I am working on fish cage designs with AP Outdoors. They are a manufacturing company that makes a variety of outdoor products. I really like their Lunker Lodge and am in the process of designing various other fish cages with them for pond owners. Looking for ideas/designs to make the perfect pond cages, that can be reasonably shipped nationwide. If anyone, Pond Boss included, is interested in creating their own line of these cages with their names on them, let me know. NO MONEY to be invested, just engineering/designs/ideas/experience is what we are looking for.

I have tried many fish cages, including my own, and just am not happy with what is available and how long they last for. I want them to look good and last a long time.

Also cannot keep up with the demand for fish cages in my area. I dont have time or proper resources to make cages.

Moderator if this post is not appropriate, please remove or edit it.

I don't see any problem with the post. I do, however, think it would be a great idea to PM a couple of the regular forum members who have tons of experience with this sort of thing to get their immediate input.

Cody and Baird come to mind.

Please send any ideas that you wish directly to Nate by email or PM and make any arrangements (patent rights , naming rights or royalties etc)there also. Good luck Nate !! I bet this group has some ideas. I have one I will send. Nate check for a PM.

There might be an article coming up in Pond Boss on growing out largemouth bass in a cage. A little birdie told me so. Not definite though.

Bill Cody is our resident expert on cages. He has more experience than I, and has taught me all I know about raising fish in cages. Hell he's taught me just about everything! I would definitely P.M. him.

That said, if you guys want a good chuckle Bill and I are at friendly odds on which design is better; a square or rectangular cage which I prefer, or a round one which Bill prefers. He sent me a pic of his latest round prototype and I asked him if why he was raising fish in a garbage can. He was not a happy camper. I tried to smooth things over by saying my square cages were more like dumpsters and he calmed down a little. Then I tried to blame it on the wife's waste basket in her office as Bill's cage must have reminded me of that wastebasket.

Here's his latest cage. Tell me if it doesn't resemble my wife's waste basket in the office below. BTW Bill this is all in fun. So give it your best shot back at me!





Oh here's one of my giant 10 by 10 foot dumpster designs.

I think I notice a resemblance, Cecil. Your fish pen, OTOH, looks like it ought to have Wilson or Spaulding or whatever Tom Hanks called his volleyball attached to one corner.

That bad huh?

See guys what I have to put up with by trying to teach this "Baird guy" (aka a Dr Perca wanabe and sometimes as Heron Harasser) a few fishery things.

Is n8ly talking about fish cages or fish live boxes?. How many designs of fish raising cages can there be? The two basic cage designs for raising fish are cylindrical and cubical/boxy (Baird style). I'm not sure where the engineering comes in with this simple concept. Build it out of the correct materials and it will last many years. UV light is the most damaging foe of fish cages. I thought I covered this pretty well in my 3 articles in Pond Boss mag. Where were the articles deficient? I or someone else can write a 4th cage up date article. Has n8ly seen the articles in PB?

PS. CB1's wife's waste basket would not last long in the office at my place. I would use it to train small fingerlings to eat fish food. Perfect item for crowding and feed training several hundred 1/2"-3/4" fry.

I am talking about fish cages, live boxes, holding pens, bait boxes, etc. Pretty much anything that a pond owner might need for various applications. Many pond owners dont have the time, desire, or capability to make their own cages. And also they want them to look nice too, (no offense CB1, your dumpster cage is beautiful to me)

Bill, I have religiously read every article in pond boss for the last 2 years, and also have many issues from years past. I have learned a ton about raising fish in cages.

We are looking for designs and ideas to create a line of cages and holding pens that can be easily packaged, shipped, and assembled. Check out the lunker lodge to see what they have come up with so far for a holding pen.

ewest just sent over an AWESOME cage design. I would encourage him to share his idea. It is exactly the kind of design we are looking for.

N8tely, et al. With regard to design, as an old mechanical engineer I can get excited about these sort of questions! Fun thing to think about...

Have you identified the design goals beyond, I assume, cost of materials? Even with the rise in raw polymer materials this thing could be built pretty cheap. Is anybody going to try and make a bit of money with this?

1) Functionality. This is likely where Cecil's and Bill's designs speak to durability, size, accessability, etc.

2) Transportability. Size & weight. Clearly a collapsible design would be in everybody's interest. But then you have to design for...

3) Ease of assembly. The tie wraps used in both Cecil's and Bill's designs are relatively cumbersome, take a bit of time to assemble, and discourage quick break down during the off season. If you're designing the system, could a series of lightweight pins be used at the joints? Better yet, how about a snap system - as used in some children's lego-type toys where joints come together? I recently bought an outdoor shed made of synthetic polymer material and the whole thing just snapped together. No screws, bolts, etc. This also reduces part count.

4) Modularity. From Cecil's and Bill's discussion this is not a one-size-fits-all problem. But you'd like a one-size-fits-all solution, at least as much as possible. You should accommodate depth, length, width, size of mesh, etc. So could you build a simple 2x2' or 4x4' design that could be configured to any other compounded size?

5) Last, can it be accessorized! And that's where you make the money. I'm sorta joking here, but not much. Temp probes and displays. Lights. Easy access panels. Cameras. Whatever. Since I'm relatively new to this forum, I won't name the specific people that will buy this stuff... But you guys know who you are

Fun concept! If you describe the above to any of the manufacturing shops, I bet they'll have in-house people that could come up with some great concepts.

As for the material, I wonder if there is any option for algae-resistance. And is there a concern about adverse leeching of chemicals from any of the available materials?

NE M - Some good points in your message. Thanks for the ideas. I have a couple comments.
2. Collapsible design could be tricky. When one starts bending and folding the durable plastic netting, it tends to stay creased. This is not a problem if the cage remains together. But folding does tend to cause gaps in some instances at seams where fish can get out, esp if wire ties were use to affix seams. My first cage was a commerical collapsible design and it is not used anymore due to creases in netting. Creases want to cause folds in cage walls and misshapen cages. Fish cages are best if netting / walls stays flat and straight.

3. quick break down during the off season. If storage space is a problem, why not leave the cage together and leave it in the pond empty? It will then act as refuge areas for fish small enough to get inside the mesh.

NE M - In order to have no cost up front on the project, AP Outdoors would ultimately retain the rights to the products, BUT we would name them "Pond Boss Cages" (if pond boss likes the ideas) Then Pond Boss could advertise the cages and sell them online, or through the mag and AP would ship them directly to the customer. Advantages would be no cost at all to PB, no inventory to deal with, and more PB name recognition nationwide.

Other PB members (aquatic service providers, etc) could become dealers of the cages too, and sell them also.

The other option would be to come up with funding to pay for the engineering etc of the cages and then that party would have exclusive rights, patents, etc to the products. In the long run that would be the best option if the products are good, but then there is risk involved.

n8ly,

Have you determined if there is enough demand for these cages to make this project worthwhile? You do know they are sold by other companies right?

I have my doubts if there is enough demand for a ready made product since it's fairly easy to build them yourself.

I know they are sold by other companies, but they can definitely be made and marketed better. I have gotten some great ideas, I just posted them, but the post didnt go through, and I for some reason did not save it

I came to Pond Boss for help with this project because I knew that is how the very best product would be made. You just cannot beat the combination of diversity, knowledge, and experience. We will make the very best cages in the U.S.
Even Cecil and Bill will free up a few of their saturdays in the coming years because they couldn't afford to NOT purchase the best looking, working, fish raising holding keeping machines. (I would put a little emoticon here, but cant switch to full reply screen)

Please keep the awesome ideas coming!

I have to side with Bill on the round design vs, rectangular or square. Basing this strictly on cattle and horse pen design and elimination of "cornering" by dominant animals, this design lessens this effect in close confinement.
As far as a cage design, having a design that collapsed in on itself for shipping, using a chain link type cage material, would make shipping more convenient. Once in service, the cage would unfold into full length.

Putting together bits from here and there, here is some ideas so far:

Cages would consist of panels made from plastic netting. The panels could be lined with a rubber coated galvanized wire (ideas???) Then we need to think of a good way to link the panels together to create the cage (ideas???)

A few standard size panels (4'x4', 2x3, etc) and mesh sizes (1/4", 1/2", 1" etc) could be made for various applications and cage sizes. Even with the possibility of linking panels together to create somewhat of a circular cage instead of square or rectangle. Just would take a circular top and bottom panel.

Advantages of having panels would be obvious for shipping, but also the plastic netting wouldn't be folded, creased, etc. ALSO if a panel does get damaged over time, it could easily be replaced. Basically the cage should last forever?

Accessories could be dock attachments, floats, feed rings, and even an automatic fish feeder could be designed. It should be something very simple that just has to drop food in the cage (ideas???)

Still looking for more ideas and improvements.

As far as the market for these cages, I think that in the next few years, the demand for all pond products and supplies is going to be HUGE! Pond owners are a few years behind land owners(especially deer people) in management and maximizing resources, but they are catching up fast.

In illinois MOST pond owners and waterfront property owners do not have any fish cages at all. Unlike PB members, they do not know these products exist and especially dont know where to get them or how to make them. This may be hard to believe, but most pond owners in Illinois do not even know that Pond Boss exists!

Bait cages (super convenient), holding pens (for cleaning at a convenient time), cages to raise fish for stocking, and cages to raise fish for eating are becoming very popular products that pond owners across illinois and Im sure nationwide are going to utilize for ultimate enjoyment of their pond.

How many Pond Boss members have fish cages of some sort already?
If you dont, I bet you have plans for a fish cage or holding pen in the future. They are just too fun and convenient to not experiment with.

Brilliant idea with the feeder option!!

Even something that only held 8 ounces of pellets would be extremely beneficial for somebody who's away from the cages for a couple days at a time.

Aquatic Ecosystems makes a demand feeder with a little thingie that the fish nudges to dispense food. If I recall, they were pretty inexpensive.

Very, very interesting.

WHAT!

Elimination of "cornering" is why the cylindrical cage is often preferred. Over the full spectrum of fish species that can be raised in cages, cornering is less of a problem in cylindrical cages. Fish bunching up in corners tends to be stressful. It is important to reduce stress esp when fish are in crowded conditions.

The coated wire material was used a lot in early cage designs before plastic mesh was widely available. Wires coated and uncoated had too many problems compared to the more durable and easy to work with plastic mesh material. Thus plastic mesh is now used almost exclusively by the industry.

Well Bill you have me convinced. My next one is going to be a circular one. I would think I should be able to use a water line to make the hoops right? I want one that has a 7 foot diameter. How easy is it to clean the ciruclar ones vs. the square ones I use?

Cecil,
Not so fast. I'm not so sure that in your application of large cages that the cylinder is best. Rectangle may be best for large cages. The PVC frame helps provide support and rigidity. I think if one built a large cylinder it should have hoops on the top and bottom plus it would need side vertical ribs as in some of my cages in the PB articles. My smaller cylinder cages only have one hoop at the top. Side vertical ribs will hold the mesh in place while cleaning / brushing. Ribs would also help the cage stand upright without sagging out of the water.

Yes frequently the cylinder cages are made using hoops made from black poly pipe. If you want a stronger hoop you could do as I showed in my first Cage article of building an octagon with PVC and 45 degree elbows. Cost would be more than blk poly pipe.

Good points Bill but I would definitely have used a bottom hoop also. Forgot about the octogon design. I guess I shouldn't have given all my back issues away with hopes of getting new subscribers.

Actually the concept is simple. I think I will make an octagon. All I need are T's for top and bottom.

Any more ideas out there? I will be talking with the manufacturer on tuesday, jan 8th.

If you're going with something that utilizes a PVC frame I would not necessarily include the PVC unless they are joints that are hard to find locally such as three cornered joints for square and rectangular cages.

It's easy enough to buy the PVC and joints locally and follow directions.

I also don't glue my joints. They fit snugly enough by tapping them together with a rubber mallet and once the cage material is attached it seems to hold the cage together. Not gluing them could allow one to pull the joints apart and make them more easily stored. Cody says if the joints are not glued the cage could easily be rebuilt if necessary.

Make sure to check out Cecil's article in the new Pond Boss magazine.

Pretty cool, and nice pictures too.

I usually dont get my mag until a few weeks after most???

Nate, what exactly are we looking at in your avatar? Is it an attractant light in your pond?

"What EXACTLY are we looking at in your avatar?"

The pond is only about 20' across and I do have a green underwater light in there, the picture doesnt even come close to doing justice to how cool the mini pond looks at night. I have a small pump that pumps water from the big pond to the mini pond continuously, so it doesnt freeze in the winter or get stagnant in the summer. During the day you cant see in there at all, but at night the pond comes "alive" and you can see right down to the bottom super clearly. It is about 3.5' deep and the bottom is gravel. I have raised those fish in the pond all year and feed them pellets and fatheads. The trout and the muskie are still very aggressive this time of year, but the other fish dont move or eat much.

So you have muskie in the little pond? What are the overall dimensions and average depth of the min-pond. I'm about to build a new pond and would like any information you can get me on this little jewel.

Bruce,
we just dug the mini pond 2 years ago with a new holland tc 45d. It is 3.5' deep in the middle and basically just a circle about 20' across. we put a few wheel barrow loads of pea gravel and picked up about 30 bigger stones from a field and lined the bottom. we have a small pump maybe like 5 gallons a minute from our big pond into the little pond. the extra water flows down a small water fall down about a 40' creek and back into the big pond. we planted wildflowers around the edges and took native shoreline vegetation from the big pond, as well as some lily pads and arrowhead from a neighbors pond.

It took 3 guys about 4 hours to complete the project. Our original idea was to raise fathead minnows for bait, etc, but I get fathead minnows for under $3 per pound and we realized it was much more fun to watch and feed gamefish than it was to watch and feed fatheads. We also have a nice population of crayfish that have thrived in the mini pond, we brought them in from the creek.
Also if we shut the pump off, the pond will drain down most of the way in about 1 week.

Definitely is an awesome project that is very easy to do. I think the pump cost about $40, but the green light is what makes the pond AWESOME at night. It is pretty expensive though at $280, but very much worth every penny. I am going to try to get better pictures, next chance I get.

Cecil is there a limit on how large the bass can grow in a cage? Is the maximum attainable size of a bass due almost entirely to water quality and the amount of food that is available? Can you grow a ten pound bass in a cage?

James,

I can't answer that as I haven't done it. I've only grown them them from the fingerly size to about 11 inches give or take. It's possible but then again they may become terretorial once they reach sexual maturity. If so separating the sexes may help.

Someone will have to try it I guess. I may try it with smallmouth bass as I don't want free swimming bass in my male bluegill/female yellow perch pond. They are agressive at feeding time (at least the largemouths sure were) and push the gills and perch away from the feed.

I no longer grow out largemouth bass as I want to concentrate on more lucrative species and I only have so many ponds.

I recall some discussion in the past that feed-trained (and presumably only/primarily pellet-fed) LMB peaked out at a lower max weight than LMB with a good live forage base. I can't remember what the supposed pellet fed LMB plateau weight was, but this limit would certainly apply to LMB in a cage if it applied to any pellet-fed LMB at all.

This discussion was at least a year ago. The recent introduction of Purina Aquamax Largemouth probably would push any pellet-fed bass max weight upwards by providing a better, LMB-specific food source.

If I had to guess i would say using a large cage you could probably do it. But I have seen fighting between free roaming pellet fed largemouths during feeding time. There always seemed to be one or two individuals that chase around other bass and nipped at their fins.

Another thing to consider is with some species if the density is high enough in a cage you eliminate terretorial behavior as it would be too much trouble to set up shop in a part of the cage and call it your home turf. All in all domestication and eliminating fish naturally or by selection that don't do well in the cage at a large size, would probably achieve your goal. However I have to ask why you would want to raise large bass in a cage in a recreational pond?

Easier to catch?

I was just wondering out loud what was possible and exploring what could be accomplished with a cage. I want to build a cage this year but am still considering what to raise in it. I would like to have at least one bait cage if nothing else full of small bluegill and golden shiners so I don't have to catch them out of the pond each week to go fishing.

...why you would want to raise large bass in a cage in a recreational pond?

Cecil I'm still trying to raise large bass in any kind of environment. If Meadowlark can raise large Pacu in his recreational hot tube what's wrong with big bass in a cage?

One last question. Where can I get the mesh for the cage?

Stoney Creek Equipment

IIRC, they are PBMag advertisers.

Ah ha James! So you are thinking out of the box. I like that!

Shiners and small bluegill would not be a problem in a cage. As far as small bluegills make sure if they are not feed trained that they are at a good density to make them feed better. Bluegills feed better if there is more competition. Also grading your shiners or bluegill is very important.

You know I've had a few bass that were total welfare fat slobs that just hung around for the pellets. One was almost 6 lbs. but she was only 19 inches long! I don't believe she was that agressive at feeding time, she just inhaled pellet after pellet. It would have been interesting to put her in a cage and just keep feeding her like a penned pig to see how big she would get. At her relative weight she could have weighed 8 or more pounds by the time she reached 21 inches!

If you wanted to try something like that, do what I did in the article on caged bass in the recent issue, but keep about 10 of the largest ones in a 7 by 7 foot cage and monitor them. Make sure though they are all excactly the same size. If they don't seem to be getting along remove the most agressive fish or take thin them out.

Yeah Stoney Creek is where I get my mesh. Don't be afraid to ask for larger mesh then they have in the catalog. I just ordered a roll of 1 1/4 inch mesh from them that was not listed in the catalog.

Good luck!

The back Issue of PBoss Mag Mar-Apr 2007 "Caged Fish on a Small Scale, Part I" has a list of suppliers for plastic netting, cages, cage kits, feeders and two references for additional reading and information about cage culture. A place in Minnesota (Internet Inc) sells custom cut lengths of plastic netting for smaller applications. Often one does not want or need 50ft rolls. I prefer to buy just the lengths and sizes of mesh that I need for a particular project.

Bill,

I think Internet is Stoney Creek's supplier. At least the 1 1/4th inch mesh was from them. And I believe I have actually ordered pieces and not the whole roll but I could be wrong.

Cecil,
Internet will sell directly to the customer, thus netting may be cheaper from Internet compared to Stoney Ck. esp if you buy more netting than is needed and excess is never used. - Bill

Bill Cody,

This question is in reference to your article in the May/June 07 issue of PondBoss. On page 41, upper right paragraph beginning with optimal conditions, you mention "minimal turbulence".

Within the next week or two, weather permitting, I plan to muck out the stream that feeds my BG pond. The plan is to create a 20' x 30' x 8' mini pond. With the use of blocking nets, I would like to grow out some fathead minnows (free run) in addition to experimenting with raising some fish in cages. The plan calls for adding one 9" disk diffuser to foster water quality. The cage(s), will mirror the cylindrical ones shown in your articles. In your opinion, would the water movement caused by this diffuser exceed the limits of "minimal turbulence" creating a stress condition for the fish?

Russ

Russ, I'm glad to hear that someone reads the details. Do not put the diffuser directly under the cage. Place diffuser off to one side and that should be adequate. The turbulence referred to was primarily strong wave action or boat traffic on larger bodies of water such as lakes.

Russ,

I second that. A diffuser right under the cage will stress the fish.

Thank you gentlemen.

As I'm thinking about framing material, Bill/Cecil, I'd like to hear your opinion on using a hoola hoop for a top frame?


Russ

I don't see why not, but Bill is the one into the waste basket models. Mine are dumpsters.

Russ asks: "As I'm thinking about framing material, I'd like to hear your opinion on using a hoola hoop for a top frame?" The main problem that I foresee with the hoola hoop is its lack of rigidity. But, when one wraps the plasic mesh around the frame it does tend to strengthen the top frame. What you don't wnat to happen is when lifting or handling the cage with a weight load of fish or attached algae that the top frame bends or collapses due to weight stress. Then the top frame would have to be replaced. That is quite a bit of needless work to detach and re-attach a top frame. If you try it, let us know how well it works long term.

I would not be afraid to try a frame similar to Cecil's box frames made from PVC. It should be no problem for smaller cages (3 ft sq or less) using just one square or rectangular top frame and the rest of the cage of just plastic netting. If constant stand alone and smooth walls are desired then use 4 vertical legs; one on each corner. The last cage that I built, instead of wooden legs, I used legs made of 1" dia PVC. I like them. They are rigid and do not tend to float which often causes the cage to want to float sideways if the wooden legs are too big around. I can send photos if you want to see how I attached legs to the top frame and cage.

Because this mini pond will not have a dock, one thought I had involved using two sets of stacked pallets (coupled together) in conjunction with the cages. The stacked pallets will serve as nesting sites for the minnows with the added bonus of being an anchor point for the cages. Placing the pallet stacks close enough to shore, with the top pallets above the waterline, I was hoping to use a gangplank to access the cages for feeding and maintenance. With this setup either type cage, cylindrical or square, should work. In anycase, more food for thought.

Thanks

Russ

Bill or Cecil,

Given the fact that this will be my first attempt at cage raising BG (with thoughts of yellow perch later on), would you recommend 1/2" or 3/4" square mesh for cage material. Fish size will be 2-3".

Russ

Russ for that size fish I would not go bigger than 1/2. Most of the time I use 1/4 or 3/8 for 2-5 in BG.

Thank you sir.

Russ I think some 3" yellow perch will swim through 1/2" plastic mesh esp if they loose some body weight. I would trust 1/2" mesh to contain uniform sized 3"BG but not 2" BG which have a body height of 15mm +/-. 1/2" mesh on the diagonal runs about 15mm and assuming there are NO gaps in the cage seams. I have measured a skinny 3.1" YP as having a 14mm body height.

As always, thank you for the information Bill. I should be receiving an aquaculture sample pack(netting) next week. By the end of the week, I hope to have my order in. As an FYI, I measured up some of the neighbors kid's hoola hoops and they were a convenient 3' diameter. For top frames, I thought about doubling them up to add some rigidity that is until I found some 1" i.d. black plastic well pump pipe I had lying around. With a plastic barb fitting, the black pipe may become the top frame of choice. I will post the outcome.

Russ

Russ - the 1" dia black plastic pipe will provide a more rigid hoop than a hoola-hoop. At times getting 1" plastic pipe to form a 3ft dia circle without kinking can be a challenge. Warming it in the hot sunshine may help it bend to a small circle.

One man's meat is another man's poi, son.

I have a bunch of used 1" black plastic pipe in my back yard in 3' - 5' circles that I need to get straightened out!

I need to revisit this thread with a question for Bill, Cecil or anyone using cages. Some quick pond vitals.. 0.13 acres, avg depth 10' aerated nightly april/may to october, NY zone 5. Well water available.

Bill, in reference to your articles in PB magazine, I have yet to locate any polyethylene twine for stitching up my cages. All the local hardware/farm supply stores have polypropylene. Is there an equal substitute to polyethylene that anyone can recommend?

2nd question is one that pertains to water temps and lends itself to precaution on my part. I will be experimenting with raising YP in one cage, low density 20-25 fish, fingerlings. I do not have a temp profile for my pond in the 3-4' depth range (cages will be 3' diameter x 4' deep). Betting on a normal summer as far as temps go, can I expect to see a problem with water temps mid-summer that may result in stress/death for the YP? As noted above, I do have access to a well within 30' of where I intend to locate the cages.

All thoughts are appreciated.

Thanks

Russ

Russ - any of the poly twines should work okay. Cecil does not use twine he uses plastic wire ties to assemble cages. All the younger perch up until they are about 12"-14" seem to tolerate warm water (to 90F) well. Young YP 3"-8" long will or should eat well all summer long in cages, at least I never had a problem with mine. It is just the biggest ones that don't tolerate temps above 82-88F real well. Send me a PM with your address and I can send you some twine, just you pay the postage.

I concur with Bill the wastebasket model cage king. I had perch up to 10 inches in two cages last summer with no problems. However typically once I can sex them for sure I release the females into the pond.

Yours truly,

The one that prefers the dumpster model cages.

Bill, how about plastic baler twine? That's readily available at farm-supply places and dirt cheap if you need anough of it to buy the 16,000 feet minmum purchase.

When I build cages (I need to get my deepwater docks finished first to have good places to anchor them), I plan on using insulated 12 gauge copper wire to hold the webbing on. But I have lots of it left as residue/salvage from wiring jobs.

Plastic baler twine does work. I think it has a little different chemical composition than what I normally use becasue it does not melt as easily to make it so it does not unravel. I suggest that you use anything that works well for your needs. I think the most important feature of what you use is that it holds up well in the water and when exposed to UV light. My twine has been in use for 10-12 yrs and it still is in good shape.

Thank you all for the replies!

Cecil, have you noticed any degrading of the cable ties over time?

Russ

IME white cable ties break down when used outside. The black ones are supposedly UV resistant, but I only have about 6 months of experience with them so far.

Theo is correctamento. I have run many a coaxial cable on ships, and the standard practice is black, UV resistant(or, stainless). White ones will get brittle and break in short notice.

Not really and I use the black and the white colors. However every year I go over the cages with a fine tooth comb before I put them in the water. If I find any damage or weakness it's replaced. I have found out if their is a hole fish will find it! I also try and change out the fish into a newly cleaned cage once a year and clean the old ones with a power washer for the next change out.

My cable ties aren't really at stress points though. The only real stress points are where the jugs are attached for flotation and I use nylon rope for that. The nylon rope also does not cut into the cage material like the cable ties would where the jugs are attached. I do know however the nylon rope will eventually get weak over time if it is continuously submerged.

There is a UV resistant grade of cable Tys available at our home centers. Cheap insurance.
I haven't seen this for a long time, but there is a type of cable ty that has a tiny steel clip embedded into the wratchet joint. I don't know that it is stainless steel; kinda doubt it. If it's plain old carbon steel, uh oh.
All the cable tys I see now are using nylon wratchet mechanisms molded in.

there was a time when there were only a few brands and quality of ty wraps. Thomas and Betts with stainless inserts for holding strenght were the best. They were made of nylon. Not cheap.

Now it is a roll of the dice as to what you get. I have gotten some that would break with just hand pulling to tighten. If you find a good one, stick with it.

Wouldn't surprise me if they are all made in China now. Probably bad quality control.

Aside from building the cages, I've got a question pertaining to feed. I'm going to approach the local Agway dealer about ordering a bag of Aquamax, since it is not an item they normally stock. With the number of fish I plan to grow out, 20-25 BG and YP fingerlings (seperate cages), could someone recommend a pellet size that would cover me for the feeding season, April-October. I would guess that if I start with a small pellet, I could make a bigger nugget, as the fish grow, by mashing the pellets together.

Thanks

Russ

Mods, if this question is more appropriate someplace else, please move it.

Russ, it depends on the size of the fish when you get them and how big you expect them to get in the cages. If they are 2 inches long, I think Purina Game Fish Chow would work.

If they are 1 inch, Aquamax makes some fry pellets. However, some of them sink, so would be lost. That shouldn't be a problem with that small number of fish. There are an awful lot of tiny pellets in there. Actually, my larger BG like them pretty well.

BTW, I know nothing of YP but figure they would eat the same pellets as BG.

Dave,

Relying on the advice mentioned in the PB articles, I'm going to stick with Aquamax for the high protein. I'm hoping to serve both fish from the same one item menu. As for fish size, its open right now until I get a better handle on what will be available this spring.

If you get 2-3 inch BG & YP fingerlings, they should be able to eat (floating) Aquamax 500. That's 40% protein. IIRC some of the smaller, sinking sizes are a little higher %.

Thanks Theo

Match the size of feed to the size of fish. YP have larger mouths than the same length BG. A good rule of thumb is to feed a pellet that is the same size as the fish's eye. If you soften the pellets then the next larger size pellet can be fed. If you are only feeding a total of abt 50 fish it would be best to see if a Forum member would sell you a few pounds of appropriate sized Aquamax to get you through the late spring /fall. 50# is a lot of food for 50-80 juvenile caged fish. Try to maintain relatively fresh food on the shelf for caged or captive fish.

Thanks Bill. Using the YP chart from Purina's website, I figured 10-12 lbs for the season, for both the caged YP and BG. The remainder I will use to feed the BG that currently reside in the pond.

Russ

Finished two cages this past weekend of the basket type as shown in Cecil's post on page 1. If I bought all the materials used in the construction, each cage would of cost about $50 to build. This cost does not include the top cover or stitching twine. Each cage measures 3' diameter x 4' deep.

Materials:
(1) Top and bottom hoops(bottom one is not necessary) were 10' pieces of 1" black poly well pipe. Pipe price is around 50 cents/foot. $10

(2) Netting (with shipping) ran about $2.45/linear foot. 14'/cage. (10' for the side piece, 4' for the bottom piece.) $34

(3) To give some rigidity to the cage, I cable-tied three pieces of 1" x 4' PVC pipe(sch 40) between the top and bottom hoops. $3.50

(4) Cable ties and plastic barbed nipple. $3

(5) One saturday morning western movie.

Priced a 36" x 8' piece of metal roofing at $31. Cut into pieces this would be more than enough for 3-4 cages, my guess. So add another $7-8 for a top.

Many thanks to Bill Cody for the twine and detailed build instructions!!

Russ

Russ - How about adding a photo of one of the cages?. What size mesh did you use 1/2" or 3/4"?.

Ah Jeeze another wastebasket guy.

Mesh size was 1/4".
Cecil, we're taking over!

Ask Bill what a veteran perch producer said about rectangular vs. round cages. Bill?

Russ,

What size fish are you putting in again?

Has anyone ever tried the net that you buy from net company?

Can you provide a link?

nylonnet.com

Cecil,

One cage for BG, initially thinking about fingerlings, now looking to place larger fish. Cage two will be for fingerling YP.

Russ

Calvin,

Unless I missed it on their site if they don't have the heavy plastic type netting I wouldn't use any of their material for cages. The heavy plastic material lasts a long time and is easier to clean off then flimsier nylon netting. You need something stiff you can brush against to remove the algae. I use a push broom on an extended handle.

why do u have to remove algae.

In itself it's not a bad thing but it has a tendency to clog the mesh and impede water flow into and out of the cage. This is not a good thing for obvious reasons. This is also why you should always use as large a mesh as possible.

I just finished my version of a Cecil cage, 1 1/2" pvc, 3/4" mesh green plastic fencing and measures 7 1/2'L X 3'H X 3'W. I put pipe framing in the middle for more support and might put a removable divider in the middle.
Total cost was about $110. with some materials left over.
Will be putting in the largest PS's from my pond, and some area lakes, and then transferring them to a RAS in the fall.
I would like to mount a small fish feeder to the plywood hatch and then put a bucket over it to keep the coons out. The "Fish Mate" feeder looks interesting, any suggestions welcome.

Nice! Good to see someone else isn't a wastebasket cage guy.

The option for the divider is cool too! Not only can you seperate different species you could crowd them a little at first (if you don't have too many) to get a better feeding response. To a certain extent the more competition you have the better they will feed. And it helps in feed training also.

I can't tell you much about the automatic feeders. I feed mostly by hand.

From the Wastebasket Cage Guy: In additon to what Cecil mentioned, I see advantages and disadvantages here.

1. No pellet guard or mesh around the top. This could be good in that pellets can escape the cage and be eaten by other fish. Bad due to fairly rapid loss of feed out of cage for feeding fish and they might not grow as well since pellets will not stay in cage as long and escape before the fish can fill its belly. Feeding fish create quite a bit of surface activity while feeding and tend to push pellets to the edges of the cage.

2. Auto feeders initially sound like a great idea but IMO are not the best way to go. With an auto feeder one does not know as well when fish are not eating the food. Not eating food is a very important signal feature to let the owner know something is remiss with the fish. IMO Caged fish should be observed daily and in my experiences daily feeding is adequate for good growth rates. Auto feeders tend to cause neglect of caged fish, and this leads to difficulties when fish are confined.

3. Using the finer mesh netting rather than standard cage neting IMO will not last as long nor be as durable as standard cage netting. Finer mesh netting will IMO not be as easy to clean with brushing/scrubbing as standard cage netting. Finer mesh netting will tear or can be ripped into easier by predators than standard cage netting. Standard cage netting has built-in UV light resistance and water biofouling-rot resistance.

4. Cage will need additional floatation esp after it begins to load up with algae and get a lot heavier.

Keep us posted as to how things are going with this cage project. We are interested in photos of fish at stocking and when fish are released.

Bill, thanks for the input, I will put some finer mesh around the top 6 inches of the cage to prevent feed from escaping.
I live 95 miles from the pond so I have no choice but to use an automatic feeder, sometimes it's 6 or 7 days between visits. The Fish Mate feeder is small and holds about 2 pounds of food which should be enough between visits to keep the PS's fed, I was hoping someone had some experience with those feeders.
The top pvc pipe frame is filled with foam, and I will also add floatation to the top of the cage.
I will be adding the larger PS's from my pond and what I catch locally and see how well they grow.

The water temps. are finally rising ( 55 degrees @ 5ft ) so I put the fish cage in.
Soon I'll get some of the larger PS's from my pond and other area lakes and try to grow some bigun's.

It looks like a good start. Good luck trying to feed train PS. Since you don't live at the pond to pamper them during the early stages of pellet training, it might be pretty hard getting them on pellets. I am interested in your results.

Good luck with your cage experiment AP.

While this subject has resurfaced, I thought I'd offer an update to Bill Cody about my attempt with cage raising fish. Bill I'm sorry to report that my cages are still on terra firma. This year has been an absolute disaster, for both of my ponds, concerning algae. The small pond where I wanted to deploy these cages is 90% covered with algae. The only openings I have are created by the diffusers. Secchi disk readings are 3-4 feet.

10 days ago, heavy rains cleared the pond but within 2-3 days, the algae was back with a vengeance. Its has never been this bad in previous years. I've tried manual removal with limited success. The local forecast is for rain the next few days. If the pond clears from this, I'm going to give pond dye a try.

Would a water analysis offer any assistance? What would I check for......excessive nitrates??

One reason I mention a water analysis is due to Bob's comment here:

http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=164077#Post164077

"Believe it or not, fresh rainwater in abundance de-stabilizes a pond's biology."


Russ

Russ, sorry to hear about your algae problem, hope you can get it cleared up. That's the one problem I don't have, maybe the PH (5.5) of the water has something to do with it. Have you tried using bacteria to see if it would help?

Bill, I have 5 PS's in an indoor tank since Nov. and they eat pellets, 2 of them are almost 5 inches so I will put them in the cage when I get other PS's and see if they help train the others.
I'll put a small auto feeder on the wood hatch and put a cover over it to keep the critters out of the food.

Larry

Time to try out the fish cage,I caught a couple of PS's which were only 5", but decided to put them in the fish cage untill I got some bigger ones, well they were magical fish cause they disappeared.
I couldn't find them even with a spot light at night so the next day I hoisted the cage up, no fish.
I screwed up by not putting more zip ties on the bottom fencing and they squeezed thru little gaps, that's next weeks project, this time I'll do it right.

AP,

Been there done that. You'll only do that once! I put a bunch of small bluegills in a cage to feed train them. One day I came out and could have swore I saw a couple of bass in the cage and a lot less bluegills. I was right. I forgot to zip tie a section of the bottom of this 10 foot by 10 foot cage and bass were coming in and bluegills were getting the heck out!

Now when I build a cage or pull one for cleaning I give it a really good inspection looking for damage or missing zip ties.

Is it possible you don't have an algae problem because of your stained water?

Yea Cecil, algae is the one problem I don't have.
After I put more zip ties on I'm gonna put another layer of fencing on the bottom and it's going to be painted white so I can see the fish easier.

I wanna see some 1 pound plus PS!

Yes sireeee, 1 pound PS's & 10 lb Trout, I can dream.

AP,

That's great you don't have an algae problem. For me cleaning the algae off the cage mesh is a weekly job.

I will say for me, for that reason --the smaller mesh along the sides of the cage at and below the water line to keep feed in -- would get clogged rapidly by algae and create a lack of water flow through. At least it's a concern for me. Instead of the using the fine mesh I use floating PVC made into a square or rectangle with 90 degree elbows(feeding ring) and float that in the cage.

Don't use too much mesh in the bottom of the cage. You need waste products to fall out of the cage. If you overlap your seams enough and use enough plastic zip ties at the edge of the two edges of the seam you shouldn't have to worry about escapees.

Cecil the cage had been in 3 weeks and still pretty clean so maybe I won't have to clean it much.
The other layer of fencing I'll put on the bottom will be the same 3/4 inch fencing so hopefully it shouldn't be a problem and having it painted white should make it easier to keep an eye on them.

Are you sure the paint will adhere to the plastic? I have a plastic boat that stickers won't even stay on.

Your right that could be a problem, maybe I'll sand it first to help it grip, we'll see what happens.

Sounds like a lot of trouble to see some fish.

Several question:
1. For those of you using the cube type PVC design, is the tubing completely closed? I guess the air trapped inside will help with flotation, but it won't help so much that the whole thing floats on top, will it?
2. Is shade a necessary addition?
3. The area that I would put my fish cage in is currently not aerated. Could one of these cheap, little, floating, solar powered aerator, fountain things be tethered to it to add some circulation?

Not in less you want that option as some suppliers supply a piece to fit in the fittings to block out water. Personally I want the frame to fill with water which is why I drill some holes into it. My flotation consists of Clorox jugs, detergent jubs, or anything similar (rinse them well before using) tied to the sides of the cage except where the cage butts up against the pier.



No. With an air filled frame, the cage will want to not sit properly in the water. I prefer using the jugs as it allows me to set it at whatever depth I want it at. I prefer up to a foot of the cage out of the water to keep the cover from drooping in the water as I use cages up to 7 feet in diameter.




Yes. Fish stress out in direct sunlight. They need a shaded area to go under in the cage. I use plastic tarp fastened to the top of my cage about 1/3 the width of the surface area (varies and not written in stone.)




Possibly. I don't always use any aeration especially if the cage is over deep water with good wind flow. If I do use aeration it's a diffuser near the cage. Never permanently place a diffuser directly under a cage. The fish don't like it and become stressed by it. However I have been know to pull the cage temporarily over a diffuser next to the pier to get any algae that is on the bottom to float up and be removed with a dip net.

I'm moving fish from one cage to another today if it stops raining. I will take some pictures and post them if you're interested.

Bullhead, when I built my fish cage I filled the top pipes with foam and drilled all the other pipes so they would fill and drain water easily. I zip tied some foam noodles to the top to give it some extra floatation.
The trap door is plywood so that it gives them some shade, and I also made a divider if I choose to separate any fish.
I built my cage similar to Cecil's cause he has lots of experience raising fish in cages, but that's not to say that the other designs aren't just as good.

No argument there. More than one way to skin a cat!

AP I was going to tell you that to some extent the more fish you can get into your cage the more likely you will get them to feed train. At some point competitiveness makes them more aggressive for the feed.

I'm going to the pond tomorrow to fix the cage, and start catching more PS's for it.
If competitiveness makes them feed more aggressive, then I probably should put the cage divider in untill I get alot more fish.

That's what I would do.

Here are a couple of cages I just planted fish into. The one with the blue tarp is 5 X 5 X 4 feet and contains about 350 yellow perch in the 5 to 10 inch range. (Most run 6 to 8 inches.)

The one with the brown tarp for shade cover is 3 X 3 X 4 feet. It has 250 bluegills from 3 to 5 inches.



I put my fish I produce in cages (except for the trout) until I can sex them or they are of a sex I do not want in the pond free swimming and able to reproduce, such as male yellow perch or female bluegills. I prefer to produce them in a separate pond. My goal is to have an all female perch and all male bluegill pond augmented with some smallmouth starting this year.

Here's how I haul fish from pond to pond and move fish cages. These two cages are ready to power wash the algae off of for future use.



This picture shows you how algae can clog the mesh on your cage. I brush them while in the water about once a week with a stiff push broom on an extendable handle. If I take the cages out they are powerwashed.



Here a cage is being powerwashed to remove the algae.

Cecil, you need a tilapia tank to clean those cages for you.

Yeah or maybe even put some tilapia in the cage with the other fish but with my luck they revert to the pellets like the grass carp I had did.

I put another 60 zip ties around the cage fencing to close any small openings, then I painted another piece of fencing white and put it in the bottom of the cage so it will be easier to see the fish. I used Krylon fusion paint which is made to adhere to plastic, we'll see.
The 6 inch trout I put in for a day didn't find a way out so I guess the problem is solved.

Sounds like a plan AP!

Great thread! Any updates?

Yeah I'm moving a way from the cages to RAS tanks! I'm seeing some wear and tear on some of the large bluegills that spent part of their lives in the cages.


I also figured out where my bluegill reproduction came from in my "all male" bluegill pond. Apparently I had some escapees from one of my cages. Esshup and I seined the pond and found several females that were to big too have been reproduced in the pond, but to small to have been planted. Logical deduction says they came out of one of the cages. I do remember the ice had pushed one side of one of the cages down to the water level at last ice last year. I corrected it immediately but apparently some swam out between the lid and the cage edge in the mean time.

If I could ask a question. I'm new to the world of fish cages and am considering building one but what wire or netting would I need to use would galvanized 1/4 inch chicken wire work.

No wouldn't recommend chicken wire. I use a plastic netting that is available from Stoney Creek (advertises here) and Internet. Lasts virtually forever and you can build a cage with a PVC frame, the plastic netting, and PVC and fittings.

I agree with Cecil on avoiding galvanized, unless you have lots of bandaids!

I've built two recently, one round cage (galvanized) and one "box" cage out of plastic netting found at the hardware store. The plastic netting I used won't last as long as what Cecil refers to but it was cheap and readily available. It's been in my pond for a month now and so far holding up fine.

Size needed and goals should be determining factors for you.

So, it depends

The round cage was $100 to build, the "box" cage around $50

I am looking for suggestions for netting material for a fish cage. I would like the mesh size to be less that 1/2" and the material to be durable. Cost is also a major factor. Any suggestions? Does plastic window screen hold up?

Don't know the answer to your question but I think you'll have a difficult time keeping algae from clogging up window screen

Here is the fish cage I built last year using the "construction netting" LovnLiving used for his cage, it is still holding up.



I think the brown stuff on the netting in this picture might be GSH eggs, this picture was taken in late August after temps had cooled down a little bit. The cage had only been in the water for four weeks.


Same cage four weeks later in September.

I "think" the brown stuff is algae

RAH, I sent you a PM.

Actually it looked more like insect eggs stacked tightly next to each other.

Kind of like this but more tightly clustered and brown:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/54516384@N02/5374126714/

It actually remined me of the egg clusters that giant water bugs carry around only smaller and not as neatly packed.



I also saw it on some of the vegetation in my pond, I would find a stem that was wrapped all the way around with these brown clusters in a spot that was 1-1/2" long. The rest of the stem would be clean. Algae is pretty uniform in its coverage, this stuff wasn't.

Here is the netting I used.

http://www.menards.com/main/building-mat...1769-c-5772.htm