Pond Boss
Posted By: Chris Steelman Summer job - 10/04/07 03:04 AM
My mom has been talking to some family friends at our Church that have some land near Groesbeck, Texas. They said that they need someone to work managing their land over the summer. Like managing the ponds, getting rid of feral hogs and maintaining the property. I don't have very much information yet but I am really excited and from what my mom said they are excited too. Wish me luck.
Posted By: Bruce Condello Re: Possible Summer job - 10/04/07 04:14 AM
Good luck, good buddy.
Posted By: Dave Davidson1 Re: Possible Summer job - 10/04/07 09:55 AM
Chris, I know of nobody who can get rid of feral hogs. They don't read the same books we do.

They showed up on my place last year. They were everywhere. Then, they left. I still see some evidence that a few are around, lone boars probably, but not many. However, they will return.

Sounds like a neat undertaking.
Posted By: Theo Gallus Re: Possible Summer job - 10/04/07 12:29 PM
You better watch it, young man. Summer jobs often portend one's eventual permanent employment (mine did, anyway). If you're not careful, you could end up managing ponds, maintaining property, and hunting hogs for a living. \:o
Posted By: ewest Re: Possible Summer job - 10/04/07 01:17 PM
Sounds like fun - Good Luck.
Posted By: Sunil Re: Possible Summer job - 10/04/07 01:28 PM
Outstanding, Young Man!!!!!!

Let's briefly discuss your billing rate...

I'm thinking that you should command no less than $46.50/hour along with full medical, dental, and vision.

Of course, you'll need all major holidays off, as well as (28) days paid vacation. While this may sound unreasonable, it's perfectly valid for a 3-month job post.

Of course you will require an all terrain vehicle (which is yours to keep).

Each Friday at 12 Noon, your employer must provide 3 cases of fine beer, in bottles, as well as a full barbecue buffet along with a nice bottle of port wine to finish it off. You are 21 right?....well, doesn't matter.

Well, that should be a good start.

Anyone else have any negotiating points for this strapping young entrepreneur?
Posted By: Yolk Sac Re: Possible Summer job - 10/04/07 03:22 PM
Originally posted by Theo Gallus:

 Quote:
You better watch it, young man. Summer jobs often portend one's eventual permanent employment (mine did, anyway).


Theo, where in the world did you get a summer job as a science- fiction-reading, heavy-metal-listening, medieval-siege-engine- building, latin-quoting, moderator?
Posted By: Theo Gallus Re: Possible Summer job - 10/04/07 03:34 PM


I wish, Yolkie, I wish.
Posted By: Chris Steelman Re: Possible Summer job - 10/04/07 03:36 PM
 Originally Posted By: Dave Davidson1
Chris, I know of nobody who can get rid of feral hogs. They don't read the same books we do.


Let me rephrase that. I will try to control the population as best I can.

Sunil, thats sounds about right.
Posted By: Dave Davidson1 Re: Possible Summer job - 10/04/07 03:52 PM
Hey, as a temporary contractor/consultant, you'll need an agent. Contact me for details of our business arrangement.
Posted By: Chris Steelman Re: Possible Summer job - 10/04/07 03:57 PM
 Originally Posted By: Dave Davidson1
Hey, as a temporary contractor/consultant, you'll need an agent. Contact me for details of our business arrangement.


How much do you charge? I think the going rate is 10%. \:\)
Posted By: Dave Davidson1 Re: Possible Summer job - 10/05/07 11:31 AM
Naw, that's Hollywood stuff. Real pimps like me are more expensive. After all, I have a couple of ponds to support.
Posted By: Chris Steelman Re: Possible Summer job - 10/11/07 01:14 AM
I just talked to our church friend today. She said that her father is going to send me a list of stuff that they want done. I will see what I will be able to do and recommend some more things that were not on the list. She said that they have 800 acres and many ponds. One sounds like a bass stunted pond and another has big catfish. She also said that some of the ponds have vegetation problems.

The way she was talking this could be a year round thing. I could come down once or twice a month and then work over the summer. Sounds like it could be fun.
Posted By: Sunil Re: Possible Summer job - 10/12/07 01:59 AM
Outstanding, Young Man!!!

Let's get right into the meat & potatoes.

Of course, your whole attitude and assumption at this point, being the strapping young entrepeneur that you are, portrays the fact that you know it's a paying gig.

Don't discuss payment now. Instead, set up the initial meeting. At the meeting, view the gig and ask questions related to the ideas of what the client wants to accomplish. Ask what, if any, land management has been done in the past. Have them state what their dream/ideal goals are for the property. Once established, question them on what they think can be accomplished during the summer, and what could be developed the next fall. At this time, I would ask them where they usually purchase any supplies that they use for land/pond management, if any. Then I would ask them what supplies they think, if any, would be required to get them on the path to their goals.

Ask at least three questions in each area. Get into some depth and probe around.

Now, if there was past land management, I would probe into if they were happy, sad, or glad about what had been done. I would ask more details on who did it. If it was a total outsider to the clients, I would ask how much they spent.

Now if the client does not expect to pay for any supplies or such, take a break and PM me.

But if you've established that the client has in the past, and expects to in the future pay for things needed, you have set up the scene.

Now for the grits...ask how much the client expects to pay to accomplish their own stated ideal goals.

Once you know all of that, then it is time to present your solutions. How and what you would do to accomplish their ideal goals, if possible, and what time frames they could take. I would cover supplies needed to meet these goals, and if you knew where they shopped, you could mention the solution of using that account. Then I would discuss how you plan to work the project meaning what schedule would you keep, would you enlist help, and how you would document what you are doing such as a weekly log with tasks accomplished, and more importantly, hours spent.

Now, you should have an idea of the total level of effort, and your time to task. If you are sharp, and we know you are, you will have a ballpark idea of what the costs will be for your time (assuming you have a billing rate in your mind; let's not start with the $46.50/hour I suggested earlier)/(if you don't know the numbers in your mind, ask to take a few minutes to review your notes, then crunch some numbers). If your time costs plus supply costs are within what they expect to pay, we are golden; if our expected proposal cost is over what they expect to pay, we have to now address it. Eliminate some of the mini-projects, and offer what can be accomplished within their expected costs. We'll have to trust our gut here, and then move to close.

Ask them..."if we can accomplish this, that, and the other, in the time frames we discussed, and within the budget you expect to pay, do you want the Steelman-Slymer House of Fish Squeezing & Supply perform this work for you?

Now remember, we always EXPECT to close, so it's hard for us to not break out in a full-flex crab position demonstrating our total dominance at this point, but we need to hear the clients answer first.

If in the affirmative, we shake hands and then ask when they want to get started. If there are objections, then we have to go back through expectations, solutions and the such....but no worries; remember, we EXPECT to close. If there's any objections, PM me.

At this point you'll have to decide how much, if any, you want to put in writing. You'll, at the very minimum, need to discuss how they plan to pay you ie/ weekly, etc.

Our first paid gig....yeah!

Does anyone else have any advice for this up and coming young entrepreneur?
Posted By: Theo Gallus Re: Possible Summer job - 10/12/07 02:10 AM
"The two things you need to get along with people are warmth and sincerity. Once you can fake those, you've got it made!"

-Kasey Kasem
Posted By: Chris Steelman Re: Possible Summer job - 10/12/07 02:24 AM
I will have to read that a few times to understand it all :), but I can address a few things now.

Right now since I will only be able to go on the weekends I was thinking of them paying for gas money and vehicle wear and tear. Which from what I figured would be about $150. Then we could talk about pay when I would be able to be down there for more than 2 days at a time.

Supplies:
When I talked to her on the phone she talked about water quality testing. I think I could buy the kit and charge a fee. That way it would be mine to keep. She also talked about buying fish from Overtons, which is a good start.

Goals:
She said that her father is writing up a list of stuff that he wants to get done. Once I get the list I can see what I will be able to do and also recommend some other things.
Posted By: Bruce Condello Re: Possible Summer job - 10/12/07 02:24 AM
 Originally Posted By: Sunil
Outstanding, Young Man!!!

Let's get right into the meat & potatoes.

Of course, your whole attitude and assumption at this point, being the strapping young entrepeneur that you are, portrays the fact that you know it's a paying gig.

Don't discuss payment now. Instead, set up the initial meeting. At the meeting, view the gig and ask questions related to the ideas of what the client wants to accomplish. Ask what, if any, land management has been done in the past. Have them state what their dream/ideal goals are for the property. Once established, question them on what they think can be accomplished during the summer, and what could be developed the next fall. At this time, I would ask them where they usually purchase any supplies that they use for land/pond management, if any. Then I would ask them what supplies they think, if any, would be required to get them on the path to their goals.

Ask at least three questions in each area. Get into some depth and probe around.

Now, if there was past land management, I would probe into if they were happy, sad, or glad about what had been done. I would ask more details on who did it. If it was a total outsider to the clients, I would ask how much they spent.

Now if the client does not expect to pay for any supplies or such, take a break and PM me.

But if you've established that the client has in the past, and expects to in the future pay for things needed, you have set up the scene.

Now for the grits...ask how much the client expects to pay to accomplish their own stated ideal goals.

Once you know all of that, then it is time to present your solutions. How and what you would do to accomplish their ideal goals, if possible, and what time frames they could take. I would cover supplies needed to meet these goals, and if you knew where they shopped, you could mention the solution of using that account. Then I would discuss how you plan to work the project meaning what schedule would you keep, would you enlist help, and how you would document what you are doing such as a weekly log with tasks accomplished, and more importantly, hours spent.

Now, you should have an idea of the total level of effort, and your time to task. If you are sharp, and we know you are, you will have a ballpark idea of what the costs will be for your time (assuming you have a billing rate in your mind; let's not start with the $46.50/hour I suggested earlier)/(if you don't know the numbers in your mind, ask to take a few minutes to review your notes, then crunch some numbers). If your time costs plus supply costs are within what they expect to pay, we are golden; if our expected proposal cost is over what they expect to pay, we have to now address it. Eliminate some of the mini-projects, and offer what can be accomplished within their expected costs. We'll have to trust our gut here, and then move to close.

Ask them..."if we can accomplish this, that, and the other, in the time frames we discussed, and within the budget you expect to pay, do you want the Steelman-Slymer House of Fish Squeezing & Supply perform this work for you?

Now remember, we always EXPECT to close, so it's hard for us to not break out in a full-flex crab position demonstrating our total dominance at this point, but we need to hear the clients answer first.

If in the affirmative, we shake hands and then ask when they want to get started. If there are objections, then we have to go back through expectations, solutions and the such....but no worries; remember, we EXPECT to close. If there's any objections, PM me.

At this point you'll have to decide how much, if any, you want to put in writing. You'll, at the very minimum, need to discuss how they plan to pay you ie/ weekly, etc.

Our first paid gig....yeah!

Does anyone else have any advice for this up and coming young entrepreneur?


That's an amazing post. I'd put it in the archives, but I don't know what to classify it as.
Posted By: n8ly Re: Possible Summer job - 10/12/07 03:29 AM
Sunil,

I read your post twice. How much $$$ do I need to send you for the business lesson. I am a young entrepreneur myself, quickly learning the ways of the business world.
Posted By: Dave Davidson1 Re: Possible Summer job - 10/12/07 11:36 AM
Yep, Sunil is more than just a pretty face.
Posted By: Dave Davidson1 Re: Possible Summer job - 10/12/07 11:42 AM
BTW, another point to add to Sunils excellent advice. This involves sales. Once you have gotten all of the expenses and your profit covered, present it to the customer in a professional manner. Then, shut up. The first one that speaks will always lose.
Posted By: ahvatsa Re: Possible Summer job - 10/12/07 11:54 AM
Dave
Have you ever sold cars??????????????????lol

SUNIL FOR PRESIDENT!
Posted By: Sunil Re: Possible Summer job - 10/12/07 12:31 PM
Funny you say that Al! The answer is no, however, one memory comes to mind.

When I was a teenager, we were in a Pontiac dealership. A large lady walks in; she's pushing 375lbs. if she was an ounce. All she keep saying, out loud, was "I want a Fiero...I want a Fiero...I want a Fiero."

In reality, this lady needed a Texas Cadillac (Suburban). She was in the wrong dealership.

If you were the salesman, how would you proceed?
Posted By: Dave Davidson1 Re: Possible Summer job - 10/12/07 12:49 PM
I think I would use a grain scoop like it was a shoehorn. She knew what she wanted and I would throw in the scoop as an accessory.

Actually, I never sell a car. I keep them until the wrecking yard won't take them and buy new ones.
Posted By: rockytopper Re: Possible Summer job - 10/12/07 03:13 PM
Dave is this your place?
http://www.ronsaari.com/stockImages/route66/cadillacRanch2.php
Posted By: ewest Re: Possible Summer job - 10/13/07 01:54 AM
When they send you the list write out a plan of action on how to do what they want and include any well thought out suggestions and questions. Then send it to them in draft form for their comments. That should put both of you on a solid starting foundation and avoid later misunderstandings.
Posted By: Chris Steelman Re: Possible Summer job - 10/13/07 03:28 AM
 Originally Posted By: ewest
Then send it to them in draft form for their comments.


What is draft form?
Posted By: Theo Gallus Re: Possible Summer job - 10/13/07 03:53 AM

Posted By: ewest Re: Possible Summer job - 10/13/07 02:51 PM
Just put "Draft for Discussion Purposes" in bold at the top. That way they will know it is not set in stone but a work in progress seeking their comments.

On the ball there Theo. \:o \:D
Posted By: Sunil Re: Possible Summer job - 10/13/07 02:54 PM
Draft form means it's not the final version of what you are submitting.

That's the "dictionary" version of draft. What it really means is that you have not committed to anything, but more so, things can be changed to reflect yours and the customers desires.

When you send something labeled as a "draft," it means you have "wiggle room" to play with.

Another way to look at things is this: In business, you never want to leave change on the table. For example, if your potential customer wants to pay $5,000.00 this summer and is happy with that amount, I wouldn't go in and tell him you can do everything for $4,000.00. You'd be leaving $1,000.00 on the table for no reason. This is assuming there is no competition for the gig.

Let me also be very clear - I'm not at all talking about gouging the client.

Here is another example on the pricing of services.

At one end of the spectrum, you have "cost plus" pricing. This means that if your cost to do something is $100.00, you charge the customer $125.00. So basically, you make around 25% profit or $25.00. Use whatever % you can, and that is the "plus" in cost plus pricing.

The other end of the spectrum is value pricing. This means that you try to charge the client whatever the "value" is of the project. Let me give you an example from my end. We inspect large plant equipment. Say that I can inspect a "widget" for $5,000.00 and that is my cost plus some profit for my company. But look at the other end...if that "widget" fails during production, the client loses $100,000.00/hour in fixed costs and lost production, and the plant will be down for a minimum of 10 hours. So the VALUE to the client could be seen as $1 Million dollars which is what he'll lose if the "widget" fails. Now that does not mean he'll pay me $1 Million to test his "widget" and let him know its good, but he might pay some amount less than that, BUT way more than my "cost plus" pricing of $5,000.00.

If you put cost plus pricing on the left end of the spectrum, and extreme value pricing on the right side of the spectrum, I feel the best place to be is just right of center.

At the very left side of the spectrum, or cost plus, you will land more jobs, but make less profit, and to make more profit, you have to do more work, and eventually, it's more work than you can do yourself. At the very right, you will have a tougher time convincing clients to pay the full "value" amounts, so you'll land less jobs, but when you land one, you make a lot more profit. So in between is where to be in my book.

The sales process to be at center or right of center of the pricing spectrum is a little more involved, but it is not hard to do. Learn it now, and you'll be successful in everything that you do, business-wise, whatever you do.

This is also a major point that I forgot to mention earlier - Make darn sure that you are speaking to the decision maker. If you are not, you are at an immediate disadvantage. If you don't know if you are speaking to the decision maker, ask "who is the decision maker?"

The Board of Directors of the Steelman-Slymer House of Fish Squeezing & Supply is waiting for news that this deal has been bagged & tagged.
Posted By: Chris Steelman Re: Possible Summer job - 10/13/07 04:29 PM
Ok, that makes sense. Dont set anything in stone right now to allow for negotiations.
Posted By: Sunil Re: Possible Summer job - 10/13/07 04:31 PM
Well, you've demonstrated that you can say, in one sentence, what took me a few paragraphs to write. Thanks.

Well done, Young Man!
Posted By: Chris Steelman Re: Possible Summer job - 10/13/07 04:34 PM
Short, but sweet.
Posted By: Dave Davidson1 Re: Possible Summer job - 10/15/07 11:10 AM
RT, nope, but I've been there.
Posted By: Chris Steelman Re: Possible Summer job - 10/26/07 12:46 AM
I just talked to her today and she gave me a list of things to look at.

Identifying and controlling aquatic vegetation

She said they had waterleaf, lily pads, and moss(I am guessing it is FA). She said that her father used eraser on 2/3 of the pond twice with good success.

I can identify the plants and see about controlling them.

Fish and stocking

She gave me some basic info about stocking. A few years ago they stocked the main pond with bass, catfish, crappie, bluegill, minnows, and tadpoles. They stocked the same species of fish twice since the initial stocking. There are catfish over ten pounds that come up to the feeder. One year ago they stocked 36 6 in. catfish. Her father said that the bass look healthy but are not over 1 1/2 pounds.

She said she wanted me to check on getting a survey done with a shocking boat. I am going to contact Todd Overton to see about getting the survey done. He is not very far from their property.

I was thinking about starting a feeding program and fertilizing next spring. Anybody else have some recommendations?
Posted By: Dave Davidson1 Re: Possible Summer job - 10/26/07 12:53 AM
Suggestions? Ask about their goals and expectations.
Posted By: Chris Steelman Re: Possible Summer job - 10/26/07 01:01 AM
I will try and get her father's phone number so I can talk to him about it.
Posted By: Chris Steelman Re: Possible Summer job - 10/27/07 01:35 AM
I talked to Mr. Brown this evening about his expectations for the main pond.

First off, he would like the pond to look good. A cabin overlooks the pond and he would like to a nice view of the pond.

Next he would like to have good fishing for his grandkids. We talked about getting a survey done and he thought that that was a good idea, so I am going to call Overton's to talk about getting a electrofishing survey.

He also said that there are two small ponds close to the main pond. I suggested we make these forage ponds and he was interested in that too.
Posted By: ewest Re: Possible Summer job - 10/27/07 12:31 PM
Be real sure about a fertilization program before you start one. Once started it must be continued year to year or you will be vary disappointed with the negative fish results. Without ample water they can also result in a mess from a "look good" perspective. Soil samples tested for water quality are a must.
Posted By: Chris Steelman Re: Possible Summer job - 10/28/07 02:55 AM
 Originally Posted By: ewest
Be real sure about a fertilization program before you start one. Once started it must be continued year to year or you will be vary disappointed with the negative fish results. Without ample water they can also result in a mess from a "look good" perspective. Soil samples tested for water quality are a must.


I may be trying to be to ambitious with a fertilization program. I will think of some other ideas.
Posted By: ewest Re: Possible Summer job - 10/28/07 01:48 PM
Chris it is very good to think ambitiously and then apply the science to see if the thinking fits the situation. \:\)
Posted By: Chris Steelman Re: Possible Summer job - 05/20/08 03:51 PM
I won't be working in Texas this summer. I ended up getting a job with the school and will be helping grad students with their projects and with an undergrad project.

The project I will be working on most of the time will be looking for Stargazing Darters around the state. We will be using trawls, seines and electrofishing. We will be gone about a week at a time so I think my redear project will have to wait until school starts.

The undergrad project is working with zebra mussels and larval fish. Entergy, the company the owns the nuclear plant outside of town, gives us a grant to sample Lake Dardanelle. We go out once a week to collect larval fish and every other week for zebra mussles. The net we use for larval fish is a meter in diameter and is about 10 feet long. The net gets smaller towards the end and the sample collects in a small container.

Here is a picture of a 3lb. catfish we caught in the net last night. One of the guys has been working on the project for 3 years and has never caught a fish this big in the net.


Posted By: Sunil Re: Possible Summer job - 05/20/08 04:59 PM
Outstanding, Young Man!

I can only assume you are billing out at a premium of say $87.50/hour plus all benefits.
Posted By: Chris Steelman Re: Possible Summer job - 08/01/08 03:07 AM
I heard today that my school received a very large grant from the EPA to sample 78 streams across the state of Arkansas. We are going to be sampling every weekend from the middle of August through the beginning of October. We will also sample all of next summer. This is a nation wide project so I bet that Dr. Willis has heard of it.

For the Zebra mussel project that is going on right now, if all goes to plan I should be in charge of it starting next summer. Of the two guy's ahead of me, one is graduating in the spring and the other is not allowed to work during the school year. This is excellent learning experience and will look great on a resume for a job or Grad school.
Posted By: Sunil Re: Possible Summer job - 08/01/08 03:15 AM
Outstanding Young Blood!
Posted By: davatsa Re: Possible Summer job - 08/01/08 03:51 AM
Awesome, Chris! Keep us posted on how it goes.
Posted By: Bruce Condello Re: Possible Summer job - 08/01/08 03:56 AM
 Originally Posted By: Chris Steelman
I heard today that my school received a very large grant from the EPA to sample 78 streams across the state of Arkansas. We are going to be sampling every weekend from the middle of August through the beginning of October. We will also sample all of next summer. This is a nation wide project so I bet that Dr. Willis has heard of it.

For the Zebra mussel project that is going on right now, if all goes to plan I should be in charge of it starting next summer. Of the two guy's ahead of me, one is graduating in the spring and the other is not allowed to work during the school year. This is excellent learning experience and will look great on a resume for a job or Grad school.


You're building all sorts of great things for that resume. Keep it up.

...and do some butt kickin' on school studies this fall!
Posted By: Shawn Banks Re: Possible Summer job - 08/01/08 04:30 AM
Chris,

I spent a few years conducting research on crayfish life history strategies and madtom habitat associations in the Ozarks streams of Missouri. Those were great times for me. I can really appreciate the work you are performing. Your experience with both non-game and sport fishes will make you very marketable.

What you learn in the books in very important, but what you learn and experience in the field is priceless.

Have you had any madtom encounters? They are pretty cool little catfish. We studied the slenders, Ozarks, checkered, and stonecat species. You probably know this, but madtoms are Ictalurids belonging to the genus Noturus. Keep your eyes open for them. If you enjoy research, there are lots of opportunities involving madtoms. When compared to most fish species, very little is known about the madtoms. I'm interested to hear if you've been able to sample to any of them.
Posted By: Chris Steelman Re: Possible Summer job - 08/01/08 04:47 AM
I have seen a lot of madtoms. I had one in my aquarium last year.

This year we have collected most of them while backpack electrofishing in shallow riffles at night. I think we have collected 3 or 4 different species. They are really cool. You just have to be careful about the venom in the spines. The two guys that worked with me both got stuck in the first week of sampling so I was careful the rest of the summer when handling them.
Posted By: Brettski Re: Possible Summer job - 08/01/08 10:41 AM
Chris-man,
You add a wonderful facet to the Pond Boss jewel. All us old guys (and young guys, too) get to watch this on-line movie about the making of young Lusk....except it's you this time. The popcorn and jujubee calories are killin' me, but they're worth every thread about your progress.
Posted By: burgermeister Re: Possible Summer job - 08/01/08 01:41 PM
Way to go, Chris. Folks, I was talking to Young Blood at the conf. about this very nuke plant, lake and the work he has been doing. Very impressive. Chris, did you pick this school because it has a superior reputation?
Posted By: Chris Steelman Re: Possible Summer job - 08/01/08 03:05 PM
 Originally Posted By: burgermeister
Chris, did you pick this school because it has a superior reputation?


Yes and no. The school is the best in Arkansas from what I have heard. It is also fairly small(7500) compared to the schools in Texas(25000+) which was important to me. In every fisheries class we are able to take multiple field trips since the classes are so small.

I can't imagine a place with more diversity in habitat so close to a school than at ATU. We have mountain stream, swamps, lakes, and the Arkansas River all with a 20 min. drive.
Posted By: burgermeister Re: Possible Summer job - 08/01/08 09:29 PM
Ah, yes....The Natural State. It is beautiful.
Posted By: Chris Steelman Re: Possible Summer job - 08/08/08 03:25 AM
I don't think I have mentioned that we use a jetdrive motor on the Darter project. It is awesome to be able to drive 20 mph in less than 6 in. of water. Even if you hit bottom it is not a big deal. One time we were going full speed around a turn when the driver realized we wouldn't be able to make the turn. He just straightened up the boat and drove it almost all the way onto the shore.
Posted By: Sunil Re: Possible Summer job - 08/08/08 12:19 PM
"It is awesome to be able to drive 20 mph in less than 6 in. of water. Even if you hit bottom it is not a big deal. One time we were going full speed around a turn when the driver realized we wouldn't be able to make the turn. He just straightened up the boat and drove it almost all the way onto the shore."



Let's not brag or rub things in now Young Blood.
Posted By: Keith Wolfe Re: Possible Summer job - 08/08/08 06:28 PM
sounds very cool! I'm going to use this to get my parents to pay me:)
© Pond Boss Forum