My pond is almost completed. It should be finished tomorrow. It's going to be less than half an acre when it's done.

The contractor called me this evening to let me know he hit gravel at the bottom of the pond while trying to scrape up the last bit of clay to line the sides with.

He was just about to call it quits for the day when his tractor bucket hit the gravel.
He dug about 4 feet down and kept pulling up gravel - roughly about a 60% ratio of gravel to good clay and sand.

We are already at the bottom of where I wanted to go with the pond - about 8 to 10 feet deep.
The slope on the pond is a little steeper than 3 to 1.

I could go bigger with the pond and save the gravel for my own use - like a road topping for my twelve hundred foot driveway.
I could use the gravel for other things.
I could try to sell it.

The pond is strictly an excavated hole with a berm on one side to stand on. Almost every single truck load of dirt that came out of the pond was a good mix of sand and clay until he hit the gravel at the bottom.

What would you do?

Thanks!
EastTexasWoods

ETW,

I like ponds...especially ponds that hold water. So, I would cover that gravel in two feet of good packed clay and wait for the fall rains to come.

Maybe you could sell it and make some money, maybe not. Maybe you could use it for something else...but if you want a good pond, cover it up with good packed clay and enjoy the pond and forget the gravel....that's what I would do, cause I like ponds more than gravel.

Meadowlark,
Your point is well taken. I most definitely want the pond to hold water.

On the other hand, I could follow my wife's suggestion and line it with concrete and end up with one BIG swimming pool!
Not that I could afford it if I wanted to!

I guess I'm wondering if anyone has actually dug and used their own gravel for anything.

Should I just avoid it like the plague?

If I do try and use it, I'll have to dig deeper and wider than originally planned which will involve more $$$. I'll also need to set enough clay aside to come back and cover the gravel.

Cover the gravel, quick. Pack clay on top, and get out of there.
If you need gravel for a road, buy it. Chances are, your gravel may not be the best kind for a road, anyway.
Stay focused on your mission, a pond.

The gravel is an aquifer. Don't try to dig through it. Cover it with good clay, hold your breath and pray.

East Tx,

Now for a contrary view. Not to disagree with the others but here are my thoughts. Without knowing much about your soils and geographic area, I would try to establish the extent of the gravel bed before covering it over. My line of thinking is this;

(1) Your post states that you are currently at a depth of 8-10 feet. Adding a cover of at least 2' of clay drops you back to 6-8'. In your area, will this be enough depth for a pond? Will YOU be satisfied with a pond that is only 6-8' deep?
(2) If the bed is not too extensive, digging it out rewards you with a stockpile of gravel, for use or sale, AND you get a pond with much more depth to help fend off those hot Texas summers.
(3) Talk to your contractor and get his opinion. Has he run into this situation before and if so, what were the results.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Russ

Russ,
Thanks for your comments. I appreciate it.

I understand Meadowlark, Bob and Dave's collective point. Gravel is a big drainage problem. And yes, I do want the pond to hold water.

You are thinking along the lines of what I was. Let's say the gravel "vein" turns out to be 4 or 5 foot deep. I could go wider on one side of the pond. Stack the best clay aside for re-packing the bottom. I should have enough to cover it with 2 feet. Have gravel for whatever it's worth (to me or others). Best of all, have a bigger pond!

I do want to factor in for a 2 foot water level drop on my pond for those Texas droughts. Kinda like the one we are in right now around my place. So I want to go as deep as I realistically can. It's this long dry summer that allowed me to get the heavy equipment in the pond area in the first place.

The catch is of course.... It's gonna cost me more than what we agreed on initially. I have a limited budget so... that's a big factor.

I'll talk it over with him today and weigh the options.

I think the key word I got from Bob and Dave's comments was Clay. I do have a good amount of it and it's quality stuff too. I'm pretty sure I'll have enough to cover the bottom, no matter what I end up doing.

Everyone's comments are MUCH appreciated!!
I'm at the brink of a big decision to make.

I'm completely new at pond ownership. I don't want to make any mistakes.

It's not only the depth of the gravel vein that you need to consider. The vein is most likely a strata. In other words, it could go for a long way in each direction. If you keep digging, you might wind up trying to pack clay on the sides of the seam. And, that seldom works.

If it were me, and it's not, I would either stop where you are and cover the gravel or find another spot and mine the gravel.

The cheapest route is to cover the entire seam and hope.

East TX,

You're welcome. No doubt you have a big decision ahead, especially the cost factor. My main concern would be to have you go through all the effort to establish a nice fishing hole only to have one hot, dry summer result in a total loss due to a pond without sufficient depth.

If you have other pond owners in your area, stop by for a visit and pick their brains. Ask about water loss for an average summer.

Russ

ETW,

Just one last word of caution from me...make your decision based on your pond objectives and very carefully evaluate anything your builder says. He may be motivated to continue to work and run up a much higher bill.Maybe not, but evaluate carefully.

You have plenty of depth for San Jac county. Good luck.

One last point...if you need more depth, go up in this situation, not down. Raise the dam a bit, and the spillway to get necessary two feet, if it's practical.

EastTexasWoods,

Don't panic yet! The gravel is most likely an ancient creek or river bed that meandered away or dried up. Is there a fair sized stream or river near by?

Sand is usually the real villain. Most aquifers follow sand or sand/gravel veins of substantial thickness. A thick sand vein will suck your pond dry, and the pond's water level will rise and fall with the water table. Gravel... especially mixed with clay, is usually not indicitive of an aquifer, and not a problem. You didn't mention water seeping into the pond, so that's a very good sign.

I'm guessing your pond is just a hole in the ground, because there aren't many terrain features in your parts. Your options are limited. Your pond must be dug deep enough to stay full and cool, so you will probably have to go for it. Good luck!

I'm posting an update with pictures this time.

I decided to leave the gravel right where it is and cover it with clay. The contractor ran the numbers past me and suggested that I pick a different place to mine for gravel.

I really ran out of money and time to do any more pond digging. I'm glad I got what I got and really glad it's all completed!!

I have to admit though, I was really curious what it would have looked like and what other material would have come out of that hole.

Here's a bunch of pictures so you can see what I was working with.

Thanks everyone for the replies and answers.

I'm gonna post some before and after pictures of my pond in a few days.

ETW

The gravel test hole was about 4 or 5 feet deep. Overnight the hole filled up with about 2 feet of water.


A side view showing the strata. Looks like I was getting into quite a bit of sand and clay right before he hit the gravel.


Some of the gravel. There were rocks ranging from fist sized to pea. Some small pieces of petrified wood too. It must have been a riverbank at one time.


Covering it up.


A few places where his blade smoothed the bottom out showed how the colors were marbled.


The gravel hole is covered now and he's spreading and packing the clay.


END.

ETW,

Great Pictures! Really interesting follow-up. Looking at that hole and how it filled with water, sure seems like you made the best decision. Let's all hope it holds water now! Thanks for the follow-up.

I hope Mr. Lusk gets to look at these pictures. That's pretty high quality stuff. Very informative. ETW, I hope you hang around for a while and keep regular updates. Thanks!

ETW,
Great testimony, better photos. In my most humble opinion, you did the right thing. As a matter of fact, if you are interested, this would make great fodder in the magazine. You are cordially invited to string a few words together along with those pics and let's tell the world. Yours is a classic issue that too many people miss. In the Nov-Dec issue of PB, Mike Otto writes about dirt. If you can put together 500-600 words about this real world deal, we can use it as a sidebar to Otto's story. But, the deadline is coming quickly. If interested, email me directly at pondboss@texoma.net.
Back to your situation, I think you made a brilliant decision to fill and pack. Ironically, most people look in a test hole, see water and are thrilled. Those who know how to play this game see water and chills run down their spine. Well done, sir.
Now...let the pond fill and see how she does. It ain't over until it fills and stays that way.

ETW,

While the gravel was not necessarily bad news, the seepage certainly is.

Best of luck,,,

I don't know how many acres you have, but that kind of gravel can work in your favor. If you're a 20-50 acre landowner, you made a smart decision. If you're upwards of 200+ acres, see if you can get someone out there that's interested...you could have a pond of a lifetime, plus a lot of $$$ in your pocket to stock it. If your gravel layer is thick, you could be looking at a multi-year deal that would revert your land to an awesome fishery upon completion.

Those Drag-Lines can create ponds deep enough into the aquifer, they never dry. The aquifer, rock, and temperature make ideal habitat for the elusive Small Mouth Bass.

Man Eastland! What a way to paint a dream! I'm already making plans in my head, and it's not even my property. "the elusive Small Mouth Bass."

Just awesome.

Bob,
Thanks for your interest! I sent you a message this evening.

Bobad - Your message Saturday pretty much nailed it right on the head. The sand got really thick right before he hit the gravel. Also, I didn't see the gravel hole until Saturday morning. That's when I saw it half full of water and I thought - uh-oh! Easy come easy go?

Eastland - Man! Like Sunil said, you painted a damn good picture! Unfortunately, I only have 17 acres. I gotta leave at least part of it to build a house and yard on or my wife would kill me!

My first and only pond doesn't even have water in it yet and I'm already dreaming about expanding it or connecting it to a second one.

I almost couldn't sleep the other night thinking about "what lies beneath" ... the clay.

I'm glad all of you experts were there to give me advice and let me know I made the right decision.

Thanks! I'll post a message later this week showing the start to finish of my pond.

some thoughts from an old excavater. Sand, gravel and ponds don't mix. Just finished building one two weeks ago with the same problem. Dug test holes and from good clay. Was just about done and the dozer started pumping up water. That is a bad sign of whats below. I found just about the same mixture you found. I say don't go deeper, it will get worse. I did my best to line the bottom with clay. But once it starts to pump water up from the weight of the dozer, things get worse. I got about a foot of clay over most of it. I am still praying.

I've been holding off on posting for a couple of days, giving this some thought. However, to put it simply, I can't see where digging a hole and then hitting water is a bad thing, especially when it comes to building a pond.

Could someone explain what the problem is with this scenario?? I can certainly agree that the initial post stating they hit gravel would be cause for concern. However, the susequent post where it shows water in the hole seemed to really turn up the heat against digging any further.

I can't recall any posts over the years where our advice to someone, who hit water while digging a pond, was to quickly cover it up and pray??

What am I missing?? I just sent in my subscription renewal because it looks like I get an "F" in pond building basics.

Russ

Let me take a stab at it Russ (no Jack involved). I think it's a matter of hitting gravel vs. hitting an aquifer.

Hit a vein/pocket of gravel (or sand) and you have to ensure it doesn't provide a leak out of the pond (especially thru the dam - we would like to avoid all leaks, but a dam leak could cause to a catastrophic dam failure). If it's small, you could dig it out and not put it in the dam without mixing it with a lot of clay.

Hit an aquifer and you know for certain you've got a working water path in & out of the pond. Leave it unsealed and your pond level will fluctuate with the level of water in the aquifier - could be seasonally up and down; if it's not an isolated aquifer I guess it would tend to drop long term, as many/most aquifers in the country are dropping due to development, agricultural use for irrigation, etc. (the Oglala Aquifer in Middle America is dropping somewhere in the inches to feet range every year, no recovery ever expected).

I don't recall the "pack it and pray" advice either, but we have discussed more than one pond that was tied into an aquifer. I think they all would have been ahead if the connection could have been sealed and severed. ETW is at the point in time where he hopefully can do this.

Russ,

In hilly areas, hitting the water table can be bad, or it can be a bonanza of cool, clear water.

In the flatlands, the water table is always at least a few feet below ground level. The pond's water level will rise and fall with the water table. In rainy months, the water table is very high in some flat areas. The pond level could possibly even be at an acceptable level. In late summer, the water table may drop to 6, 8, 10 feet deep or more.

A fellow a few miles down the road from here built a beautiful 3 acre pond 12 feet deep. It never would hold water in spite of everything he could do. There are fair-sized ponds not far from him, so he was just unlucky.

Theo and Bo,

Thanks for the explanation! I've never hit water when we built my two ponds but shortly after digging, you could see moist ground about a foot or two below grade. Other than the typical evaporation during summer, I don't have a problem with the water levels in my ponds.

Theo, the "cover it and pray" was a compilation of Bob's post (fill and pack) and Tom's post (I am still praying).

Thanks again for the education.

Russ,

The problem with springs and such is that they can go both ways, i.e. what looks like a source of water or inflow can become an outflow when the pond is full and water pressure causes the spring to reverse directions. Combined with dropping water tables and its a recipie for major leaks. I learned this in building my firat pond in East Texas from a veteran pond builder...my excitement at hitting at spring and eternal water supply was entirely deflated by his explaination as to why we had to pack it in two feet of clay.

ML,

When I did my first pond, pre-PB, I held the same thoughts you had about hitting water. Although it didn't happen, it was on my wish list. Obviously I still held those thoughts till Theo and Bo's explanation. Never thought about the negative of hitting water, especially when digging a pond.

Another day, another lesson learned.