After meeting with my dirt contractor yesterday, I will be digging a small pond to use for catching water from the run off (a watershed pond) and adding fishes for my LMB pond. I am hoping to use the fish as fish food for my lmb as they grow bigger and to use the watershed pond to pump into the big pond to build water volume in the bigger pond as summer takes it away through evaporation and through drought times. I will be using a pump to move the water to the big pond. What is a good size pond for a project like this. I think 6 foot will be the deepest and I plan on making the bottom look like a painters roller pan might look. It will be located next to the big pond and should collect a lot of water run off that now just runs off to a bayou. I am thinking of stocking with CNBG and maybe some GSH and growing them through feeding.

Thanks

Tracy

I think I'd look for about 1/4 acre.

Hey Tracy,

FWIW if I understand what you are doing correctly, it is a pretty complex question. IMO I would size the new small pond based on how much water you will need to supplement the water in your large pond. I would consider that the little pond is also being used to raise forage so I would not want to pump it lower than I need to maintain my forage fish. I would also consider that if I lose water to evaporation in my main pond, my forage pond will also be dropping. If what I have said is correct, IMHO that small forage pond will need to be pretty big. For example, in rough numbers, if your main pond is 1 acre and you want to raise the level 1 foot, your small pond needs to hold 1 acre foot of water in excess of what you need to maintain your forage fish and still accommodate evaporation.

Just my 2 cents

Bill D.

I have been thinking about this today. I guess a simpler way to put my thoughts....If you have a 1 acre pond and want to raise it 1 foot, your forage pond will need to be 1 acre if you are willing to let it drop 1 foot when you raise the main pond, 1/2 acre if you are willing to let the forage pond drop 2 feet, 1/3 acre if you are willing to drop it 3 feet, etc.

What you have in mind, and what I call my "forage pond" or my "grow-out pond" may be very different.

My grow-out/forage pond started as a settling pond for settling debris and leaves from water leaving my upper pond on its way to my lower pond. I also have several smaller similar tiny ponds for each of my main fishing ponds.

The pond I refer to as my forage/grow-out pond is tear-drop shaped. It is about 25 feet wide at the "dam" and drain. It is rather shallow and only about 4 feet wide where most of the water enters. It holds about 4 feet of water at the deep end when at full pool. It is usually at full pool from sometime in October to sometime in June.

From about the end of June until about the end of September (unless we have a tropical storm or hurricane) it has about 2-1/2 to 3-1/2 feet of water. I clean out the leaves and debris every year about this time with my back hoe. It is scheduled to get cleaned out next week. I relocate the fish that are in it, to a different forage pond so they don't die because of all the suspended detritus from the excavation. Each time I clean it, I expand it a little more.

Currently this pond has a pretty good crop of fathead minnows and a number of growing redear sunfish in the 3-4 inch range. I transferred about half of the RES to my main pond several weeks ago when a group was about 3-4 inches in length.

At my mountain location, we get a fair amount of winter snow and regular rains even during the dry summer season. I've found this to be a really good size and depth for a grow-out and forage pond.

I have a number of ways to harvest it. Usually I lower it to a maximum of about 30 inches of water. I've found that the most effective collector is a one-person 4'W x 3'H seine. I can sweep from the wider and deeper end to the shallow and narrow upper end and get most of what lives in this small pond.

I realize this certainly is not perfect for everyone. It is one more idea. It works very well for me.

Ken

Tracy, I went with 1/4 acre pond, max 8 foot depth, as grow out water for my main BOW, a 7 acre pond. Like you, I intend to pump water in it, but fortunately it is close enough to main BOW to simply drain the contents into it when desired.

Based on what Bob Lusk said, this is about right size for what I want to do, which is raise CNBG or tilapia to feed LMB in main pond. I went a little deep to minimize losses to cormorants, herons, raccoons, etc.

Bob did tell me that there is an inherent difficulty here: BG spawn best in 2 feet or less, but this shallow means weed problems. Still haven't figured that one out, guess I'll put down landscape cloth then pebbles to reduce vegetation.

You have probably already seen this thread, but in cash you have not or forgot about it, it has a lot of links about specialty ponds that you might get some ideas from.

Links to specialty ponds

Thanks guys, and snrub thanks for the suggested post. I have read through this site forward and backward several times I just have CRS disease. I know several here (like yourself) have forage and or grow out ponds and I just wondering what size pond you guys thought would work. The planned area of the pond receives much more runoff than my bigger 3.5 acre pond. And so I was thinking I might be able to harvest and transfer some 8 to 10" cnbg yearly along with most of the water the pond would catch. We usually receive good rainfall here in the fall and spring.
PS, when I built the big pond it caused a back up of water in about 10 acres of lowland next to the pond, so I was also wanting to eliminate what has become a swamp area, I thought I might trap this water in a grow out pond.

Tracy

Tracy, you change the initials of CRS to DD disease.

I have the same problem with CRS.

I have 3 ponds that could be considered as creating forage. One about 20x40 feet, one about 1/20 acre and one 1/10th. Having some problems in my 1/20 acre pond. Not sure what it is yet.

I personally like the 1/10 acre pond best. It is big enough to grow some decent size fish, yet still small enough that pumping it down and seining would not b e too hard. But have only had these ponds 1 to three years so not much experience yet.

Tracy, I've had a 1/4 acre brood/growout pond for over 3 years now, and have had tremendous production from it. I can't comment on the size, but here's my general thoughts about the pond itself.

If your big pond and this new one are at the same altitude, the biggest pain is going to be getting the fish out, so that would be one of my biggest design concerns. A paint roller tray design is basically what I did, and I had a net made that will cover bank to bank, and drag the bottom at full pool. Smaller nets mean more pulls, more trudging through the mud, and that means more work. If you look at most production ponds, they're shaped similar to a shoe box, and that allows a single straight pull. Once they're trapped at one end, you can always use a smaller minnow net to pull smaller workable batches of fish. I learned this the hard way.

Bumping it up against the big pond does make water level easier to control also. Raising and lowering the brood/growout pond is very easy, and a 2"-3" pump will make fast work of that. Since I use Honda powered pumps, and they really like to be level because of the low oil sensor, I just built a small platform so the pump is always dry, always level, and out of the mud.



Now Tracy, you're well on your way to brood/growout pond addiction. Snrub will tell ya', they're just too much fun. I actually bought this spool of Olympic lane markers on a stainless steel dolly for $100 after no bids at the monthly equipment auction. I see a blocking net in that spool's future.



Yeah, I'm addicted.

Hope this helped, Al

Good stuff here. Question I understand the thought of the paint roller style bottom for ponds that can be lowered or emptied into the big pond. But what about earth dug ponds wouldn't the flat bottom work better? Just curious on the thoughts of others

Snakebite IMHO, the paint roller type is more drought friendly. I've drained that pond, and seen old CNBG beds as deep as 6', and this year's (with all the rain we had this spring) less than a 1" from the surface. I may be overthinking it, but I want the fish to select their own spawning location, and not have the pond dictate it.

If a constant source of water was available, the flat bottom would sure work nice though.

Good thread.

All of my ponds are within a couple feet on being at the same level at full pool. Teejae57 will tell you to make it so you can drain the pond out the bottom. Well that works great if your pond is on the side of a hill like his forage pond is. Does not work for us flatlanders.

My 1/10 acre pond is 8' deep,rectangular, and shaped like a paint roller pan. It has a flat bottom. Have never pumped it out and seined it, but built it so I could if I ever wanted. Pictures of it are in my thread titled sediment pond.

I'm actually getting a lot more forage production out of this pond I built for sediment purposes than my forage pond. Not sure what is going on there but I have to stay home long enough to find out (motorcycle keeps calling my name and begging me to go). And that problem is a subject for another thread.

Snrub, that's it.

I'm like you on TJ's deal. I bookmarked and digested that thread, and even got to see it IRL, but my land's just too flat. Just pulling a gate valve would sure be nice.

Yes, I got to see TJ's place first hand too. There is a big farm show called Husker Harvest Days every year near Grand Island and when I was up there for it TJ invited me to see his place. He has a great setup with his ponds. Producing some fantastic fish too.

Thanks guys and Al we seam to think along the same lines but you are steps and steps ahead of me, but I am trying to catch up. Honda pump, got one, great pump. I also have a TS pump (champion I think) and have to replace it every couple of yrs, the Honda keeps going and going. It even ran one time after I added diesel(poured into 1/3rd tank of gasoline) in the fuel tank by mistake. it ran for about an hour, spewing blue smoke before I realized what I had done. Dave is that the DD u speak of?? I had to drain the oil after that mess up but it came right back on line with little effort. I hope to start next week on the small pond. And Guys, I already have an addiction to the big pond, so this will just feed my cravings even more. And snrub, I have been a bike rider all my life, have owned many of them. About 5 yr's ago, I woke up with chronic nerve pain in my back, it stopped my bike riding. And since I have always had fire growing out of my hair, I had to get some wind in it, I bought the 427 Corvette convertible. it has not replaced my bike riding desire, but it's close

Tracy

Tracy, I can't remember.

Three back operations over 6 years took me out for a while too. We only do about 300-350 miles a day and that is enough for me and wife both.

Get a Goldwing. It will ride as smooth as that Corvette. That is what we ride most of the time. In Seattle now on one.

Or a Can Am Spyder. Just bought one of those for wife. Have to pick it up in Texas on the 11th. Wind in your hair and sits like a motorcycle but drives more like a sports car. Rides very smooth. That is likely what I will go to when I can no longer hold the Goldwing up.

Gel seat pad makes all the difference in the world. I use one on the motorcycle, in the car on long trips, on any of the numerous tractors I drive, on the bulldozer, zero turn lawnmower............ Anyone with back problems needs a gell cushion. I think the one I have is 3/4". Wife sewed a nice zippered cover for it so the cover can come off and be washed. I'm not kidding. It makes all the difference in the world. Even in a good suspended air seat like our big tractors and semi's have, the gell seat takes out those little tiny jolts that hammer on your back all day. Your Corvette could definitely use it.

I was heavy into cars when I was a lot younger. Big F-body fan, Camaros and Firebirds. I must've owned a dozen or so here and there. I was lucky to have a father who appreciated such things, most of the time.

However I do recall eyeballing a '69 Stingray pretty hard for a few days, (this was back in the mid eighties), and when I finally got him over there to check it out, (just a kid, needed him to co-sign), he tilted that hood forward and there sat that beautiful 427....he just closed the hood, shook his head, and said "get back in the truck" He knew me pretty well.

No Corvette for me.

Tony, I've had pickups since 1967. They have always suited my life style better. But, being married with children, I have also had a common sense family car. Well, there have been a couple of motorcycles, both street bikes and dirt bikes, and dune buggies. I've also had 4 wheelers for the last 20 years.

The only real exception has been a bright red Corvette convertible that had been set up for racing. It was spooky fast and I don't remember the year model. I actually had to change the clutch because my ex Wife couldn't depress it. I bought it as an investment and, until the day I sold it, I never found a time that I wasn't re investing $ into it. The only fuel that it really appreciated was $$$$.

Well, come to think of it, there was an A Fuel dragster that we advertised as the worlds fastest Pontiac in the early 1960's. We used to do exhibition races in Texas and the Southeast USA. We were kids and Don Garlits used to bring us extra tires so we could run match races against him. Due to shoddy tracks of those days, those were mostly rigged deals and we flipped a coin to see who would win. And then were the girls that were racing fans.

Almost forgot the micro midget oval track days.

We once installed a drone airplane engine on a Cushman motor scooter. That thing blew parts everywhere when it came unwound in about 50 yards.

Thinking about it, I wonder how I lived to the age of 72.

All of those toys are now in my rear view mirror and now I'm just Grandpa and the Grandkids have no idea.

Editing: How did I get here from Tracy wanting to know about forage ponds? Must be Tony's fault.

I hear you Dave. These days the F-bodies have given way to pickup trucks and sport/crossover vehicles. And it's been that way for a good while now. I tell myself I will build one more car, when the time is right. Who knows.

Sorry Tracy.

Al, so you DID get that spool of floats!! Good!!

That dock looks familiar, although there's more pipe showing out of the water now.....

Yep, there is more pipe showing right now.

Currently, I have the brood pond water level pretty high. 25 of Overton's little cannibals are in there, and as soon as I see any large numbers of fry show up in the reeds or primrose, I'll drop the pond a couple of feet to remove their cover, and let them golden babies gorge. I've done this several times over the last year with CNBG and HSB, and the fry never show back up when the water level is raised back to full pool.

So why couldn't one make a grow out pond like longer but narrow?

Let say 6 or 8 feet wide by 100 feet long 4 feet deep?

I would think that would be real easy to catch fish out of when needed? Or would that not be big enough to let fish grow?

Just asking?

RC

When building forage or grow out ponds that are shallow one needs to consider how to deal with dense filamentous algae and rooted weeds that are prominent in shallow fertile waters. Cecil Baird has numerous issues removing his fish crop from weedy water.

So with that said if you went 8 feet wide and 50 plus feet long could you line it with a tarp? You can get tarps 12 feet wide by 50 feet long all day long at Wal-Mart if you wanted to go longer you could just overlap....

That would help keep the weeds out anyway I would think!

RC

Here's my thoughts I do like the idea of a 8' wide x 50' option. I think it would give ease of sampling stock and harvest would be very simple.

Cons: predators birds/mammals would have a better chance with so much banks to steal forage fish. If you are wanting to aerate it may need more since it's longer and not so circular. Would it freeze over more in the winter with shores being so close?

Good thoughts Snake!!

Here in Arkansas don't have to worry to much about the froze over issue much. I would put a small air setup in it just to keep water from freezing in winter in case. With it being smaller it could freeze over faster like you said even here it gets cold for a few days at a time by cold I mean 5 or 6 degrees. But it don't last long. Maybe during winter try to minimize use??

I don't know....

RC

Going narrow and long is great, but you also have to look at the soil and see what slope that will allow you to have. 8' wide, 2:1 slope will only allow you to have 2' of water depth, right?

What I call my pre-sediment pond is approximately 20x40'. I dug it out with a D6N XL dozer but finished it with the backhoe due to there are limitations of what the dozer will get in and out of and still have it deep enough. I ended up some where around 6'+ deep.

I would think 8' wide would be hard to get any depth. I have not tried to seine this pond but may try it in a few weeks. Will pump it down then seine........ hopefully...... if I can rope a couple of grandsons for help.

I don't have a lot of experience with forage ponds yet, but from the looks of it to me, I think it would be hard to get a lot of production out of something much smaller than my 20x40'. I could be wrong though.

RC, I have had a similar thought when considering this upcoming grow out forage pond. But I was thinking 15 to 25' wide and maybe 60 to 80' or maybe 100' long, (I am trying to catch the most water run off to keep the small pond full)and at the same time eliminate the swamp area I created when I built the big pond. If I dig it long, running it horizontal to the higher ground, so it might catch 3 small drains coming from higher ground. Digging it with an excavator and adjusting depths to look a painters roller pan. With steep banks on 3 sides, I think I can limit what vegetation grows along the shallows and maybe make it an easy seine. Wish I could get flowlines from forage pond to feed bigger pond to work but I have to control spending money on ponds somewhere My dirt contractor is running a couple of weeks late already and if he does not get here before fall rains it may not get done for a while. It might be too wet and would tear up to much land.

Tracy

Tracy