has anybody here ran electricity to the bank of their pond to power an aerator, lights, etc...?

What is the maximum distance you can run a 110 Volt line before the power leakage makes it a foolish idea?

My father-in-law has one of his ponds about 250 yards from the house and I'd like to aerate it. Is that to far to bury a 110 volt line?

What if I buried a compressed air line instead?

Wait...Now that I think about it...The cost of the line itself will make the decision for me...Its to expensive the way I originally envisioned. What If I had the power company put up a transformer...Would that be subsidized by the rural electrification or some other agency?

I'd love to here if any of you have had experience with mixing pond water and electricity (figuritivly I hope!).

Go to the following link and input your current for your pump it will give you the proper wire size to use and then you can figure if it is worth it.

Bob

http://www.jhlarson.com/ind_tables/calc_wiresize.htm

Tim W,

I expect you will hear from Bill Cody as I asked a similar question of the forum a couple of years ago. Just in case, here is what Bill told me...

All things considered, it is far better to push the air to the site rather than run the electricity.

In my case, that meant digging a trench with a middle buster and burying 3/4 inch pvc....you can also use the cheaper plastic pipe, but I choose the more sturdy route. My distance was about 600 feet to push the air. The aeration system worked beautifully the first time and every time since. No problems.

Consider the cost of running the electricity, the danger (electricity near water not good) and the best approach is push the air. No discernable loss of air volume.

I'm thankful that Bill gave me that addvice and maybe can pay him back a little bit by passing it on to you.

Sometimes it is beneficial to have electricity at the pond for things like bug light fish feeders, night lights, power for a fish cleaning table, water pumps, etc. I would consult with an electrician or get an estimate from him or the local power company. The estimates should include the proper sized wire.

Thanks Guys...

It looks like that would take way too much copper to run a simple 120 Volt line...Maybe down the road we could have the power company run a seperate line/meter...

At this point, it looks like we'll need to either bury an air hose or buy a windmill pump if we do decide to aerate.

Tim, 750 feet is considered a very short distance to run a buried airline. Depending on the number of diffusers and the CFM required to properly aerate your pond you "may" end up using 5/8 ID direct burial line to the pond edge and then 1/2 inch ID from there.5/8 line should cost you less than $15.00 per 100ft. (Lowes Home Depot type stores)Bill C. is correct on having power pondside as it comes in very handy at times.You may want to consider trenching in for the airline(s) and dropping a 10or12-2 UF with ground in at the same time and have the best of both worlds.(code permiting)Have done this many times) It is also easier to set the valves on a multiple diffuser setup if it is pondside. Figure about 4-5 amps to run a pair of diffusers on low volt.Good Luck

In my area, an additional transformer means an additional meter at an extra $20 per month plus power used.

I guess it all depends upon your terrain, I couldn't bury an airline 200 yards if I tried...to much rock and too many seasonal creek beds. Running another electrical post is possible for me, but expensive...I use minimal power for lights, fish cleaning station, and aeration by solar power. That route isn't cheap up front either, but the panels last forever, and good batteries go 10-20 years. Low voltage (12V) doesn't fry you either

Tim W, I was designing a system today that had a similar situation as yours.I thought I would pass along a number that I had our Aeration Manager at Vertex (Sue Cruz) confirm. A client asked just how far away we could put this pump from the pond bank.This particular Brookwood piston pump produces 2.67 CFM open flow (this is a small single piston pump)and has a diffuser that requires 2 CFM (XL model)in 12 ft of water. This small system can have an airline 17,000ft (thats seventeen thousand)and still have 2.23 CFM at the diffuser with a back pressure reading of 30 PSI (pump good to 35 psi)So again if you match the pump and diffuser to your needs and your situation it can easily be done, PS Eastland, that would be a lot of trenching in your neck of the woods !! Ted

Somehow missed this post but I can respond to your electrical questions. First let me say that there is no problem with running electricity to your pond. I have it ran to my pond.

You need to know how much current your aerator pulls. It should be listed on the motor. It is listed as the FLA (full load amperage)

Run PVC conduit for the wire, from your electrical box at the supply end to the area of the pond where you want an electrical feed. I suggest that you use wire which is rated for wet conditions. Any supply house sells this conduit and wire.

A 14 guage wire can handle 20 amps.
A 12 guage wire can handle 25 amps.
A 10 gauge wire can handle 30 amps.
An 8 guage wire can handle 40 amps.
The distance is no problem. (the electric company runs wiring for miles.) I would maybe upgrade my wiring by one size if I were concerned.

Use weatherproof housings for your plug-ins at the pond. Be sure and use a GFI equipped receptacle for safety. If you want, you can build a little "dog house" to protect your aerator from the weather. Mount the receptacle inside the dog house and all will be OK.

Hi Nick length of wire does make a big difference due to I2R losses in conductors. It also makes a big difference in your insurance should you burn something down or electrocute someone by using improper conductor size or not using GFI outlets as specified by the National Electric Code and your local codes. There are specific sections concering wiring around ponds swimming pools and greenhouses due to the constant moisture. Here in Alabama you don't have to be licensed to do wiring on your own property if you own it but other states differ in their regulations. It is always safer to look into everything prior to doing it. Remember electricity and water don't mix.

Bob

After about a 2% line voltage drop, electric
motor efficiency falls off disproportionately.
Larger drops can also cause excess motor heating
and damage. I've streched some of my line runs
to 5% drops with minimal performance loss of
equipment. Voltage drop can be calculated for various gauges of copper cable using resistance
per foot of the wire and current consumption of
the device.

Agree with both posts. But, say that you have an aerator motor pulling 12 amps. So you decide to use 10 gauge wire, it can handle more than double that current. 10 gauge wire has a resistance of 0.9988 ohms per 1000 feet. At 12 amps, the I squared R loss for 500 yards (250 to the pump and back (it takes a full path) would be 215 watts of power lost. The wiring would drop about 12 volts, taking it away from the motor. So as you can see, after doing the math; I am absolutely wrong and you are right. Too much power loss.

Run an air line.

Please read this post then delete it. It takes a real man to admit when he is wrong and I... well, just delete the post.

OK, OK, so I can't admit error, upon further thought, if you wired a 220 volt pump:
To run a 220 volt motor and wires, versus a 110 volt motor and wiring halves the current, which is what you are worried about. The same aerator would pull 6 amps, doing the math, the power loss in the wire is less than 54 watts. Much more acceptable. But run an air line.

Please understand that I am very stressed today. The president called to get my opinion about how to run the country. I had him on hold while I was talking to the CIA about Iraq. The Dallas Cowboy cheerleaders are always calling wanting a date, which makes my wife very jealous. I had to go to Sears to model underwear for their catalog, so I was very busy today and just didn't think the post through.

No problem Nick I was mainly trying to bring up the fact to the group that there are certain rules to be followed in anything we do and it can come back to haunt you if something goes wrong. I cringe in some of the greenhouse forums where someone talks about running a 1500 watt heater through 200 ft of extension cord to heat their greenhouses, the worst problem is that most of the losses and subsequent heating occurs where they plug into the outlet not equally through the wiring, good way to burn down a house and have to live in the greenhouse! Have a great weekend caught a small bass last night from the pond and my 3 year old came running from the play area well he spent the next half hour till dark winding in a rattle trap with dad's help. Didn't get anymore but think he is gonna be bugging me all weekend to try again. Looks like a fishin pole for his birthday.

Bob

Bob,Nick and Others:

Question.....looking to run electricity to my lake some 125' away from the house. My goal is to:
1. Buy a pump to move water up approx. 14' of head into a small overflow pond and waterfall, falling into 2-3 more lined koi/goldfish ponds up beside the house and back some 300' of streambeds into the 19 ac. lake again in a "U" shape design moving approx. 5000 gal/hour or more. Should I buy a 220 volt pump and wire or use a 110 volt pump remembering the factoring of energy efficiency over a period of time and pay back? Is 5000 gal/hr a very high water flow or not. Looking for a medium movement of water thru out the watercourse but not a rushing river.
2. Buying a fountain and lighting system for the lake that would move water up into the air some 10-12' and 20' plus feet in diameter. Should this also be a 220 volt motor and can I have a 220 recepticle on a post to meet my goals in question 1 and 2????? Thank's for your thoughts and input on my future project.

Hi Rowly, you need to look at your version of the NEC and make sure it it the same as here in the U.S. If you are running under 10 amps 1200 watts total then you can use 10/2 underground feeder with ground and do just fine. Anything more than that I would run 10/3 with ground and feed a small breaker box so you would have both 220 and 110 at the termination. This is how I feed my 28 by 32 work garage because I need both 220 and 110 for equipment although I am running #6 as I need higher current capacity as I also feed the folks RV when they are here and the A/C pulls quite a bit of power. I also use a GFI breaker in the main breaker box in the house to feed this line as I do for all lines that go outside of the house to the utility barns and the greenhouse along with the well pump. When I moved into the house I found that the previous owner had replaced the well pump the only thing is they replaced a 3 wore pump with a 2 wire pump and didn't remove the control box which meant everytime the well would come on the third wire which sould have gone to the start winding went to the ground on the well pump! Found this out when I was designing a control system to turn the water on and off when the well casing need to refill. Blew up the first control box into about 10 pieces as the 5 volt logic I was using didn't really like have 220 volts a/c on it. Love the things you find when you buy a house!

Bob

First thing I learned about DC controls.

They won't work after you let all the smoke out.

Bob:

Thanks for your input. I love the idea to have both 220 and 110 at the termination point closer to the water. This could serve the fountain, water fall pump and the general 110 ground lighting along the watercourse back into the lake. Great idea......Thanks

Rowly

PS. What's your thoughts on 220 vs. 110 pump and fountain in my particular circumstance? The wiring will be more expensive for 220 but I think payback and energy efficiency 24/7....8 months a year will return it quickly? Any downside on using 220 in either application?

Use 220, 220 needs one extra wire. Wire is relatively cheap. As stated before, 220 pulls half the current of 110. Which results in less line loss (loss of power in the wiring to the equipment). Buy four wires to run from your existing power box and run two hots, (it takes two for 220) one neutral and a ground. Or, buy three wires, two hots and a neutral, and buy a grounding rod and drive it into the ground for a local grounding spot which saves a wire. A five foot rod should be adequate so near water. The wet dirt provides good contact. The ground is just for safety and should never have current. It won't hurt your fish.

The bigger wire you run, the better, within reason. Bigger wire has less resistance, and can handle more current.

Then go buy a small breaker box. Buy the number of 220 and 110 volt breakers that you need and have somebody who knows electricity help you hook it up. Install a receptacle right beside it. You can never have enough receptacles. You may want to wire your pumps direct to the breaker box (no plug in). Saves the cost of a plug in. Or you may want to install a timer to turn it off at night.

In buying wire, use wire that is bigger than you need. In other words, if you calculate that your pump, lights, etc will pull a total of 30 amps, install wire good for at least 50 or so amps. It is better because it reduces line loss due to bigger wire having less resistance.

For buried cable:
6 gauge wire can handle 55 amps.
4 gauge wire can handle 70 amps.
3 gauge wire can handle 85 amps.

Also as temperature drops, wire can handle less amperage. So since you live in Canada... just use bigger wire. You will find the cost increase is about 30 to 50 dollars per size increase for a 500 foot spool, which is all you need.

Lots of options.

I ran an underground wire to my dock that was about the distance you are talking about. I also ran a water line at the same time in the same hole. I used aluminum wire instead of copper because of the cost. aluminum doesn't conduct as well as copper so the wire was twice as big. I also put gfci breakers on all of the outlets. The total cost was about $1500 with me doing almost all of the work.

I built a small stream similar to what you are describing using a very quiet 220 volt pump. I think it only uses 3amps and pumps about 15000 galons of water an hour. It has been running for about 3 years now without stopping. The cost for the pump was about $500.

james,
Will you give the make & model of your pump.
Model number, gpm, rpm ect?

Nick, Bob and Others:

Thanks for your detailed descriptions. I will use it wisely and have an electrician wire this project up.

Rowly

James:

Could you provide the info. Ric asked......15000 gal an hour, how big is your fish pond and width of streambed to handle that volume of water movement. Thanks

Rowly

I'm interested also my 4600 gph pump in the Koi pond draws that much current and it is a very low wattage design.

Bob

Meadowlark or Bill Cody
Im new here and had my first pond built last summer. I want to start aerating it this year. I would like to do the pvc line for the air that you mentioned and have a few questions. Do i use the regular pvc and glue it together, i have about 400 feet to run it? How do i make the transition from the pvc to the underwater tubing for the difusers?
I think this pvc air line idea is brillant!
I would appreciate any tips you can offer.
Thanks

btbubba- You have to glue it together if it has to hold pressurized air. If you are using it to just encase and protect an inner airline then glueing is not necesssary.

I have never used pvc pipe as an underground airline but it has and it can be done. I have always used the black polylethylene water pipe; primarily since it is cheaper.

When using the pvc pipe, I prefer to use the white pvc vs the cream colored pvc. If using white pvc they make a glueable end coupling for the pvc that is either 1. female to slip over the pvc pipe with other end female threaded (female adaptor-SLIP xFNPT) or 2. female slip for pipe and other end is male threaded (male adaptor- MNPTx SLIP). There are then fittings (usually gray color)with 1a one female threaded end and other end is a hose barb or 2a male threaded and other end hose barb. Screw appropriate one in the fitting that you have glued onto the pvc; slip your underwater airline onto the hose barb. Parts 1 and 2a should be the easiest to find in Home Depot or Lowes. Part 1a is often hard to find at most stores. NOTE the hose barbs are most commonly stamped w/ 1/2" which is truly a 5/8" hose diameter. However the 1/2" black poly fits these 1/2" hose adaptors (5/8" garden hose also fits these 1/2" hose adaptors). It sounds confusing and it is, the plumbing industry has mixed sizes for different styles of pipe. Make sure the fittings will match your airline. Take a piece of airline with you when shopping for parts.

Bubba,

What Bill C described is exactly what I installed in one of my ponds last fall. I only had to run about 20' of PVC from the barn to the pond. The system ran trouble-free for about a month till I shut it down for the winter.

Bill's comment about the sizing of the barbed fittings is right on the mark. Bring a piece of tubing with you when you go.

Russ

bowtiebubba,

I used 3/4 inch pvc with standard fittings. Transitions are easy just get the correct fitting and glue it. The pvc is far better than the plastic because the plastic may have pin hole leaks that you can't see without pressure testing and also because of the durability of the pvc vs the plastic. It costs a little more but is well worth the cost.

Thanks guys. I think im goimg to go with the pvc.
Thanks for the help.