Last year I started clearing the trees and brush to outline where I wanted my fishing lake to go. Here in East Texas, the vegitation is extremely thick!!! Many places are impossible to walk through, and those that you can get through, will cut you up from the vines and thorns.

My goal was to outline where I would build the lake by driving my dozer through the trees until I got close to the standing water. Then I'd stay on the high ground and work my way around it.

Eddie

After I had a basic outline of where the shoreline would be, I took out the bigger trees with my backhoe.

Eddie

I used my lazer level to determine the shorline through the trees and marked it with orange paint and flags. This was to let me know how to adjust the trail I'd created and give me some idea of where the dam would start and end.

Eddie

Eddie,

I know exactly of what you speak!

I'm in the process of clearing 70 acres myself that was clear-cut 5 years ago. Talk about thick. In some places, it is so thick with youpon and brush that you actually get lost/disoriented on a dozer and just have to keep pushing until you find out where you are.

You have an interesting project and it will be fun for me to follow your progress. Keep us posted. Thanks.

p.s. what type of laser/level do you have and do you recommend it?

That's about as far as I got until this fall.

I'd just finished building my new house when my parents came to visit. My dad loves to run the dozer, but he's terrible at moving dirt. He can dig and make piles, but no finish work at all.

To keep him busy and take advantage of his free labor, I put him to work clearing the lake site.

Eddie

My Dozer is a Case 1550 with a 12 foot, 8 way blade, 160 hp and weighs 40,000 pounds. It's pretty good at clearing brush and small trees.

Eddie

It's slow process taking out every single tree. Especially burning the junk ones, cutting and storing the good ones.

Eddie

The bigger trees come out faster with the backhoe than the dozer. Here's a pretty good sized one that I took out.

Eddie

Here it is just about cleaned up.

Eddie

My neighbor was taking pictures of his place from his plane and got this one for me. The darker line across the clearing is me on the dozer scraping off the top soil.

Eddie

Meadowlark,

Your exactly right about getting lost. For the life of me, over the last year, I thought the lake was going to be long and thin. It's just what the trail felt like to me. I was totally blown away when I started clearing it and realized how wide and round it was!!!

My lazer is a Spectra L220 I think. Might be a L200. Anyway, I bought it used on Ebay for $100 after about six months of losing out on higher bidders. It's a kit that came with the lazer, tripod, detector and case. I had to buy a rod at Lowes for another $40.

The thing I liked about this is it's all in one case and very portable. Others I've used require several trips to get everything out and set up. I just grab it and go for a walk. Real easy.

To set it up, you have to align the bubble manually, but that's really easy and only takes a few seconds.

Range is around 500 feet in any direction and I believe it's within half a degree of accuracy at the extreme distances. With the detector, it daylight and brightness dont matter. On some cheap lazers that's a big deal.

I use it for foundations and pads mostly, but it's been great for determining the shorline and my dam height.

Eddie

When it's done, I'm hoping to fill it from rain water. There is a huge amount of land above me here that I can direct the runoff to the lake. Something in the range of seveeral hundred acres, but what I can catch is still a mystery.

My property line is this creek. Half is mine. It runs year round and even with the drought we're having, it's never slowed down.

I'm thinking of building a Ram Pump to take advantage of it without having to run powere down there.

Eddie

I'm familiar with the terrain conditions that
you're experiencing. I had a pond built on a
land tract north of Tyler near Hawkins. The
pond was built in a heavy wooded low area that
always some water on it. Water started to
accumulate in the escavation and a dozer got
stuck. The upper few feet of soil was all sand,
and the pond had no watershed. It was basically
a 1 acre escavation, but it was full of water
when I sold it a year later. Curious thing about
the pond was the all the small bass in a pond
that was never stocked.

This is the same area as the very fist picture here.

After clearing the brush, I took out a large tree with the backhoe. After moving the tree to the burn pile with the dozer, this hole filled up with water. It was fairly fast, but I didn't see it happen.

The water level has been at this height for several months until the rains the other day, now it's flowing over very slowly.

The water level is two feet below my shoreline and I'm thinking this is a keeper spring to help fill and maintain the lake. I really don't want to plug this one!!!

My thinking is that the drought has lowered the water level and amount of water for the sping to this level. But when the rains get back to normal, the water level will rise, and at the very worse, it should provide water to fill the lake up to it's current level.

Eddie

This is the other spring. It's at the bottom of the lake further along the same shoreline. This is the one that's got me worried.

I dug down to a point the ground was squishy like jello and water started appearing in my tracks.

I came back with the backhoe and dug it out about 4 feet, but in one corner I went down as far as I could. About 12 feet.

The deep hole filled up really fast, but the rest of it has been rising steadily. The sticks were put in at the edge every monring for three days. Before the rains, they were covered up, and today it's up to the edge. I'm not sure if it's rain water or the spring right now that caused it to totally fill up.

Eddie

This is the shoreline along my peninsula. I'd spent months trying to decide on how I wanted to build a fishing peir before ever considering the peninsula. Now I'm totally agains the peir altogether and really looking forward to building a gazebo at the end of the peninsula.

Eddie

That picture didn't show up for some reason, so I'll try again.

I do allot of posting on tractorbynet website and have an open offer to some of the guys there to come by and work for free if they want to run the dozer.

One guy from Wisconsin stoped by for a few days in his RV to take me up on my offer. Here he is building a dirt pile for my keyway in the dozer.

I'm running the backhoe and dumptruck back and forth.

Eddie

I forgot to mention, the peninsula is jsut behind and to the right of the dozer.

The scary spring is in the dirt pile further to the right.

The good spring is on the other side of the peninusula, but not visable.

The bottom of the lake where the backhoe is sitting is 12 feet below the surface when it's full.

Eddie

I left an opening in the dam with a trench down to the creek to drain it until I'm ready for it to fill up. That is what the big dirt pile is for. It's all really good clay!!!

The flat area off to the right with the red clay on top is a submerged island. It will be 4 1/2 feet deep. The sides are another 4 feet deep.

I'm building several of these all over. They are undesterbed, so it's less work for me and hopefull good for the fish.

My plan is to put water lilies on them along with a few logs and stumps. The drop off should stop the lilies from spreading and add to the cover for the fish.

When the burn ban is lifted, I'll start burning again. What is left, I plan to use as cover too.

Eddie

Eddie:

Pretty cool project. I'll be in Shreveport (maybe) end of March. If I knew how to run a dozer, I'd sure take you up on your offer...but I'd just be wastin' fuel for ya.

Sure is a beautiful project. I really envy those folks with the ability (and equipment, obviously) to tackle projects like this themselves. I just end up paying someone to do this stuff for me. Drives me nuts, because I've build houses and pole buildings and the like from the ground up. Irks me when I can't do something myself and need to hire a project out. Oh well...

That's it for now, I'll add more pictures as I take them, or if somebody asks for something specific.

The reason I'm posting this is to get help, ideas, and suggestions to minimize mistakes on my end. I'm learning as much as I can and really appreciate all the advice I've received so far. Thank you.

Eddie

Eddie,

Looks to me like you are doing just fine, just fine indeed...and you should be giving advice. People like you who have actually done this themselves can offer unique insight that goes well beyond the books and articles. My hat's off to you. May get to Tyler this spring and I'd love to come see your project and talk dozer stuff if okay.

Meadowlark,

I've enjoyed and learned allot from your posts and would love to have you stop by to take a look. Maybe even give me some suggestions and advice.

Eddie

Matt,

We're the same. I've built a few homes and barns, but mostly do remodels and repairs on homes. I needed a bunch of work done on my land and figured it was cheaper to buy the equipment and do it myself. Granted, it takes an awful lot longer!!!

Taking out trees and brush is the hardest thing to do on a dozer. Too many booby traps out there trying to take out a hose or bust something. I've had tiny little pines snake there way through my bottom plates and bust an oil line on the side of my engine block!!! Every time it's something new, and everytime it's one of those one in a million situations.

Digging dirt is easy, leveling it is allot harder, but like anything, it takes patenience and attention to detail. My Dad just doesn't get it. He focusses on one side of the blade and forgets the other end. 12 feet doesn't sound like a big distance, but for him it's huge.

The friend who was out here visiting had problems keeping his trenches level. He'd dig down too far, then over compensate and build a hill. In just a few passes he had a roller coaster!!! hahaha

Fortunately it was the bottom of the lake and there is no right or wrong way to dig it out, so I let him have fun. Afterwords when he was on the backhoe moving dirt, he said that was the first time he actually was able to see the land because he was focussing so hard on the blade!!!

Eddie

I've been lurking around lately just enjoying all the chatter. One thought on building a pond. My pond is a dug pond. I hired the first phase of digging and then dug a good portion myself. The guy that started my pond in an experienced pond builder, he gave me a piece of advise that turned out to be golden for my situation. He insisted that the banks should be as steep as the soil type will allow. The reason is to control rooted vegetation. I've ready so many posts about guys how have weed infested ponds but in my case the weeds can only grow within 5 feet from shore and where I have islands, therefore I don't have a problem. The weeds only grow where you want them to grow. I also have very dark colored water which helps this work for me. Just a thought.

Sorry, nothing I typed showed up!!! LOL

The picture of my backhoe is next the the spring I asked about in another post. It's in the bottom of my lake. I found water coming out of the ground after digging down with the dozer.

I stoped digging with it and brought in the backhoe. I dug down four feet or more in the whole area you see as a small pond, and then maxed out my depth in the corner up front.

I have a maximum depth of 14 feet and a flat bottom depth of 12 feet. I maxed it out. I also hit some small gravel at the very bottom. There are veins of iron ore on my land, but otherwise it's all clay.

The water level filled up the deep hole overnight, then the rest rose about half a foot a day. Just as the rains started, it was about full.

Now it's overflowing at a steady rate, but nothing to brag about.

The other picture shows how I had to extend my drainage ditch to keep the water level down. Rain and the spring are givng me more water than I'm ready for.

Eddie

Now for a question.

I've been reading about drains and the advantages of having one, which I'm thinking might be a good idea.

The picture is of two variations that I'm considering.

The top picture shows a drain pipe through the dam and the discharge pipe being at the height I want the water in the lake. This will keep the water level from overflowing to the spillway except for extreme weather.

I've seen this type of discharge around this area and think they are kid of messy with all the water splashing down from the height of the pipe.

In the bottom picture, I've added a down pipe after two 90's that connects into a discharge pipe after the drain valve.

Will this work?

One of my reasons for doing a drain line on the bottom of the pond is so it will also pick up some silt when the water level is up. Will looping the overflow pipe back into itself affect this?

My other question is about picking up silt. I realize that the suction from the pipe is limited to the imediate area when the water level is draining through the drain pipe.

What would happen if I used a perforated pipe and spread it out over a larger area at the deepest area of my lake? Would this pick up more silt over a larger area?

I sure hope this makes sense to you guys!!

Thanks,
Eddie

One more question.

Does it make sense to pour concrete between two anti-seep collars instead of trying to compact it without destroying the collars?

Would two sets of two collars, 24 inches square, 12 feet down on a six inch pipe be sufficiant?

Thank you,
Eddie

Eddie,

Looks like great fun man. I'm doing the same thing myself this year with my D5 on a somewhat smaller scale. With a regular drain pipe I wouldn't think you'd draw much silt, in fact, you need to raise the intake off the bottom somewhat to keep it from silting in, but with a siphon, maybe. Perf pipe might work if you did it right. I've never done this but I would think you'd need to cut the perf pipe to a particular length, then cap the open end. The total area of the holes in that length of perf pipe should add up to approx the same cross sectional area of the siphon pipe. That would give you a good velocity around the intake holes in the perf pipe. Too many holes and the velocity would go down around the holes.

I'd consider a siphon system if I were you. My pond will have a pretty good watershed feeding it and I'm going with a siphon and earth spillway for two reasons. The siphon will carry much more flow in the same size pipe than a regular thru pipe and the siphon pipe can go thru the dam near the top where there is less head pressure on the face of the dam. The siphon also functions as a regular drain pipe for steady state flows like springs, when it's not in siphon mode. I haven't installed one yet I'm just regurgitating what I've learned.

Good luck, looks great.

Thanks TN,

You bring up a good point. Will the siphon system work better?

Which one will have more suction for silt, especially if I do the slots?

Eddie

EW,
This is the first time that I have seen a stand-pipe BEHIND the dam as a principal overflow...probably reveals my relative rookie status at this. My principal spillway design will use a pair of 12" diam smooth bore corr. plastic drain pipes set at normal pool, horiz thru the dam and then angled downward (still within the dam) to discharge at point even with the grade behind the dam. The actual drain will be exactly as you depict in your dwg, minus any standpipes or the like...it will continue on a horiz (minimal slope) to a similar area just short of the principal discharge. I am going to leave the end buried at a point that is still below the frost line and mark it with a stake. I hope I never have to use, but if I do...a little digging and let 'er rip.
I would be concerned for a principal spillway that is deep underwater...what happens if it gets clogged? This is the reason I am using 2 principals...to increase the odds if one gets clogged. And, even then, it ain't much to clear 'em.

The siphon would create more suction than figure two with the valve closed (it looks like the closed loop comes up near the pond surface), but only when in actual siphon mode. When it goes into siphon mode you have a real head for the flow, depending on the elevation diff between the pond surface and the outlet of the pipe. Say the outlet of the pipe is 4 ft below the pond level. When siphoning you have a true 4 ft head, which creates a good bit of vacuum, about 1.7 psi which is pretty strong. Of course with the figures you posted above, you'd have plenty of head, way more than 4 ft. when you opened the valves wide open, in either figure you'd have a lot of suction with the valve open. But one thing I really like about the siphon is that when the water is really flowing into the pond in a heavy rain and bringing in a lot of silt the siphon kicks in without having to turn on the valve, so the siphon is drawing with strong suction during the event (without me being there), near the bottom where most of the larger suspended particles should be. I'm leary of any pipe thru the dam, so I like the fact that the siphon can pass thru the dam at a higher water level. I'm sure either way would work fine.

EW,
Unless I am reading your intent wrong, I would maintain serious concern for providing suitable flow for a principal spillway. You have indicated that you may have many acres of run-off feeding your pond. This, combined with the acre-feet of containment at normal pool, are driving factors in providing correct out-flow. It appears that your project may approach 30 - 40 acre feet...just a guess. If this is combined with 50 - 100 ac of run-off, your principal spillway pipe diameter better be substantial....likely a pair of 12" dia or one 18" - 24" dia. This is where I may be mis-reading you. It appears that you plan on using a drain pipe at the base of the dam as a principal outlet. This being the case, you will need a similar cross section as noted above.
IMO, I still shy away from the idea of having no riser pipe on the water side (plus a trash rack and anti-vortex baffle). If my assumptions are correct about your water volumes and run-off, you need to consider the massive rain scenario and where that water is gonna go. The goal is to provide enough water passage without use of the emergency spillway, knowing full well that in an armageddon, the emergency can handle the short term burst without damaging erosion.
You have a GREAT project going. I would hate to see you make a decision without all the possible angles on the radar.

Your right about the amount of water I'll be getting in a heavy rain. It will be substantial!!!

My plan was to have a spillway 20 feet wide and 2 feet tall planted in either bermuda, or st. augustine sod. If this erodes on me, then I'll concrete a lip and spillway to get it away from the dam and into the creek.

I'm thinking the drain will be a six inch PVC that will suck from the bottom at the deepest end. At this location, I'm hoping it will also take the surrounding silt out with the water.

The drain will have an upright pipe at the outside of the dam that will end at the height of where I want the water to be, but lower than the emergancy spillway. I'm thinking about a foot difference below the spillway.

That means I'll have five acre feet to drain through this pipe. With that much water, it should be a gradual process,but it should also pull quite a bit of silt with it.

The thing I'm likeing about the drain system going staight through over teh siphon system is the ease of lowereing the water level when I want. With the siphon, it apears to be a bit of a process, especially if it's cold and wet out. With a good quality brass gate valve, I can easily handle the preasure and know it will work every time.

The big disadvantage to the drain pipe going through the dam from what i understand is water leaking along the pipe. If I put in four anti-seep collars as pairs, and pour concrete between each pair, I'm hopeful that it wont leak.

How bad is my thinking?? LOL Nothing is in stone yet, just what I've picked up on this site, and hopefully put together into a workable plan.

Thanks for the help and suggestions.

Eddie

I think you need to make some mathematical calc's about your drainage. Meadowlark has great background in ho-made, DIY ponds...he and I both refer alot to Pub 590 for the basics. For openers, I will quote from text: "The principal spillway normally is sized to control the runoff from a storm ranging from a 1-year to a 10-year frequency event. This depends on the size of the drainage are. For pond sites where the drainage area is small (less than 20 acres) and the condition of the vegetated spillway is good, no principal spillway is required except where the pond is spring fed or there are other sources of steady baseflow. In this cse, a trickle tube shall be installed."
I think you are well beyond the described conditions. Personally, I think you will be making a mistake to presume that a vegetated principal spillway will reguarly handle the potential outflow that you may/will experience. The answers lie in the hard mathematics. What is your projected containment size? What is the drainage area size, soil hydrology, and how are these soils used (timber, crops, structures, etc.). This, combined with rainfall histories, can be plugged into basic formulae that will render a snapshot of what to do to handle run-off excess.
Regarding the drain pipe, this is where Meadowlark and I respectfully disagree. He maintains a valid posture that I understand and respect. I believe, tho, that it can be a positive device when installed correctly and I intend to do so. The experts that I have conferred with for my project (approx 35 - 40 ac/ft) lead me to a 6" pvc sched 40 pipe. I have purchased a victaulic 6" butterfly valve. I intend to use 2 anti-seep collars, both 48" sq. I am still researching the actual collar product construction. I am leaning away from the basic neoprene rubber and leaning toward the sold PVC model....tbd. I have no intention of using anything more than elbow grease, hand packed clay around both. Pub 590 also has formulas for frequency and location of application.

Eddie said: I think one main point as to whether or not this would be successful is how well you can fill concrete into the hole and around the pipe without leaving any voids. Are you planning on using pipe that is corrugated on the outside or smooth?

Does anyone here have experience pouring concrete around complex shapes?

I respectfully question the wisdom of a concrete pour between 2 anti-seep collars. The collars do nothing more than to stop the lateral flow of a trickle along the drain pipe...kinda like following a tree root. It creates a zone to force the flow to divert directly away from this easy route. As it is forced away, it is faced with finding a way to get back to this "pipe highway" to continue it's journey. A 48" sq collar hinders this return to the pipe by forcing the trickle to follow 24" directly away from the pipe, then 24" back (180 degree turn) to try to find it and continue. Creating a monolithe with concrete defeats 48" of travel, particularly the severe change of travel direction to get back to the "highway". Also, and I can't provide the hydrological answer here, but how good is the seal between concrete and clay, particularly if it is rough finished (compared to the seal against a very smooth medium like neoprene or PVC)?

Definitely a siphon would be harder to start up purposely. But I think the best strategy toward preventing siltation is to get it while it's suspended, removing the most heavily silted water while the silt is suspended. Once it settles out, it's difficult to dislodge from the bottom and a stationary pipe inlet wouldn't be able to draw it from more than a few feet away. A siphon system will let you buy a smaller pipe to remove the same volume of water during a rain event, unless you go and open the valve during the event.

My thinking on usuing concrete in conjuction with the anti-seep collars is compaction and overkill.

My thought is to use 6 inch Sch 40 PVC for the line running through the dam. The sides of the pipe will act as a drain like Brettski mentioned, but the collars will displace that path. I understand how this works and I'm in agreeement on using them. Using a solid material over a flexible rubber is interesting, but I fail to see the advantage. The flexible rubber is slid over the pipe very tightly creating a water tight seal. Any solid material will rely on glue or a seal of some kind to stop the flow of water. To me, this is a weaker design.

Compaction around this area is a real issue that I'm worried about. No way to do it by hand anywhere close to what I can do with my tractors. I can get real close to it and work around it, but to really get a solid seal and maintain the maximum integrity of the dam, I'm thinking concret would work. It would be a soupy mix more for filling a void than for strength, so a little extra water in the mix wont matter.

When you say your anti seep collars are 48 sq inches, do you mean 48 inches by 48 inches? I was thinking of 24 inches by 24 inches for 576 square inches of surface area minus the six inch pipe going through the middle of it.

Another option that I've wondered about for stoping the flow of water along the drain pipe would be along the lines of creating a small solid seep colar of less than a sqare foot. Glue and silicone it into place, then pouring concrete all around it to totally encapsulate the entire collar.

Thank you for taking the time to help me with this,
Eddie

On your team, Eddie...engineering vicariously thru your project to help me on mine this coming summer.
Pub 590 gets into the "seepage control of pipes thru the dam" issue to substantial detail. It does, indeed, speak of a concrete diaphragm to contol seepage, but is is used as a sole unit (not in conjunction with an anti-seep collar). It goes on to say that a collar can be used in lieu of a concrete diaphragm. "If an antiseep collar is used, it should extend into the fill a minimum of 24" perpendicular to the pipe.". All of this (and much more) verbiage is related to installation of a "thru dam principal spillway pipe system". This is where I extrapolate the need for a 48" sq collar.
I fully agree with you on the ability of wet concrete to fill the voids. I think Pub 590 agrees. Consider this idea: Antiseep collars are typically installed as singular units, spaced out along the run of the pipe. Take a look at this solid unit. It is the way I am leaning. I have had discussions with my contractor and he agrees that the neoprene collars with the temporary wood frame are a pain to work with and compact around. When I told him about this product, he was impressed and thinks it will be the answer. Drop down to the antiseep collar (it is within "conventional products"): Easywayplastics
If you haven't done so yet, I highly recommend that you start a nice fire in the fireplace, open a bottle of wine, and spend some quality time with Pub 590. There is alot of technical help in there...I found this link: Pub 590 link

Brettski

Thank you for the links. Could you tell me what the 48 inch anti-seep collar sells for? It looks interesting.

Also thanks for the link to Pub. 590. I did read it last year, but since then I've changed my mind on the overflow and drain several times and forgot about that part of it. I dug my keyway based on their advice.

I like the idea of just using cement around the pipe and not messing with the anti-seep collar at all. After I pour it and take off the forms, I can even silicone it really thick where the pipe and cement meet.

Thanks,
Eddie

EW,
The Easyway Plastics 48" sq PVC anti-seep collars go for about $100 plus frt. A 48" sq. Neoprene runs about $50 plus frt. If you find a better deal, lemme know. My contact at Easyway is Tom Rhodes, Ph 877-387-5472 or email via website. Tell him Brett from Ill sent ya...we have exchanged a number of e-mails in the past 3 weeks. I had him price the same unit in Sched 80...about $140 (in excess of 15' depth of soil, sched 80 pipe/product required).
I have a hard copy of Pub 590. It is v convenient for reference...at the finger tips...and gets used alot. Your USDA office should be able to getcha one. If it saves one boo-boo, it was worth it.

(edit) p.s. silicone sux...polyurethane rules!

Eddie,

Trowelable grade mastic (or) roofing tar works well to seal voids between your anti seep collar and pipe. The heavy stuff not the runny stuff; available at most hardware stores and much cheaper than silicone or other sealants.

Theo asked a very valid question: Are you using a smooth or corrugated pvc pipe? Corrugated plastic pipe is far supperior when it comes to "water pipeing" along your principal spillway. Each corrugation acts as a miniture anti-seep collar.

Using concrete as a collar also works well if done properly.

There has been some discussion on hand tamping pipe versus heavy equipment tamping.
Hand tamping pipe is an acceptable method of compacting soil around the pipe if it is done properly. You will need to pay careful attention when hand tamping the bottom one-half of the pipe, as not to bridge or lift the pipe from its "bed" during the tamping process.

I honestly believe that hand tamping (the bottom half) of your pipe is superior to many other methods. Its hard work but you will have alot of control over quality of the job.

Just my thoughts,

Ed

Ed,

My plan, which is still evolving, is to use smooth, 6 inch Shedule 40 PVC or SDR 35 pipe for the drain and primary spillway.

The smooth pipe has several advantages that seem to outweight corrugated pipes sealing ability. First it's better for installing a gate valve. Second is that I can install water tight fittings easily and know I have a perfect seal. Third, I can go back and repair or add to it easily.

I'll have an overflow off the side of the dam, on un-desterbed soil for the emergancy spillway.

I'll see how grass does on this, but if I get some erosion issues, then I'll pour concrete across it to carry the water away from the dam.

Thanks for the tip on the roofing tar. I hadn't thought of that one.

I'm starting to think about not using an anti-seep collar at all, but instead just using concrete. It I'll dig under the pipe 2 feet into virgin soil and frame above the pipe 2 feet. That will give me plenty of surface area, eliminate teh need to worry about compaction at that point and should seal off the pipe. For overkill, I can coat the pipe and surface of teh concrete with the roofers tar.

The pipe itself will rest on virgin soil, so compaction wont be a problem below it. I'll fill and compact it with my backhoe by driving over the dirt as it's built up until I get the top of the trench. Then I'll build the dam in lifts over the entire area.

Thank you,
Eddie

Eddie,
Just a FYI, virgin soil is not compacted. Compaction is suppose to be, I believe, 95%.
As Ed just stated, hand compaction is prefered around pipes through the dam, esp. drain pipes.
Think about what Ed said. He is giving you good advise.

Ric,

My thinking on laying the pipe on virgin soil is that it is already solid. Compacting aroudnd the side of the pipe makes perfect sence, than I'll use my backhoe and drive over the fill material on top of the pipe in lifts to compact the trench up to grade.

Avoiding voids under the pipe is also achieved by digging a flat bottom on the trench, or bedding the pipe into the trench with a shovel.

Thanks for clearing that up for me.
Eddie

My girlfriend took this picture on Sunday. The drainage ditches are moving the water out of the lake site and to the lowest point as seen in the picture, but I still have 2 feet of water left that wont drain.

The big pile of dirt on the right is for the core trench in the gap of my dam for the drain.

Once I'm comfortable with the best aproach to put in the drain, then I'll get on that part of it. So far I'm still reading and learning what I can.

Eddie

We're on one of the submerged islands. I like this picture because it gives you a good idea of the size of my dam. Lots of dirt there!!!!

Eddie

Eddie,

That is going to be one nice looking pond. I love ponds with timber in the background.

Now THAT'S an anti-seep collar...
(these are the product I mentioned a few posts back)


I just took delivery of 'em and wanted to share the product for "drain-guyz". .250" thick PVC x 48" square, 6" Sched 80 fitting thru center, male one side-female other side, caulked and SS bolted. Purty nice...purty 'spensive...but don't care if they work purty gud.

Brettski,

Very nice looking product!
Do these folks have a web site?

I really like the idea of PVC and/or PE (poly ethylene) material.
Many soils in this Country can be very corrosive to steel and even zinc coated (galvanized) steel.

Ed

Easy-way Plastics

Brettski,

Thanks for the picture and personal email about the valves.

I ended up buying the 6 inch butterfly valve from my supplier. He adjusted the price some, and worked with me on the accesories to make it worthwhile. He was still more than the deal you mentioned, but I'm confident in his products and don't know about that one.

I'll post some pics of the modifications I made to it, and the install, but not right now. Too much to do. LOL

Eddie

Good for you, Mr Walker! As goes most projects, this pond thing is truly another string of tedious, important decisions that must line up like a string of pearls...lest it results in costume jewelry. Whodathunk, eh?
I was thinkin' of you a couple of weeks ago. My right-hand gal (wife, bride, aka; boss) went and picked up 790 ft of 6" pvc pipe with the truck and utility trailer....found it on Ebay. I will have inventory way beyond need and likely wind up trying to sell what's left over when the smoke clears. The deal was too good to pass up.
-
(edit note)...hey, is the dozer back up and pushin? Did you get drenched last week (or so)?

Great project you did!

It's another rainy day here, so I've added some more pics to my photobucket account.

This is the 6 inch butterfly valve that I bought.

Eddie

The valve will sit at the bottom of a four foot trench. The valve handle has to be above grade, so I welded up this extension.

It's galvanized pipe that will fit inside a 2 inch galvanized pipe to act as a sleeve. My goal was to stop the soil from contacting the soil.

Eddie

The valve will sit between two six inch uprisers. When it's closed, the water will have to rise to the level I want it before it will flow out. Or I can open the valve and drain it down.

The wye's are from Lowes. They were five dollars cheaper for each one than the plumbing supply house.

Eddie

I bought 160 feet of SDR 35 six inch pipe from the supply house. It was half the price of Schedule 40. Since it's not a high preasure application, it's plenty strong.

The only problem with SDR 35 is that it has a different outside diameter than the Schedule 40 fittings that I bought.

Eddie

That last picture didn't seem to load. I'll try again.

Eddie

That last picture didn't seem to load. I'll try again.

Eddie

[img] [IMG]http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f40/okosongoro/Lake096.jpg [/img][/IMG]

I tried, lets see what happens with the next one.

Here is the valve in the ground. The valve extention is inside the yellow sleeve. I painted the extension and the sleeve with Rustolium primer and yellow paint to help protect them over time.

The SDR 35 is conected to the wye's with the rubber unions. They come with a single stainless steel hose clame on each end. I doubled this with another set of stainless steel hose clamps.

Eddie

I decided to pour concrete around the pipe to stop the water from following he smooth sides of the pipe. This will also be easier to compact, and give me a really good seal.

Eddie

One of the reasons I went with this type of drain is that I like the idea of pulling the water from the bottom of the lake.

I've been told, and it makes sense to me, that this will also take out some of the silt in that area. I doubt it will take very much, but no other method will pull any silt with it.

I haven't seen this addressed yet, but after the drain pipe was lying there, I started wondering about how to keep it from plugging up with other debri that settles to the bottom of the lake. It wouldn't take much to plug it up and make the entire thing useless.

After walking the isles at Lowes, I saw this plastic fence material. It's pretty heavy duty and solid plastic. NO RUST.

I built a tent shaped frame from 3/4 schedule 40 PVC and 30 T's. It's ten feet long and each side is three feet.

I have no idea of the volume it holds, but figure the two inch squares will keep out anything big enough to plug the pipe, but allow smaller stuff to pass through.

I also went with the tent design because I was afraid something heavy might settle on top of it and crush it. Now heavy stuff should slide downt he sides.

Eddie

I slid it under about a third of the way into the drain pipe. I was worried that somebody fishing might hook it and pull it out, but after backfilling the ditch and compacting it with my backhoe, it's in there solid. Several thousand pounds of clay will keep the pipe down, which will keep the filter down.

Eddie

The last storm that came through droped 4 inches of rain. I was curious about the drain and how well it will work, so I closed it and let some water into the lake.

Most of my shoreline is built up to divert runnoff away from the lake for now. Later when I'm done, I'll put some culverts in, but for now I'm trying to keep it as dry as possible.

You can barely see the top of the filter in this picture.

Eddie

Here's the drain doing what it's supposed to do!

Now I'm waiting for things to dry out to get back to my digging. The turbo is back in the dozer, but there's still a few other problems. Each one I fix leads me to one more.

Eddie

Looks good, but if I were you I'd form up around the inside of your valve pit and pour an open top concrete box surrounding the valve. You could put a steel or concrete cap on top. That would keep the dirt off your valve and stem, probably at least double the life of the system. But if you did that you'd need to install a pvc drain at the bottom of the box to drain any water which might accumulate inside. Sounds like some expensive repairs on the dozer.

I'd also be careful of the rubber unions. When the ground starts to settle they could be pulled apart by tension induced in the pipe. I've made 'custom' pvc adapters out of pipe or stock couplings by heating the pvc and enlarging it to the size you need by working the hot pvc over the size pipe you are adapting to. You could probably find a bell reducer that would adapt to the wye and you could form to the diameter of the SDR 35. Then you could glue it all up.

You, Sir, have been busy and creative!

Like TNHB the rubber unions would worry me the most. But they do make rubber unions for pressurized domestic water line repair (60psi), so they can be tougher than we might think.

If you have all that horizontal and vertical pipe fixed solidly, that should help the unions hold up.

P.S. Your strainer tent looks like structure - it might just protect small fish that draw big fish.

Not to question what you have done, but would it have been cheaper and easier to just install the stand pipe manifold as close to the end of the drain pipe as practical and just install two drain pipes beyond the stand pipe manifold and cap one at the end with a screw in plug? Just a thought I know the valves are rather pricee.. Looks great as is ... good luck..

TN Hillbilly,

Thanks for the pointers. I'm still undecided how I plan to protect the vavle assemble above grade. I've been thinking of just filling dirt until I have a mound to keep water away, then build a box that willcover it. I have quite a bit of Hardi Siding that works great for this. Once I know how high the uprisers need to be, I'll have a better idea on how to finish it off.

The rubber unions might be a problem. With both ends of the pipes exposed and such a short run, I have my doubts about how much movement there will be, but I don't doubt that it could happen. Since there's no significant preasure on them, I think I can get away with it.

This might be one of those really bad mistakes, or I got it right.


Theo,

Thank you sir.

I do a little construction around this area of Texas and have dealt with a few of the water companies. At first I was amazed that they use rubber unions for some of their repairs, but they swear by them. This is bigger than what I've seen them use on water lines, but it's very common on drain lines. I'm calling this a drain line and don't think their will be enough preasure to cause any issues.

Obviously I could be wrong, but my fingers are crossed and I did double up on my clamps!!!


Rockytopper,

A friend has the exact type of setup you mention. He has screw in plugs at two feet intervals that he can remove to drain his pond down to the desired level. He leaves the top one open to handle light rains and overflow.

To me, it looks messy. The pipe sitting in the air with all these fittings. Below the pipe he has piles of rock to cut down on erosion. After the water leaves his pipe, it flows down to his neighbors property.

In my situation, the pipe drains into the creek that is my property line. I own half the creek. I want to dump the water into the creek as fast as I can and keep it nice looking. Right now it's sort of unfinished in the pics, but eventually there will be bermuda grass growing around a nicely finished box of some kind to protect it from the elements and blend in with nature.

The valve was $150. Yes, that's allot for a valve, but thanks to Brettski, I was able to get a better price on it. There are cheaper valves and more expensive ones. I have around $600 into the hole thing, including pipe. Not an insignificant amount, but it's low enough that I couldn't use cost as a reason not to do it.

Eddie

Eddie, what I was trying to discribe would be identical to what you already have except the valve would not be necessary. Everything would be burried below ground except there would be two lines running to the creek beyond the manifold. The manifold would not tie back into it self it would become two lines after it. The intake line from the pond would be the one that continues to the creek and is plugged or valved on the end the other would remain open as is now. You would not have to be concerned with building a box to get to the valve. Not that it matters now anyway and like I said what you have is great as is. The fall back of doing it like I discribe is the elevation of the pond to the creek and the distance from the pond to the creek. If the creek is far away then so would the stand pipe have to be to limit the amount of pipe required sense it would be doubled beyhond the manifold. That is why I stated the manifold would have to be located towards the end of the run. If the elevation drop is large then stand pipe would have to be long enough to make it up. This in it self might be a reason not to do it this way anyway. Good luck and I hope the rain stays away long enough so you can finish. My pond is currently on hold because of the rain forcast. The contractor already had to pump out water from the last 6" rain and fill the hole back in with 2 feet of dirt to prevent it from filling again if it rains as forcast. They want to be sure they have at least 3 dry days to finish digging it to depth and plug the middle of the damm and install the drop structure.

Rocky,

Thanks for the clarification. Your design is different than what I've seen before.

There are two main reasons I installed the drain. I want to be able to adjust the water level and I want to have the ability to totally drain the entire lake if I want to. The valve makes this a very simple task.

I'm worried about plants along the shoreline. I have the dam at 3:1 to minimize plant growth, but from what I've seen in other ponds, I know this can be a problem.

With the valve, I can drop the water level several feet and kill the plants without affecting the fish or overall look of the lake.

If I know a really big storm is comeing, I can also lower the water level several feet before it hits. A few years ago we had 12 inches of rain in a week. The runnoff afer the second and third days was unbelievable!! We can also get 5 inches of rain in a single storm!!!! Rare, but it happens.

I don't know why I would want to drain the lake, but I like haveing that option. I know I'm taking a chance with my springs and leaving them open. This very well could turn out to be a huge mistake. With the valve, I can drain and pack them if I have to.

The disadvantage to your method that I see in my mind is closig the cap after it's been opened. With the water coming out, it will be very dificult to put the cap back on. It will also be hard to maintain a good seal with plastic threads after a few usus. How many times will plastic threads maintain their integrity? I don't know, but I do know there is a short life span for them.

Thanks,
Eddie

Eddie,

Any more sweet pics? Did you dig your entire pond with a Backhoe vs. Excavator...?

Justin

Justin,

I have a 3/4 acre pond that I dug five feet with my backhoe. The digging was the easy part, getting rif of the dirt took forever!!!

This projects is dependent on my dozer. I've been learning about turbo's and blowby the last several months, plus a few other projects. Nothing as exiting as moving dirt and finishing off the dam.

I did have a visitor over the weekend. It's not a native bird, and it's not afraid of people. It just wouldn't let us get closer than about a dozen feet.

Eddie

Hey, you raise egyptian geese? Or is that a neighbors?

Quite beautiful animals, but they are quite expensive to buy. I don't have money for exotics.

It's been a few months and allot of wasted time, but I've finally figured out what is wrong with my dozer.

It has a Cummins 8.3 turbo diesel engine. The turbo went out and I thought it was teh problem. Nope, turns out one of the compression rings broke and ruined the sleeve for the cylinder.

All the sleeves have some wear to them, so they are all coming out and while I'm at it, I'll just rebuild the entire engine.

Not what I wanted to do, nor something that I really know what I'm doing, but I need the dozer to finish my lake and work on my land. I'm too cheap to hire the repairs, so it's up to me to get it done.

Eddie

Eddie,

I admire your persistence and, in my experience in life, have found that such great persistence generally is rewarded with great things. I hope that to be the case with you and your project.


Now, after re-building that dozer and finishing your lake, you are interested in getting rid of that bag of bolts, I might be interested in taking it off your hands.

Hi Meadowlark,

Thanks for the kind words and encouragment!!

There's nothing more that I'd like than to not have a dozer anymore!!! hahahaha

But like you said, I need to finish off some projects first.

Eddie

Case has the rebuild kit with pistons, cylinder sleeves, wrist pins, bearings, rings and gaskets for $2,100. I'm buying new injector nozzles for $78 each, new exhaust bolts, new thermastats and all new water lines. I'll be into this for just under $3,000 and have a new engine for it.

My Dad had an RV with a 5.9 Cummins in it abuout ten years ago that needed a rebuild. The cost for that was $8,000

I don't know what it would cost to hire somebody to do my 8.3 Cummins, but that's sort of the number I'd expect.

Here is the tool I made to pully the cylinder sleeves and one of me on the dozer using it.

I will get my lake dug, I just have no idea when.
Eddie

I'm still working on the dozer, but have started makeing progress. The rebuild kit didn't include wrist pin bushings, and there was some slop in mine, so I had to order them from Atlanta. Then I ruined the first one trying to put them in myself, so I had to reorder another one. The machine shop said they'd never seen them that bad before. The mechanics I spoke to said they don't replace those bushings and just reuse them.

What I think happened is the piston was moving around on the bushing which resulted in the massive tapper on the cylinder walls. Number six was the worse, and when it got so bad, the rings broke. This explains why I had the huge blowby issue come up all of a sudden.

The worse of it is over now. Sleeves are in, pistons are in and the head is on. Now I need to put on the rocker arems, adjust the valves and start putting the rest of the parts back on.

Eddie

[img] [IMG]http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f40/okosongoro/May06006Small.jpg [/img][/IMG]

[img] [IMG]http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f40/okosongoro/May06013Small.jpg [/img][/IMG]

Sorry about the pictures. I copied and pasted the wrong link from photo bucket.

One of the side benifits to not working on the lake site is that I've created a natural food plot for animals. We're seeing allot more deer now in there feeding on the new grass and plants.

Wednesday evening we were watching 4 deer when this wild hog showed up. My girlfriend has shot one hog before, and it was a small one. This one is around 150 pounds. Not bad for her second hog.

Eddie

I started the dozer today and drove it off the ramps. I still have a few more things to put back on, but it looks like I got it fixed and can stard digging my lake again real soon!!!

Eddie

WOW! That is great Eddie! That is some accomplishment! You are the man when it comes to tenacity and diesel mechanics.

Eddie,


Be sure to give me first crack at that bucket of bolts. ...when you try to unload it.

One consolation, you really haven't lost that much lake time anyway because of the lack of rains.

Eddie,

I am tremendously impressed with your pond and the work you’ve done from designing your pipe system and handling the engine rebuild!! I look forward to you future postings. This thread has been a great read. Also, a great looking girlfriend that likes to hunt; you da man.

Flatlander,

Haven't seen you on the board in quite awhile. Glad to see you are still with us. On a side note, how did the family homestead (Mississippi)do during last years hurricanes? I think thats the last time we heard from you.


Russ

Russ :

Don't know how Flatlander's home place came through but the Natchez area in general came through the storms ok.

Thanks Eric. Hopefully all is well.

Flatlander,

Thank you. As of yesterday, she is no longer my girlfriend, but now she is my fiance!!!

The dozer is running strong and I've spent ten hours running it fairly easy by scraping my roads and a pasture. Sort of just smoothing out some stuff without stressing the engine too much to break it in. I know ten hours aint much on a diesel, but I'm a nervous nelly about it. hahaha

I have a few things to do this weekend and plan to start digging again on Monday. I'll post some pictures as I make progress.

Thanks,
Eddie

Congratulations !! Have you set a date. Best wishes for a wonderful life together. Patience and remember the count rule. Any time you start to get mad -- stop and count to ten before you speak or act.

Eddie,

My congrats on your dozer...oh, and on the other thing too!

I hope you will invite me out to see your finished lake next spring when I return to Tyler Fish Farms. I would really like to see it and congratulate you in person for all your accomplishments.

p.s. if the timing is good for you and you are interested, I would love to help you stock the big lake next spring. Just let me know.

Eddie shares the great news (and it trumps the news that the dozer is kickin' again) Congrat's, big time. If you keep this thread alive, you can post the wedding pix right here! :p (I'll bet takin' down that hog with one shot tipped the scale )
...super happy for da bote a ya's!

You beat me to the punch, Brettski. If you cant outshoot 'em, you better marry 'em. Congrats, Eddie, and thanks for sharing the construction pics. I have learned a lot for if I ever get to rebuild mine.

Thanks for the kind words. We're looking for places to get married right now and leaning towards the mountains in Colorado or Wyoming.

In the meantime,I've been digging!!!

This is what I watch all day long.

It still amazes me what is level and what my eyes think is level. Since I know not to trust my judgment, I get out the lazer every couple of days to see what's going on.

Eddie

...ya gotta luv the look of gold rollin' off the top of the blade!

It's been a good week of moving dirt!!!

I piled up my topsoil and about half of my burn pile back behind where the dam. The pile was pretty large and not compacted, just sort of put there as quick as possible so I could get down to the clay for the dam.

The dam is in place and now it's time to backfill.

Eddie

After I spread out the topsoil, I put another two feet of clay over it. While I did this, I also added a bit to the dam.

Eddie

After I spread the topsoil and bad dirt, I covered it with two feet of clay. I just dug from the bottom of the lake and pushed it up the dam.

Eddie

This is the shallow end of the lake and when full, there will be 6 feet of water. I'm still digging and as long as it's dry out, I'll be taking more dirt from the bottom.

Eddie

This is what it looks like at the top of the dam. I want this to be a flat grassy area that is allot wider than the dam. Kind of like a place to have a picnic, or maybe set up the tents and camp out.

Eddie

This is the view from the other side just to give some perspective of how it turned out. I have mental pictures of what I'm trying to create and it's what I see while I'm working.

What's nice is when it turns out better than I hope for!!

Eddie

To smooth out my tracks and the rough spots, I drag a heavy oak log with a cyclone fence wraped around it behind my Century tractor.

The yellow case on the front bumper is my lazer level.

This view is from the back of the dam and one day it will be covered in bermuda grass. Hopefully soon.

Eddie

Eddie, looks great. The pictures really help. When do you find time to sleep (posting at 1:25 AM)?

1:25am

What's the saying "early to rise" and some such? hahaha

OK, Steph and I are watching the series 24 on DVD and once we put in the DVD, we're up until the last episode.

Eddie

eddie,

Looks like you seeded just in time, take a look at the radar...I hope you catch it just right. Pond looks great.

Gator

Eddie, I hate to get of subject, but I've blown thru season 1 & 2 of 24 and will start #3 tonight. I don't know about you, but I think that
David Palmer's the best President we've ever had - except, of course, for Ronald Regan.

Rmedgar,

hahahaha Yeah, he's what we always dream of in a leader, but somehow it's never happened.

We've been hearing about the show for awhile, so ordered it from Netfix. After watching the first disk, we were hooked, but unfortunately, they sent us season 2 first and we didn't realize it. haha So we watched all of season 2 and are now on disk three of season 1.

Allot of it is pretty rediculous, especially the urgency they create for their emergancies, but since we enjoy pointing out the silly parts to each other, it's allot of fun.

We still can't figure out what the reason for the daughter is in the show except to frustrate us with one bad decision after another. hahaha

Gator,

I'm watching the radar, but nothings happening. It's like somebody wants to keep Texas dry until I finish digging!!!

Eddie

Eddie, that poor daughter has seen a lot of adventure for an 18-19 year old. That show couldn't exist without the cell phone.........ring "Bauer: how's my daughter, cross-check an apple, a broom and a Buick, get back to me"....click. Nobody ever says goodbye - they just hang up. Oh well, I like it.
Randy

I decided to measure how long my dam is today. It's not exact, just a wheel that measures distance.

My dam is 940 feet long.

Eddie

What the mutha pond meister is going on here!

A dam over 900 FT long, oh crockie!

Either you are going to have a good-sized lake or you have been dealt some bad luck in your local topography!

Your right, I really should call it a dike or a levy. I don't have a good place for a lake, so I did it the hard way and dug out a low area and built up the sides.

Eddie

Eddie,

Its nice to see the progression of this project. Thanks for taking the time to post updates and pictures.

I've been a little distracted from this project with the my wedding. We eloped to Boulder, CO.

Eddie

The lake is basically done. There is still some dirt in the bottom that I'd like to get out, but I'm just being greedy. If I did nothing else, it would still be well beyond what I'd hoped or even planned for.

I have 12 feet of depth at the deep end with 8 feet through most of it. There is an area that is only 4 to 6 feet deep, so I'm trying to bring that down to 8 feet as well.

Here are the dirt piles I need to haul out.

Eddie

The dozer isn't very efficient at moving dirt very far. I have an 8 way blade on it, and it's better for digging and shaping. The manuel says it's rated for 3 yards, which can add up real quick, but not over any distance.

My dump truck is a 1983 Ford F-600 that can haul 6 yards at a time. It's cheaper to run than the dozer and can move the material allot faster!!

The problem with old equipment is it wears out, or is never maintained.

The truck has a 370 gas V8 that lasted me a year, but it's got nothing left. The clutch is also worn out and there are a dozen little problems with it that I've been dealing with.

My Dad is visiting me, so we decided to pull the engine and tranny. I put part of a chery picker on my bachoe bucket to pick it up, which works really well.

The pistons were much worse than I imagined. I think at one point, somebody put the wrong sized spark plugs in and they broke off in the combustion chamber. All the pistons had the same marks on them, but two were as bad as the picture.

Eddie

The block had already been bored .60 over, so it was junk. I had to get a replacement block for $250 and still had to have it bored .40 over. All the exhaust valves were junk and they cost $40 each. The exhaust manifold was coroded away in places and needed to be welded up and machined flat. This plus the normal machine work, plus new oil pump, camshaft, timing gears, gaskets, bearings, pistons and the other stuff came to $1,600. The new clutch, filters, belts and fluids was another $400.

My step-son loves to help, so this was a dream come true for him. He got to tighten all sorts of bolts and dig through the wrenches to find the right size. What's realy funny is how good his eyes are. He can tell if a bolt is 9/16 or 5/8's from a distance just looking at it!!!

Now I have a brand new engine that fired up on the first try!!! She runs smooth and has a huge amount of power. I barely give it gas and she goes!!!!

Eddie

Yee haw...congrats on the nup's, Mr and Mrs Walker! Handsome groom, stunning bride, and a backdrop of the Eddie's next project inspiration for increasing D.O. in his lake.
Ed-man, outstanding job with the lake. You set a bench-mark for DIY that I can only aspire to. You must be very satisfied...it's a beaut!
Is that a shot of the top of one of the pistons or a telephoto of the moon?....smoked!

Congratulations, Eddie.

This is the first time I have looked at wedding pictures and engine rebuild pictures back-to-back. I looks like you did a good job on both.

I've said it before and its sure worth saying again...Eddie, you are the Man!

You do indeed turn ideas into reality and don't let minor ( ) things like engine overhauls stand in your way. You should consider writing a book about your project. It would be an inspiration to many. It is certainly an inspiration to me.

What a great story. I hope you kept a day by day journal throughout the whole project so you can write the book! I built my own house from clearing the land to painting the walls. I religiously kept a journal and it's a hoot to read. BTW I just smoked the engine on my dozer. Needs a rebuild. I'll drop it off if you'll do her for me! That's right you just got married. Probably don't have the time. You got a great find there if your new wife shares you pond aspirations.

Congrats Eddie!
I trust your new bride shares your enthusiasm for pond and engine builds?
Great ongoing thread by the way.
Ed

Thank you for the kind words and encouragment. While waiting on a part of the brakes of the dump truck, I decided to put a few culverts in.

The way my lake lays, the watershed comes down the hill along three low areas. The first one will be the biggest and it's along the property line. I'm leaving it open all the way to the lake. At a poing that lines up with the path around the lake, I'll build a small bridge.

The other two routes for the water to travel will be channeled through two culverts. One 18 inch and one 15 inch.

This picture shows my shoreline road.



First I had to figure out where the best spot for it was and lay it out.


Then I dig a hole, put the culvert in it and compact the soil.



Eddie

The dump truck is up and running. In fact, it's running VERY STRONG!!!! Kind of hard to even compare what it was like before and now. hahaha

I've started moving dirt now and it should be a day or two until I get all the dirt out.



I want to build up the top of the dam into a wide picnic area. It's not a strutural thing, just cosmetic with the benifit of creating a nice picnic area in the trees with a fantastic view of the water and trees.



Eddie

I've hauled the last of the dirt out of the lake that I'm gonna get, and now it's ready for some water!! I still have some logs that I want to burn, but will have to wait for the burn ban to be lifted.

I dragged the outside, top and part of the inside of teh dam with my log wraped in chain link fence, then threw out a bunch of unhulled bermuda seed. In time, it will be nice and green!!!

Eddie

very nice. very nice.

Looks like the drought is over for winter and I'm getting rain about once a week. Nothging huge, just an inch or so at a time.

My grass is starting to grow everywhere I planted it, but it's slow and you have to look real close to tell. I'm hopeing we still have enough warm days for it to get established.

The storm that came through about two weeks ago did some damage to one of my culverts. The water came at it hard and fast, which caused some erosion around my pipe. I was hopeful that this would't happen, but after it did, I had to fix it.

I like 40 pound sacks of readi mix with rebar hammered through it. It's cheap, effective and even looks good.

In front of the entrance, I dig a pit to collect silt. Last night I got an inch and a half in 20 minutes, which just about filled up my silt pit.

There is about 4 feet of water in the lake right now. I need about 8 more feet to fill it up.

Eddie

Awesome, Eddie. Gotta make ya smile, I bet. Tune me up a little. Do I remember correctly that you have major league drainage coming into your project...right? Does it all funnel down & go in through the pipe in the above pic? Oh yeah, is that the famous Walker .25 mile-long dam in the background?

Hey Brettski,

There are two culverts. This one is 15 inches and the small one. It doesn't get very much runnoff, but the speed of the water coming to it is pretty severe.

The other culvert is 18 inches and it gets about ten to 12 acres, give or take. It's kind of tricky guessing which way the water will go and how much my roads will divert to this culvert. The water comes through a wooded area and kind of snakes around some good sized trees before it gets to this culver, so even though it gets allot more water, it's comeing at the culvert allot slower.

The main water source is from an open trench, dry creekbed that runs along my Western boundry. This gets the runnoff that breaks away from the 10 or so acres that feeds the large culvert, plus the land on the other side of the property line and then the land above my property.

This could be getting anywhere from 20 to 40 acres. It's heavily wooded and dificult to tell where the water changes directions on it's way to the drainage.

The drainage, or dry creekbed, has been there forever. It's one of the reasons that I based my size of the lake and it's location.

Eddie

We haven't had any rain to speak of this month, but I've been pumping water into the lake almost 24/7. If I run low on oil, or it gets dirty, the engine stops, but otherwise, it's running non-stop.

The first picture shows the water level shortly after I started pumping on November 9th.



This picture shows what it looks like a few days ago. You can see the rise of the water on the log. It's sort of my guage to measure progress.



Here's a view of the lake from Wednesday.



Eddie

Ed-man...you're kickin' my butt. It is comin' on good. You are sure gettin' your money's worth outta that Ebay pump, eh?
Another very cool pool comin' atcha! Good show, Eddie.
What does your bride think about this project? Does she have any special plans for stuff like a diving raft, small pontoon boat, or picnic shelter big enough for Eddie to sleep in when he's been a bad boy? :p

Here's the latest pics of my lake.

This is on November 9, just shortly after I started pumping water in.



This is today, December 6th. The log is just about under water now, and the water line is climbing up the stump. The submerged island is actually submerged!!!!



This was taken today as well to give an idea of the overall look of it. Some of my logs came loose and are floating around, but mostly what you see sticking up though the water is the remains of my islands and structure.



Thanks,
Eddie

I'm really getting jealous looking at these big new ponds filling up. I'm getting tired of looking at my two 1/2 acre ponds and I'm thinking I need to start planning my 4 acre pond.
Hey Brettski, where's the latest picture of your pond with more water? I really can't wait to see yours next spring when it's full.

C'mon, now bz....this is Eddie's thread. He's worked pretty dang hard to create 10 pages (so far)
(FWIW, spring '08 might be closer for me; I don't have a substantial watershed. Updates on Pond Growth thread )
Eddie, I owe ya a link.

Sorry, didn't mean to hijack!

I gave up on the pump awhile ago. After about 80 hours, it wouldn't keep running for very long. I got quite a bit of water from it, so it wasn't a total bust.

Christmas eve I received over 2 inches of rain and right now I figure I'm close to 3 feet from being full. Rainy season is still a few months away, but I'm sure I'll get another foot or so before then.

This picture was taken yesterday.

Eddie

Eddie,

Your lake looks great. I'm really envious of the surface area you and Brettski have. Mine will amount to an acre at most, but that's the limitation of my terrain. Pumping water gives a great appreciation of the power of the sun to lift all that moisture into the air thousands of feet and drop it back as rain. Keep the good pics coming.

Hillbilly

What happened to the pump? Did the engine stop running or did the pump stop pumping? Just curious because I was contemplating buying one similar to yours.

Hillbilly,

Thanks. I am amazed by the size of it every day when I go look at it. Rain or not, I have to see what it looks like. I saw my first duck swimming in it the other day!!!

Keith,

The pump still works, but due to a combination of errors on my part, I didn't get near the water out of it that I could have. First, I didn't realize how often I had to change the oil and it would die on me for half a day. I'd change the oil and it would run non stop for two days, but then it would die on me. It only holds half a quart of oil, so it wasn't a money thing, just ignorance on my part. Once I figured out to change the oil every other day, it ran great for over a month.

Then I started to have other problems. It would die on me without an apperant reason. I thougth it was a short or a wireing problem, then I thought it was a fuel dilivery problem. Finally I changed the spark plug and it ran good again for awhile.

It seemed to have less power and I made a big mistake thinking I was losing power from usage. Then a guy over at TractorByNet suggested that my intake might be clogged. I moved the pump to pull the intake up about four feet and the volume coming out of the hose doubled. OOOPS. hahaha

Being a little smarter now, I think I could have filled it up if I didn't make all those mistakes and take so long to fix them.

If you want all the details, I did a very detailed account of the whole process at http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/projects/52101-creating-lake.html

It's 36 pages long with 714 posts as of now, so you might not want to go there without plenty of time to kill. hahaha

Thanks,
Eddie

How big was the lake suppose to be when full? Probably was said somewhere in the posts, but I get lost easily. :rolleyes:

Lance,

When I laid out the location of the dam, I figured five acres. Once I started building up the dam, it got thicker and thicker to the point that I'll end up with 4.3 acres when full.

Just a note on the pictures with my wife in it. The angle is kind of deceiving. When full, the water will be up to her waist.

She's in camoflage since we'd been out hunting all morning.

Eddie

Eddie,

I just finished reading the entire thread on TBN. A truly immense project with many hours of work. Congrats on your diligence in research, design, and construction.

Any timeline on completion of the RV resort? Would love to come up and spend a weekend checking everything out once it is completed.

Once again, congrats and can't wait to hear about the progression of your fish population.

Keith,

If you really have some time to kill, read Eddie's thread on building his own house. I used to think of myself as being handy. Quite humbling.

Keith,

Thanks. That must have taken a few hours to read the whole thread!!!!

I gave up on the timeline for the park a few years ago. hahaha I'm working on clearing the land and getting all the dirt work done. When that's all ready, then I'll move to step two. As it is, the land is paid for, my home is paid for and the tractors are paid for. I'm debt free and kind of like it that way. hahaha

Sandbox,

I'm glad you enjoyed that thread. It's really turned out to be a very nice little home that we're very happy with.

Eddie

I received 1 1/2 inches of rain last night!!! Every time it rains, it's a big family event here. hahaha

This is my spillway on December 6, 2006


This is my wife standing on the spillway today, December 30, 2006


Lake Marabou on December 30, 2006


Thanks,
Eddie

Hey Eddie,
How long do you figure that gator is in the second pic? Glad you got some measurable rain!

Wow, Eddie...simply fantastic!
I remember right from the beginning that you indicated a substantial inflow of drainage. Are ya confident that your earthen spillway is ready for the rush? If not, hook up the pipeline and send a bunch to me.
(on a lighter note, is it safe to assume that Texas water is miscible with midwestern water, or any other for that matter, without violent reaction?)

The blue line gives an idea of where the water will be when full. The red lines show the path the water will take when over flowing down to the creek. The arrow shows the location of the creek.

It's very level for over two hundred feet, then it drops off into the creek. Originally, the land was lower before the creek and the water traveled for more than a thousand feet to the place it entered the creek. This is one reason I chose this location, because of the natural bowl shape of the land. There was a four foot difference from the creeks edge to the middle of the lake.

I smoothed and shaped the spillway area to make it as flat as I could to carry the water away from teh lake with very little speed. No speed means less erosion. Or at least, that's my plan.

Eddie

Eddie from reading your post looks like you are in the Red Springs or Winona area. I live in Quitman and would love to come up and look at your lake. I work around the Tyler State Park area. Are you close?

Rich,

I'm just down the road from Winona. Feel free to PM me and give me your email address.

Eddie

I received an inch and a half of rain last night and the lake is up a few more inches. I'm thinking about buying a yard stick and putting it in the ground just to get an accurate measurement of how much water I get compared to how much rain comes down. I understand there are alot of variables, but it would still be interesting to see.

Steph took this picture two nights ago.



This is my silt pit. I dug it out the other day and you can see the dirt pile to the left. Water is still flowing through the culvert several hours after it's stoped raining.



This is why I need a yard stick. The changes are there, but you have to be here to see them. I'm guessing the lake is up another four inches after that rain, but it's just a guess.



Thanks,
Eddie

Eddie,

That's a very useful number to have...when another dry spell hits you will know exactly how much rain is required to fill it back up...or very close estimate.

I'd be interested in your number if you don't mind. The big(relatively)pond I built several years back has a very low amount of drainage....something like 3 acres of watershed for a 4 acre pond. My number for that pond is 2/1, i.e. 1 inch of rain wil produce a 2 inch rise in the water level. On another pond I built with lots of water shed, not surprisingly a 1 inch rain can result in an 8 inch rise, but it fills up so fast that I haven't been able to calibrate it well.

Ok...this is a little "zen" like, but your pond will reach that spillway and water will go over it for the first time only once....for me that was a moment to cherish and always remember.

On the same note, I've watched mine closely after closing the valve and have some numbers to consider. My watershed is about 15 acres according to the topo map. All of it is wooded save an acre or so of small food plots. Last weekend I calculated that my pond recieved an est influx of about 60,000 gallons of water out of about 305,000 that fell on the 15 acres as rain. This is almost 20% which I thought was pretty good. I guess it all has to do with the rain rate and what the ground conditions are before the rain sets in.

If you are still wanting some ideas you can email me at ottosdirtservice.com or call my office mon to fri from 8 to 12 and I'll set up a phone appt.

Sorry I left my office number 940.665.2258

Meadowlark, I'm certain that the most macho of the macho here, the men's men, and there are many here I'm certain, will be understanding if any male pond/lake owner sits down and weeps with tears of joy upon watching what you have described.

This is the common bond most of us share here, despite all other differences, adn it is a strong one.

I couldn't find tears of joy Graemlins, Robinson, or would have used those.

You guys talked me into it. I went to Lowes today and bought a yard stick. I put it in at the waters edge in front of my spillway, then got down on the ground and adjusted it to get it as close to level as I could without getting the laser level out.

It's reading 29 inches low, but we're expecting a storm to get here tomorrow and last for three days. If I get any rain, I'll compare what's in my rain guage to the yard stick.

Across the lake, you can see my truck. I'm adding concrete pieces to my inflow from my culvert. Then I put some readi mix in some of the gaps to make sure the water flows nicely.

Eddie

the first time is the best, moreover, in my neck of the woods (and i'm sure TX too) after a long hot summer and devastating losses, it has become an annual event to cherish the first passing of water over the spillway and a return to full pool

return to full pool

eddie, may you and family enjoy many decades to come of this blessed event

Dave,
I can say for a fact it is the same in my neighborhood. I am on the downward side and probably won't be full again until June or July. I still wonder why I take it all so personally. I am even starting to think about MY snails and My crabs.

Dave,

I was really looking forward to my first time like Meadowlark said, but now I can see the thrill of this becoming a yearly event. You also put the fear in me the way you worded your statement. "Devastating Losses" sure does increase the pucker factor of what I can expect.

On a side note, do you know anybody in Pine Grove or Pioneer? My parents live in Pine Grove and are members of the Elks Lodge and a very good friend lives in Pioneer.

Eddie

well hopefully yer in a situation with more summer water than i am. perhaps a well? a small creek or spring? i could use anything to help especially from august through october. maybe TX summer rains will return for you guys next year. unfortunately i will never be able to count on summer rain unless something like global warming changes our patterns.

the closest i actually know people to that area is somerset....couple friends (including our own jeffhasapond). pine grove and pioneer are beautiful, have driven through several times. its about a 45 minute drive from my place. if you ever come to visit them you more than have an open invite to visit here, just let me know.

Pioneer is just up the mountain from me, been there a few times.

Never been to Pine Grove.

Thanks for the invite. I was there in the spring, but it might be a year or two until I go back again. When I do, I'll send you a pm, I'd love to see your pond.

Eddie

You'll have to stop by and see my place as well. There are ponds-a-plenty in El Dorado County.

Our only request will be that you fill your luggage with Redears. Dave and I are struggling to find a decent source in California.

My rain guage was right at one inch this morning, so Steph and I decided to go down to the lake to see how much the water rose in it.

The math couldn't be any easier!!!

The yard stick is now readng 26 inches low. It was at 29 inches yesterday, so one inche of rain gave me three inches of water.

We're expecting quite a bit of rain over the next two days, and with the ground already saturated, the ratio will change quite a bit.

Thanks,
Eddie

That seems like very good information to track. I like your approach. Keep us posted on the results of the new rainfall. I'm curious about how the ground saturation will effect the results.

More rain yesterday after my last post, plus last night. There is anotehr 4 5/8's inches of water in my rain guage. The water level rose from 26 inches low to 8 1/4 inches low right now.





Thanks,
Eddie

I have three main ways for water to enter my lake.

The first culvert is 15 inches, and as of right now, is handling the bulk of the water. My thinking this is because I've cleared most of the land above it and this is causing more water to runoff.





My next culvert is 18 inches and it's not getting as much water through it. It has twice the number of acres for watershed, but it's just not happening. I expect this to change quite a bit when I finish clearing my land and shaping the dirt.



The third entry for water is through an open trench that runs along the border of my land. It will pull some watershed off my land, but it will pull dozens and dozens of acres off my neighbors land. Or at least, that's the plan.



You can also see my shoreline road in the above picture. This is what stops the water from runnign directly into the lake. When the runoff hits the road, it then follows along the road to one of the culverts.

Thanks,
Eddie

Unbelieveable progress! Congrats, Eddie...it really is something to see. Did you ever do a final analysis to pinpoint the total amount of drainage you receive?

Time to stick another yardstick in shallower water!

truly a great thought- and entirely zen like- referencing Meadowlarks quote above- the sight of the first water cresting the spillway for the first time - like being 12 or 13
and discovering womanhood for the first time. I awoke Saturday morning and at daylight I could see my first pond about to top the dam --- but then the newly installed spillway kicked in and water cascaded over it into a newly renovated channel about 8 feet deep about 200 feet long- extending to a second spillway entering a newly created 3/4 acre pond and I got to see that spillway in action - just as envisioned and I continued watching (in the pouring rain) in amazement as the new pond filled to capacity and the auxilliary and emergency spillways kicked into action and handled 5 inches of water in about 3 hours---it was truly an amazing sight!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SO I witnessed four virgin spillways handle an enormous volume of water- and I pray we do not get five inches or even three any time soon.

I began my pond journey in the spring of 05, starting construction of a chain of ponds. An existing pond in close proximity of my backyard, about an acre in size, elyptical in shape 14 feet deep when full- I renovated its spillway and created a channel leading to the new pond.

All of the done (I might add) with a tractor that Mr Meadowlark "doubted would even dig the core trench".

So the new pond was completed in fall of 05 and remained dry until 6am 01-13-07 and was full and overflowing in three hours- WHAT A THRILL!!!

what do I stock it with??

Looking fantastic Eddie! Might have to borrow your yardstick idea, my little pond is less than 2' away from being full now too.

Seashores, I'm so happy for you and everyone making great progress. I'm certain it is a great feeling.

On the other hand, the system which just hit Texas and Arkansas and Kentucky missed me. I had been watching that system, almost hourly for a week prior to it developing. I've never been one to wish away time, but I was wishing away time expecting heavy rains. They missed us. I can not describe it, but for someone who's dam has been completed for almost 2 years, I can only explain it as the agony of defeat. I know it's not a good comparison, but it's like losing a big game, or something.

Oh well. Good things come to those that wait. Congrats to all who got big rains recently.

Well the system seems to be about over. In two and a hald days, I receieved 6 7/8's inches of rain in my guage. I put that yard stick in just in time, as you can see, I'm now about 4 1/2 inches from being full.



There is now two feet more of water in the lake than I had just three days ago!!!



And I still have plenty of freeboard above the water. This was a big concern. I used the lazer, took lots of measurments, but to be honest, I've always doubted that I did it right. This is the biggest thing I've ever built, so the scale of it was a little overwhelming. Including determinining where the water height will be on the dam.



Thanks,
Eddie

Eddie, in two days you received almost 7 inches of rain. Is that typical for you area? How often does this type of rainfall occur? A few times a year? A few times a decade? Or is that an exceptional amount?

Congrats. Lake looks great. Can't wait to see it when the color changes to green.

I'm thoroughly impressed.

Looking good Eddie! You guys are going to have a fantastic site. We passed through your area last week on the way to a jobsite, I saw the entrance. The next time I know I'll be in your area I'll give ya a pm, would like to see your place in person.
We had almost seven inches here at Sundowner! Our sixty acre lake has come from almost two foot low, to running through the spillway as of 4:30 this afternoon.

It looks awesome Eddie, how much surface area did it end up being, it looks huge in the photo's. Congrats on a job well done.

Robinson,

I'm south of Eddie in an area that tends to get somewhat higher annual rainfall than Eddie's. A 7 inch rain is certainly not unusual around here. In a normal year, whatever that is, we could expect two or three such happenings. This winter, for example, we received an 11.5 inch rain, a 6 inch rain and the recent 5 inches. A few years back, we received over 30 inches spread over a 4 day period...that would be considered unusual, but not a 7 inch rain. East Texas, especially along the H59 corridor flowing northeast from the Gulf, has to be one of the best areas for ponds anywhere, from a rainfall standpoint(except for the last two summers).

Robinson,

Like ML said, we get quite a bit of rain here in East Texas. I'm quite a bit North of him and don't get as much, nor as heavy as he does. An average year for rain here is just under 4 feet. The last two years we've been under three feet.

Rains of 2 to 3 inches in a day are not uncommon at all, but storms like that usually blow through pretty fast. This one stayed for awhile and droped allot of water. It didn't set any records, but it's more than we normally get. When building roads and drainage, we have to expect and plan for these types of storms.

Even then, the city and county roads are washed out all over the place. The news had several roads that no longer exist, or have 6 foot holes in them.

When Hurricane Rita came through, we were predicted to get 22 inches of rain from it. But I'm 200 miles from the coast and Rita didn't have much left of her when she got here. I think we ended up with just 2 inches of rain when it happened.

I've never experienced anything like what ML has. That would really cause some serious problems and damage!!!!!!!!

Bruce,

Thank you.

Rich,

I'd enjoy showing you around. Maybe you'll give me some pointers or ideas that I hadn't considered. I know that when Meadowlard was here, he gave me all sorts of ideas!!!!

Rockytopper,

I haven't done any final measurements with the water in it, but did do them when I finished the dam based on the locasion of my flags on the dam. It looks like I got it right as the water level is right around 4 to 5 inches from the flags, which is what I'm guessing the water is down at the spillway.

My measurements then put me at 4.3 acres. I had originally thought I'd have a five acre lake, but got carried away on the size of the dam. Now that it's done, and I've made it through that last storm without any damage or erosion, I'm glad the dam is as thick as it is!!!!

Meadowlark,

When you had 30 inches in four days, was that when Lufkin and all those cities flooded so bad? I just couldn't imagine what that must have been like.

Now that I'm almost full, I'm dying to go see our buddy Bob and start stocking. Two more months and the weather should change!!!!

Thanks,
Eddie

Eddie,

During that particular rain event I was in Houston and Houston actually got more...about 36 inches. Polk County was declared a disaster area because a lot of the roads washed out, but other than that, it didn't cause much damage. No damage at the ranch at all.

But if you really want to talk rain...at our former house in Clear Lake one memorable rain event dropped 48 inches in 24 hours at the Alvin weather station just down the road from us. Needless to say, that caused extensive damage. That's a lot of rain....even for Texas!

Thanks ML and Eddie. That does sound ideal, especially in Houston. That Gulf seems to really pump in the rain. We get it after it has weakened in TN, sometimes it's still strong though.

Didn't mean to hijack the thread.

Thanks again.

Eddie looks like you have done a great job. I would have never known this was the biggest thing you have built if you had not said so. I live in KY and we missed alot of the rain, I think we only got about 2 inches over 3 or four days. I didn't need the extra water, I am afraid my 8 inch pipe is gonna be to small if we get gully washer when it's at full pool. I am thinking of addding some dirt to raise the top a little. How much freeboard (in feet) will you have once you reach full pool?

Donnie

Eddie, it's not too late for seeding rye grass on all the bare ground to reduce erosion material into the pond. You'll also have a hard time getting your permanent grass started this spring after all the topsoil has run off into the water only leaving hard clay. It made a big differance on my pond site.

Meadowlark,

Four feet of rain in one day is just beyond my comprehension. If that happened here, the damage would be catastrophic!!!

Robinson,

I'm no expert on this, but we get our weather from the Pacific across Mexico in winter, then when it's warm out, the storms come from the Gulf. The Pacific storms are more of the big fronts that come across the country and dump water or snow on everyone. The Gulf storms usually come out of nowhere in the afternoon or at night and dump lots of water vere quickly, then they are gone. Those storms are also the most incorectly predicted by the weatherpeople.

Donnie,

I've built a few goldfish ornamental ponds for clients and smaller dirt ponds up to an acre, but nothing like this. I started it as a project to work on when I had the time weather allowed. As I progressed, I modified my plan and scale. I was hoping to get six feet of depth at the deep end and was unsure if I could get 4 feet through the rest of it. The drought really helped me out and for two years, I had perfect conditions for digging. I just kept digging until I had 12 feet of depth at the deepest end with 10 feet in over an acre and 8 feet for the most part over the rest of the lake.

This is something I could never afford to have done, but with my own equipment, and lots of time, I was able to come up with what you see.

As for freeboard, there is 3 feet of dirt above the water line when it's full. I might add another few inches just to smooth it out and give myself a rounder crown. I'm also makeing the dam thicker in one area to create a large picnic area that will be at the same height as the dam. I want this big flat area to be like a nice lawn with a view of the pond, the creek and in the trees. An added benifit of this is that I have massive amounts of dirt that I need to put somewhere, and this works out perfectly for me.

At water line, my dam is close to two dozer blades wide, or 20 feet. At the top of the dam, it's still over ten feet wide.

Family,

Your right, I've been thinking about putting some rye out. The weather is so crazy right now that the schools are closing because of snow and sleet. I'm not sure what temps rye grass needs to grow, but I'm kinda sure the ground shouldn't be frozen. Our high temps the last three days has been in the low 30's.

Thank you,
Eddie

Even if you sow it when it's frozen, it will likely sprout after it warms up a little.

------------

That's a lot of time you spent making lemonade, Eddie, and it shows. Kudos to your persistence and optimization of the situation.

Eddie,

Its looking good.

I went back last night and read through your post again from the begining. It is quite a story you have. From the first picture of you on the dozer to the picture of your pond almost full - is quite a jump! Great story.

Gator

How long did it take to read from start to finish.

Eddie, first of all I love reading your progress. Every time I come to the site I look for an update, great job! I do have a question. When and what are you stocking in your pond? you may have already answered this but I was curious since you have filled your pond up so quickly I know the sooner you get fish in there the better chance you have to keep undesirable fish out. just wondering AJS

Eddie,

Your project is amazing, inspiring, and humbling all at the same time. Congrats on every aspect.

Joe

AJS,

My stocking plans are pretty basic. I'm not really into fishing, but my wife and kids are.

My plan is to wait for the weather to warm up enough to for the fathead minnows to be able to spawn. From talking to my local fish supplier, Tyler Fish Farms, that should be the beginning of March.

I'm going to start with fathead minnows and coppernose bluegill. Then about two months later, I'll put in the channel catfish. Sometime in June or July, I'll put in my bass.

I'm leaning towards the cross between the florida and northern bass.

Whant I'm unsure about is if there is any advantage to putting in talipia this year, or waiting until next year whent the bass are already established and can take advantage of them.

Joe,

Thank you.

Eddie

It's been three weeks since the big storm that brought me withing 4 1/2 inches of being full. Today I'm 7 1/2 inches down. It's rained twice, but not enough to have any real runnoff. Just slow soakers that might be close to an inch total.

Adding that inch to the equation, I've lost 4 inches of water in three weeks. Is this allot? I'm always fearful that I might have a leak, so that's my first concern.

Anybody know how much evaporation would be normal in cold weather? Average temps are in the 30-40's with a few days like today in the 60's. Winds are light, but have been fairly constant at less then 10 mph.

Over at tractorbynet, it's been suggested that the lake bottom will compress from the weight of the water and until it settles itself out, I should expect the water levels to drop. It's normal for new ponds. Anybody heard this before?

On a more exiting note, the pond is attracting wildlife. The birds are just amazing and the wild hogs use the dam as a freeway. Tracks are all over the place!!!

But after owning the land for over 4 years and living here for 2 1/2 years, I've never seen a decent buck. In fact, it's rare to even see a deer here.

This picture was taken from a tree along the edge of my dam facing away for the lake. The deer have just crossed the creek and are headed to the lake!!

Eddie

That is an awesome sight, Eddie. As for your water level. Most people would yearn for a 4 inch drop in 3 wks. That is next to nothing. It should even get better. I would say things are going well. Congrats.

Eddie,
Do ya remember this thread ?

Eddie,

In cool weather, low humidity, and high winds, I think you could get up to .1" per day of evaporation. It's possible that you could have lost 1.5" or slightly more to evaporation over 3 weeks.

Add that to a little compaction and soakage, and it doesn't sound alarming.

If you didn't run into a lot of sand and gravel during construction, I wouldn't worry.

A reason for the "lag" in sealing is that it takes a while for the water to soak into the soil. As normal soil becomes wet, it becomes heavier and more plastic. The heavier and more plastic it becomes, the more it settles and compacts. The more it compacts, the more waterproof it becomes. In effect, there's an ever-decreasing loss to compaction and soakage. You should know something in a month or so.

Brettski,

Thanks for the link. I do remember it, but enjoyed reading it again. I don't think I have a leak, but the water level is dropping, so I wanted to share with everyone and ask for opinions.

When the water level was lower, it didn't change at all, now it's slowly dropping, so something has changed. I think it's normal and not a problem right now, but I'm not very knowledgable on these things.


burgermeister and bobad,

Thanks.

Eddie

Dirt is like a sponge. When it is dry, it absorbs water. Due to that and the permeability that is discussed in the link to the former thread, you will always be losing some small amount of water. The rate of absorption on a new pond has to be more than a mature one.

I can see no reason to stock tilapia this year. Without a LMB base to eat them, they are short term prey without a predator.

Eddie,

Give it a few months to stabilize...but keep an eye out for any wet areas behind the dam.

A comment on your stocking plan...the F1 LMB is a great choice for growing large catchable predators. Your supplier has some great genetics in both the LMB and CNBG. As far as stocking Tilapia are concerned this first year, my opinion is that it depends on the size of the stocker LMB and also on the water quality...i.e. if the LMB are stocked at 4 to 6 inches, they will feast on small Tilapia offspring all through the growing season and you will get algae control as a bonus. If you aren't concerned about algae and/or stock LMB smaller than 4 inches, then Tilapia won't do much for you. Otherwise, this first year, I'd stock them, in small numbers, for the algae control and for the forage they will provide your LMB.

Eddie nice deer congrats, I agree with ML and company don't be too worried yet about the pond leaking. My new pond droped 6 to 12 inches in the first 3 or 4 weeks. after the intial first catch. Sense that time it has continued to catch water and it has now stablished. No loss noted in the last 8 weeks.

Looks like 3 deer in that picture. Your gonna have to go shed hunting in a few weeks, they should be about ready to drop. Give those guys a couple years and they should be Boone and Crocket.

My pond is a year old and it came up and droped a bunch of times before it setteled this winter. I would just give it time.

Donnie

A leaky pond must be a problem in Texas, but the county in Iowa I live in, all ponds leak. I guess certain places are blessed with certain soils, and the rest make do.

Thank you for the replies and advice. It's very comforting to hear those of you with first hand experience confirm what I've read, but haven't seen myself until now. One guy told me that it would drive me crazy watching the water level change for the first few months. He was right. hahaha

I'm planning my initial stocking for next month when it starts to warm up a little. I'll have the water tested first, as it's free and local, then go from there. My plan is just Fathead Minnnows, Copper Nose Bluegill and Channel Catfish. Then wait.

The bass are the big prise, but I'm not in any sort of rush to get them in there. I counted four different spawns of minnows last year in my small pond, and think that would be perfect for the lake before I try any preditors.

I'll probably go cheap and put in the smallers bass I can get. Is there any advantage to buying bigger ones if I'm not in a rush for them to grow? I also buy plants in the smallest size and let them grow, so it's jus the way I am. hahaha

Again, thank you.
Eddie

Eddie, smaller size bass seem to have greater mortality but you can stock more of them. If you buy 2 to 4 inch, expect most to be closer to 2 than 4. Anything smaller than that, they'll eat each other.

Update on my water level. It's been a week since I last checked it and the yardsick said I was at 7 1/2 inches low. Today is says I'm 8 1/2 inches down for a loss of one inch of water in one week.

That doesn't sound too bad to me. No measurable rain, but temps were in the 60's early in the week and now they are in the 40's. We might be getting a thunderstorm tomorrow, so I'm hoping for runoff, but no biggy. I'm feeling pretty good about it not leaking and holding water.

Last night after Steph got home and it was still light out, we went for a walk down to the lake. There were ducks flying all around and several small flocks landed. We were very exited and tried to sneake up for pictures. The close we got, the more we saw. There were at least 30 wood ducks in the pond with several on the shoreline running around. There were two to three flocks flying over head. Then the ones in the water would take off in groups of five and six, but others would land of similar size.

We have no idea how many ducks were out there, but we never expected anything like that!!! Before, we'd kick up a pair or two pairs from the creek and sort of expected to see similar numbers in the lake.

This is so cool!!!!

Eddie

What an amazing sight to behold, I'll bet! It will be interesting to see if they hang around or if they are migrating. I hope we have even half your luck. In fact, I think half might be more than enough. Is it possible to have too much duckage in a no-hunt pond? My biggest fear is getting half your wood duck-luck and it sends up the "c'mon down" signal to the CG.
Have you made any decisions on nesting boxes?

Hi Brettski,

Honestly, after seeing all those wood ducks, I've changed my mind on boxes. I'm not going to make any. Whatever is going on here, it's working and I'm not gonna get involved. hahaha

There are all sorts of hardwoods all around the lake and along the creek for miles and miles. Allot of them have holes in them that must be where they are nesting.

There's no telling how many flew by. 30 is just how many she counted in the lake while trying to get some pictures.

Their call is very eiry and spooky sounding, and while trying to get some pictures, we were surrounded by them calling. I'm a duck hunter, just not on my land, and the best part was watching them lock up and come in for a landing. Just one of those magical things I really enjoy.

According the the birder websites, we're on the boarder of migratory and permanent wood ducks. We've never seen them during summer, but allot of the ducs that fly by are too fast, or up too far to identify. Could be woodies here year round.

Eddie

that is way cool eddie...in 11 years i've only seen one male and he only stayed for a couple days. my dad keeps tellin me to put up a box or two, and thanks to brettski, i now have the BEST resource possible to do so.

Eddie, are there any springs feeding your pond or are you relying on runoff now? I recall you had some spring flow - could be they are sealed off?

My new pond just north of you in Mineola is staying at a constant level, however I do have a very small above water line spring running right now. I am not seeing the level go up - but staying constant. My guess is the leaks or evaporation are being offset by incoming spring water.

The spring that is along the shoreline is dry. I'm not sure what happened, but it held water before I begun digging, and never dried up until last summer. Then it slowly lowered until it was dry. I probably ruined it by putting a road just above it and compacted the soil around it. I really don't know for sure. It was in a perfect location just a foot or so above the full water line.

There was ice over about half of it, and my small pond this morning. Tracks all over the place from hogs, deer and coyotes.

Eddie

Eddie, I had a similar situation with the springs - you may consider using a back hoe downstream from your roadway - it very well may open up the spring again when you remove the pressure of the soil. It worked for me.

Not much to update on the water level. When it rains, it's too light to cause any runoff. The ground just soaks it up.

I'm still droping an inch a week, it's getting warming and it looks like it might be dropping faster now. I'll know for sure this weekend, but I figures it's normal evaporation.

An exiting note is that the grass is starting to break through. I have to get down real close to the ground to see it, bit it's there, so I'm happy.

Saturday I was at Walmart with my wife and we spoted a minnow trap in the fishing area. It was cheap and I thought it would be fun to catch them in my small pond and let them go in the big one.

Here's my 6 year old son with the trap.



We've been getting from 20 to 40 fish a day with it.



And it's his job to catch them in the bucket, look to see if any are pregnant, and then let them go. He loves his job!!!



Eddie

nice pics eddie. i try to tell that to myself everyday...."i love my job"....keeps me goin you know.

do you know what kind of minnows they are? just curious. they look fat and happy.

do you bait the trap, or do they just go in it?

try a pan test or bucket test to see if rate of pond loss is similar to container. if its a lot more you may either have some seepage somewhere or be still getting the "soil wetting effect".

Dave,

They are fathead minnows that I put in my small pond last April. We fed them every evening, along with the channel cats, a floating catfish food. We had at least four spawn from them based on there being four different sizes swimming around the floating food.

I put a small handfull of the same catfish food in the minnow trap.

Eddie

Today it was Alissa's turn. She's 9 and a little more "skittish"(her word) when it comes to this stuff. After a little time getting used to it, she got over her fear of them and was reaching in the bucket for handfuls of minnows!!







Eddie

Sometimes if the prize is big enough, they will work together, and even get along!!! hahaha

Eddie

Eddie, your fish are gonna have a feast when you stock them. Your kids are doing just what they will probably doing when you're trying to teach 'em to fish...play with the bait.

Here's a couple pictures that my wife took of us yesterday. The boat is 10 feet long and cost $200 at a garage sale. It's about the best deal on a boat ever!!!!!

The water level is 16 inches down right now. It's still droping an inch a week, but we've been getting these little storms once or twice a week that drop a tenth to half an inch of rain. There's hardly any runoff from those showers, so it's just enough to slow down the evaporation.

A long time ago I asked about water lilies and what to choose. I had several replies, and I searched for others who also asked about them. From those suggested, I bought 8 Chromatella from www.waterplants.com for $11.50 each, plus shipping for a total of $106.

They are the entire plant wraped in newspaper with about a dozen full leaves on each, and more sprouting out. They look very healthy and I'm hopeful that they will grow. I have four underwater islands that are about 4 feet from the surface for just this reason. For me, the water lilies are more important then the fish. I just love them!!! The sides of the islands drop straight off to 8 feet or more of water. I'm hopeful that is deep enough to contain the lilies, and why I chose Chromatella. I also like the yellow flowers!!!! LOL

Eddie

Eddie, have you noticed any difference in the visibility - it looks like its clearing? Hard to tell on the last pictures duw to the reflection.

gator

Gator,

Yes, it's clearing up a fair amount. The water is a totally diferent color now and I can see down into the water along the shoreline. There are eggs along the shore that I'm sure are from frogs. A month ago, it was all thick coco colored.

Eddie

We finaly got a decent picture of some wood ducks. They are all over the lake and creek, but they are also extremly wary. We see them as they take off and fly away, but until now, we've never been able to get a picture of one.

We walked right up to a pair that were swiming along the shorline. Steph got a few quick pictures before they spotted us and took off.




Then while we were smiling and talking about how cool that was, we heard another pair calling. They have the wierdest call of any bird, and it's kind of spooky. That pair kept on flying, but another pair landed in the middle of the lake. They swam up to this log and sat there for a few pictures.



We were there to take some pictures of a Little Blue Heron that I'd seen during the week, but couldn't get any good pictures of it. She has the good Cannon S2 camera with a 12x optical zoom. Great camera!!! And she loves to take pics of the birds with it, so this is allot of fun for us.

We didn't find the Little Blue Heron, but we did see this bird. It was pretty far away, so they are fuzzy, but we can't figure out what it is. The colors and shape look like it could be a Plover, Sanderling or Sandpiper. We just can't find any pictures of anything that match the pictures she took. It might be the way the lighting is reflecting on it, or it could be imature. We just don't know.



http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f40/okosongoro/UnknownShorebird2.jpg

Eddie

Great pics, Eddie...thanks.
Yeah, wood ducks are not human friendly. I fear that even if we get activity in the nesting boxes, their human-skittish behavior will kick in whenever we visit the pondsite.

The small bird is a Kill-deer.

My wife took some better pictures of that mystery bird with her better camera. They are not great pics, but this one shows the markings that were missing from my pictures of it. Once we saw the spots on it's chest, it was allot easier to identify. They yellow/orange beak was what was really making it dificult for us identify.

Thanks,
Eddie

I found momma wood duck dead at the edge of our pond yesterday. No sign of any injury. I checked the nesting box and sure enough there were 11 eggs, but they were cold. There were a bunch of long sticks in the box, I suspect the work of a starling. The only thing I can figure is a long stick got wedged in such a way that it blocked the entrance and she exhausted herself trying to get in. My son said he heard alot of splashing in the water shortly after sunset. We're sick about it!

It's been a wet week here and things are really impoving at my lake. The water is up and I'm 6 1/2 inche from being full!!



My bermuda grass is finally starting to sprout and look like something. I've been worried that I put the seed out too late last fall and the winter freeze killed it off. This is almost as exiting as the water level rising.



Of course, I need to do some mowing.



Eddie

Here's a few pictures of the lake that I took yesterday.









Eddie

Eddie, as soon as that bermuda gets established, stops the mud from the construction from settling in, you're going to have a beautiful clear lake...with big fish. Your story is fun to watch !

Just fyi...mine looked the same way, I jumpstarted the process by adding alum...100 lbs to start, then stacked 6 50lb. bags in near the watershed to simply feed as the rain fell. It worked great, but my PH was high to begin with.

Looking forward to seeing the progress.

...glad ya checked in, Eddie. Yep, you're gonna kick my butt all the way to the spillway. I'm slippin' backwards a little; stuck at 30" short of the spillway.
Didn't you have some killer rains late Winter that took you all the way up to the spillway?

Eastland,

A few weeks ago, I could see about a foot into the water. Now it's all muddy again, but the runoff has been pretty extreme. We had another inch of rain yesterday and we're expecting at least that much today, with more expected this week.

Brettski,

In January, we had 8 inches of rain in five days if I remember corectly and I was 8 1/2 inches from being full. Since then, the water level droped abotu an inch a week except for the rains we had that from time to time. Mostly it was a slow drop that had me down about a foot from my highest point.

Right now I'm at an all time high, so that's exiting. I keep thinking of Meadowlarks words about the special feeling I'll have the first time the water flows over the spillway. I'm really looking forward to that day!!!!

Of couse, I'm a little diferent then most, and the grass around the water has me more more exited then the water level. For me, the beauty of the lake is much more important then the fishablity of it. It's the same to make it fishable with lots of structure as not, so I went overboard on that part of it, but in the end, it's all about how it looks for me.

My favorite thing to do is take a walk around it. I love to see the trees and how everyting ties together and how amazing it all looks.

I have a six foot bush hog that I've used to mow it and my place, but Saturday I bought a used 7 foot finish mower that I'm looking forward to mowing around the shoreline and dam. Once I get the grass in, it will be allot easier to maintain with the finish mower.

Thanks,
Eddie

Lake Marabou has been full for a few weeks, but it hasn't been overflowing. Friday night we had a storm come through that dropped 2 1/2 inches of rain!!!

Today was the first time I've seen water overflowing the spillway. It's only half an inch deep, but it's been flowing for a day and a half and there's no telling how much water it's had flow through it.

One of my concerns was erosion, and if I'd have enough grass growing to hold the soil together when this happened. It looks like I got lucky, and it's all working better then I'd hoped.

Eddie

Eddie,

That probably due to good planning and precise leveling of the spillway. If the water were spilling over in 1 narrow choke point, it would wash it out, grass and all!

I was in the area of Tyler Fish Farms today, so I decided it was time to buy some fish. I told the owner that I've been catching fish from my small pond and letting them go in the lake for about four months now with good results. My estimates are around 30 channel catfish in the one to two pound range, 200 coppernose bluegill and close to a thousand fathead minnows. I also explained to him that I wanted to create a food base for bass, but didn't want to put bass in until next year.

He said that I have enough catfish already and all they are going to do it eat the forage fish, so I didn't need any more of them. He also said they will try to spawn next year, but it might take another year for that to actually happen.

He sugeested that I add another 2,000 1-3 inch copper nose bluegill, to the pond, and 3,000 fathead minnows. The bluegill cost $100 per thousand and the minnows are $30 per thousand.

He figured out how many there are per weight, then added some to give me quite a few extras. I have no idea how many I actually got, but I'm sure I did pretty well.

We'll keep adding fish from the small pond to the lake just because it's fun, but as of now, I really don't need any more.

Eddie

Eddie,

You are in great hands with Bob. It will be interesting to hear your thoughts in about three years on the catfish in the big lake...it all depends on your objectives, but I've found that objectives can change with time...and with a huge LMB exploding on a top-water plug in two feet of water.

ML a very good point. Peoples' goals/objectives can change over time and often do. That is why it is so important to learn as much as possible about all aspects of ponds including biology and systems and the different fish one might use. Then as goals change it is easier to transition from one set to another. Planning ahead for this is a real plus down the road.

Eddie sounds like you are off to a good start. Good luck and keep us up to date on your progress.

I'm not sure I understand your comments on the catfish?

I started out with 200 of them in my small pond and we feed them every day. They are allot of fun to watch and real easy to catch. After we catch them, we bring them down to the lake and let them go.

Bob said the catfish might spawn at two years of age, but that three is more realistic. He said that by adding allot of catfish now will just mean they will eat more of the other fish.

With what I'm doing, I'll have enough mature fish in there when they begin to spawn to have a good supply of them down the road.

My goal is a pretty looking pond, fishing is secondary, but while I'm at it, I figure I might as well do what I can to make it a good fishing hole too. Around here, it seems most people like black crappie more then anything. At least, that's what I keep getting asked. I'm not going that route, so bass will be my main game fish with bluegill second and catfish third.

What I'm realy exited about is that there are now a few areas that have grass growing from the waters edge all the way over the dam!!!! There's still lots of exposed dirt, but the bermuda is thick and lush where it's well established and in the open areas, it's taking over rather quickly!!!!

My biggest problem has been keeping the tractor out of the lake. I drive as close as I think I can while mowing, but seem to end each day with it buried in mud. I did it again yesterday in a new spring that I didn't know I had.

Speaking of springs... When I started building this, there was one good spring that had water coming out of it year round. It's not allot of water, but anything is better then nothing. My shoreline was set to be just below this spring and to allow water to flow from it to the pond. With two years of drought, it just about dried up, but not quite. There was always a wet spot in the dirt, but the standing water disapeared awhile ago.

It's flowing right now, but not like a stream or anything like that. Just water oozing out of the ground and down to the shoreline. It's kind of like standing water after a rain, but on the side of my bank, if that makes any sense.

Thanks,
Eddie

Eddie,

To clarify...I know several guys around here who started out stocking both catfish and LMB and as time went on, came to the conclusion that they needed to remove all the catfish in order to optimize on the LMB. Not wanting to offend the catfish fans, there's probably also examples of guys wishing they could remove LMB in favor of catfish. My point was that it is sometimes good to go slow, at first, in stocking until you get a good feel for what works best for you in your situation.

I have springs just like you described. How's your trees doing that we looked at along the shoreline?

Meadowlark,

I understand what you're saying. I'm pretty good with what ever happens as I honestly don't think there is a bad side to this. I have a pond that has fish in it. Everything else is just gravy!!!!!!!!

All the trees are doing great. I was a little worried over the winter when they were all dormant, but as spring arrived, they all came to life and are looking healthy. Of course, I don't know my trees very well, so it could be that I'm just clueless.

I did have one of my old oaks half die on me. I was careful of the roots around it and didn't cut any of them, but I did build up the dirt some to create a crown on the road that passes it.

That oak forks into two trunks. One side is fine, but the other side never sprouted any leaves. It's also droping branches on my road. Sometimes big branches that are well over a foot thick.

I'm really sad about that tree as it was an old one and pretty impressive. Obviously I put too much dirt on it's roots, too soon.

In a month or so, I'll post some pics of the dam with the grass all nicely mowed. I'll also post a few pics that show the trees so you can see how nice they look.

Thanks,
Eddie

Great attitude, Eddie, great!! It's all fun and the best part of it is the journey and enjoying it every day.


p.s. keep an eye on those trees for me cause I love 'em too. I had some die two years after building one pond but it sounds like yours have made it.

It's been over a year since I've updated everyone on how Lake Marabou is doing. The best part is that the grass is all in and it looks amazing. Nature has taken over and it's all up to her now as to what happens. We've seen deer, hogs and foxes on it, plus all sorts of birds, snakes and turtles. The best part of it is going down there and seeing what's out and about!!!

The bass are a mystery since I'm taking Meadowlarks advice and not fishing for them for this year or next year. Then in 2010, we'll see what we have. I now think that I made a mistake by adding the channel catfish because they compete with the bass. I'm not sure how bad this will be, especially since some people prefer catfish to bass. It's done, so we'll just enjoy the catfish and hope for the best with the bass. We're trying to catch as many catfish as we can, but they've spawned and I we're not sure of how many the bass eat or how many survived.

I have an old timer who's in his 80's come over a few times to fish for the catfish. He cought 18 of them one morning in the 3 to 5 pound range. Sorry,no pics, it's just what he told me since I wasn't here at the time. He said they fought really good and twice he had to go swimming for his second fishing pole. He'd be pulling one in and the other would get a bite, then pull the pole into the water. He gave up on two poles after his second trip into the pond to retrieve it!!!

I did have a beaver issue that really annoyed us. We started seeing small trees that were eaten off that told us that they had found the pond. There is a creek next to the pond with trails coming and going from it, so it was just a matter of time until they found it. Then they took the bark off one of my bigger trees, and that was just too much. We started going down there at last light more often looking for them. I shot one that must have weighed around 50 to 60 pounds. We've kept an eye open for more, but there is no more sign of them. I think it's just a matter of time until the next one shows up.

My brother brought his boat over and wanted to teach the kids how to drive it. They were very excited about this and we spent a fun afternoon playing around.

Here are some recent pictures.

Eddie

Stunning, Eddie. Absolutely Stunning. Thanks for the update.

Eddie, you are blessed with a great place and a good eye for photography.

A little slice of heaven.

BING

Gorgeous, my man. What a great accomplishment.
As a reminder, all who pick up on this thread, but don't take the time to go back to the beginning to savor every chapter of it's development, Eddie did this job single-handedly. He crafted this gem from nothing on a dozer with a re-built engine (which he also did himself). This thread truly deserves the time to review and read thru from post #1. It's an amazing journey.

The pond looks great Eddie! Nice job. I looked at the photos you posted today and when looking at the deer photo almost missed the fawn walking behind it. That fawn looks to be hours old.

Beautiful pics Eddie. Your levees look a lot like mine.

That's a honking big beaver. I was driving to town 1 morning and say what I thought was a hog that had been road killed. When I got up close to him, I saw it was a beaver about the size of yours.

Thanks for the update and the great pictures.

hiya eddie! good to see you chime in again, thanks for the update, yer place is maturing REALLY NICELY.

Great job !!!! Love the pics especially the dead rodent (beaver). They are a pest. Can you get rid of mine? How are the fish doing ?

Beautiful pics, Eddie!

I will have to go back and read this thread from beginning to end--well done!

Thank you everyone for the kind words. My wife does most of the photography, but I did take the pics of the fox and the hogs. Both look allot better in full size before I made them smaller to post on here. The picture of the hogs is one that I'm very proud of. It was pure luck, I saw the hogs, turned on the camera and snaped a quick picture as soon as I saw them in the viewfinder. There's just something about it that I really like.

The picture of the doe and fawn was in the middle of the day. We were taking a walk around the pond and my wife saw a flower that she was taking pictures of. I was messing with the canoe on the dam and not really paying attention to anything when the doe walked out of the woods. I froze and tried to get Steph's attention. She was oblivious and thought I was signialing for her to come over to where I was at. The doe took off to the oposite side of the dam, then stoped. She took pics of her, but then the little fawn came out after her. We never expected that!!!! It's so small that we agree that it must have just been a few days old. I saw it a few other times and it was much bigger. One time it ran past me while I was on the backhoe working on my food plot.

When I posted the pictures, I went back and re-read the entire thread. It's allot of fun to have a record of what happened and in what order it happend. Some things are different then what I remember them. I thought I put in the culverts at the very end, not while still moving dirt with the dump truck. The transformation still overwhelms me. When we see it now, it's like it's been there forever. There is no hint of what was there before.

Eddie

That is what we ALL like about seeing these types of pond construction threads. Following a journey such as yours and Brettski's, Theo's, and GW's (and anyone else that documented a pond being built and whose name I negligently left out) gives us all a sense of the transformation that is being undertaken. And in addition for those of us that puchased a property that already had a pond on it we get an idea of the amount of work that is involved in creating a pond.

You have a dream.
You make the dream come true.
You live the dream.

I salute you.

I guess this is a bump. Just a wonderful piece of work Eddie. Great resource for all of us building our ponds.

Omaha,

Thank you. It's always nice to hear.

Eddie

I'm new here and stumbled on this thread a couple hours ago. It was a long read, but well worth it. Just the inspiration I need to get started on my place. I've got 80 acres near Seadrift that is begging for a pond. And now I plan on trying to do the same documentation of the process as you. Thanks.

Seadrift,

I'm looking forward to reading of your progress when you start your pond. I found that the input I received from everyone really helped me build the best pond that I could.

Good luck,
Eddie

Great job Eddie. I've read bits & pieces before, but just went back & read it it beginning to end...du

Had some family and friends over today for Fathers Day. The fishing wasn't very good in my small pond, so we went down to Lake Marabou to play around in the water and just have a good time. Then when it cooled down and the younger crowd was worn out, the fishing started.

My Father In Law caught the biggest catfish at 4 pounds, my wife caught the smallest catfish, which was about the size of her pinky finger, and her grandma caught the oddest fish. It looked like a blugill at fist, but it's shape and color is off. Then we noticed that it's mouth was allot bigger then normal. Are we nuts, or is this a different species?

Eddie

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That's a green sunfish.

That would be a GSF with the coloration typical of a GSF coming from a muddy pond. Kind of pale and washed out. Nice sized GSF at that...

JHAP will be in touch with you, Eddie.

Green Sunfish. Thank you. I've read a few threads on them and it looks like it's an unwanted fish. Is this something I need to be worried about? or is there anything that I can do about it?

I have bass and channel catfish in there, along with copper nose bluegill and fathead minnows.

Since I didn't put the green sunfish in there, I'm going to have to assume that if I tried to get rid of them, however they got there will just happen again.

Thanks,
Eddie

Do you have 2 ponds Eddie (small pond & Lake Marabou)?

Looks like Lake Marabou has some GSF. Embrace the dark side Eddie, you know you want to. Defy convention.

People get all freaked out about GSF and if you're looking for a trophy BG pond then yep the GSF will compete with the BG. GSF shouldn't hurt your LMB production, heck one of Commander Cody's presentations at the 2008 Pond Boss Convention was all about LMB and GSF, might want to contact him for an expert opinion.

I'll tell you this though. Get a 10-12 inch GSF that approaches a pound (or more) to strike and you'll have a fight on your hands. GSF are IMHO one of the best fighting of the sunfish pound per pound.

Eddie,

Others have correctly identified this trespasser as a green sunfish, and I see that the GSA has rushed in to inundate you with outlandish propaganda. It is fortunate indeed that I have observed this post, and can communicate the dire implications of this discovery in an accurate, unbiased manner.

Simply put, this is a disaster of unmitigated proportions. I am struggling to find words in my lexicon that can convey the magnitude of this catastrophy.

Remember that part in "Aliens" where the space marines have been whupped by the bad guys? They plan to go back up to their ship and "nuke the site from orbit"? This, I am sorry to tell you, would be the safest, most efficacious way in which to deal with this invasion. It is fortunate indeed that you moved to Texas from California, as I fear they frown on this method of control on the west coast.

If you do not deal with this infestation promptly and effectively, your whole community may suffer, and within a fairly short time your lake will look like Brettski's, surrounded by those mobile homes of his to which you have so effectively applied your vitriolic wit.

You must act now!

Eddie, its not the end of the world. In all likelihood, they got into your lake through stock contamination or via another connecting or nearby body of water. I wouldn't panic. I have seen many a fine bass and bluegill pond that has GSF in them. In my experience, the GSF tend to stay low in numbers. They just don't compete well with other fish. GSF are a fish that does well in small creeks where competition with other species is limited. Often in ponds and lakes, I see them hugging rocky areas. If you have a rocky area to your pond, flip a small bait near a rock crevice, often that is where the few GSF in your pond will be hanging out.

What the heck happened, all of the sudden my BS Meter is running at red line?

Oh, never mind, I see that Yolk posted to this thread.

See? I KNEW he wouldn't like the part about the nuclear weapons.

Funny stuff, Yolk.

Eddie, I concur with CJ - as long as you have a decent population of LMB, the bass will keep them in check, and once the CNBG get decent-sized the GSF will have a hard time competing and will be uncommon to catch.

BTW, hope I didn't sound too elitist in my offer to advise you on getting your bluegill to a pound. The formula is not that complicated: fertilize on a regular schedule to maintain a plankton bloom from March through October, don't keep a lot of bass so there will be plenty to keep the bluegill numbers in check, and once your bluegill start getting to 8" or better (which should be within a year and a half or so of initial stocking if you're fertilizing), don't keep more than 20 or so above 8" per acre per year. Stocking grass shrimp could speed their growth if the shrimp get established. And, lastly, the silver bullet of bluegill management, install two or three automatic feeders - Sweeney and Texas Hunter are great quality, probably the best, but if you can't spend that much Aquapro makes a great $89 model that Bruce and I both use - and feed a high-protein-content fish chow such as Aquamax 500, two or three times a day. If you install the feeders now, while your pond population is balanced, you just about couldn't help but get several CNBG in the pound range within three years or possibly sooner. Get yourself an ultralight rod with six-pound test, toss out a red wriggler or cricket on a light-wire hook with little or no weight and a very skinny float near one of the feeders, and you'll have yourself a bull battle.

Quite the story Eddie, thanks for telling it!