... Just digging thru and have a variety of seeds from 2012 for an intended garden that never happened.

Just wondering how long you can store seeds in a dry environment? Everything is sealed.

What is the best way to test for germination?

I need to start kicking this soon, otherwise Spring will arrive, and there goes another year.

BTW: I get most of my seeds from Harris.

FWIW - Back in the 70's I worked for a seed corn company. They did their germination tests by wrapping the seeds in damp paper and placing them in a small incubator type oven to keep them at perfect germination conditions. So for around the house type testing, I would just wrap a few in damp paper towel and set them somewhere warm. You need to keep the towels damp thru the approximate germination time for each seed. I would think you would need to test at least 10 seeds (IIRC the seed corn company used 100 per test) to get a feel for what germination % you might expect.

Storage of seed like corn is best done in a very cool dry place.

Good Luck!

+1 on what Bill said. Moist paper towels, keep 'em moist and keep 'em what Bill, over 70°F but below 80°F?

What about putting them between 2 sheets of paper towels that were moist, then putting a layer of saran wrap over it to keep it from drying out in these low humidity conditions?

Knowing JKB's inside temps, keeping them warm might be the trick...

JKB, some reading for ya.
http://www.webgrower.com/information/seed_germination.html

http://www.southernexposure.com/how-to-test-germination-ezp-162.html

I like the saran idea! Temp depends on the seeds. The seed pack should say what the minimum would be. Cool weather crops like radishes, cabbages, etc will germinate at lower temps. That 70 to 80 ought to work for dang near anything.

Edit:

I missed the question on how long can you keep seed. I wouldn't be afraid of seed marked 2012. I have successfully used seed kept in a cool dry place for many years. Germintion % may drop a little but not too bad. I read somewhere they have found grain seed in Eygptian tombs that is still viable!

Thanks for the info and links!

Maintaining temp will be an issue here, so I'll have to come up with something.

I do have a mini indoor greenhouse and (4) 2' grow lamps up in my camper. I could go dig that out, but last time I used it, it got really hot. Probably work well if these were Cactus seeds


Looks like this except for the lights.

How are the seeds sealed, and sealed in what?

The variables in successful long term seed storage are ethylene concentration, moisture, oxygen concentration, and temperature. And the single most important factor in long term storage is the container. You need an air tight sealed container, and the container material itself is critical. Probably the best and cheapest container are Kilner jars. If you're really into successful long term storage then flame-sealed glass vials are you're go to containers. Stay away from plastic containers.

Just factory sealed packages. They have been kept in a utility closet.

Some of them were packaged in plastic zip lock type packages. Kinda like the packages beef jerky comes in, except light can't penetrate.

Good to know about the jar storage. Thanks!!

Would it be beneficial to vacuum seal the jars? IIRC, there is some sort of gizmo you can get for Mason Jars. I have 48 pint size Ball Mason Jars. Would these work?

JKB

Ultimately it depends on your goal(s) for long term storage - how long do you want or need to store the seeds and what germination percentage are you wanting to result when you pull them from storage? And which class of seeds, orthodox or recalcitrant, you have to store.

Seed storage can quickly look nuts to those who are not "into it". LOL

I use Kilner jars for most, and glass vials flame-sealed for some varieties. I would not use Mason jars over Kilner jars. But you can utilize Mason jars, and as long as the seal is air tight, much better than the plastic bags you have.

Your plastic bags are permeable to water molecules because the pores of the polymers in the plastics are large enough for the water molecules to get through.

You can substitute CO2 or N for O2. But again, which you substitute depends on the seed class. Alternatively you can vacuum seal and remove partial or full O2. Vacuum seal or substitute depends on the class of seed and then the variety of seed.

One simple way to reduce the O2 level is to fill the storage container as full as possible.

You also need to consider what type of seeds they are. Some seeds like members of the allium family (onions) or parsnips are only viable for a year or two while most cole crops (cabbage) can be good for several years. Do a search for a seed viability chart. I think you'd be good on 2012 seeds. I market farm and buy most of my seeds in bulk, which often means I have older seed. Do the germination tests as mentioned above or just plant a little heavier if in doubt.

Good info guy's.

Menards has some stuff on sale for aiding in germinating seeds that's reasonable, so I'll swing by sometime this week.

I'm just a bit leery of these plug in resistive devices, leaving them on while I am away. Inductive loads blow stuff quick, resistive loads kinda creep in and heat all the wiring up.

Oh well.

That's what insurance is for, right?

.....as long as your not home!

All we do for almost everything we grow is drop the seed or seeds (as per planting best practices) in a peat pellet and follow the watering and light best practices. We start inside our home, and once the seeds germinate and grow to the point of transfer we move from peat pellet to grow pot and then from grow pot to transfer to outdoor gardens. Everything from cucumbers to melons to tomatoes to okra to onions to beans to peppers etc.

Jiffy Peat Pellets:
http://www.amazon.com/Jiffy-Professional...ords=jiffy+peat

Starter Pots:
http://www.amazon.com/Plantation-FS110-S...AB7DPSMBV9QNNBZ

Hydrofarm Grow Light:
http://www.amazon.com/Hydrofarm-JSV4-4-F...=Hydrofarm+JSV2

Hot House Heating Mat:
http://www.amazon.com/Hydrofarm-CK64060-...germination+mat


My 6 and 2 year olds planted last year using the products above and enjoyed a 95% germination rate.

That's how I've been doing it with the peat pellets, then transferring to the jiffy pots. I've never used the heat mats before. I should have about a half case of peat pellets left, just need to get more trays.

Menards has a similar heat mat combo kit on sale for about 20 bucks. They also have the little greenhouse I posted above for about the same price as well. Everyone else want's at least double the price.

First to test germination rate on the seeds I have to determine if I need new seeds.

Ya know, it kinda smelled like Spring outside the other day

Not sure if my renters insurance would cover an entire apartment building. I'm sure a circuit breaker would eventually pop.

Def look into the heat mats. They really do help with the sprouting and germination. We place the seed peats in the trays with covers on the mats.

I've decided to get two of these for starters: Agritape 22" x 4' w/screen

TSC has the little greenhouses on sale for $20.00, so I'll swing by this morning and pick up a couple.

I don't know if you're an experienced farmer, but if not, don't locate your growing station near a window. That is a mistake made by many newbies. They put their seeds next to a window. Often drafty, but always the light is not straight down but at an angle, the temperature varies depending upon the weather, and the light varies.

Ideally you want to control the amount of light, the direction of the light, and the time duration of the light. So invest in a grow light or lights, be it the one I linked or similar, so that you can control the light. Your seeds that germinate will thank you for it. If you're unable to turn on and off the light same times then a timer is your friend.

Also, when (if) you're ready to transplant your bounty outdoors you will ideally want to move the bounty out and in a little at a time, to adjust for temperature, humidity, and the sun light. You've nursed them in a controlled environment and some folks just throw them outside. It works, but you will likely find greater success if you make the move in increments.

+1. A lot of people don't know that plants can sunburn too...

Also helps to put a fan or other air mover to acclimate the plant or tree to wind stresses.



Pat W

Good info guys, Thanks!

Yeah, I've done this a few times before, just never used the heat mats. When they come in, I'll measure them up and build a grow stand for each.

I was getting pretty heavy into this when Mom was alive. Always more fun with someone else.

I did jump the gun and picked up a heated starter kit from Menards. Has the same jump start mat as the one posted above. Seems to be working well. Have some Dill and Pickle seeds in it now. Wanted to test those first.

I've done the Ziploc baggie/paper towel trick with pelleted pepper seeds to get them going, except I initially put them on top of the light fixture for the heat source. Well, not the best temp control, but it worked. Kinda tough to get them out once the roots are taking hold in the paper towel. Maybe a not so loose fiber paper towel?

Once they germinated and were going, I put them in 3" Jiffy Pots and cooked them under the lights in the mini greenhouse for a while. That worked pretty decent.

I did the hardening thing by setting them outside in partial sun for a bit each day on the bottom of a couple 75 gallon holding tanks that were upside down.

They did quite well, along with the Anaheim Chilies in a 4'x8' raised bed.

One thing I like about the 3" Jiffy Pots is you can just drill a hole in the ground with one of these:


Cut the eye off and chuck it in a cordless drill. Works Great!!! Everyone around me that messes with gardens has one now. I have a bunch left, so doubt I'll run out anytime soon.

I think the addition of heat mats this year will a big plus.

As far as lighting, already have a number of options on hand. I've used the 6500K near full sunlight spectrum fluorescent in the past and think those work well, just ON/OFF tho.

I'm sitting at the table right now with a single CFL bulb overhead and am getting 5.47 foot-candles at roughly 5'. Knowing that distance from the light to the plant can have an effect, do you think by adjusting the intensity of the light, rather than having to move it will be of benefit?

Is there any way to determine the proper intensity in some measurable value like FC or LUX for proper plant growth? I can swap out the ballasts on my 4' x 6 bulb fixtures with ballasts that accept a 0-10V Analog input (dimmer ballast) and adjust it. Seems that just maybe easier.

My wife has grown and sold vegetables at farmers markets for over 20 years. She has a B.S, in plant science from Rutgers. Different seeds do indeed have different needs for storage and different stability during storage. Most are good if stored in the refrigerator in a sealed container. My wife germinates all in flats of a good commercial artificial soil mix with bottom heat. Seedlings are transferred to plug trays until transplanting into the field. Different species need different size plug sizes. We operate on a pretty small scale right now with only about 2400 feet of row, but it is all raised bed plasticulture with drip irrigation. The tomatoes are all staked and trellised.

RAH, that would be really interesting to see. I'm just getting back into this and have done well with a number of plants, but Tomatoes seem to be a challenge. First year was getting someplace, then Blight wiped everything out. It was a tad dismal. After that, only did some container stuff, and it seemed to work a bit.

A friend of my sisters only grows Tomatoes in greenhouses, and that seems to work well for her. She never was afflicted with the Blight that passed thru.

Blight can be devastating. You may require fungicides to grow tomatoes in your area. There are some blight resistant varieties but I do not know how they taste.

http://www.news.cornell.edu/stories/2013/03/ready-plant-iron-lady-tomato-punches-out-blights

Personally, I am hoping the public will see through the misinformed anti-GMO campaigns and it will become cost-effective to put resistance genes into good-tasting varieties (I am not holding my breath). The delay is purely political as the genes are known.

http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-26189722

RAH:

Where do you get your drip irrigation supplies? I used it a lot out in So. Cal., but bought it locally from a supplier. Here in Indiana? I can't find the stuff locally except overpriced stuff at the big box stores.

I think my wife ordered Netafim from Hummerts. Our tubing is re-usable pressure compensating since we run 300 foot rows. How many feet do you need? Water must be filtered to keep the emitters free of clogs.

http://www.hummert.com/_uploads/default/pdfs/p241-349.pdf

Right now the orchard is small - 20 trees that are a mixture of semi-dwarf and standard. I'd be using well water to irrigate, but plan on filtering and making sure the pressure is correct too. I'll probably be adding another 5-7 trees next Spring too.

But, in 2016 a client is going to be planting a lot of fruit trees (60+) and he wants a drip system for them. The area that the fruit trees are going is about 70' wide by 600' long. Max run could be 300' because the piping hasn't been trenched in yet that will supply the orchard.

He really should put a drip system on the hardwood trees that were transplanted in December too, but that will take a LOT of tubing because of how they are spaced.

Irrigating trees in a different animal. In fruit orchards, the tubing is often buried. I am not sure if pressure compensating embitters are used on small plantings because of the greater distance between plants. I would consult a pomologist at Purdue. Maybe this fellow could help?

https://ag.purdue.edu/hla/Pages/Profile.aspx?strAlias=hirst&intDirDeptID=16

Thanks RAH. I've used the pressure compensating emitters on the fruit trees I had in So. Cal. and micro emitters on the flower beds, and the tape in the garden on the row crops.

I'll zing him a question.

A couple other sources for drip is Farm Tek and my favorite Berry Hill Irrigation out of VA.

I use a company called "the drip store" at http://www.dripirrigation.com.
For my orchard and blueberries, I uses one or more variable rate drippers per plant depending on the size of the plat.
http://www.dripirrigation.com/drip_irrigation_categories/97/drip_irrigation_parts/21

With the drip irrigation, is there any merit in rigging up gravity feed for a few raised beds?

Nearest electric and well water is about 600' from my Dad's house and don't want to do that just to rip it out at a later date. Not to mention, a straight line would mean ripping out a bunch of trees. Probably would have to get a booster pump as well.

I can poke in a shallow GW well and run a generator to fill some IBC's, or whatever. It's a PITA to fill barrels up and haul water back there. I'd usually put 6 in my truck and siphon them out. That's more work than I want.

Found this - Paste it into your browser

http://www.dripirrigation.com/drip_irrigation_chapters/9/drip_irrigation_pages/40

Find lots more by typing - gravity drip irrigation - into google

Thanks. Just wanted to know if anyone here has actually done it and what the caveats may be. Their personal experience.

Well, some seeds are opening up and it's only been a couple of days, so think I'm good to go with those. Wait and see how many tho.

Ever think of horizontal boring? No ripping up of trees that way.....

That would be a good idea if this particular run would be a permanent installation, but it's crossing 2 properties, so if one sold, it would have to be removed.

I think the heat mat from Menards eventually got too hot. Most of the seeds opened, then checking a couple days later, they seem to have bit the dust.

Are you sure that they did not succumb to damping off?

I had to look that up, and based on the multitude of info on the internet, could be possible.

Only thing I know is when I got home the other day, I could smell plastic. If you can smell it, it's warmer than it should be. It was quite warm and I pulled the plug.

The new mat's should be in any day now, so those will get rigged up with lighting and temp control.

I think the little mat got too hot. It's only a Chinese made resistive device that plugs into an outlet with no possible control other than unplugging it or tripping a circuit breaker, if that even happens.

There should be a temp control

Absolutely! How tight should I make this to cover the spectrum?

It's possibly a Chinese plot funded by the North Koreans to disrupt US agriculture. I would throw it away!

Well, it's just a resistive device with no control unless you cut the power.

After closer inspection of the little mat, USA made materials assembled in Mexico. I guess we can rule that Chinese plot out, or can we?

The new Agritape mats came in a bit ago. Haven't had much time to play with them, but am surprised and pleased on how well they are made. I'll get pics once this is set up.

I went to our main shop to get my control box. It's a Saginaw 4'Wx2'H 2 door job. Figured I would get that assembled. Looked all over for it, where did it go? Then I looked up Someone put it on the top of a pallet rack! How am I supposed to get it down by myself now?, no one was around. Just have to wait till next week.