Am I freaking out for no reason? My concern is the bloom that's going on at the pond. Water secchi readings are at 10 to 12 " and the cnbg numbers at the feeders are way down. Maybe 80% less fish eating at the feeders. The water is HOT, 90 degrees in the mid day. Its been this way for the past 12 days or so.
I cut back the feeding time this year because I did not want to fight strong or excess blooms again this year. But that has not helped. I have 6 diffusers running 24/7 and thinking about cutting them off 4 hrs during the hottest time of the day, but with all the plankton in the water, I am concerned shutting them off could make water conditions worse. The last Pond Boss Magazine had an article on 12" visibility of green water and it's benefits, but dam, this 10 to 12" green water visibility is kinda of freaking me out to the point I had the elec coop come out and tell me they want $10,000 bucks to get elec to the pond. Now I am looking at solar and or generators for surface aerators, agitators. Money disposal systems. Your thoughts please

I don't think shutting the aerators off for 4 hr during the heat of the day will make much difference in pond water temp. Definitely keep them running at night.

Instead of $10K running electric, what about a diesel or propane generator?

The fish slowing down eating tell you that they are stressed, either by water temp, O2 levels or both. The spawn up here is just winding down too, so that could be another reason why you are not seeing them, but if they were feeding great 1-2 weeks ago then forget I said that.

Surface agitators (either a paddlewheel or volcano) combined with bottom diffusion aeration is the only way to maximize O2 levels in a pond that is over 8' deep.

esshup, thanks for your thoughts. I have been looking at generators and was thinking Generac, I have one of those at the lake house where it runs off propane. But there again, the cost difference between the elec coop and the generator is not all that different. So I was thinking a smaller generator, and hoping i could get this done before i find a bunch of floaters. And yes my fish were feeding hard two weeks ago and then we had a big rain followed by this bloom and the fish quit feeding so much at the feeders.

I also found one 16" floating HSB yesterday at mid day. another reason for the concerns. And the 6 diffusers are running in 8 to 12 foot water depths. 4 in 10' depths, one in 12' and 1 in 8'

90 F will not usually kill BG or LMB nor HSB. Fast temp changes are usually the reason for temp related die-offs. I would not slow down the air. You can knock the plankton bloom back a little with a copper spray but that has risk associated with it. Do you have an outboard motor you can use to further stir the water ?

ewest, I do have an outboard I can use and is just a short distance from the pond. This morning I hooked up my Honda pump along with a sprinkler that will handle 65 gpm and kicked it off. it might help, I hope. Pump should run for at least two hours, maybe a little longer. about 8,000 gals through the sprinkler in that time frame. Not much considering pond holds about 92,000 gals per inch.
I was hoping the bloom would die back a little but if not and the water remains at 10" or less(that is my concern) what copper product would you use? What time of day would be best for applying the product and on a 3.4 acre pond how much area should I consider applying? Normally my heavy blooms will die back in a week or so but this bloom has not.

What is your visibility ? I would not use the copper product unless you have a 10 inch or less visibility for all day.

Tracy, I don't know enough to suggest anything for your current situation, but perhaps for the long run you could grow more pond plants to take up some of the excess fertilizer.

One of the plants put in my pond a few weeks ago has done really well, and so far (fingers crossed) hasn't gone deeper than 2 to 3 feet. If you'd like me to fetch you some, I'd be more than happy to do so, though you'd probably need to adjust it to your temp, pH, and alkalinity.

No guarantees, but it's doing well for me so far. My BOW has cleared some, which I don't want, but might be helpful for your situation.

Let me know if I can help. If you do have a die off, I can supply CNBG and/or LSL bass. Nothing huge yet, but at least gives you a head start!

Thanks Frank I knew you were a good guy . ewest, my visibility seems to be hanging around the 10" mark. I ran a 20hp Yamaha for a min or so and saw no tattletale water at the motor (5 yr old Yamaha) so pulled it out of the pond and checked it with a garden hose. After going through the clean out process it seems like my water pump needs a new impeller. And I just ran the thing for 10 days at white river ark. OH well, what else can happen. I am not giving up yet! I need something to hold me over till next week when I can get a paddle wheel or something. I Ran the water sprinkler for 6 hrs yesterday, and after the boat motor deal, I hope the honda pump sprinkler holds up. Sometime when it rains it pours

PS, now I am thinking of putting my 225hp etec at the pond and REALLY blowing some water

I worked for our electric co-op for 35 years, some of those years in the capacity of saying yes or no to proposed line extensions. Co-ops base their line extension policies on past experience and on pay back time for the membership as a whole. Extension of a line to a situation that might be temporary or low usage like a pond, camper, seasonal cabin, etc is usually done at full cost, because there is usually no payback due to low, intermittent, or temporary electrical usage.
YMMV

How far is it to the nearest power source?

Panola Harrison elec coop measured 1500' to get power to the pond and that was from the closest highline, it runs 1/4mi from road to the farm house. We might be able to take a shorter route but they want a 30' wide strip cut through my woods which includes a portion of 20 yr old pine plantation and 50 yr old oaks. That will not happen. even after doing that it would maybe cut only a couple hundred feet off the power run. And its not just the power but if I add total cost to get a paddlewheel or surface aerator and electricity I am looking at 13 to 15 thousand. I may be wrong or I may be to late before I get something done but I need to run down the cost of a generator and or solar with battery pac. And which aerator works best paddlewheel or Kasco 3 to 4 hp surface aerator.

PS, first time I ran the Kasco diffusers it helped to clear up the heavy blooms but not so much this year. Or maybe without the diffusers I would be looking at a worse situation. Right now I am looing at a 9 to 10" bloom that will not quit!

I don't know if you need the air to run 24/7 for the number of fish you have but as soon as our water temp is at 60*F we run the air 10pm to 10am. First this gets the air in the pond during the plankton crash over night because there is little to no light. Secondly it keeps the pond cooler with the cooler night time temps.

I did learn about our third year the running the air 24/7 would heat the pond even being 16 feet deep up to the air temps average. If you are seeing 90+ degree days your water temp will be that.

Our perch shut off eating after the water temp gets over 75. I am guessing they just don't need the energy at that temp.

I found an AirPro mobile generator at a local pawn shop they are asking $8,500 says he will take 8,000 for it. I passed on the deal and will keep looking. The pond might be getting better as I had 11" visibility yesterday around noon. I still need to make plans and get it done if I want to meet my pond goals.

Dono, everyone around here I talk to suggest I stay at 24/7 on the aerator.

We cut ours back after I spoke with Bill. I was told to look at the rocks on the edge of the pond and if there was bubbles on them. Our whole pond had small bubbles on all the rocks. We were over aerating the pond and had the water temp rise over 80 just like you.

I think one of the contributing factors of too much green water is that I cut down quite a few 7' tall willows(30 or so) along the bank at one end of the pond. I left them in the water to add cover to or for small cnbg and now I am thinking the decomposition of these trees has hurt me, along with other factors from heavy rains. I am going to pull those out today if I can.

Have you stopped the feeders? If you have a tractor you can get a PTO generator if this is just a temporary thing, or even get a PTO paddle wheel.

I wonder if in hot weather a person could move the air stations to slightly shallower water to leave a couple feet cool refuge on the bottom?

We talk about moving air stations to shallow water in winter to keep from super cooling, so why not in the hottest part of summer move the stations up a couple feet of pond depth so there is some cool water left in the deepest areas and prevent super heating?

I would prefer to keep the water moving and moving the diffusers up to keep some cool water rather than shut them off part of the day. I have no experience doing this, just seems like the right approach.

If you move the air stations shallow then the deeper cool water will have little to no DO very quickly in the above situation.

True. But don't the fish use the interface of the thermocline? I thought in lakes fish hang out there at times.

Doesn't shutting off the air stations part of the day have the effect of a thermocline starting to establish, thus creating cooler water below?

John, I'm also looking at installing electricity out at my place.

Here's my questions: First, would it make any difference if the electric line was buried? In such a case, could they cut down fewer trees?

Second, assuming normal poles, how would this affect plans of controlled burn of underbrush? Apparently doesn't harm pines, but clears weeds, thistles, very small trees, etc. Should I try to get burn done before Upshur Electric comes out? Normally such burns are only conducted during winter, but perhaps it can be managed in summer.

What about switching to diverse style of diffusers? Not set up with a "boil" to move water so much as put air into the water column. The goal would be to aerate the lower water, but more or less leave the thermocline intact. Is that possible?

Tracy sorry to hear about your heating up/phytoplankton bloom...I dealt with that last year and just escaped cataclysmic events by the short hairs I suspect.

I know running electricity to the pond isn't cheap, but it's one of the best things I ever did for my fishery. Just by $.02

Normally, light controlled burns won't affect new poles, but you would need to make sure they don't catch fire at the base.

To bury a line, the cut needs to be only as wide as needed for the trencher. Normally, buried primary line at 7.2 to 14.4 kV requires a 48" trench to ensure the required 42 inches of cover. It needs to be reasonably straight, but can meander a little to avoid large trees.

It can be as expensive or more so than a pole line of the same distance, it varies. An electric cooperative, as a non profit, needs to collect enough revenue off a line extension to pay back the cost over the life of said line extension, usually figured as 30 years. Pond aeration likely won't generate enough revenue, and would very likely be considered a transient usage by the co-operative's policies. You would likely be asked to pay full cost or nearly full cost.

TJ, did you start aeration in your ponds? At one time, I thought you were not aerating. I take it you have the pump down by the pond, as opposed to running air lines down to a pond, and keeping the pumps up in a barn. I've got to run 900' to get air or elec to my bow.. Still deciding what to do. (Sorry for hijack.)

Yes I now aerate after 8 years. I've had power to the pond for 7 years but had to run it 2500' from the road to my parcel at $4.50/ft. One could run air up to 1000' IIRC from aeration experts.

Ok, in the back of my mind I was thinking/hoping, maybe I wouldn't need to. I know I do, as I've got lots of fish in one acre, and lots of trees dumping lots of leaves every fall..
thx

I plan to aerate too, if I can ever stop the seeps and make the pond worth doing aeration. Right now the pond is a hassle due to the seepage, and needing to pump every time it rains enough to make the creek flow.

Thanks, John. I'm gonna check out a buried line, as 30 feet of clearance will really take out a lot of trees.

BrianL, yes I have pinched back the feeders to a 2 second throw in the early morning and a 1 second and two second throw in the evenings. That's 3 TH feeders at one per acre. Like I said earlier, I have cut back on the feeding this past few months because of my past experience with 12" green water during the hot summer months. I am still seeing heavy blooms even after cutting back on the feeding this past few months. The last two years I would have been feeding at 15 second throws 3 times per day.

I had to replace the sparkplug on the Honda pump and we are back and running the Big Sprinkler. The problem is I am not there to have it running at dusk and at dawn. Not sure how much the sprinkler helps but makes me feel a little better than nothing being done. It is an irrigation sprinkler and kicks out a lot of water, all the Honda 160 pump will pump.

Tj, I may bite the bullet on the power line before it is all over and done with but I am still looking into a generator with propane fuel.

DIY aeration isn't expensive and provides a huge benefit in water quality. I'm going to introduce a bacteria program starting next year also to help reduce eutrophication effects over many seasons. Buying years back on the pond.

Update - its been a week and the green water visibility remains at 11" with a couple of times it was checked at 9" sushi visibility. After talking to Todd Overton and discussing surface aeration along with the Kasco diffusers I have running, it was suggested I need a D O Meter. I need to know the dissolved oxygen numbers before I go out and throw more money around, and which direction to go from here. It made sense to me, kinda of like DAH! I order a kit from Pentair Aquatics, spoke to their tec depart but I think I got a new tec, he was not familiar of Kasco diffusers. We also discussed paddlewheels, he suggested three 1hp paddlewheels for my pond. Todd recommended two of the two hp paddlewheels. Todd's recommendation makes more since. less equipment to hook up, more agitation for the buck, two motors cheaper than three, and less repair, fewer parts etc. Ad the D O meter will arrive here Tuesday. Fish count at the feeders remain low in numbers, but the pond is loaded right no with all kinds of fry and I feel like the fish are feeding on the fry also right now.

High heat reduces feeding as well.

Yep. By this time last year, feeding at my BOW had tapered off quite a bit. This year it is still going strong, probably due to more rain and lower average temperatures.

OK! Things are kinda coming together in my mind and in the pond. Once again, going back to the last PB Magazine where the green water article said you want 12" visibility I am starting to feel a little better about it all, maybe because I am still a little unsure about it all but I am passing this along so I might learn more and maybe others might pick up a little information as well. Please add to this if you want to share.

The DO meter arrived and I was at the pond at 7 this morning and had the probe in the water by 7:30. The probe has a 9' cable, so that's the deepest I checked. 6 diffusers running 24/7, sushi reading at 9am was 11.5"

DO @ 9' in 12' water showed 5.6mg/l or 76% water temp at 9' 83.6F
Do @ 9' in 10' water had 3.4 mg/l , raised probe a foot and had 5.6mg/l The very bottom foot had lower DO number.
Do @ 6' in 6' water had 5.6 mg/l water temp 84F at 6' depths.
Do @ 3' in 3' water had 5.6mg/l water temp 84F
DO @ 1' in all of the above water depths was 6.4 water temp was 84F
DO @ 1' in 1' of water along the shoreline was 4.1 as the water temps raised to 85.6

The water has been getting better and better as far as how the water looks all shiny and such. It has never looked dull but was a pea green about 3 weeks ago with suchi readings at 9" most days.

Water temps are high at 84 degrees F at 7:30 am and the temps are at all water depths due to the diffusers. I did see lower DO numbers in the air columns rising from the diffusers a 3.4 mg/l in the 10 water depths. This is most likely due to raising water off bottom where the lower DO number matched the bottom foot DO. I was not able to measure the DO on bottom in the 12 depths due to short cable.

6.1mg/l was at the surface except for the shoreline and 7.5 if I recall was the atmosphere prior to dropping the probe.

Any thoughts on where a 5.6mg/l or 76% is when it comes to oxygen level in warm water?

Will, its been a few days since I started monitoring the DO and temps and sushi readings in the pond during early morning. In the past five days the water temp has moved up to 85F from 84 and the DO has dropped to a 5.5 from a 5.6 but I did have a day of 6.1 readings just a couple of days ago. The water visibility is getting better with 12" reading a couple days ago and an 14" reading this morning. And this morning, for the first time in about 3 weeks, I saw HSB feeding on the surface (eating TFS I suspect). I also saw the cnbg feeding improving to where it is about 50% of the norm. It looks like the worst of it has passed with only a couple of HSB floaters and that may have been due to me adding some HSB to the pond during the beginning of this heavy bloom. It was not my plans to add HSB to the pond at the beginning of this bloom but it is how it worked out.

I wet a hook this morning to get a look sample of the lmb. I did not catch a lmb and suspect they are slow due to the water temps being so hot, but I managed to catch an HSB while plastic worm fishing. I horsed it in and returned it to the water asap. This hsb was in the 14" range and so I am hoping it will survive the short fight. I purposely used a plastic worm fished Texas style hoping to avoid the HSB. So much for THAT idea, but the hsb looked really healthy. Hope I don't find it floating tomorrow. I think it will be ok.

I continue to look into getting elec to the pond for paddle wheels. It seams I can get a 8500 wht generator but having trouble finding someone that will service it if needed later on.

Tracy, how do you monitor raw fish readings? (sushi)

It would be more efficient fuel wise to run the paddle wheel with a gas engine, rather than run an electric paddle wheel with a generator, unless the generator is very temporary and the paddle wheel is shortly to be run by public electricity service.

Ha ha ha one bite at a time lol ck spelling

John I am sure u r correct about a gas engine being more efficient. I am looking into my options now. I found a diesel powered generator(air pro) for 8 grand. It's more than I want to spend but I like the idea of it being mobile. Also looked at a PTO tractor driven system but its to small for a 3+ acre pond. Another thing I don't like is the paddlewheel surface aeration system may require electrical wiring to be in the water. John, u seem to be very knowledgeable about such things. I suspect surface aeration may be necessary during the heat of the summer or June through Sept. it's what might be necessary when attempting to grow numbers of large lmb in a 3+ acre pond. Ideas and out loud thinking welcome

Tracy
Have you looked into a Miller gas welding machine/ generator for about $ 4 k
11000 watts

That is not a bad idea Pat. The 2 -2hp paddlewheels will use around 4800 watts if I understand it correctly. And to add the Miller onto a trailer it could be moved around to other ponds that might come into play at some future dates. Thanks Pat

Update, The pond is looking good. Visibility is back to 18" of an Olive green color. The oxygen levels are now running 8.8mg/l through out the pond. Last week the water just started clearing up. It took around 3 days where visibility went from 9" pea green to 18" of visibility. I ran an outboard engine to move water around and to form a volcano for surface aeration. I would move the boat around to all parts of the pond and put the nose of the boat against the bank and run the engine in forward gear around 3,000 rpm(I'm guessing). I did this for several days. I also ran an irrigation sprinkler 2 to 4 hrs per day to assist in surface aeration. And the diffusers ran 24/7.

I lost a couple of hsb(that I could see) and the cnbg are once again feeding at the feeders. Water temps are now at 85 to 86F.

All I can say is thanks for ya'll help,

So any idea on what you can do to prevent this from happening again? Sounded like you were doing everything to prevent this and it still happened. Too many fish caused by too much feed? Fish #s ok, but too much feed? I have backed down on the feed I am throwing this year. NO real reason other than they weren't feeding real good when the water was turbid earlier in the year, when water cleared I never increased time as their feeding increased. Last year I was feeding 80-90 seconds per day(6-7#s), this year 36 seconds per day(3#s), plus what I hand throw on occasion.

Glad things worked out. Try to establish what caused the improvement as you may need it again. Was the water from the irrigation sprinkler chlorinated ? If so that may be a part of the plankton reduction process. Plankton often runs in cycles and this cycle may be over but it could come back. I still do not think it is a temp problem as those fish can take 90 F + temps. Good alkalinity and a plankton bloom usually improves DO in a pond. The most important part of pond mgt is learning what is going on and adapting to your water.

I have a small sediment pond to catch all the sand that comes into the big pond when we get large rain events. I tossed in some fhm's last year and feed the minnows daily by hand tossing. This fertilized the water and after going through a drought on the pond this last year, the water was pretty green and high in nutrients. Lots of FHM's also. We had a really good rain event and flushed the pond into the big pond. The large dense bloom started just days after that event. I have had many blooms in the pond, some by fertilizing and some natural. I did not fertilize this year because the water looked to be almost perfect the whole year(lack of cold winter, I'm guessing).

I still have a few fhm's in the sediment pond but I will not feed them again and fertilize that water. They will have to survive the natural way.

Eric, the water sprinkler using the Honda pump, would pick up water from the five foot water depths from the pond and then spray. I also ran the water well, but after seeing the two floating hsb and where it was suggested, may have been caused by water temp change, I backed off the water well to every other day during this event. I was looking for dilution at the time.

How big is the sediment pond (water vol) vs the big pond ? Some marginal food excess in a small pond should not overcome the vol in the big pond absent unusual conditions.

The sediment pond is smaller now than it was when built. It has trapped a lot of sand since it was built. Pond is 30x45'x6' when the large rain event flushed the pond into the larger pond. The water in the sediment was fertile with a strong green tent to the water. I guess it is possible that a soybean wildlife food plot at the top of the hill might be the cause or the clover food that grows on the side of the hill might contribute to that strong bloom, Both of these plants introduce nitrogen into the soils where run off into the pond might do it. I never fertilize these food plots and rotate soybean so winter food plots enjoy that nitrogen.

If not the sediment pond then I am not sure at this point what started such a strong bloom that ran over a course of around 3 weeks, most blooms I had seen before lasted a week or so.

Gather as many facts (info) as possible and write them all down. Keep an open mind and don't let any early conclusions stop the fact gathering. As for the crops/clover etc there is a measurement on how far those nutrients may move. I would be shocked if they were the cause but write them down anyway. Truth is it may be a combination of factors.