All right, anyone out there who is familiar with late model John Deere dozer operation I could sure use some advice. Next week I'm renting a JD 550 to dig a small pond. It has the standard hydro transimission, single lever steering/direction control, and a decelerator. The 6 way blade is controlled by a single 3 function T bar. I am familiar with older machines that have a hydraulic reverser and a lever for each function and I've never used a machine with a decelerator. I would greatly appreciate if anyone could provide a brief description and any helpful hints on efficient operation with these controls. For instance what does one use the decelerator for? The more time I spend digging versus learning the more pond I get for my money. Thanks in advance.

Think of the decelerator as a brake. It is for slowing down for more precise digging. I'm not sure what you mean by a T bar. I haven't ran a JD before. The cats I've ran had the joystick control for blade operation.

i'd like to help you more bz, hopefully there are some here who can....my exp. is w/ late model CATs and joysticks... new CATs also have a decelarator (it serves like a brake really).

IIRC, it (decelarator) needs to be pressed down all the way to start the machine....at least for CATs......new safety stuff, and you release it to get going.

My comment based on my experiences, is to keep the machine geared to minimize use of the decelarator...i.e. your leg will get wore out if you use it to slow down or stop all the time. try to maintain a consistent gearing so your speed and torque matches what you're doing (i.e. slow ripping, fast ripping, shallow scraping, deep scraping, pushing small or large bladefulls) and try to keep from using it all the time...i found it useful on steep hills more as an emergency slow or stop if i was starting to get into a little trouble, but on gentle slopes or flats was really only using at the end of a push or a rip to change directions, turn around....

good point by H2O, when i was carving holes in pond sides (cliffs), the decelarator aided alot in doing more precise digging.

bz, I used a JD 650 when I dug mine. The decelarator helps you to be more precise by helping slow your speed. The 6 way blade is a joy to operate. You will find the "t-handle" intuitive to use. You simply turn it the way you want the blade to turn. Back is up and forward is down, and all the way forward is float. Oh how I wish I was out there on one right now! Make sure you post pictures of your progess!

Wow, something that I can actually help with on the forum!!!
Waterloo is right about the blade, pushing it right to left will also tilt the blade, a must for cutting v-ditches and the like.

Think of the decelarator as a backward gas peddle. There will be a throttle lever, you will move it to set the rpm's at a constant. The peddle when stepped on, reduces the rpm's, push all the way down, idle. Like a backwards accelarator on your car. Main use is in shifting from forward to reverse, just like a car you would not do this shifting with the gas peddle pushed to the floor, does no good for a tranny. Plus of course as you can use this to reduce rpm's from a little to alot, it can also control your speed. The whole idea is that you dont have to mess with the throttle lever, and of course holding down an accelarator peddle all day would wear on you, so it works backwards.

more good points winston, however i found at least on the CAT if you use the decelarator a lot in place of the tranny to control your speed (given a set throttle position) you could wear your leg out that way too (decelarator was real stiff on the CAT)

particularly when i was doing long pushes out of pond, i'd put (and leave) throttle within fairly high rpm range, use tranny gearing to increase and decrease dozer speed if needed, and only use decelarator to change directions (i.e. fwd/rev. or sharp turns).

i'm w/ waterloo......you'll be havin more fun than me, i need to dream up a new project just to rent one again.

great topic, brings back some great memories.

True, but it a comes down to skill and mainly comfort level. I could bet the farm that I put a weekend warrior on a 9 and with the pucker factor, thier foot would never come off it.

somebody needs to add a pucker graemlin to the Instant Graemlins

Thanks for all the input. It appears that the decelerator would only be used when you need to slow down. On my JD 350 I have gotten used to setting the RMP up to working speed and then using the gear that gives me the power or speed I need to do the job. I have a manual shift on mine but a hydraulic reverser. This gives me forward, neutral, and reverse without having to clutch or touch any pedal. You can shift at any speed on the fly. How will this machine shift? I'm used to HST tractors where there is a forward and reverse pedal and then a shifter that sets you in a given gear range. For this dozer it sounds like there is no pedal to keep pressure on to go but rather the decelerator to essentially push in the clutch? Waterloo or someone else who's used a JD can you walk me through the starting, putting into gear, making it go, stopping, and reverse operations step by step? Thanks again in advance.

If you are having it delivered, the guy can walk you thru its operation. If picking it up, just ask and the rental place will be more than happy to assist.

Bz,

Haven't used the JD dozer so don't know the specifics on the controls...but wanted to cheer you on! What size pond are you going to dig and what time frame do you figure it will take? Best wishes on success!

I may be in the seat of a JD650 in a few days, and I will give you a walk-through if things work out. I've never operated a dozer, but thankfully I have a hole over 400'x150' in which to learn!

I'm having dozer envy! bz, h20fwlkillr is right, the rental company should go over everything in great detail. The last thing they want is someone destroying their machine or property because he didn't know how to operate it. The best advice I can offer is to watch your blade. It will take quite a bit of practice to keep your blade from digging in too much or losing contact with the dirt. As you go down a grade you will need to ease up on the blade to keep from digging in when you reach the bottom. When you go up a grade you will need to apply some pressure to keep it in the dirt when you crest the top of the hill. Sorry for rambling, but what I am trying to say is that it is easy to create a "washboard" effect and get frustrated if you don't master the "stick". Easy gentle movement. For me, I use light tapping motions on my stick. I find it gives me more control. You will find the JD very responsive. I prefer it to the CAT and Komatsu. Also, angling your blade will help keep you from digging in too much. Plan on spending some hours just getting the feel of the machine and the controls. Don't let yourself get frustrated. I wished I lived close enough to come over and help!

bz, sorry for not reading your post more carefully. I mistakenly assumed that you had no previous experience using a dozer. Sometimes I can get carried away :rolleyes:

Waterloo, that's OK. I'd rather have more advice than not enough. I have probably 100 hours sitting on my dozer and believe me I have created some pretty good wash boards but am getting pretty good at it now. I've rented excavators from this same outfit before and the good thing is that they are flexible and don't care what they rent to whom or if you have any training or insurance. On the negative side believe me they don't spend a lot of time training. They simply ask if you've ever run one before. If you say yes they drop it off and leave. If you say no, they tell you what each control is for and wish you luck. That's why I'm asking you guys for practical advice on the best way to use these particular controls to get efficient digging. Since I can't find any other oufits that will rent without me having an operators certificate and having my own liability insurance I'm more than happy to work with this guy. Plus he's only 5 miles away.
I will be digging in an area of about one acre. My intent is to dig the pond as large and deep as I can in two days (all I can afford). This is not going to be anything like Brettski's project for sure. Wish it was. Including fuel I figure this will cost me about $1000. Around here a similar sized dozer with operator is $1000 per 8 hour day plus fuel charge. My area is a natural low area for which the bottom is currently below the water table and thus always has some water in it. It has been so dry in my area this year that there is barely any water and thus it's a good time to dig. When digging such a pond it is important to dig as much as you can in one non-stop session because it will begin to fill immediately. The rate it fills depends upon how much rain we've had recently. Generally you can't dig some one weekend and then continue the next. It may fill too quickly to be able to dig efficiently at a later date. My plan is to dig at least 5 feet below the current water level so that in a similar dry year I will have 5 feet of water and in wetter years I will have more. On my other pond I succeeded in getting a planned 7 to 8 feet of water with this approach. I plan to make the pond horseshoe shaped so it has a point that protrudes out into the middle. The current depression where I'll be digging is more or less round and bowl shaped and thus some of the spoils will be used to make the point. I have a small JD 350 dozer so my plan is to dig like crazy for two days with the rental machine and just get the stuff out of the hole and then use my smaller machine later on to do the landscaping. I dug a small pond about 75 feet diameter and 4 feet deep with my dozer and it took two days. I hope this one will give me at least twice that size in the same time. I will get pictures!

The rental machine was delivered today. It is a 1998 model without hydrostatic drive so it controls a little different then what I found on the JD web site. Was delivered around 5:00 pm today and I had time to run it about a half hour to get used to the controls. So sweat. It's different then my little 350 but easy to learn. Six way blade is controlled by single T handle. Forward and reverse is on the left arm rest. There are two foot pedals for steering with left foot. There is a decelerator pedal for slowing and stopping with right foot. I got about 1/3 of the sod stripped from the area that will be my pond in the 1/2 hour of practice. Moves about 5 times as much as my little machine. Sure wish I had one this size. I know guys like ML have something like this and I have severe dozer envy. But no matter what you have it's never big enough. Wish I could have found a D9 to rent! I'll be digging for the next two days, maybe three. I'm already getting pictures.

bz,

Sounds like fun. We are looking forward to seeing the pic's!

Get 'er done BZ! And send pics!

Ran the dozer for 10 hours today. Went faster than I thought and I got about 3/4 of the project done. I'll post pics when I'm done and have more time. First time I've run a dozer this big, I moved a lot of dirt. Got a pond dug about 4 feet deep, about 300 feet long and about 60 feet wide. Horseshoe shaped. Can't imagine what a guy could do with a really big machine. What size machine is Brettski using? Tomorrow I hope to get it a little deeper. I'm hoping for 5 feet. This is a very small project compared to some of yours but it's fun anyway and I'll get some good experience for that day when I dig the really big pond. I have a 5 acre spot that's just beggin to be dug.

Well, the latest pond is done. I rented the JD550 and dug for two days. This thing moved dirt five times faster than my JD350. Here's some pics:

First is a picture from near by tree stand before any digging.

Second is a picture after it's done. The pond is L shaped. What you see is part of one leg of the L from same vantage point as first pic. You can't see the end of the leg to the right, you can see down to where it curves to the other leg on the left. Total length of this leg is about 250 feet. The other leg is same length. The width is about 80 feet. Total pond is about 3/4 acre. You can't tell but the hole is about 5 feet deeper than surrounding grade. In the spring the surrounding grade has a foot of water on it. So if this thing stays filled I expect 6 foot depth in spring and 4 to 5 feet during a normal summer. I figure I got a couple thousan cubic yards of dirt to do something with. I needed some fill around the place. This is going to be my forage pond and hopefully attract a few ducks.

Sorry, I haven't figured out how to resize the pictures so they don't show up huge.

bz, go back to your photobucket account and push the edit box, then resize to 50%. I tried it and it seemed to work for your images.

not gonna wait for the big pics to download, but from what little i saw bz, looks like your getting the hang of it.....i compress my pics even before i put them in photobucket cause they upload faster, i use the MS picture manager that comes standard w/ Windows XP packages on newer computers.

Well you're getting me all excited bz. Looks like a lot of dirt moved in a short time.

My friend's 650H LT is coming next week. It would have been here this week, but nooooo,,, he had to tie it up a week by installing a stereo in it.

Like your L shape. Sometimes I regret making my pond rectangular. I bet that 650 would make a small dogleg in it in half a day or so.

Yeah, go into MS pic manager and click "Edit Pictures" button...then, lower right, click "Compress", then pick whichever compression rate you want. I prefer "documents" as it compresses about 90% (file size) without making them so small you can't see all details. Makes uploading much quicker.

Works for me..

Bz,

Great job! Looks like you are ready for the big project! Come on down to Texas and you can practice some more...in fact, practice all you want.

Congrats and great respect for the DIY job!

Thanks everyone. I think all us guys get a great feeling out of getting a job done. I've got a lot of dirt moving and grading to do outside the pond but I can take my time with that. I'm envious of Bobad. Given the amount of work this 550 did as compared to my 350 I think the 650 would have kicked butt. I would have rented a D10 if I could have found one. Think I could have dug this pond in an hour with one of those. Your right ML, I've got a five acre spot that is going to be a pond some day and this is practice. I've only been to Texas once and I loved it. I know you have a dozer, what size is it?

Bz,

I have a Case 450C dozer which is perfect for ranch work, land/brush clearing, pond maintenance/renovation, and fence row clean-out...but not enough dozer to build a 5 acre pond from scratch in any reasonable amount of time. I'll rent the large dozer and track-hoe for larger pond building hopefully starting again this fall and continue to keep the 450 for general purpose use. They are really useful machines where property maintenance is involved.