... I haven't seen that in quite some time! Topped off my tank with 26.6 gallons for 79 bucks! Gas card is a perk, so boss will be happy, but it shocked the hell out of me!

If we wouldn't be sending a significant amount of our US gas abroad our gas would be even cheaper. So much for us as a country conserving our resources. It is always about making money. This thread can be deleted anytime.

Hey Bill, I was just commenting on the fact that I haven't seen these prices for quite some time now. Didn't mean to blow a nut, and certainly not political.

Just the average Joe putting fuel in his tank to get around

Non-pond and non-fishy threads can turn political and even go 'down hill' very easily on this and most forums. There are more appropriate places than here to discuss non-pond stuff such as facebook, etc.

What about Happy Birthday's. That's non pond and fishy stuff related?

I think this part of the forum allows you the freedom to discuss other things, within reason, and I think decent gas prices at the pump are reasonable.

Not even, and don't even care why they are, but if I can save a buck, That's Cool!

Keep Wall Street out of it and prices would be below $2


Pat W

$3.01 a gallon by my house, $2.95 a gallon 15 miles south.

I've given up on politics and politicians. Neither of the two major political parties cares about the American people. Just keeping power... There's my political rant for the day.

Still waiting to see diesel cheaper than gasoline.....

Don't hold your breath...

Yeah I just paid 2.98 this morning for gas!! With our kroger discount we could get it for 2.88!! Hard to believe we are all excited over 3 dollar gas........ LOL When it wasn't very long ago it was like 89 cents a gallon....

RC

CJB... AMEN!

Scott,
The last time I remember diesel cheaper than gasoline was before they started making cars that used diesel. Has it become cheaper since?

Nope, diesel is still more per gallon than gas.

Ok so I'll bite? Why is it more expensive? I hav never had anything diesel sooooo didn't really matter to me but just wondering why is it more expensive? Is it because of how it's made or not enough?? Just wondering...

RC

Supply and demand is my best guess...

RC51, I'm not sure why it's more expensive.

U.S. refineries produce an average of about 10 gallons of diesel fuel from one barrel (42 gallons) of crude oil.

U.S. refineries produce about 19 gallons of motor gasoline from one barrel (42 gallons) of crude oil.

From what I've heard, gasoline takes more refinement steps to produce, so from my thinking, it would be more expensive than diesel to produce.

All gasoline, when produced is unleaded. Remember leaded gas? Tetrahedral lead was added to gasoline to make "leaded gas". When unleaded gas first hit the market, it was priced at more $ per gallon than leaded gas. In my mind, it was strictly a marketing ploy to make more profit, although I could be wrong.

Then you have your state, local and federal taxes per gallon.
http://www.api.org/oil-and-natural-gas-overview/industry-economics/fuel-taxes

Here in Indiana, according to that website it is .57/gal for gas, .74/gal for diesel.

$2.92 at BP station this am

I hear the Canadians gave up on the Keystone pipeline and are going to build their own cross country pipeline going west to east cutting us out of the loop.

I can't wait till there is a better 'charge holder' for doing onsite solar with storage for cloudy days (all winter here in SW Michigan) The breakthroughs in solar, solar efficiency, new mass holding tanks for 'charge' (vs batteries) are accumulating rapidly.

I"m glad that solar aeration is a popular topic on this site as well. A good area for entrepeneurs as well.

$2.86 early last week...jumped to $3.29 for 3 days and is back to $2.88 now

Taxes, buddy, taxes....trucks pay the way and we pay in higher prices.

My GVW on my new truck is 42,000 pounds...Apportioned License plate for the 18 states I am "authorized to drive in is almost $900/yr, plus I have to track all fuel bought/mileage driven in each state and pay a fuel tax on top of the taxes paid at the pump...states like Kentucky charge every truck entering their fine state, $25 minimum for the privilege to just enter and not even stop, plus, you are rewarded with an extra $.40 per gallon surcharge tax on top of the taxes paid at the pump (based on quarterly fuel mileage reported) for the miles driven in their fine state....And people wonder why a loaf of bread that costs $.15 to bake is $2.50 at the store to buy....

As for the original leaded/unleaded costs, I'm sure it was partially a marketing ploy, but originally, the higher price was needed mostly to cover the huge loans/expense every station had to spend to get new fuel storage tanks buried, new pumps, smaller sized discharge nozzles, hoses, etc that were federally mandated on every fuel station selling gasoline....that is why so many stations closed down during that changeover also...

Diesel used to have far lower tax on it until the EPA required low sulpher for fuel, huge mileage efficiency improvements and newer engines that produce zero emissions now at the exhaust outlet (add the cost of Diesel exhaust fluid to the per gallon costs)...

But once transport truck mileage was improved, the gubments needed the tax revenue lost from the higher MPG, so they really jacked up the diesel taxes

Yep. Here the difference in diesel fuel at the pump if I have a DOT number is less than $0.05 per gallon. (the difference between "exempt trucks only" prices and auto diesel prices).

I won't buy the "exempt" fuel because after you pay your IFTA fuel tax...you pay about 40 cents a gallon more to save that nickel up front...Exempt stations ARE a marketing ploy on the drivers that never see or deal with the tax payments. Most companies would fire a driver buying fuel at them...

Wow.... thanks for the replies.... I think? My head hurts now....

RC

The more I learn, the angrier I become...

$2.84 yesterday and I dumped my XOM stock.

I expect it will hit $2.50 gal in Northern OK by November, along with a record number of earthquakes. The locals are smiling all the way to the bank.

I'm afraid with lower gas prices that development in my area will start up again. When gas prices go down, the "MORE LIBERAL FOLKS" start moving out by us. The recession we had was outstanding, high gas prices got them out of here as well as made many of their homes vacant. When you live in a very rural area and enjoy some super neighbors, it only takes a few "MORE LIBERAL FOLKS" to ruin the place.

I guess this is what Mr. Cody meant by going "political". Frankly I couldn't care any less what the gas prices are. Whatever the FREE market decides is fine by me, it's none of my business what a free man charges for their product.

Bill not quite that simple. Being in the business the real problem is pipe line infrastructure. All pipelines in North America even in Canada are trying to push more pressure that equals more volume through the same size pipe. This is where the pipe line bursts and breaks have started to happen. Then if we can't get it through the pipe line we run it with rail.

If the US wanted to drop the price of gas it could be done with one swipe of the pen. No ship that is not US flagged can leave the US port and land in a US port. How many US flagged ships can haul up graded fuel? What would this ship haul back from the north say Boston to the up graders in the gulf?

Main thing is supply and demand and difficulty moving up graded fuel around North America.

Heck were paying $117.9 per liter. Thats $4.72 per gallon.

Cheers Don.

And the fact the U.S. hasn't built a refinery since the 70's should have some effect shouldn't it?

Yep, it’s the above and more…politics, supply and demand, international crisis etc…etc……
……but mainly NEW TECHNOLOGY!

I have been fortunate to have participated through the entire digital age as well as the current energy independence of our nation.

At one time a vertical well bore could drill through a 10ft section of oil/gas bearing rock and would be a producing well - can you now imagine drilling the same formation, turning the drill bit and pipe horizontally and producing thousands of feet of pay? …..AND - observing/recording rock and fluid properties in real time - AMAZING TECHNOLOGY!

At the present time we have the capability of producing ~15 million barrels of oil/gas equivalent per day and even more energy if solar and wind is added to the mix.

Economics now come into play.
We were so successful in discovering new proven reserves of natural gas that prices dropped so low that drilling ceased, but in the process discovered oil that could be produced from shale. Same thing is happening today - price of oil/gas is so low drilling will be slowed due to cost exceeds price of product.

O&G prices won’t remain this low IMO because international economics come into play.
George

Almost son in law works for a major oil co . Says they base there cost on 60 $ a barrel we still good for a while


Pat W

$3.39 for regular this morning . Eleven miles south it's $3.07, while 20 miles east it's $3.04??

2.74 around here. Yay can spend on other stuff now


Pat W

Didn't last long. It did drop to $2.85 a day after I posted this. It's up to $3.20 and climbing. One thing that happens around here is on the weekends, the price will shoot up, then drop back down at the beginning of the week.

$2.71 this morning, just about everyplace around here.

Guy at a local station said it might drop lower.

A guy that I know who keeps watch on things like that said he heard $2.50 was possible before Spring.

It's 2.54 in pearland tex
Hope diesel goes down so prices will drop

Pat W

Diesel was $3.17/gal. In Goodrich, TX last weekend. But, the pumps were so packed, you couldnt have rode a bicycle through there. I've never seen it that cheap since before 2011.

I paid $2.39 today.

I was surprised that Virginia gasoline and diesel prices were lower than Oklahoma's prices these past several days.

West Virginia is usually about $0.30-$0.40 higher than VA. It is in the $2.60s near me in VA. It is good to live on the border.

Today, in Centerville, TX

Regular $1.99 diesel $3.26 Would'nt be surprised to see another parade of 18teen wheelers go visit Washington

That's a huge stretch for the trucking industry.

Sheesh, gas jumped to $3.09 this morning from $2.71 yesterday.

Asked the gal that owns this station, what happened?

She said the elections are over

Down to $3.05 this morning. Cheapest it's gotten so far.

E85 is what I burn. Here in MN it is $2.29999.

What kind of mileage do you get with E85?

When I was in Oklahoma this past week, I found that there was about a $0.30 difference between "pure gasoline" and "ethanol laced" gasoline.

My son and DIW in Oklahoma have two hybrid cars. They went back to the "non-pure" gasoline after a year of checking mileage using "pure" vs. "non-pure" gasoline. They found that the mileage difference was so minimal that they now just fill up their tanks wherever it is most convenient.

I just fill up when needed. My truck is one thing. But, my little Ford Fiesta is another. I get about 37 MPG motoring around here, and about 44 MPH on highway trips.

Ken

E-85 is a boon to my business.

$2.52 for regular unleaded here in St Louis again...same price for pure gasoline or up to a 10% ethanol blend. I've not seen E85 for sale around here in over 8 years, but when I sold auto parts, it was sure destroying engines fast.

Woody's smokehouse makes some amazing beef jerky!!!

010 GMC SIERRA SLT Extended Cab 4X4, 6.2 Liter, 3.73 Gear, 4W Disc Brakes, K&N CAI, Heartthrob 4 inch CBE, E85 tune by dynotune USA.

22 highway @60mph, 18 highway @80mph.

Since it was on the dyno, what's the HP/TQ readings too?

Tuesday, gas jumped from 2.52/gal to 2.89/gal Yesterday, only 4 days later, it is down to 2.44/gal. Every week now is the same. We are getting from .20 to .50 per gallon price spikes, and in just a few days, prices get slowly reduced to prices even lower than they started.....insane!

Our local prices finally dropped below three bucks per just this week.

Rex, It bounces like that all the time here. If you get gas mid-week, it's usually the lowest. Friday night the sign said $2.86. Not paying attention to the pump before almost full, it was at $3.049.

Picked up some diesel for the tractor, that was $4.09. I can get off road stuff, but not on Saturday in the area. I won't buy it from the station a mile away... trust me!

On-road diesel is $3.599 here.

3.11-3.29 down here.

I think they change the volatility levels of gas about 5x per year up here. Not sure what they do with diesel.

I was having an issue for about a week or two where there was some hesitation from an idle to moving. WT?, go online and check it out. Ton's of dollars involved for the fix, but it really was scraping the bottom of the tank at the gas station when I filled up. Ran it thru, and all is well.

They say that no price fixing goes on between companies. Anybody know why all stations in an area always seem to change their prices at the same time to the same price?

$8 / gal here. Smile guys...

I was checking into going to Istanbul for a week a couple months ago. No car rentals available. Book a flight from that end and it's expensive. Book two round trip with a two day layover in Switzerland on return, which included hotels from this end, and it was not much more than a dreary flight from Istanbul to Michigan.

Oh, I am sure there would have been an adventure in all of this, if it happened

JKB, we have like thousands of car rental companies here. I wonder why you had this problem .

If you ever come to the Southeast part of Turkey(Gaziantep) , give me a call(Forum call at least) .

Thanks Faith, we all need a wake up call now and then. I remember awhile back when gas was at about $4 per gal the local news was interviewing folks about the prices. One guy they talked to said "hey, we just got back from Italy and that's how much it was a Liter". We all seem to take for granted what a great country(THE BEST) we live in. Ain't gonna have some Federally kick down the door and haul the family away.
I don't have a lot of material things but me and my family are healthy and happy.
Let me be the first to wish everyone a Happy Thanksgiving.

Fatih, it was because they were all booked solid and nothing available from an online perspective.

I think it would be really cool to visit your part of the world. You may even think it to be cool to visit Grand Haven, MI. I live here and hate this town, but tourist from all over the world show up here and it get's to be a mess during the summer months.

I can honestly say it's a nice place to visit, but wouldn't want to live here

Paid $2.44 for gas yesterday. Diesel was $3.29, and 100% real gas was $3.39. I guess the market bears the 100% gas prices, but it's worth it for outdoor equipment.

Testify, brother.

2.38 last Thursday and jumped to 2.89 that afternoon...following sunday, back down to 2.44...today, Tuesday, 2.31...insane price hikes/drops

I guess the rioters have good fuel prices to burn down the area now

$2.09 for regular and $3.39 for diesel on the way home.

Asked a gal that owns a station down the road what she thinks is going on? Said many theories about, but she hasn't a clue. She said all she has to do is stay competitive. Told her that she better drop her price 4 more cents.

These are like 2004-5 prices. Hey, did we hit some sort of strange time thing and everything is going backwards? Ya know, I do feel younger today

$1.75 unleaded and $2.95 for diesel

Prices sure are hurting the Russkies. Could OPEC be going along with this to discourage the passage of the Keystone Pipeline project?

My understanding is that speculators drive the market. They'll be back.

Don't have a clue, but if this get's to $1.75 around here, that's going back some time.

One of the theories out is the lower prices are tossing extra bucks in peoples pockets so they can spend more on other things this holiday season.

OPEC is flooding the world market with oil. They want to stop America from participating in the world market. Every time America gears up exploration for our own oil, the Saudies fluid the market. It happened in the early 80's and it has taken a long time to get us back to where we are today. We improved technology (horizontal drilling and fracing horizontal wells). And they do it again. Flooding the market drops oil prices where American Companies can not compete. It's same thing as making tennis shoes in America, we can not make them for the same price as China. We all enjoy low fuel prices but this has already cost several thousands jobs in the energy business and it may cost millions of jobs before it's all over. I think it is time for America to have an energy policy and where we do not depend on the Middle East to provide the oil to America. And as far as the big Keystone pipeline we have been hearing about for several years. Canada can not produce the oil at todays oil pricing, so the keystone and Canada will pump little if any oil through the pipeline is no benefit to America now. Me, I would prefer to pay a little more at the pump to keep millions of Americans working.

I don't understand economics or world trade or any other related matter, but why would we want to participate in the world oil market by selling our oil when we consume so much of it that we have to buy it from other countries. I can understand that we would buy oil in an attempt to conserve our own but I certainly don't understand our selling our own domestic supply.

take it for what it's worth...

FedEx (NYSE: FDX) — Fuel costs are one of the biggest expenses
for this global shipper, meaning it should get a huge profit boost
this holiday quarter from lower oil prices.

Since driving is so much of my business, I would welcome $1.00/gallon gasoline and diesel. Since diesel is used to move every consumable that we use, I think that lower shipping costs (or at least lower household transportation costs) would keep $$ in peoples pockets. They would have that $$ to spend on other things, and I think our economy would show an uptick.

If the mid-east oil runs out one of these days, our "home" oil will still be there.

I know, I know, I don't work in the petrolium or drilling industry.....

UPS is still adding fuel surcharges although now that I'm a weekly shipper I get a substantial discount.

They say the airlines are saving a bundle too but ticket prices won't go down. But then there really are only a handful of airlines now (don't be fooled by the different names) so there just isn't that much competition anymore.

$1.99 for gas all over Dallas-Fort Worth right now. Diesel is at $2.89 and should drop another $.20-.30 in the next few weeks.


My family has a Charter Bus company and this price drop is saving us around $4000/week. We buy bulk fuel which already saves us $.60 if we bought it at the corner gas station and about a $1 if we buy it at a truck stop.

Make hay while the sun shines Chris! As we all know this won't last forever.

I'm loving it. However, when the oil companies start cutting drilling budgets and laying off workers, which they are now doing, the economy isn't going to like it as well.

Not to mention all the recently drilled private wells that will shut down due to operating costs soon exceeding production income....

Or the shale oil up north.

Putin's not happy. His economy's tanking.

There's pros and cons to everything....this can't last but I sure did enjoy filling up the truck for 2.13 a gallon. that's almost half of what it peaked at here in IL a few years back.

$1.93 here in Houston today. NOT looking forward to this.

Rob C

I feel for those who live in areas of the country that might be negatively impacted by lower fuel prices, but I have to admit that I'm liking it here, myself.

It's probably short-lived anyway. All it appears to take anymore, is one hurricane, one oil refinery snafu, one oil tanker aground. Or the mere threat of new upheaval in the mideast. There's always a disaster waiting in the wings for just such occasions as this.

I've noticed several new gas storage tanks popping up on peoples property around my neck of the woods, was wondering how long it would take before that started happening. I figure about a year from now I'll start seeing a lot of them for sale.

$1.96 at the station nearest my place on the way home. $2.14 at a place about a mile away, and they didn't seem to have any cars at the pump's. It's a zoo at these other places.

Don't know how low it will go or how long it will last, but one gal this morning said she wasn't going to risk it and finally filled her tank up. She said, usually she just put's in enough to get where she has to go for a few days.

Dual tanks on my truck would be kinda nice right now.

Since I started this thread, it cost me, well the boss, 35 bucks less to fill my tank, and if I'm just buzzing around locally, it's good for about 2 weeks.

I think this would be a good time for him to reconsider his profit sharing plan

On a similar note. I wonder what's happening with a project at a drill pipe mill in Hopkinsville. (they make oil well drilling pipe for BP) I'm supposed to go down there and make some magic happen, but haven't heard a peep in a couple months now, and I hope I don't!

What's the NOT part of this?

EDIT: Watched a story by Katie Couric, now I get it.

Dropping almost everyday here. $2.30 today. 1/4 tank still in the truck. Hmmmm....will wait till next week to fill'er up!

I really want to fill the tanks with diesel, but don't want to fill 'em with winterized fuel. I hope the prices stay low at least until the end of April.

I didn't know they had winterized diesel. Does that lower the quality or something?

It lowers the pour point, and reduces the chance of the fuel "gelling" in cold weather.

But at the same time it reduces the BTU's of a gallon of diesel, effectively dropping MPG. Between putting on snow tires on all 4 corners, and using "winter" diesel, I will see a 10%-15% drop in fuel mileage, maybe a bit more if it's sloppy out. Fuel alone will drop economy approximately 7% to 10%, depending on the fuel.

If I run summer fuel in the winter, I will treat it myself. I think the additives that I use are more expensive per gallon than what the refinery does to make winterized fuel, but I don't lose the mileage.

A tank full of gelled up diesel makes for a very long, miserable day.

Never had a problem with my tractor, but if it jell's up, is it possible to encase it in some heat?

Just started laundry a few minutes ago. Detergent was in my truck for a few days and a tad cold. Went to pour it into the washing machine and it came out in these jelled lumps. Not frozen at all, but not really fluid either.

Ummm... these lumps were a tad larger than the recommended cap full. Hope I don't get a call

Yes. Tarp it, and add supplemental, external heat.

Try not to melt the tarp.

I would just park it inside as it is now, but no heat. I think the propane heater I have would do the trick.

esshup...use Sea Foam as a winterizing agent. Raises BTU's, lowers pour point considerably, removes carbon/varnish.....GOOD stuff! One pint to 100 gallons diesel....

I love Sea Foam. Man it sure can put out a big smoke cloud out of 2 454 Crusaders (Bertram 31) that have been sitting for winter! ;-)

Rob C

Definitely Sea Foam. Works great in everything. I use it in all my small motors. It is the best fuel stabilizer I have found and I don't think they even make the claim they are a stabilizer on the label. I believe it is traditionally a marine gas additive, but a small engine repair buddy told me it is the only stabilizer he uses or recommends.

I like using Sea Foam in gasoline, but for diesel I use Stanadyne Winter 1000 and Performance Blue Bottle. Never had a problem even in -20F temps when treating summer fuel.

Hey Guys, I restore old classic cars and have been a mechanic all my life. Just for your info. I have used Sea foam automatic transmission treatment many times.One in particular comes to mind a 1968 mustang that had been sitting for 15 years. After I got it running It would not shift. All the check balls were stuck in the tranny. One 6$ bottle of sea foam and it started shifting and drove it all over town. My transmission guy told me it would need an overhaul. Six bucks was a pretty cheap overhaul. Merry Christmas everyone!!!

Sea Foam, Marvel Mystery Oil, and Starbrite are my additives of choice. I replaced all the fuel hoses on my bass boat 2 years ago do to ethanol collapsing the fuel hose linings. Then I proceeded to let 20 gallons of gas set in the tanks since then. Now I have another "have to" on my to do list.

Al, I had to replace a lot of fuel lines in the gasoline powered stuff that I have because of the ethanol.

Now I drive the 25 or so miles one way to get ethanol free gas.

I run 100LL fuel from the local airport in 2 of the 3 chainsaws, and e-free 93 octane in the one where the timing can't be adjusted.

Even so, I still use Marine grade Stabil in the gas and put in an ounce or 2 of SeaFoam per gallon as cheap insurance.

I'm curious what the agenda is of the Saudi's flooding the market which is bringing down the price of oil. In a recent article I read they claim they have no agenda and don't plan on reducing the supply soon.

Of course saying something and what the truth is can be two different things.

All kinds of theories out there though with the foremost being the Saudi's want to break the backs of some competitors.

They want to stop fracking cause it will bring down the cost per barrel of oil... Read that it will cost 8$ a barrel to get out... Course they won't sell for that


Pat W

Were already seeing pumpers shutting down and as long as the price hovers around $60.00 more will follow.

I don't see why we allow these peckerwoods to dictate anything to us when we only buy 20% from the middle east. Just ain't right


Buy American guys... It might be your job that you save!


Sorry can't help it! I love my country


Pat W

It's still dropping. Lowest price in MI is right here at $1.83.

Highest price is in Detroit, still over 3 bucks. That's a kick in the pant's to some of our fellow citizens

I finally bought diesel yesterday for $2.99.9/gal.

Unfortunately, oil is not a commodity where us as the consumer can pick and choose where the product was produced, can we? I'm talking about gasoline, diesel fuel and motor oils. There is no COA on any of the labels as far as I know.

Have no clue as to where the fuel around here is coming from.

Does anybody remember diesel being cheaper than gas back in the 60's and 70's or do I just have a bad memory?...

Bill
I remember gas at .19.9 a gal. 5$ could fill up the tank!

Pat W

Pat,

Those were the days, I could put $2 of gas in the car and have $8 left from my $10 pay from putting up hay all day at 1 cent a bale to take my girlfriend to the movies with all the snacks we could eat!

Back then the stations were full service. I remember pulling in to quite a few, and then they went into self serve. Then followed the convenience store. You want it, you get it yourself.

JKB,

LOL! You are so right my friend.....and they call it convenient now! Remember the guy had that little water bottle in his pocket and actually washed your windshield??

Bill D...It was right around 2000 when diesel prices topped gasoline.....courtesy of state and federal fuel tax hikes after EPA mandated fuel mileage gains on cars hit and reduced tax revenues.

Thanks Rex,

Please tell my wife my memory is not as bad as she says it is..... I would tell her myself but I can't remember where she is....grocery store?

I remember the whole ball of wax. Checking your oil, topping off fluids, washing windows.

The last station I went to that would actually man the pump and wash your windows was on Walker Ave. in GR on the West Side, it was a Citco. Mom and Dad lived a few blocks away. Station across the street was self serve and had a convenience store.

I thought it was really convenient to be the recipient of really good service.

I worked in the first self pump station in my town. I carried around a key to reset each pump after the customer paid me for their gas. If the customer rolled the pump to that extra half cent, it came out of my pay. Compensation by the station management was I got 10 cents for every carton of cigs I sold. Seemed everybody rolled that extra half cent!

I guess I'm just the opposite. I'm in a hurry, and the less time I spend filling up, the better. Whoever came up with pay at the pump has my eternal gratitude.

Dang, you're a bunch of old suckers.

OK, I worked at a Shell station and a couple more. I was the night shift. Six nights a week, 10 hours per night for $60.00 per week. Fill tanks, clean windshields, do lube jobs, repair flats and some occasional light mechanic work like tune ups and carbs. Not much of a social life at 19 YOA. I don't remember the gas price there but do remember 17.9 cents in Waco. Vagrants would sometimes come by and I would give them free coffee and buy them a candy bar. We kept a pistol around but never had a problem that called for using it.

A buck an hour was considerably more than I had made on farms and ranches.

Rex,
That's good info... I would have "thought" it was because demand for diesel was going up due to more cars becoming diesel burning.

Pat,
I believe it is the total supply of oil on the market that is causing the reduction in oil prices and not necessarily related to how much US buys internationally.

Hmmmm, when I turn in the gallons of fuel used for agricultural use (tax refund), they never have said that there is more tax on diesel than gasoline. I get equal back on whatever I use. This must be a tax that is added before they add on a road tax?

It looks like Ohio taxes diesel and gas the same.
http://www.tax.ohio.gov/excise/motor_fuel/tax_rates.aspx

If you want to see how the taxes vary between states for gas and diesel, there's links to interactive maps on here:

http://www.api.org/oil-and-natural-gas-overview/industry-economics/fuel-taxes

I think the Guberments (state and fed) will be thinking of slipping in more gas tax hikes while fuel prices are low and most likely going lower in the near future. I am sure they will try

Thanks Esshup, but then why is diesel more expensive? That chart shows federal tax is 6 cents more on gas than diesel, state tax is equal. Is the tax Rex referring to part of the manufacturing cost and they try to keep it hushed?

I believe part is a hidden EPA mandated tax (surcharge/fee?) on producers/crude suppliers to reduce soot emission. Part of what made the price spike was also the EPA mandate to reduce sulfer content which requires more refining.

Here is an excerpt from the U.S. Energy Information Administration...



Why has diesel fuel been more expensive than gasoline?

On-highway diesel fuel prices have been higher than regular gasoline prices almost continuously since September 2004, a break from the historical pattern of diesel fuel prices usually being lower than gasoline prices except in cold winters when demand for heating oil pushed diesel fuel prices higher. The main reasons why diesel fuel prices have been higher than gasoline prices in recent years are:
• High worldwide demand for diesel fuel and other distillate fuel oils, especially in Europe, China, India, and the United States, and a tight global refining capacity available to meet demand during the period of high economic growth from 2002 to mid-2008.
• The transition to less polluting, lower-sulfur diesel fuels in the United States affected diesel fuel production and distribution costs.
• The Federal excise tax for on-highway diesel fuel of 24.4 cents/gallon is 6 cents per gallon higher the gasoline tax.

Personally? I think there is a higher profit margin on diesel than on gasoline. It doesn't have to be refined as much as gasoline, so there should be less mfg. costs into it per gallon.

But, there is less diesel in a barrel of crude than gasoline.

At least that's my understanding.

Looks like it may hover around the buck 80 range for a while. It's not moving much, but that's a heck of a lot better than 3 bucks or more.

$1.67 this morning. Highest price in MI has been holding steady at $3.39 thru all of this. I won't mention the stations name

Diesel isn't dropping as fast, but it's coming down.

I read that MO was the first state to average under $2/gal of regular.

I paid $2.89 for diesel at the Shell station east of Livingston, TX this past week...cheapest I paid for diesel, so far. Not sure how long this will last. The Saudi's and Arabs (OPEC) are intent on breaking the Russian's backs financially like Reagan did back in 86'....Russia's lifting cost profits are based on $80-100 a barrel crude. With OPEC flooding the market, its killing the soviets financially.....until something changes in the political world, enjoy the lower prices. It WILL change...
Charlie

Scott, Marathon in Grovertown (10780 US-30 E near N 1100 E)
is $2.89 for diesel. Still $3.19 in GH.

Ummm, well, I sold a storage tank I built to a buddy because diesel prices were so high

Yep. I filled up there this evening. 15.23 gallons cost $45.67.

Only got 39 mpg this tank. Towing a big boxy 900# leaf blower on a 700# trailer, winter fuel and snow tires on all 4 corners.

I wonder what the China influence is in this political game. I just read somewhere they buy the vast majority of their oil.

Bill,
Other than a consumer, China should not pose as an influence as oil prices are set globally by supply and demand through OPEC. China gets its crude oil cheaper due to OPEC refusing to curtail their supply, therefore producing a glut which drives the global price down. China can buy from any oil producing nation that will sell to them.
Charlie

Hey Charlie,

I was thinking about it a little differently. Admittedly, way out there thinking but Pat W. has me on a Falstaff diet.... China is quickly becoming the world's banker. A lot of countries owe them money. So the banker says I want cheaper oil or no more loans. So the countries that sell food, goods and services to OPEC, as they have none, tell them prices are going up unless the price of oil comes down.

Bill

What did I do? Falstaff? If it was up to me there wouldn't be anything sold in our country from China

Pat

Esshup you got how many MPGs? 39? What do you drive that gets that kind of mileage?

Bill,
I follow your train of thought...but for decades, OPEC has been the dog. And as you well know, the tail doesn't wag the dog...the dog wags the tail. With that said, China may be the next dog...who knows. Cheaper crude prices are to China's advantage. Russia is the one struggling to sell their crude at a reduced price because their lifting costs are set at a much higher margin.

They aren't farming out Falstaff to China now, are they???

I think Pat thinks it comes from China. That's ok. I just wish he would could throwing the empties in the pond!


Falstaff bottles are not PB approved habitat or structure Pat!

Tube jig slow under a cork my friend!

Most things Nowadays do come from China andas crappy as Falstaff is it prolly is made in China and a reef of bottles might make a good hidey hole for fish


Pat

Pat, re: mileage.

That 39 mpg is uncharactistically poor mileage for me. In the winter I usually get in the low to mid 40 mpg range. During the warmer months (April thru early November) when I don't have snow tires on all 4 corners and don't burn winterized fuel, and get around 50 mpg. I've gotten as good as 64 mpg when I watch my right foot - done that for two tanks back to back, but it takes some concentration to press gently on the go pedal. Here to Dallas or here to Washington DC without stopping for fuel is possible.

I can tow up to around 3,500# gross, but like to keep it under 2,000# for less wear and tear.

No hybrid for me, it's a VW TDI Wagon. I have done some modifications to it, more for performance than for MPG, but the mpg did increase a tad vs. stock, about 4 mpg over stock.

Reflashed the computer (Rocketchip III), added larger injectors and changed some of the intercooler piping. That increased the hp and torque from 90/155 to 130/300. I didn't like the way the car stopped with 3 guys in it, hunting gear and a small (<1,000# gross) trailer, so I changed the brakes to larger brakes from an Audi TT Roadster (both front and rears). I changed 5th gear ratio to lose about 400 rpm on the highway and at the same time I added a Peloquin torque sensing differential. Then because of the brakes I had to go to 16" rims. There are more modifications done, but those are the biggies that pertain to mileage.

I use it for the majority of my driving where I don't need to tow something heavy, or go off-road. There's only about 4.5" of ground clearance, so even driving on some construction sites is an iffy propositon - I'll take the truck then.

Thanks Esshup
For some reason I was thinking full size truck, now that would be good mileage! Boy that keeps the fuel bill down.



Pat W

Well, the $1.66/gal gas didn't last long (one was at $1.62 for a short time) Lowest prices were this morning.

By noon, almost every station jumped at least $0.19, and it's still going up. One near the shop jumped $0.23 in one leap.

One report I read today said they expect oil prices to bottom out in the next few days, because it economically can't go any lower.

My truck's been in the shop for the past few days, so it never did get to taste the cheap gas.

Still, if our oil production can at least keep things moderate...

I'll bet oil speculators lost a ton of money. OTOH if you know it will go back up now would be the time to buy oil stocks.

I wouldn't buy any oil stocks just yet. I have worked in 2 different oil companies, know how to value an oil company and have too much formal education in financial analysis.

So, about 3 or 4 weeks ago, actually about 2 days before the Saudi's made their announcement, I bought 500 shares of a small Texas based oil/gas company for about $20 per share. All the numbers and financial ratios looked very positive and were a good buy out candidate. It had BUY ratings from a lot of Market Analysts was fairly valued and I couldn't find very many negatives. Then the Arabs took their direct shot at reducing competition from Russia, South America, the Keystone Pipeline and others. I hadn't figured on the geopolitical forces. Heck, nobody did. Within 2 days it was selling for $7.00 per share. It is now back up to $9.50 per share. Yessir, I'm sure an astute investor.

I'm watching for an entry point on a couple of others but my belief in myself as a whizeroo has been pretty well rocked.

My Wife said something the other day about being glad that I had gotten out of all the oil stocks that I had. I reluctantly admitted my mistake to her. I got "the look". I'm sure those of you who are married understand "the look".

DD1

Ouch sounds like my kind of luck!

Pat W

Let me relate to you something that happened positively to my dad.

First of all my dad knows absolutely nothing about stocks and has no interest in them. Back when he worked 21 years as an I &R guy for a telephone company after retiring from the military, he had got a really good 401k plan with 100 percent matching funds and stock in the company or some kind of portfolio.

One day he got really worried about his stocks and decided to cash them in. He had no bad information or anything to tell him he should be concerned. But an inner voice told him to get out. So he cashed them in.

Not long after that (maybe even the next day I can't remember) the stockmarket crashed and he would have been left with virtually nothing.. To this day he doesn't know why he felt that way but was glad he did it.

I don't know exactly when this was without asking him,but I think it was in the 80's. He's in Europe right now so I can't ask him.

I guess I look at things a little differently. First, I never buy a stock I am not willing to keep for long term (The Warren Buffett philosophy). If I bought a stock today at $50 and something happened in the market to lower the overall industry (not just that single company) in the short term and that stock dropped to $10, I would consider taking advantage of the short term bad news and buy more to get my overall cost down. My decison would be based on how sure I am the problem is "short term."

I'm at the age where I don't want to be cannon fodder anymore. The big boys use us as cannon fodder. Just when you think you know what to do ..... Bam they got your money.... I'm done



Pat W

Yea, it's kind of like going to Vegas. Never take money you can't afford to lose.

Dave D.

I am a firm believer that all women are born with the ability to provide "The Look." My wife is from Thailand and she has it down to a tee! I got hit with it this morning. She says she has a 30% off coupon at Kohl's that is going to expire so she needs to go shopping. I said if she doesn't go, we save 100%. Boy did I get "The Look!"

Cecil,
Chances are, that would probably have been October 19, 1987...otherwise known as Black Monday...I remember it well.

I've never been one to delegate much of anything, and that includes my finances. I'm not a gambler, and firmly believe that a dollar in MY hand is worth two in my portfolio....especially when someone else's hand is manipulating that portfolio. The more things I have under my direct control, the better.

My feelings are that whenever you let anyone else have any type of say-so, financially speaking, you're screwed. Maybe not today, or tomorrow or next week....but it's coming.

Many of you know that I am self-employed in my little one man repair shop. And while that is certainly no guarantee of success, (far from it), at least my individual success or failure is in my own hands to a much greater degree than if someone else were calling the shots.

I've never shared this before, but I had a great job before doing what I do now. I have no doubt that it was the best job I will ever have. But it wasn't really MY job....I was simply doing it for someone else. And one day, that someone else decided the grass looked greener south of the Rio Grande. C-ya.

I keep this letter in a cheap frame, on my desk here in the shop. Whenever I have a crappy work day, I sit down and read it. Yeah, the day may not get any less crappy, but at least I'm the one deciding which direction I go from here. But hey, they recognized the concern it created for myself and my family, right?

Anthony you are indeed living in Freedom.Pun intended!

I think you're right!

Great story Tony and thanks for sharing! Been there done that and still doing as far as sole proprietor. I don't make a lot of money but I have a lot of freedom. Now that my house and property is paid off I have even more freedom!

Lusk's story is a good one too. He worked his way out of the trenches like many of us.

Sparky, you are now employed by the best boss in the world !!! Keep on being honest and fair and you will not only be financially triumphant but also be respected. A wise man once told me that "a man only takes his reputation with him when he dies"
Cecil, when your pop returns from Europe have him give me a call. I have several hundred dollars invested in the market that I am quite concerned about.

Bob-O, I have been employed by that best boss in the world for a few years now. And I can tell you that there are times when I would do anything other than what I'm currently doing, were the opportunity to present itself.

Yes, there's freedom, and the feeling of doing it your way....but as I imagine most who are self-employed would agree, there are those days when punching the clock for someone else, and letting them suffer the headaches, sounds awfully appealing.

Much obliged tubguy. Pretty informal around here, so Tony is fine! I don't hear Anthony used very often.

I was fired once in 1995. I started my own business (yes, a corporation). I will never be rich in monetary terms though I have much to be thankful for.

This is not a recommendation! I have been using the United States Oil Fund (USO). I buy shares as the price falls and then sell shares when the price rises. Pick a buy point and a sell point and stick to it for the long term. I have been buying recently since the price has fallen through the all time previous low (around $24 in 2009).

It will always go back up.........................

Tony
What kind of work do you do? I saw where you were recommended for rebuilding pumps.I have been over your way a few times picking up parts at Truck Parts Unlimited.
I have a part time business that I operate out of my house which is kind of a bittersweet thing.I sometimes restore antique bathtubs which require a lot of body filler and multiple coats of paint and primer.A lot of hurry up and wait.During these wait times I often find myself walking through the woods, mowing the yard,working on a tractor,or sighting in a gun. Needless to say I have some unprofitable days.I find my days are usually more productive when I schedule service calls for onsite repairs.I honestly think that those piddle days are my therapy though and I am looking forward to having my pond finished so I can take a fishing pole on my walks!

Sounds good tubguy...I sent you a pm.

I can relate to that too! And in some ways we have more than one boss with a small percentage a royal PITA. Fortunately it's a very small percentage for me and I've pretty much weeded most of them out.

Cecil, ain't that the truth! In the beginning you're starving to death, so you take on everything and everyone....then as time passes, you get a little smarter. Or maybe I've just learned I don't have to eat so much.

I was told not all business is good business, and you can't be everything to everyone!

I absolutely believe that there are some jobs/customers you're better off without. Took me awhile to figure that out, what with that nasty, lurking fear of starvation and all.

But you soon learn. Wow, do you ever learn. Glad those days are behind me. Trust your first instinct....it's usually correct.

Whoever said the customer is ALWAYS right never ran a business or went out of business a long time ago.

Some will take advantage of you if they can. Some think anyone in business is loaded.

I knew a guy that worked for a big box store where cutomers were allowed to bring back partially used cans of paint no questions asked. I don't believe that store is in business anymore. People were using what paint they needed and bringing back the rest for a full refund!

Don't get me wrong I always go out of my way to please a customer, but there are some real pieces of work out there! No pun intended!

Dwight, USO is now 56% cash and selling at about $20.00

They talked me into it. 401K kicks in after midnight. Only went in at 6% of gross, and the boss kicks in 25% of what I do, and that's his form of profit sharing, but I have my own

Suppose it's gonna be another bookmark and log into my account type thing to see what's up.

I did go rather aggressive, but hey, try it for a short while.

Locally now also down to $1.67 in NW Ohio and getting too low. Too low for gas will hurt the economy and some of the smaller producers will not be able to make any money and quit producing which will reduce supply and increase prices. It would be best all round if prices stabilized around $2.50.

$2.13 here.

$2.01 today. Lowest so far.

$1.66 at Murphy (Walmart), $1.67 at Mobil. Only 2 stations that didn't flinch when everyone started to jack prices up again last week.

MI average price is $1.981/gal for reg.

For summer gas, I've noticed my best mileage from Marathon and Shell fuels.

Bill Cody, when they do stabilize, I hope it's reasonable for everyone involved.

I'd like it to stay low for a vacation I'd like to take in June to New England!

$1.71 Tuesday...$1.99 Wednesday afternoon (normal price hike day/time in the area), $1.89 Thursday morning.....

Lowest for reg. is $1.26/gal. Lowest for diesel is $1.79/gal. Well, in MI.

I saw on the news some Wonderful Lawmakers see this as a possible opportunity to raise gas tax

Wow in Houston area 1.97 for regular and 2.70 or so for diesel. Why the heck is your prices so low when most is refined down this way!

Pat

Our prices here in Illinois are higher as we have the highest gas tax of any of our adjoining states.

Ya, the lowest we have had around here is 1.87

Have no clue!

At Walmart here in Hurst, gas is $1.57. At Walmart in Bowie, it is $1.82.

Like the Godfather said, it's just business.

Still at $2.65 a gallon here in lovely low-cost NY. $0.75 of that is taxes. It is out of hand in this state.

Tell me about it. Used to drive the thruway on to Mass and tried not to stop in NY for gas or food!

Beautiful state though and awesome fishing. Was really impressed with how Niagara Falls has cleaned up last summer vs. when I had last stopped there on my honeymoon in 1990. Back in 1990 there was litter everywhere. Not this time. And it was apparent there had been new landscaping and upgrades. There was even a statue of Nikola Tesla! About time they give him some credit that Edison stole!

Yeah, Buffalo is finally getting its act together after the loss of all of those steel mills. Niagara is pretty awesome, and even more amazing around Christmas when they do the festival of lights on both sides. Just don't park your car where the mist falls like I did once. I couldn't get into my car!

The advantage of high taxes is it keeps development rates very low. That means we still have country, farms, etc close to decent paying jobs. I could do a lot better in other states, but at the cost of not having any land or a pond unless I invested in a separate "camp" or something.

Mr. Tesla is somewhat of a hero for me as I have built Tesla coils, played a lot with induction motors, and much of what he developed is in use at my day to day job. I tried to get a picture of my son on his lap at the falls, but he is so wiggly he kept slipping off! The lap is pretty slippery.

Wow.....$1.44, Really???

http://www.texasgasprices.com/

$1.79 this morning in Council Bluffs, IA.

1.99 for the lowest grade last night in Ligonier, Indiana.

My son drives a 66 Newport and really is liking the $1.99 gas!

It was bound to happen.
Jobs

Yep, the last one out needs to "turn out the lights, the party's over".

Last week prices really jumped. Wednesday evening $1.85, Thursday morning $2.19 and holding. Still better than 3 bucks tho.

JKB, suppose the oil boys are in bed with the meteorologist and are wantin a big storm to continue the price increases?

Bob please tell me you're not one of those conspiracy folks!

I think yer ALL out ta get me. I ain't paranoid, I'm realistic.

Interesting read on why oil prices are where they are:


http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/colu...elvr00fq8z00dth

Na yall got it all wrong-- them there oil sheiks rolled over and needed a few more wives so the price went up

On a related topic, I hope to hire a dirt guy to begin moving dirt for my pond in a week or two. How much difference do lower diesel prices make per cubic yard moved?

Probably none to you unless yer dirt guy is honest. I believe UPS added a surcharge for fuel and did not remove it when gas prices dropped. Read the other day how many millions the airlines are saving per weak and their charges haven't changed.
Hope I didn't wiz on yer parade.

I'm with Bob. The decrease in oil prices is recent. The reduction in fuel cost is just adding to the bottom line of the fuel users at this point and is not trickling down to the consumers. Maybe if the price stays down, that will change.

I don't think yer paranoid Bob. Sometimes I hear those little voices in my head too!

Since I ship UPS about every week I can tell you they not only didn't they drop their increases in prices after oil shot up in 2008, but they are still tacking on not only a fuel surcharge, but a residential pick up surcharge, and residential delivery surcharge. And they raised their rates in December 4 percent for domestic shipping even though costs have gone down. This is what happens when a corp gets on the stock market and doesn't have much competition. And don't even try and collect on their insurance. It's almost impossible if you packed the box yourself.

Why should it? Most of the airlines in the U.S. are owned by a very small group of carriers now. If you don't have to worry about customers running to a competitior due to lower prices why drop your prices? Can you spell monopoly?

Get used to it my friend. Big companies are sucking up the little companies everyday and merging with other big companies. The days of competition in the market place could soon be a subject only for history books.

You're preaching to the choir Bill.

Actually, everyone is skeptical, so don't think prices will drop on goods and such.

Why would you do that in the freak nature of this?

Had a run of lower priced fuel that buzzed around the country and put consumer bucks in other areas.

I'm not convinced, nor entertained the thought that these low prices would be sustainable for any duration.

My personal opinion is that fuel prices will eventually come back with a vengeance on the consumer.

The US...

Take what you can get and be happy

and then the big boys will add on Another fuel surcharge...

I don't begrudge UPS, FedEx or airlines leaving charges and prices in place for a little while. They drained billions of reserve capital when prices rose daily...that reserve is how they survived, and a smart business will recoup what they can, when they can for the next bout of hard times! I'm not so sure the savings in fuel means people are just spending that extra dollar in their pocket....the smart person is putting it back into their savings that got depleted, just like the businesses...

I don't think its the gas price that is the factor, it's the price of diesel that matters. Trucks and trains run on diesel. Down here diesel is 1$ higher than gasoline. So untill diesel drops nothing will come down in price cause transportation costs drive prices


Pat

Lowest it got to here was $1.81. Back up to $2.27 today.

Sorry Rex they're as crooked as a dog's hind leg. But then so are a lot of corps. That's why they have an army of lawyers to defend them and creative investors to find loopholes. And when the stockholders are pressuing a corp to make more and more profts...

Was going over invoices of my UPS shipments. It appears they routinely tack on extra charges as the claim my boxes weigh more than my ceritified scale says they do. Imagine that? On top of that my boxes are manufactured be certain dimensions to ship my frozen fish. I.e. 24 X 10 X10 for my 4 to 5 pound trout. How they come up with 24 X 10 X 11 to charge extra baffles me.

They also bill me weekly which doest't give my check time to clear. I have to be careful so I don't overpay.

I've not used UPS in ages...way too many damage claims and only one damage claim with FedEx in 6 years of exclusive use. I just can't agree with the blanket feeling a corporation is "crooked". The army of lawyers is to navigate the sea of useless, duplicitous and often conflicting Federal Regulations and parasitic lawyers trying to recover damages with frivolous suits...Are you in business for yourself to lose, or make money? Corps employ tons of people, and make money...no one is forcing you or anyone else to buy their products or services (except the government, now)

Of course no one's forcing me Rex. But I really have only two choices: UPS or Fed Ex. It's called an oligipoly. Use one of us or take a hike.

Fed Ex is even worse than UPS contracting out drivers and squeezing them.

That depends on which branch of FedEx you are talking about. FedEx Home Delivery (purple/green) is (or was) contract drivers, FedEx Express (Purple/Grey) is not (or was not) contract drivers. They worked for the company and didn't own or lease their trucks that they drove.

If they are overcharging you for weight, or for measurement, call them to task on it at that time that they fill out the bill. If you weigh the box on your scale, and they weigh the box on their scale, and both are certified, then somebody's scale is wrong...... I believe that if a box weighs 5 pounds one ounce, then you are charged for 6 pounds, not 5. Think of the bill as a contract between two parties. If you agree to it, you sign it and pay the amount. If it's disputed, the dispute needs to be ironed out before the contract is paid.

Or, just do like a lot of businesses are doing. The buyer pays for the shipping charges, and they get to pick what service they want to pay for. If FedEx is a PITA to ship from, then don't offer that as an option.

i.e. for me here, UPS has better delivery service and better customer service than FedEx Express, FedEx Home Delivery and USPS both run about even in regards to timely delivery and customer service. UPS will put a package inside my enclosed back porch, out of the elements, rain or shine. FedEx Express will put it inside a clear plastic bag and put it out in the weather by the front door if it's raining, no bag if it's sunny out. FedEx Home Delivery will leave the package by the front door, no bag even in rain/snow and USPS will leave the package in the driveway at the base of the 2 step concrete front porch or put it by the front door, no plastic bag, no matter what the weather is.

(The door to the back porch is literally less than 25' away from the front door.)

When I owned my importing business (from Egypt), I used both, and they were both pretty good. We used UPS every day for shipments within the US, and they were really great - always came at 2 pm, and would wait if we weren't ready.
Some genius at UPS put the default setting at "next day" so if you don't change to "2 or 3 day etc" each time, you got stuck with a rather large bill. I don't fault them at all - that's just business. Whoever came up with that should be given a giant raise - can you image the number of times a day someone hits the "finish" button w/out making the change?
Cha-ching!!!!

I don't know, but for me, FedEx has UPS beat in every category. I can have them pick up at my home, ship next day with a cut-off time of 9:45PM (at the airport, and if I am late, which for me is often, the pilot himself will take my package and scan it at the first stop. My packages leave St Louis at 10:25PM and are on a customer's doorstep by 10AM the next morning....1 minute late, and the on-time guarantee kicks in and my freight is free. I just can't beat a turn around time under 12 hours unless shipping same day to an airport. I can deliver 100# of fish from STL to LAX in about 3.5 hours for $65. Like I said earlier, only one damaged shipment in all my years of exclusive FedEx use. Before that, I let UPS and FedEx compete for my shipping, and UPS service was simply horrid, late deliveries, damaged/crushed boxes with no notations and any claim took weeks to settle. With FedEx, even a torn outer box was notated, and if one second late, it was free.

I use mainly overnight services, but even when using ground service, my FedEx next day service area (same price anywhere in the lower 48 as up to 4-day) is also nearly triple the geographic size of what UPS offers me.

Cecil, I'm truly sorry you think so many companies are crooked...If they were, they'd have no employees, or customers, have their hind legs cut off and quickly be outta business. FedEx and UPS are the BIG 2, but far from the only options if you chose to dig. The reason they are so big is they did the legwork for door to door delivery, and for what I consider, a VERY fair price to deliver nearly anything I hand them, anywhere, door to door.

Call me sentimental, but I like getting my mail everyday. I try to ship everything I can USPS to support those folks. Hard working bunch of people.

I really like those boxes they have that if it fits it ships at one price, regardless of weight (max 70 lbs).

Edit: I also like they will come to my place to pick up the package and offer the same timeframe delivery options as the private companies.

Scott is spot on about the shipping contract also (and weights) 5.01 pounds is charged at a higher weight. A mis-cut or improperly taped box stamped 20x10x10 that will actually measure .001 over is charged at the next increment. These companies have governmental agencies up the yin-yang verifying their scales and measuring equipment...I can assure you, NO busy clerk is paid to screw over a customer by adding a bit here and there....they don't have the time nor concern, nor motive to do that. I have had my packages audited and occasionally got upcharged, but since I gave myself a 3 ounce error margin on average weight, I never disputed putting in too much water or dry ice. Also, occasionally my boxes would bulge, exceeding the size listed and when passing through their lasers, it would get upcharged.

Size and weight is CRITICAL for these shipping companies, they demand accuracy for loading reasons and aircraft balancing, NOT to screw the little guy!

Rex, I will need to ship some fish later on this Spring, we gotta talk at the conference. You have any experience shipping internationally?

I leave the international customs/paperwork headaches to the customer and ship to Miami. There are some forwarders there that navigate the international regs and quarantines...It has been a while and I can't recall any names.

Unfortunately, If you have to ship to another country from your origin in the US, you have to do the paperwork to kinda help it get to it's destination. England is the worst, and it don't matter who you use.

Just try shipping to Russia. It may get there but the contents seem to disappear.

You left off ".., Senator." at the end of your comment.

Rex,

I don't think all corps are crooked. LOL And I do know sonething about running a business as I run two of them. Of course they have to make profits and I don't begrudge them that. However what I'm seeing with my UPS account is gouging and the fact that they know they're are only two major shippers in the U.S. And their guarantee to be on time is not worth the paper it's written on. Shipped some fish in early December to Montana and they sat in Illinois for three days. It took seven days when they were guaranteed to arrive in four. Needless to say they were a bloody mess and UPS didn't give a crap. Don't even try and collect on damage. It's virtually impossible. You can do all this if you don't have competition.

If there there was serious competition for shippers in the U.S. I guarantee you their rates woukd be considerably lower. In fact one shipper, Speedee, that is only confined to a few states at this point, is much lower to ship for comparable distances and I've been told by customers the service is excellent. Unfortunately they are not in Indiana yet.

http://www.speedeedelivery.com/areas.html


My shipping expense is up to 30 percent of the sale price of a fish and I'm not selling them cheap as they are up to $120.00 per fish. Just seems a little too high too me.

Btw I do like the on line tracking and ease of setting up shipping from my home on the computer and the printing of the scanable labels with UPS. I'm sure it's the same with FedEx. Also the drivers are nothing but professional from my experience. Not crazy about the $13.00 pick up fee if I don't order something to be delivered to coincide with the day I want pick up, in which I avoid the pick up fee.

I used to use Priority Mail exclusively as no matter where I shipped my frozen fish in insulated boxes in the U.S., including Hawaii; it got there in three days. And it was a better rate than UPS and Fed Ex The last two out of three boxes I shipped to Northwest Ohio from Northeast indiana took four days. I can drive their in two hours. The second one I shipped 2nd day and it still took 4 days! It was explained to me that every parcel in Indiana regardless of where it goes has to be sorted in Indianapolis now. They lost me as a customer.

I hear ya on that part. If I mail my neighbor 2 houses down a card it takes 2 days to get there as it has to go to another town to be sorted! I asked about this once at the post office and was told USPS has lost so much business to Fedex and UPS, they have had to close many of their sorting facilities and smaller post offices.

Rex,

I'm well aware of going up to the next pound and already do that. I .e, the box weighs 3 lbs. 4 ounces so I type in 4 lbs. And my scale is checked by the goverment every year too. That why it's certified.

.001 over is charged to the next inch? Who told you that? Holy crap what are they measuring with industrial calipers?

Type in UPS complaints including unethical business practices in a google search. Plenty of reading material.

Speaking of USPS. I went to get a money order a couple hours ago, and was going to send it out priority mail. Puters were down and could only sell stamps for cash, no receipt if you need one.

I go to the bank and get a MO, then back to the post office. This time I read the notice on the door, and systems are down, nation wide.

Asked the gal what happened? She don't know, just that everything went down.

I bought my stamp and asked if mail was moving? She said no problem with regular mail, and this is going local, so you're fine.

Gas prices seem to have stabilized around the $2.30-40 mark around here. I can live with that.

The high speed conveyor systems I've seen incorporate lasers that measure each piece on a high speed scale and software calculates the best packing arrangements for loading.

Most of those Priority Mail packages probably get put on FedEx Jets...why do you think you'll find FedEx overnight drop boxes in most USPS parking lots?

Both FedEx and UPS will occasionally use the USPS to do the final delivery. I don't know how that gets arranged.

Oh my!

At the local hub they must not have that yet. I was told by someone that worked there that they have so many boxes around Christmas time they are walking on them. And they pretty much dump the boxes out of incoming trucks enmass to save time. No wonder they are so hard on boxes!

This explains the condition of some of the boxes I shipped. I got out of doing and shipping fragile wholesale fish for that reason. Had to build custom crates for each fish to keep them from getting crushed. That was time consuming, and you can only pass on the cost to the consumer so much-- especially at wholesale prices. It was also impossible to get a claim paid. They fought me tooth and nail.

I've seen drivers for both show up at the local post office. Both carriers know some of the rural routes are not cost effective.

I don't believe REX is talking about 0.001" accuracy here, because that will never happen.

I use Scanning Arrays and Lasers all the time, but you have to understand the nature of the beast.

I'll bet that this goes thru multiple 2D scanning arrays and they are tracking the velocity thru. Has to be tied in quite tight, like with processor scan times. Probably could get into a window of a millimeter or so if conditions are right, and the programmer knew what the hell he's doing. Scanning Arrays work the best.

Ahhh, Lasers. Big name dropping word. I have a Laser, so I'm cool, right?

These are retro devices, meaning that you are going to shoot a beam at something and it has to reflect back to the pickup to Triangulate it's distance for accuracy, or you do time of flight. Not nearly as accurate as people are led to believe.

Non-contact measurement still has a ways to go. Some of the recent laser products are pretty cool tho. Not color blind, and don't have to hit the object dead square.

Yep, gas prices.

Have a project in Pueblo at a drill pipe mill that was officially put on hold until gas prices bleed your wallet again.

Project at a pipe mill in KY that was supposed to be up and running quite some time ago, well, they filed bankruptcy.

Holding pretty steady at about $2.50/gal.

The US rig count is down 60% from where it was just a few months ago. All because of OPEC not wanting to lose market share. It is a war on America. Our oil technology requires oil prices to be @ or above $75.00 per bbl for our Shale oil to be marketable. Opec continues to flood the market with oil.
One of our US Presidents called it trickle down economics where money is dispersed through jobs. So when oil prices drop, and markets collapse , it trickles down through lose of jobs and company Bankruptcy. Steal mills, Real estate, Banks etc. We all like lower gas prices but like I said OPEC is Warring against America. Period !!

Tracy

Just filled up my 2006 1500 hemi yesterday.... well $100 didn't fill her at $112.5 per L thats like $4.50 per gallon. Lucky if that lasts the week.

Cheers Don.

Don, like I said we all like cheaper gas, it just needs to be drilled here including Canada and not in the Middle East where it supports the Radical Muslims. there are many ways to war on a nation.

Tracy

Tracy, you are correct - mostly…..
The “middle easterners” have “lifting cost”, or as others call “production cost of somewhere around $5 bucks a barrel.
Athabasca Canadian Oil Sands are so high cost per barrrel as well as N.D Bakken shale companies, they cannot compete.

On the other hand, the Texas Permian Basin Sprayberry/Wolfcamp production lifting costs are around $8-9 bucks a barrel and those old wells hold “HBP” acreage millions of acres so no lease acquisition costs - We have advanced technology that allows us to drill multiple wells with one a rig on one pad site.
This thing is not over - you know all this stuff but others might be interested.

Yes, I am very familiar with this stuff - I was Division Geophysicist for a Major Oil Company in Midland at one time and assignment in many of the other Oil Provinces.

It ain’t over ‘til it’s over.
Cheers,
George

Thanks for your information here George. I posted my remarks because some can not see the forest for the trees. I am tired of seeing jobs lost and wars fought over oil and oil pricing. America needs to wake up. I am on a rant today George, as u might see from other post here lol

Tracy

I am with you all the way Tracy!
Just pointing out that things are different this go-round.

George

George I lived in midland in the 70's. Sometimes we would travel 4 hr's and drag a boat just to get to a lake. I herd once that there were more boats in Midland per person over any other city in Texas. It was all beach out there till u got to the water. We might know some of the same people from there. The world is smaller than we think

Tracy

What we need is more pipe lines that we can run up graded fuel through. What we have seen over the last few years is oil and fuel run on rail as much as they can pull. We have seen the pressures on the pipe lines we do have doubled because this is the only way to get more product through the same size line.

Then we have the rail cars accidents because of the larger volume of cars hauling fuel and oil. And then we have these pipe lines popping leaks because of the extra pressures and an old line with weak spots.

Here in Ontario they trying double the one main line pressure but spend the last four years looking for bad spots with an xray pig with still running fuel through it. Some good pay welding on a line that is full of bunker oil.

In stead of building more pipe lines they find its easier to raise the price to lower demand and curb use rather than get more volume. Our government is fine with this because the tax on fuel is a %.

Cheers Don.

I will agree with the pipelines needing to be increased and improved. I would like to see us move to natural gas for transportation needs. It is better for the environment and for the engines (giving a longer life span) and we have the Mother Load when it comes to natural gas. It seams to be moving that way but not moving fast enough. We could get away from supporting the Muslim rebels on the middle east. I have a natural gas driven GMC pickup and it runs great. Todays pricing is @ or around 50 cents per gallon cheaper than gasoline and I should get a longer engine life. That is a win win.

Tracy

Tracy, living in Midland in the early sixties was an oxymoron..
Boom or Bust - half the time half of the geologists were selling washing machines at Sears...
Fantastic blue quail hunting -

Thank goodness for Dennis Phelps, Henry Oil, Slick water frack, the Sprayberry, Upper/Middle/Lower Wolfcamp the Cline, Horizontal Drilling, etal.

http://www.texasmonthly.com/story/’s-oil-folks


Lance

George, I learned about hunting quail hunting when I moved to Snyder and then moving to Midland, where I started hunting with dogs. I learned how to train pointers and retrievers there. I loved that time in my life hunting Bobs and Blues over English Pointers. I was twice offered $3,500.00 for one of the dogs I trained. That was a lot of money back then. But I would not have taken $35,000.00 for her. It is said you will only have one good quail dog out of 50 trained. Ha, so true. I also trained a retriever that was half lab and half Golden, and she would get anything u would shoot. Squirrels to Pheasants to Quail. Oh , the hunting stories I could tell of bird hunting. Hunting all over Texas and Oklahoma for Quail. I have thought of training dogs again, but I would have trouble walking all those miles in the thorns and terrain, it kinda of sucks growing older and not being able to walk 6 + miles per day hunting behind good Quail Dogs. George, thanks for reminding me of the memories with the Blues and Bob's

Tracy

Tracy, you also brought back a lot of memories ..due to my responsibility of supervising seismic crews I knew a number of ranchers....hunting privaledges galore - most would just say - "don't shoot my house birds"...
George

I have an office up in Alberta, Canada.

They had an awesome year in 2014.

This year......it's come to a grinding halt. Little to no revenue.

Sad thing about most folks up there that make big bucks in the oil fields....they don't have a pot to piss in at the end of the day. When it's booming, each guy must have several trucks/cars, dirt bikes, quads, RV's, 5th Wheels, and snow mobiles, ALL ON CREDIT.

When it goes bust, bankruptcy is just around the corner for these folks.

On Rt. 2, near Red Deer, between Calgary and Edmonton, you'd be shocked at the number of huge RV sales operations.

About like West Texas. Lots of $70,000 pickups being hidden from the repo guy.

George I have been following this "oil thing" pretty closely but I am not educataed on the subject like you are. Are you saying we may be able to compete with them and they can't completely run us out?

wbuff,
I can only give you my opinion, but I have been in this business for a long time.

Don’t hold me to my dates - fuzzy brain -…
Early 1970’s I attended a macro economics course by a SMU prof who later became Under Secretatery of Energy.
Oil was about $6/barrel IIRC, and he predicted the Saudis would drop the price of oil and put the US O&G industry out of business - they did and imposed THE embargo that was the predecessor of OPEC.

This is the third time, if memory serves me correctly, that we have become a threat due to our advanced O&G recovery technology.
They lead in “lifting costs, but we lead in technology.

But here is where it gets cmplicated, geopolitics rears it’s ugly head and we can’t go there,but you see that it complicates who controls the market.

Many professionals including myself, believe Permian Basin of Texas has more unrecovered hydrocarbons than Saudi Arabia, but Iran is their strongest competitor, if you see where I am going with this.

Hope this helps,
George

George, I have been in the oil and Gas business going on 40 yr's. And like you I experienced all of the problems we have had with the Middle East. For those that don't remember, they actually did an embargo against us and gas lines went for blocks trying to get gasoline for the family cars. We geared up here and they then shut us down with dropping oil prices and the North American oil industry collapsed, that was in the mid 1980's. it has taken us 30 years to get back to where we were 6 months ago and Again the Middle East or Opec flooded the market and again has attack our Oil and Gas industry. These are the same people that snubbed the President this week and the same ones who will not stop to get the Bomb and have said they will End America. So when are we going to get off their game and Run our game. I know for a fact, that the majority of Oil and Gas Companies are not greedy and they don't like being put in that category. Like many companies they want to make a profit and supply jobs. Just like alot of here in America.

Maybe I should just talk ponds and fish.

Tracy

Regular gas was over $3.00 per gallon this summer. Today, $1.88 and dropping.

I noticed $1.99 here today.

I bought some for $1.76. It is probably too low for an overall healthy small gas production competition.

I paid $1.57 South of Dallas(Terrell) yesterday.

D

UPS is still raising their rates "due to increased fuel costs." And they sent me a bill for $1.51 saying my standard 26 X 10 X 10 box was an inch larger than 10 inches. Sure it was...

Saw gas the other day for $1.67.

Sure wish they'd get some serious competition instead of gouging small business owners.

That stinks. UPS, FedEx, and other large consumers of gas generally contract their gas months ahead so they can keep rates relatively stable and avoid losing money if gas spikes up. Good plan if gas prices are expected to climb but not so good in prices fall like they are now.

Gas drops to $0.77/gal in Michigan.

http://247wallst.com/investing/2016/01/17/gas-drops-to-77-cents-in-michigan/

Wow! It's still $1.75 around here. And to think its refined down south and gas is cheaper up north..... Just saying

Indiana better get with the program then. Diesel is still around $2/gallon and gas is still $1.59/$1.69.

With oil as low as it is, I'd have to moderate myself if I say any more.....

I believe that .77 gas is a one off deal, not a general trend.

But, but, UPS is still charging fuel surcharges!


Must be nice to be one of only two major domestic shippers in the country that can charge whatever they want. The post office doesn't count as they are hamstringed by congress.

I gave a rep of UPS an earful the other day. Boy girl had a bad day. They charged me $14.00 pick up fee for a shipment that only cost $20.00! And to top it off they were frozen fish that sat at that notorius Chicago hub for two days!

Fortunately they were well insulated and it was cold from here to North Dakota.

Gonna invest in a dry ice machine. The nearest dry ice is 4O miles away.

I paid $1.85 for Diesel a couple of weeks back in SE Texas (Polk Cty.)...as far as the fuel surcharges go, companies are not giving that back....it's a hard thing to swallow sometimes...

How about 47 cents a gallon in Michigan?

http://abcnews.go.com/US/michigan-gas-station-hits-47-cents-price-war/story?id=36358859

...too much more of this, and the last one to leave Houston, will have to turn off the lights. I've seen it bad in 1986, but I never thought we'd see this kind of dilemma in our industry again. In '86 the price of oil went from $30 - down to $9/bbl. down 70% in value. Now, we see the price of oil at $110 and dip down below $30/bbl. last week.

It feels good at the pump. But the layoffs really hurt.

So true Dave. Hate to see anybody out of work.

What happens when Iran goes full bore?

Here in Shreveport/Bossier gas is $1.49 gallon. Some places as low as $1.44. Diesel around $1.75 - 1.80.

Maybe it's the taxes.

I paid $1.46 this last week in Greenville TX. Best part is I finally found an oil place in Emory that sells 100% gas for 30 cents a gallon more than the going ethanol mix prices. Much better deal than I had in the past.

Cecil,
Some of the "experts" claim that the current price of oil has already factored in the future infusion of Iranian oil but I think it could get worse.

Last night I noticed E-85 is actually more expensive than the good stuff by .25 per gallon here. I expect that will create a surplus and trickle down in the corn market?

Bill,
I understand that if your vehicle is not specified for it, that E85 will turn the elastomer products in your carburetor to smudgy gum. My mechanic has been fighting this issue with vehicles for well over a decade now. He says don't burn that mess in anything you own....long term affects are not worth it....

I can't use it in my vehicles now. I used to own an Explorer that was equipped to burn either fuel. I still watch the price though out of interest. I always got better mileage out of the real stuff but when E-85 was a lot cheaper I burned that and saved a little.