Hey guys,

I always searched for a source to find out how cold up North Florida Bass would survive. When i asked pond people about it , they mostly said "They won't survive under long lasting ice". Then i found this.

The ponds were continuously covered with ice more than 6 inches thick for several weeks during December 1983 through January 1984. We saw two dead bass under the ice in Bass Pond during this period. Approximately four 1- to 2-pound bass were found dead in Bass Pond during March 1989, presumably due to cold stress. Until 1994, no other bass die-offs were documented in either pond.


6 inches ice for several weeks and they survived? Really?

Source: http://www.noble.org/ag/wildlife/bass/

Just remember, 6" thick ice doesn't happen overnight and it doesn't melt away overnight either.

I don't get your point Scott. Is it worse for the fish if ice forms or melts overnight?

Hi Fatih,

I'm not a pro but I think there is a big difference between just surviving and actually thriving. Southern strain fish have the advantage of a longer growing season than the Northern varieties. If you put a Florida LMB up North, and it managed to survive, I would think the cold stress and short growing season could actually make it underperform when compared to a Northern.

Again, I'm not a pro...just my 1 cent

There are several studies where Fla strain LMB had near 100 % fatalities in northern ponds in Wisconsin and Minn and high death rates in other northern states. In no northern states did they do well .

Bill , i definitely agree with you. In fact i found some sources stating Florida Bass wasn't any larger in size than regular bass, in Northern Ponds. Even this article i shared claims it.

Ewest, this article is about some Oklahoma ponds. There is no doubt they will be dead before christmas in Wisconsin.

Yes I have read the OK study several times . It is one that helped set the northern limits for Fla bass . IIRC the fish did survive mostly but growth was average to poor .

So Ewest what is your conclusion? How far up North will they survive? More importantly can you define a temperature zone limit for them?

I may be wrong, but I think it's roughly the Mason-Dixon line that is the boundary. It all depends on elevation and micro-climate too.

With regards to my "6 inches of ice" comment, it takes a prolonged cold spell for 6" of ice to form. If there is no snow, a week of temps in the single digits "F" will do it, or a much longer period of time below freezing but between 20°F and 32°F. They will survive and grow perfectly well in your climate, even with some ice forming on the pond.

Have you ever seen ice thick enough there for people to walk on?

Scott, you were right all that time... According to all these information, my region suits them perfectly. Here a body of water won't be frozen for more than maybe 2 days. They almost always melt back in day time. And you can't step on it without breaking it.

Ardmore Oklahoma is in 7B zone. I am in 8B, which is a significant difference.

I would have liked to try some of Overton's LMB but after reading various discussions here on PBF about their northern limits I figured me being slightly north of the OK,KS border I was too far north for them to thrive. They might survive, but very unlikely to be a better choice than locally sourced native northern LMB.

snrub,
I think the Florida LMB need to be south of the 34th parallel, and at fairly low altitude, to do well. That's roughly about at the Oklahoma-Texas border. Speaking generally of the south central and southeastern USA.

side note....I'm in Texas but I prefer and mainly stock northern bass because I've read they are less hook shy and I am after quantity and guests catching more fish.

John, i know places at 37th parallel, where it is sub-tropical and even Tilapias survive.

And another funny thing is that my city is at 37th too and altitude is 2500 ft. And it is 8B here. Much warmer than Ardmore.(Ardmore is only 750 ft altitude and 34th parallel)


World is so weird...

I was speaking generally of the south central and southeastern USA. I will edit my previous response.

From a previous thread:

There is little to no proof that outbreeding depression applies to Fla/North crosses whether they are F-1 , 2 or FXs (all referenced as integrades) in there natural integrade zone .


Status of Subspecies as of 2011 subject to change:
Florida Largemouth Bass and the Northern Largemouth Bass were once considered to be subspecies. Many state fisheries agencies still consider them to be subspecies and treat them as such, often stocking “Florida strain largemouth” on top of the native Largemouth Bass stocks. Although the American Fisheries Society (AFS) also officially still recognizes them as subspecies, biologists specializing in the field are calling for them to be separated into two distinct species: Florida Bass and Largemouth Bass. This is based off genetic studies that suggest that the genetic variation between Florida Bass and Largemouth Bass . A natural intergrade zone occurs where the two species’ ranges meet and overlap in the deep southeast. Artificial intergrade zones exist where state agencies have stocked Florida Bass over Largemouth Bass for decades.

Interesting, as I have been wondering about the possibility of stocking tiger bass next year. I am located on the Iowa/Missouri border so I would think I'd be pushing it, although it's still considered the Mason/Dixon line! With them being a cross with a northern I would think that would help with their cold tolerance. I was actually going to try and get ahold of American Sport Fish and get their opinion here in the next few days. I know the website is down, not sure if I can email them, probably have to find the phone number.

Slurp, according to my non-scientific research and from what i heard from Scott(Esshup) F1 Bass is not any more cold tolerant than the Florida strain.

I've been looking into it but haven't found much info. I have seen online where people as far north as I am have stocked them but then nobody said how hey did. I don't want to hijack this thread so I'll start a new one to see what I can find out.