Pond Boss
Posted By: Snipe Handful of GSH die-off - 05/31/19 01:36 PM
Hey all, Beings I've dealt with GSH on a very limited basis in the larger lakes I deal with, I find myself a bit perplexed at trying to understand the golden shiner.
I noticed while watering some new grass at the pond yesterday afternoon that I was seeing a couple of GSH just slowly swimming at the surface so I made a full walk-around and noted 5 total. On the way around I found 2 dead lodged up in the riprap. Within 2 hours all 5 of the surfacers were dead and slowly floated to shore.
Nearly calm for western KS yesterday, 5-7 mph NW wind.
Going to take a look here shortly but not understanding if GSH are just super delicate or if I need to be looking into something else.
In my experience fish just don't die (more than 1) at the same time for no reason. Any insight on GSH habits would be much appreciated.
Thanks guys.
Additional question.. are GSH touchy about DO levels compared to other species??
Posted By: SetterGuy Re: Handful of GSH die-off - 05/31/19 02:26 PM
My GS are proving to be very hardy. Reproducing very well with I think one, that I’ve found floating. I think some are at the very limit of what my SMB can eat. So we routinely have caught larger GS on worms when fishing for YP. I’m sure glad I stocked them as my FHM have disappeared.
Posted By: Sunil Re: Handful of GSH die-off - 05/31/19 05:31 PM
How big were the GSH that died?


Also, it may be important to differentiate between the 'Golden Shiner' and the 'Golden Shriner.' (h/t to Theo Gallus)
Posted By: Snipe Re: Handful of GSH die-off - 06/01/19 05:24 AM
Ranged in size from 3.5-5.5”
These are GSH I stocked in November from Anderson minnow farm.
Haven’t seen a dead one since stocking , had the usual handful of floaters a day or two after stocking and haven’t seen even a sick one until yesterday.
I’ve looked in one of my AFS books and I don’t find golden “Shriner”.. never heard of it and don’t know what it is.
Posted By: roundy Re: Handful of GSH die-off - 06/01/19 02:59 PM
Snipe - Here's a school in their natural habitat.
Posted By: Snipe Re: Handful of GSH die-off - 06/02/19 03:00 AM
I guess I probably had that coming...
With that being said, would anyone venture a guess on the reason for the SHINER to be having issues??
Nothing else has surfaced of the other species present, no pipping at sunrise, so no low DO issues likely.
Posted By: ewest Re: Handful of GSH die-off - 06/03/19 05:48 PM
SRAC Publication No. 120
Common Farm-Raised Baitfish


Golden shiner
(Notemigonus crysoleucas)
A thin, deep-bodied fish with a
small, triangular head and large,
loose, reflective scales, the golden
shiner is a flashy, attractive baitfish.
The mouth is small and
turned up, and the tail deeply
forked. From the side, golden
shiners are silver or sometimes
golden; from above they are dark
greenish brown. Young fish often
have a dark, horizontal stripe
along the midline, running the
length of the body. The sexes can
be distinguished when fish are in
breeding colors. Males develop a
fine, sandpapery texture on the
lower body, and the lower
abdomen and vent area may have
a dusky color. The abdomen of the
female (and some males) remains
smooth and white. The pectoral
and pelvic fins of the male become
bright gold, while those of the
female are either clear or have
gold on the outer edge only. It is
easy to obtain milt from ripe
males with gentle pressure to the
lower abdomen. Many females are
larger than males by the spring of
the first year, as they begin to
reach sexual maturity.
Golden shiners are native to or
have been introduced into much
of the continental United States.
They have been used widely as a
baitfish since the 1940s.
Golden shiners eat a wide variety
of natural foods and readily
accept prepared fish feeds.
Zooplankton, insects and algae
(including filamentous algae)
make up most of their diet. Larval
golden shiners (fry) feed on small
zooplankton and algae either in
the water or attached to underwater
surfaces.
Golden shiners spawn in the
spring when water temperatures
rise above 68 oF (20 oC). They quit
spawning when temperatures
exceed 81 oF (27 oC). Once spawning
begins, fish will continue to
spawn even when temperatures
drop below 68 oF. Golden shiners
spawn frequently, attaching their
adhesive eggs to aquatic vegetation
or spawning mats. No care is
given to the young. Eggs are
about 4/100ths of an inch (1 mm)
in diameter and hatch in 3 to 4
days, depending on water temperature.

From one study

"The dissolved oxygen content of warm water fish habitats shall be not less than 5 ppm during at least 16 h of any 24-h period. It may be less than 5 ppm for a period not to exceed 8 h within any 24-5 period, but at no time shall the oxygen content be less than 3 ppm. To sustain a coarse fish population dissolved oxygen concentration may be less than 5 ppm for a period of not more than 8 h out of any 24-h period, but at no time shall the concentration be below 2 ppm". l~oore (1942) found that a dissolved oxygen con- centration of 3.5 to 5.0 ppm is very important for the survival of most warm-water fish at day temperatures of i5 ~ to 26 ~ Some investigators, however, have claimed that fishes can live at a lower oxygen level. Tarzwell (1957) found that the smallmouth bass Micropterus dolomieui /ived for some time in 0.4 ppm of oxygen, hut he did not mention for how long. Burdick et al. (i954) re- corded mortality in M. dolomieui after 5 to 9 h at oxygen concentrations of 0.7 to 1.17 ppm and tem- peratures of ii.ii ~ to 22.22 ~ Gardner and King (1922) reported the asp]hyxial level of trout to be iA ppm of dissolved oxygen at 6.5 ~ and 3.4 ppm at 25 ~ Rounsefell and Everhart (1960, pp 40 4i) listed oxygen tolerance limits which are lower than the above- mentioned levels. These include minimum oxygen requirements as low as 0.38 ppm for the largemouth bass Micropterus salmoides, 0.2 to 0.3 ppm for the black bullhead Ictalurus melas and below 0.2 ppm for the golden shiner Notemigonus crysoleucas.

Posted By: Snipe Re: Handful of GSH die-off - 06/04/19 03:04 AM
Thank you ewest, appreciate you digging that up.
7 dead on 1 day, nothing since. It was a sunny day as well.
Not sure what that was about. Strange..
Posted By: gehajake Re: Handful of GSH die-off - 06/04/19 11:38 AM
With a pond that is currently filling up with the abundant rain we been having I stocked the pond with bait fish, GS FHM BG RES, also earlier had added a couple boxes of GS fry from anderson minnow farm, the fry seemed to be extremely lively and soon found them spread in all quadrants of the pond, about 8 acres at this point, growing fast, some of them pretty much an inch long or better in less then a month, but I have seen quite a bit of fry dead and floating at some of the edges on the down wind side, the rest seem to be extremely lively and doing good, not sure if I should be alarmed or not and what would cause that, and whether it will stop or continue on, obviously have quite a bit of money involved at this point. also got tons of new fry around the edges from possibly the other species that I stocked for that reason, which means things are somewhat going as planned but a little worried about the dying ones, any thoughts, I have not done any tests on the water, but its all rain water that started collecting in mid Feb, around 25' in spots.
I have a 4" drain in the bottom of the pond, and if I open it the water that drains has sort of a septic smell, not sure if that might be normal or not.
Thanks in advance
Posted By: gehajake Re: Handful of GSH die-off - 06/04/19 07:24 PM
Upon further inspection I don't think it was the GS fry that was floating but rather some other species because when I walk around the whole pond all the original GS fry seem to be an inch or better long and doing great, gazillions of them. and the dead ones were only about 1/2" in length, and I am not seeing any floating anymore so it may have been a false alarm. Thanks
Posted By: Snipe Re: Handful of GSH die-off - 06/05/19 03:15 AM
Fry are extremely sensitive to temp and weather changes. A sharp drop in water temp can kill FHM fry.
Posted By: gehajake Re: Handful of GSH die-off - 06/05/19 11:24 AM
Thanks for the input Snipe, that may well have been it, we had several really warm days that warmed the water up and then a cool 1 1/4" rain that probably dropped the surface temp a good bit.
And there were about 60 lbs of FHM put in there for reproduction purposes. Thanks again!
Posted By: ewest Re: Handful of GSH die-off - 06/05/19 03:09 PM
Extremely high mortality rates are common in fry. Many die from starvation.
Posted By: Snipe Re: Handful of GSH die-off - 06/05/19 11:05 PM
ewest brings up an excellent point, and very often normal part of the revolving ecosystem. Sometimes we assume everything is perfect and everything should live, when in reality, water quality, stage of bloom and forage is not always prime and available. Simply put, some natural mortality is normal, sometimes needed and overlooked.
In my case, seeing what ended up being just 7 adults moving at the surface, then dying within a few hours, worried me. Still not sure why but nothing noted since.
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