Our webmaster has been tracking traffic on the site. He strongly recommends we sell one or two banner advertisements on the forum only. His rationale is that we have become so large we will soon be changing servers, taking up more room, and costs will rise. He says internet industry standards suggest we should be selling advertising.
We have held strong to the position this site should be informational, only.
I know a number of contributors here have a business and have derived income from clients initiated through our site, we have basically turned our heads. Some participants have advertised in the magazine, some have been in the resource guide. But, a number haven't.
Before we make any decisions, it makes sense to come before this group and humbly ask your opinions. Please, let me have your opinion about advertising on the forum...a banner ad on the left side of the forum page.
Your thoughts?

Bob, your post is probably overdue.I belong to "several" other forums and everyone has banner type or block adds and support icons for sale. I think it is much needed to stay in business and grow as you mention.You might also consider a volunter type membership where the status is (lunker etc) for different $$ amounts.(not mandatory but on a volunter basis)A symbol(like your trademark) gets attatched by the post name as a supporter. Ford Truck Enthusiasts does this for $15.00 per year.Lawnsite.com has a great format for their advertising and has 25,000 members to date.On that forum if you do not own or have hands on experience with a piece of equipment that you are posting about most likely a negative post will be deleted.(my point is all forums have rules)I also would have no problem paying a fee if a web address is mentioned in a post or my signature like I do already.A discount could be given if one already advertises perhaps. Many ways to go with this as it grows.My 2 cents Ted

There ain't no such thing as a Free Lunch - but no pop-ups, please.

Ads are not so bad - especially if they are pond related.

I agree with Theo - no popups!

Bob, I'm so glad this forum is here, and I truly look forward to seeing the site each day. There are a lot of characters here, and there is a lot of character here.

You should gain some monetary compensation from this valuable resource that you provide.

Thank you and thanks for asking.

I like the banner idea. This will give me a place to start looking for products and prices. I get the Pond Boss mag that has pond products advertised, but I don't always have one by me when I get an idea from this forum. It's not like there's pond products advertised everywhere and their really kind of hard to find.

Bob.. Whatever it takes to keep this forum up and running is O.K. with me. If advertising is required to cover the costs I would rather it be pond related, but do what you have to wether it be advertising, donations or yearly fees for use.

Just my 2 cents.

Dan

One of the things I've found interesting about this site is the enthusiasm that some have for providing time and effort to making quality posts.

I actually quite enjoy the fact that some forum members have some financial stake in their visibility on the forum. People like Ted Lea are generous with their time and make fair observations and assessments. I have found that in reading his posts and others like him that I develop some trust that will ultimately assist me in spending my money wisely. I think that if his product or knowledge was inadequate that he would be immediately exposed. There would be no mercy for someone who comes on here with a load of you-know-what! If I simply went to a website to find a product and knew nothing of the vendor I might think I was getting taken for a ride and would never "pull the trigger".

I am absolutely in favor of any vehicle that allows this site to stay economically viable (except of course, the dreaded pop-up). I wouldn't hesitate to support PB advertisers but would prefer one who's made a some posts. I've learned more on this site in 6 months than I think I would with years of courses and seminars. Keep it comin'!

Bob, since the members of this forum all enjoy and benefit from it, perhaps we could all share in the expenses. I don't think that any member has actively marketed his product on this site. Any who have benefitted financially have done so very passively, as if rendering a service to a member rather than pushing a product. Perhaps it would be more equitable to levy a "forum fee" to be paid at the time we subscribe or resubscribe to the magazine. Although we all enjoy the Pond Boss publication, I suspect that most of us spend far more time on this forum than we do reading the magazine.

It would be interesting to know how many potential suscribers began subcribing to the magazine after finding this site as I did. If it's a good number, and this site serves as a beacon for the magazine, then it may be counterproductive to charge access to this site.

At some point the magazine should be profitable enough to absorb the cost of this site. If not efforts must be made to reach a broader base and appeal.

I still think Pond Boss is just scratching the surface on potential surcribers.

If that's what it takes to keep this site up and running, and improve it than so be it. Please, Please, Please, no POP UPS

Another suggestion – I will contribute to partial payment for a banner to some of the fisheries biologists and vendors that have contributed so much of their time and efforts to this forum and by personal email.

To name a few, and apologize for omissions, Todd Overton of Overton Fisheries, Greg Grimes, Bill Cody and even Bruce Condello if anyone needs a good dentist/pond consultant

I'm all for it but no pop-ups. I'd give Bruce a visit but figure he could build a new pond with the dental work I need! Oh well only one more year with 2 kids in braces and then it's my turn.

Bob

Whatever it takes to keep the site going and remain vibrant. Banners with Pond stuff and/or membership charges are fine with me. The knowledge available on this site is priceless...no pop ups, however.

I like Georges idea.

Or, I wouldn't have a problem paying a reasonable membership fee to get on the site. Maybe a graduated one with magazine subscribers paying less. It and the posters here, pro's and hobbyists alike, have certainly saved my butt on numerous occasions. Also, the opportunity to hear about Larry Hartley's (Meadowlark) experiences with tilapia, Bruce with the redears and hybrids, others I could mention, are gold mines to me.

Bob, I have figured that some were making a buck off the site but have noticed that those people have been more than generous with their free advice. The ones that make a buck seem to have done so due to the reputation they earned by helping others. I would personally prefer paying some sort of annual fee and letting Greg, Ted, Bill, and others put a free banner up based on some sort of posting activity. Admittedly, there would be an administrative cost involved that would have to be covered.

You know, not long ago, I got a $15.00 crank bait and hung it up on the second cast. Most of us spend more $ than we want to admit on playing with our water holes. This site actually saves me $. I would rather pay for what I get than have the pro's do it. They are already susidizing my bad habits. Bottom line is that crank baits are expensive and Pond Boss isn't. Have you considered an E-mail survey to determine the possibilities?

I like the idea by Ted Lea the very best. For providing such a great service as this forum, you should be paid.

Banners yes, fee for site no. Hate the financial/mortgage ads but hopefully the banners would sell mostly to subject appropriate producers
Toby

Bob,
As a pond consultant, let us know the fees for banners ads. I would love to have a banner to help support the website if reasonable. We are currently working on new magazine ads and I was going to call about that anyway. Not sure why but in the past the mag ad in POnd Boss did work for me but are more than willing to advertise again. I have sold a few products here for sure and appreciate that. Of course you do know that is not why I post.

I would certainly pay for access, but I fear that if we charge for the forum, we may exclude some people who would otherwise join or even subscribe to the magazine. I suppose that "read-only" access could be free, but pay a small amount to post and enjoy the answers to your questions. Banners are certainly a good way to advertise, and I agree with the no pop-up request.

If the plan is to get the diverse iput that you currently have then I would say you shouldn't go to a pay to read or submit type of site. That would limit it to a very specific group and would probably keep out the new pond type of reader from making any contributions or asking the good questions that many take for granted over the years.

I would say that the best way would be to have banners and like everyone else ( NO POP-UPS )

You could also do something like have a standard site like this and a pay for consulting site that would allow for access to those with specific detailed questions that you should get consulting fees for as well. If you did that it would be an extension and growth opportunity for the pond consulting business.

Well thats my 2 cents ( only wish I could deposit them directly here for you )

Eric has a good thought...ever hear of the "Angling Report"? They solicit write-ups from traveling fisherpersons (who contribute pro bono) and then they charge for a database search/report on given topics. If you want to go to the Bahamas bonefishing, for example, you send them $5 or so and get all kinds of recent reports from the database.

One p.s if a change is made, could consideration be given to supporting an easier interface for posting pictures? I feel we could all benefit significantly from that functionality...and I for one would gladly pay.

This is a great website, and I can see why some vendors would love to run banner ads here.I would think that this forum generates a lot of new subscriptions to your magazine and other companies should be willing to pay you a decent amount to generate similiar traffic for their product offerings.

I would have no problem with a banner ad or two. Its the American way and can be used to improve the site and your magazine in many ways.

I would gladly support your advertisers were such ads to run.

I hope you are able to charge confiscatory rates

Banners are ok so long as they aren't too distracting! One site I frequent had a swat the fly banner that drove me away. You couldn't concentrate on the posts!

I would also like to see a vehicle for making contributions. Some sort of Icon beside your name for sponsors of the site. You could have annual sponsors, five year, lifetime ect. Put the money in a trust & use the intrest to support the site.

Bob,

Go for it. I'd be willing to bet that information on this forum has saved many participants a good deal of money already. That is true with me, anyway. Anything to keep this forum going and as vibrant as it is. Thanks.

All there going to do is make the site download slower and take up space on the screen there useless I say NO.

Other forums I belong to have advertising. I find it perfectly acceptable, not a detraction. In fact, on the subject of ponds/fish, I'd be interested in services/products advertising.

I echo the use of banners and advertisements. The intellectual brainpower on this forum is tremendous. The collection of advice from those with experience has broadened my understanding in many areas. It’s like having access to the very best pond book that talks back to you when you have questions. There’s nothing quite like this website. Everybody has a niche and is willing to share. Banner away!!!

I am a new member and have learned much in the month or so since I discovered the site. Had I been required to pay up front,I would not have entered the site. Banner ads might be OK if not too obstrusive, but pop-ups I despise.Preferrably, ads would be pond related. Perhaps a free general area for newbies,and a members only pay area for more detailed information...maybe allow Pond Boss subscribers full access.

Fish / pond / wildlife related banners would would be good. No dreaded pop-ups. You would have better knowledge than us, but I bet a lot of your forum members have subsequently became subscribers and ordered books. I know I did. Actually, my main purpose in subscribing to the magazine is supporting the forums. If all the magazine articles would be posted on this site in PDF format, I wouldn't even need a printed version. I wouldn't be in favor of a site user fee and think it could be counter productive.

If we expand the discussion a bit, I'd be a total POND BOSS junkie if not for two things. The search feature and lack of activity. Hopefully, a new host might equate to improved search capabilities and picture hosting.

This is a great site and I think you would have LOTS more members if they only knew of this site. I'm not sure how to get more members (some of which would almost certainly buy your books, subscribe, click on sponsor banner ads, etc.). I think the answer may be in POND BOSS buying banner ads on other outdoor forums such as crappie.com (where I learned of this after months of unsuccessful searching with Yahoo for a site just like this) or in linking up with one of those search engines to place your site higher in searches.

I think the contributors should get credit towards banner ads for their posts. Many have significantly helped me and others. I believe it is in the site's best interests to keep them involved, committed, and posting regularly (I miss Lakedoctor's posts; but greatly appreciate those from yourself, Mike, Bill, Greg, Dave, Steve, etc.).

One other way the site could generate more financial benefits is for POND BOSS to act as the broker or middleman for such things as purchase of Hybrid Striped Bass, Grass Shrimp, papershell crayfish, or whatever. Have links where we can order direct from this site. It would either cross link with state regs or have a table so we could know if it was legal to import and then process the order. It could help us wannabe pondmeisters, generate additional sales for vendors, and generate funds for POND BOSS. I'm in the market for grass shrimp, scuds, papershell crayfish, ruby reds, smallmouth bass, hybrid striped bass, and walleye right now.

Two thoughts:

1) I'm not sure Pond Boss has any way of knowing if Forum users are Magazine subscribers or not, given the prevalence of Handles here on the website. I don't think they know I subscribe, given that my subscription is not made out to my logon name. A change in the registration procedure/page, even if only a simple "do you subscribe to Pond Boss and under what name/address," would provide this info for the staff, who I assume would find it useful to decide if the website was supporting the magazine or vice versa.

2) I found this website due to the Pond Boss articles, mostly by Bob Lusk, which are reprinted at BassResource.com. I didn't have any idea anything like Pond Boss, magazine or forum, existed before that. So I think some way of getting the word out about Pond Boss could open the way up for a lot of other users/subscribers.
After a fairly short time reading material from the forum, I knew I had to try a subscription. Even though I would continue to subscribe if the website became defunct, I strongly support the use of banner ads to help keep up the website. I used to frequent a couple of other web forums which never had any ads that are just plain gone now - no way to access all that invaluable information. I would much rather see some ads here, even with the increase in download time, than have all this incredibly useful info go away. Plus, I'd miss you guys.

I think its a great idea but keep it seperate from forum. I would advertise in a Minute. Since getting the magazine never never got a call to advertise.

Bob
I to, like so many others, support the use of banners for advertising. (pop-ups are for sites with no class!) This site is a valuable resource and must continue.

An easier method of posting photo's would be nice for us "not so" computer literate. I believe we all benefit and appreciate viewing photos from around the Country.

Bonified Pond Boss forum junky,

Ed

Bob - I agree with the majority about the banners.

I also agree with Ed about making it easier for members and "computer dummies" like me to include pictures that are appropriate to their post. Talk to the "webmaster" and see if PB could provide a temporaty storage area and give members the ability to upload digital pictures to the Forum site. I realize this could involve a lot of costly memory space but the pictures would not have to be stored for very long; only a few days at most then they could be routinely and automatically dumped or wiped from memory to save space and cost.

Also I would like to see the forum headings expanded into more headings like names of fish groups and other general topics so the Questions and Observations section and a few others are not so crowded and lengthy.

Hey Bob, no matter what decision you make to come out right on the technical stuff, you are going to incur additional administrative costs to support the advertising or dues or graphic design or? Better overcharge to start.

Obviously this site is a victim of its own popularity. Paid advertising from posters opens a can of worms. As I previously stated, I prefer to pay a subscription. I don't want people like Bill or Greg or Ted or Cecil or others in the fish business have to justify advertising and also posting here. What happens if they decide it isn't financially feasible? Do they go away? Heck, Bill Cody already stays up late at night trying to help others and continually promotes Pond Boss magazine and books.

I think I would rather see advertising, if necessary, come from Purina or Stren or other big companies. I noticed recently that Bill Dance was advertising pond fertilizer on TV. Of course, if these guys thought it was an advantage to advertise, it would be OK. I just hate for them to feel that the onus is on them after they have saved so many of our butts. At the same time, Lusk and company have been paying all of the bills to support the site and that ain't right either.

Theo G., I think your first point is excellent. My own company is guilty of not using our own website to even 50% of it's full potential for targeted marketing. Because certain fields in the registration process are not required, Pond Boss can't (with ease anyway) derive the correlation between the forum and it's paying customers.

In your second point, you mentioned how you found Pond Boss; someone else, rangersedge I think, mentioned how he found it to.

I was on some broke-ass, hard-to-use fish or lake forum, I believe from one of the southern states.
There was not a lot of activity, and one guy had a post that hadn't been answered in days or months.

Someone posted a reply saying to go ask the question at this place called pondboss.com. He said you'll get a quick answer there. I think that someone was Bill Cody if I remember correctly.

If you had to guess what percentage of "active" pond owners in North America have seen this forum, what would you guess? 10%? 15%?

Sorry, Bob L. I didn't mean to get your thread off-topic. I should have prefaced my previous post saying that this whole web site can be a great source of revenue to Pond Boss in several ways.

Bob,
I have an idea to suggest.
On the Forum Page are the different categories;
Open, Pond Construction, Stocking a New Pond, Managing an Existing Pond, etc.
I would suggest a new category Advertisements.
A new paid advertisement would be posted... say 1 a day.
Previous advertisements would then be slid down the lists just like previous posts. (maybe a time limit of a couple months or so before being deleted.)
Then when a buyer is looking for a product he can go down the topic lists and find the ad topic he's looking for.
It is just a hunch that most people that come to the forum would look at the daily ad also.
Perhaps this idea would meet the goals of creating revenue through advertising and access to advertisers through the forum without being intrusive.

Everyone,
Great thoughts, all. Keep bringing new thoughts, too. My plan now is to review everyone's input, consider everything suggested, consolidate those ideas, talk to consultants in the internet advertising business, then come back to you guys with a refined idea what we want to do. This is as much your site as it is Pond Boss'. If it weren't for this group of seekers and seers, we wouldn't have nearly the enthusiasm.
I knew you guys would come through. I'll be back in a couple weeks with organized ideas.
Thanks.

I think you should have banners and something like "classified ads". I would buy products ranging from fish, food, feeders, and aeration systems...not to mention high dollar Dozer work for future improvements. We could all solicit for you, because we will gain all the benefits ! Wouldn't it be a perfect world if we could buy what we need off the site ? You know the crowd, we would post on the great products, rip the immitations. I'll be going into the Tilapia business soon, and need all the exposure I can get

My two cents worth.

Only have one area for new posts. All new topics go there, (kinda like questions and observations now). Then have somebody on staff there move threads that have seen no activity in a preset space of time to topically segregrated pages. So there might be an area on clearing muddy water, another on stocking, another on fertilizing...

The primary page could have the banner ads. The secondary pages could have related banner ads.

For a small 6 figure salary I will relocate and be the web site organization specialist.

Nick, hold on there.

I think you also meant to demand 8 weeks paid vacation, 15 paid holidays, company vehicle, and full medical for you, your family, and first cousins.

Oh, and a 35% pay increase every 6 months.

Yeah Nick, Who do you think you are? Lusk?

I hope advertizing would generate enough revenue to obviate having an access fee, for the fee would keep the curious away, and they are the future. As for ads, I am a minority of one who would much prefer pop-ups to banners. For the grand cost of nothing, anyone can get the excellent pop-up blocker called Noads (easy to find the site with any search engine). That way, the advertizers get to spend their budjet, Pond Boss gets the revenue, and we get to avoid the annoying banners.

But,whatever you decide, thanks for Pond Boss and the forum, Bob.
Lou

Here is a thought from a business perspective (I make some marketing decisions in my job): Companies that advertise like to put their money where it does some good. The first time I advertise I think "Is this going to reach the people who will buy my services." That one is easy. The second time I advertise I ask myself, "How much revenue did I make off this investment last time?" That is the big one. What is my point? I forget. Oh, wait, now I remember! If and when you buy products and services for your pond, remind them where you heard about them. And if you are in the market for Pond Services, at least take a look at the advertisers in the magazine and on the site. And that if we all blocked the pop-ups, no one would really be interested in investing any more advertising dollars into the beloved Pond Boss Site.

Bob,

Whatever it takes to keep the information flowing. Advertisements are fine, just keep changing them out once in a while to keep boredom down.

Well I would like to think that I could make at least a third as much as Lusk does if I worked for the nations most popular pond management website and magazine. No telling how much that man has. And he is so tight that he won't even buy a razor!

I agree with the majority here. No pop ups please, but feel free to place banner advertizements. There is plenty of "white space" on the forum and it would only add to the value of teh forum as long as the ads are related to the forum topics.

Go for it, It's the Amrican way.

I support the banner idea , and agree with Meadowlark and Bill Cody on the easier interface for posting pictures . Rangersedge Broker idea for selling fish and baitfish is great , local suppliers are hard to find . In fact im in the market for Tilapie , Crayfish , Golden Shiners and or Rosy Reds or Threadfin Shad now! I subscribe to the Magazine and read it in less than an hour after arrival . But i can spend hour's on this site learning new stuff every day.

Thanks to Pond Boss and all you unselfish and informative dealers !

----------- Please no pop-ups -------------

Okay...got it. No pop-ups, pond related suppliers only, switch them out from time to time, don't charge users, be careful of our valuable network of gurus who answer questions, Lusk needs to shave. Any other ideas? I will thoroughly digest all posts and be back in touch via the forum after we make a decision.

BLusk - You better check with your roommate before you shave. She maybe likes them fuzzy .