Could some explain to me the F1's...this is the first time i have heard of them...so if you could explain their genetics, pros, cons...etc thanks

Chris

The term F1 LMB refers to a first generation cross-breed between a northern strain LMB and a florida strain LMB. Northerns are known for being more agressive and less wary of hooks and lines but their life span is shorther. Floridas are somewhat more selective in what they'll bite but reach much larger sizes because they live longer (I've heard differing opinions on whether or not they grow faster).
The F1's retain the advantages of both strains. I've also heard that there is evidence to sugest that the world record 22Lb 4oz LMB was a naturaly occuring F1.

-Scott

so if im stocking a pond which type of LMB should i go with...northern, Florida, or F1 strain?

F1 for sure

ok guys thanks for the info...one more question...what happens to the second, third generation bass...will there characteristics be as good...and also if i want to grow some trophy F1 LMB how many per acre should i stock on a 3 acre pond with fatheads, golden shiners, and bluegill?

The quick answer is 50 to 100 LMB per acre depending on your management style(s). One of the concerns I've heard of from Pro's is actually getting F1's when you order.

50 /acre at the most if you want trophy bass. this is of course stocking fingerlings bass and assumes your forage base is established first.

Second generation should be 25% pure FLA 25% pur Norhern and 50% mixed. The mix is not a F1, meaning it is not a cross from pure Northern and pure Florida. Future genrations will be a mix of all the genetics mentioned. If your goal is for trophy you may want to stock 100 F1 and 50 pure Florida in a 3 acre pond to provide a little more on growth side of things, but keep in mind your management is much more important. What I mean is fertliization, feeding, harvest. Proper management is the key and genetics is just the start.

so greg could you give me some tips on pond management with these F1's?

boy triton, you better wait until greg rests his fingers for awhile, cuz that's a biiiiigggg question!!! have you ordered the book "trophy bass" from this website? i'm sure these guys would love to help, but you may also find it helpful to have it in print to view at your leisure. you are in for a lot of fun, and a lot of learning. good luck

i was also wondering if anyone knows... i live in northern arkansas, will f1's or fl. strains survive up here? what if i already stocked 1 year ago with the bass provided by the game and fish commission which i believe were just northern strain lmb? i plan to add more bass in the future now that the pond is full, should i stock with f1's, fl.strain, northern; will they mix or what!!? thanks mark

troinvt, my management advice would be the same as with other plans on a trophy bass pond. Mark had a good idea get the book and look under post here for management advice. You asked a mouthful and I gotta run out to deliver some fish.

Mark, how much bigger is the pond? I think you could add a few F1's and they would be fine in Norhtern AR. The bad thing is it would difficult to tell the diff. unless you bought small adults and fin clipped or tagged them.

Maybe slightly off subject, but how legitimate do you guys thing the world record largemouth really was? IMHO, I think it should be disqualified and the next biggest instated. Why? Because it didn't produce the burden of proof current world records have to produce. Namely no photograph whatsoever, and the fish wast taken home and eaten!

I am sure the Texas boys would agree with you. Georgia will keep its record. Just kidding. I think it is to late to take the record away but if you read the story of the catch and what happened the next couple of days I understand the questions. Some people down here claim it was probably larger than 22-4 because of the time lapse until it was weigh.

I actually stocked 75 Florida strain and 25 Northern strain in my pond. Hopefully nature will take its course in my favor.

greg, i stocked 600 bass september 2002 when i got a big rain the put 9 feet of water in about 2 acres. the pond now is about 20 feet deep and 6.5 acres. just raised the spillway and fine tuned the dam, which when full the pond should be 7.5 acres and 25 feet deep. if i buy the little ones, should i pin raise them or just throw them in? and you did say f1's, not florida strain, right? thanks , mark

If you are like most of us, you have an existing pond full of native bass. My answer is to buy and throw in some pure Florida strain. They will breed with each other, producing more pure Florida's, with the natives, producing F1's,... so you end up with what you want, and the potential for more of what you want for a few years.

Nick good point and I agree stocking pure Florida is a good idea. However you will not produce any F1's. This is a cross of a pure Northern and pure Florida. If one parent is a mix of genetics it is not a northern. Not just splitting hairs it does make a diff. However, by stocking Florida bass you can have more of a Florida influence in the gene pool.

Mark yes I said F1's but I meant stocking with small adults not fingelrings. If you can raise some F1's in a cage it may be worth it. Then you can clip them to tell them apart.

triton, i took this same advise from greg and cecil and have been cage raising lmb this summer with great success. (see post: "expensive snack")i purchased 4-6 in bass and placed them in cages the first of july. they are now 10 in, fat and healthy and ready to be released. i lost less than 5% of the fish. these small bass cost less and are easy and fun to raise in cages. i suspect i'll do this each year to add some new and improved genetics to my pond. jb

Jb, I would and maybe others would also like to know a little more info. What kind of cage did you use? ...size dimension, mess size, material used, stocking densitity. What did you fed them, how often, etc. Was it mounted on a dock, did you clean off algae, etc. I have had limited succes raising bass in a cage.

Has anyone had any luck with F1's in the midwest? Specifically, do F1's get any bigger, any faster than the native northern bass, considering the cooler midwest climate? I am in central Missouri and I would like to try the F1's, but I have not yet heard of any success stories.

Many of the questions here have been answered in a previous thread F1 flordia strain
here is the link to that topic.
F1 flordia strain thread

greg, i'll start a new post to discuss my cage raising experience. jb

Grimes, correct me if I am wrong, but in most waters, all that we have is pure native bass. For instance, here in North East Texas, all that we had for years was native bass. Florida bass became popular and we began stocking lakes and ponds with them. So we do have pure natives in ponds that have never seen Floridas introduced.

As a side topic, lakes like lake Fork were managed well and the Florida's interbred with the natives, producing many state record bass. However, now the gene pool is diluted to the point that far fewer records are being set. Introducing more pure Florida's into the mix would help, but that lake will never be as good as it once was because there are no pure Florida's and pure natives to interbreed.

Do you agree?

sort of off topic but still dealing with F1's...would tagging F1's as a fingerling and then introducing them into new pond be reasonable...therefore after they breed you can release all of these fish and save the other's for the supper table...this way your best genetics are kept in the pond? or is it even possible to tag fingerlings?

trinton, I answered this somewhere, but near impossible to tag a fingelring bass. However you can clip a fin to serve as a mark, If it starts growing back clip it again.

Nick, yes you are right if they are true native northern strain bass. I agree that is why TX had several large bass popping up. They were true F1's producded from the Florida and native's getting together. Here in GA DNA studies have shown that the genetics of largemouth bass are a mix. Florida bass have more of an influence even up toward the piedmont of the state than Northern subspecies. So I was thinking TX had this same mix, and guess I was wrong.

Nick,
Actually, Texas Parks and Wildlife stocks Fork annually with pure Florida bass fingerlings. It's shocked every year and age-0 bass are collected for electrophoretic analysis. You are right that a proportion of the fish are "Fx", or back-crosses of various types (F1 x pure F; F1 x F1; FX x F1; etc.). However, a certain percentage is pure Florida, which varies from year to year.

Greg,
You are also right that many of the fish entered into the TPW Sharelunker program are F1's (To be accepted into the program,the fish must weigh more than 14 lbs). However, the most recent data that I reviewed also included at least as many pure Florida's, along with a smattering of Fx's and even a couple of pure Northern's as I recall. I think the take-home message is that Florida genetics along with trophy-oriented harvest regulations are almost a necessity to create the kind of trophy bass fishery most Texans have grown to expect. :rolleyes:

As to the genetic mix of bass in TX compared to GA, it does sound like a similar situation. Warmer water generally = more Florida genes, most pronounced in heated power plant reservoirs.

fishman,
thanks for the information! I preach proper management first. Then worry about genetics. You can have the best genetics in the world but have that bass in an over crowded predator pond and he will not grow. That is some good information to know that Fx and northern bass genetics can reach sizes of that magnitude.

I'll use that information b/c I'm trying to get some all female bass populations started and have a hard time getting female F1's so I may try Fx bass. In the forage heavy environment with low stocking densities I feel the bass should put on more than 2lbs/year.