Hey guys,
I have been doing some research on a minnow species that is common in my area, the brassy minnow. I have a bridge nearby where I can take a small nt and catch literally hundreds of them. They pile up in a small backwater area under the bridge and it's almost like scooping them directly out of a livewell. Has anyone ever used these minnows in a pond? I ask because the Iowa DNR says they associate closely with the fathead minnow.
Iowa DNR: Brassy Minnow

I wonder how tolerant they are of pH changes? I see where they prefer acid water. But, from what I've read they seen to do OK in ponds and Brook Trout love them. They're sold as bait too.

I don't have any experience with brassy minnows as they are not found in the areas I have lived or visit family... From reading about them, they sound like they would adapt to pond life but prefer low gradient streams. Other links indicate they handle predation poorly which is similar to the fathead minnow. I am not sure if they would have any advantage of the fathead minnow. If you can get a large number of them for free by collecting them you can certainly take advantage of it. Be careful though, wild caught fish often carry disease and parasites and you don't want to introduce those into your pond...

That is why I was interested in them...the free aspect. It's also kind of fun to collect them. I am experimenting with them in a small pond near my house to see if they take on to pond life well. The predator numbers in the pond are very low and should have very little effect on the minnow population so I could see how they adapted to pond living. I added about 200 1-2" fish this weekend alng with a few bigger "brood fish." Hopefully, they take to the pond environment well.

I have been experimenting with several species from the wild. There are many more forage fish than just fatheads and golden shiners. The brassy minnow seems to be more of a stream fish but a couple sources I read said they will adapt to pond life... I couldn't find any info on their spawning habits. That is usually the limiting factor for most forage fish in ponds, a lack of suitable spawning requirements. Are you sure the species you are catching is the brassy minnow? There are several other more common species that look similar to them in Iowa? Could you take a picture of a few and post them on here? I'd love to see some!

Also, another poster on here Adirondack Pond would probably be interested in brassy minnows. His pond is highly acidic and if this species is acid tolerant, it may be just the ticket. I see their native range includes northern NY...

Brassy minnows typically spawn in shallow water among vegetation scattering eggs on leaves and stems. Maximum length is 3.75" and life span is 4 yrs if they are not eaten first. Thye should do well in a pond if vegetation is plentiful. Good forage fish with a similar top end size the the fathead.
A picture of some would nice to see. Post it or email it.

I can't say that I am 100 percent sure that they are Brassy Minnows, but thats what they looked like to me. I will post some pictures of the little guys later this week when I get a chance to go get some.

Looking forward to seeing the pics...

I got stuck playing some golf after work today but I'll get some tomorrow.

They look a LOT like FHM to me.



Here are some fatter ones:

That is the problem with most minnow species, they all look VERY much alike to the untrained eye. Creek chubs, bluntnose minnows, spottail shiners all have the dark over light color scheme and then have a dark line running down their side. Usually its mouth shape and form, slight color differences and then when it really comes down to it, scale counts and other more scientific methods... Paintings when it comes to minnow species often just don't hack it IMO. Photographs are of a much higher value.

Hey guys, here are some pics of the minnows. I just had my phone so they aren't real good quality. I will get some better ones with a camera tomorrow afternoon.

Bridge where I catch them. Small backwater next to the abutment on the right.
The only bigger one I caught. About 2 1/2 inches. Has a little bit more of the brassy tint which led me to believe Brassy Minnow.

Nose of the bigger one.

Hope you can get some kind of idea.

I noticed they seemed to have a little bit longer nose than the Brassy minnow pictures above.

First fish that comes to mind is a blacknose dace... But the picture quality of the first one isn't the best. Definitely interested in more pictures of a full fish if possible. If it is what I think it is and it is a blacknose dace, they can adapt to pond life but will not reproduce without a source of running water to spawn.

http://www.iowadnr.gov/fish/iafish/bkd-card.html

You mention the bigger on had a brassy tint. That is most likely a male. The western subspecies of blacknose daces gets a brassy colored side during the spawning season which most likely just ended in your part of Iowa. Blacknose daces are VERY common just about everywhere I have ever collected in small to medium size streams.

Here is a photo of the eastern subspecies. The coloration is slightly different from the western, but should still give you a good idea...

I think you may be right. I'll get some better pictures, hopefully tomorrow. I also caught a couple other species I am not sure of. One had more of a shiner coloring but was shaped more like the brassy minnows above and one was some type of dace but I wasn't sure of specific species It was more of a dark gray color. I'll try to get one of each of those next time also and see if you can help me identify them. I had not previously collected them from that area so they may not be real common in that stream. Also, do you know of a minnow that gets a red belley (males) during the spawn? They were a fairly bright colored species shaped kinda like some type of Dace or similiar fish.

Last one might be a red belly dace, but the females did not have red bellies. I milked a few with red and a few without and they were definitely male with female w/o.

Edit: Looking back at the original minnow. I didn't realize that the lateral line went all the way to the snout. I would say definitely not Brassy Minnow. I guess this means I will have to hunt for some now that I have noticed that they adapt to ponds to some degree. I'll still get more pics to make sure.

Yeah, take photos of what ever species you catch and I or others who are good with fish ID will help you out. There are several species that work great as forage for ponds. Most species caught in streams can survive in ponds, they just cannot reproduce. A few are equally happy in ponds as they are in streams...

Ever tried to simulate a stream environment in part of your pond to see if the stream minnows reproduce? I ask because I know of a pond nearby that recieves drainage from a large and has an almost constant flow in the spring. This spring, I witnessed several minnows going through the spawning motions where the drainage entered into the pond (extremely sandy bottom). I have been toyin with this idea or a while but I don't know what type of velocity is needed for minnow species to spawn. I saw a solar powered pump on Ebay that would make a cool set up, but the highest water velocity I could see getting is around .2 mph. I assume that is too low. This question is for anyone, I just like bouncing potential waste-of-time ideas off people.

I have done that with koi/goldfish ponds. I have successfully spawned several species of "stream" fish using that method. It was be interested to try that with a larger earthen fishing pond. Perhaps build a stream using a pond liner and then cover it with rocks of various sizes and sand. Run a large pump that pumps water from the pond to the top of say a 20 to 30 feet "stream". Fish needing that type of habitat to spawn could ascend the man made "stream" to spawn and then head back to the pond when done. The stream could be run from ice out to ice up and the pump turned off during the cold months...

I was thinking along the same lines. The problem would be cost. I have no idea what a pump with enough get-up-and-go to pump water to the beginning of the "stream" and still have some good flow behind it would cost.

I'm wondering what kind of current flow a trolling motor hooked to a 75-100w solar panel would generate.

A $1000 pump would give your a decent enough flow to provide a pretty decent size stream and flow volume.

I like where the trolling motor idea is going....what did you have in mind for a set up?

A couple more minnows to identify if anyone has time. Got another picture of the Blacknose Dace (nearly positive you were right on that, CJ). For some reason, the picture didn't turn out very well. I took about 6 of them and none turned out. Is the Blacknose Dace related to Chuck Norris/GSF?

oops...forgot the links.

Unknown 1: Possibly a bluntnose minnow?
Unknown Minnow 1
1 Again

Unknown 2:
Unknown Minnow 2

And the apparently impossible to photograph Blacknose Dace:
BND

Unknown Minnow 1: Is the beloved bluntnose minnow. Definitely an excellent addition to your pond. They are closely related to the FHM. I think they are a bit more predation tolerant. The one in this picture is a breeding male, hence the darker color and tubercles on the head. Check the top of the back just behind the head... You should see a light to medium gray patch there. That is what the male uses to clean and care for the eggs which are laid on the underside of rocks, logs etc...

Unknown Minnow 2:Johnny darter, which is actually not a minnow but in the same family as perch and walleye only it maxes out in size of about 3". They also can survive and reproduce in ponds.

BND:From that picture I would again say it is a blacknose dace...

Collect as many of the bluntnose minnows as you can. They are a great forage fish! The darters can be kept as well. Smallies love to eat them in rivers and I am sure would love to eat them in a pond as well. I just collected about 30 tessellated darters which are pretty much the eastern relative of the Johnny darter, they look exactly alike almost and put them in my forage pond today along with some banded killies.

I was wondering if the smaller guy was some type of Darter. I couldn't decide if that's what he was or a small Dace species. My untrained eye saw the head of a Dace and the body of a Darter. What was the minnow ID book you recommended again? I found that Bluntnose minnow under an overhanging rock in the water, possible nest site?

Definitely possible... I seem to catch about 5 adult females for every adult male BNM. I put a number of broken up cinder blocks in my pond which the BNM love to spawn on.

Petersen's Field Guide to North American Fish is a great field guide. Although does not contain photos but rather sketches and paintings, it is still a fine field guide. Make sure you read the beginning section that guides you on how to use the field guide. It helps a beginner out greatly! Some on-line guides that are good which contain photos:

Virginia Link
Tennessee Link
Georgia Link
Ohio Link

If there was any doubt, IMO CJBS has those fish names correct. Although the blacknose dace is probably correct, but it could be questioned due to the fuzzy picture. A clearer picture would aleviate doubt. Holding the camera a 1/2"-1" further away would maximize the close focus ability of your particular camera. Then just crop the picture to enlarge the image.

Thanx for the tip BC, I'll remember that next time I'm out and about. I'm pretty sure CJ is correct on the Blacknose Dace. Question for anyone: When you set slow moving or non moving water with a minnow trap, do you bait or try and find a natural funnel? If you use bait, what do you use?

You can use either method. The funnel method is usually fest or famine in my experience. When you hit the jackpot though, you hit it! Bait is a matter of what you are trying to catch. But for your average minnow species like BNM, I like to use cheap koi pellets or dry dog food. Put them in a mesh bag so they don't float away or come to the wire of the trap and allow fish to feed without entering. You can often catch a large number of minnows if left out for a day or so... Many times it is the only method to use in some places because they are so thick with rocks, logs or vegetation making the use of a net impossible.

That was the exact reason I need to use a trap. I found a bridge today that had a large population of some 3-5" minnow (just looked from the bridge so I have no idea what kind) that were schooled up in a large pool in the creek. The only problem is that the pool was filled with pieces of an old bridge pier. I'll try out one of the two baits you recommended, thanks.

lmoore, I would like to add to what CJ recommended, beef liver has worked well for me in fish traps.

Thanks AP, maybe I'll put 3 traps out net to each other with each of the baits reccomended in each one. If try that, I'll let you guys know ow it turns out.

Thanks AP, maybe I'll put 3 traps out net to each other with each of the baits reccomended in each one. If try that, I'll let you guys know ow it turns out.

Brassy Minnows might even be beneficial in a pond. The Brassy Minnow "is primarily a plant eater, feeding heavily on algae" (from http://pond.dnr.cornell.edu/nyfish/Cyprinidae/brassy_minnow.html)

Mimic Shiners might be worth a look, too, since "Entomostracans, algae and other plant debris, and midge adults and larvae are the most frequent food items" (from http://pond.dnr.cornell.edu/nyfish/Cyprinidae/mimic_shiner.html)

Such small fish might not be the next tilapia, but if they are more vegetarian than other forage, I wonder if they wouldn't direct some biomass back toward the predators I love to catch...

I'm going to experiment some, when my pond is built...

Both species mentioned have very similar diets to FHM. The biggest challenge is keeping as self sustaining naturally reproducing population under bass predation...

I have never found mimic shiners to be common anywhere I have collected. I have only been able to collect a dozen or so at a time and I was never able to get a self sustaining population in any pond I have transplanted them in.