Stocking a newly filled 5 acre pond and want some feedback. My goal is pure trophy bass fishing and I stocked in late May 2007 20 lbs. of Fatheads, 600 3-4" Coppernose BG, 200 Redear BG. The pond was since completely filled with recent heavy Oklahoma rains.
I am planning on coming back in September of 2007 and adding more FH and Bluegill to an average of BG 750 per acre.
I want the forage base strong when I stock the bass. Thinking of waiting to stock bass until September of 2008 to give it a full year to cook the forage base. Too Long? Benefit not worth it? I am thinking of 750 6-8" bass which is 150 per acre? Would I be better off to go with 500?

Please share your thoughts.........

If I wanted trophy bass I would not stock over 100 per acre; some of the Southern guys will lower that number to 50.

Stocking more FHM this Fall might well be adding a cupful of water into the 5 gallon bucket of minnows those original 20 lbs of FHM stocked this Spring have spawned by then.

What size BG are you thinking of adding this Fall? That could be worthwhile if it adds a different year class to the original stockers and any 2007 YOY they spawn for you. Adding a separate set of BG genes from a different source would also be desirable IMO.

Personally (assuming I had the patience you are contemplating having), I would see how well the FHM and BG you've already stocked do at reproducing this Summer before deciding whether to put in the bass next Spring or Fall 2008.

Theo, IIRC you have some experience with GS as an initial forage stocker-would you recommend them in addition to the FHM and BG if one were pushing for a pond with a large LMB focus? OKIE sounds like he has the patience to formulate a really strong forage base prior to stocking predators-given his [uncommon]temperance, what do you think the ideal base would be?

Theo was the founder of the "Gee, I Think I Have Way Too Many Shiners Club" or GITIHWTMSC.

Soon thereafter, I also joined the club.

I would suggest only stocking Golden Shiners within a year of the predator stocking, and probably more like only 6 months before the predator stocking. The Golden Shiners can get too big, too early, and then the predators can't eat them.

Also keep in mind that if you stock your predators as fingerlings, they may never be able to eat the original Golden Shiner stockers.

Another option might be to stock 3-5" Golden Shiners a few months after you've put in fingerling predators.

Good point, Sunil.

Have your smallies grown in size and number to the point that you feel they're adequately controlling the shiners now? It may be hard to tell who's controlling what, because IIRC you also have HSB in the lake.

I've got a lot of shiners that are 6" plus now.

I do have fish that can eat them (SMB, HSB, and some LMB), and I think there numbers are steadily dropping.

You do have to watch the sizes of Golden Shiners in relation to your predator sizes.

Don't get me wrong though, I do love the Golden Shiners.

I stocked my small pond with fathead minnows and coppernose bluegill in April of 2006. A year later, the pond is literally full of minnows and bluegill. When they spawn, they really SPAWN!!!!

I can drag a net through that pond and catch dozens of them every time. It's been my source of stocker fish for my big pond for the last several months.

In a years time, You will have all the feeder fish you will ever need. Especially without any preditors to keep there numbers down.

My goals are very similar to yours as I just added 5,000 more fish to my pond last week. I'll keep adding more from my small pond over the year, but won't introduce the bass until the end of Spring 2008.

Eddie

I definitely recommend GShiners for large bass managers, especially North of Threadfin Shad country.

I have had Shiners up to 9" now for 3-4 years (most run 7" to 8"), although the numbers have dropped considerably over the last 2 years after the LMB got large enough to begin eating them. (2005-552 GSH caught, 2006-75 GSH caught, only 10 so far this year). It have would been very interesting to see how the population would have held up if I had stocked far fewer LMB.

If I ever do a pond for large bass, I'll stock GSH at least a year ahead of time and try to conserve them. They are the only species in my pond that eats surface feed all Winter long (given open water); I wonder if high protein feed in the cold months would be a positive thing for them. Maybe once a week or so.

I personally believe any farm pond will benefit from GSH. The BG, RES love the small ones, LMB the larger ones. They are the #1 fresh water live fish for bait. What's not to like?

Been there and done that...the GSH were much like FH's in that they didn't survive the predation in the first year of LMB and HSB. Maybe it is a regional thing, or maybe it is just me, but GSH and FH's have no long term value in my LMB ponds which produce some pretty nice LMB....the value is only during the initial growing season.

How dense were your HSB & LMB, ML? I've still got some (admittedly not very many now) GSH left four years after stocking 200 LMB in just under one acre of water.

Less than 1000 pounds per acre The original stocking was 70 Florida LMB in a 3.5 acre pond which has since been expanded to about 4 acres.

I'd guess I'm at least at 100 predator pounds per acre with the recent reductions in HSB numbers. Like I said, it may be a regional thing. I'd suggest the size of the LMB might be a factor as I've got many 6 to 10 pound plus LMB now. However, the GSH disappeared when the LMB were relatively small.

Generalizations are dangerous in ponds, but for my ponds FHs and GSH are only temporary, one season uppers. My sustaining forage base is CNBG and Gambusia supplemented with annual Tilapia stocking. Works well for me.

How's this for a hypothesis? GSH only spawn once a year, North or South. But down South predators have a longer warm season in which to eat many more GSH than their Northern cousins can during a year.

As opposed to BG - They get hammered more days per year down South, but they get extra spawns in as well to make up for it.

We need more data points (read "ponds"), both ends of the country.

If it is true, Theo, that GSH spawn only once a year, North or South, they are doomed in a Southern LMB pond and pretty much a waste of money except for the initial stocking boost. There are far more efficient means of generating and re-generating the needed forage...that would be my "prattle of those East of the Trinity" as DD1 referred to it and since it comes from East of the Trinity, should not be taken seriously.

Okie in stocking advanced sized fish the stocking #s go down from those used for stocking small 2in stocker fish. Those larger stocking #s assume mortalities to the small fish which don't exist with advanced sized stockers. Your 4 in BG will spawn this summer as will the FH. GShiners now would be a good choice. TShad use a different niche in the pond than BG and Shiners but you may be to far north for them over time. Once you get to the point that 50% of you LMB are over 18in you might want to look at GShad . Tilapia are also an option.

I would forget adding more FH and add some more CNBG or BG (3-5 in - 250) and some adult GShiners. Next spring I would add 2in LMB ( 400 = 300 F-1s and 100 Norhtern). If you wait until fall 08 then go with 250 6-8in with 175 F-1s and 75 Northern. You have to leave room for growth. For example 300 LMB @ avg 3lbs = 900lbs / 5 acres = 180lbs of LMB per acre. That is high and does not count the offspring of those LMB. If you are in south Okla then you might want to sub in a few Fla LMB (30) for some of the F-1s for the genes and size. If you are going to try that then wait until you can get 10in verified female Flas.

Thanks for the feedback! Theo, I will consider pulling back the number of bass to between 50-100 per acre.
I am going to stock 4-5" bluegill. I like the Golden Shiner idea or maybe threadfin shad since I am in Oklahoma. My supplier does not sell Golden Shiners just Fatheads. Is there any real benefit to having both Golden Shiners and Fatheads? I do think I will let the forage base cook real good for one year.
Maybe I will stock 1/2 the quanity I plan as fingerlings in Spring 2008, and 1/2 in 6-8" Bass the following Fall of 2008.

OKIE, I doubt that Threadfins will make it past the first winter in your area.