I suppose if a national shutdown/lock-down/curfew of sorts happens (like in San Fran) because of the Corona-virus are most of you that don't live full time on the property going to spend your time there or at your main house?
For us I suppose it all depends on the severity of restrictions put in place in regard to this rapidly deteriorating corona-virus situation.
There is good and bad to being at both places for us.
Cons: Very tiny kitchen at property.....no washer/dryer.....tiny fridge...very limited closets, spare medical facilities
Pros: Away from populations....quiet...peaceful....fish, deer, hogs to eat, great tight knit neighbors.
My pond is within 100 feet of my house. So I will be staying close to it. How far away is your pond? I wouldn't like that unless its like a weekend getaway thing.
Our nearest neighbor is a mile away.... that is a good thing until the dummies empty the stores of everything and it’s been 4 days and nothing still. Fish and hogs might be on the menu
Someone was boasting on Facebook about finding toilet paper and buying 100 rolls! Not just panic, but incredible selfishness. Like finding hand sanitizer and buying twenty gallons.
We intend to spend more time at our pond place, but would do that anyhow what with the warming weather & return of the CNBG to the shallows. Nice isolated place, good neighbors, nearest is a few hundred yards away. Plenty of fish for protein, but honestly I don't think we face a famine.
Never use hand sanitizers myself. We have a dermal microbiome for a reason and that is to outcompete pathogens, I do wash my hands with water. Be smart and don't panic!
How far away is your pond? I wouldn't like that unless its like a weekend getaway thing.
RS....yes it's a weekend place...72 miles from home...55 miles from work heck I can't retire because the pond/property costs too much...lol plus I'm not ready for pond 24/7...I love chocolate sundaes, but not 7 days a week but it might be a nice place to hunker down during the corona pandemic
I hear on retirement I'm still 20 years away. We just got the message today that their school is canceled for the rest of the year. Life is changing as we knew it. Hopefully it's short lived but it's more serious than some are taking it for sure. It is good idea to use sanitizer right now not just for urself but so it's not spread.
We do field services at small, medium, and large industrial sites in the USA and around the world, and we have to travel by car, airplane, and even boat.
Ohio's Governor holds multiple press conferences every day, and seems to need a new way to disrupt the economy and trample our civil liberties at each and every one.
Now for the part that doesn't need moderated. I am fortunate enough to have my ponds on my home ground.
I work in industrial factories, mainly the one in my home town. All work travel has been suspended and, it seems, that the "atmosphere" revolving around the pandemic is changing every day. I may find myself without a factory to work at should we decide to shut down for a period...
If that happens, I'm going to look at the bright side, take some vacation, and get all the "spring cleaning" items on my pond list done that may otherwise not get done. The pond is a part of my immediate yard., therfore, part of my refuse.
The coronavirus saved our car. We were supposed to be at friend's house for coffee this morning. They called it off a couple days ago because of "social distancing" . This morning a big tree fell across their driveway right where our car would have been parked at that time. It would have hit right in the middle of the roof. Whew!
We are pretty well fixed at the farm. Daughter brought the grandkids out to keep them isolated but not bored. Lots of fish in the cage and game in the fields.
This virus is not a joke, let me say. There are thousands of deaths and tens of thousands of infected here and we have not yet reached the peak. We are almost all forced to stay at home, except those who work in agriculture and food in general. All stores are closed except for groceries. Schools of all grades and universities are closed. Almost all the factories are closed. The economy is collapsing. It is a terrible situation and it is not known how long it will go on like this. You shouldn't underestimate the situation, stay at home with your family and don't meet anyone. If you really have to go and buy food, do it with an appropriate mask and stay at least 6 feet from anyone else. We are running out of critical care beds. People are dying and dying alone because nobody is allowed to approach, not even close relatives. It's so sad... Take care and may the Lord help us all.
I agree the virus is real and we need to be very smart in dealing with it. Avoid crowds, stay home as much as possible, wash those hands all day long. However just for some perspective in the US we have had about 160 deaths from Corona-virus and 22,000 deaths in the US this flu season. Very sad for Italy. I pray that the corona-virus is under control soon. Tell those Spring Breakers in Florida to stop!
Flippo, we have updates on Italy almost daily here in the US, and all I see are proud and strong people. I hope you and your loved ones are ok, and that the tide turns soon. Despite this horrific event, and the toll it's taking there, your country is showing the world how communities can come together for the good of all.
Filippo, so sorry your country has been hit hard. Right now it appears that Italy and Iran are having the worst time. From what I hear, the vast majority of Italian casualties are very old and/or suffering from multiple preexisting health issues.
For US pondmeisters, I'd like to share reason for optimism. Hope this Nobel winner is right! If he is, we should see much better times in a couple of months.
Filippo, I'm sure hope things make a quick turn around. You place has taken a major hit that nobody was ready for. I never been anywhere close to a prepper but I do believe I'm going to stock some essentials from now on. Are thoughts and prayers will be with you. STAY STRONG and keep is updated with everything going on.
From what I'm hearing from friends and co-workers who have family members working in gov't (so not direct info.), the gov't wants to shut things down more than what the status quo is...
We are pretty well fixed at the farm. Daughter brought the grandkids out to keep them isolated but not bored. Lots of fish in the cage and game in the fields.
Originally Posted by Tbar
We are pretty well fixed at the farm. Daughter brought the grandkids out to keep them isolated but not bored. Lots of fish in the cage and game in the fields.
Nice crappie T..... mine seem to be missing due to bass predation....
That's the problem. We face a real issue with the virus, but many people see this as an opportunity to seize power over ordinary Americans. How many temporary measures will prove permanent?
From what I'm hearing from friends and co-workers who have family members working in gov't (so not direct info.), the gov't wants to shut things down more than what the status quo is...At this stage, who knows what that means??
Sunil if they declare martial law I think that would be ridiculous. As of today the worst hit countries are Italy at 3,405 deaths and China at 3,245 deaths. The US around 165 deaths. And from what I read cases are declining in China. So if China has 3,245 deaths and we already have 22,000 deaths from the flu this season...what are we doing? I mean lets say we are as bad as China and Italy combined...that's still not even half the US flu deaths so far this flu season.
Zep you also have to look at what they had to do to stop it also. The death tolls there would still be rising if they didnt take such drastic measures. And yes the flu has killed more but is that a reason not to stop this while we can get ahold of it.
I'm going about, doing just about what I always do, and am not sweating it. But, retirement doesn't take or afford a lot of social interaction.
Been working on a rent house and am now finished. Time to get somebody in that thing.
Wife is a Paralegal and works for a big Dallas Law Firm. She is now working from home. Had to buy her a couple of monitors and hook to her laptop. Without daily social interaction, she says her productivity has probably gone up 50%.
Filippo is setting in a tough place right now, I'm hopping some of the medical science will come along to help them out. From what I understand Italy did shut things down early, similar to what we are doing here and they still are having high death rates. If comparing the size of Italy to the size of our states and comparing early shut down we might be looking at 40 to 50 times more deaths. I sure hope not. We are at the lake house and bunkered down. We are about 10 min drive from the farm right now where we can harvest meat and fish if needed. I am not in a panic but I am trying to be smart with all of this.
TGW, one thing I had read about Italy was that within the past 2-3 years, they had created some kind of agreement with China where a few hundred thousand Chinese were traveling between Northern Italy and China for work.. Silk Road Project or something like that.
Italy was probably subject to massive amounts of infection due to that........maybe .....
"If comparing the size of Italy to the size of our states and comparing early shut down we might be looking at 40 to 50 times more deaths. I sure hope not"
Tracy I am no mathematician, but I cant see how based on population comparison US deaths could be "40 to 50 times more deaths than Italy".
Italy has just over 60 million people and the United States about 327 million people.
Besides Italy having a higher percentage of elderly, don't those population figures show population wise the US is 5-6 times larger than Italy?
So how and why would the US death rates be "40 to 50 times worse" than Italy?
At 5 times worse than Italy (3500 thus far), our death rate would be around 20,000 which is around the typical flu deaths this time of the year.
ZEP I was not looking at population of Italy but more at the size of the country and comparing it to the size of our states. So my math could be way off. I hope you are right. I was looking at 3,500 deaths in Italy and then multiplying that by 40 to 50 states. Thanks for the math
Zep you also have to look at what they had to do to stop it also. The death tolls there would still be rising if they didnt take such drastic measures. And yes the flu has killed more but is that a reason not to stop this while we can get ahold of it.
I am not really disagreeing with you RS, but if the flu kills about the same or more than the corona-virus why don't we destroy the economy every year to prevent all those flu deaths?
"CDC estimates that the burden of illness during the 2018–2019 season included an estimated 35.5 million people getting sick with influenza, 16.5 million people going to a health care provider for their illness, 490,600 hospitalizations, and 34,200 deaths from influenza (Table 1).Jan 8, 2020"
US Flu Deaths last flu season: 34,200 Worldwide Corona deaths thus far: 10,600
TGW, one thing I had read about Italy was that within the past 2-3 years, they had created some kind of agreement with China where a few hundred thousand Chinese were traveling between Northern Italy and China for work.. Silk Road Project or something like that.
Italy was probably subject to massive amounts of infection due to that........maybe .....
Sad all around.
Sunil, I understood the same with the Chinese travel in Italy. Sad for sure.
Zep, I think this shut down is mostly about keeping hospitalization down. People will absolutely freek out when the call comes out that all hospital beds are taken for critical care.
I think what people is missing is this has only began here. The flu has been around for a long time. One problem is nobody seems to really know much about it . I have read where its up to 20 times more contagious than the reg flu. It also has long term effects like 30% loss of lungs capacity. And if everyone would get the flu shot maybe we could get those numbers down as well. My wife didn't believe in them for years. The insurance companys don't want to pay for anything they don't have to. They pay for the flu shot so that right there means something. If it don't help keep there cost down they would not offer to pay for it. Everyone has to chose their own path thou. I want to be around and healthy for my kids and grandkids (on the way). Its kinda like most people don't eat right or get enough activity to maintain a healthy body. Now these are just my opinions.
I have talked to three different DR buddies and all three separately said the same thing. This is NOT the flu. This is MUCH worse than the flu. They said numbers are changing rapidly so very fluid. Current thinking is if one person contracts the flu they infect one other. If one person contracts corona they infect 3 ot 5 others. Current CDC estimates are between 160 million and 214 million US residents WILL catch corona. They are HOPING death rate will be much lower than initial estimates - HOPING for 1.4%. Run those numbers... 180 million folks times 1.4% = 2.5 million dead (low # of infected and low kill rate). Oh yeah, there are currently 950,000 hospital beds in the US. Those will fill up quick which = a higher death rate.
I was skeptical at first, but after talking to those guys that changed. I am still hoping maybe this hyped up and the outcome will just be something like the flu. There are currently friends of friends in ICU already in my town. A couple folks on the back end of it and they went through hell and they aren't the sickly kind of people.
Zep, I think this shut down is mostly about keeping hospitalization down. People will absolutely freek out when the call comes out that all hospital beds are taken for critical care.
Tracy I agree...and I fully support shutting down most of the social gatherings like sporting events, car races, concert, movie theaters, schools, etc....
Also support strong encouragement for people to wash hands many times a day.
I support asking people to keep a safe distance when possible.....but as far as destroying the economy over something that thus far looks to kill less or even if it is same as flu....I dunno...I just don't think people fully realize the pain and "freak out" we will see with a collapsed economy.
As for as hospital over-load...MOST people that contract corona-virus are not and do not need to be hospitalized.
Many, many people that contract corona-virus never even know they have it....they just think it's the flu.
There seems to be too much "OMG I've got the corona-virus" panic.
If you get it....for most people it's about like the flu....you don't go to the hospital....you stay at home and that's it.
For some just like with the flu it is more dangerous.
I think the hospital over-load factor is partly caused my the media 24/7 panic....so when someone gets it....they panic and run to the hospital.....when in reality most people with corona-virus don't need a hospital.
Why isn't the media balancing their scare tactics with informing the public that if you get it you most likely will NOT NEED to go to a hospital.
We just need some logic and balance....instead of sensationalizing and panic from the media.
This virus has killed 220 people in the US with a population of 327 million people.
In my opinion we need to take it seriously, but not destroy our economy.
Current CDC estimates are between 160 million and 214 million US residents WILL catch corona. They are HOPING death rate will be much lower than initial estimates - HOPING for 1.4%. Run those numbers... 180 million folks times 1.4% = 2.5 million dead (low # of infected and low kill rate). Oh yeah, there are currently 950,000 hospital beds in the US. Those will fill up quick which = a higher death rate.
re: 2.5 million US deaths from corona-virus
Then why is China with a population what 5 or 6 times larger than the US and with much less advanced and widespread medical profession NOT seeing those kind of death rates and the virus is in decline there?
Current CDC estimates are between 160 million and 214 million US residents WILL catch corona. They are HOPING death rate will be much lower than initial estimates - HOPING for 1.4%. Run those numbers... 180 million folks times 1.4% = 2.5 million dead (low # of infected and low kill rate). Oh yeah, there are currently 950,000 hospital beds in the US. Those will fill up quick which = a higher death rate.
re: 2.5 million US deaths from corona-virus
Then why is China with a population what 5 or 6 times larger than the US and with much less advanced and widespread medical profession seeing those kind of death rates and the virus is in decline there?
One, What information from China would you bet your life on?? They have a very clear motive to paint the rosiest picture they can. Why is Italy, a country with 4% the population of CHY-NAH, approaching half the cases and more deaths??
Two, China doesn't have things like Panama City beach, etc going on.
Unless something's changed, there is no cure for virus'. Bacterial infections yes, viral infections no. Meds are prescribed to control signs and symptoms.
wbuffetjr...even if the figures from China were ten times worse than they report, it would be about like annual flu deaths in US.
We are 5-6 times more population than Italy and it still would not be anywhere near 2.5 million deaths...it would be around 21,000 or less than annual US flu deaths. Plus Italy has one of the highest elderly populations in Europe.
China may not have Panama Beach, but tens of millions live in very close quarters and many live in squalor.
Again.. it is a very serious situation...yes corona is more contagious than flu....
But with the flu and corona the vast majority do not require hospitalization and do not die from it.
I just think we need to take a lot of precaution, but not shut down the economy.
Unless something's changed, there is no cure for virus'. Bacterial infections yes, viral infections no. Meds are prescribed to control signs and symptoms.
Guys very glad at the way each of you have handled this discussion.
No politics - no blaming - except China where it started.
Lots of unknowns , lots of suffering and much heroism by every day people especially in the medical community. Pray for the suffering and those on the front line of this. They are working in extreme squalor with not enough tools and low supplies of necessary protective equipment. Like asking a soldier to go to war with little ammunition.
Just as a reference point for myself, I have yet to communicate with anyone who actually knows someone directly who has tested positive for this virus.
But again, I'm at a loss to know what is factual and what is not.
Unless something's changed, there is no cure for virus'. Bacterial infections yes, viral infections no. Meds are prescribed to control signs and symptoms.
Mark, I agree with you 100%. Being asymptomatic doesn't make it go away though. I may be wrong, but you can still infect others without having personal S&S. The virus still runs it's course.
Guys, please correct me if I'm wrong. Scientific data please.
Being asymptomatic doesn't make it go away though. I may be wrong, but you can still infect others without having personal S&S. The virus still runs it's course.
Gotcha Al...makes sense to me...
Hey one question...it may be a dumb question....it would be nearly impossible to die or be hospitalized if a person was "asymptomatic" correct?
The retired super intended of are school system here got it. I pray this is just "just the flu". I'm not knocking anyone for taking it lightly. I myself was at first I still see some funny a$$ memes bout it. The one thing i do know that I'm 100% sure of is. I WANT NOTHING TO DO WITH CORONA. She sounds like one evil bi+ch.
I'm totally cutting back on unnecessary spending. Not feeding very much if at all, not renewing any subscriptions, cutting back on utility usage, etc. Retired and depending on 401(k) is stressful.
I'm totally cutting back on unnecessary spending. Not feeding very much if at all, not renewing any subscriptions, cutting back on utility usage, etc. Retired and depending on 401(k) is stressful.
Being asymptomatic doesn't make it go away though. I may be wrong, but you can still infect others without having personal S&S. The virus still runs it's course.
Gotcha Al...makes sense to me...
Hey one question...it may be a dumb question....it would be nearly impossible to die or be hospitalized if a person was "asymptomatic" correct?
Mark, there are no dumb questions right now. Valid information needs to be searched out and shared. As to your question, I wouldn't know, but I would think you're correct.
My better half, who was a Parkland Hosp SICU nurse for over 20 years, had to deal with isolated incidents with other extremely contagious diseases with similar patient respiratory issues when she was there. Pt isolation, full medical haz mat suits for staff, etc., etc., and she said it's a horrible way to die. It's extremely stressful for the hospital staff as well. Hospital nutritional staff, bed control, cleanup services, all have their daily routines affected by contagious diseases. 10 pts with gunshot wounds are far easier for hospital staff to manage than a single contagious pt.
Having said all that, we're doing what's recommended, and are attempting to adjust to the new normal. It may be here for a while.
I wont be surprised if we (USA) goes on total lockdown. That's everything besides hospitals, pharmacies and grocery stores. Now I could be wrong but if I was a betting man I'd put a 1000 on it.
My better half, who was a Parkland Hosp SICU nurse for over 20 years
Al...can you ask her a question?
From what I understand the vast majority of corona-virus patients never have to be hospitalized or die, but the ones where it is more serious it usually involves respiratory issues.
So if I can get a doctor to write me an RX for a ZPak and just keep it at home....then if I contract the Corona-virus and I started having respiratory issues I could start my ZPak and not have to go to a crowded doctor's office and/or crowded ER when I am in a contagious condition?
Wouldn't it be helpful to have a "ZPak in waiting" so at the first sign of corona effecting respiratory problems I could start my ZPak?
I source my intel from the CDC allowing me to balance it with mainstream media - I personally find it unwise to discount professional advise from those dedicated to creating science and keeping humans alive, you know, Epidemiologists, et al. I read there may be an "easing" in social distancing, etc. by mid to late May...
In other news - I heard reports Covid positive otters and cormorants are amassing at TX borders are [most likely] NOT accurate, so there's a beam of sunlight.
I wont be surprised if we (USA) goes on total lockdown. That's everything besides hospitals, pharmacies and grocery stores. Now I could be wrong but if I was a betting man I'd put a 1000 on it.
The Governor of Pennsylvania yesterday ordered a "total lock-down"....but of course there are always exemptions. I looked at the PDF of the PA exempt business types and it includes my type of business. Hospitals, Pharmacies, supply trucking companies, and grocery stores need plumbers, electricians, mechanics, HVAC, and many other support type of business that keep them operating.
I source my intel from the CDC allowing me to balance it with mainstream media - I personally find it unwise to discount professional advise from those dedicated to creating science and keeping humans alive, you know, Epidemiologists, et al. I read there may be an "easing" in social distancing, etc. by mid to late May...
I hope and pray late April and May bring a decline and I think it will happen around that time.
I agree with listening to professionals, and I usually do....but even the experts many times disagree.
Plus doctors don't spend millions and millions on malpractice because they don't make errors.
I just heard second hand news that the PA National Guard has been activated and guardsman were told to be prepared to deploy for (30) days.
Come Monday, once the Army and the National Guard was 'in place,' they would announce closure for ALL business, and in-home lock down. Supposedly, rioting and looting is expected, and they wanted 'authority' in place to handle things...which sounds like Marshall law.
Wow...NBA, NCAA tourney just cancelled 9 days ago and now they're anticipating riots/looting? I'm maintaining hope we don't go "baboon" that quickly - it's been such a short time and sounds as though everything aside from hand sanitizer and toilet paper is readily available at stores or online. CDC predicts mid to late May until policies should be "eased"...if we collectively go to pot that quickly, hard to imagine what things will emerge in 6-8 weeks.
Do you feel it getting edgy out there? What's your gut feeling? Over-reaction?
I get your degree of puzzlement, Zep, and in many ways share it. S Korea seems to be on top of things better than anywhere, the difference appears they had abundant testing available and positive results were quarantined? Tests are a resource still largely unavailable here in Lincoln, NE - which is baffling to me considering we [as a Nation] saw this thing coming months ago.
Tj, to answer ya no I dont feel edgy. I feel what some people dont realize is we dont have a supply problem what we have is a demand problem. The supply is still there. Might take awhile to relish the toilet paper n lysol. But if everyone would just calm down and stay home and just do what you have to. If people would just do this for a few weeks hopefully this craziness will go away. Who really knows it might take longer. But I feel that until most of us dont get on board it will spread like a wildfire.
... Ummm the last time the doctor gave me a ZPak it was for upper respiratory issues and it seemed to work well.
From what I understand with Corona, it is not Corona that is in the lungs, but that it leads to also having the upper respiratory issues.
That's correct. The respiratory issues with COVID-19 are are caused by a virus. Azithromycin is kinda sorta a ramped up Amoxicillin, and both are for upper body bacterial infections.
Hi guys as some of you know our pond's in Boone County but I live and work in Los Angeles. We're on shelter-in-place. I shut down my lab and sent my staff home for two months (with pay). Stay safe out there, stay clean, and stay home if you can, please.
Hi guys as some of you know our pond's in Boone County but I live and work in Los Angeles. We're on shelter-in-place. I shut down my lab and sent my staff home for two months (with pay). Stay safe out there, stay clean, and stay home if you can, please.
10-4 bro...be safe, wish you were in Boone county...grateful for your efforts to take care of your employees...you're a model - hunker down and ping me for fishery goals this season...you're a fellow SMB addict, right?
That's correct. The respiratory issues with COVID-19 are are caused by a virus. Azithromycin is kinda sorta a ramped up Amoxicillin, and both are for upper body bacterial infections.
Al take a look at this story....it's interesting.
"A new study whose results were published in the International Journal of Antimicrobial Agents has found early evidence that the combination of hydroxychloroquine, a popular anti-malaria drug known under the trade name Plaqenuil, and antibiotic azithromycin (aka Zithromax or Azithrocin) could be especially effective in treating the COVID-19 coronavirus and reducing the duration of the virus in patients"
riots/looting? I'm maintaining hope we don't go "baboon" that quickly
TJ 3 weeks ago I bought some shotgun shells on AmmoToGo.com, today I tried to buy more. Every single 12 gauge shell they sell was SOLD OUT.
Originally Posted by teehjaeh57
CDC predicts mid to late May until policies should be "eased"...if we collectively go to pot that quickly, hard to imagine what things will emerge in 6-8 weeks. Do you feel it getting edgy out there? What's your gut feeling? Over-reaction?
I was feeling pretty optimistic until I read this doom and gloom story today....I don't buy it....but we must prepare....but if it blows up that big....things could very rough.....very rough...not so much from the virus but from economic issues.
I’m going to trust science and trust humanity. If for no other reason than the positive intention aspect of it. I’m a firm believer that will impact our direction - but yes, important to be prepared. I’m grateful I live in the Midwest during these times.
wbuffetjr...even if the figures from China were ten times worse than they report, it would be about like annual flu deaths in US.
We are 5-6 times more population than Italy and it still would not be anywhere near 2.5 million deaths...it would be around 21,000 or less than annual US flu deaths. Plus Italy has one of the highest elderly populations in Europe.
China may not have Panama Beach, but tens of millions live in very close quarters and many live in squalor.
Again.. it is a very serious situation...yes corona is more contagious than flu....
But with the flu and corona the vast majority do not require hospitalization and do not die from it.
I just think we need to take a lot of precaution, but not shut down the economy.
Zep - trust me I do not want to shut down the economy. We are doing our second round of lay offs today. My wife and I own a restaurant so you can imagine how directly we are impacted.
Having said that...
China is more prepared for something like this than the US or Europe. Yes they may live in squalor, but they are veterans when it comes to this kind of stuff. The infectious disease shows up and out come the masks, etc.
You said "We are 5-6 times more population than Italy and it still would not be anywhere near 2.5 million deaths...it would be around 21,000 or less than annual US flu deaths." I would say Italy is basically only 4 weeks into this thing. I also read Italy has 3.2 hospital beds per 1,000 people. The US has 2.8 beds per 1,000. I think it will take much less than we realize to over run the health system and that's when things will start to get really bad.
They have said China's possible first patient was possibly in November. Unfortunately, I think things are going to get much worse before they get better. Look at Spain - they have 4% of China's population and they are fast approaching 50% of the deaths in China. Either China is lying or they are better at dealing with this than the rest of the world.
More and more cities are going into lockdown here in the USA. Better to do it now rather than later I think. Zep, it's tough not to worry about how our economy is going to handle it. My financial guy has called me three or four times in the last 10 days suggesting to me to buy and buy more stock. It's a once in a generation opportunity he says. Most every time he calls the market will drop again. Heck, it's hard for me not to sell, sell, sell. But I have faith that the USA economy will work it all out, so plans are to stay the course. Keep the faith
My financial guy has called me three or four times in the last 10 days suggesting to me to buy and buy more stock. It's a once in a generation opportunity he says. Most every time he calls the market will drop again. Heck, it's hard for me not to sell, sell, sell. Keep the faith
Tracy...I hear ya. Alaska Airlines is a stock I watch. It had been near $70 a share in December. So when I saw it in the mid-thirties last week I jumped in...but got scared the next day and jumped out....glad I did because now it's at $23.56. Baron Rothschild an 18th-century British nobleman and member of the Rothschild banking family, is credited with saying something like "the time to buy is when there's blood in the streets". But good grief that takes guts. The Oct 11, 2007...crash the worst since the great depression...everybody freaked and sold....but if they had held....the market was back to basically the same level within 18 months. Hard to tell how and when this Corona Crash will end and play out.
Zep - trust me I do not want to shut down the economy. We are doing our second round of lay offs today. My wife and I own a restaurant so you can imagine how directly we are impacted.
Sorry to hear that wbuffetjr....I know it is really bad for restaurants. In Dallas they are trying to be creative with take-out and actually selling eggs and stuff....I am afraid if this lasts very long...most of them won't make enough to weather this storm. The governor is even allowing them to deliver alcohol drinks if someone orders food.
Originally Posted by wbuffetjr
Having said that... I would say Italy is basically only 4 weeks into this thing. I also read Italy has 3.2 hospital beds per 1,000 people. The US has 2.8 beds per 1,000. I think it will take much less than we realize to over run the health system and that's when things will start to get really bad.
It is interesting that "99% of Those Who Died From Virus Had Other Illness", Italy Says. I think Italy has the highest aged population in Europe.
From The Weather Channel Android App: https://weather.com/news/trending/v...thing-this-radar-caught?pl=pl-the-latest This has nothing to do with CORONA but it is interesting. I know alot of you fellas live in Texas so you might have already heard about this before. Up here in kansas we dont see many bats. We have them come out at night a few times a year but never see huge masses of them anywhere.
That's correct. The respiratory issues with COVID-19 are are caused by a virus. Azithromycin is kinda sorta a ramped up Amoxicillin, and both are for upper body bacterial infections.
Al take a look at this story....it's interesting.
"A new study whose results were published in the International Journal of Antimicrobial Agents has found early evidence that the combination of hydroxychloroquine, a popular anti-malaria drug known under the trade name Plaqenuil, and antibiotic azithromycin (aka Zithromax or Azithrocin) could be especially effective in treating the COVID-19 coronavirus and reducing the duration of the virus in patients"
Yes, I've seen that. Various labs are trying different angles at this. Let's hope one is shown to work after proper testing. Inadequate testing can result in drugs like thalidomide, and we don't want that.
At this point, I'm out of my comfort zone. Maybe RAH will know more about the testing process.
"Dr. Paul Auwaerter, the Clinical Director for the Division of Infectious Diseases at Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine echoes this finding, “If you have a COVID-19 patient in your household, your risk of developing the infection is about 10%….If you were casually exposed to the virus in the workplace your chance of infection is about 0.5%”. According to Dr. Auwaerter, these transmission rates are very similar to the seasonal flu. There isn’t a single death reported below the age of 10 in the world and most children who test positive don’t show symptoms. 93% of people who think they are positive aren’t and 95% of people who are tested aren’t positive.1% of cases will be severe. Globally, 80–85% of all cases are mild. These will not require a hospital visit and home-based treatment/ no treatment is effective"
It occurred to me that this "leveling the curve," delaying the full onset of the virus on our populace, also gains time for folk who would get sick and need ameliorative drugs and vaccines, not yet available.
"Dr. Paul Auwaerter, the Clinical Director for the Division of Infectious Diseases at Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine echoes this finding, “If you have a COVID-19 patient in your household, your risk of developing the infection is about 10%….If you were casually exposed to the virus in the workplace your chance of infection is about 0.5%”. According to Dr. Auwaerter, these transmission rates are very similar to the seasonal flu. There isn’t a single death reported below the age of 10 in the world and most children who test positive don’t show symptoms. 93% of people who think they are positive aren’t and 95% of people who are tested aren’t positive.1% of cases will be severe. Globally, 80–85% of all cases are mild. These will not require a hospital visit and home-based treatment/ no treatment is effective"
I agree Zep. At this point there is so much conflicting information out there it makes it difficult to be correctly informed.
I've been battling Lymes on and off since August '15. The last regimen of medications I was on was 500mg of Azithromycin and 400mg of Chloroquine daily for several months back in 2019.
So that combo has been around for a while as some kind of knock-out punch.
I see a few states have gone for the (30) day in-home plan.
Zep I'm sorry but you don't know what you're talking about. I understand you, because even up to a month ago I said more or less the same things, but the reality is, unfortunately, very different. It is not an influence. Not only the elderly die (and even if it were, it wouldn't seem good news to me anyway); it seems only because they are the first to die, being weaker and often already sick, but now young and healthy are also dying. We are running out of beds in intensive care and building brand new dedicated structures everywhere. Doctors and nurses are getting infected. Even asymptomatics are contagious and many of those who heal still have permanent lung damage. The transmissibility is much greater than the flu, not to mention that there is no vaccine for covid and it is a "new" and more lethal virus. The world would not have been blocked if it were less of an influence.This is a real confirmed and official pandemic. Here we've been in for two months. The first case was discovered a month ago. Yesterday evening the prime minister decreed the almost total lockdown of all non-fundamental activities, because despite the blockade a little less drastic of 10 days ago there were no drops in the number of infections, but both the infected and the dead increased of all ages. 6 people I know have tested positive. 2 have already died without being able to even greet their loved ones and without a funeral (78, 59), 3 are in intensive care and 1 is asymptomatic in quarantine at home. I don't want to teach anyone anything, but if you don't trust me, read the official and reliable sources globally. Stay home. For you, for your loved ones, for doctors and nurses, for everyone.
ItalyBass....I will be the first to say...like you...I am not a doctor or a "scientist"....so you are correct in that "I" don't know what I am talking about, but I beg to differ with you that my sources "don't know what they are talking about". Just yesterday a source was Dr. Paul Auwaerter the Clinical Director for the Division for Infectious Diseases at John Hopkins University School of Medicine. https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/profiles/results/directory/profile/0000525/paul-auwaerter
I am very sorry about the tragic situation in Italy. I sincerely hope the Italian people see an improvement soon and the infection and mortality rates begin their decline as we have seen in China, South Korea, Taiwan..etc.. Be safe and God Bless.
Italybass I cant tell you how sorry we all feel for you guys. It is hard to understand it til it starts hitting home. The superintendent I wrote bout a fews days ago has now passed away. Are little town of Paris kansas (under 10,000). We have not been told to go on lockdown per government yet. Pretty much everyone I know has quarantined themselves. Theres a preacher in a couple towns over that has it. Those were out in about in the public just days prior so it hard telling how many will come out of this madness. I'm not 2 big on praying myself (got 2 many questions) but that's a whole different topic. But I have said a few here lately. But now seems like the the best time to maybe say a couple. Stay safe out there please.
Gov Edwards of Louisiana has now asked for voluntary lockdown and said La now has the fastest growing rate per capita of this disease over anywhere else the world.
I have to say it again. Either China is fabricating their Corona data or they are just better at this stuff than the rest of the world. Italy has ~4% of Chinas population and will likely have 2x the deaths as of today. The Italians are not living in "squalor" or near as densely populated as the Chinese. Spain has ~3% of Chinas population, similar living conditions to Italy, and quickly approaching the same number of deaths as China. Thank God our death rate in US is currently tracking so low. Hopefully it stays low. There is a lag between them and us though since they surged first.
My pond is in the front yard. I can throw a rock in it from the porch.
We are already in self-quarantine. Daughter had class two weeks ago with some kids that had been to Clearwater for spring break. Three of those tested positive last week. Daughter and wife were tested yesterday. Results should be in tomorrow.
We are well-provisioned, and taking things in stride. I can do my job from here. I hauled some computer gear home from the office on Saturday and am set up ready for business as usual.
Good luck Augie! Prayers sent for negative tests. Consider yourself lucky to be able to work from home.
May I suggest this to everyone. Shop local as much as you can. Order take out from some of the small restaurants around you. Lots here are doing curbside so you do not even have to walk inside. There are going to be small businesses around you that are not going to survive this.
Unless something's changed, there is no cure for virus'. Bacterial infections yes, viral infections no. Meds are prescribed to control signs and symptoms.
That is simply not true.
There are many effective treatments for viral infections, but none of them are under patent protection.
Unless something's changed, there is no cure for virus'. Bacterial infections yes, viral infections no. Meds are prescribed to control signs and symptoms.
That is simply not true.
There are many effective treatments for viral infections, but none of them are under patent protection.
Augie, first thanks for posting. Early in this thread I invited all to correct any of my mis-statements, and I was hoping someone with first hand knowledge would catch any errors.
So, I have questions for you. Are the virus treatments class related, or are there treatments specific to certain virus'? Also, are there any drugs that have shown to be effective on both virus and bacterial infections?
Could you also explain the patent protection deal?
Best thing I ever got for a coronavirus was tiny clear green pills, a very strong steroid, maybe only one per day. By day's end I felt great with no bothersome symptoms. He prescribed four days only, saying, if after four days you feel like crap, it is probably bacterial and you'll need immediate medical attention. I never saw those beautiful gems again...wondering just what they were.
The effect was a hundred times better than those nasty little prednisone pills, which also gave me a weird feeling. And, i before e, except after c, doesn't hold true if after w.
Good luck Augie! Prayers sent for negative tests. Consider yourself lucky to be able to work from home.
Thank you. Results just in. Wife and daughter both negative.
Yes, I'm blessed to have fallen into a good career.
Working from home for now. I am on-call for the health system. In the event things get really bad they will need help in the hospital. Patients have to be fed, laundry has to be washed, garbage taken out, etc. If the call comes I will go and do what is asked of me.
Augie, first thanks for posting. Early in this thread I invited all to correct any of my mis-statements, and I was hoping someone with first hand knowledge would catch any errors.
So, I have questions for you. Are the virus treatments class related, or are there treatments specific to certain virus'? Also, are there any drugs that have shown to be effective on both virus and bacterial infections?
Could you also explain the patent protection deal?
Thanks again.
At risk of getting too far off into the weeds of political corruption/crony capitalism/etc. I will simply say that if there is no patent there is no profit to be made. If there is no profit to be made there is no incentive for production. Big Pharma is not your friend. The FDA is not your friend. That's as far as I'll go on that topic. I don't really want to be kicked off the forum.
There are many treatments/preventative measures for viral infection that have been used since ancient times. Anyone that's old enough to remember when Gramma had a milk cow knows that she always put a buffalo nickel or two in the milk jug to keep the milk "fresh". The Romans knew that using silver tableware would keep you from getting sick. Colloidal silver solution is available commercially, or can be manufactured at home with the right equipment, and is extremely effective against both viral and bacterial infection. Vitamin C infusions are very effective - they are being used against COVID19 in Asia right now. Various plant oils are also proven effective against viral infection - clove, bergamot, eucalyptus, red thyme, and tea tree to name a few. Traditional Chinese Medicine (TCM) remedies have been evaluated and found effective in modern clinical trials.
As far as the various use cases/delivery methods/efficacy against this vs. that... it would be necessary to link every clinical trial/research study/etc. that is available on the subject. I'm not a licensed physician, so would be on thin ice legally if I were to recommend a treatment protocol to anyone for anything. That said, the information is out there, and so far has not been suppressed by the google machine.
I will recommend to anyone that may be skeptical of the modern western allopathic medical system - find a Chinese doctor who went to med school in the US, AND is trained in TCM.
Dr. Simon Yu in St. Louis is one such physician. I would probably not be here now if I hadn't found him. http://www.preventionandhealing.com
Good luck Augie! Prayers sent for negative tests. Consider yourself lucky to be able to work from home.
Thank you. Results just in. Wife and daughter both negative.
Yes, I'm blessed to have fallen into a good career.
Working from home for now. I am on-call for the health system. In the event things get really bad they will need help in the hospital. Patients have to be fed, laundry has to be washed, garbage taken out, etc. If the call comes I will go and do what is asked of me.
Good deal. That has to be a great relief.
Hospital ancillary staff are the hero's patients rarely see.
Augie, first thanks for posting. Early in this thread I invited all to correct any of my mis-statements, and I was hoping someone with first hand knowledge would catch any errors.
So, I have questions for you. Are the virus treatments class related, or are there treatments specific to certain virus'? Also, are there any drugs that have shown to be effective on both virus and bacterial infections?
Could you also explain the patent protection deal?
Thanks again.
At risk of getting too far off into the weeds of political corruption/crony capitalism/etc. I will simply say that if there is no patent there is no profit to be made. If there is no profit to be made there is no incentive for production. Big Pharma is not your friend. The FDA is not your friend. That's as far as I'll go on that topic. I don't really want to be kicked off the forum.
There are many treatments/preventative measures for viral infection that have been used since ancient times. Anyone that's old enough to remember when Gramma had a milk cow knows that she always put a buffalo nickel or two in the milk jug to keep the milk "fresh". The Romans knew that using silver tableware would keep you from getting sick. Colloidal silver solution is available commercially, or can be manufactured at home with the right equipment, and is extremely effective against both viral and bacterial infection. Vitamin C infusions are very effective - they are being used against COVID19 in Asia right now. Various plant oils are also proven effective against viral infection - clove, bergamot, eucalyptus, red thyme, and tea tree to name a few. Traditional Chinese Medicine (TCM) remedies have been evaluated and found effective in modern clinical trials.
As far as the various use cases/delivery methods/efficacy against this vs. that... it would be necessary to link every clinical trial/research study/etc. that is available on the subject. I'm not a licensed physician, so would be on thin ice legally if I were to recommend a treatment protocol to anyone for anything. That said, the information is out there, and so far has not been suppressed by the google machine.
I will recommend to anyone that may be skeptical of the modern western allopathic medical system - find a Chinese doctor who went to med school in the US, AND is trained in TCM.
Dr. Simon Yu in St. Louis is one such physician. I would probably not be here now if I hadn't found him. http://www.preventionandhealing.com
Everyone in my household uses colloidal silver daily. Everyone in my household supplements with essential oils daily. We 100% certainly have been exposed. None of us are sick.
If any of us do test positive for COVID19 we will high-tail it to Dr. Yu's office in St. Louis for IV infusion of vitamin C.
The above statements should be taken with a grain of salt.
Or, in PBF lingo - "Will this work for me?" "It depends."
Humans are very superstitious which is why scientists have to be trained to ignore their biases and make decisions based on evidence. Science is a fairly recent development for humans and a large part of why we have developed technologically in such a short period of time. It is also why we live longer and have fewer things that kill us off giving us the freedom to believe all manner of things without natural selection taking us out:)
Hey guys, the moderators have been notified that forum members are uncomfortable with the turn of this thread. What started out as "where I should stay" thread turned into a medical thread based on what we know, what we don't know, and what we think we know, and I'm as guilty as anyone. The best way to handle this, and the way we are going to handle this, is to lay off any further medicine, treatments, or possible treatments from this point forward. We all read the news and know what's being tested, so anything else at this point is conjecture anyway. Hopefully, we'll all have one correct answer soon.
The thread will stay open as long as we all play by the rules.
Gov Edwards of Louisiana has now asked for voluntary lockdown and said La now has the fastest growing rate per capita of this disease over anywhere else the world.
My daughter is a nurse in NOLA - she knew a bout 10 days ago LA would spike - can you say Mardi Gras . She says her hospital has 300+ cases.
This is definitely un-chartered waters we are wading thru right now, everybody has their theories about the stuff, bottom line is I wish for all my friends on this forum, and everywhere else to hunker down and make the best of it, and come out the other side stronger then ever, with all their fishing spots and gear in top notch condition, along with their health, if anything it does remind us of higher powers that are in charge, and I'm not talking about the politicians, and in my case it reminds me of what life is about,, taking a kid or grandkid out with a worm and a bobber and enjoy them as much as you can when you can,, as somebody said before,, we ain't gonna get out of this alive,, enjoy it while we can. We all have that friend that left this world way too early that is not afforded this same luxury. Enjoy the time we have and get ready to fish on Brothers and Sisters!
Sunil, I don't have family or friends with it at this time. But from what I understand we could be looking at 40 to 70% of the USA will get it in the next 18 to 24 months. I expect to be isolated (self imposed) as much as possible for the next 8 weeks. I don't like that idea but it sure is looking that way. It's just that I am 67 and am not in tip top shape. I am finding it's not so easy to stay self isolated since I have to go out for groceries. I did do an online grocery order and got about 50% of what I asked for. So looks like I will have to venture out for some of the necessities. As far as ponds go, this may be the first spring (in 5 yr's) I have not added anything other than MVP to my pond.
My daughter has a bug & is in isolation at home. Fortunately, her C19 test came back negative.
We're gonna see a LOT more infections now, mostly because testing is ramping up. Tests used to take days and gave too many false positive results back when the CDC ran things. Then private enterprise entered the fray, and quickly developed a test that yields results in 8 hours. Within the last few days, new tests are on scene that take only 30 to 45 minutes.
Here in western PA, from a nurse that I know, she says that much of the tension in the hospitals is regarding the medical staff NOT having proper medical PPE to use during this time of crisis.
The hospitals here are not overflowing and still have much headroom for more critical care.
Here in south east kansas we are doing pretty good. There are a small handful of cases in surrounding counties. We was one of the 1st areas to close schools so I'm sure that helped some at least. Most businesses are still open for the most part but being careful also. Restaurants are doing curbside services and that's bout it. Hope everyone is staying safe n happy.
We have or maybe had a cruise scheduled for September. Fly from DFW to Canada, catch a ship and head North to Alaska. Have fishing reservations there. Then cruise back and fly home. I’m betting it gets cancelled. If not, we will most likely eat the cost and stay home.
Hi RS, thank you for your interest. So far it's okay for me and my family, but people keep getting infected and dying and it's so sad. The only positive thing is that (it seems) it is reaching its peak and it would be very nice because it would mean finally having a hope to get out of it, albeit far. I see from the news that unfortunately it is also hitting you hard in the USA. How are you all doing there? I hope you are all well, you and your loved ones. A prayer for all of us. I need to think that all this may end soon. Stay safe. Stay home.
Friends call me Rusto. So far so good around my house. There has been cases pop up here and there around this part of kansas. Nobody that leaves in Parsons yet. One worker at nursing home in town came down with it and lives a couple counties over. Very sad deal for everyone.
A cousin of mine in Wisconsin has it. He failed to practice proper social distancing. It's probably not going to kill him, but he's been very unhappy for the past couple weeks.
Sunil my company is down 50%.....first layoffs in the history of company. Heard from our banker today and she said the emergency corona small business loans are a no-brainer. The banker stated that if you use the loan money for payroll some or all of it is likely to be forgiven...and any payback would be at an extremely low rate. We will look into it further, but will probably take the SBA loan so we can preserve some cash reserves for the funds needed to start back up when this panic is over.
A former employee had Corona. She was not hospitalized...had high temperature and diarrhea. She stayed in a separate bedroom from her husband and he would leave her food at the bedroom door. I just spoke with her and she is doing much better. She said it was basically like a bad case of the flu. She said they want to retest her next week. Her sister in Alabama also got it and is older and had a much rougher go. The link below is a news interview with her sister.
The Dean just asked for volunteer scientists to assist with the Covid19 research effort. I volunteered. I run a cancer immunology program but we're going to retool and go back to work with a viral immunology program. We won't be handling infectious virus so our greatest concern is for infection from the other people in the lab. We'll do two shifts to space people out as much as possible.
It's just that our customers are not doing our type of work. We work for large industrial sites like Power Plants, Refineries, Steel Mills, Chemical Plants, etc.
Some of our customers are still doing our type of work, but it's way, way reduced.
We'll survive of course, but it's a real kick in the stones.
Oh believe me I do know most companies are taking a hit from this. Maybe not charmin lol. Which I still dont understand. I will use my wifes t-shirt before I run out of food. We have took a hit at my work also. Also my wife does daycare. A few of the parents are teachers. They dont need daycare anymore when they dont work. And dont get me started on my 401k. But if this is what it takes to save just 1 of my family members I am more than happy to go thur it. If we all do our part hopefully we will never know how many lives have been saved. I wasn't alive for it but like if you look back at like smallpox it killed 300-500 million people. We hasnt as advanced then. Now we have the ability to communicate far away distances that we didnt have then. We know this is a very bad virus. If we dont irracate this while we have a chance who knows what will happen. Sorry for the long post. I have lost several from my wifes family already (car wrecks, drownings, seizures, and her brother getting hit by a boat's prop). Its never a good thing when it happens. There are several family's getting multiple members taken out by this in places. I could not imagine one of my kids getting this. If I thought theres more I could have did to protect them and I didnt do it. Well that would eat me alive. I dont want this by any means to seem like I am against people workin because I myself still am. I just want everyone to be as careful as possible. Also please feel free to disagree with me it wont hurt my feelings.
Of course everyone will worry about their kids....but RS if they are ages 0-14 there is not a lot to worry about according to Dr. David Price a critical care pulmonologist caring for COVID-19 patients all day in NYC at Weill Cornell Hospital. I believe there has been only one infant in the US that tested positive that has died, and they have not confirmed yet that it died from corona.
I believe we have been asked to not discuss medical specifics in this thread but you can go to YouTube and search for "Dr. David Price" and see one of the most impressive talks about how to NOT get the coronavirus. He also speaks specifically about how kids 0-14 really have almost no worry of getting very sick from this...although they can carry and transmit it.
All, I have resisted this thread until now because my attitudinal lensing is far different than most. With that said, here goes. This is bad. On that we all agree. But why it's bad differs. Some are loosing money, other family members, and others their way of life or sense of normalcy. For me it's my way of life. Year over year, 650,000 people die of heart disease related causes in the US, yet we don't mobilize like this. Drugs, alcohol, suicide and other causes take over 100,000 more. We have concerts, specials, and donation events. But life goes on for most.
The American machine is coming to life to tackle this issue ( as is the world). That is awesome to watch with a bit of pride.
I am trying to look to the future, will this last? Will we come out of this stronger, more united, and with a sense of community? Or after this is defeated, will we fade back to the old ways and forget most of the hard learned lessons? I find myself thanking a lot more people for their efforts, but from a distance. I am more aware of the sacrifices of others, but for how long?
The unintended consequences of this must be a better "us". If not, we lost a once in a lifetime opportunity to be greater than the sum of our parts. Sadly the greatest generation is again going to sacrifice the most. It's just not fair, but what is.
To all that are sacrificing, thank you. For all that have rolled up theirs sleeves, thanks also. We all can do our part no matter how small, it all helps.
Let's not forget this. In the future, let's be more prepared. I don't want to be fooled like this again.
Time to strap on a jet and do my part. Stay safe, do your part and help the least among us. But most of all, remember these lessons, the price is high and I don't want to pay for them again.
I think we are seeing the best out of a lot of people during this crisis. I certainly don't want people dying unnecessarily.
As I may have mentioned early on, I've had a hard time matching up the actual threat of this virus against the societal and economic consequences.
I feel the usage of 'death rate' statistics has been incredibly irresponsible if not plain asinine, unless, of course, idiotic 'death rates' were used for a purpose.
The development or discovery of a viable treatment (Azithro./Chloroquine/Zinc) is something that should be bringing this thing to a quicker end. I know it makes me feel better, but it doesn't seem to be quelling things, or at least does not seem to be getting publicized.
Regarding stats, I'm also dubious on what are actual deaths due solely to COVID verses people that die who also have COVID, only as it may relate to the actual severity of the actual virus.
I think we are seeing the best out of a lot of people during this crisis. I certainly don't want people dying unnecessarily.
As I may have mentioned early on, I've had a hard time matching up the actual threat of this virus against the societal and economic consequences.
I feel the usage of 'death rate' statistics has been incredibly irresponsible if not plain asinine, unless, of course, idiotic 'death rates' were used for a purpose.
The development or discovery of a viable treatment (Azithro./Chloroquine/Zinc) is something that should be bringing this thing to a quicker end. I know it makes me feel better, but it doesn't seem to be quelling things, or at least does not seem to be getting publicized.
Regarding stats, I'm also dubious on what are actual deaths due solely to COVID verses people that die who also have COVID, only as it may relate to the actual severity of the actual virus.
You're right in that death rates are a red herring. Nearly everyone will survive.
But focus on the case hospitalization rate, which is running at about 15%. We must not exceed the capacity of our health care system. When that happens, the whole system breaks down. People will die from what would have been otherwise survivable events as they are refused admission or refused ICU care based on wartime-style triage criteria.
Most estimates suggest somewhere between 40-70% of all Americans will contract COVID19. We have 372M people, and let's say 50% will get it, so that's about 186M people infected. At 15% case hospitalization that's MILLIONS of people requiring hospitalization. We absolutely cannot handle that many people being sick all at once. If we don't apply drastic public health methods to slow down this train, we will have a complete disaster and millions will die not necessarily from the virus but from lack of access to care. Italy was the warning shot for the world, and they have MORE beds per population than we do.
Simply put, if the hospitals are full of COVID19 patients, where do we put everyone with heart disease? Where do we put the car accident victims, the stroke victims, the heart attack patients? How do we assist women with difficult childbirths? How do we perform life-saving surgeries?
We are suffering economically now to buy the healthcare system time to add capacity. To increase testing, yes, but more importantly to add bed numbers, ventilator stockpiles and critical protective equipment.
Bocomo, I appreciate your viewpoint and value your opinion.
I do understand the dangers of overwhelming our hospital/healthcare system. One aspect to even consider is that we can build more beds, but we can't just create more doctors or nurses, or medical technicians. So, I do get that aspect.
How do you feel about the hospitalization rate of approx. 15%?
I do wonder how accurate that statistic can be when we seem to both agree that the 'death rate' statistic is....well....whatever we want to call it.
Bocomo, I appreciate your viewpoint and value your opinion.
I do understand the dangers of overwhelming our hospital/healthcare system. One aspect to even consider is that we can build more beds, but we can't just create more doctors or nurses, or medical technicians. So, I do get that aspect.
How do you feel about the hospitalization rate of approx. 15%?
I do wonder how accurate that statistic can be when we seem to both agree that the 'death rate' statistic is....well....whatever we want to call it.
It's not that the death rate is wrong. Pond Boss answer: it depends. All these numbers depend critically on the availability of testing, the underlying age & health of the population it is infecting, as well as that population's ability to provide appropriate care. We still don't have the tests we were promised weeks ago so U.S. rates will float around. Compared to Italy, we are younger but we have worse health (obesity and diabetes are risk factors for poor COVID19 outcome) and less healthcare capacity. Projections of 200,000-2M deaths in the US are the consensus.
As for the case hospitalization rate, 15% is terrifying. It also seems like a good estimate to me. But you don't have to take my word for it...in NYC right now it's running around 20% as reported by NY public health.
I'm finally taking this seriously. But, don't go to extremes at any time on taking care of myself. I realize that, at 77 yoa, I'm no longer bullet or virus proof. I refuse to be a fatalist which just might be a chink in my armor.
Wife is now working from home which is a good thing since she doesn't have to drive to Dallas.
Really concerned about the national and world economy. A lot of companies aren't going to make it. The resulting micro and macro economics numbers aren't /won't be pretty and my calculations say the US and world are in a jam. I'll stop there to keep out of the resulting political thoughts and discussions here.
I'm down about $50K in one investment but it's still paying dividends on my original investments of 5%. But, my refrigerator and gas tank are both full. Big chunks of people in the world have never been able to say that.
I just feel like we are not basing our actions on real statistics, and it just seems like any valid 'corrections' in the stats would point this COVID virus to being far less severe than what the world is acting like. For example, did John Doe die from COVID, or 'with' COVID? Further, who all is infected? Asymptomatic people have to be in the statistics, but they are not.
Now, we do see the 'world' reacting to it, so we know that something is serious.
People are starting to ignore the social distancing guidelines, and that is starting to cause dissent between them and those who feel that the social distancing rules should be adhered to.
I know that I will be financially OK, and that my business will survive, but that's not true for a lot of folks.
Of course none of us want our hospitals over-run, but whose to say the rest of the country will be exactly like NY?
Some countries have had a lot less problems than Italy.....why?....a lot of reasons.
Maybe a lot of states will have a lot less problems than NY?
Models are not always correct.....many people rightfully doubted or scoffed at computer models that predicted, say, where a hurricane would make landfall or who was guaranteed to win a presidential election. It was a world-is-ending projection two weeks ago that there would be as many as 500,000 dead in the United Kingdom and as many as 2.2 million dead in the United States offered up by professor Neil Ferguson and his team at Imperial College London. That fired up the media’s panic machine. Professor Ferguson has since drastically scaled back his model to fewer than 20,000 deaths in Britain.
All I know is as of this morning Texas with a population very close to 29 million has around 90-100 deaths....w/around 5800 cases. Of course those figures will go up.....but 100 deaths out of 29 million?
Just for perspective cancer kills around 600,000 people in the US yearly. And heart disease kills another 600,000 in the US every year.
There are between 45,000 - 50,000 suicides in the US yearly.....and a destroyed economy will likely greatly increase that.
I know it's not all about the deaths, it's about the hospitals.
However I think the different medical discoveries/treatments will get this to a manageable state for the hospitals and when that happens I think we need to open the economy back up.
Sunil take a look at this author....he speaks about what you have questioned and his bio is quite impressive: Professor of medicine and professor of epidemiology and population health, as well as professor by courtesy of biomedical data science at Stanford University School of Medicine, professor by courtesy of statistics at Stanford University School of Humanities and Sciences, and co-director of the Meta-Research Innovation Center at Stanford (METRICS) at Stanford University
How many have been infected but not felt sickness, so no test. Are hospitalizations 15% of positive tests, or, of persons reporting sick and testing positive?
Now we're getting some scare stories that it can aerosolize for up to a few hours...wear masks at all times in public (urban environments?). It is time to re-visit Dr. David Price, if he has a newer video, to see if he was/is right that he can work with a patient in dire straights wearing a simple paper mask and not get sick (doing everything else, constantly using Purell). As he said, we only need N95 masks when messing with a patient will produce coughing, gagging, spitting and such.
Abilene couple remains under City ordered quarantine
Quote
Officers have been monitoring the home for days making sure the couple doesn’t leave their home.
Hanna said the husband and wife recently returned home from New York. The male , in his 40’s, refused to quarantine himself upon his return to Abilene. After having symptoms of the coronavirus, he continued to go on about his daily life......
I can't feel the real need to make this decision now. Teachers, school employees, coaches, parents and students all expected to be at school, so why not wait a week or two and see what develops. Further, all of the aforementioned people want to get back to school.
But, he made the call, so that's what we have to live by.......... (is there an 'anger' emoticon?)
NE schools and universities were cancelled statewide for the year over 3 weeks ago - everything proceeding online - our education system response to this pandemic with only 1 week to prepare has been nothing short of amazing. Our school year only goes until late May, so we were only looking at 9 more weeks of school, so the decision was likely easier to make. Granted it's inconvenient - yet seems prudent not to risk sending my kids to a petri dish daily with the virus circulating and bringing it back home, especially for parents or Gparents at higher risk of contracting and dying. My wife works in a middle school as a counselor and there's not a single teacher who doesn't believe this was the right thing to do for the kids and educators health and safety - although their jobs are significantly more difficult working remotely in a full house - and will continue to be until the school year ends. My wife has never been busier or more stressed, but at least we're all healthy - for now.
I'm friends with some teachers in and around the Pittsburgh area.
In one eastern suburb of Pittsburgh, the teachers, in general, are not concerned that going back to 'normal' school is unsafe. The greatest concern seems to be that the students are learning quite a bit less with the online format.
A lot of suburbs were already set up where most every student already had a laptop/online device, however, some of the other districts are way behind that curve.
I've been somewhat skeptical of the level of 'reaction' to this virus, and just don't think that the schools are going to ever be less of a 'petri' dish than they already are and always have been.
Once the question of 'safety' is invoked, it's almost carte blanche to take whatever measures one feels necessary to protect the people.
I see the decision to close the PA schools yesterday as a 'punt.' Online schooling was already happening. Waiting another week or two doesn't impact anyone.
Long time no login to the forums but lurking. Happy to say we are blessed that we live where our pond is, and have space so the stay at home orders actually make me happy so I can enjoy our spot without spending 50+ hours a week working. I finally found time to trim my apple trees and plant a few more (mail order), and have pulled all the willows and poplars near the water.
We bought one of the Pullerbears from Canada, and if you need to pull smaller brush and trees, it is actually kind of fun.
I needed a vacation, but not getting one. Working from home as much as possible, but being in microelectronics and developing military and medical equipment, we are allowed to continue on. We have also applied to one of those magical loans, no word yet if it has gone through, but I have very little doubt. Most other employees that are in code writing and not in hardware are working from home. Five of us in a rather large building rather spaced out.
My wife works for the VA as a caregiver support social worker. It took two days between the alert and her moving to working from home! I was very impressed. Managed to get our internet upgraded to support it very quickly once we mentioned that my wife works for the VA and what she does. Again, thankful as otherwise it may have been a month out due to demand.
So, Covid-19. Yes, much has changed. Yes, neighbors on both sides of us have had it, all survived, thank God! But from their personal accounts, there in NO WAY IN HELL I want to try. I already have a chronic cough from last year's lung viral infection that lasted 3 weeks, and this sounds far worse. Especially when you think you are over it, and the SOB comes back with fevers near 104! Scary shiz. Now our babysitter, who moved to WA has it. She got it by making masks and then going out in public to hand them out. She is young and healthy, but nothing hurts more than being charitable trying to help, and then be "punished" for it.
Yeah, and every time my cough acts up, I start to stress out. Particularly this morning after shopping yesterday. Wore my mask though so if I do have it, I wasn't sharing.
So far, surprisingly happy with Cuomo's handling of all of this. Otherwise me and him have a lot of serious disagreements.
A few other interesting tidbits: There was a recent study of sewage near Boston to see if the infection rate could be determined by the mars bars carriers. It seems the infection rate may be more than 10x of what is being reported. That is actually really good news as it drops death rates way down. It also means the infection rates are really high and/or the virus has been around a lot longer than anyone thought. However, I am seeing hints that people who have not had a strong reaction to the virus may not have full immunity either. They can get re-infected if blasted by a very contagious person.
The area in which I live is pretty rural, about 5 families per 100 acres. Yet two neighbor families have gotten it. Neither of them were able to get tests, so they don't count in the stats for the county. This sort of thing is why we cannot make sound judgements when we don't have good enough numbers to make decisions. The immunity tests can't come soon enough to know when we can get back to work! We have to look at the numbers we have, and they look pretty bad, but at least not nearly as bad as first projected.
Lastly, when social distancing is a thing, why in the heck are the grocery stores only selling Hams in the 10+ pound range?!?! Yeah, my family of 3 can eat that much Ham.
Gotta love TX. Just left Brashear General Store with 3 street tacos, and a gallon of hand sanitizer. The guy with the hand sanitizer owns a distillery in Brownsville, and came up here with 4 totes full, so I'm guessing over 200 gallons.
If any of you NE TX guys need some, now's the time to get it.
Daughter had a super light case of it, or something like it, a couple of weeks ago. Now, her son, myGrandson Trevor, has it and it’s a rougher one than she got.
I’m finally realizing that I need to be more careful.
BTW, I bought a bunch of masks from Amazon. They said one day shipping and it’s evidently true. Problem is that then they say4 to 6 weeks delivery. Found out from Al(Fire is Hot) thT it is being shipped From China.
Dave.....since we are in close proximity.....I got a shipment of surgical masks last week for our company....but I could certainly spare a few for you....and a washable cloth mask...I could FedEx you six masks to hold you over until you finally get yours....they would be at your door by tomorrow morning. At our age we need 'em Dave!
I was doing some reading this morning about how contagious this virus is. I have been aware of this for awhile now but my concerns are even more so now that we are opening up. Even nurses, doctors etc who are garbed up, masked up and gloved continue to get this crap that kills. Even if it's only 2% that die, if you or a family member then it does not matter that it's only that 2%. Zep, way to go helping out fellow pond boss friends and followers. Dave, I got some masks from ebay and were delivered in 5 days. But prices can be up there when shopping for anything that relates to safety during these times. Have any of you priced hand sanitizer lately? WOW! Another thing is how safe are the masks that are being sold coming out of china? Like a lot of things from china it may say this or that but it's like buying from harbor freight. Questionable I think.
I'm friends with some teachers in and around the Pittsburgh area.
In one eastern suburb of Pittsburgh, the teachers, in general, are not concerned that going back to 'normal' school is unsafe. The greatest concern seems to be that the students are learning quite a bit less with the online format.
A lot of suburbs were already set up where most every student already had a laptop/online device, however, some of the other districts are way behind that curve.
I've been somewhat skeptical of the level of 'reaction' to this virus, and just don't think that the schools are going to ever be less of a 'petri' dish than they already are and always have been.
Once the question of 'safety' is invoked, it's almost carte blanche to take whatever measures one feels necessary to protect the people.
I see the decision to close the PA schools yesterday as a 'punt.' Online schooling was already happening. Waiting another week or two doesn't impact anyone.
I talked to the HS Junior who handles square bales and helps with fencing and asked how on-line school was going.
"At first it ticked me off, now I just fill like it's something that a have to do."
And I asked if he was learning anything.
"Oh, Hell no. Except Math."
This is a good kid, As & Bs student, with an exceptional work ethic for a 17 year old.
I think schools are going to have to change to online until we have a way to treat the virus, symptoms etc. Classrooms are a petri dishes and will bring the virus back home when classrooms starts back. If online was taken seriously I don't see any difference from a teacher standing or setting in the front of the class verses on a screen other than the student taking the class seriously or actually taking the class. Hay, it might be time to change how we teach anyway. After all we stand very low in learning/ teaching when it comes to our comparison around the world when it comes to educational degrees here verses world. Don't we rank in the 30's when it comes to education?
Don't we rank in the 30's when it comes to education?
I don't think we are that high on the list. The good thing about online teaching is the fact that teachers can mute the trouble makers if they show up. My Sister says three tho five of her students show up and only three turned in any homework. Of course, what insensitive do they have when the school board says none of this will count towards their grades. Move them along, nothing to see here.... And we wonder why things are the way they are. Rant over for now.
I think we SHOULD go back to school early. Everyone has to be exposed eventually. It is extremely likely that cases of COVID were circulating in Michigan schools before we were told anything about COVID and weeks before anything was locked down. A few kids in our schools were very sick with influenza like symptoms but they got better without seeing a doctor or going to the hospital. The rest did not catch it. Mortality rates nationwide for kids under 18 is extremely low. We let kids continue going to school every winter during influenza, this coming winter will be no exception and COVID is here to stay.
COVID probably will be at a low level during the summer months and reappear in the fall and winter again as air conditions change and people congregate inside again. People who don't have immunity now will be exposed again and have a chance to develop immunity again then. I hope we don't shut down society this fall when a few cases of COVID pop up again. The main reason to shutdown society when COVID activity arrived for the first time was not to prevent infections but to keep the PACE of the infection at a level that hospitals could handle. They needed to make sure enough medical staff stayed well and there was enough PPE. Unless we 100% isolated everyone in plastic bubbles with air purifiers, lockdown or stay at home orders do not prevent transmission but they prevent a huge spike in simultaneous transmission. Even the mandatory wear a mask order in MI gives false sense of security since they also remind us that the masks do not work. If the case rate is manageable from here on out then I hope we can allow normal society to go on and work on building the natural immunity that comes through living in a world of invisible viruses.
Hopefully this will be a reminder to those who haven't been too kind to their lungs or who live a lifestyle that likely will advance the cause of diabetes or heart disease will do their best to work towards healthier habits.
+100 on what Canyon said. COVID19 is here to stay. Living life is about making choices and taking risks. There's been sufficient testing to tell us that COVID19 is wide spread, and the mortality rate is very low (around 0.5% currently). It definitely sucks if the one who dies is our own family or friend. I pray that you & yours (the PB family) come through safe and sound. But no vaccine is coming. No wildly effective medications are likely either. But our immune systems will adapt, and life will go on. We might as well venture out and wet a line.
Venture out and wet a line? Yep, send kids to a school that has not worked for the most part, let them spread the virus and kill off some of the grocers, health care workers, police and firefighters and the elderly. And Oh yea! Kill of those terrible people that did not live up to others expectations. That's a good plan. Never going to have a vaccine. Come on, sounds like that is what they said when the world is flat. And you can't grow big fish in our ponds. I have found that man can do what he sets out to do if he has the desire to do so. Use your head and stay safe.
+100 on what Canyon said. COVID19 is here to stay. Living life is about making choices and taking risks. There's been sufficient testing to tell us that COVID19 is wide spread, and the mortality rate is very low (around 0.5% currently). It definitely sucks if the one who dies is our own family or friend. I pray that you & yours (the PB family) come through safe and sound. But no vaccine is coming. No wildly effective medications are likely either. But our immune systems will adapt, and life will go on. We might as well venture out and wet a line.
This is a great idea but it will not work with this virus. The problem is the only immunity we have to this is called our active immunity. Our passive immunity doesn't even recognize this virus. This means there is very little chance the virus will ever have a vaccine, and very little chance your immunity will last more then 6 months.
This is a SARs 2.0 and there is no vaccine for SARs or MERs. Here in Canada things are shut down too and now extended to May 31st. Events are being canceled out to August 30th now. It is now understood this virus doesn't have legs and is only transmitted by human to human contact. Limiting this is the only way we are going to get back to our lives if we ever do.
The only hard data you can stick with is the recovered numbers and the death ratio. These are the only known factors that exist. The death rate is in the 25 to 20% and is not, no where near 2% and not to be taken lightly.
Everyone please stay home stay safe and keep this virus from traveling.
The death rate is in the 25 to 20% and is not, no where near 2% and not to be taken lightly.
Uh? The US has 330 million population There have been less than 70,000 US COVID deaths thus far.
If COVID death rate was really in the 25% range there would be hundreds of thousands of deaths in the US alone. I don't know of any experts now predicting several hundred thousand deaths in the US.
Here in Harrison Co Texas there have been 120 confirmed cases with 14 deaths. That is more than 10% death rates I think Harrison co has the highest numbers when comparing to other E. Texas counties. Most likely due to it being so close to Shreveport La. where virus numbers are high. Mata graw kick Louisiana's butt spreading the disease. I know these numbers of cases may be off due to lack of testing but confirmed verses death rate is higher than 2%.. Any other numbers are just guesses educated or not. And the death numbers are still rising. I expect to see a jump in the next 30 days because of things opening up. And I think it will be a bigger jump than expected. Another thing is a lot of transmission is passed along to family. My 24 yr old grandson said to me the other day "He has never seen anything like this" I told him I was 67 and I have never seen anything like this either. The word is Pandemic. None of us have seen this before. Stay safe!
"Here in Harrison Co Texas there have been 120 confirmed cases with 14 deaths. That is more than 10% death rates ..."
TGW, can you clarify on that, please?
I'm feeling that the (120) is not the denominator in the 'death rate' calculation.
That would be the case-fatality rate, the number of deaths per people who test positive for the virus. If you only test the sickest people, this rate will go up.
If COVID death rate was really in the 25% range there would be hundreds of thousands of deaths in the US alone. I don't know of any experts now predicting several hundred thousand deaths in the US.
Sunil, I agree that 120 cases is most likely not a good number when it comes to the possibility of many more cases than the 120 counted. But the 120 is the number reported in the county a couple of days ago. 14 deaths was also reported at that time. Those numbers show more than a 10% death rate like I reported. Any other numbers falls into what I call a SWAG. Scientific Wild Ass Guess!
Bocomo, case fatality rate might be a realistic calculation, but I just reported here the numbers of deaths verses confirmed cases in Harrison Co.
I had to make a trip into Marshal Texas yesterday for fuel and vehicle traffic was way up from just a week ago. Based on what I saw I believe the confirmed cases are going way up in the next 30 days. And that concerns me a lot.
I understand economics when it comes to business because I ran my own for 34 years. So how is it all going to work out when it comes to business, and family economics and this Pandimic? I think China spread it on purpose after they new what they had. All they really had to do is just ask for help, but they chose a different path. I also think they are here to steal our knowledge of things. My example would be when I went to LSU Agg for testing my water in the pond a couple of years ago. After the test I met with LSU Rep and discovered he was from China and as we discussed such things as biological/ Microbial water treatments I found out I knew more than he did when we discussed Shreveport's water supply Cross Lake and excess nutrients with possible treatment. I found it at that time to be unusual that I knew more than a so called expert.
The Wharton School of Business puts the upper bound at 300,000 deaths by the end of June if states reopen.
Bocomo so I guess I wasn't really considering how many "experts" are producing "models" out there...of course so many models/projections have already been wrong.....and many models/projections are based on unknown information and assumptions.....Obviously many real-world variables can cause model assumptions to be inaccurate and affect the true outcome.
But yes the models range the whole gamut and many models state "under certain circumstances" X "could" happen....so pick a number and you can probably find that "model".
I'm not sure there are many like Wharton claiming under certain scenarios that by the end of June there "could be" 300,000 US Deaths from COVID.
Even Gu’s model projects that U.S. Covid-19 deaths by early August could be as low as 88,217 and as high as 293,381, with a most likely toll of 150,760.
It appears Wharton is greatly increasing even Gu's projections for end of June....and Gu is known as pushing the upper possible limits.
If there are 300,000 US deaths from COVID by the end of June 2020 Bocomo I will buy you a new boat.
The Wharton School of Business puts the upper bound at 300,000 deaths by the end of June if states reopen.
Bocomo so I guess I wasn't really considering how many "experts" are producing "models" out there...of course so many models/projections have already been wrong.....and many models/projections are based on unknown information and assumptions.....Obviously many real-world variables can cause model assumptions to be inaccurate and affect the true outcome.
But yes the models range the whole gamut and many models state "under certain circumstances" X "could" happen....so pick a number and you can probably find that "model".
I'm not sure there are many like Wharton claiming under certain scenarios that by the end of June there "could be" 300,000 US Deaths from COVID.
Even Gu’s model projects that U.S. Covid-19 deaths by early August could be as low as 88,217 and as high as 293,381, with a most likely toll of 150,760.
It appears Wharton is greatly increasing even Gu's projections for end of June....and Gu is known as pushing the upper possible limits.
If there are 300,000 US deaths from COVID by the end of June 2020 Bocomo I will buy you a new boat.
And neither of those things are going to happen.
All models are bad. Some are worse than others.
Wharton's setup is less of a prediction than a simulation in the sense that you can change the parameters and re-run it to see the effects. The upper bound they report is if you relax all the virus restrictions for all states immediately which is not going to happen. The most interesting part of the model is their prediction of how stay-at-home vs. social distancing vs. going back to "normal" affects the economy.
I'm late to this conversation and admit I have NOT read the other pages in it. However, I am reminded of the 3 types of lies: 1) lies; 2) damn lies; and 3) STATISTICS!
But by any measure, Covid-19 is not a good thing. As a WAG 150,000 (or higher) sounds reasonable.
My Grandson Trevor got out of the hospital today. He spent 3 days due to 104+ temp. They didnt come up with an identification of what he had but he’s glad to be home.
It could also be from a tick bite. He and another guy caught, I think, 13 pigs in a trap on my place. They were loaded with ticks and they butchered them. This was about a week ago. He doesn’t recall getting tick bit but.... I’ll dang sure spray down when I’m there. I have no shortage of pigs. My wife saw a bunch of about 50, including young ones, crossing an area over the weekend. I brought a tick home on me that I hadn’t noticed.
Because the of shutdown I am being furloughed for two weeks. I am going to use the time off and the stimulus check to treat my muddy pond with alum. Then I need to do an engine swap on an old riding mower I keep out by the pond. Then need to get corn planted in my deer plot. LOTS to do.
Also my step-dad just passed away (not Covid) and thus will have a major project of cleaning out his duplex.
FWIW, here in NY a random sampling of people were tested, about 6000, to see what the antibody positive count was. To everyone's surprise, it was far higher than expected. In the city proper, almost 1 in 4 people had it. Out here, 1 in 25-ish. This was three weeks ago now, so the numbers are higher by now.
What did we learn? The actual death rate is <1%, closer to 0.5%. The majority of people never knew they had it. Only the sickest get tested normally, which over-inflates the death rate. We are basing a lot of decisions on crap data.
What else have I learned today? 1. Scientists have confirmed you can only get it once. No significant mutations (yet) that allow re-infection. It turns out the tests for active infections don't differentiate between DNA of a dead virus (post infection) and live. There were false positives in already infected but recovered people. 2. It is airborne. People can get it without contact, just not as easily. It doesn't primarily infect that way, but can and does. 3. Re-opening soon is going to be necessary, whether we like it or not. It will be the lesser of two evils if people start to get rebellious and desperate. 4. You are going to get it. Face it. Everyone will but roughly 20% of the population. Lucky people or those we need to isolate until a vaccine is ready. All we are doing is stretching out the inevitable. 5. A vaccine is possible, but unlikely. Don't count on it being available before the problem solves itself. 6. Best bet is to isolate the vulnerable as much as humanly possible. This doesn't mean everyone at the detriment of social stability. 7. A second wave is sure to happen if we clamp down this hard and then let up. It HAS to, there simply is that much "fertile ground" for it to work with. Summer may be the best time to let it go due to: 8. A healthy immune system is key. Get your vitamin D, natural and supplements, get out, get exercise, live life. Sitting inside locked up watching TV and drinking too much is counter-productive.
What I am still annoyed about is upstate is still locked down with NYC problems. Barely an issue now in my area, and now set at least to the end of May. Re-opening wont occur until the impossible happens: Containment, more or less. Its going to get ugly soon as unemployment is not coming through for many.
In the meantime, I am getting a lot of yard work done, and started the pain in the butt process of raking out the chara to get ready for SoilFloc. Still hoping my wedding ring comes up with the weeds.
Sunil, they never came up with anything concrete on just why he was so ill. They found infection around and surrounding his heart. What happened to come up with temp of over 104? He doesn’t remember a tick bite but the Doc said symptoms mirrored it and the hogs they caught/butchered were loaded with them.
Everything said the virus except one Doc said it looked more like tick fever. One Doc said they don’t have a real handle on what the virus is and how to whip it. He is out of the hospital and glad of it.
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