From time to time, the problem of poachers and trespassers comes up for discussion here. But, locally, at least, the real problem is neighbors and “friends.” I discovered when we bought the place with its existing pond and moved out here that I was suddenly a much nicer guy than I had ever known. Lots of people wanted to be my pal. They all, incidentally, also liked to fish. Since almost everyone in this valley is married to their own cousin (and I am not kidding–but they are mostly very nice people), a guy wouldn’t want to make one of them angry unnecessarily.

So the question is how to keep your neighbors’ good will while also keeping the ability to go out in the yard and organically water the grass without checking around before taking the equipment out of the shed. (As another pond guy once told me, “If you can’t pee off your back steps when you want to, you might as well live in New York City.”)

My solution has been to ask anyone I don’t know to have someone I do know who already fishes here to call me, first, about them. I sadly mumble something about insurance problems to the few real undesirables. Then, I tell the remainder that they are welcome to fish, and all they have to do is to call me first to make sure the pond is not too crowded at that time. (I’m only thinking of their enjoyment, see.) It is amazing how few people are willing to make that call, and I never hear from the majority, again. Most of them seem to think it spoils the fishing trip if they actually have to ask each time before they come, but they can’t and don’t get really angry about it. If I am not available, my wife has figured out to tell them that only I can make that decision, and to call back later. I get just enough fishing traffic to keep my bass population in balance and I get it when it is not a bother. I also get a minimum of floating beer cans, candy wrappers, and (the thing which drives me up the wall the worst) wads of tangled line, because they know that I know exactly who has been there and when. (As an additional service to them, I suggest they police any trash they might find so I won’t unfairly blame it on them. Ain’t I thoughtful?)

A final note is that I don’t ever allow anyone to “help” me with buying fertilizer or fish food, cutting back brush on the banks, etc. It is human nature to assume an ownership interest in what you have contributed to. In the end, I may get a fisherman or two a week, but never more than that; none of them starts to feel that it is "their" pond; and they come when it is not inconvenient for me.

Any other ideas on this?
Lou

you are smarter than me as I tell em you gotta do projects to go fishing. but amazingly, nobody helps with projects so they never get to ownership interest.

of course you can pee anywhere you want, it aint NYC!

has anyone had success with signin sheet, ie to record the fishermemn, fish taken/released or other comments?

Heron Blue, we have the following rules posted on a tree next to the pond. Rules #1 & #2 are the most important.

1.Call before you come out, contact David or Lynn, fishing is by pre-arranged permission for each trip to the pond.

2.No Fishing before 8:00 AM, No fishing after 9:00 PM without making special arrangements.

3.Selective Harvest Regulations on Largemouth Bass:

Protected Slots: Largemouth under 12”

Largemouth over 15”

Unprotected Slot: 12” – 15”, enjoy a fresh meal!

Daily Bag limit is 4 largemouth bass per individual – State Regulations

4. Small mouth Bass – All sizes are protected, 100% catch & release – Be sure to tell David if you catch one.

5. Frog hunting is prohibited year round.

6. Pond is closed to fishing activity during the spring waterfowl migration, closed from ice-out to approximately May 15th. Periodic closings in the fall are possible.

7. Bluegill and channel catfish, no size limits but Nebraska State bag and possession limits apply.

8. No fishing within 25 yards of aerators. Please avoid the 220V electrical cords and mooring anchors.

9.Enjoy!

Very well thought out rules gentlemen. 2 concepts for 'pitch in or not pitch in'. Maybe 'must have current fishing license', state regulations unless you are the owner of the pond. Unfortunately it wont deter the real poachers, just as the teen curfew laws wont get gangs members at home by 10PM. The rules will slow down the 'new best friend' neighbors.

heronblu, you are to be commended for being a good neighbor. A simple phone call to ask, is reasonable. Only then, I would let folks fish. And I would tell them, if I find one piece of trash, I will assume you did it, and you won't be allowed to fish again. This way, they will pick up others trash.

Also, you probably should tell them, you want their help with a few chores around the farm, in a trade for fishing. Like fence work, etc.

My guess is, your neighbors want something for nothing. They want to fish, but won't want to help you around the farm. I would tell them, every time they ask, that you need this or that done, if they are coming fishing anyway. They won't come around, I'll bet. Again, something for nothing. The one or two good neighbors, who will agree, well you'll find out who they are, and they can start really keeping an eye on things for you.

You need to become a good actor. Yell on the phone "HEY YES, COME ON TODAY, AS A MATTER OF FACT, I NEED HELP WITH WORKING THE COWS, PUTTING HORSE SHOES ON, OR FENCING TODAY, OR SATURDAY, CAN YOU HELP ME OUT, WHEN YOU COME TO FISH? IT SHOULDN'T TAKE BUT A COUPLE OF HOURS. I'll bring a sandwich for lunch and gatorade".

Put on your acting hat. They will disappear. The poachers will become evident, as well as the good neighbors.

Great strategy Lou. The phone call policy is a great idea. My plans are to welcome friends and neighbors to fish who helped me (or made a genuine offer to help)build the pond. As for the rest, I have a serious water moccasin infestation, and as soon as I get rid of the snakes...

Great topic Heron, and Shorty I like your list of rules. I think that the general public has no idea of the labor and cost involved to create and maintain a fishing pond.

Just a couple of comments, rule #2 about the fishing hours came about because every once in a while someone would call and then show up at 5:45 AM the next morning without mentioning how early they would be there. My folks were not real happy about their dog waking them up early on a Saturday morning, they also do not want people fishing late at night after they have gone to bed.

On the slot size, we would go up to 16" in length but some people are a little lazy in the measuring dept. and LMB slightly over 15" do get harvested. In general people would rather take home a 15" LMB rather than a 13"er even though harvesting LMB in the 13" size class would be better for the pond. The harvest slot is set with a little bit of a fudge factor in mind.

This topic name reminds of the song "Daytime Friends & Nightime Lovers" and now I have that in my head.

My pond caretaker recently heard from a friend that there is a local guy who has been fishing my pond between like 10PM to 5AM overnights.

I have this guys name now, and may have to send him a note (through the window of his house) asking him if he caught anything.

I had a phone call policy for neighbors when pond held water and had fish. Not surprisingly, nobody used this policy. As a result, just me and close family members were the only ones who regularly fished. Most trespassers whether out of town or local were and are "looky lous". The "neighbors" all know the pond died, and they all know I have now fixed it. So the pond is new, under an initial stocking process, and under strict management.....NO FISHING at all under any circumstances. I will be milking this for at least a year.

Lou,

Your approach sounds very fair. However, I worry a lot about fishing pressure and the effects it has on the fishing experience. This is the most difficult issue of pond ownership, to me. A complicating factor is that for most of us, pond resources are limited and most often do not support unlimited fishing access. We only have so much water and fish and both are easily overwhelmed by too much fishing pressure…either invited or uninvited.

I'm a big believer in fish conditioning, i.e. that fishing pressure conditions all fish to the use of artificials. Since my first choice is fishing with artificials, fishing pressure is a very big deal on my ponds. The only way I have found to deal with the issue of fishing pressure and still accommodate family, friends, and neighbors is to have multiple ponds.

As a result, we have a small kid’s pond, which is open to just about any kid wishing to fish. We have a slightly larger native LMB pond, which is within sight of the road and open to neighbors who ask permission to fish. The largest pond, located behind the house, is reserved for immediate family only. Then, to accommodate my own desire for really super high quality artificial-based fishing, there are/will be “performance” ponds…only one of which has been built thus far. This pond and those that follow are off-limits to everyone until the fishery is well established. I limit my own fishing in this performance pond to twice per year. Eventually, as other performance ponds are built and the fishery is well established, close friends will also fish them, but on a very limited, controlled basis. Those that fish these ponds will experience a quality of fishing that can’t be found in many places…that’s the objective, at least.

Old age and limited resources may overcome this approach, but it is nonetheless a journey, which I enjoy immensely.

ML, fishing pressure is a double edged sword.

One one hand pressure makes the fish harder to catch, which admittedly can be bad for novice fisherman.

On the other hand, rumors begin to get around that the pond is no good or fished out, which can be good, as most people are not that good of fishermen, especially freeloading neighbors.

A good fisherman will always catch his fair share and using advanced techniques, will become even better.

Is that kind of like 20% of fisherman catching 80% of the fish caught.

Shorty, you bet! I fish in one pond and put heavy pressure on it myself. You get somebody who doesn't know what they are doing, and they won't catch much.

Give me a $300 rod and reel, braided line, a red hook, just the right color worm or lizard or jig with just the right metal flake color, tipped with a chartruce marker and a little scent, and make sure a small glass rattle is inserted, and cast just right to the right pieces of cover I can smoke them, assuming it's the right moon phase and time of day and I use the wind direction to my advantage and don't give myself away by vibrations or loud clothing.

The run of the mill poacher won't catch the bass, with the kind of pressure I can keep on them. If there is no pressure, the fish are stupid and they may catch a 7lber on a rooster tail or cut bait and 6 pound test on their zebco 33. They might get the cats and brim though.

You guys who have people ask to fish your ponds make me feel anti-social. Nobody has ever inquired about fishing my pond, and of the handful of friends I have invited, thus far only one has.

I may collect and market my personal scent as a fisherman deterrent. Sunil, it could be cheaper than replacement windows if you send the wrong letter.

The bottom line is that poachers pretty well cleaned out my bass. I've restocked and am now pretty narrow minded. There are a couple of people with kids that come by but thats all that get in. Of course, I don't think the poaching has stopped. I don't live there. I was feeding last Saturday and saw a 2 lb. CC with a torn up mouth. I didn't do it.

I've had various "friends" ask whether I had deer on the property. Next question is whether I allow hunting. I usually say sure. Come on up. Then I tell them that they'll probably want to look around and see how the place lays. Next statement is that I'm going to be clearing brush just about every weekend and they can come and give me a hand; then I'll show them around. I've never had any takers and they never ask again.

I remember Sunil's thoughts when told by a local that he had been fishing there for years. Sunil responded that he should have bought the place when it came up for sale. My feelings exactly. Lou, after 25 years of being a nice guy, I no longer worry about getting along with my neighbors or providing a recreation spot. There are no rules to post.

Dave, knowing you, if somebody were good hearted, and had good intentions, and took you up on cleaning the brush, you would let them hunt and fish.

But like I say, many want something for nothing. That's what public lakes are for.

Sounds like the bulk of your problem stems from you not living on the land and people take advantage of you for this reason. I don't either, and had a 15+- ish girl come riding right up to my small pond the other day. We had been shooting firearms not 5 minutes previously, and could have hit her.

WELL said Dave. Somehow i missed Sunil's comment or would have commented myself...(DITTOS SUNIL). These comments are close to home. I've had the same conversations here over and over again with "neighbors" having come down w/ dogs and kids for years.....kids that grew up here, riding dirt bikes and ATVs in muddy pond bottom areas......leaving cig. butts, trash, cans, rutholes in road....especially in the first couple years we lived here.

At first I felt bad, wanted to be nice, tried a few times to nicely say this is private property now, lets try the telephone number thing if you want to fish or hike through.......but it didnt take long before I was telling everyone hey...It was no secret this place was for sale, now it is private property, it is my front yard, you had yer chance.....

A while back I set up a small (25 to 100 yd) and somewhat primitive gun and archery range on one side of the pond. I use them about once a month ....I believe its served as an added deterrent while increasing the recreational use of our prop.

I was mowing at our family farm this week when a guy stopped to ask if he could clean up our fallen in barn for the scrap tin roof. Said when he was a kid my granddad let him fish in the pond all the time. Funny thing though, we didn't put the pond in until two years after granddad died. No one has lived there since then. I suspect this is the same guy who helped himself to our two old tractors, bush hog and several junk lawn mowers. I now have his name and number.

Scallywags.

I tried the phone call thing, and some did, some didn’t. I would have guys showing up at anytime, including the ones who sometimes called. I asked the guys to catch and release, and I thought that was working till I came home early from work one day and the one guy I “trusted” had 2 stringers of fish, so I bought a 60$ linksys motion activated camera. It has a very bright light you can see from a long way. I mentioned this to a couple locals and told everyone the situation was out of control, and I didn’t want anyone fishing without me anymore. I started this last fall and the fishing has been great. Where I am, the Shenandoah valley, these guys pushed hard to hunt and fish. The camera thing is worth looking into. There are allot of cheap options out there. And it really did work for me.

Maybe it's a Texas thing but I've dealt with this problem for over 30 years and folks just don't get it. I've tried to be nice by letting a few neighbors fish if they would help keep poachers out. Didn't work, problem got worse when poachers argued with me telling me the neighbors gave them permission to fish. I've had realitives I've stopped at the gate going out with
a cooler full of fish, when they knew it was only catch and release. I've run the gammit of friends and family over these years and only trust my dad and 1 friend. Last week my wife and I were feeding our catfish, this is real small pond and is full of hybrid bream and 9 catfish about 6 lbs each, we even had nicknames for the catfish. well now I've only got 2 CC left.
I've had a grown man bring up hsi 5 year old kid saying he just wanted the kid to catch something. I say "OK but don't keep anything" the next week I show up and the same guy, but without his kid, is fishing with 3, 3lb bass on the stringer.

From now on NOBODY is fishing without ME being there. Sad to say but you can't trust anybody these days.

Our largest pond is 2 acres and we dug it 30 years ago. I've caught bass as big as 8 lbs and 15 lb catfish from it years ago, we have kept less than 20 fish from it in 30 years and the thing is fished now out.


I've had the opportunity to fish some remarkable places and always followed the rules but people today don't get it. I'm to the point now of just hoping this drought continues and all my ponds dry up and it won't be a problem again. From now on it's bullheads and green sunfish only.
But back to your point, the best reason I was ever given for not getting persmission to fish was "Sorry, but only my imediate family gets to fish here."

Dang, it sounds as though if you don't actually live on site at the pond that there are some real problems when you are not there.

Personally I think it's a good thing to let people fish and selectively harvest some fish, but you have to be carefull, give most people an inch and they will take a mile. Keep the list of people you will let fish short and if they violate your trust then don't let them come back again, friends and neighbors included.

I had a sign made for the front of my property that tells people clearly were i stand. In case you cant read the small writing it says "protected by ak-47" .

I like it wicked. almost as good as "tresspassers will be shot.....survivors will be shot again"


its just too bad we've had to come to these measures to keep people away, but when you work hard, pay the mortgage, try to make something nice for you and family, and outsiders abuse you, you get jaded pretty fast. not a lot of respect left in this world, i'm truly glad to be a part of this fine collection of respectful characters on the PB forum, gives me hope for the human race it does.

Tell me about it people have no respect for other peoples property.

I have enjoyed the comments and learned a good deal from them. Maybe the most important thing to glean from what has been said is that every pond is different, every owner is different, and every neighborhood is different.

Concerning ponds, mine has only the dam plus maybe 400 feet of shoreline accessible by land out of a total of about a mile, and “insurance regulations” prohibit letting my neighbors fish from my boats or putting their own boats in.

Concerning owners, if my primary interest were largemouth rather than bluegill, I would probably be a lot more strict about who could fish and what they could keep. (Almost everyone else in the area lives and breathes only for trophy sized LMB.) Also, being able to look out my window and see the area where someone could fish from shore really helps.

The neighbors are usually law-abiding and they love to gossip. If anyone were sneaking on the place (as a couple of deer hunters have been known to do), I would hear about it if I didn’t see them, and I make it a point to talk about how sad, but necessary, it would be to prosecute trespassers. My biggest concern just now is that I hear rumors that someone may be planning to come after my wild turkeys this coming spring. But, that’s a slightly different problem I am working on now.
Lou, 13.5

A friend of mine who grew up outside of Atlanta, told me that his dad got so fed up with poachers, he dynamited the dam of his own pond.

burger, I know of a nearby 4-5 acre former lake. The owners moved out of state. When poachers kept coming in, they just split the dam w' a beg piece of equipment.

I don't fish but bought the property for privacy, nature, the view etc.. I actually want people to fish sometime for the health of the pond but on my terms. The 2 acre pond is essentiall my front yard and most of the time we don't want to see anybody in our front yard. We've bought many trees to block our view of other houses, people etc.. My neighbor who actually lives closer to the pond than me wants unlimited access but I will not let him fish if he doesn't call/ask. He always wanted to trim around the pond etc.. but I found everytime we went to the property, he and his wife were sitting around the pond fishing,smoking and drinking. I couldn't take it anymore so I lost my temper and cut him off unless he asks. He hasn't asked yet. BTW, we are building our house and won't move in for another couple of months.

At this stage of my life, privacy is at a premium. We're moving 45 miles from work just to get away. The neighbor insist he will still trim the pond even tho he knows he can't fish...He hasn't trimmed it yet. Fortunately, our property sits up off the road and a person would have to be fairly bold to sneak in to fish. Also, I can show up at any time of day or night.

The only thing i worry about is someone sabotaging the pond; like putting washing powder, clorox etc. in the pond for spite.

Nice summary Lou....

off subject...we have large flocks of turkey, one year we had 70 birds on our driveway. every night from spring thru fall they roost in the digger pines next to our house (average about 6-10 birds). it is a wonderful phenomena guaranteed to please the casual visitor to our place. its so routine we have identified many individuals including one that has had a game leg for 4 years...we call her the old lady. as such, my wife wont let me experiment.......a neighbor says your better off w/ a supermarket butterball cause the locals are greasy, stringy, full of cartiledge, not good to eat.

back on subject
turkey poaching is a problem on my place as well. one small benefit, in ten years i have collected approximately 2 dozen high quality hunting arrows (alum or graphite).

good luck lou.

Before I bought my place it had been sitting in a natural state for years. The pond had been created, stocked, and left to fend for itself. My property is surrounded by properties of horse owners. I guess that the horse owners liked riding up the valley to my place and then around the lake and let their horses drink from the lake. The first time I looked at my place there was LOTS of horse manure and torn up ground from the horses. The fencing had be cut in several places to make it easier for the horse owners to ride around the vacant ranch.

I bought the place, mended all of the fences, posted No Trepassing signs, and talked to all of the immediate neighbors. One neighbor told me that another neighbor down the valley typically road his horse and carried wire cutters (I guess a renegade of sorts).

So I spread the word that the property was off limits until further notice. It hasn't made me the most popular land owner. Every time I see a neighbor out and about I stop and introduce my self and explain what I am doing with the ranch (managing the lake to improve fishing and improving the property). One neighbor made the comment that "Everyone has always used the pond, it's sort of a community pond." I decided that I'd had enough of explaining my self. So I just told him the ranch had been up for sale, anyone could have bought it, heck the could have all pooled their resources and bought it together if they wanted to keep it a "community pond." But they didn't, I bought it.

And now there's a new sheriff in town...

jeez, I think I've been watching too many Westerns lately.

Just keep up the 'new sheriff' attitude, Jeff. You dont need buddies that dont understand property lines, land ownership etc. Maybe one of them has a prized horse that you could ride at any time. Maybe get another set of keys made to the barn. Maybe even start a 'dude ranch', they provide their own horses and you charge for them to ride and water their horses on your land. Of course sign a damage waiver first. :rolleyes:

good catch burger....make sure the damage waiver fully explains release of liability (indemnification).....its a good idea for any PM that allows people to fish their ponds

Jeff, if they get upset, just tell them that you might like to drag their horse around by the jaw for awhile.

Regarding the guy that carriers the wire cutters, get a dirt bike and go to his place and enjoy yourself for awhile.

Like BM said, friendship and respect have to be a 2 way deal.

Thanks for the feedback, it's strange how people will act like you're a Jerk for protecting your property.

DIED, you bring up a good point. The realtor that I worked with in purchasing my place mentioned the same thing about getting a damage waiver signed by people that use the pond. At this point I have stopped all (legal) access to the pond but at some point in the future I may modify that.

Does anyone here use such a waiver? If so could they post a copy of it?

Jeff :

Stand pat for a while. In most states (and I am fairly sure Calif.) if people use property for a period of time they can claim rights in the land by adverse possession sometimes called prescription. You need to take steps to rule that out. Contact your realtor and seller and get an affidavit from them stating the facts prior to your purchase and that any use by your neighbors prior to your purchase was with the prior owners permission. If their use was with the owners permission then it can't become adverse or prescriptive. If you think their prior use may be a problem then think about that step. If not then at least talk to the realtor and prior owner and see what they say.

These guys violated my pond rule number 5, "Thou shalt not use explosives in lieu of bait."

Nov 25, The Nation, Bangkok. Two men killed, another injured while blasting fish off Chon Buri

Chon Buri - Two men were killed and another severely injured while they were illegally blasting fish near the Samersarn Islands off Chon Buri's coast.

Police said the group was illegally fishing by blasting fish habitat near the Rongkhon Island off Chon Buri's Sattahip district Thursday morning when a bomb exploded on their boat.

The bomb sunk the boat and killing two men abroad while injuring another.

The injured man and the dead bodies were later retrieved by other fishing boats. All of them were Thais.

Sounds like these folks should be eligible for one of those "Darwin Awards."

My buddies who helped build my pond have an open invatation(sp?). Also hunting buddies and neighbors have open invites as well. All my neighbors have ponds so they are not a bother. Basically any one who has small kids and wanna BG or CC fish are welcome anytime.

Donnie

Jeff - Sounds like a non- Darwin Award to me as they were at the very low end of having the tools to survive (as in low IQ).

ewest, there is a thing on the internet called the Darwin Awards which highlight the actions of those with less grey-matter than the rest of the population.

They improve the gene pool of the human race by removing themselves from it.

Yeah, Theo, but the process is sooo slow, added to the fact that they begat faster than they blow-up. If my guess is correct, they were drunk and the remaining fuse was too short. Being "thrifty", they discussed ad nauseam the best way to still use the fuse and still have money to buy more Mekong Whiskey.

www.darwinawards.com

There's some very funny reading there.

:D

we had mushroom hunters on our property last year we got back from vaction and they were out there. so i got the wise idea of dressing up in my ghilli suit and hiding. I caught up to them on our neighbors farm(these neighbors are very close family friends and im suppose to stop people from partying there). well i hid behind this nice big log and waited till they got within about 30 ft then jumped up and scared the daylights out of them. they havent been back since. As for the kids partying there is nothing i can do even though i attend a private school i still know these kids but no matter what i tell them they havent stopped partying