the tank, you might as well yield all you can from that by adding a filter to it. About as cheap a system as you can get. I started adding a sponge to some of the regular aquarium systems (like the what Phil mentions the 350 ) so the fry don't get sucked up. I swear that doubles the bio filtration abilities. They are a lot easier to clean than a gravel floor.
But yes, the gravel with air in Catmandoo setup seems like a "coarser" version of a sponge as a biofilter.

I still believe the charcoal has nothing to do with Biofiltration. I was told by a very knowledgeable aquarium guy that all it does is make you water gin clear. People don't want dirty looking water.

Dang man! Not even sure how to reply but that stuff is expensive. I will think of something. Yer not "off the hook!"

Not really that expensive at all, but hope you are not confused with the ceramic media that will cost the price of your first born.

Thanks guys for the info, Pat, u speak of sponge's. So r we talking the type one might use for cleaning up ? And can I just add a cut out piece of sponge and add it to the pump on the two smaller 10 gal tanks ? I am now thinking I can add a cut out piece of sponge and add it to the small bowl area in the circulating pump, may not even work but where to add a sponge? And I have no gravel, I do not see where gravel is added to tanks when raising Tp ?

Tracy

Tracy
I used 3" foam that you would buy for pillows and such, cut it a little larger than the filter tank. I had power outside filters that would move a lot of water per hour in the 200 gal tank.they worked great on cichlids cause they do better when crowded

All cichlids like to dig in gravel for spawning

Gravel in an aquarium used for tilapia is a major PITA!!! I leave it out and opt for structure that creates a small nesting area a male can defend from...

Some where not too long ago, I swear I saw a post, I think by Cecil, about cycling new media with ammonia and how much to use but I can't find it now.

Cecil, or anybody else, that can remember that post and can regurgitate the info here would be appreciated.

Ammonia at 4 PPM to cycle new media. It is on another thread.

Thanks Brian,

Is there a measurement like 1 tsp per gallon or something like that? I seem to recall you can just use regular ammonia (no additives) from the hardware store, correct?

Cecil will have to tell you which ammonia to use (I forget), and PPM is just math. How many liters in your system will make it very easy to get to PPM. Simply put, 1 ml per 1000 liters is 1PPM. If you know your liters, you know your ml to add to get it right.

Does that help?

Yep. I just thought he might have given a simple measurement per gallon. A 10 gallon tank gets .15 ml to bring ammonia to 4 ppm. We are talking an eye dropper to add the ammonia.

Sounds about right to me for fishless cycling. And one needs to make sure the ammonia is non-sudzing (if you shake the bottle it should not foam). If it foams that means it has detergent added to it, which is detrimental to the bacteria.

I got mine at Ace hardware.

That said, if you have good filtration and no gravel to collect it and make a mess, pureed fish food is even better than the raw ammonia. As it breaks down it will produce ammonia, which is as close as you will get to your situation when you have fish. It seems to get your tank cycled quicker too. And I don't get small spikes initially of ammonia and nitrites after I add all my fish. If you use raw ammonia it works, but the bacteria seems have a brief hiccup vs.using the fish food probably due to the change in the ammonia source.

You really need to purchase a Master API test kit to monitor you ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate levels to determine when your tank is cycled and safe to add fish. Under $20.00 from Ebay or Amazon. Some pet stores have them.

Don't forget to keep your bacteria chamber dark and the water temp in the optimum range for the bacteria to multiply.

Btw, here is a good read on nitrifying bacteria. My experience agrees with 99 percent of what is said.

http://www.bioconlabs.com/nitribactfacts.html

Thanks for the link! Lots of good info there. I found the answer to a question I had on light.

Light

Nitrifying bacteria are photosensitive, especially to blue and ultraviolet light. After they have colonized a surface this light poses no problem. During the first 3 or 4 days many of the cells may be suspended in the water column. Specialized bulbs in reef aquaria that emit UV or near UV light should remain off during this time. Regular aquarium lighting has no appreciable negative effect.

What happens if you have about 600 ft2 of media in a tank, overdosed with water diluted ammonia, Add copious amounts of bugs that are enjoying Bob-O's temps on the beach.

See how it goes, but the SG is changing by the hour.

You thought watching paint dry was cool!

I read somewhere in an aquaculture publication that 20 mg/l or more of ammonia will severely limit nitrifying bacteria growth. I can try and find it if you want. The link I posted agrees with 99 percent of my personal experience, but you're right they were trying to sell a few products.

The PHD down the road tells me there is a lot more going on than just nitrosomonas and nitrobactors species. Cool eh?

I've never inocculated any of my systems with a commercal source. I let it show up on it's own as you know it's on our bodies, floor, walls, soil, plants, open air etc. It's not supposed to be able to survive in spore form, and it's aerobic, so I'm skeptical of how long it can keep in a bottle for sale.

Just know what works for me. Sure not an expert on this. Only one microbiology class in my RN program, but it was fascinating.

Funny about the paint drying comment: I was so excited when my nitrosomonas showed up signaled by testing positive for nitrites!

Anybody tried starting up a tank using mechanically filtered pond water? Any thoughts on why that would be a really good or really bad idea?

Bill, I started a few weeks back with 2-10 gal tanks and a few Tp. I used the pond water to fill the aquariums. I did it because I did not want to shock the fish (due to water temps) and the pond water is what I used. The problem with it was the filters were strained by the green water from the pond and with using aquarium lights the algae grew fast in the aquarium and that kept the water really to green. it caused problems for me, but being new to it all, I learned from that. I now use my well water and I diluted the water back in the aquariums. Everything seems to be better now. I no longer use the lights on the aquariums except when I want to take a look see, and after I turn them off.

Tracy

Allegedly one of the downsides to using pond water is the possible introduction of parasites. Sometimes parasites can go bonkers in a small environment especially if the fish are initially stressed. That said, when I bring in my YOY perch and bluegill for the winter it's hard not to bring in some pondwater. Never had any issues except I did bring in snails with them once. They multiplied like crazy in the moving biofilter. Were hatching and living in the spaces between the media. It amazed me they didn't mind taking a ride up and down hundreds of times a day! LOL

I did move all the media to one the high schools and had about a pound of them in the bottom of the moving bed tank and some on the sides! Didn't seem to hurt the fish any, and I never saw any in the tank. No doubt they were snapped up as soon as they appeared in the tank.

My concern was they could have been parasite vectors but never had any issues with the bluegill and yellow perch. Some experienced aquaculturists told me not to worry and they may have been beneficial eating up dead bacteria and waste material.

Once I moved the media and the system was unused, I did sterilize everthing with potassium permanganate. No more snails in that system as it will get all new media.

Thanks for the input guys.

Tracy,

What brand 10 gallon kits did you buy? Can you tell me what came with them and whether you like them or not?

Bill, I have trouble remembering names when I am not interested with name brands. But I like the one that has a Bio wheel. It grows bacteria on media. I think it is Marineland, I bought that one last of the three I now have. I like it best. I have them at the farm house and not here with me. The Tp seem to be doing well, but it's early in the scheme of things. it would be nice if they started making babies, or maybe not, I might have to come up with additional housing

Tracy

Well, ammonia is down to the 2-3 mark after being clearly 8+ after an oops. I added a total of 8oz of API Quick Start, and that seems to work. They do make all kinds of bacteria that they can make go dormant for storage, but not sure if it's the case here. I had some good stuff for my camper that worked well.

I've tried all three disc diffusers, the fine, medium and coarse, and the coarse produce much more movement.

Those cheap linear pumps I got actually work quite nice as far as pumping air, but they are obnoxiously loud. With the coarse diffusers, it was the worst. Seem to need more back pressure on the output, or restrict the input to get them a bit quieter. I put the fine diffusers back in AND restricted the input, and that it more of a tolerable hum, I'm gonna have to get something different.

The big problem with the noise is it pulses too rough, and that goes thru your plumbing. If I hold the PVC assembly down on the bottom of the aquarium tank, it just rattles and bounces like crazy even tho there is a flexible hose between the compressor and PVC assembly. The compressor itself is sitting on a piece of sponge foam that's about 2" or so thick, so it's all going thru the air line. The air hose is 10' long and loosely coiled up, and if that hose touches the table, it rattles and bounces.

This is actually one of the strangest things I've seen in a while. I've built vibratory bowl feeders that were quieter than this!

Yeah I have one of those 20 lpm's I never use you can have! LOL The bluewaters barely hum.

I got one of the 60's and one of the 110's. Son of a [(*%^&#)], those things are loud!!

If I cant figure out how to quiet them down, I'll have some free ones to anyone interested, but they do pump air. Too loud to be inside a house tho, but would probably work outside in an enclosure tho.

Bill, you spill any of that media on the floor?

Every time I turn around I find something, and never spilled any!

Good to know Phil. It had me curious as to what sound level it is. Different opinions from different folks!!!!

If you put it outside, would the cold air cool the water down?

I can see one of these in your future......

http://www.omega.com/googlebase/product.html?pn=HHSL402SD&gclid=CMLBrYzoksoCFcIjgQod0OMAXw

LOL! Not yet. Still pulling stuff together for startup. Back in the 70s I always had multiple aquariums going. Man has technology changed! Some of my "go to" stuff from back then is hard to find or not even available now! Guess this old dog will be learning lots of new tricks! Almost choked when I saw what they want for plain aquarium gravel in pet stores now. It's more than the dang aquarium!

The plastic media multiplies and moves! I swear it does! Found some in my taxidermy shop one day.

Basement holds about 50°F during the winter, but these pumps warm up pretty good after a while so it might be a wash. Outside, I think if you built an insulated box, you would probably be OK with temps.

I gotta thank snrub for reminding me of something in a post he made on another thread. He didn't actually say this, but reminded me of something.

Back in the day's when I use to design and build custom bowl feeders. (PITA) I use to have a local transformer company whip me up these little choke coils in 1/2A, 1A and 2A sizes. Essentially an electromagnet that cycles at 60Hz. Pulls and releases 60 times per second.

There were mechanical methods I used to adjust the balance and rigidity of the rig, basically called tuning.

When it got to feed speed, I would use a variable output transformer and adjust the voltage to the coils which would adjust the magnetic pull force, and with the system rigidity, change the stroke of movement, but still cycled at 60Hz.

Now, snrub did mention back pressure in his post, and with the large bubble diffusers, there is virtually very little back pressure, but the large bubbles really mix it up.

From listening to this awful noise, and understanding how this stuff works, I might be able to change the force that these things are hammering at by dropping the applied voltage, lowering the pressure output and still get decent flow.

I should have a variable output transformer here, someplace, and also have a solid state gizmo from KB Electronics, but any motor rated dimmer switch with a speed pot should work.

Had a different brand - It grew legs

You gotta be careful, because they will jump in your pockets as well!

The journey begins....So I filled up a 10 gallon today using well water. Looks like real weak tea. Threw together an "old school" disposable filter I used in the 60s and 70s, as the old farm house had similar water, to clear up the water before moving forward. I don't want to use tap water as it is injected with hydrogen peroxide (kills almost all bacteria), run through an iron filter and then a water softener. This is going to be fun!

My question, the plan is to use RR for the first round. Think pulverized 36% grain based pond pellets will be ok for food? Any other recommendations?

Edit: I ordered a LED hood today for this brood tank so I can extend the photoperiod to 12 hours or so when I'm ready to attempt getting a spawn.

What's RR?

Sorry, RR is Rosy Red. Basically a pink FHM and the only fish available at my local pet stores I would be willing to throw in my puddle if I am lucky enough to tank raise some.

Bill D, u think those RR(Pink) will last long in your pond? I would think your YP would see them as a quick snack. What way did you go on the Aq? And a question for you or others, is it necessary to regulate lighting to get my Tp to spawn?

Tracy

I am sure they will disappear quickly. Just using the RR as a cheap way to "get my feet wet" in aquariums again and cycle the media. If I am lucky enough to raise some, they will be a cheap treat for the YP. I hope to move on to SFS, BNM, etc once I am happy with the setup.

I went with buying discreet components so far but may pick up a 20 gallon kit later. For the RR you need a 12 to 14 hour photoperiod to induce spawning.

Bill, where and how are you using the media? is it in a separate container from the Aq?

Tracy

Bill saw earlier in your thread that natural gravel war expensive... When I had my pet shop I used sand blasting sand. Wash it and your ready to go. I don't remember the size but think it was #3. It's a natural occurring gravel

Yes Bill, how do you plan to apply the media? The rest of us with the extruded media are barrel people

Speaking of extruded plastic.
I was told by one of our guy's that the extruder barrel blew up at one of our customers on a 1000HP compounding extruder. A guy in the plant got sprayed pretty severely with hot molten plastic. Upper body hit - head, face, neck, chest, arms and hands. He's going to be in the hospital for quite some time. They make reinforced plastic compounds on that line, usually run glass fiber and other vile reinforcing additives. High pressure and temps about 600°F. I was always afraid of that machine ever since they got it. The company in Chicago that built it, did a very poor job.

My first effort will be an in tank submersible filter (air powered). Current thought is a combo between sponge and media. Sponge for mechanical filtration followed by a media fluidized bed filter.

I was able to find some very inexpensive sponge filter cartridges today that have a pocket of activated charcoal "built in" that I thought were pretty cool and could remove some of the heavy metals, potentially making the fluidized bed media bio-filter more effective. I don't currently plan on replacing the charcoal in the sponges in the future but figure it can't hurt on startup. Once the charcoal is saturated, I will still have the sponge mechanical/bio filter followed by the fluidized bed media bio-filter.

Can somebody help me out on nitrate removal? How do you "barrel people" address it? Through frequent water changes? Anybody ever tried to incorporate a nitrate reductor with anaerobic bacteria? Another thing I'd like to use these tanks for is to propagate a few pond plants. Can the plants take out enough of the nitrate to see even a noticeable reduction in its level?

Guy I mentioned, say a prayer or two for him. The direct hit he took with hot gasses and molten plastic was in the face. In the face!!! Safety glasses saved his eyes, but he got burned really bad. He's in intensive care in the burn unit at a major hospital. Don't know what else to say.

Hope he makes it JKB. I hear of way too many accidents like this where equipment is under designed and/or appropriate safety measures are not in place in the interest of saving a buck. To be fair, I've also seen where employees have removed safety shields, etc. because they are "in the way" or don't follow safety protocols like lock out on electric when doing a "quick" repair or maintenance.

I'll share my thoughts about nitrates:

They're mostly benign for most species of fish unless they get really really high.

Three ways to reduce them, however.

1. Water changes. (as you mentioned)

2. Anerobic heterotrophic bacteria (as you mentioned)

3. Plants in the system to consume the nitrates

I prefer number 1 as the water changes have other advantages too, such as solids and nutrient removal.

Number 2 can be difficult to achieve small scale and can be tricky.

Number 3 is a great way to remove nitrates and at the same time produce an edible plant. It's the concept behind aquaponics.

That said, it doesn't have to be an edible plant for human consumption. I know of folks using duck weed in a separate flow through tank to reduce nitrates. Duckweed also consumes ammonia. They harvest it, dry it, and feed it to their tilapa. Don't understand it but it's supposed to have more nutrients in it when it dries.

I use a sponge filter on the intake end of my mag drive pumps that recieve water after it gets filtered by my clarification drum. I do clean them daily as if I don't they will clog too much and block flow.

Thanks for the inputs Cecil! I think I will go with a combination of your 1 and 3 options for nitrate removal. What level of nitrate would you consider to be a problem?

Thinking back, I did try a few aquarium products for nitrate reduction, but usually when they were getting high, TDS was also high, so did a partial water change and just used TDS as the marker. Can't remember the numbers tho, so I'll have to look them up.

Honestly don't know but there is literature out there. JKB?

I've had my color up there in the rich red (top of scale) for nitrates with my API Master test kit and had no issues with bluegill, tilapia, smallmouth bass, or yellow perch.

Trout in a coldwater RAS, according to some research I read, is a different story. Apparently they have issues with nitrates and do funky stuff like swimming sideways, deformaties etc.

Here it is:

https://www.ysi.com/ysi-blog/water-blogg...-than-you-think

Apparently the way to counteract a build up of nitrates in coldwater RAS is to do partial RAS. That is, a continual flow of cold fresh ground water to dilute nitrates and keep temps down and stabilize Ph. Not enough to be complete flow through like a trout raceway system but more than a typical RAS.

Called a couple bait shops near work this morning.

One place has "various" shiners for YP bait and 4"-6" White Suckers for NP bait.

Other place has Emerald Shiners for YP bait and large Golden Shiners for NP bait.

Gonna setup another 40G aquarium tonight and pick up a few dozen on the way home Monday.

Emerald Shiners and White Suckers do really well in tanks, but never had any luck with Golden Shiners, but they were small tho. It will be interesting to see what the "various" shiners are. Most do well in tanks.

Bio-Wheel 350's have been cycling from the start. I'll test ammonia later today, but gotta think it dropped a bit more.


Gonna put the noisy compressor in a cardboard box packed in foam insulation. Maybe that will quiet it down. Found my transformer, but it was one of the victims of a water leak and I would be afraid to hook it up without sending it to a motor shop for cleaning and testing. Don't need to get zapped again!

Bill,

Actually partial flow through can work as a way to dilute nitrates, and add fresh water for warmwater systems too. So that's option number 4.

Case in point: I have a garden hose and garden nozzle that I use that is connected to a shut off valve, waterline, and my well tanks for water changes and misc. uses. Over time it developed a kink near the end from bending it to fill the iron removal dual tank system, and scour out the clarifier tank after draining. This even though the hose was supposed to be kink resistant. Cut off the section of hose with the kink and tried to use two different hose mending kits to reattach the nozzle, and it was less than satisfactory -- even with a hose clamp.

Anyway, if the shutoff valve is left on the nozzle drips. Decided to use that to my advantage. Clamped it to the clarifer tank and let it drip into the tank. Over 24 hours it add a few inches to the system, but not enough to overflow it, as long as I did periodic flushes with the knife gate valve on the external standpipe on the floor. I do this anyway twice a day (about 4 gallons total per day).

No worries about cooling the water or iron buildup, as the flow is too low to be an issue. If I wanted to increase the flow by adjusting the nozzle, I could install an overflow to the floor drain.

JKB,

I hope you have better luck with noise suppression than I did with an upright Sears Craftsman compressor! LOL This thing is really loud!

Anyway I made a hole in the wall between my shop and shop bathroom for the airline, and put the compressor in the bathroom and closed the door.

I was very disappointed when It kicked on. Virtually no difference in sound!

Will spring for a "Silent Air" compressor one of these days, but they aren't cheap!

Cool set up. How many cubic feet? About 3 1/2?

There is info on water parameters by species, but you have to find it. With the net being like it is today...

Some of my books get down to the nitty gritty on water quality for various species, but they are in a box buried under a lot of stuff after this recent move. Gonna take some effort to dig them out.

I got this big Gaylord box from a friend and packed a lot of my stuff in it from the shop, planning to bring it home. A guy from work brought it to our new warehouse. Figured I would just go there and load it up on my truck with the fork lift. That ain't gonna happen anytime soon. This guy buried it way in a corner under a 30' row pile of junk. You have to move all that stuff to get to it and I had to climb all over this crap to even find it. Guess what he's doing next week

Cecil, only about 2.5 cubic feet of media in there, but that is only temporary to get the media started. It will be transferred to a barrel then I'll connect it to another barrel full of water and recirculate water thru the setup rig. That way I can mess with it and tweak where need be.

The other reason I started it in a glass aquarium is I wanted to see what is happening down below with the bubbles and media movement. It's quite interesting to see how the media reacts to different bubble sizes, so every couple days I'll run thru the different diffusers as the media gains weight to see what is happening.

I can tell you right now that a few large bubbles will bang this stuff around a heck of a lot more than a million small bubbles will at every stage so far. See how it goes as it get's heavier.

The hole saw's I need to install the Uni-Seals in the barrels are in the Gaylord box

Thanks. The API test kit literature recommends no higher than 40 ppm for fresh water aquarium and I found the same number a few places on line for "typical community" so I will go with something lower than that.

If you start getting heavy, you may want to check TDS as well. Silent killer that you will be scratching your head about for a long time.

Basically an indication of how worn out your water is.

Read up on it. BTW, TDS is Total Dissolved Solids.

Personally wouldn't be afraid of going higher with percids, centrarchids, and minnows. As you may know the centrarchids have a reasonsble resistance to nitrites, and I would think if they are resistant to nitrites, nitrates which are less harmful wouldn't be that big of an issue.

Thanks. Definitely good to know!

JKB,

Seeing any nitrites yet, or did you have some from the get go by adding bacteria?

Have not checked it yet, but will tonight.

1st API kit I got was only Ammonia, as they were out of everything else. I manned up and braved driving to the Lakeshore Mall where all the women driving around have cell phones stuck to their face, and it was a crappy day to drive around here with the snow and ice.

Anyway, I survived and picked up a Master Test Kit, so I'm moving forward.

Petco didn't have many Aquariums left. No 40G breeder tanks, which are nice. One 55G, which I thought about, but still had a bunch of 10G and 20G left. They also a number of smaller ones in the same display.

Possibly get the Emerald Shiners tomorrow. Quite the spunky rascals!

Based on reading the color charts correctly, and doing it twice. Ammonia is Zero and Nitrite is between 1-2 ppm.

Think the bugs may have worked?

Sounds like it. They definitely sped things up.

I'd add more ammonia once nitrites also drop to zero and see what happens?

As you know once both ammonia and nitrites drop to zero fairly quickly after adding more ammonia, you should be cycled and ready to add fish.

Are you seeing any nitrates yet?

My experience has been that even though the system is cycled, initially the ammonia and nitrites might tick up a little after you add fish until you have a mature stable large population nitrosomonas and nitrobactor bacteria.

There's lot to be said for a colony of bacteria that have been around for a while. I no longer start new ones for the schools partially for that reason. I bring live colonies on the media.

That's the plan, Cecil.
Once the Nitrite's hit Zero, I'll dose it again with ammonia and roughly time it to when things hit Zero again.

I'll test everything again tonight, including Nitrates.

Seems to be working tho.

Zero Ammonia, about 1 for Nitrite and 5 for Nitrate last night. Test it again in a couple hours.

Carefully dosing again to 4ppm, but this ammonia is diluted pretty good so I'm taking my time.

With the ammonia I have, it takes about 30ml (2 tablespoons, or 1 liquid oz) to get the 40G tank up to 4ppm. It's diluted pretty good.

The ammonia drops pretty quick, and I'll check it before I leave tomorrow, and suspect it might be gone by now.

On my way back I'm gonna stop at Big R in Indiana, probably Elkhart and pick up one or two of these: 300G Tank

It would be nice to get the 500G round tank, but two problems. 1) It would hang off the side of my truck too far, but I could double check down there. 2) Can't get it into the basement, unless I demolished one wall on the staircase, then rebuild it. Too much work!!

Just give Gibbs a call on NCIS for advice. He routinely removes large boats from his basement with no demo.

Have a good trip man! Be safe!

Thanks, see how it goes.

Had to look that up, but I don't watch TV, so still clueless.

The guy builds boats in hs basement and somehow gets them out when they are completed. It's a mystery!

I saw a boat in someones front yard on the way down that looked like it was coming out of the ground. Some art thing.

Question.

Before I left, I bumped the ammonia back up to 4ppm.

I was only supposed to be gone for 3 day's, maximum, but I ran into a whole lot of problems with the power quality in this factory...

Anyway, it's gonna be at least 7 days now.

How long can bugs live without food?

Not sure what others will say but I say they will be fine. Worst case scenario is it may take you just a little longer to become fully cycled.

Lack of water, too cold of water, and lack of oxygen are the real showstoppers.

Finally got back. I'll check things in a bit.

I stopped at Big R in Rochester, IN a few hours ago and picked up two of the 300G tanks.

Last night I figured out a way to haul the 500G tanks back in my truck. When I got there, the 500G tanks wire upright and half full of ice. Guess I'll do that at a later date.

So did the bugs survive?

As wondering the same thing. But I think I know the answer.

The answer is it stalled on the Nitrite side because the compressor was making a bunch of noise due to the close proximity of the PVC pipe close to the glass. My Dad thought something was going on downstairs while I was gone and had my brother unplug the compressor, but I still had another one going with two 12" air stones kicking out some bubbles, but not mixing the media proper.

Hey, just gotta go from there!

Sorry to hear that man.

You seem to have built up quite a supply of different sized tanks, etc. Did you post somewhere what your ultimate plan is for all the efforts?

Mainly just messing around right now. I'm gonna sell 3 of the other tanks I have.

You ever thought about raising some grass shrimp in one or two of those big tanks? I know a whole bunch of guys that would line up as customers!

Probably illegal here, but...

Well Bill, any updates?

Phil,

Things are slowly coming together. The hood for the 20 gallon came yesterday. Still waiting on various small stuff to show up. Seems a lot of the stuff on Amazon for aquariums comes out of China and takes forever to arrive.

I played around some with the media in submerged filters using the DIY concept I saw on Youtube. Found out quickly that suction cups don't reliably suck in an aquarium and are a PITA! Working on something that should be much more stable. The RRs in the 10 are doing well but are small and it will be a good while before I can start thinking about getting them to spawn. Seriously considering putting some scuds in the 20 while I wait.

How is your setup coming?

Yep, suction cups, well, suck! I just hang stuff over the side and call it good.

Picked up a couple 300G tanks while in Indiana.





Got to figure out how to do the drain on these, but the inside is not obstructed like a lot of others.

I can get these in the basement, so that's what I'll be killing some fish in

Nice Man! Those would be a lot of fun to play with as micro forage ponds.

After I showed the pics to esshup, he said those are the exact same ones he has as mini ponds by the house. They are quite reasonable in price. Still would like to get a couple of the 500G round tanks they have. I can use the stake truck from work to go get them.

Who is selling the 500 gallon round tanks and how much are they getting for them if you don't mind me asking?

My apologies if you already covered that in the thread.

Big R chain in IN and IL. 500G Tank

They are structural foam just like the Rubbermaid tanks, really solid!! The two they had in Rochester, IN were full of ice at the time I was there, or I would have brought a couple home with me.

For $210.00, that's not a bad price. Big R had the lowest prices. Tanks are made in Wisconsin by Freeland Industries, which has been around for a long time. Nice people to talk to as well. I'll bet I could get a better deal factory direct if I picked up at the factory.

Yeah that's an awesome price. Thanks for the info! Only concern I might have is if it appears to have ribbing in the center bottom that might make it difficult to put in a center drain, or might cause settleable solids to build up against the ribbing. However I can't tell by the illustration if that would be an issue.

OTOH if the price is right there is always a work around.

I have a similar tank that is 8 feet 7 feet in diameter * I picked up used off of Ebay from a guy in Ohio that was playing around with sharks of all things. I use it for my outdoor summer system as it won't fit inside any of the doors to my basement. Works great! Fortunately even though there is ribbing it isn't in the center bottom and I was able to install a 3 inch center drain via a uniseal and pvc shower drain.

*My tank is actually 7 feet in diameter on the bottom and a little bigger on top as it tapers out. Same depth though but was too lazy to flip it over and measure the top.

I see Farm and Fleet has Agrimaster 8 foot (625 gallon) and 9 foot (1000 gallon) diameter stock tanks 28 inch deep. Anybody have experience with one of these or seen them in person.

http://www.farmandfleet.com/farm-livestock/livestock-feed-equipment/feeders-waterers/stock-tanks/

JKB,

Looks like the ribs won't be an issue installing a center drain for you as I went out to look at my tank that is not being used for the winter, and the ribs do not extend to the center. I also didn't have any significant issues with solids trapped against the ribs. when in use.



I'm wondering if my tank wasn't made in the same mold as the ones you're looking at as the measurements seem the same width wise and depth wise.

No way to scope out the bottom while I was there. Froze my butt off while there just getting the two I did.

Yeah, I don't think they prepared for winter too well because a guy had to get a T post from inside the store to pry the tanks apart. They were quite frozen together. Got them loaded then sat in the parking lot for a couple minutes in my truck to thaw my hands and ears out. Wind was brutal!

Sent esshup a text that I got them. He wanted me to pull off in Plymouth and hit Applebee's, but I was tired of driving and just wanted to get home. Fairly clear roads, but once I
hit MI, got into some freezing rain, then some snow cover on top of that. Not the best scenario for driving.

No experience but don't see why they wouldn't work with the right plumbing.

Well since you brought it up...

Can you give some detail on how you set yours up? On top the ground with a trenched in bottom drain pipe? How did you cut the hole for the drain? etc. etc. etc......

Be happy to but prefer to start another thread. I don't want to hijack JKB's anymore than I have.

I'll have to get on my desktop vs. the mobile I'm on now. Promise detail with pics no later than tomorrow. Gotta watch the debate tonight.

R

So you got to see how incompetent some CEO's and CFO's are first hand? Unbelievable isn't it? And the amount of compensation they get for boner decisions is unreal too. And of course some, after running a corp into the ground walk away with a golden parachute.

The part that really baffles me is corps can run for months just fine without a CEO while they are looking for one. What does that say about their importance?

Cecil, didn't you have a post with pics explaining and showing the process of putting together your first RAS?

I do but I no longer do it that way. Constantly tweaking things.

Cecil, Hijack all you want. Makes for nice reading and good info.

Thanks Phil but I think I'll start another thread for another reason: If someone wants to find the info it will be easier if it's a separate thread with the appropriate title.

Had not messed around with things since I got back and the nitrites were sky high. Let it go until this afternoon and checked. Zero nitrites, so it was still working. Added more ammonia, so I'll see in a day or two if the bugs can live without a food source for an extended period of time.

Hey Bill, I just remembered I have a pile of new 1" bio-balls.

They are kinda like this, but blue in color.


I keep tripping over the ones I know where they are at. Well, searching for something else and you pick up and move a box to get to the box you're looking for...

Want some?

Cool! Are those ones that you use statically or do they need to get bounced around by air like the media?

They are generally used in a static situation for a biofilter, but they do float.

They could be put to use for degassing or a C02 stripper.

Thanks for the offer Phil but, I wouldn't know what to do with them at this point.

On another note...I got a China shipment today so will start playing with the media again. Also setup a 20 today with maple leaf stew brewing in anticipation of ordering up some scuds next week.

That was my original intent when I got them years ago, but need to go on the clean water side after the filtration, which you will need to employ pressure blowers and some controls.

Too much expense for a DIY rig tho, and that's where we want to keep this. Right?

If you do the DIY MBBR correctly, should be able to achieve a good +60% on gas stripping. That should allow enough DO for the rig, but too many fish or feed...

Keep us informed.

Yeah that's the thing. For a DIY rig if you're not pushing the envelope like the commercial systems that need to pay off their capital expense, it's not necessary to get too anal. I did once have 69 lbs. of yellow perch in a 150 gallon tank with no issues. But I was doing a 10 percent water change per day! And couldn't wait to get them into the pond!

I have a 250 gallon system (150 gallon tank) right now with 154 4 to 8 inch bluegills. Most are in the 6 inch range and only a handful are 8 inches. Not bad for not even one year old.

The thing is they were hand selected from the get go and the water is 78 F. Feed up to 5 X per day if I let them.

Minor set back..... After two days, the 2 inch layer of maple leaves in the future scud tank leached tannins that turned the entire 20 tank the color of strong tea. Plan B will be to drain the tank and remove the leaves to a bucket of water. I will do water changes on the bucket until the water is clear and then put them back in the tank.

What are the leaves for?

Scud chow and habitat.

That's interesting!

Bill D,
I'm feeling foolish for missing out on warning you about that. It didn't cross my mind that this might happen to you too. I too purchased some scud and put most in my pond, but kept a few in an inside aquarium. The seller of the scud recommended using leaves that were not easily obtained here in W MI (I think mulberry maybe he said?) I chose a mix of leaves that I had laying on the ground in the woods. Mostly maple, some oak, but all dead and very dry.

I probably only kept 20 or so scud and they buzzed around very happily in my aquarium with light aeration. But over time I too had tannin stain to the point of not being able to see them anymore. However at that point even though I tried to carefully strain water and remove leaves, i could not reliably catch any live scud to transfer. I think some died, and some held on to the leaves so I couldn't easily separate and save them. My experiment ended (at least the part in the aquarium inside did) I hope the scuds are fairing well in the pond. But they are such tiny buggers I have not confirmed a visual on them yet.

I missed your first posts so missed warning you about that. I do wonder if someone used live maple leaves (green) if that would have worked. Or maybe even some sections of aquatic weeds/plants would serve well as hiding, holding places and nutrition for the scuds? I imagine live oak leaves may not be appropriate here.

They are tiny critters so I hope you can successfully move them and continue your experiment.

So, exactly what is a Scud?

I mean, eliminating the missile type that don't work.

No one suggested leaves to me, so I didn't use them. Just acquarium gravel, a couple road gravel sized rocks, a coffee cup in the 10 gal tank, and FA. I feed them a little flake fish food now and then. The water in the 10 gal tank is getting pretty murky. I scooped a gal or so of water out a few days ago and replaced it with room temp tap water. The scuds in the 10 gal tank are more sluggish than those in the 3 gal, but most appear to be alive, just resting, and a few go shooting around here and there. Most in the 3 gal tank are quite active. The water in there is less murky.

Here's a current thread about scuds

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=436861&page=1

CC,

No worries. I haven't ordered the scuds yet. As I've never done this before, I'm taking it slow. I just setup the tank with the leaves and light aeration to observe for a week or so. I am going to drain everything and put the current leaves in a bucket with frequent water changes until they stop leaching then try them in the tank again. The website I looked at said maple or mulberry were best but did not mention issues with the leaching. I want to get this right if I can before ordering the scuds. Scuds need oxygen so I want to make sure I don't end up with an anaerobic layer of gunk in the bottom of the tank that the scuds can't utilize.

Just an update on my scuds. Both the tank in the cold-frame and in the basement are doing fine. Those in the basement all seem to be mating (coupled). I have a bubble filter and air stone in the basement tank and an artificial light on a timer. The scuds seem to be getting adjusted to the light, but many hang out under cover. I added 3 dry mulberry leaves to the basement tank a couple days ago which have now sunk. The water in both tanks is crystal clear. The scuds are eating shrimp pellets and flake food. So far no evidence of eating the leaves.

JKB,
My scuds are not the hyalella species that are mentioned in the thread post above. They probably are similar, at least similar size and shape but not exactly the same.

Mine are Gammarus sp. Never found out the species name. If I did it again I would probably avoid leaves, use green maple leaves that won't leach color, or use some other pond weed that had places to attach to and hide plus throw in some FA.

I also started with tap water but added some 'green water' from the pond to get the micro organisms in there.

Picture of mine here:
Gammarus sp.

They are very cheap to buy again and I probably should just buy some and toss them in the pond again. I might wait till my crayfish numbers are less and I have some vegetation growing again for them to hide in. Right now I do have a thick layer of dead leaves in the shallows as the wind blew the fall leaves into the shallows. I'm sure the scuds and the ghost shrimp love hiding out under those leaves.

Mine are Gammarus too.

Thanks!!

I thought that thread was something about plants, so never looked at it.

Thanks-CC!!

Where do you get them?

I wonder if you went to Muskegon Lake and scooped some of these up Bloody Red Shrimp , if you could get in trouble.

Checked last night, well, very early this morning. Ammonia and Nitrite were both back down to Zero, and Nitrate was about 5ppm.

Seems like it should be good to go.

Added more ammonia last night to continue and a second check.

Now, to get busy and set everything up proper with the new tanks.

I'm talking to myself

You can't feed those bugs store bought bottled ammonia forever man! What ya gonna put in those tanks!

You actually can.

YP were supposed to come from esshup, but need permits to cross into MI. No one open up here till this coming April.

To answer your question further, one tank will be YP, and the other tank will be BG. Not HBG!

I do have two 12' Intex pools I bought a few months ago that I'll set up outside after this darn snow melts.

Maybe about 30 or so more trees to remove this year, then I'll dig a hole in the sand and lay down a liner for small pond #1. Just want to do a one piece liner tho, be it 50'x50' or 50'x100'. They have come down in price. To do water table here would be crazy. Hire a good dirt guy and truck in clay would be insane!

I like the plan. Especially the part with the dug mini ponds. I would love to have one or more of those.

Any plan for the 40 G aquariums?

Everything is in a plan right now, someplace , but think I'll boot out the two 180G tanks, or use them for a dog bathtub.

I would like to get several different bait fish species for the 40G tanks. It's kinda like winter here tho.

I'll fill ya in later.

I'll be interested to see what baitfish you choose. I haven't found that many species suitable for our northern ponds that literature says can be propagated in aquariums. Please keep us informed.

Bill,

You need to go to the NANFA forum site. They have all kinds native minnow species in their tanks.

Thanks Cecil. I've looked at that site some but I will look some more. For me, I 'm looking for minnows that are legal in Illinois, will spawn in an aquarium, will make good pond forage and will have an available source for startup stock.

Same game plan on the bait fish. What's legal, available, not on the VHS list and will spawn in tanks.

One that I have been interested in is the Northern Redbelly Dace. Fits the above, and I think is really cool! I can get them from MI wholesale bait. They have a location not too far from me, but have to call ahead and make arraignments.

Another one that would be cool is the Creek Chub. I've seen a number of mini creek/stream rigs out there and have a 300G galvanized stock tank that's 3' wide x 8' long. Wouldn't be too difficult to make it into a continuous stream. That's a project I've had in the back of my bean for my brother, although, he is not aware of this task at the moment.

This is going to be fun! Only thing different between our goals, and maybe not, is I want minnows that will also have the potential to spawn in the pond. Will creek chubs spawn in a pond?

Maybe with right conditions. They do need flowing water and gravel bed to spawn. A large bait producer out of Wisconsin say's they have methods underway for farm production, but currently their creek chubs are wild caught.

Nice thing about the creek chub is they are very hardy on a hook in all seasons. That is, if you can get them locally.

Back in the day, you could go to the bait shop to get a dozen minnows and walk out with 4-6 dozen. They were all wild caught and mixed, so you might get a lot of different species in one trip. They were fun to try identify, which I did get quite a few. Even had one that was on the threatened species list at the time.

I am getting tired of dumping ammonia in this every day or so. I don't even measure anymore, just open the bottle and pour some in and call it good! Gone pretty soon, but Nitrite lags a few hours after.

Obviously, not scientific enough, but this is working quite well for what it is.

I am gaining a much more clear understanding of what the engineers were explaining to me.

That is the goal.

Getting bored, I went to the bait shop and picked up some, well, bait!


Got some Emerald Shiners, Golden Shiners and some Suckers. Didn't ask which sucker, so I'll have to figure it out.

This is just temporary holding till I set up another tank tomorrow. Only had 5 morts with the EMS on the 37 mile trip, but 2 were already toast when I left the bait shop.

I know these don't fit with the above plan, but when you're bored... Besides, those Emeralds will grow pretty quick and be nice WE bait.

The guy gave me 6 scoops of EMS, (wanted 6 dozen) so there are quite a few. Only got 6 each of the others. Never had any luck with GSH, but these are quite a bit larger than before.

Off to Wally World for some stuff...

Cool! Is that one of your 40 g tanks? Is it hooked up to your RAS?

40G tank with a Bio-Wheel 350 on it.

Those Emeralds were hungry!

Tossed in a few Zeigler pellets and they were pushing them all over the tank. Really funny!

Then, went to WW and got some goldfish flakes and some sinking shrimp pellets for the suckers. Those Emeralds tore right into the flakes, and then hit the pellets on the bottom.

Suckers like it dark and like to hide so I'll have to toss something in for them.

Seems like the BW 350 is putting in enough current for the Emeralds. They are a schooling fish that likes current.

Don't know how the GSH will fare. A couple are pretty big tho.

Emeralds are used for YP bait up here. The suckers and GSH are used for Pike bait.

Any concerns about water quality with that many in a 40?

Not really. I'll keep an eye on it tho, but have had 3X more than that in 11G totes with a BW 330 on it, and it worked just fine. Partial water changes every week because TDS goes crazy high after a while. I expect things to go wacky for a while till things stabilize tho.

Those appear to be juvenile white suckers. Wasn't sure at the time tho.

BTW I am no expert but, from the pic, the suckers look like whites to me with that mottled coloring.

I'm sure they are.

Went downstairs to check on the new guests. Suckers seemed to be snoozing in the corners. Shined my flashlight on one. It looked at me with kinda that look like GO Away! It's dark down there.

I have another BW 350 cycled if need be.

One thing I was thinking is get some 3" PVC pipe with a 3" dia airstone under it. Drill a bunch of holes in it and toss some of the media in there. Stand it upright in the tank. Should work OK and be easy to clean when need be.

I set up a 180G oval tank for the suckers and GSH. This was just to get them out of the 40G aquarium because they were too big to stay in there too long, and started to see some color on the ammonia chart.

Anyway, just gonna keep them in there for a while and do water changes. Went to Menards and got 4 bags of pea gravel, that was supposed to be washed... Not! Was going to line the bottom of the tank, but the darn sump pump in the basement took a crap, so washing them won't happen till I get a new one on the way home tomorrow.

They like the spacious new digs tho.

What's the plan for the 3 species of fish? Trying to get them to spawn, raise them for bait, just some fish to play around with in your new setup (like me with my RRs ) , etc?

Just getting use to it again. Been a while.

BTW, I hear snickers in the background

Ignore any snickers. That's what I do and then.....I take a big bite of an Almond Joy!

Update for me....I took my sis and bride to breakfast this morning. Place has an 8 foot bloody mary bar for 6 bucks! Awesome! Bought breakfast and my sis said she would pay the tip. I told her she could buy my fish on the way home. Stopped by the pet store and picked up 5 more RRs (guy gave me 2 extra so I got 7 ). Cost her 62 cents. Now I have 12 RRs....Is that a snicker I hear????

Not at all Bill, I think it's way cool! 1RR at a time

The problem these days with baitfish is you don't really know the journey they took to get to you.

I suspect the Emeralds were wild caught in Lake Erie or Lake Huron. Big bait place down by Detroit that scoops them up and tosses them into holding tanks. Then, they get put on a truck destined for larger distributors, which in turn toss them into another holding tank for whatever time. Then, they get packed up on another truck for delivery to a retail outlet, like a bait shop. How long they are at the bait shop in yet another holding tank is determined by how many people buy them. From talking to people, they only get deliveries once a week, so these little fish are probably quite stressed.

Water quality in the Emerald tank is really good, but the smaller ones are loosing the battle. Plucked one out last night that had it's belly eaten out. Typical of larger Emeralds ganging up on the weak.

Yea, it makes it tough to know what you're getting when you want fish that are not grown commercially. Like you said, they come from the wild so you are throwing the dice. I got lucky with where I'm getting my RRs. It's a pet shop and they quarantine their feeder RRs, guppies and goldfish for 30 days before they will sell them to make sure their is not something hinky with the fish.

All bait fish in MI have to be tested for disease and VHS before they can be sold. The rolling of the dice is with all of the handling along the way.

Back in the day, I would get them from the Native Americans that did the local wild caught thing and sold them to the bait shop. Meet them in the morning with a fresh catch. Those days are long gone.

The suckers and golden shiners did well in the small tank for the short duration they were in. Some of the suckers were, well, sucking on the tank bottom before I moved them to the bigger tank.

I think all they need now is some cheap booze, poker table, a few loose women, and maybe the smaller ones should be packing a side arm

I wonder what the mom and pop bait shops, that just hit the local creeks for a few minnows to sell, do for testing. Is the testing cheap there or are there just no mom and pop shops catching their own minnows in MI?

As far as I know, they all buy their bait from one of the major distributors now. The VHS thing changed the rules as to how bait is dealt with.

.

Been messing with the oval tanks, and they work really nice! Everything you want out of the tank goes to the center pretty quick!

Gonna get a couple more.

Not for everyone, and you have to determine what will work for you.

That's about it.