Supposed to be 70 here on Friday. I know I'm early, but I've got time..
I want to place branches around the bank for YP spawning. I had the top blow out of a big red oak last fall. Lots of long branches 12-15' long. 3-4" diameter at the base. Still have leaves attached. I was going to place a branch about every 20' as I go around the pond. Extend the smaller branches out with the base near the bank.
Should I secure them some way? I don't want them all floating out in the middle with the next big rein.
Also, I wasn't going to lay them on the dam. That's the northern bank, ok?
I may have as many as 1,200 YP in this 1 ac BOW, not sure. They are very elusive. I caught 30 nice ones last fall, and haven't seen another since. Hopefully they didn't die off after stocking.
Any suggestions? 20' apart ok? Probably have 75 branches total..
Thx
Jeff

Edit.. I plan on pulling all the branches back out after spawning.

I lay a flat piece of concrete or a brick on the base of the branch that is on the bank. The weight helps holds down the end in the water. You don't need to have the branch extend out very far into the pond - usually 4ft to 7ft max. Twigs closer to shore allow you to better see egg ribbons. YP prefer the shallower locations for eggs because this results in warmer water for quicker egg hatch. For your first YP spawn you can place branches 30-50 ft apart to see which shoreline is preferred for laying eggs in your pond layout. Then in later years use the 10ft to 20ft branch separation pattern.

You do not need to have all branches in the pond early. Once you see which shoreline is preferred then add remaining branches to that general area.

Bill, could you elaborate on how dense the branches have to be to encourage YP to use them?

i.e. 1"-2" diameter branches from the top of an Oak Tree vs. tops of a River Birch Tree that are down to 1/8" diameter and relatively dense?

Will the YP use the branches if the individual tree branches are a foot to 3 feet apart, or will they be more attracted to branches that are more closely together like branches from a bush?

Yellow perch are known to readily lay eggs on spruce and pine branches, both natural and artificial. I have seen YP growers intertwine YP egg ribbons for hatching on artificial evergreen branches. I have good success getting YP to place eggs on leafless branches that are what I call "twiggy" with numerous small stems (1/16 to 1/8" dia). I think the small twiggy stems on branches are preferred by perch compared to widely spaced larger stems such as in walnut, cottonwood, or ash trees. The small twiggy abundant stems provide numerous attachment points for the female YP to attach the egg ribbon that is then pulled/extruded from her body. Good examples of twiggy trees are hard maple, apple, plum, dogwood, redbud, lilac. Bare shrub branches are also often good substrates. I have seen YP egg ribbons interlaced among last year's stems of emergent vegetation. If stems and branches are not available the perch will extrude the egg ribbon and eventually deposit eggs on the bare pond bottom or among the rocky shoreling. I think the male YP are fertilizing the egg ribbon as it is extruded from the female.

Wow, thank you so much! Great information for a rookie (me) so very helpful.
I will use shorter branches, and fewer at first. The south side if the pond is entirely in shade, so I am thinking they will use the east or west sides. Both have shallow areas, and get some sun. (Not a lot due to shading of near by trees.)
I'll space some trees out all around. Then add where appropriate.

Hopefully having leaves on the branches doesn't cause a problem. I'll also get a water temp tomorrow.

Thank you again!

Jeff

You can try several methods and report to us your results. In Missouri with an early spring warm up, you may see YP egg ribbons as soon as last week of February or first week of March. Monitor your water temperatures and when in the steady 48F-50F range you should see eggs. What is your water clarity?

Great info for all !! So rookie please do as Bill says and keep us old boys still learning informed.
Bill, how about a heads up from you when ya see your first ones? Also, tell Korn king he drives like a Blue haired old lady.

I will follow up on this thread, as progress is made. Once again, thank you (Bill and Scott) for all the guidance.
I was at the pond this evening. Small problem. 1.5" of ice. That makes it tough to get branches placed. I can't get to the thermometer its frozen in beneath the ice.
However, we have at least two weeks of warm weather coming, so I'll have branches down, just in case.

I stack piles of branches on the ice. For me they stick together as a pile and eventually sink from the weight above the water line. Eventually they decompose enough to sing under the water completely
(a few years later). I had YP eggs last year, but hey were not fertilized. I am hoping some males from the small ones I added last year will be mature enough to fertilize this years eggs.

RAH, please forgive my ignorance but how could you tell they were not fertilized? Do the eggs change color or change their features as they are fertilized? Or as the little ones form can you see them in the eggs?

Do GSH or other predators eat the eggs or young as they are trying leave the egg?

How long till the young leave the eggs, and what happens to the empty egg ribbons?

I had several young pears succumb to fireblight a couple years back and used them for YP spawning. I wanted the option to easily remove them, so I drilled a hole in the base, attached a wire through the hole and to a t post anchored in the bank to keep everything in place. This set up has worked well.

Brook, that sounds like a great idea. I think I will try that.

I posted pictures of the eggs here and experts confirmed that they were not fertile due to the lack of a dark spot in the center of each egg.

I placed pretty long, branches all around the pond yesterday. The temps were in the 50s by the time I left, the ice was melting fairly quickly.
The idea for the longer branches was that much of the branch was up on the bank, but I still had 8 to 10' of the branch section out in the water. Hopefully they won't move.
I didn't place branches on the dam.
Supposed to be in the 70s today, I imagine I'll lose most of my ice.
I did break through the ice and retrieved my thermometer, water temp at 15' from shore and 12" deep is 36 degrees.
I'll go by Sunday to see how the branches are "staying put" with the ice thaw, and wind.
I may need more stakes etc..
Hopefully I'll see those ribbons soon!

With ice now leaving and water at 36F you are IMO about 10-16 days away from seeing yellow perch eggs. Monitor your water temperatures. However last year when ice melted later than normal, I did see the first egg ribbon 9 days later when surface water was 43F; in coldest water that I have ever seen the 1st YP eggs.

Ice will be gone Sunday, for sure. I'll check surface temps. It seems like the water stays a bit cooler in this pond. Maybe it's because last summer, was its first summer.
It was on the cooler side last summer, which was ok with me,, in August.
Might be a different story this summer now that it's on its second summer. (Not sure how age could be any factor, but the big lake a mile west of us (17,000 ac Mark Twain lake) was warmer than our little one ac pond.

Probably unnecessary worry, but how long from when I see ribbons, to when the fry swim away? (If I need to pull branches and egg ribbons out.)

My worry is that I've got 1300 YP in this one acre pond. If they all spawn, I'll have WAY too many YP.. I've got some SMB, and YSB, to help control them. Can I have too many?

If I see 1000s of egg ribbons, should I just pull the branches out? Don't want more in the pond, than it can support.

YP YOY will be hammered hard, and remember their fusiform body shape lends them to high predation rates even at age 1 and beyond. Managing excessive populations of YP, which I doubt you'll experience, is easy through angling and traps. I doubt 1% of all YP offspring make it through year 1 in presence of predator base of YP and SMB provided the BOW doesn't consist of extremely dense vegetation cover. Let the fishery tell you which direction to take - it will become readily apparent this season and those following what corrective management strategies you need to employ, if any.

I read somewhere recently that YP are relatively slow swimming which makes them easy prey. Anybody have comments on that statement?

IMO YP don't swim any slower than sunfish or even juvenile bass. For your 1 acre,,, 6-10 egg ribbons should be enough to provide a good year class of 2016 YP providing you are not over abundant with SMbass. Do you also have other forage fish such as shiners and crayfish?

If we use TJ's theory of 1% survival, 10 egg ribbons with a average 20,000 eggs each results in about 200,000 fry. The 1% survival is 2000 fingerlings and 0.5% survival is 1000 fingerlings which are probably too many 2016 recruits for your 1 ac pond.

1% was a WAG - listen to Bill and Cecil on all things yp related they are the pioneers and experts. I have never seen a fishery with YP population management issues provided there's a predator presence and not excessive vegetation present - but Bill's seen a lot more YP fisheries than I have.

I have grass shrimp, and some crayfish. We also stocked GS, but many were caught and died in grass netting (erosion matts) I had placed around the pond edges. My FHM population is still fairly significant. I have very little plant growth around the edges. Cover so far is submerged cedar trees and artificial structure I've made from PVC pipe, lots of sunken pallets, and 8" Rock. I think I'll be watching pretty closely on the ribbons. If I see too many I'll pull branches and ribbons out.
Once again, really appreciate the advice. I probably need to use the electric shock etc., to find out what the fish density is.
Unfortunately, I'm not the most accomplished fisherman, hard to tell how many fish have survived the initial stocking..

I don't think the YP will respond very well to an electroshock survey since YP remain deep near or on the bottom where electroshocking is not effective. Best sampling IMO for your particular situation is various types of angling, larger traps, maybe a large seine survey, and observation during feeding times.

It is possible that not a lot of the 1000 YP you stocked did not survive. 1000 adult YP in a 1ac pond should not be hard to catch. Although there are good and not so good ways to fish for YP. The number of egg ribbons that you see this spring will be a good indication of how many females that you have present. Number of male YP should be at least the same number of egg ribbons that you see assuming egg ribbons are well fertilized. You will not see all the YP egg ribbons. Not all female YP will lay ribbons. For a reasonable estimate of female YP numbers, add 25% to the number of ribbons that you see. Double that total number for the number of males. This should give you a good guess as to the number of adult YP present within 10-20%. Note that often YP are sorted by size and buying only one size class of YP from a fish farm may have a disproportionate number of one sex.


If you get PBoss magazine reread and implement my two fish sampling methods describes in the articles:
May-Jun 2015 SAMPLING YOUR POND FISH. Part 1. Cody details three simple methods he used to sample and compare the fisheries in 13 ponds.
Jul-Aug 2015 SIMPLE FISH SAMPLING RESULTS. Part 2. Cody presents the results of a simple fish sampling study used in 13 test ponds.

If you perform a few of the basic fish sampling methods and keep records of everything you catch, then over time you will have a real good assessment of what is present in your pond and how the fishery is progressing.

I've got those two issues. I will go back over them.
I've tried several different angling approaches. Had a hot streak last fall. Caught 30 nice ones in two days. Then it went quiet. I mean zero.
There are not that many hitting the feeder when it goes off. Maybe an additional 20 to 40. I try not to be negative, but I just struggle a bit. I just can't imagine there are still 1,300 YP left in there. My trap catches tadpoles, no matter what I do, but I don't think I'm getting it down deep enough. Same with a drop net. Catching zero.
I'll read those back issues, and see what I can come up with.
Thanks

Catching 30 YP then nothing suggests to me that the overall number are not there. Were the 30 YP you caught released or harvested? When YP are abundant in a 1 acre or less pond you can always catch then with worms or minnows fished along the bank in 4-6 ft of water. IF you have 1000 YP per acre you should be able to just about catch YP any time you fish with live bait except mid-summer.
Have you tried trapping some FHM and using them for bait?

We have to remember this pond has only one year class of YP in it and has not had spawn. Once you see the abundance of egg ribbons this will provide a fairly good relative estimate of fish density. Traps for YP do not need to be set deep. If YP are present with IMO an adequate YP density you should be able to catch them in larger traps set 2.5 to 4 ft deep especially during spawn season. YP move close to the shoreline seeking groceries. YP do not eat tadpoles although reproducing SMB will eliminate tadpoles when minnows are scare or uncommon. An abundant population of FHM also suggests low numbers of adult YP. IMO 300-500 YP per acre will fairly quickly reduce the numbers of FHminnows especially those 1" to 1.5" individuals during fall, winter and spring until the FHM spawn. Surviving SMB should also be preying heavily of the larger FHM. What do you estimate the numbers of SMB to be?. You catching SMB while fishing for YP? How big are your SMB you catch?

I was using some trapped FHM for bait when I caught the 30. I was still thinking I had over 1,000 more YP in the pond, so I kept every one.
I continued to use FHM, and worms, but zero hits. Seemed fewer at the feeder also.
I can't recall the exact # of SMB, and HSB I added, but they were stocked October 10. The YP, RES, and GS, were stock back in April. My notes are at the pond. I went with pretty low #s on the SMB and HSB.
I'll look for ribbons pretty soon. After reading your comments, I'm thinking I'm missing about 1,000 YP. I've had kingfishers, GH, and GBH working the pond. I was thinking they were taking FHM, and maybe a few GS, but maybe they cleaned out my YP.

you went low...62 SMB stocked, but I don't recall HSB numbers...

I doubt Kingfishers got many, if any YP....YP like the deeper areas.

FWIW from the experience I've had so far, cormorants are the only bird I've had on my pond that would be a real threat to YP IMO. The GBH and GH seem to stick to shallow water and the king fisher sticks to pretty small fish. The cormorants dive to the bottom and can stay under water an incredible amount of time.

That's what I was hoping. If I'm missing a thousand YP, it'll be the mystery of the century.

Wonder if I had someone come by with a big net, stretched it end to end, and cleaned out the whole pond.

Your pond will be very difficult to seine due to placement of all your fish structure. You may have had poor survival of stocked YP who often sink when they die. I've had a cage of YP die and they were all lying on the bottom.

[quote=Bill Cody]Your pond will be very difficult to seine due to placement of all your fish structure. You may have had poor survival of stocked YP who often sink when they die. I've had a cage of YP die and they were all lying on the bottom.

Very possible. I might have eaten the few remaining YP I had. Oh well. It is what it is. Hate to think they all died after stocking, but that may be the case.
Interesting twist in this thread. I was concerned about too many YP this morning, now I'm hoping for any ribbons at all.

Don't throw in the towel yet. It's barely ice off, let things warm up a bit and I'm bettin you're gonna see some ribbons. They say patience is virtue.

+1

I should have trusted my instincts. I looked at 100s and 100s of dead fish when I received the fish, due to a water issue.
I kept hoping that the rest would be fine. I kept asking why only a few were feeding. I was reassured the rest were feeding below the surface.
Looks like the 30, I foolishly caught and kept, were the sole survivors. Works out to $66 a fish.
The worst part is I've got my grandson all excited to come up and catch 1,000 YP that are supposed to be 10".. I doubt there's 50 left..

Don't get to discouraged just yet. Our yellow perch will not bight through the ice. I do not know why or if we need to use different bait but no go from Nov to a week or two after ice out.

After the ice is out and the water gets warmer and after spawn we can't keep them off the hook.

Cheers Don.

Well, the fact that we were still seeing clouds and clouds of FHM right up until the pond iced over, means that they were not being targeted by predators. Which means to me that no predators were present. Hard to put into words how much this bothers me.
I've wasted a lot of time and money. My thoughts are now to just go to a BG and LMB stocking plan. Just like 99% of the rest of the ponds in Missouri.
I can buy the fish a few miles from the pond, put them in myself, and know they are healthy.

I know you are feeling pretty down man but hang in there. Even if you only have 50 or 100 left, they can spawn this spring and make an incredible number of newbies.

I am confused about the mortality you experienced at initial stocking. You mentioned a water quality issue. Can you provide some more detail on what happened?

Any sign of the HSB and SMB? If yes, are they big enough yet to prey on your adult YP?

I doubt that you caught everyone of the YP that were present in 1 acre. Some were surely in other areas of the pond away from those caught. One well fertilized egg ribbon will provide lots & lots of YP fry who should have high survival if relatively few predators are present. The YP fry will grow very good with lots of minnows present. The presence of lots of minnows means optimal food for remaining fish and new hatchlings. Allow the water to warm up to 50F then 60F. Resume light pellet feeding when water reaches 50F. Then increase amount fed as water approaches 60F or when fish are quickly consuming the initial offering. Build and use a larger fish trap. The number of egg ribbons, the feeding, and trapping will provide a good idea of what fish remain. Don't be discouraged until you are better able to assess your fishery. Don't add LMB until you are positive the YP are not present. A few surviving fish will grow very well and can quickly repopulate a pond that is full of small forage fish (FHM). Have some patience. Use restocking of additional species as a last resort until you can more accurately assess the current fishery.

I agree with Cody.

Cecil saw tons of FHM in his large pond with a healthy population of large YP in it.

Many times I field phone calls from people that fear that they don't have fish in their pond, or that they don't have enough fish in their pond. When the water changes temperature, or when they switch angling tactics, they start seeing or catching fish.

I received a phone call from a fish grower last year. He seined his pond 8 times and was sure that he got all the LMB out of his pond. His fish supplier said that unless the pond was killed with Rotenone, he would not furnish the LMB fingerlings to stock the pond (the grower was growing LMB on contract - he was just furnishing the pond and the labor to feed the fish).

Not only did fingerling LMB float up when I applied the Rotenone, (the LMB spawned at 1 year old, even when stocked at the rate of 5,000 fish per surface acre) there were 10" YP that came up, 3"-4" YP that came up, three 2# - 3# LMB that came up, and this LMB. Now, how did this LMB evade the seine that many times??





Pond owners have to remember, that even though the pond is a fixed size, there is still a LOT of area in a pond for fish to swim in, and then even if you find them, you still have to convince them to bite a baited hook. I can't tell you how many times I've sight fished, dropped a bait (either live or artificial) in front of a fish and they wouldn't open their mouth to take it.

It's my belief that there is no way that you fished all the YP out of your pond.

Regarding that LMB in the picture. Not only did it evade the seine numerous times, it was still able to swim fast enough to catch food, and grow. I think that the fish was stocked that way - the LMB were stocked in the pond 27 months prior to the Rotenone application. Previously the owner grew YP and did not rotenone the pond prior to stocking the LMB - he thought he seined all the YP out of the pond. There were maybe 10-20 YP that were 10"-12" that came up, and a couple hundred in the 3"-4" range when the pond was rotenoned. No other fish species besides those YP and the LMB.

I'll wait to see if I have any egg ribbons before I change any stocking patterns.
The SMB and HSB should be much smaller than the YP and RES, presenting no threat to them.
I'll start the feeder again when water temps hit 50. I never ran the feeder more than 4, one second runs. 90+% of the fish hitting the feed were FHM. They pushed the feed around until eaten, but lots of feed would end up on the bank.

I thought about going to 1 or 2 seconds per day, but there were some YP hitting the feed. I was told that the rest of the 1,100 YP were hitting the feed after it sank.

My perch are exceedingly notorious for not jumping on a hook. Either very hook shy, or they just seem to know. When it comes time for pellets near the dock, I see TONS of them. It is all very aggravating but fun at the same time.

Good call. Surely with all of the knowledgeable guys sayin it's more than likely ya have some YP left, as in Essups experience, ya only need a dozen or so YP ta have a nice spawn.
All of the guys that have encouraged ya ta hang will be expectin ya to have a PB gtg and fish fry July-10-18

If you are seeing floating feed along the pond edges you are feeding too much food. Wasted food usually deteriorates to eventually over fertilize the pond to grow excess FA. Shorten feeder times until no food ends at the shoreline. I don't believe rest of the YP were hitting the feed after it sank. Floating AM-500&600 rarely sinks as evidenced by feed floating to the shoreline. Uneaten AMax will float in my cages for 24 hrs.

Thanks Bill. When I resume feeding I'll try to shorten it. About the only thing I can do is go with one second per day. Either before sunrise, or shortly after sunset.
I was by the pond earlier today. The ice is completely gone. The water temp has climbed to 44 from 36 degrees. No ribbons on any branches. I will be back there on Wednesday, and check temps, and look for ribbons.
I'm still seeing 1,000s and 1,000s of bullfrog tadpoles. They never really hibernated, as I noticed them under the ice.
The pond is surrounded very closely by oaks, hickories, and hard maples. There is quite a layer of leaves on the bottom.
Thanks again

Bob-O, In July, if I have enough YP for a fish fry, I'm going to be one very happy camper, and I will gladly host a PB GTG!
I suspect I had a 90% mortality right after stocking. I'm going to hold off on why I think I had the 90% mortality until it's certain that I do.

Well, even with 90% mort and you hoggin down 30, you should still have around 70.

You still have a BUNCH of natural, easy to eat forage to feed all those YP in your pond also...

I have no doubt the vast majority are fine, and easily hitting that 10" mark, but if not, I'll replace them to your satisfaction!!! I'll be happy to come up there with the cast net and a pole to do a survey...GSH should be nice sized also now.

Seeing lots of FHM is normal also since YP are no where near as aggressive as young LMB. Your FHM will be around for years.

Rainman,

Did you stock the BNM and FHM mix at his place? If I ever get a big enough order for you to deliver to me, make sure you remind me to order some of those guys!

I strongly doubt you have experienced 90% mortality - I'm unclear on the reasons/details that lead you to this assumption. On my ponds, YP angling is most successful when they are shallow in Spring and Fall - but evening bite is also fairly reliable throughout the year including Summer and Winter. 1/32 oz jighead and small/medium FHM or crawler fished slowly on on or near bottom is a great method, as is a split shot 18" up from a octopus hook and FHM nose hooked if they are finicky. If your pond is full of forage, the YP are well fed and angling won't be as hot, but if you keep the bait in their zone, you should be catching YP this Spring.

I can go months without seeing YP hitting floating feed from June through September, then they're back at it in October like crazy. I can also go the same amount of time without catching a single YP. I've run the spectrum from assuming their population was wiped out due to poaching, GBH, Mink, predator fish, etc. - and they always reappear when I'm ready to give up. Once I bought my AquaVu mini cameras a couple years back it helped ease my concerns as I could see big YP routinely swimming around the dock - even though they weren't feeding on pellets and I wasn't sampling them through angling.

My advice is to take it easy - this is only year two since stocking, fisheries take time to establish and it takes patience and diligence to learn how to read your pond and fishery. Over the next few weekends try angling for YP using the tactics above or try something on your own - I would be very surprised if you start don't popping YP.

Yawzwaaa, PB gtg in 18 in Mizoo!!!

Is there a date for GTG yet? I need to let work know so I can take off. About dress code for the GTG....No speedos, right? !!!!!!

Sorry Billy, speedos are fine, just no pink uns.
Actually.... I believe a whole bunch of us would like ta converge at your Mutt pond.
Come on guys, chirp in on a gtg at Billys

Guys, I'm seriously hoping I've got more than 70 left.
However, I've thrown every color of jig, at every depth, I've floated worms at every depth, FHM at different depths, nets, all different times of days, the feeder ran at regular intervals right at sunrise and right at sunset. I've tried all of the above fishing techniques at different times of day.
I believe I've caught two additional YP since the 30 in two days. I did see a few hitting feed, but not more than 10 to 20 fish, which I suspected were YP. (I stopped the feeder when the water temp dropped below 50, and I have not started it up again.)

***If there are 1,100 to 1,300 additional YP in this pond, the July GTG will be epic!!
Speedos will be discouraged, but speedos would certainly be better than no speedos!

From previous posts from earlier in this thread, indicating that I should be seeing and or catching some YP, I'm not optimistic.. If YP are that difficult to track down and catch in a one acre pond, I'm going to have a difficult time getting grandkids very excited about fishing with Pops..

Edit, Rainman, I appreciate your response, I really do.

I'm in the same situation. I've put over 400 YP in a pond about 1/2 acre or so over the last 3 years. I had some recruitment the year before last but none I saw last year. I caught about 10 last fall in 2 days with the largest being 2 of them females about 12 inches long. I put them all back. I rarely catch one on anything the rest of the year. My pond stays pretty green and the visibility is generally less than 12 inches so that may be part of it. I've fished for them with worms and lures both deep and shallow with poor results. I have lots of FHM, especially small ones. I also have 25 SMB and 6 HSB which seem to keep BG recruitment down. My HBG are very aggressive and I'm trying to reduce their numbers whenever I have time to clean fish.

Apparently YP do not transfer well and have poor survival if water temperature is too warm maybe above 65F-70F. I've heard too many stories of YP dying after stocking when moved above 66F-70F. Be aware of this when stocking YP. I don't trust others to do my fish hauling, plus I want to pick up my YP as soon as they are collected from the grow out ponds. Sitting in a holding tank is very hard and stressful for ALL fish especially in the wrong temperature water. BG & CC are very "touchy" when handled in cold water. IMO and experience, some fish species 'prefer' to be moved in cold water (40F-55F-YP,WE,NP,trout), some prefer cool water(55F-60F,YP,SMB,GSH,FHM), some warmer(70+) water (BG,LMB,CC,HSB,tilapia). Prefer means fewest latent deaths after stocking.

Bill, I'm glad you posted this information. When my fish were delivered there were 100s of dead ones in the holding tanks. Apparently water was introduced into the tanks from a water source other than a pond. The fish kill was immediate. The offending water was flushed immediately. We tried to count dead fish, and estimate what percentage of the remaining fish were still alive. I have been curious since last April, when the 1,200+ perch were stocked if they survived. I have had very little luck with any technique in finding them. Very few ever came to the feeder. I did have a few weeks when the feeder was down, but I started it the day that the fish were stocked. Since then, I do not think I've seen more than 20 or 30 hitting the feed.
I found a few dead fish after stocking, but not many. The GSH survived stocking, I know that for sure. They immediately were caught in the nylon netting used for the grass mats. That's another story though.
I'm sure the water in my pond was cool enough in April, that it did not shock the fish, but I'm not sure they survived the water mishap the night before, when so many were killed.
Jeff

Considering the high stress of the stocker fish it is surprising that any survived despite them swimming away. Chemical and temperature shock stress are difficult for most all fish to overcome in the long term. They can swim away but survival is usually very poor.

Most YP sink as they die. My pond of YP is old enough that I loose numerous old big YP each year. I rarely see dead ones floating. Also others with perch in my area rarely see dead perch unless the fish had eaten food or pellets that cause gas, bloating, and then floating. IMO dead YP with empty stomachs rarely float. YP almost always rest idle on the bottom at night, thus I don't think they have as much air bladder buoyancy as many other fish.

I would talk to your YP supplier to see if they won't replace the YP at cost or a significant discount. Try to get two sizes 2"-4" and 5"-6" to have fish to make up for a poor year class that you are likely to get in 2016.

Thank you. This has been an eye opening few days..

Bill, I am the one that supplied the YP.

The fish were in great shape the night before delivery. I wanted to ensure fresh water while I slept that night, so at a client's place I was delivering the same YP batch Setterguy got, I went there to use well water to freshen the holding tanks. What I didn't know, was that the well water he had was filled with hydrogen sulfide gas. I'd foolishly lowered the tanks after checking that temps were good, and I smelled the sulfur smell too. What I didn't expect was how heavy the concentration was. The YP instantly got hit hard, but after cranking up the O2 to a rolling boil to gas off the Hydrogen Sulfide, the YP started coming back to life.

It was a given that several were going to die in a few days, and the Setterguy's pond was stocked with a couple hundred "extras" as well as charged for a couple hundred less than originally ordered. Still, if we can do a survey, He'll get whatever fish numbers and sizes he'd like this spring.

It's not the first time fish got killed, and it won't be the last, but as many know and have seen, I'll always make it right.

I still believe the vast majority of the 1400+ stocked, survived. I expected about 1000-1100 to survive. A survey sampling is needed to prevent an overstocking.

Rainman,
I wish you were in my neighborhood. I'd buy my fish from you in a heartbeat. It's pretty obvious that you're a stand up guy. And that's a precious commodity in business sometimes these days. Best of luck to all... Setterguy, I hope you get to announce a big gtg bash!

This thread went from "should I pull branches to prevent too many YP". To "Where did all my YP go?"
Rainman, once again, thank you for your post. Hopefully we can determine if there are any still in there. I wish I was a better angler. Those 30 YP I caught in two days last fall, were the only YP I've ever caught.
Hollywood, Rainman has been very fair to deal with. He's since sold me additional fish, and has treated my pond with alum. He's a great guy.
Once again, I really, really hope those fish survived! My grandson would like to catch something this summer. Starting over isn't my goal..

Ponds teach us many things, if we're paying attention. Patience is not one of my strongest traits. But... I'm learning it...

I would not be discouraged just yet. If the perch were in the pond when treated with alum there is a good reason they are not eating or hitting your bait.

Even if your PH is right your dissolved salts or electrical conductivity can be very very high. The water is like milk in away. It will not burn you or kill you but can strip paint off a table.

I am no expert on fish but when I treated my pond with alum and lime the fish disappeared for weeks. I could not keep a minnow trap in the pond with out it completely rotting to dust but my PH was 7.5.

Sulfur in water is very acidic as well as alum. I don't know how fast it would react with the fish's blood chemistry but it could take some time to flush the system.

Think back to when you caught the 30 if there was a weather event like high winds, heavy rain that could have flushed or diluted the pond water and temp.

Cheers Don.

The alum treatment was the previous fall/winter, before the fish were stocked (April)
Trying to think back on the "hot" days of fishing. Not sure if there was anything unique about those days. I'll be trying to catch them again soon. I'll try minnows again for sure, but I tried FHM many times after those good days. Nothing happening. I did catch some small HBG that I had added on my own mid summer. No YP.
I work continually on being patient. These YP were stocked almost ten months ago. I haven't seen too many since then. Last fall as the feeder went off, maybe 20 YP would be taking feed. It was never more than that. From April to October when I shut the feeder down. I caught the 30 in September. Then I had even fewer fish show up when the feeder went off. Just FHM by the millions.

Reminder.. We are talking about 1,400 YP in a one acre pond. Clouds of FHM swimming everywhere. Less than 30 fish rising to feeder. Feed floating to shore from 4 seconds of run time on the feeder. No evidence anywhere that these fish exist. The original stocking was 1,000 small YP and 100 larger (5") YP. To my untrained and inexperienced eye, I think the larger fish had some survivors. The ones I caught were all pretty good sized.
Wish I'd not have kept them..
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll280...4D33447EDD6.jpg

Temp is down to 40 degrees at the surface. 15' from the bank.
No ribbons, but at 40, I'm thinking its early. Supposed to be in the 60s this weekend.
No FHM around the floating pallets.
I did scare a pair of ducks off, not sure what they were, hoping for woodies.
Also scared two big gobblers out of nearby trees. I like them hanging around.
Lots of evidence of coons, deer, and fox. (Tracks)
Leak continues, slow and steady. Moved the branches for ribbons out a bit as water has dropped an inch or two.

If there are 1000 perch in a one acre pond near spawning time, it should be easy to catch YP. YP pre and post spawn are very hungry, aggressive, and easy to catch on most any type of bait. Yellow perch are said to be one of the easiest panfish to catch assuming the fish can see the bait, due to cloudy water, and it is not middle of summer during hot weather. In my experience YP become even easier than simple to catch when they are fed pellets since the perch always 'hang out' near the feeding area. Thus I tend to agree with SetterG that few YP are still present.

I caught the 30 this fall in the feeding area. Then They just stopped.
I'll try again Sunday. Going to warm up here quite a bit.

I would wait to fish them until after spawn. My thinking is, if the numbers are indeed limited, I would want to avoid any stress on the ones left until they spawned. There is always a risk when doing C&R to a fish.

I am not a pro.....Just my 1 cent

Makes sense. I'm sort of in a wait mode. If I don't get any ribbons,, well, I'm just not going to think about that. Ha!

After three days in the high 60s and lie 70s, I thought the temp might be up. Was at the pond yesterday. Water temp is up to 43. Clarity seems to have improved in spite of the wind, to close to three feet.
No YP ribbons yet on the branches. Lots and lots of tadpoles. Noticed a few dead frogs. Maybe they came out of hibernation too early, with the warm temps.
I did see my first huge school of FHM, swimming along the dam. Later, I grabbed some optima feed, and tossed in a handful.. No takers. Moved the branches in a bit, as the water level has dropped a bit. No measurable moisture since 1/1/16. Water level has dropped 14.25". Surrounding ponds have only dropped on average about 8". I'll be putting soilfloc down soon. Supposed to have rain every day next week.
Jeff

IMO the YP will not lay eggs until the water temperature stabilizes near 47F-50F. Keep the ends of your tree-shrub branches at the bottom of the water visibility range so you see all of the first egg ribbons. Take, record, and report the surface water temperature when you see the first egg ribbon.

Don't expect very many of your species of fish to actively feed at the surface until the water reaches 50F-55F. A few may take a little feed at 45-50F.

Bill, I appreciate your input on this thread... Good stuff!
My brookies are loving this weather, had some this past weekend nosing up on the soft ice to take the pellets that were hung up in the slush. Love watching these guys!

Thanks Bill.
We have more days in the upper 60s & 70s next week. Hopefully we will have stable temps above 47+.
Branches are out, and submerged. I adjust them weekly for proper depth.

Looks like I owe Rex Rainman a HUGE Aplology!!!
I had a few minutes so I came up to the pond this afternoon. I took the time to tie on a 1/16 oz Reef Runner cicada. Gold with a red eye. I tossed it in a few places near where I had caught a few (30) YP late last summer. I caught five in nothing flat..
Yep,, they must still be in there! I don't know if five small YP equates to 1,300 that I thought had died, but it's more than I'd seen in months! Maybe there are 1,300 more in there. Who knows?

Rex, I am a horses a$$ for doubting you. You have my most sincere apologies sir..

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll280...951F39EDD9B.jpg

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll280...A023E42C9CD.jpg

This little male left a white trail across my green canoe..
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll280...E210F7D5B83.jpg

Great. It appears you will see at least a few perch egg ribbons soon; maybe after the next warm spell.

Sure hope so.. Quite a relief today. To at least see something.

Should YP egg ribbons be showing up yet in central Indiana?

Any spotted ribbons Setterguy? I just had full ice out today! Will watch temps and get the branches in pronto. Amazing, had floating ice floes yesterday, full ice out this morning and like clockwork, the very first morning of no ice, a female/male mallard duck are swimming around (probably eating the expensive scuds I stocked in there last friday :):)

RAH, what's your water temps?

I do not know my water temp. Should I measure surface temp? What temp signals YP egg laying?

Measure surface temp, and I would also measure 4'-5' water depth if possible.

From Dave Willis:

https://www.sdstate.edu/nrm/outreach/pond/upload/Yellow-Perch-Spawning-Mar-Apr-2007.pdf

Thanks - Looks like about 45 F as a minimum (mid 40s)?

Nice plump healthy lookin YP there.

My surface water temperature quickly increased and reached 50F yesterday after 2 days of 68-70F air temps. I expect YP eggs Friday or Saturday.

If the water is not too muddy, I will start looking.

Bill, in your years of observation, do you see the YP spawn correlating to any moon cycle? Dave Willis also noted photoperiod had an effect too, but didn't elaborate on it.

I know that BG and LMB spawn right around the full moon when the water temps are correct.

""... do you see the YP spawn correlating to any moon cycle?" Never paid much attention to moon phase for YP spawning. YP spawning in my NW OH pond is almost always the last few days of March to the last few egg ribbons near April 10 regardless of the moon cycle. Water temperature for the first egg ribbons laid is 47F to 50F. I think the photoperiod that Dr.Willis referred to was more the day length rather than the moon phase. From my experience the YP eggs are laid mostly during the night or dawn of early morning.

Since BG spawn can occur over an extended period of months the actual egg laying could be more related to the moon phase with the brighter night light from fuller moon periods.

Bill, that's why I asked. I know that the LMB and BG spawns are correlated to the full moon cycle, with water temp also coming into play. I didn't know if YP was the same way. We are now coming off of a new moon, so the full moon will be March 23rd.

I'll be at the pond in about 30 min. We've had a nice long stretch of warm days lately. Also, all the rain I was expecting never materialized. It all went south.
I hope to see and get pics of, some ribbons today.

When I checked my water temp yesterday I found something interesting, at least to me. I have my thermometer set at a 26 inch depth. On the west side of the pond the temp was 52. On the east side it was 47. I noticed the ice went out on the west side first as well. Is it unusual to see that much difference from one side to the other in a little less than .5 acre pond?

Looks like I can start watching for ribbons as well.

If, I say if, my thermometer is right, my water temps are at 58f. I haven't seen any ribbons in westr central MO. Hope I didn't miss them.

Cmm

I guess I've just got a pond that for some reason stays cool. The temp reads 46 about 18' from the bank, 10" deep. Hangs from the dock, on the east side of the pond.
No ribbons, not a lot of movement looking at the water. Not many bites when I tossed out the same little cicada they were hitting last week.
Then around 6:30, I thought I'd throw some optima chow out by hand. Just starting to get dark. It was the most activity I've seen in a year. It could have been the HBG I put in late last summer, or it could have been my 1,100-1,300 YP left over from last April. I have no idea. Pretty fun to watch though. Im used to 90% FHM hitting the feed. Whatever these were, they were hungry.
I'll be back Monday or Tuesday with my grandson. I'm sure hoping we can catch something.

Bill, what direction was the wind? Wind will push surface water to one side of the pond, and cooler water from the depths will upwell behind it. Also, areas of the pond that get the most direct sunlight will warm up faster, especially if there is a dark colored bottom.

Is this a ribbon? I'm sorry if I appear lazy, and haven't looked this up yet, but I thought I'd ask here..

Close up..

Shoo is and good pics. lots of tiny YP gonna make an appearance. A month ago you was worried that there were no more YP, a month from now ya might think there are just way too many.

For best spawning structure for YP egg ribbons the tree branch should have more twigs for the female to hang the ribbon than the sparse twig branch in SetterGuy's picture above. However Bob-O is correct that is an egg ribbon of YP. Notice the water is a little murky so to see more of the egg ribbons the majority of the twigs of the branches should be primarily shallow closer to shore. The perch will readily move up into 6" near the waterline to drape the egg ribbons.

I'm envious Setterguy! Congrats on the pending new additions.

Cmm

I placed 14 different branches around the pond. This was he last one I put in. I wa getting a little desperate in searching out nice branches.
However, this one is the most southerly placed branch. The dam is at the south end. The majority of the branches I placed are around the shallow "north" end. That's also where the feeder is, and where I've caught all the YP.
This was actually the last place I thought they'd choose for a ribbon.
I'll be back up Monday to see if I've got additional ribbons.

I should have moved some additional "better" branches down near where this one that's being used is located, shouldn't I? I'll do that Monday also.

I don't want too many ribbons, so if I find many, many ribbons, I'll pull the rest of the branches.

Thanks
Jeff

Just curious. How long until these hatch? And do I need to do anything to protect them in the meantime? Coons, ducks, herons, etc..
Thanks

If the water stays 50-54F hatch will be 7-9days. At hatching the ribbons gradually fall apart. If the ribbon is not fertilized all those unfertilized eggs will turn white. As fertile eggs get close to hatching it becomes darker color.

SG, dude...ya gotta chill or you're gonna worry them YP into miscarriage. Besides I feel about one more troublesome ? will evoke a large FREAK from Sunill. All them YP and eggs gonna be fine!!!

Ha!! So true. I'm hoping when I go back Monday I'll have a few more ribbons. I think I can hang in there 7-9 days.
Wasn't that long ago, this was just a ravine running down through the timber. Lots of changes for me. I'm trying to stay calm. Just a nervous dad. Will I have any YP, or will I have too many? Just kidding..

Surface temps at 51 F, but no ribbons yet.

Great to hear you still have some perch in there SG. They are quite funny mid summer to late fall on the bite. I expect you to have many more original stockers then you think in there.

Just got back from my golf trip and the ice is just out on our pond. Will be placing branches (apple) today.

Apple here grow really complex and tight.

Cheers Don.

I do have more original stockers than I thought. I put down the wrong type branches, way to spindly, and open. I could have used briars..
The water temp hit 58, over the last two very warm (70*) days. They are laying ribbons everywhere. There's 10 different ribbons within 20' of the dock, all laying on the bottom.
I can see most are pretty dull, so I'm assuming no viable eggs. However, some have an almost iridescent section here or there. Hoping I'll get some recruitment.
Almost all were along the western bank.
I think this pic shows three different ribbons. Thanks again everyone, for all excellent advice. I'll be much better prepared for next spring.
FYI, Rainman arrived yesterday with many more YP, brought them in just in case, I had lost too many from the original stocking. Heck of a guy, to do that.
Thanks,
Rex

The funny thing SG about your concern about them not making it, is perch once introduced into nonnative waters, are typically so successful they become a nuisance species and are impossible to get rid one. Some pristine brook trout waters in the northeast have been forever ruined by the unlawful planting of yellow perch.

Got a couple of yellow perch in to mount from Moosehead Lake, Maine that was once known as a big brook trout mecca.

A local lake was rotenoned to get rid of carp and start over. Guess what species survived?

Bullheads??

Ha! At least they taste good. One if these days, I'm going to buy one of your YP mounts.
They are also pretty weird about being caught. It's lime the dinner bell goes off, and you can catch them. Before that, it's like the pond is empty..

FYI, here's what I was shooting for. (Yesterday)


He hasn't caught enough to feel comfortable with them yet. Didn't want to touch this one, but he got better at it, and helped me clean them, and had no trouble eating them.

Pull up some of those egg ribbons lying on the bottom and wrap /drape them around some of your branches in the water. Your original stocking may have been biased toward larger females. The second delivery with mixed sizes likely had a larger percentage of males.

Beautiful fish and precious son!

Setterguy's Grandson....He loves the pond and I enjoyed all the questions he had for me while stocking the extra fish.....

I'd forgotten the six yr old question everything phase. Happy little guy, but towards the end, I was thinking he was asking so many questions just to drive me crazy.. His favorite thing for two days was catching tadpoles. We bought him a little net on the way up, he waded around the pond a hundred times dipping in that net and pulling up loads of those big bullfrog tadpoles. (We made him stay away from the areas with the most ribbons.) I think his best catch in a single net was fifty. He counted them out one by one. Then we put out some traps and caught hundreds and hundreds.
I'm not sure what these tadpoles eat, but what ever it is, my pond must have a lot of it. It's like one big tadpole hatchery.
I'm going back up Saturday I'll see how many additional ribbons I have. And place them in the branches. Of the four YP my grandson did reel in three were full of eggs. I'm thinking I'll be getting a lot more ribbons.
As we cleaned them, my grandson kept asking me, why did we catch the mommy fish? It bothered him a little. But he ate them just the same.
So now I'm up to 34 YP kept and eaten.

Funny thing at that age is your rubber boots are never tall enough.

Another funny thing is we all got boots older than that.

Ain't that truth!

One of the high school teachers was over to pick up fish food. It's seems like just the other day she was pregnant with her first child. She informed me it's 4 years old!

Damn how fast time flies!

He was funny about that. He'd fill them up in no time. I'd see him empty them out. He'd complain about how hard it was. I said sit down and lift up your legs. He, of course said no Pops.. But then I noticed he was sitting down and lifting his legs. Just had to be his idea. He went for a little swim too. 58* water, it was a pretty short swim. He was yelling like crazy, finally grandma said, stand up Logan its knee deep. Ha

Probably but I was referring to the yellow perch. Produced some dandy yellow perch a few years later. Not sure about now.

The carp are back because the INDNR failed to treat far enough upstream. Hopefully a good bass population will keep them under control.

Before it was killed off it was nothing to catch 6 or 8 ten to fifteen pound carp a day on "wheatie balls" with vannilla extract added. A blast on ultralight tackle!

I don't even know if treating a few miles upstream would be enough. From what I've seen happen to a local lake that was killed, the carp came back and are just as thick as they were before. With the BG/RES/PS/YP/GSH/GS in the lake, I don't think the LMB pay that much attention to the YOY common carp.........

I honestly don't know of any body of water other than ponds where there is a 100 percent fish kill with rotenone. Do you?

I don't know of any way to verify that there was a 100% kill other than draining and seeing if anything was moving.

BUT, if the dosage was done correctly, I wouldn't worry about it. In that particular 365 acre lake, I truly believe that there was a 100% kill because even the crayfish were dead. The lake was dropped 4', and while I don't remember seeing the rotenone being applied, I do remember seeing all the dead fish. I think at that time the State erred on the side of "if a little is enough, 2x the amount is better".

I can't tell you how many roll-off dumpsters were filled with dead fish. All the people that owned houses around the lake were out there scooping up dead fish and putting them in the containers.

I have ribbons! Unlike last year's unfertilized eggs, the ribbons are quite a bit smaller and scattered on submerged plants, rather than on branches. Instead of 2 or 3 like last year, I have dozens (deposited in the last 2 days). I am guessing these are from the 100 small YP stocked last year, rather than the much larger 25 fish stocked 2 years ago (based on ribbon size and number). Hopefully, these will be fertile.

Glad to hear RAH!

That's just awesome! I am really routing for you to have fertile eggs this year!

Excellent! Pics?
Hope to see the difference between nonfertilized and fertilized.

I have them too! Some on Christmas trees, some on the bottom. None on the sumac tree I sunk. Looks like fine brances it is!

The cool part is I caught some of the action this evening. I saw the large individual females being followed by a swarm of smaller males in several places. I did not witness the actual egg laying though, but they seemed oblivious to my presence.

It turns out I have a ton of perch, and the BCP are barely making an appearance.

Found several more ribbons yesterday. I would say there are 20 new ones. Most of the others have dissolved. Some down on the dam, which is the south bank.
Snow on the ground this morning, and 34 degrees, that may slow things down a bit?

Bill Cody, yesterday I got the perch at the fishery in Ohio you pointed me to. 100+ extras 3-4 inch but they looked bigger then that. Never lost one from shock. Bought some food for feeding. I've never had perch so this is new and exciting.

I have lots of structure for the perch to spawn on but I was wondering if they would spawn on the dead cattails that lay thickly underwater?

John, you're gonna love those YP. They are fun to watch eat. After they get used to you being there while they feed I wouldn't be surprised if ya can't get some good pics of them.

I sure like having YP. They haven't been in a year, and I've eaten several, have now seen them "hopefully" spawning. So I should have more in the future.
Just wish they were a little easier to catch.. But that may reflect more on my fishing ability, than the fishes catch-ability.

They are easy to catch if you remember two things:

1. Keep your bait close to the bottom.

2. Small minnows are the best bait.

I use a slip bobber rig and fish the minnow about 12 inches off the bottom. I also twitch it once in a while to get any nearby perch's attention.

Cecil,

What size hook and how are you hooking the minnows, i.e. thru the tail, thru the nose, etc?

We use a 8th ounce jig orange or white in the summer when things are slow with a minnow right on the bottom. Bounce once or twice then hold at about 12"s from bottom wait for the bite.

Spring same jig but with bobber slip or other and a worm. Spring perch just love worms.

Crayfish for the really big perch. The little guys seam to leave the crayfish alone.

Cheers Don.

P.S. no ribbons here in ontario yet.

Through the nose and about a size 8 hook.

On an interesting note when I still had largemouth bass I set ice tip ups with the biggest shiners I could buy. Never got a bass but caught a few 14 to 15 inch yellow perch.

Thanks. Might just try it this summer. I stocked my first YP at 5 to 7 inches in the fall of 2014 and have not tried fishing for them yet. Probably time to do some sampling this summer.

When you do the sampling, let the wife do the cooking and let us know how they were!

Thanks for the tips. I will try all. I've caught most with minnows so far. But I may have used a bit bigger hook, and had the minnow hooked through the back. I also experiment with a lot of different depths. I'm wondering if they shut down when my canoe floats overhead?
I'm going to try right off the bottom also.

I know a guy that has a thai wife too. Oh my God can that woman cook!

Guys,

I gave up trying to guess what's for dinner at my house years ago. My bride may serve curry from India one night followed by southern fried chicken the next. When we lived overseas she made apple pies for a benefit at the American Club. For the next month, American women were at my house when I got home from work learning how to make apple pie!

I think she's a keeper!

And she loves to fish!!!!

Edit: I mentioned to her I would like to try fish tacos early last week. Thursday night she made fish tacos out of Tilapia. Wow!...corn and avocadoes and....in a taco??? Awesome!

Sheesh, I just ate, and now I am hungry again! Stop!

Bill, youuu SCHMUCK. I have ta eat my own cookin and it sucks!

Toads peeping last night. I expect to see some ribbons in the next few days.

Cheers Don.

Weather hit a cool down, fronts coming through this week, wind, rain, cool temps day and night. Still no ribbons in Michigan.

The fish are becoming more active though. I'm seeing more GSH coming to the traps. It is great to see that I have a range of GSH from 4-6" now. I was thinking of restocking but if there are a handful of 5-6" shiners in the pond now then they are safe from predation with perch being the top current predator. Hopefully they will spawn again this year and I won't need to restock.

Catching zero FHM in the traps, probably should put a few more thousand of those in.

After two years our FHM are all but gone. I would not put any more in my pond because they can't keep up to the perch. The shiners are much faster and populate well.

Cheers Don.

Don, how can you tell if the perch can live on shiners alone? I agree, my shiners are doing better than the FHM but it was my hope to keep both populations going, maybe now with adult perch reaching the 9" range that there is no hope of getting FHM back on track, even if I stock the larger 2" or bigger FHM?

I'm interested to hear what Donno says.

Here's what I think.

FHM, due to their slow swimming speed, and the male nest guarding habits, are easy pickings unless there is ample cover/habitat for them that excludes predators - a "safe haven" so to speak. Without ample prey fish specific habitat, I think they will be easy pickings in a pond and won't last more than a few years. Especially if they are the only forage fish.

GSH are broadcast spawners, lay and forget. FHM, even the largest specimens can be eaten by large YP. I was catching YP last Spring on 4" and 5" minnow imitation jerk baits.

Dono,

Are the shiners you're referring to Emeralds or do you have another species of shiner as well?

If you had exclusively pellet trained female only perch and a place for the fatheads to hide I believe your fatheads would last. I had that situation in the past and had thousands of mostly unmolested fatheads.

There is a pond near me with only mixed sex YP that are heavily dependent on pellets where the rare large FHM manages to survive each year; Emphasis on few. Structure is sparse. I have introduced BNM to that pond and they have noticeably higher density than the FHM.

My FHM population persists entering season 2 in 1/3 ac pond with 80 f YP and 100 m BG with zero vegetation [due to crayfish] heavy supplemental feeding with pellets. I will restock 5G [5,000-8,000] FHM annually regardless as they are readily available and somewhat affordable in order to keep population viable, hopefully. Only 1 season isn't enough time to determine if original stocking could persist. Am adding BNM ASAP. Note - most of the larger FHM [2"+] appear to have been extirpated - very few are seen - population consists of mainly smaller fish according to visual evidence under 2" size.

extirpated???


that gets the award for the word of the day for sure!!

Great work on observing that for me. That may work in my pond as well. I think my source for FHM sells by pound not gallon so I'll have to have him count them out now to be sure I have 5000 minnows

I don't know if the perch can live on shiners alone. Right now it is very rare to catch a fat head minnow in our minnow trap but are right full of shiners. This year we do have some emerald shiner recruitment again. Andrew netted some 1.5" ones the other day.




The Emerald shiners are doing well but nothing like the common shiners. This year there are minnows all around the pond but have had luck netting a few emeralds but expect most of them are common shiners.

There is very little places for minnows to hind in our pond. Just rocks all around and a small branch pile. Our crayfish and common shiners are doing the best then the emerald shiners next. FHM are few and far between with young perch numbering in the 1-5 or the original stocked perch. We have never been able to trap young perch in the minnow trap over night ever yet. We are going to make a bigger trap are go at it a bit different this year.

The visibility never gets better than 24"s ever. I expect the young hatched in our pond perch are the ones picking off the FHM. We still pellet feed about 100#'s per year and do see some small perch feeding on the pellets as well as the shiners.

With the perch spawning the spring of 2013 in our pond (thought it was toilet paper in the pond) I expect they have spawned every year since too. I wonder if the large shiners are putting pressure on the young perch limiting the young?

Cheers Don.

I think larger YP hit the small ones pretty hard. I have a lot of YP feeding on pellets right now but I haven't seen any small enough to be from last year's spawn. I still have a lot of small FHM and will stock more this spring. Visibility im my pond is always low, 8" or less, and I rarely see large FHM even after they are stocked. I catch a few large FHM in the minnow trap but I only remember ever catching 2 or 3 YP in the trap.

=================

With the perch spawning the spring of 2013 in our pond (thought it was toilet paper in the pond) I expect they have spawned every year since too.

Cheers Don.
=================

HA! I love your story about thinking the neighbors came and TP-ed your pond!!

WE had a steady all night and all day rain. The pond is turbid and up about 8". I may still stock some next week and just see. They aren't that pricey locally here.

Still no TP in my pond, but it is cold, rainy and the water is stirred up. Tomorrow a nicer day, I'll be checking temps and watching for eggs.

Still early for us Canyon Creek. I've only seen one egg ribbon so far and saw no deflated females when I seined, and I'm a little farther south than you are.

30 degrees this morning, with a 19 windchill and there was about 3/8" of snow on roofs, cars and everything else except the ground.

I am wondering if I will see any more egg ribbons. I am not sure any of the first ones were fertile.

I was still seeing new ones at least 10 days after I saw the first one. I'm not sure many of the ones I saw will actually produce. The first ones had practically dissolved by the time I left, last Sunday. There were some individual eggs (or dots) within the ribbons that really were bright, I assumed those were the most likely to hatch. I put out the wrong type branches though. Hopefully I'll get the same number of ribbons next year, but have them in a better position (on better branches) to get a better hatch.

Cecil,
I guess I spoke too soon! I had trees in all sides of the pond but of course the first egg strand goes in on top of the leaves and about 5' away from any tree. It is exactly on the south pole of the pond in surprisingly shallow water (maybe 10"?) Probably where the water was warmest.

I rechecked temps and it is 50 or 50.1 degrees on both sides of the pond and over the site where the eggs were. None of the trees have strands and this is the only free floating one.

Wrap or weave that ribbon around a branch to keep it off the bottom. It will hatch better if off the bottom.

Thanks Bill, I may do that. But for now since my pond is small and I have 100 5-8" perch, I'm not sure I want all the egg strands to stay in the pond and hatch. Although I certainly think it would be neat to have some young perch make it and do their own growing and spawning. Now all of a sudden I have to make pond management decisions

No predators but I'm sure next year I'll put some in or late fall. Thinking about a few SMB.

I'll see how many other egg strands I see over the next few days/weeks.

Bill, any idea what is a average hatch from a ribbon? (In a natural setting.)
The reason I ask is, I must have ended up with at least 40 ribbons, and maybe more, but most of mine were on the ground. Granted, I put out the wrong type branches for them to use. I imagine I will see pretty low numbers of actual eggs hatched.
My guess is you see a pretty high hatch rate at your place. Mine can only improve.

Average hatch from a ribbon will depend primarily on where the ribbon is located, clarity of the water(silt), and of course size of the ribbon and how well it is fertilized. I've seen some ribbons with very few fertilized eggs. This occurs in populations where there is a skewed sex ratio of male to female that sometimes occurs when only one size of graded stocker perch was purchased.

Average eggs per 8"-10" YP is variable and in the range of 25,000-60,000. Some sources say there will be around 6500 eggs per inch of female perch. If you have kids, you can remove a piece of ribbon with eggs and hatch in inside in a big jar, bucket or aquarium. It helps to keep the eggs aerated. After 4-7 days inside and the ribbon starts breaking apart it is hatching. This will give an idea of the viablity that ribbon.

As a manual management, each spring I remove all the ribbons that I can find. I still have a fair number of small perch each year that likely hatch from fragmented ribbons or ribbons laid in deeper water. I have only a few walleye as predators(no bass) and some perch that do not eat pellets. My management philosophy is to produce lots of trophy size perch which means limited competition. Each year I buy some of the largest fastest growing perch from a producer to replace those harvested. This keeps my pellet eating YP population numerous and lots of large trophy size perch.

Bill,
I'd like to hatch some perch inside, but I think I need to wait till the perch ribbon is fertilized right? Any idea on how long to wait if I found it yesterday?

it gets fertilized as the female lays it.

Generally the smaller ribbon that you hatch the more likely that it will not develop fungus that kills the developing embryos. A 2" section of ribbon will contain plenty of eggs for observation. As eggs develop do a water change every day or two with chlorine free house water (well water) conditioned to the same temperature as the current developing eggs. This helps minimize fungus for novices. If you see any all white eggs in the small ribbon section suck just those out with a turkey baster so the fungus does not spread as fast. Another way to do it is to allow the eggs to remain suspended in the pond for 4-6 days then clip off a small piece of ribbon and bring it inside to watch the final development and hatch of the fry. Remember to gently aerate the water with the eggs.

No ribbons here in SE Michigan, the air temperature hasn't been 50 or over but for a few days. I have only seen 2 ribbons since stocking YP a few years ago and no recruitment. My pond is like DonnoBBD, rocks all the way around (no veg.) and a Christmas tree tied to shore. I have an abundance of minnows and a few walleye. This year I'm keeping my aerator off until I think the perch are done to eliminate the silt part of the equation. I may have too many of one size class or maybe too many WE for the amount of perch.

Loretta you don't really don't need to crank up your aeration until just before the pond would stratify. I don't crank mine up until sometime in May.

Save the electricity!

I guess I won't know if I've had a successful hatch until I see schools of little ones, or start catching smaller ones next year. I've got GSH, and RES that should be spawning also. Could be a lot of little ones in there before too long. I might have to shut off the feeder.
I swear, everything I do with this pond, and I mean "observe" because I don't actually "do" that much, is a first. It sure is fun to watch.
I really do appreciate you guys putting up with all my stupid questions..

This year's YP hatchlings, if well fed, should be 3" in August and 4"-5" by fall-October. I've seen young of year (YOY) 4"YP in August. These fish can easily be caught angling with a small piece of worm (#10or12 hook) or in a fish trap both fished close to shore 2ft-4ft deep providing a respectable number of hatchlings survived to be 1" fingerlings.

The boy caught this huge common shiner today. Biggest shiner I have ever seen in my life. It was all of 8"s. If I have a few of these in the pond I see why we have millions of common shiner minnows.

Cheers Don.

Dono - those abundant common shiners are also eating a lot of YP fry. You would not have lots of common shiners if you did not have a water falls where they spawn successfully in the water current. If you want to reduce shiner recruitment turn off the water falls then you will not have any common shiner reproduction this year. If you don't believe me, try it.

I think your 100% correct on the water fall. We placed river rock under the water fall all the way to the bottom of the pond in that area holding the rubber down. In front of the waterfall about 6 feet from the surface is where Andrew caught this huge specimen.

I am very pleased to see our first year 2012 recruitment in the 8-10" range. I guess I never knew how fast these perch grow. 4"-5" first year 8-10" the second and 10-11" third and seeing 13"+ the fourth year. These may not be great growth numbers but to me this is fantastic.

I have the waterfall hooked to my timer that currently is running 10 hours from 8am-6pm during the day. When the water starts to get over 55-60 degrees I then turn the water fall and aeration at night for 10 hours 8pm to 6 am.

Do you think I could become over abundant in over sized shiners?

Cheers Don.

Don,

Just curious...ever considered dropping just a few WE in your pond?

I think those are great growth metrics on your yp don't sell yourself short. Further you are developing science from which we are all benefitting with your unique fishery and forage base. Please keep us apprised of your experiences and great work thus far. I'd love some wr totals from your yp if you get the time for length and weight measurements.

Bill Cody,
You mentioned the egg strands are fertilized as they come out (or prior maybe?) This means the male has done his work prior to egg release or as they release?

Also, does anyone know if they only lay eggs at night? Someone mentioned the moon phase may have something to do with it but I'm curious why they wouldn't lay eggs during the day as well.

esshup has the information correct that he posted back on the previous page: "it gets fertilized as the female lays it." In optimum spawning, several to a dozen males follow the female and spray milt near the ribbon of eggs as it is released. Reports indicate most spawning activity for perch occurs in dusk, night, and dawn. Subscribe to PBoss magazine where I plan to have 6 articles on growing yellow perch in ponds. Part2 deals with spawning through late fry stage and it is almost done except for a few pictures. Hopefully I can complete all of them in 2016.

Bill has inspired me to build some large traps to get some sizes and weights. We plan on this this project this summer. I just need to get a fish scale or digital mail scale for the weights. Length and girth will be no problem.

I was going to add walleye but with the few recruitment of perch fry I have been worried about pulling that trigger. I wonder about the shiner adults eating the perch eggs or fry.

My goals are the same as Bills perch pond but the only difference is trapping and pellet training our own perch. The problem with that is that we can not trap any young perch in the minnow traps. We have tried many different ways, depths and traps will little luck trapping young perch. This is why my thoughts are that the shiners are culling our young perch for us with some recruitment making it through the rath of the shiners.

Cheers Don.

Dono - How far did you have to go to get your initial stocker perch? If your YP recruitment is poor and as you harvest adults you can always add some stocker YP every year or two.

I had to go to Lake Erie about 3.5 hours away.

I did wonder about asking if Frank can deliver some each year if he was heading up this way.

Cheers Don.

EDIT: lets make some traps and try an assessment of the pond this summer. So far this spring we are very happy with what 8-10" perch we are catching.

Again I expect the perch we are catching on worms or natural bait are the ones foraging for food and not on pellets. Our pellet perch last summer were noticeable with the feed running out of them and the two large layers of fat inside them.

Dono - Another option for getting some of those high quality stocker YP from the Lk Erie producer is to see if you can meet the delivery truck somewhere when it is within an hour or two of your pond. Win-Win. You get fish at closer drive and they make a additional sale.

FYI, up at the pond this evening. There are still new ribbons, now showing up around the dam, at the north end.
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll280...C6E29657C04.jpg

Caught seven YP this evening. All before the feeder went off at 6:30. After it went off I noticed more YP rising to take feed than I've ever seen. This one was a little over 11". No eggs in any of the seven YP. Also, in cleaning the fish, I noticed most had pellets in their stomach. No other food appears eaten. There are lots of FHM everywhere.

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll280...BB0414EC1F9.jpg

Also had a GSH hit my little lure. First GSH I've seen since they were stocked a little less than a yr ago.

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll280...B267DB9F4F2.jpg

Clouds of FHM everywhere, so there's plenty of forage.

SetterG - It seems the YP are telling you there are still fair numbers present and that you are not a very successful perch angler. You will have to spend some time this year sharpening your skills for catching YP. Keep trying & learning you will learn the technique.

So check this out. I had been actively trapping with various minnow nets, trying to see what I can catch. This weekend I pulled the traps out to the edges of the pond. One trap was left with half of the trap out and half in. The part in the pond had only about 3" of water in it and was right on the shore line, half in and half out.

I walked the perimeter today and pulled the traps all the way out of the water. Here is the trap I'm referring to.



I got to this trap and looking down the barrel of one of the side holes I found this big pile of white mush on the bottom of the trap right under the hole. This is looking down the little hole in the side of the trap:




I thought, COOL we have some frog or toad eggs here! They were a dense jelly like mass, very slimy. I reached into the opening on the side of the trap and could easily scoop up the mass of eggs in one mass. They seemed to be a clump and acted like Jello. I couldn't identify them, even close up.




I figured if the critter laid the big egg mass in the shallows then they probably should go back there. I saw no tadpoles, frogs, turtles etc yet as waters are still cold. I tossed the handfull into the shallows and then I saw the glob just turn into this!!
















































I was shocked! It was like a metamophosis in front of my eyes. Even though the eggs were a clear pile or blob, you toss them in the water and they become a very cool ribbon instantly!

So I have 2 egg 'piles' now, this one was on the east side of the pond where the sun can shine. The west side of the pond is shaded by forest. The first ribbon was on the south side where there is no trees.

Somehow that perch went into about 2-3" of water, backed in the hole of the minnow trap (or went in and swam around in the trap a bit), chose to lay eggs there, and perhaps some males also went in and swam around to to fertilize the eggs? Then the perch left the way she came.

I now wonder if the attraction was the water temp and shallow water but also because the minnow net and the small hole to get in presented a place to safely spawn? I wonder if perch like the protection of the dense tree branches but don't necessarily need a branch to drape the eggs over? I wonder why they chose the net particularly inside the net to drop the eggs even though the eggs had to go in a pile without any way to string them out along the bottom or over a tree branch. hmm...

Maybe I should put out some cavities and see if they do like a little hiding place while they are making babies?

Anyone else concerned that this cold weave coming up is going to cause the span to fail? I wouldn't be surprised to see my pond ice over again after the cold shot or two and high winds we are likely to get.

I totally agree! The seven I caught yesterday were with a little imitation minnow. I've got my fly rod up here. I'd really like to catch them on a fly. About the only solution I see for that would be with a imitation floating fish food, and fish when the feeder goes off.

Where can I find a fly that looks like Optima?

Any other ways I can catch perch with a fly rod?
Any issues with catching perch while the feeder goes off? (I don't want to scare them off feed.)

You may laugh at me but use a nib lit of sweet corn. It works really well.

Cheers Don.

I'll give it a shot. I assume with a small hook, and a bobber, right off the bottom?

My kids were slaying them this past weekend with a little chunk of nightcrawler slowly dragged across the bottom. Small barbless hook with a very tiny weight. Chunk of nightcrawler was 1 inch or less. Getting hits on every cast, barbless hooks make it a little more challenging to land them. Not feeding pellets at the moment so not exactly the same situation.

With the corn you can use it on the bottom or on the fly rod. Spring they are scavenging the bottom. We have the best luck with worms on the bottom. The bite is light this time of the year. A 13" plus will bite like the 6 or 8".

San Juan worm in correct color would match Optimal. Or, this would be an easy fly to tie if you go this route: I'd match foam strip [to ensure it floats] and dub to correct color and wrap them on nymph hook shank. That's how I'd address matching the Optimal "hatch".

Thanks. I don't tie my own flies. I'll figure something out. Maybe I can modify one of my hoppers.
I've got San Juan worms as well. Plus some real worms. Caught 9 more yesterday bouncing a jig on the bottom. Caught in places I haven't caught any before.

You should think about buying a little starter kit for $50. I keep meaning to get serious, but only find time to dabble...still, would be a great skill to master. The SJW is probably the easiest pattern to tie - few wraps on foam and dub and a drop of head cement and boom you're done. Just a thought for you.

I had a small jig on yesterday morning. Running it along the bottom I caught 20 more YP. There for a while, it was on almost every cast. I started just keeping the larger males. I ended up keeping 7 more YP, four males, and three females.
There were many smaller males. I'm thinking they were from Raiman's recent stocking, as they were in the 3-5" range.
As long as I keep a feeder running, I should not end up with stunted YP, right?

I also had two HBG hit my little jig. I was a bit surprised. It was in water where there is no structure, but it was near where the most recent YP ribbons were laid. The HBG have grown an inch or so, since being stocked last summer.

IF your feeding them you will be very please how well they grow. I didn't realize how fast perch grew. They start to slow down a bit after 11"s but up to 11"s they get there fast.

I learned last year that if the water stays a bit cooler the larger ones will grow better. I started running the aeration shorter and only at night. This was Bill Codys advice and the reasoning was that the larger perch grow better with the water staying cooler than the 80's I think.

Cheers Don.

Loretta,
I think if your perch are ready to lay eggs they will lay eggs regardless of if the bottom conditions are not ideal or not. However my perch are completely ignoring my branches and instead are laying them on the leaves in very shallow water. My branches are out about 6' from sure with 2' of water below the branches. Then we had the big rain yesterday and now the butt end of the branches need to be pulled back up the bank. Of the 5-6 trees I put in only one has a ribbon on it and that is about 1' out from bank in shallow water, maybe 1' or so. At least for my pond, the perch seem to want to be right in the 10-12" water range and seem to like to lay them right over the oak leaves. Next to the trees I see 4-5 new ribbons all laying right on top of leaves, some in water less than 1'.

The accidental discovery of the perch going in my big pyramid minnow trap to lay eggs might be useful for you. I put 3 styles of minnow traps out around the pond. The metal mesh minnow trap they ignored as it was in about 18" water and right on the bottom. The big pyramid trap I had them go in once and lay eggs even though the water was probably only 8-9" where they swam in the hole and then they swam out.

I had purchased another type of smaller collapsible minnow trap, made out of a green mesh cloth. The trap is rectangular and the hole is right on the small end of the trap, about 2" round hole. I set that trap in just enough water to cover it, about 12" and low and behold yesterday a new perch ribbon right in the trap. This time they went in a small hole, did the good deed, and came back out again. Amazing!

You can see various pictures of it here.
crayfish trap

So, maybe any mesh bag or trap (the soft green mesh seems to be fine with them) could be staged instead of branches?

I have been trying to move the ribbons to branches to stage them up in the water column and to help with water exposure and aeration. My first ribbon is now starting to break apart and some of the eggs look more dark. But water air/water getting cold with flurries expected tomorrow so not sure if eggs go into hibernation, and then continue to maturate as waters warm up again.

another footnote... Minnow traps really help you see what is in your pond. I couldn't catch minnows last fall or this spring in my traps. Wasn't sure what to make of it..are they just not going in the traps or are they truly gone? I restocked about 8000 minnows this week Tuesday and yesterday already had minnows in all my traps. Even though I had 2 years to try to create forage base with lots of FHM, they are gone in about 6 mo once perch get going on them

I'm hoping enough heat has been stored to prevent much but a skim. So far the only eggs I'm seeing are frog eggs. Hoping my perch are lazy or late bloomers! Looks like we are in for quite a shock with this cold. Still take this winter over 14/15 anytime.

I don't think any YP were under 5" in the stock earlier this spring. I wouldn't think you'd have ANY YP under 5" (except possible new fry) since there hasn't been a prior spawn

Central PA here - NO YP eggs. We put branches in the pond first week in March - pond temps were still pretty cool 48-50, and many on PB had still not seen eggs. Now today we still have no eggs. Spring Peepers are all over the place mating and laying eggs and still no YP eggs. I feel like I need to play some Barry White music or something! Anyone around PA have eggs yet?

Don, my YP stocked last April, have grown pretty fast. I was a bit surprised to see some pretty small males. I guess about 5". They also seem small because they are so much more slim, than the females. Most all the small YP stocked last April are 8-11" now. I'll be very happy, if they all get to that length by next spring.

Canyoncreek, you are seeing the exact thing I am. The oak leaves are pretty thick near the bank, 90% of the 50+ ribbons I've seen are all laying in the leaves. I didn't exactly put the right type of branches out, but I'm not sure it would have made any difference. They really seemed to prefer very shallow water, next to the bank.
I imagine I'm going to have some successful hatch out of all those.

Thanks
Jeff

Rex, it must be my misjudgment of length. And that's all I will say about that.

Also, there must have been something hatching late yesterday. I almost ran back to the barn for the fly rod. All across the pond, fish were rising, and eating something. I have no idea which fish were feeding, but for about 30 minutes, there was a lot of activity.
Hopefully, they were eating mosquitos!

Victor, I am due west of you. I saw my first yellow perch eggs on 12 March. Some were laid in dead crab grass right at the shore, another on a branch I laid out. I did not and have not seen any additional ribbons but my water hasn't been that clear due to rain. I am sure they will come, my water temp has been all over the place this year.

Thanks Ben. Still nothing. I will report here or on the other YP thread currently on the forum. Fingers crossed that I didn't miss it.

Nothing in Ontario Canada here. We just got a shot of snow about 6"s over the weekend. Poor robins were wondering what the he!!

Saw the first great blue heron yesterday and sand piper/ or snipe. No toads thrilling again so we are still a month out I expect. Think we have been spoiled with such a nice winter we want spring to come right away.

Cheers Don.

Looks like YP spawned.



A pic of the 6 month old and 2.5 yr old pups

RAH - that YP in your picture is from last year's hatch.

That was my guess too. Looks like the 100 3-4" YP I added last year were unnecessary. I don't think any of them would still be this small.

Dangit Don send some of natures AC down south...... It's hot!

April is usually cooler than June:)

I had 30+ ribbons. I'm assuming something hatched from all those. I have lots of fry swimming along the banks. I can't tell if they are FHM, RES, YP, or GSH though.
Walking the banks, I can see lots of spawning beds all around the pond. Could be the HBG too.

I was convinced that the ribbons that I had 2 years ago were infertile. I guess the 100 YP that I added last year will still speed up the process. Now I hope to catch some LCS and SMB fingerlings. I see a lot of small fish swimming around and caught a FHM as well. Everybody should be well fed!

The water warmed enough in the pond to get this year's span pretty busy. Baby fish everywhere! Hopefully not Koi or it is time to get some SMB this fall. Too soon to tell if they are perch, since right now they all look like FHM babies to me.

Well we finally got some heat but again cool tomorrow. Pond is having a hard time getting to 70*F.

Perch have spawned and to my surprise some fathead minnows have showed up again.

Lots of minnow but are too small to tell what they are. What ever is going on with our perch they are re populating but not to the point we can catch them in a minnow trap. We are catching two year old perch from our first spawn so there is some recruitment. Pulling out as many ribbons as we can every year.

I really need some walleye but I can't find an Ontario supplier anywhere who has them or I can get on a list to get some in the fall. Hoo hum...