Pond Boss
Posted By: bc wheres the bass? Anyone? anyone? - 05/18/04 04:53 AM
I wrote this a while ago but I am writing the same question. The answer I received last time was become a better fisherman I am looking for something a little deeper this time. I stocked my pond "by the book" I am having great catches with blue gill they are huge my crappie seem to be doing wonderful I am catching a few nice shellcrackers and all kinds of channel cat. What I have not caught one single bass, no one has nothing nada 0 zilch! I saw one last spring swimming along the top of the water it was about 5 inches long I caught him with a net and put him back. since then NOTHING! some say they are there, there is just to much for them to eat others say a blue harring (spelled wrong) could have got them, though I should not have that problem any more. Any suggestions? Should I restock it with proper number of bass or let it go? I fished it hard since early march and not so much as seen one swimming buy? everything else is growing out of control I have the biggest blue gill you have ever seen catfish are ready to harvest crappie are going mad. Everything else is as healthy as a horse!?????
Posted By: lee Re: wheres the bass? Anyone? anyone? - 05/18/04 01:19 PM
couple questions,what size pond,when did you stock,and how many did you stock?my lake is just starting to get fair to good bass fishing and it's all most 3 years old.
Posted By: ken Re: wheres the bass? Anyone? anyone? - 05/18/04 01:29 PM
strange you don't at least see them, when pond starts to warm they usally like to hang in the top water where its nice and warm , whats the visibility in the pond? when i walk the bank i see them up ahead hanging out. i'd think you would see them.
Posted By: Meadowlark Re: wheres the bass? Anyone? anyone? - 05/18/04 01:49 PM
BC,

Some possibilities include 1) poaching by birds (aka water turkeys, herons, etc,) 2) poaching by animals e.g. otters and of course 3) poaching by humans. I've experienced all three and they have made a tremendous negative impact on my bass population. The human poaching not only resulted in removal of fish, but it also caused the bass to become "educated" to where they will only very rarely take artificials and will only feed on live bait, i.e. small blue gill. I now have all three problems under control and am in recovery. Perhaps you have experienced some of these also.
Posted By: fish Re: wheres the bass? Anyone? anyone? - 05/18/04 02:11 PM
SOUNDS LIKE YOU HAVE A NEW LAKE,HOW OLD IS THE POND?MY GUESS WITHOUT KNOWING THE ANSWER TO THE ABOVE QUESTION IS YOU HAVE NOT WAITED LONG ENOUGH TO LET YOUR POND MATURE.I'VE BUILT 2 LAKES AND THEY BOTH TOOK ABOUT 3 YEARS BEFORE THE BASS FISHING GOT VERY GOOD.I DO HOWEVER THINK THE CRAPPIE ARE GOING TO HURT YOU IN LONG TERM EVEN THOUGH I DO NOT BELIEVE THIS TO BE THE PROBLEM NOW.IN A SMALL POND THEY WILL OVER RUN YOU 9 TIMES OUT OF 10.I WOULD SIT BACK A WAIT,WHEN I STARTED I FOUND 1000 REASON'S WHY MY BASS FISHING WAS NOT AS GOOD AS THE BREAM AND CATFISH.I'VE HEARD EVERYTHING FROM BIRDS GOT THE FISH,TO MANY BREAM AND THERE EATING THE BASS EGGS,ETC.SIT TIGHT AND WAIT IT OUT.GOOD LUCK
Posted By: Fishman Re: wheres the bass? Anyone? anyone? - 05/18/04 02:39 PM
If you stocked your pond "by the book" it probably wouldn't have crappie in it. I'll echo what others have said, if you want a good answer we need more details on what size pond was stocked, when it was stocked, how many of what and how big.

You probably have nothing to worry about, but I can't tell.
Posted By: Rangersedge Re: wheres the bass? Anyone? anyone? - 05/19/04 10:48 PM
If you have some shallow water coves where bass might be spawning, you might be able to use a seine to at least see if you have some. Most will probably jump over the seine top (where you could see them go by). Ideally, a big seine (8' x 100') would be best, but you could probably get some idea even with the biggest minnow seine (4' x 20'?) you can find - just have people on both ends making a lot of movement.
Posted By: Eastland Re: wheres the bass? Anyone? anyone? - 05/19/04 11:26 PM
BC, I think you should re-stock. If you're not seeing/catching them you had something unusual happen. Especially if your fishing/catching everything else...have you tried top water lures in the a.m. ? Anyway, here's what I'm doing over the next 4 days. I'm ready to stock bass myself, and I have access to excellent breeding material, I'll be fishing for bass to relocate. I will catch a lot of fish...but it's the "superior" fish I'm going to keep and transport. As I've posted before, I love fishing, and it doesn't bother me to be patient, I want to stock only high quality breeders. I would rather stock a bass that comes from a pond with Florida/Native mix and is 25% larger than his peers, it's not rocket science to judge the genetics of a fish. I may not be able to tell you exactly what strain of bass it is, but I will know that for the length, the weight is exceptional compared to other fish it's size...everything else being equal. Caution should be given to transporting possible diseases, only relocate fish from a proven establishment.
Personally, I feel better knowing I selected the breeding material for the future of my pond...but, it's not by the book, again.
Posted By: bc Re: wheres the bass? Anyone? anyone? - 05/20/04 01:42 AM
I think the same thing but I think I am going to take the advice of the guy who says wait it out. I am going to stop fishing for everything else and go back to bass fishing for the rest of the summer and fall and see what happens. thanks for all the input from everyone.
Posted By: bc Re: wheres the bass? Anyone? anyone? - 05/20/04 04:17 PM
hhmmm, very interesting
Posted By: TROPHEYBASS Re: wheres the bass? Anyone? anyone? - 05/21/04 03:26 PM
the problem could be the amount of crappie in the lake. the crappie can take over a lake as bass can. they are competing against each other. they are the predetors of a lake. the bass you have stocked have probally not grown too much, so they are hard to catch. having brim in the lake is great, bass love them. i would check out the food supply, maybe shock the lake and get the crappie out of it. i enjoy bass fishing more than catching crappie. that is my take.....
Posted By: Fishman Re: wheres the bass? Anyone? anyone? - 05/21/04 06:19 PM
Still no additional details provided. BC, if you're going to ask a question and in the same breath complain about the quality of help you got on a previous question, then at least have the courtesy to provide additional details when asked. First lee, then myself asked for additional details so that we could better answer your question. And you blew us off. Bad form.

Sizes and numbers of each species of fish, approximate stocking date, size and max depth of pond, amount of habitat/structure, all are relevant to your question. Without at least some of that data, everything is just a WAG.

Please take my comments as constructive criticism designed to better help you get your question answered.
Posted By: bc Re: wheres the bass? Anyone? anyone? - 05/21/04 07:50 PM
Ok fishman take it easy, as to answers to your question I "assumed" you all did not want to get that deep into my problem. I figured you would give a half___ answer and move on. Since I have your attention and you are willing to help here it goes. I can not answer all you questions at this sitting because I will have to look up numbers of fish though I could just guess. The pond is about 3/4 of an acre oblong not round Its starts shallow at one it that is fed from a creek that gets a lot of water on a rain and I mean alot of water it comes forward to the damn and is fed by two other wet weather creeks (only when it rains,), at the damn it is about 12- 14 feet deep. it is all red clay nice green grass all around it has a 4 inch overflow pipe that the state bioligist recommended that is about 3 time two small so it overflows the damn when it rains pretty good I can handle about 1 inch per day as long as it is slow and steady and not a downpour. As for structure I have christmas trees and I planted some oak trees in concrete when I built it for cover. I also planted a oat in the bottom and on the dam for the fish before the water came. the grass (oats) were probably 2 feet high before the water overtook it. No one believed me except for my dozer guy just how much water came into the pond area he now says he is glad he listened. He was finished with the pond last october 1 1/2 years ago(2002)buy thanksgiving it was full and running over the top of the damn, tahts a lot of water. I made 1 side a steep drop off bank with two points coming out the other side is the damn and a slight elongated hump down the middle about 2-3 feet high with rocks big and small along it. I wanted to do more but ran out of time due to the water rising. As for the fish I put in channel cat 15 to eat, blue gil,l shell crackers, and bass according to everyone "specs" the old guy also through in black crappie which I did not want but let him talk me into it. He seemes to think he new more about it than the rest of you all because he told me to quit believing everything I read. He even throught them in for free becaause I was persistant on not wanting them. So sucker me who cant pass up anything for free took them. I must say I have had a ball with my kid catching them. Anyway, the catfish are and have been harvested anywhere from 2 pounds and up. The blue gill are longer yhan my hand and as thick some are huge, the crappie are about the same they are all eating size but I am going to wait till next spring before harvesting them to give them a little more time, I have a throw net which just yesterday I caught 10 baby blue gill in anywhere from 4 inches to one inch about the size they were when I bought them in 2 throws of the net. As for the bass none nothing zero I saw one last spring they would have been in my pond at this point for 5 months it was about 4 inches long if I had to guess and he was swimming along the top as if he were cold and slow I caught him with a long net I had and looked at him he looked and swam sluggish so I let him go he swam out of sight and to this day I have not caught, seen or so much as found a dead one since? Oh I also stocked about 8 pounds of fat heads for food. If they lived? I have seen a couple of those dead and floating early spring. I have also had a couple of run ins with blue herrings I am winning the war, few ducks, thousands of tad poles bull frogs and regular frogs out the ying yang and even 1 snake who is no longer with us. And a beaver who stayed for 2 days and decided to move along, he was given a choice and he decided on a new pond possibly further down the road??? Also I have a lot of craw dads which I did not stock but some of those are getting pretty darn big, I found a claw on the bank yesterday it was pretty good size I must have missed one of my winged friends who must have got him. There it is I cant think of anything else except I do not have any ariation though I am thinking of a fountain. I also have a few cattails but they are not to bad. If I forgot anything please let me know. Still seems odd no bass?????? Oh and its all private next to my house of the road so no one but me family and friends are fishing it. I caught a couple of bass this spring 22,21,211/2 and 20 inches about 6 pounds was my biggest, tough year. my buddy wanted me to take them home and put them in I did not however afraid I would mess up the cycle, instead they are in my freezer soon to be in my deep fyrer.
Posted By: bc Re: wheres the bass? Anyone? anyone? - 05/21/04 08:45 PM
Oh as someone pointed out the streams feeding my ponds are not "streams" they are hollows between hills but when it rains they really poor in the water but as for an actual stream with fish and holes that hold water, no they just come from the top of my property down more like drainage of my property but natural. on a good rain the one runs about 6-8 inches deep and about 2 ft across but it does not come from anywhere so iy would be hard for fish to get in it and survive.
Posted By: Fishman Re: wheres the bass? Anyone? anyone? - 05/23/04 02:21 AM
Now that's some information I can work with. I think we can get somewhere with that.

There doesn't seem to be any serious problem with your pond other than perhaps the excess overflow. Habitat sounds good and poaching doesn't sound like it could be an issue.

It sounds like you put all the fish in at the same time which is generally frowned upon. But, lots of people do it and some of the ponds turn out fine so it can work.

The thing that concerns me about it though is that lots of fish are stocked in the late spring. Folks get to thinking about it too late. So they stock some 3" bluegill, some 10" catfish, some 2-3" bass (freshly spawned), and in your case, some crappie. If those crappie were 5", they would eat a bass 3" long easy.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that the small bass available from May on are a risk in my opinion. They are vulnerable to a lot of things a 6" bass wouldn't worry about.

Let me tell a brief story to illustrate my point. Two lakeowners, both stocking their lakes appropriately with one exception . . . they also put in 2-3" bass in the spring. Only 25 to the acre too. Fast forward on one lake 3 years. The lakeowner is upset because nobody is catching any bass and he calls me for an electrofishing survey. After a solid hour of electrofishing (on a 40 acre lake) the bass catch is 2 4-pound fish and 13 fingerlings. Golden shiners and bluegill abound, but nothing to eat them. The other lake posted similar results after two years.

My suggestion? Stock 25 6" bass per acre and monitor closely. Their response? Let's wait and see what happens "because I've already spent $xxxxx.00 on this damm thing and I don't want to spend anymore!" Oh - kaaay.

So, if you stocked small bass fingerlings in at the same time as your other fish, and you are now seeing LOTS of prey (tadpoles, etc.), my suggestion would be the similar to what I told them. I'd recommend you stock 20-25 bass at least 8" long from a reliable source. Don't get them from the overpopulated pond down the street . . . they could be 5 years old.

Now, if you stocked bass 4" or larger in size, I have to believe that they're in there still. A little beatle-spin work is in order.

I can't think of a single lake I've stocked with 6-8" bass in the fall that hasn't turned out great. And I've sure never had anyone complaining that they couldn't catch them.
Posted By: bc Re: wheres the bass? Anyone? anyone? - 05/23/04 10:08 AM
Ok sounds like a plan if I can find them that big, my problem is a good hatchery and it seems you can not mail order fish? So I will have to look for them. Also would you introduce them now or wait till fall or when?
Posted By: Sunil Re: wheres the bass? Anyone? anyone? - 05/23/04 01:56 PM
BC, I live in Monroeville, PA, and my pond is in Somerset, PA. So I'm not that far from you, relatively.

Call John Sprock at Keystone Aquaculture, 717-834-6772, if you're having trouble finding larger LMB.

I've bought 2lb LMBs from him last fall and this spring (about 5 weeks ago).

He also had 8-10" LMB that I bought from him last fall.

You always have the option to catch and relocate some LMB too.
Posted By: Fishman Re: wheres the bass? Anyone? anyone? - 05/24/04 06:44 PM
If you can do it in the next month or so, great. Otherwise, I'd wait until cooler weather.
Posted By: Eastland Re: wheres the bass? Anyone? anyone? - 05/24/04 11:05 PM
I just transported (2) 120 quart coolers full of adult bass, 87 degrees, 4 hours...lost 2 fish. If you go this route, be sure to run above water aerators circulating the water, my trip kept water temps cool to the touch, around 80 or so. Time is running out, if it's over 90, you better have a short haul.
Posted By: dwb Re: wheres the bass? Anyone? anyone? - 05/25/04 02:15 AM
Im only a "few miles" away in SW Pennsylvania and stocked Bass, Bluegill, Catfish, and minnows in Fall 2002. I put in about 100 bass in a 1 acre pond and they have always been very visable along the shore in spring. This spring (1.5 years after stocking) they are agressive and easily caught on live or artificail bait. They range in size now from about 8 to 12 inches. They are obvious in the morning along the banks. I would think that if you can't find ANY Bass, you definitely don't have TOO many, so why not add more. Can't hurt, if your "lost Bass" suddenly re-appear, eat some. From my observations, if you don't see any Bass, there probably aren't very many.
Posted By: bc Re: wheres the bass? Anyone? anyone? - 05/27/04 04:08 AM
Am I eating crow? I was fishing yesterday and I was back on the back one on the shallow end of the pond up on a slight hill looking down trying to catch one of those green sunfish I received(which I did) and there was a tremendous argument in the water between two unknown things? As I stood there silent and dumbfounded at the possibility of something in my pond that big i noticed a black fin that caught my eye as I watched I noticed It was a largemouth approx. 14 16 inches long cruising out to deep water? As I am an avid fisherman of bass the I.D. of the bass is not in question but the size is I know everything looks bigger under water but with my polorized glasses and my experience catching them I am 1) sure of the approx. size though I believe it could have been a little bigger but I always try to estimate on the small side.ANd 2. Is it possible to hace fish that size in 18 months, As big as the rest of my fish are I would say yes, but it seems pretty fishy? I have always heard the growth rates in the beginning of a new pond are better than any other time, what do you all think?
Posted By: Greg Grimes Re: wheres the bass? Anyone? anyone? - 05/27/04 02:29 PM
You may have your answer. As fishman said you could have lost the bass for several reasons. So if this bass was in the pond already he could have consumed smaller bass. However I think it was one you stocked. That much growth is acheived when you have a limited number of bass. IN other words you have few bass (explains whey you can not catch them) and they are top dogs with little competetion with food. If you can catch him and he is really fat with a small mouth it is one you stocked.
Posted By: bc Re: wheres the bass? Anyone? anyone? - 05/28/04 12:44 AM
Now I have seen a glimpse of him I will attempt tp pull out the big guns so I can see what he looks like.
Posted By: Randy H. Re: wheres the bass? Anyone? anyone? - 05/31/04 02:02 PM
BC,

If you decide that you still need to restock LMB there is a hatchery just outside of Cincinnati. The name is Jones Hatchery and it is in Newtown. Being in southeast Ohio you are in their delivery area. They just delivered 8 grasscarp to my pond last week and all orders over $150 are free of any delivery charges. Not sure what they charge for delivery of smaller orders. They are also open on Saturdays until 6:00 pm which makes it convenient for those of us who have to work for a living. You can find their website here: www.jonesfish.com
Posted By: bc Re: wheres the bass? Anyone? anyone? - 08/09/05 03:53 AM
I am finally getting back about this, I have been catching 12to 16 inch bass lots of them my bluegill are huge my crappie are huge my catfish are huge everything is growing at an atonishing rate? I am trying to add apic with this to show you all one my daughter caught just the other day, tell me if you can open the pic, Thanks guys my pond is doing great. Even with the crappie. Soory do not know how to add pics
Posted By: Ric Swaim Re: wheres the bass? Anyone? anyone? - 08/09/05 11:53 PM
bc,
Look here for posting pic's:
http://www.pondboss.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=20;t=001628
Posted By: AaronhomeIN Re: wheres the bass? Anyone? anyone? - 08/11/05 04:54 AM
bc,

Did you end up stocking bass in your pond or are you catching your previous stocking which might have been eluding you?
Posted By: squeeky Re: wheres the bass? Anyone? anyone? - 08/11/05 03:50 PM
I've experienced the fish loss problem,
but the answer was obvious - herons and
water turkeys. What they didn't eat, they
speared and wounded. But, these birds are
not discriminating, they will go after
all types of fish - not just bass. Also,
you should see evidence of bird predatation,
ie, partial eaten fish, skeletal remains,etc.
Curiously, I'm wondering how Meadowlark has
managed to control the bird problem.
Posted By: Meadowlark Re: wheres the bass? Anyone? anyone? - 08/11/05 04:34 PM
squeeky,

I would never claim that I have "controlled " the bird problem.

Because of environmentalists, etc. the water turkeys, aka cormorants are well beyond control. All one can do is try to protect your fish as best you can.

Fortunately, I live in a State that recognizes the terrible consequences of water turkeys to private fish interests. My State has a water turkey harvesting permit. Without it, I honestly would have given up on ponds in my area.

Herons do not bother me anything like the water turkeys. In fact, I allow herons to visit my ponds without interference. Water turkeys on the other hand, you simply can not cut them any slack...they will eat every small to medium fish in your pond.

The PETA's and environmentalists of this world do not have significant influence in the Great State of Texas...yet.
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