I went fishing tonight with a 3" BG, hoping to target our last adult LMB (which is extremely hook-shy).

For those who aren't familiar, our pond has 1 remaining LMB at about 11-12", another LMB at about 5.5", but otherwise just BG and some YP that we stocked a month ago at 6-8". We'd ideally like to get the remaining LMB out, and experiment with a predominantly YP/BG pond.

I've seen noted many times on these forums that YP can't eat a BG bigger than about 2", so I thought I was safe using a 3" BG to target only the LMB, especially given that our YP are smaller adults.

Well, on the third cast, something smashed the 3" BG quite hard, and put up a bit of a fight, so I was really pumped up to finally see our 11-12" LMB come out of the water, and......

it was a quite fat YP that I estimated at about 8.5" (using my hand as a measuring stick).

I don't dispute that fusiform, soft-rayed forage such as minnows or shiners are much better YP forage and that if a person is shooting for trophy YP, that would be optimal, but now this made me believe that maybe BG as YP forage isn't such a horrible idea for us specifically, given our small pond with almost no cover and that we're aiming for higher numbers of medium-sized panfish for harvest (not trophies of either YP or BG).

I should add that I'm still not convinced that our high numbers of adult YP relative to adult BG will be enough to properly manage the BG population and prevent stunting. I am just surprised that the YP will be able to continue to feed on the BG on up to a much larger size than I originally thought, so this makes me think that with our smaller pond (meaning that I can manually remove BG and have more of an impact) with almost no cover and no alternative forage, there's a small chance that the BG may be able to be managed without LMB.

Drew, I think all species to some extent are opportunistic in nature. An injured fish with something out of the ordinary presents a target in itself. BG are very prolific, as are YP from what I understand-I'm learning just how many different species they will eat, but presented in the right frame, there will always be surprises.
You have a couple of other options for predators other than LMB that can be controlled to some extent but of the 2 choices I have in Mind (WAE-HSB) both have drawbacks. Walleye will prefer the YP because they inhabit the same areas. HSB are more likely to run across BG. Both are available tools and maybe a few of each could work out.

I think it was Bill Cody who stated that YP predate a lot on sunfish (BG) in the cold water months.

Agreed Kenny and Theo. I realize I buried my main takeaway in the middle of 47 pages of inane babble.

I think it's well-known and accepted that YP will eat YoY BG. My surprise is that apparently YP are able to eat much larger BG than what is often noted here.

I'll try to find the exact threads for reference, but I had in my mind that in our resident experts' experience, YP (even large adults) won't/can't eat a BG larger than 1.5-2". Maybe I'm misquoting or misunderstanding, but I could have sworn I've seen such figures referenced multiple times. So using a reasonably large 12" YP as an example, this is saying that it can't eat a BG larger than 1/6 of its body length. What I just saw shows that a roughly 8.5" YP (a small adult) is at least able to eat a BG up to 3" long, i.e., the YP ate a BG of about 1/3 its length. This still doesn't prove that that actually happens often in nature, just that it's possible.

I should note that I don't believe we can extrapolate at all beyond this example I saw last night. Actually now reading back, I think using those length of YP to length of BG ratios was misleading. I'm definitely no expert, so anyone feel free to correct me here, but I don't think a YP's mouth would keep growing much wider than what I saw on this 8.5" specimen. Also, IME YoY BG become more and more deep-bodied as they grow past 3", so a 4" BG is a good bit deeper-bodied than a 3" BG, I think.

Main point being, I don't want anyone to construe my example as meaning a 15" perch could eat a 5" BG (1/3rd its length). I don't think we can extrapolate. We have 1 data point, that a 8.5" YP can eat a 3" BG, and that's it.

I caught a 5" bluegill on a Pop-R last Saturday. I don't know what that fish thought he was going to do with it, because he sure wasn't going to be able to swallow it.

Maybe he was just mad. lol

I think we see things in fishing that may not happen in the natural environment because fish don't have "hooks".. I think fish will try and-dare I say attack-swat at many "Too large" meals. Heck, GSF will nip yer shorts, fingers ect.. It's the "what's the dog gonna do with the car we he catches it" deal.
Like Augie, I've had 7-8" LMB smack 6-8" topwater baits fishing for HSB.

Yes there are studies that show significant predation on small BG (3 in <) in cooler/cold water.

YP will hit anything. 5" stick baits for example. An 8.5" YP isn't afraid of anything you have in your pond.

In my pond, if it moves, something will eat it lol