I have a old pond about an acre, I want to expand it to about 2 1/2 to 3 acres. It has catfish, Florida bass and hyb. bluegill in it right now. The catfish is doing well in the pond right now, but the bass are all about 10" long. I would really like to put in f1 bass and coppernose bluegill into the pond after the expansion.
I will not have to drain the pond all the down to do the expantion but it will need to be brought down about 4 to 5 feet.
My question is would it be better to start over and restock or just do a survey and do a stock fish as needed?
Not sure how to display pic of my pond, is there anyone who could help me with this?
I will take a stab at this to see if I know what I am talking about.
The fish will spread out into the new area and balance themsleves out. That may take a few years for that to occur. If you want immediate results, then I would say figure your additional area and stock accordingly. If you add 1 1\2 acres then stock the bass and bluegill that is recommended for 1 1\2 acres.
My brother-in-laws family had a sandpit. They stocked it when they first started. As they would increase the size of the pit, the fish followed. They didn't decrease in numbers in the old part of the pit, they just increased to fill in.
As Mike said fish will spread out and grow (numbers) to fill the area. But you have some choices to make which could improve the situation. In addition your population will change during any drawdown .
First are you sure you will have enough water ? Lake drawdowns can have a positive or negative effect on fish dynamics depending on the situation. As they are crowded into less water the predators have a feast. But to many fish in not enough water can cause water quality problems and fish kills and can deplete your forage base. Drought can add to the problem by reducing already low water to none. Will you have enough water left to sustain your fish and to refill the enlarged pond in a reasonable time?
It sounds like you are describing a LMB crowded pond (many 10in LMB). That is a common problem which can be improved during the enlargement process by adding the right type and number of fish. A pond with LMB ,HBG and CC is not self sustaining as it does not have a sufficient forage base. HBG only produce a few offspring because of their skewed sex ratios where BG reproduce many times more and can be self sustaining. The result of your combination of fish will most times result in a LMB crowded pond over time. There are also other forage fish options to think about.
There are some threads here on pond enlargement, drawdowns and the effects on fish populations and management options. First you should think about and tell us what you want out of the pond (your goals). That will help you to focus on what you want and will tell us what suggestions and explanations to make.
The more info you can provide the better and surveys (there are various ways and methods)are how you get that info. Most times it is not necessary to just start over as the existing fish can be incorporated into the new plan , unless you have unwanted types (that can't be managed around) or bad genetics in the existing population.
Thanks for ya'lls input.
My goals is to have a pond with bass reaching 5 to 6 pounds and a few catfish as well. I will be feeding the BG and catfish with a feeder or possibly 2 feeders.
I realize the hybered BG will not support the forage for the bass, the stocking was done about 12 years ago by my dad. We really didn't understand at the time the HyBG would not support the bass. I would like to correct the stocking with coppernose and TF shade. Possible stocking of a few Hy Stripers as I unstand are pellet trained. I do not want too many though just a few for entertainment.
Since the bass I do have are all Florida Strain Bass and I wanted the F1 bass, could I stock Native bass with the Floridas that are already thier? Will that create F1 bass?
Will it be harmful to leave the HyBG in the pond with what I want to do? I don't think there are a lot of the left, but we do catch some that are pretty big?
Last spring I was cleaning some of the cattail out of the pond and I dug up what look like water dogs. I was about 8" long looked a lot like a tadpoll but was a lot bigger and it did have front legs. I believe people use the a lot for bait at Lake Fork. Is that good or bad to have in the pond?
Also, sorry about the spelling, that is not my stong point.
The Kansas Dept of Wildlife used Florida strain LM for their brood stock until a few years back. When they started testing LM in lakes they had stocked, they were not finding any genes from the florida strain LM. Apparently the Florida LM were not surviving our winters. The Northern strain LM are all KDWP has in their brood stock now. Alot of money and time was wasted stocking the Florida's here in Kansas. I know you are in Texas and the Florida LM are doing fine there. I am not a biologist so I am not sure if your native bass will breed with the Florida's to create the F1 or if that is done in labs.
Leebass :
With those additional facts and assuming that water will not be a problem my thought would be to see what fish may be left when you finish enlarging the pond. The timing may be a bit tricky but to know how much to add and what sizes does depend in part on what will be left. How will the pond be enlarged? For example if the plan is to dig out the new part and then connect them you could start the new fish in the new part and then connect them. How long until you start and how long will it take to finish and get water. Think about those matters.
If you only have a few HBG left then I would not worry about them and would at the right time add the CNBG and other forage fish. Some RES would be a good idea. You can mix the 3 types of LMB (Fla., F-1 and Nort.) together with out a problem. That is what we have done. That way you have some of each and all % mixes in-between. If the right 2 fish spawn (a Fla and a Nort.) they will have F-1s. Assuming you will have a few Fla. left after the drawdown I would plan on adding mostly Norts. and a few F-1s and they may need to be 8in. fish. You may need to find some advanced fingerling CNBG (4-6in) as well as 2in. to avoid predation. Waterdogs are good as are frogs and crawfish. The HSB should be ok but the TShad will depend on your water having a bloom and some open deeper water. They will die with low 42 degree water which may or may not be a problem. There are other forage fish you could consider like GShiner , tilapia , FH etc.
Mike:
That does not surprise me as that is what a number of studies have shown wrt Fla. LMB in cold water.
Bottom pic is my pond now, the top pic is what it will look like after I enlarge the pond.
Sorry, if it is hard to see, I am still working on putting pics in this forum.
Leebass,
I know you wrote these posts just before the big rains Friday, and your plans may be changing. Our office is 7 miles away from Collinsville, if you need some help one on one. If you need a contractor, we can help with that. If you need help with fish issues, we can help with that, too.
Leebass, many of our LMB have adapted to pellets and have grown much more than the LMB that haven't.
Also, I like HBG and wish I could keep them in my lake along with the BG. Unfortunately, I can't find any to buy that are large enough to survive predation. Their young are eaten before bluegill young so I can't naturally keep them in my lake.
Bob,
My place just missed most of the bad weather, all we got was about 1 3/4 inch of rain. I wasn't planning on starting my expansion till this summer. i have so many springs it is the only time dry enough do what I want to do.
