This time we set up Tilapitopia in our barn This version is a bit more advanced. We built an 8' by 8' by 6' "room" in the barn and added extra insulation and vapor barriers. There is solar power available for air pumps, lights, as well as water heaters. There is grid power being used as well to run a larger air pump and one extra light.
The setup uses two IBCs for the habitat areas ( I know round would be better, but they are what we had), three 55 gal. blue barrels for a poo collection tank, bio reactive tank, and water heating tank. The water is moved with gravity and air lift. If grid power goes down, we should be just fine on the two little air pumps and a single light.
Here is a little video showing the setup.
So far we have run into just a few issues and solved them using last years' experiences. We have seeded the system with a few Tilapia earlier today and will be checking the water chemistry often.
That's cool! I'll have to get on my PC tomorrow to check out the vid as my ancient Ipad won't do youtube anymore.
Yep airlift is the way to go to reduce power consumption and increase run time if the power goes out. The solar is cool too.
The 1 inch tilapia I had Fed Exed a month and a half ago are up to 6 inches now. They feed like gangbusters 3 to 4 times a day. As you know I originally had issues but that is over. Hope they're not too big by May when they will be sold wholesale for FA control.
...The 1 inch tilapia I had Fed Exed a month and a half ago are up to 6 inches now. They feed like gangbusters 3 to 4 times a day. As you know I originally had issues but that is over. Hope they're not too big by May when they will be sold wholesale for FA control.
Dang Cecil you are definitely King of the pond. That's nearly an inch growth per week. What are you feeding those guys, Wheaties, breakfast of champions?!!
I would try fix the channeling in the MBBR. You really need the whole thing to work like the active side.
If you want suggestions, send me a PM.
I agree with JKB. Optimum would be your air and media coming up the center middle and the media going back down the sides.
Also, I would put a lid on top of your mbbr tank to keep light out with just maybe a crack facing away from the light to allow C02 to escape. (I cut my tops off the blue tanks where they narrow just below the top with a reciprocating saw. Then you can just flip the lid over and it fits perfectly as a removable lid.) Nitrobactors (the ones that convert nitrite to nitrates) will work much better in the dark. Actually the nitrosomonas (the ones that convert ammonia to nitrites) don't like light either. In reality there are lot of other species but you get the drift. Ultraviolet will actually kill them if it's sufficient.
The above two things can make a difference when your fish load increases.
I'm guessing you're using a couple of airstones in the bottom of the mbbr tank?
I'll see if I can find a picture of a barrel with an airstone set up on aquaponics nation that I thought was pretty clever.
BTW here's a really cool DIY S & G filter that is used as a secondary filter in some koi ponds to produce gin clear water. I like how he cleans the solids out too.
...The 1 inch tilapia I had Fed Exed a month and a half ago are up to 6 inches now. They feed like gangbusters 3 to 4 times a day. As you know I originally had issues but that is over. Hope they're not too big by May when they will be sold wholesale for FA control.
Dang Cecil you are definitely King of the pond. That's nearly an inch growth per week. What are you feeding those guys, Wheaties, breakfast of champions?!!
Bill,
I goofed. Time goes by so fast for me I am a poor judge of it. And I keep almost no records! Ask Bill Cody.
Anyway, got the fish at the very end of July. Had serious issues with them that I finally resolved about a month later with two antibiotic saturated in the feed treatments (first treatment was worthless as they weren't feeding actively), and three potassium permanganate treatments. I had 10 dead in the bag when I got them right off the bat, and ended up with about half or less of the 300 fish I originally ordered.
Anyway fish have been in the tank about 2 1/2 months from when they were 1 inch, which is 5 inches of growth in 10 weeks.
The survivors are extremely healthy and want to feed all the time. Not all are 5 inches but I'm guessing the females are the smaller ones.
Nice setup high flyer! Get the system processing feed and take em through winter, then you can make the quantum leap to aquaponics with a garden wall on the outside of the room.
I would not worry about your IBC's for what you are doing.
IBC's are generally square tanks with no sharp right angles and that is where stuff builds up. You should be able to put in a center drain, being this small with adequate depth and introduce your water back in by diffusing it along two opposing sides. Should keep it pretty clean in the tank, but you'll have to tweak how you introduce the input.
I've been trying to find a couple IBC's around here, but they have all had industrial waste in them and the prices are outrageous. Hell, if there is still a quart left in them, it could cost hundreds to have it cleaned along with all the lab work to certify it.
I've seen some IBC's around here that had foodstuffs in them. Molasses and other stuff like that. IIRC the last time I searched, they were $50 each.
I've seen some cages without the totes (but I can find where they came from, and the place has them available with totes) and the label said Isopropyl alcohol.
If you don't mind the drive, there is a company off of 1-69 here that sells circular polyethylene tanks with minor flaws at very reasonable prices. They will cut them down to whatever height you want. Most of the tanks are 4 to 5 feet in diameter.
I've purchased 5 of them now for not much over $100.00. They're white and show the fish and solids quite well. I cut a hole in the center bottom with a hole saw at pick up to aid in hauling (one of the straps goes through the hole), and the hole is also used for center drain by installing a 3 inch Uniseal. I prefer the Uniseal as a bulkhead fitting creates too much of a raised area IMHO and it collects solids. As far as hauling, the tanks are very flimsy so the strap through the hole insures they stay secured on a trailer.
The company is the Assman corporation in Garrett, Indiana (honest no kidding).
Cecil, how long do you thing those tanks will hold up if outside in the sun?
Thinking for the future, and thinking about ways to hold smaller quantities of fish here before delivery or for customer pick-up.
No filtration, I'd use a flow thru system using pond water. I'd have to also figure out a bottom drain flush system to clean the poo out of the tanks daily.
Cecil, how long do you thing those tanks will hold up if outside in the sun?
Thinking for the future, and thinking about ways to hold smaller quantities of fish here before delivery or for customer pick-up.
No filtration, I'd use a flow thru system using pond water. I'd have to also figure out a bottom drain flush system to clean the poo out of the tanks daily.
I honestly don't know about outside longevity but you could ask the company. I did have one outside in the shade for one summer with no issues. Now I use an 8 foot blue plastic stock tank for outside as I needed a larger tank. I've had that one for four years now with no issues. Even store it outside upside down for the winter. (Won't fit through a doorway).
As far as a bottom flush system you can't go wrong with a 3 inch unseal, short section of 3 inch PVC pushed through it with a shower drain glued in. If you glue an end cap on to a section of PVC and then cut most of it off you will have a lip to keep the shower drain from pulling through the Uniseal.
Then an elbow and 3 inch pipe parallel to the floor or ground, culminating to a knife gate valve and an external stand pipe. On the other side of stand pipe (T with vertical pipe fitted in) is a barb fitting and a water line to direct waste water flow. Awesome stuff for a garden or your lawn!
Pull the knife gate valve and the water around the drain in the fish tank rushes to the top of the stand pipe with enough force to really suck out any solids in the drain and around it. Amazing how dark it is if the fish are tilapia!
I use fernco couplers to put sections of it together to make disassembly easier. You can set the whole thing on one or two rows of blocks to get the blue tanks even with the fish tank. You can use less blocks if you have piece of plywood under the tank between the blocks.
Remember how many blocks it took at the Aquaculture convention in Shipshewanna? Don't do that anymore! Crazy times!
Edit: Just realized you said flow through. In that case just dig a trench under your tank to fit the bottom drain and you are good to go.
The flow thru system would be screened, so fish couldn't flow from one tank to another. I'd open the bottom drain once a day to get all the nasty's out.
Heck, I could go with 8' dia tanks too - just couldn't move more than one at a time with the trailer that I have.
More good ideas Cecil, I'll have to look into those types of tanks around here.
Now back to the freak show...
Here are a few pictures of some of the solar setup.
This one is the panels, the front three are for electricity, ie this is the power for the batteries, air pumps and lights. The back four are for heat, I expect to add four more panels into the system later this year, and during the cold, miserable part of the winter, there may be even more panels than that!!
This is a picture of the charge controller refilling the batteries after a night of draining due to electric loads.
After the batteries are full, you should see something like this.
All this means is that the batteries are full and system is not using much power. If I turned something "on" as a load, the charge controller would output the needed power if available.
Finally, here is a picture of the temporary setup. It shows the battery box, the load sensing Wizbang Jr on the deltec bus bar, the charge controller, and a sine wave inverter. With this setup, we have 230 Amp-hours of DC power at 24 volts. and we can make up to 1500 watts of 120V AC as needed. The current set of solar panels can produce around 700 watts of power in full sun. Of course, we can add more panels to generate more power if needed.
I know what you mean! I have a business sign near the highway in the front yard and over the years it looks like someone has shot at it a couple of times with birdshot. But I know it's the mower.
If you don't mind the drive, there is a company off of 1-69 here that sells circular polyethylene tanks with minor flaws at very reasonable prices. They will cut them down to whatever height you want. Most of the tanks are 4 to 5 feet in diameter.
I've purchased 5 of them now for not much over $100.00. They're white and show the fish and solids quite well. I cut a hole in the center bottom with a hole saw at pick up to aid in hauling (one of the straps goes through the hole), and the hole is also used for center drain by installing a 3 inch Uniseal. I prefer the Uniseal as a bulkhead fitting creates too much of a raised area IMHO and it collects solids. As far as hauling, the tanks are very flimsy so the strap through the hole insures they stay secured on a trailer.
The company is the Assman corporation in Garrett, Indiana (honest no kidding).
Thanks for the info and link Cecil. Those would be quite reasonable compared to others selling tanks for an Aquaculture purpose. I'll check it out.
Supposed to go to Chicago next month for Rockwell's Automation Fair, but think I'll accidentally hit Grovertown on my GPS
When I get home tonight I'm gonna measure to see about putting a 15' dia Intex pool in the basement. I'm sure it will go easy, but can't remember where the support columns are. If all is well, I'll stop at Sears on the way to work in the morning and order one. Only $220.00 plus free ship to store. It's the 15' dia x 42" deep model.
Dave hasn't picked up the WE from Chippewa yet, but said if I want to play with some to let him know by the 26th. They are up to 8" right now, which on their own will not be feed trainable, but, If I only put 10-20 in a tank of YP that are feed trained, will they catch on???
No clue, but winter is approaching and I need something to do.
Just a thought on the Intex pools. I have seen koi folks put center drains in them using a bulkhead fitting and elevating them with high density foam board. They were using them as quarantine tanks or to bring their fish in for the winter.
When I finally get my coldwater partial recir going I will elevate the pools with a low level plywood platform and a couple 4 X 4's on top of each other spaced apart under plywood to support the tank. Probably two 4x4's every couple of feet. Or one layer of cinder blocks. The plywood will have a cutout in the center to provide rigid support to the center drain. My side drains will be 4 inch PVC siphons and the pools will work like a Cornell dual drain but on a shoestring budget. Mechanical filtrstion will either be a sieve filter or a rotary drum filter. There's an affordable European RDF now on the market for large koi ponds that would be perfect for all my tanks. I believe it's called profidrum. There's couple of distributers in the US now on the Koiphen site. There was another imported one from Indonesia that had a lot of mechanical issues.
Check Amazon and Ebay for Intex pools. They usually have the best prices and the shipping may be free. I got a 12 foot a couple of years ago for $108.00 with free shipping.
There will be no mowing around those panels!! I have seen them hit by hail and they seem to do very well. I have been impressed, but I am not going to test them....
There will be no mowing around those panels!! I have seen them hit by hail and they seem to do very well. I have been impressed, but I am not going to test them....
Looks so dry the grass hardly grows there! Tony would go out of business down there!
I have a question as far as the IBCs go. I am planning on setting up a tank for a research project for school. There are a few IBCs laying around my farm and I was hoping to use one as my tank. The problem is they were not used for holding foodstuff, but instead for fertilizer. I was planning on scrubbing with dish soap, then pressure washing it. I don't want to go through all of this trouble if there will still be any harmful chemical remaining that will hurt my fish. If adequately cleaned, will this plan work?
I've cleaned a lot of plastic totes and barrels, and in my opinion the best thing to do after you've cleaned it is to ask yourself "would I use this for drinking water for my family?" If the answer is yes, you're probably good to go. If not, I wouldn't put fish in it.
If you decide to try it, I recommend a powdered brewers wash for cleaning. Some types of plastics are porous, and are difficult to clean.
I have one that I use to catch rain water that I thought about setting up with some tilapia to winter them. Seeing all these intricate setups is disheartening though. Just thought about putting a couple aquarium filters and heaters in/on it...
I don't think I agree with the comment about if you wouldn't drink out of it, don't put fish in it. I mean, I wouldn't drink out of my pond....
Don't give up that thought Sean! If you are willing to settle for only a few fish, I see no reason it wouldn't work as a hobby kind of project. I wouldn't try it for a bunch of fish though. I raised fish for years in aquariums, just don't over populate your ability to keep good water quality with those aquarium filters. Maybe a pair big enough to breed would give you several stocker little guys for next spring? I would probably throw in a benign bottom dweller to keep the excess food cleaned up. If I was doing it, I would set it up just like a big aquarium. My 2 cents
”Like an aquarium” was my thought on it Bill....set up in my shop. My thought was to use my minnow trap to get a couple dozen of my smallest fingerlings when the water gets to about 60 degrees in my pond...and set the heaters to maintain about 60-65 degrees through the winter. Then put them back in the pond in the spring when temps will support them.
I have one that I use to catch rain water that I thought about setting up with some tilapia to winter them. Seeing all these intricate setups is disheartening though. Just thought about putting a couple aquarium filters and heaters in/on it...
I don't think I agree with the comment about if you wouldn't drink out of it, don't put fish in it. I mean, I wouldn't drink out of my pond....
Sean
I'm looking at it from a chemical standpoint. If I can't remove the fertilizer residue to the point where I'm comfortable enough to drink from it, I'm not sure I want fish in there, either.
”Like an aquarium” was my thought on it Bill....set up in my shop. My thought was to use my minnow trap to get a couple dozen of my smallest fingerlings when the water gets to about 60 degrees in my pond...and set the heaters to maintain about 60-65 degrees through the winter. Then put them back in the pond in the spring when temps will support them.
Sean
I don't know how big a tank you are talking, but I would keep the feed to the low side. I would not be looking for huge growth, just get them healthy and happy thru the winter. I like your plan and it is a great opportunity for other folks to learn from your experience! I would think keeping the feed to the low side will also help with water quality.
I'm currently looking at blue barrels to build a dock. Some are labeled as food and others chemical. At first glance I figured food grade would be safe. And it probably would but I'm concerned about how safe. Some of the concentrated syrups don't ever really get cleaned out.
At one time I raised bees. One of our tricks was to give them a barrel of syrup generally used for soft drinks. We opened the top of the barrel and floated plastic foam on top. The bees landed on the foam and got the sugary stuff. However, one barrel of Coca Cola syrup killed a lot of bees one year. I'm still nervous about drinking Cokes.
”Like an aquarium” was my thought on it Bill....set up in my shop. My thought was to use my minnow trap to get a couple dozen of my smallest fingerlings when the water gets to about 60 degrees in my pond...and set the heaters to maintain about 60-65 degrees through the winter. Then put them back in the pond in the spring when temps will support them.
Sean
I don't know how big a tank you are talking, but I would keep the feed to the low side. I would not be looking for huge growth, just get them healthy and happy thru the winter. I like your plan and it is a great opportunity for other folks to learn from your experience! I would think keeping the feed to the low side will also help with water quality.
Where's the fun in that guys? The biggest kick I get out of bringing fish in for the winter into my DIY systems is he much they have grown come spring.
Our plan is to start with around 40-50lbs of Tilapia and not overfeed until mid to late February to grow them out.
If we can keep the water temps in the mid 70's all winter with our solar setup, we will be feeding them more sooner and grow them as big as we can. It will all depend on the water temps.
Also, I need to calculate how much waist our bio tank can process. That too could limit our plans. It is all a balancing act.
Read somewhere that cola's from fast food places, that dispense from the counter, are a breeding ground for bacteria in the ice. This is due to all the workers that fail to wash their hands.
I read that the more sterile environment that a child is raised in, the more health problems they will have later on in life when they are exposed to everyday germs - not enough immunities built up in the system from early age.
i.e. people that were born and raised out in the country have less allergies to airborne pollen than people that were born and raised in large cities.
Maybe there IS some truth to the saying "What doesn't kill you makes you stronger"
When our boys were younger the pediatrician advised us to let them play in the mud, dirt, grass, water, etc. Said kids need exposure to that sort of thing to help their immune systems along, and our current society mindset of scrubbing and sanitizing everything in sight wasn't doing them any favors.
I didn't tell him that our kids were already wallowing around outside, all on their own.
My hope was that they would be at or near breeding size by the time the pond warmed up enough to put them back in. Thought of starting them with a smaller amount of water, and increasing water as they grew. Problem is, this would not work with one of those filters that hangs on the back of an aquarium...so looking at canister filters.
Any ideas or input on off-the-shelf filters? What i have seen so far would cost $140-$300 for canister filters. The ones that hang off the back of an aquarium I can get for about $50 each...would take three to four for a full tote.
Speaking of Tilapia I caught a nice Overton's tilapia a few minutes ago.
Big fish!
You'll have to excuse me but even though I have blue tilapia in one of my tanks I'm by no means an expert on tilapia. I'm guessing that's a Mozambique?
My hope was that they would be at or near breeding size by the time the pond warmed up enough to put them back in. Thought of starting them with a smaller amount of water, and increasing water as they grew. Problem is, this would not work with one of those filters that hangs on the back of an aquarium...so looking at canister filters.
Any ideas or input on off-the-shelf filters? What i have seen so far would cost $140-$300 for canister filters. The ones that hang off the back of an aquarium I can get for about $50 each...would take three to four for a full tote.
Sean
Why not build your own system and filters that can handle up to 100 lbs. of fish?
A circular 5 to 8 foot Stock tank $200.00 2 blue 55 gallon drums $20.00K A 60 watt 10 to 15 gpm mag drive pump $40.00 A 40 watt 60 lpm (2.1 cfm) linear air pump $145.00 PVC fittings and pipe $50.00 or less A knife gate valve $30.00 PVC glue and primer $6.00 Two membrane diffusers $70.00 1/2 inch air line 10 feet $15.00 1 inch water line 10 feet $20.00 Garden mesh material for filter netting $15.00 Cinder blocks $25.00 Allied Aqua media 2 to 4 cubic feet $50.00 to $100.00
If you can find a used plastic stock tank you could probably knock $150.00 off the total.
You could use dual stones instead of the membrane diffusers and save about $30.00.
It will pay for itself in one or two uses depending on how many tilapia you buy.
You can hatch 'em in an aquarium once you have brood fish.
15' wont work without moving a support that is directly under a Jacuzzi type bathtub, but 12' fits nice.
I was worried about springing a leak with the pools and not being aware of the situation as it is occurring, then I slapped myself and reminded me of what I do for a living
All good info guy's, and thanks a bunch for starting this thread Brian.
From my limited knowledge about RAS systems, you have to size the filter according to how many pounds of fish or rather how many pounds of food you are feeding per day. Not how many gallons of water are in the system.
From my limited knowledge about RAS systems, you have to size the filter according to how many pounds of fish or rather how many pounds of food you are feeding per day. Not how many gallons of water are in the system.
Yep here's a nice little guide using an mbbr I sent to highflyer. Compliments of one of the Pentair/ AES catalogs. You can easily build these yourself.
We are good for way more food than we'll feed for the fish weight we are trying to grow!!
As the water temps go, so will the food go. We have added grow lights to make green water to use the Nitrate produced by the process, and if needed, we will change out water as needed. Our well water comes out at 68.5 degrees fahrenheit, so temp swings should be controlled.
Sounds good Brian. Just keep monitoring your ammonia and nitrites and remember Murphy's Law especially applies to raising fish in RAS.'
Did you ever find out how many lpm or cfm the Tetra whisper AP300 puts out? I've been all over the Internet and haven't found it yet. All I can find is it's good for up to 300 gal tanks, which doesn't mean squat.
But 7.5 watts sounds amazing even if it's only 30 or 40 lpm!
Cecil, When I get back to the farm, I'll time filling a 2 liter bottle and let you know. I know I have the data somewhere and if I find it, I'll let you know.
A certified and calibrated 100,000 gallon tank filling over a period of several weeks/months would be more accurate but if all ya got is a two liter bottle.....
Enjoying following along on your project man! Please keep us in the loop!
I'll fill the bottle with water, turn it up side down, and place it in my IBC with the air leads inside. I will then set it to the depth I want to test and turn on the air pump and time. The beauty of this plan is that I can test it at several depths and know how the pump is doing at those depths.
And just so Bill D. does not cry foul, I plan on using a NIST calibrated three liter bottle and a NIST calibrated chronograph.
I'll fill the bottle with water, turn it up side down, and place it in my IBC with the air leads inside. I will then set it to the depth I want to test and turn on the air pump and time. The beauty of this plan is that I can test it at several depths and know how the pump is doing at those depths.
And just so Bill D. does not cry foul, I plan on using a NIST calibrated three liter bottle and a NIST calibrated chronograph.
I'll fill the bottle with water, turn it up side down, and place it in my IBC with the air leads inside. I will then set it to the depth I want to test and turn on the air pump and time. The beauty of this plan is that I can test it at several depths and know how the pump is doing at those depths.
And just so Bill D. does not cry foul, I plan on using a NIST calibrated three liter bottle and a NIST calibrated chronograph.
Why not just spend a few bucks on a Dwyer flowmeter? I think I have 6 of them here for air, but they only go to 25LPM. I could send you a couple and you could set up 2 with a common inlet and common outlet and get to 50. I gave esshup 4 of them for future use.
25LPM is 0.88CFM. If you set your MBBR up with proper dimensions, right type of diffusers and proper fill, should only take 4LPM at depth per cubic foot of media to make it work really well.
Sorry, but I have a bad habit of calling engineers that do this for a living. Some of the Chinese media out there, you really have to beat the snot out of it to make it work tho.
Dang, out in the woods and where did all these bugs come from?
The RM and VF series are quite economical and you can get various accuracies depending on models/features, or even do the NIST thing, but I wouldn't go that far.
I believe Ted had a VF series at esshup's gig when you guy's were playing around with it. I may have scolded someone here for not holding it in proper attitude
I have the RM series with the needle valve for air and a couple of the VF for clean water. Gotta find them tho, but they are in a box someplace. (recently moved and boxes all over)
Nice thing about using a flowmeter, as well as a pressure gauge is you can get an indication of declining performance. This is what is was when everything is new, now pressure and flow are changing and then you can then trace the system back and find out why. Neat little preventative maintenance or potential failure tools.
Nothing fancy on this rig. Intex pools should be here either this Friday or next Monday.
Basically have about 1200 sq-ft in the basement to work with. Working on a floor layout in Autocad on how everything is going to fit and how I'm gonna run the electrical and plumbing.
Bought 4 stock tanks earlier this year, (have 6) but don't think I'll be using them for anything significant. Probably only use the 2 rubbermaid's, and want to use a 3' x 8' oval tank and create a little stream type tank and possibly get some creek chubs. Baitfish are a bunch of fun!, but don't think I can get that one down the basement, well, without some demolition.
There are limitations of what I can get down there in one piece. Petco had a sale on 40G breeder tanks, so I got 4 of them. I built a 1 piece stand for all 4 to the maximum size I could get down there, and with care I cleared everything by 1/4". Reason I did that is I had to redesign my rectangular tanks to a 2 piece assembly to get them down stairs. I made the wood stand quite heavy, but it's still quite a bit lighter than the steel sections and just didn't want to get anything stuck.
I don't think I need very accurate information about air flow, so I will start with the three liter bottle. If I can find the right flowmeter, I'll get it and take better readings.
Most importantly, when are you going to show us what you are up to?
I just moved back here a few months ago, so let me sort it out
Basic bones at the moment and probably have to cold start, which is really not that big of a deal.
Nice thing is the layout is going well and I can just U-Bolt on some Uni-Strut to the columns running down the center and mount the junction boxes with remote I/O covering control and monitoring over Modbus thru a cyclic gateway.
It actually don't hurt as bad as it sounds, but that is what these are intended for.
I don't think I need very accurate information about air flow, so I will start with the three liter bottle. If I can find the right flowmeter, I'll get it and take better readings.
Thanks for the advise.
Keep us updated about your project.
Search ebay if you think you may need something.
It's best maybe not to know anything more than understanding a chart in a sales catalog. Not much more would be really needed here.
I needed something to neutralize chlorine for three of the four high school systems I set up that use municipal water. I know if there aren't any chloromines, letting the make up water set for a few days, or better yet aerating it will do the job, but I need to keep things simple and instant for these guys.
Anyway, was going to order it from Pentaire/AES, but remembered their prices tend to be on the high side and then there's the shipping from Florida! Found a much more economical replacement (Amquel)on Ebay with FREE shipping.
Well we added some lights to grow green water the last day or so. It will be interesting to see how they do. Here is the temp setup to see how they do. These are aquarium rated lights.
So far the water temps are very favorable using one solar heater. We have three installed so we can add a lot more heat this winter. As it turns out, Tilapia like warm water even in the winter.
We had several spawns last year in the tanks and the green water seemed to help some of them survive. Also, the green water uses up some of the nitrates, so water changes should be less frequent.
Also we will be putting some "structure" in each habitat tank in one corner each so any fry will have some place to go until we can net them out and place them in a aquarium to grow them out.
I don't know if it will do any good, but the data will tell all!!
We had several spawns last year in the tanks and the green water seemed to help some of them survive. Also, the green water uses up some of the nitrates, so water changes should be less frequent.
Also we will be putting some "structure" in each habitat tank in one corner each so any fry will have some place to go until we can net them out and place them in a aquarium to grow them out.
I don't know if it will do any good, but the data will tell all!!
Makes sense. The only place my systems have greenwater is one that is set up in a greenhouse.
Well the Tilapia survived the cool down and all the rain we received last week and weekend rather well. We were able to maintain 'mid 80's temperatures. The cloud cover also tested the solar power system.
On that note, we need to add a few more solar panels to the mix to ensure we have enough power for half of our power needs.
Also, certain areas of the "Igloo" need to be painted. That should be under way next week.
Those pools are going to be a bit more work than anticipated. Gonna have to build an elevated platform and am working out the details for a center drain with some stuff I have here. Yeah, sucking it from the center bottom, up and over the side walls will cause problems I do not want to encounter. Mainly, the centrifugal pumps will macerate the solids so bad that I'll end up with a massive TDS (Total Dissolved Solids) issue in short order. I thought about getting a gentler pump, but that is just going to cost a pile more and won't really negate the issue very long. Eventually the pumps will have to be cleaned and I want to take all of the advantages of running the pumps from my PF drives in SVC mode.
I hope you're flying MI, because I just ordered a new Amprobe meter yesterday, FedEx delivery, and I'm like a little kid waiting for Christmas morning My older, but nice one came up missing while working at a customers, but this new one is Super Sweet!! I may just brag about it
.... Gonna have to build an elevated platform and am working out the details for a center drain with some stuff I have here. Yeah, sucking it from the center bottom, ...
Interesting..I have been trying to find a large aquarium with a bottom drain with no success. I would really like a drain with a valve where I can hook up a garden hose for draining. I suspect the fear of a leak at the drain/tank interface, that could wipe out some guys living room, is the issue that makes them not available/hard to find. I want to put mine in the basement near a floor drain so a leak would cause zero damage for me, except the possible loss of critters in the tank.
Bill, these are just 12' diameter x 30" deep Intex pools. I think about 1700 gallons or so. There is a sump pit in the basement with a submersible pump I exorcise on a regular basis just to make sure it's working. A few years ago, pump didn't work, and with the rains and water table that year, ended up with about 9" in the basement. Yeah, it was a mess with a finished room down there, but that's been removed for the most part.
Interesting..I have been trying to find a large aquarium with a bottom drain with no success. I would really like a drain with a valve where I can hook up a garden hose for draining.
Sounds like you have a possible leak covered as well. I may have to give up the aquarium with a drain unless I bite the bullet and build one. Other option would be to do something like you are doing on a much smaller scale. I have tons of heated basement space but just looking for a tank to play with. Somewhere I can toss a little fish to grow out or maybe as a brood tank for a few SFS, BNM, scuds, etc.
Interesting..I have been trying to find a large aquarium with a bottom drain with no success. I would really like a drain with a valve where I can hook up a garden hose for draining.
Thanks. The part that bothers me is where each one says, "Use with care and coolant." So I spend a few hundred on an aquarium and crack out the bottom cutting a hole. I want one where they take the risk of cutting the hole!
Thanks. The part that bothers me is where each one says, "Use with care and coolant." So I spend a few hundred on an aquarium and crack out the bottom cutting a hole. I want one where they take the risk of cutting the hole!
Interesting..I have been trying to find a large aquarium with a bottom drain with no success. I would really like a drain with a valve where I can hook up a garden hose for draining.
Thanks. The part that bothers me is where each one says, "Use with care and coolant." So I spend a few hundred on an aquarium and crack out the bottom cutting a hole. I want one where they take the risk of cutting the hole!
You can actually hire that part out. Just find someone who does this for a living and pay them.
After thinking about it, if I can find a tank like yours, except only 3 or 4 feet in diameter, that will serve my purpose and be a lot cheaper solution.
Because from my experience, and other's I know, the old adage -- it's not a matter of if, but when -- applies to water on the floor.
And you will kill fish. Everyone has.
Trust me I don't care how smart you or how prepared you think you are. Ask Nasa if they have a perfect record with all those brilliant engineers. Lots of parts that can fsil in even the simplest systems. Stuff happens, equipment fails, people forget, and if anything can go wrong it will. Yada, yada, yada. All you can do is try and be preemptive with back ups etc.
Your fish are a heartbeat away from as hostile an environment as outerspace is to us.
And you have to be vigilant. I've actually become so used to the sounds my tanks make (water and pumps) that I can tell something's off by the sound.
The other day I noticed the return flow into one of my tanks was significantly reduced. Turns out a combination of mulm and a crushed piece of plastic media was blocking my waterline to the side bottom of the mbbr from the pump. I have a screen to keep the media out of the return water line but this particular piece was so compressed it was able to get through and wedge there.
Looking at how some of these work, probably only going to be able to use them on the pressure side of things for filling tanks and such, and apparently won't work as a tank drain valve. RainBird has a 3 year warranty, so I guess that's pretty good.
Irritrol has a 5 year warranty on their valves, that's even better.
Well I spent few days improving T3 and I must say it is looking good. We added three more solar panels to the electric production side and now we are making power even with full cloud cover. Also, we upgraded the first solar heater by 25%.
Also, I move the new LED light to the solar power side. It runs for 14 hours as daylight and 10 hours a night as moonlight. Also, I readjusted the air going into the MBBR tank allowing for better media movement.
Here is a picture of the media flowing.
And of course, we are getting a little green water.
Now about the fish, I had some help from a friend and we were able to seine out another 10 large fish and around 50 smaller fish to add to the system. It was work, but the weather was perfect!!
Well after that, I was able to build the last "top" for the second tank and I then was able to reset the lights and set them up for best production. For the grow lights, we now have 13 hours a day of grow light and we have another hour of light from the new LED light and then we have 10 hours of Moonlight for full coverage.
Here is how the lights look.
While I would like to do more, we did have a lot of rain today and that ended the outdoor work on the solar system. I plan to add a second solar heater system this weekend. That is all we are doing to get ready for the winter. This either works, or it doesn't.
Sure hope this works, we have put a lot into it, and I really hope it is not all for not.
Currently on deployment but was thinking about making one of these too for when I get home, do you have any advise for some one building a fish tote tank for the first time?
I would build a RDF filter for solids. I like the m3 media for the bio balls, but I think there is better on the market now. I like my solar heaters and I like having my igloo in the barn.
I also like to grow green water for the fish as it helps balance the water chemistry and provides an alternate food source.
The Totes are okay, but if you have the space, use a round tank(s), you will have a cleaner setup with less maintenance and you can hold more fish.
Use a center drain.
Use airlift and gravity.
Read everything you can about the Nitrogen cycle, and get a tester.
Know your limits and do not go past them unless you like killing a lot of fish.
Find a friend who has done this and learn from them. If unable to find a friend, go back to Youtube and find a virtual friend and learn form them. Then find another virtual friend and see how they do it, rinse and repeat until you find what works for you.
We are on version 3 and already we have tweaked it some. The learning curve is steep.
Not that I have found, I have been taking samples and the Ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate levels are great. 0,0,2 PPM lately, and the PH remains at 7.4-7.6. The temps are 80-82F. As we have added more fish, I expect to see different levels, but that will be because the extra food. The media is rated for 3-6 pounds of food a day and we will be nowhere near those levels, so I expect good numbers going forward.
Do you think the LED lights add anything to the green water production?, or is the spectrum just not there? Just never looked that close at LED other than for control stuff.
I have some 6500K 99.8% spectrum fluorescent lights left over from the Florida Building (that was at my shop), those should work pretty good. Also have some 2' fixtures with similar bulbs that I use in my mini green house.
Maybe I'll give the green water a whirl in one of my 40G breeder tanks. Like you say, the learning curve is up there, and I'll need GW for future plans.
Is the green water something you are propagating or did it just show up?
Bill,
It's intentional. Brian described his intentions, and he can fill you in more.
Typically, it's for first feeding and more with some species that don't readily take to prepared feeds after their yolk sac is absorbed. Food source if you will, that's built into the system that the fish are natural to.
Really kinda neat, but think there might need to be some production control??? I could never get over the thought that GW could eventually whack a biofilter, but with an MBBR, could be a mute point. Although still suspect some cling on value in the overall scheme.
Thanks! So how do you go about growing your own green water? I apologize if the question has already been answered but I could not find it.... but I am old and easily distracted.
Thanks! So how do you go about growing your own green water? I apologize if the question has already been answered but I could not find it but I am old and easily distracted.
Light, just like your pond grows algae. That's what GW is.
If you take Tramadol, your attention span is all of 15 seconds
Interesting. 40 years ago when I had many aquariums, I never got green water. Must be a difference in filtration. Back then IIRC it was activated charcoal, filter floss and lots of aeration gave you gin clear water.
My lights are setup to grow green water, and like phil said it is the temp of the bulbs that matters. My white LEDs are 7500K which should be great to produce Green water. Also the Florescent lights are of a proper temp and should add a lot of light into the tanks. Its about the temp of the light produced. If you look at the light algae likes and add it to your tanks, you will grow it. A side benefit of the algae is the fact that it uses nitrate for food. Nitrate is a by product of the bacteria using the ammonia produced by the fish (ammonia, nitrite,nitrate). The ammonia is produced by the fish metabolizing their food. The nitrogen cycle.
I could try to keep the water clear, or I can promote green water and use its benefits. Yes I have to clean the tanks better at the end of the season, but that is a small price to pay for the protection and production.
John, consult your doctor if you can remember this post that long.
I'll check with our lighting guy's at work and see what they have in LED. I know they install a lot of them.
A salesman brought in a demo unit that has a 120Vac control module and you can control the intensity with a 0-10V analog signal, or a dimmer switch, but with analog you don't get that "click on" effect.
Just an observation with LED bulbs I purchased at the local Ace. They seem to have issues with my dimmer switch and either pulsate or pop off. My regular bulbs don't do that.
I keep my light on all the time in my tank room at a lw level as any turning on and off of the light causes the fish to panic and bounce off the tank walls. Befre I had netting over the tank I had some jump out.
I was talking entire LED fixture assemblies and not just bulbs. I know we sell fluorescent bulbs and have contracts with a number of institutions and banks to replace bulbs (need to be disposed of properly, which cost money), but never heard of anyone just screwing in an LED bulb to replace a CF or incandescent. I know we've tested some LED bulbs with dismal results, but think the proper technology is in the entire fixture assembly that fires the LED.
There is some neat stuff out there in LED tho. When that guy showed up with the demo unit, boss had him look into a warehouse that has 12 HID fixtures that eat a whole bunch of watts. He came back and said he could put more light in with only 4 LED fixtures at a fraction of the energy.
Boss works closely with the power company and they give decent rebates to commercial/industrial/farms if you go the energy efficient route with lighting or motor controls. I usually upgrade 1 coaster per year and the rebates for installing a VFD, along with the rate cut per KWH (yep, they will cut your rates), usually pays for itself pretty quick. At $60.00/HP or light fixture, it can add up. I got the PF753 for Timbers (with negotiations) for just a tad more than the power company was going to give them in rebates. It was darn near free.
Unfortunately, there are no residential programs like this, which really bites!
Kinda figured out the new meter today: ACDC-54NAV Pretty cool so far
I know we sell fluorescent bulbs and have contracts with a number of institutions and banks to replace bulbs (need to be disposed of properly, which cost money), but never heard of anyone just screwing in an LED bulb to replace a CF or incandescent.
I have a light over the kitchen sink that I leave on a lot, shutting it off when I go to bed.
I swapped out this for the CFL, which was installed when I went from incandescent to CFL.
The new place is probably 95% LED lighting. We have lots of can lights on cathedral ceilings. Getting too dang old to climb ladders all the time to change out bulbs. Those that aren't LED are CFL. I will replace those with LED once I run out of CFL bulbs. I'm hooked on the LED, especially now that the price is creeping down.
I know we sell fluorescent bulbs and have contracts with a number of institutions and banks to replace bulbs (need to be disposed of properly, which cost money), but never heard of anyone just screwing in an LED bulb to replace a CF or incandescent.
I have a light over the kitchen sink that I leave on a lot, shutting it off when I go to bed.
I swapped out this for the CFL, which was installed when I went from incandescent to CFL.
You guys are installing the latest and greatest, and the light fixtures I'm building for our renovation will utilize those "Edison" bulbs.... go figure!
They do produce some of the nostalgia bulbs in LED also, I believe.
Well today I had some help and got the other big solar powered water heater installed. Yes I can Hear Sunil from here.
So now we have around 2500 watts of solar heat available!!
As you can see form this pic, the fish are happy, the bottom of the tank remains mostly clean, and we are making more green water!! The Ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate remain 0,0, 2 and the temp remained 80.5. The batteries have taken a bit of a hit these last few days, but they are only down 20% so I am happy about that. I did rewire the solar panels to make more amps and watts in lower light conditions.
Tomorrow should tell.
Oh about all the rain, Note to self. Pull the drain plug more often....
Things are looking much better for this winter, the big pond continues to flush, the trees are turning, The firewood stack is massive, and T3 seems to be setup very well.
About LEDs for the house, I have started to convert, they are much better lights and the cost is coming down. It is just a matter of time before I am LED only.
Well the rewiring of the solar panels did make a little more power during twilight but it cost me too much during daylight operations, so I went back to the higher voltage setup. I was able to make over 600 watts continuous during the midday sun. In fact, I was able to make more than 3KWH yesterday. The batteries were able to retuned to a full status after several days of complete cloud cover and over 3 inches of rain with several hours of sunshine to spare!
Also, I had time to try a new airlift setup. It worked better and is now moving more water using less air.
What I did: I took the 2 inch up pipes and added four 1/8 inch hose barbs to each one and then added the air lines. I am now moving about 25% more water on 20% less air. I will work on a newer up pipe over the next few weeks and see if I can do even better.
All in all, this week was a substantial improvement for T3. With the extra heater running for 3 hours, I added three degrees to the entire body of water. I then turned off the extra heater and flushed out the poo tank. After the refill, I was right back at 80.5 degrees F. So with just a little planning, I think we are in a very good place for this winter.
The fish are eating well and the system seems to be in great shape. When we get our first few really cold nights, we should have more data points to add to our knowledge base.
The one thing I do need to find are robust DC switches. I would like 200VDC 15 AMP switches to turn the heaters on and off with. Anyone know of a good place to find them?
Need heater specs, but I would look into an SSR (Solid State Relay) or suitable power relay, then fire that with low voltage DC and use a fuse for circuit protection.
Searching around for stuff Brian could use, the first thing I was looking for was a disconnect switch or load switch rated for his high voltage DC. I found quite a few, but they don't give that stuff away. Yikes$$$
Anyway, after reading a number of spec manuals from ABB, Allen Bradley, Square D... I came across some info on using these AC rated load switches with DC.
The pic is of an ABB 16amp 3 pole AC load switch. Designed primarily for 3 phase equipment.
Look at the top row of terminals marked 1L1, 3L2, 5L3, then the bottom row marked 2T1, 4T2, and 6T3.
Here's the LEGAL trick. If you bring your high positive VDC into 1L1 from the PV, then run a wire from 2T1 on the bottom to 3L2 on the top, and do the same and run a wire from 4T2 on the bottom to 5L3 on the top, then connect 6T3 to your load, which is the heater, the switch is now rated for 220VDC at 16 Amps. These are ABB's published ratings, and is legal to use in this manner per NEC code. If you just ran it thru 1 contact, it's only rated for about 48VDC, but series wiring the 3 contacts bumps it up quite a bit.
ABB does make a purely DC rated load switch for PV, but it's >4X the dollars.
You can use this as a disconnect and a means of turning on and off your heater as long as the load side from 6T3 is fused properly.
List price is $40.98 each from: Kendall Electric There is some additional hardware you need and a NEMA rated enclosure to mount it in, if an inspector is on the prowl We'll cover that later. I logged into our account at Kendall and it's like $9.00 cheaper, but I could just email it to our account manager for a quote and he'll get me a few more bucks off. Free shipping as well. (They deliver every day to the shop)
Also ran across that NEC2014 requires that every solar installation must have a means of disconnecting PV panels from the load they are supplying, and this fits that code for this application.
please do Brian... we had an employee a few years ago get in pond water to fix a fountain and he was electrocuted as his granddaughter watched from shore.
Had a nice phone chat with Brian today. Sheesh, I don't much like driving in 40kt winds close to the ground, and he's flying in this!
Anyway, just a simple question on the load switch, which I thought I would clarify to everyone here, as well as a few other things.
Unlike many other switches of this type, the poles on ABB switches are symmetrical, meaning that power flow can be reversed. Instead of looping from the bottom of one pole to the top of another pole, you can simply jumper across from 2T1>>>4T2 on the bottom, then 3L2>>>5L3 on the top. Makes for a cleaner installation, and less wire. But if you are not sure, loop.
It is a growing trend for these reverse flow characteristics in a lot of devices. Eaton recently released a new line of circuit breakers that you can reverse feed. I've used these on the last 2 projects, and it's kinda difficult to get use to the concept that your line could be coming into the bottom of a device like this. It was forever since the dawn of history, line>top, load>bottom, power flow, so everyone was on the same page.
I kinda like it tho. Akin to my quirk about people who must have decimal dimensions on drawings equal fractions or they get lost because it's not on a chart. What's the big deal?
Also, keep in mind that this rig is way below 250VDC and feeding a purely resistive load with appropriate circuit protection. I could go on, but Brian has it well covered.
Went to lunch today about 3:30pm, and the water level in Spring Lake is up a good +3' or so. Waves from LM with winds from the west pounding the shoreline and pushing lake water back up the river. It was right around bottom of dock level, which is fairly significant. Starting to calm down tho, so should recede back to the lake.
Phil, Thanks again for the clarification. I'll PM you about the switches, I think I am getting two to work with. I did also get the Midnite combiner/disconnecter box and three 10 amp DC breakers. They are on the way.
The switches will be added to this or another project.
Temps and water quality are looking great. I think we are in a much better place this year. Now I need the Barry White music to start playing. I need more numbers.
I got a tad concerned because browsing the net I saw some selling what appears to be a circuit breaker but it's actually a supplementary protector. They look the same, but in no way can you use one in place of a real circuit breaker.
I got this barrel at the little store where I picked up the other ones a while back: (the one on the right)
Basically the same dimensions of the LSB3 rig shown in Cecil's pic. Well, it's 1/2" larger in diameter. They are going to try get more. The top is removable with the band clamp. Had some sort of non-active powdered pill binder in it. They had some other ones, basically the same size, but where the two ribs are toward the top, it tapered quite a bit and thought that might not work so well with a uni-seal. Because of the height, I might not need a platform under it.
I'm using the other ones with the handles for storing stuff. Keep stuff nice and dry out in the sticks.
I need to find one more blue barrel for my fourth and last high school to fill for water changes. My usual supplier, which is a factory that makes carmel popcorn and other products,refuses to save one for me, and when I call they tell me they'll check and call me back. Never do.
They never give me a receipt ether, but when they do have one the price is right at $10.00. And the barrel smells good for a while!
If esshup buzzes up here for RBT after hunting, and if he want's to haul them back, I'll just give you, or anyone all of the closed top barrels I have. Either had Sunny Delight or Dr. Pepper concentrate in them. Both 55G and 30G. Blue was Dr. Pepper and white was Sunny D. All rinsed out really well with the well water from my former shop.
The open top barrels are $15.00 ea, but that saves you the trouble of cutting the top off. Plus, it's really clean looking, and you can modify the lid to your pleasure without messing up the barrel.
Thanks Phil for the generous offer but believe I found one after I made my post. Scott has a supplier by him too but Scott is a 2 hour round trip for me.
It's a Rural King on my way to the high school on Thursday.
I'm lucky, there is a place on the way from the house to the farm that has a never ending supply!! I'm almost to the friends and family discount at this point!!
I'm lucky, there is a place on the way from the house to the farm that has a never ending supply!! I'm almost to the friends and family discount at this point!!
This place is on the shortest route to work, but rarely go that way. 19 miles of twists, turns, hills and plenty of slow drivers. Not many places to pass at all and you might be the 20th vehicle behind the slow person. The other day it was like top speed of 34 in a 55, and I was way back! All you do at that point is enjoy the scenery.
The other route I take is a few miles longer, but they will whip you the bird if you are not at least 10 over the speed limit on certain roads, which the fines can be substantial up here, but never, ever, saw a cop on those roads. Always a first time tho.
I'm usually one of those 5-8 MPH over guy's, and no problem with those that want to pass. 10 MPH over is where they usually take interest up here, if it's sustained speed.
We should know in a hour or so if the new firmware makes more power!!
Cecil,
The water is still green. Some days it is greener than other days. I am contemplating adding a cap full of fertilizer to the water to see if that helps.
Also, we have new bulbs for the flood lights coming this weekend. They should give off more light in the right range to help generate more green water.
If esshup buzzes up here for RBT after hunting, and if he want's to haul them back, I'll just give you, or anyone all of the closed top barrels I have. Either had Sunny Delight or Dr. Pepper concentrate in them. Both 55G and 30G. Blue was Dr. Pepper and white was Sunny D. All rinsed out really well with the well water from my former shop.
The open top barrels are $15.00 ea, but that saves you the trouble of cutting the top off. Plus, it's really clean looking, and you can modify the lid to your pleasure without messing up the barrel.
Food for thought.
I bought another barrel for sap storage this year as well. Removeable, clamp type lid, and for once it didn't formerly contain a substance that was awful to scrub out. Dried chilies. Simple to clean, no odor. Lid has a replaceable seal, and they are liquid tight. Will probably switch out the other barrels for this type next season.
We should know in a hour or so if the new firmware makes more power!!
Cecil,
The water is still green. Some days it is greener than other days. I am contemplating adding a cap full of fertilizer to the water to see if that helps.
Any thoughts?
Not sure I would add fertilizer. Your feed should be enough especially once your fish load increases. Sounds like your nitrates and or alkalinity are too low? Another possibility is you are getting rid of your solids too fast. In Aquaponics the solids release nutrients better if they are allowed to break down a little.
I get that. I did not know about the break down of solids as well as I should have, I get it now, that makes sense. I have been adding a little more feed each day and the fish are readily eating it. I might try adding just a little more feed daily.
Can someone explain to me how the algae helps balance an aquaculture system? This is a new concept to me. People on the aquaponics forums freak out if they have algae blooms. Personally i dont fret about them. My outdoor system seems to get one every year in the spring when the weather first starts to warm up but it lasts a couple weeks and then dissipates. I know tilapia are filter feeders and can eat the algae using filtering in their gills. But algae can also cause PH fluctuation and if you arent aerating at night it can cause low O2 for the fish.
I am not arguing one way or the other, just making a pros and cons list. And i feel like i must bee leaving some 'pros' out.
I build algae blooms ibc tanks like yours to feed sunfish larva/fry. I start with aquaponics water (adds a lot of N) and add some rock phospate (adds a lot of P) and the water looks like lime green jello in 24 hours. You should be getting plenty of N and micronutrients from the fish/fish food. If you already already have pond fertilizer on hand, for sure use that but if you are looking for an inexpensive fish safe/organic addition a couple of tablespoons of rock phosphate is probably all you need to really set your bloom off.
I want the algae for the fry if I get a spawn or two. I aerate 24/7. I am keeping the water temps around 80F. We are feeding the Tilapia more aggressively now that the bio media is fully mature.
Also I have been told that green water limits male tilapia "bed" size and hopefully this will also cut down on bad behavior on their part.
Those are the hopes.
PH is steady at 7.4-7.6
Also, you have to remember, I am just over wintering Tilapia because I want the fish for the next season in the ponds, so my motives are a little different than aquaponics folks.
If esshup buzzes up here for RBT after hunting, and if he want's to haul them back, I'll just give you, or anyone all of the closed top barrels I have. Either had Sunny Delight or Dr. Pepper concentrate in them. Both 55G and 30G. Blue was Dr. Pepper and white was Sunny D. All rinsed out really well with the well water from my former shop.
The open top barrels are $15.00 ea, but that saves you the trouble of cutting the top off. Plus, it's really clean looking, and you can modify the lid to your pleasure without messing up the barrel.
Food for thought.
I bought another barrel for sap storage this year as well. Removeable, clamp type lid, and for once it didn't formerly contain a substance that was awful to scrub out. Dried chilies. Simple to clean, no odor. Lid has a replaceable seal, and they are liquid tight. Will probably switch out the other barrels for this type next season.
Spark - Yeah, those mostly contain solids of some sort and are internally lined, well, with a liner before they dump product in, so the liner contains stuff and the barrels are really clean.
Bought a few closed top that had liquid smoke, and that was like tar. Didn't know it at the time and got a half dozen for my sister, and two for my mom. When we got into that mess, I felt really bad, gave them their money back and sold them at an auction to a horse farm for a whole lot more than I paid. Auctioneer listed it as food grade, and was open to the public for personal inspection
I have a garage aquaculture system that i use to overwinter tilapia as well. So i am understanding of your goals. I dont try to get them to spawn in my garage system, is that one of your goals?
Usually the numbers in crowding is enough to protect the fish from aggressive males.
If you want fry to live you will need to consider a couple of things 1) some sort of protection from predation in the ibc, and 2) some way to keep them from going into the aquaculture plumbing (or an inline trap to catch them once they leave the ibc through your drain.
This is an intex pool but i have also done overwintering in IBC. I have 200 in that 900 gallon pool. I have don 40-50 in a ~250 gallon ibc
I'll bet that liquid smoke was nasty. I once set about re-purposing a barrel (or two) that contained butter. Never again.
Really nasty. It was like baked on and flowing at the same time. My Honda pressure washer would not even touch the stuff, and that's when everyone gave up. Pretty much like Tar.
Sorry for the people that bought them, but the auction was run by another company and I had no say in the content on how they advertised.
HF: The green water is probably a good thing for the fry. I let my tanks get as much of that as possible before the fry are born. I also let a lot of solids build up at that time. There seems to be conflicting knowledge on whether the fry eat the waste from the mother. Some say yes, others say no. I personally have found that the fry grow faster if there is an abundance of solids from the mother at the time the fry are released, as compared to keeping the tank clear. I've done both ways. Within a few weeks of them roaming around, the tanks get to be very cleaned, just like a filtering system, till they get about an 1" long. Then it comes to an end.
I will agree with bcotton about the difficulties he mentions of having any fry in your set-up. To add to those thoughts, the mother gets very defensive when the fry are released, and can stay this way for weeks after. I could see the possibility that she will literally die from exhaustion defending here fry. That, or she will kill others keeping them away. I think it would go one way or the other.
I do have structure made out of 1/4 inch netting in both IBCs. It is a cylinder about 8 inches in diameter that runs top to just off the bottom. Further I do have both drains "protected" by the same netting. After that, I then have a filter that would also stop the fry from gaining access to the rest of the system.
FnC,
Thanks for the view point. I had not read that either, I'll do some more reading. Is there any report or article you would point me towards? Rex told me to add some "Housing" for the mothers if I am trying to get the fry numbers. I am working on that as well.
For now, it looks like I have the basics working well and it is time to up my game!!
The thought buzzed my bean to get some to mess with. How many would one put in a small 40G tank for starters? (have 4) Also have (2) 100G and (2) 180G if needed for growth.
HF- Sorry to say, I read a lot but don't save the references very often. I have come across a lot of articles talking about the housing for the mothers. I have always assumed they were doing this housing when she is mouth brooding. She can't protect herself very much and would rather hide and have her backside protected. I think once the fry are released, they will go where they want and leave that "home", to be eaten or learn quickly and go back. Meanwhile the mother will frantically go protecting them.
I never found to much info about leaving the fry with the mother. Most will take the eggs from her and throw them into an incubator. I will say, if you want the fastest/strongest growth, the incubator seems better. The eggs/fry grow much bigger compared to leaving them mouth brooded. I contribute this to the fact the eggs in the mouth are confined and thus stunted right from the start, much like overcrowding any fish in a pond. However, incubators are more work to fuss with. Just have to figure out which way is best for you.
I have not actually sacrificed a hatch of fry by adding in other fish once the fry are released. Might be an interesting experiment sometime. The way it is now, the mother goes ballistic anytime something gets near the tank. You can actually hear her scratching the glass with her teeth. And yes, she bites any hands that go into the water...
The thought buzzed my bean to get some to mess with. How many would one put in a small 40G tank for starters? (have 4) Also have (2) 100G and (2) 180G if needed for growth.
Lots of variables there. Others are a lot more knowledgeable about carrying capacities than me. I would say if you kept it to the 40G, about 25. Keep there growth monitored so they don't get to big by spring time for release. Possibly in the 4-5" range? If you wanted to make use of all those tanks.... get hundreds!!!!
Brian - Any improvement after the firmware upgrade?
Was also wondering what LED light rig you have? Been looking at a few for aquarium rigs due to the close proximity of water, but not finding anything that I can go from true zero output to 100%. Everything seems to have that 10% or so "click factor".
Phil, The new firmware is running better numbers most of the time. The sweep is faster and a little more aggressive. The batteries are getting to float sooner in the day allowing more available heat if needed, but right now, it is not needed. We are only running one heater and it is keeping the temps around 83F.
The LED light was from marineland. I got the advanced version. It is programable for time on and off. Also, it has moonlight simulation using blue LEDs. Ours is powered off the solar power side.
The CB explanation was great. I understood it all, thanks for that!!
So currently, we are in a very good place. The water is right, the solar power is right and the heaters are right. The new CBs work like a champ and we are feeding them like the pigs they are. Now if I can get them to spawn, and we can grow out a good number, this will be our best attempt to over winter our Tilapia.
I've noticed that everyone seems to be running open top barrels for their biofilter, meaning, the media is exposed to light.
Correct me if I am wrong, but should not the media be in total darkness 100% of the time?
IDK, JKB. All media biofilters I am aware of are all open to light. Even my Fluidized Sand Bed filters use clear plastic. I think it is more important to have dissolved oxygen.
In a "green water" system, algae is the substrate for bacteria, light is essential for the algae.
I've noticed that everyone seems to be running open top barrels for their biofilter, meaning, the media is exposed to light.
Correct me if I am wrong, but should not the media be in total darkness 100% of the time?
I keep mine dark. I cut the top of a blue barrel off with a reciprocating saw where it narrows and then flip it over. Makes a perfect snug lid. However I do allow a slight crack away from the nearest light to allow carbon dioxide to escape. I also keep light dim in my fish room 24/7 with a dimmer switch.
I believe an open top is functional but my darker mbbr's increase the carrying capacity of the media especially the nitrobacters. Bacteria does not like light and an extreme example is ultraviolet light which kills bacteria.
Btw I no longer feed my mbbr's the filtered water from the top of clarifier barrel to the bottom side of the mbbr barrel. I was having issues with mulm building up in the bottom sweep of waterline from the top of the clarifier barrel to the bottom of the mbbr, which reduced flow and subsequent return flow to the fish tank. And increased pressure in the bottom of the barrel also reduces flow. And it's a PITA to disconnect the water line with water in the tank to clean out the water line! Water flies out in the second or two it takes to cap it!
I now drill a hole in the middle of one of the bunghole threaded caps of the lid of the mbbr and push the end of the water line snugly into the hole just a couple of inches. Then attach a hose clamp on the inside on the hose to assure it doesn't pull out. The end of the waterline does not make contact with the water or media in the mbbr barrel. If it does it can mess up the pattern of medIa flow.
Since the bunghole caps are positioned on the outside edge of the lids, the flow immediately goes down with the media in the barrel which goes down on the outside edge and up in the middle.
Do I get the cheap stuff, or go with engineered media?
If it were not for the seller only accepting paypal, check/money order, I would be the owner of some stuff that I have no performance data on. Blind as a bat in sunlight!
Emailed the USA supplier for the stuff from Denmark to see what they can do with price.
I cancelled the original order to check out other media, but think I'll just go back.
I really like the Allied Aqua stuff because it's pretty much identical to the Kaldness but has a little more surface area at half the price. Started out with Mb3 and turned Brian on to it, but the AA is lighter then Mb3, and requires less air to move.
I think I know what media you are referring to. Interesting stuff and concept.
I may use the AA media or some packed media I'm no longer using in the clarifier in the future vs. the netting. Trap solids with it and then blow and drain the solids out. It would be less labor intensive than spraying off the netting, and probably work better than a radial flow settler.
I use the stuff Cecil told me about. It works very well and if you look at the total costs, it is in the noise. I go with best value and the 95% solution.
T3 is running well. With six days in a row of heavy clouds, the batteries were running on empty (29%). Ultimately, we took the second air pump off solar for a day. It was an interesting data point. The good news is that we lost very little heat that week (less than two degrees). The water is green and the quality is very good.
Are you talking about the biochips? If so here's an interesting thread on it. I believe there are surface area specs listed for biochips, mb3, kaldness, and AA.
I use the stuff Cecil told me about. It works very well and if you look at the total costs, it is in the noise. I go with best value and the 95% solution.
T3 is running well. With six days in a row of heavy clouds, the batteries were running on empty (29%). Ultimately, we took the second air pump off solar for a day. It was an interesting data point. The good news is that we lost very little heat that week (less than two degrees). The water is green and the quality is very good.
The Tilapia are putting on good weight.
Now I wait to see if they spawn.
Good to hear all is well!
One of my newest high schools is running 0.25 NH3 and 1.0 nitrites. Will have to head over there and see what the problem is. I gave them 4 cubic feet of live media!
I transported it over in black garbage bags. It may have been too long a trip and some of it suffocated. It was too cold to transport it in the hauling tank.
The price jumped from ~ $37.00 to ~ $52.00 per cubic foot. Shipping is always higher than you want it to be. For some reason, they have to use a super sack and ship freight. They also charge ~$49.00 for the super sack.
I only wanted 8 cu-ft, which I don't need that much, but emailed them to see where price breaks are on quantity. That could be the reason for the price jump, because previous quote was for 14 cu-ft.
I think you should look at what the active surface area is rather than the total surface area.
I think you should look at what the active surface area is rather than the total surface area.
Absolutely!
Interestingly that is VanGorder's argument for using RBC's over the media.
The reason I mentioned that is the pic above is a bit misleading.
For the AA and K1, it states the total surface area. For the MB3 it states the SSA (Specific Surface Area). SSA = Active Surface Area = Protected Surface = usable surface to do it's thing.
SSA for K1 is ~500, SSA for AA is ~550, and SSA for MB3 is ~604. Stoney Creek sells the same stuff as AA for a bunch under the Easy Pro brand, but they list it as over 500 ft2/ft3. Maybe should give them a call
SSA for the X-1 is ~800, while total is ~850.
Just wanted to clear that up.
A bit more to it than meets the eye tho, but for practical purposes of using barrels for bioreactors and just dumping media in it, it's six of one, half a dozen of another.
I'll just get the X-1 because I have a lot of technical info on how to apply it properly, and can migrate that to one of the barrels I have. (not the one posted earlier, but the one with the red lid)
That biochip looks like a disaster waiting to happen. That one scares me
If it works in your situation, that's all that matters.
Was familiar with the surface area differences of specific etc., but sometimes I just don't go into too much detail. That gets me in trouble sometimes.
Doubt I would be interested in the biochips as I couldn't justify the cost for my small DIY systems.
The German one in the link I provided is interesting. The Germans come up with some cool technology at times.
First price break was at 17.5 ft3 for $799.00 (1/3 of a super sac). Said OK, but work out the best shipping $$$ and ship it to the shop. Have loading docks and fork trucks. See what that ends up at?
They said the price increase was due to an increase in Virgin materials to make the media. They do not use regrind material at all.
I can appreciate that after spending countless hours in recycling facilities.
18 cubic feet of the X-1 en route from Louisiana. Being committed, I was a tad reluctant to open the email and read the quote for fear of what freight charges might be. Opened all my other emails first, messed around with a few other things... OK, it's time. It was substantially lower than before for even less media. I reminded them before they quoted the freight that it was going to a business address with adequate facilities for handling semi trucks. That made a huge difference.
Anyway, had a nice chat as well. We won't discuss most of it, but went into detail about my plan for the small barrels I have. He said that all sounds good and I was getting into internal structure to mix it better. He said all I need to do in a round gizmo (my word) is induce a little bit of rotation on the media as well, so when the "coarse" bubbles are moving it up, the rotation aids that everyone is getting treated equal, and therefore does it's job better.
What are ya all using for compressors? What has worked well for you that has been reliable? Rocking piston and regen I have are way too noisy in the basement and don't want to go thru the time and expense to hush them up.
Retention time. Anyone figuring that in? I don't think it's too critical on lightly loaded systems with excessive media, but they tell me a minimum of 10 minutes.
Thanks!!
Cecil - Ever find out what happened at the school?
I use these that are designed for septic tanks. Not the cheapest but the diaphragms have lasted me for 3 years of almost 24/7 use and are easy to replace if need be. Of the five I have owned at least three years, I just replaced one diaphragm recently for the first time because the flow dropped a little. They have them available with an audible alarm if the pump fails for whatever reason. Lots of sizes available.
I use the ET60 size for my 150 gallon fish tanks and mbbr barrel for up to 4 cubic feet of media. 60 lpm but supposed to use only 40 watts of electricity. Haven't checked with meter.
Extremely quiet! I've also used them outside with no issues. Beware of cheap pumps! Got a cheap one once that didn't put out the air as advertised. Not even close.
Even though they are located inTennessee, the two guys that run it are from England and definitely sound like it!
Yeah, the extra cost for the alarm is unnecessary as I already have that part covered.
For the interim, until pressures and flows are worked out, I'm just going to get a couple cheap linears from Allied Aqua
They guaranteed them to work as advertised, and for screwing around, why spend too much.
Other thing is they had a sale on the low cost Jebo heaters, so picked up a half dozen of the 300 watt job's. I figure the elements should work OK, as most do, until they fry due to lack of proper circuit protection, but with these, I believe the controller would smoke first.
Silly me was all worried about getting the barrels fabricated to meet the media when it arrives within the next few days. On the way home, thought, why not just dump a bunch in the 40g breeder tanks, toss some bubbles in, pop the biowheel rigs on the tanks, toss some food in to grow the bacteria and kill 2 birds with one stone. I still have some quirks
JKB has thoughtfully provided the equation for conversion between buttload and crapload earlier.
Well he left out boatload. And wheelbarrowload.
When I contact Rainman to schedule delivery of Yolk Sac's Christmas forage, will Rex understand just what a crapload of Gizzard Shad entails? I hate leaving such things to chance.
You guys are way over my head on this. As an aerospace engineer we need to be precise so I can tell you we measure everything in dabs, pinches and "just a bits".
You guys are way over my head on this. As an aerospace engineer we need to be precise so I can tell you we measure everything in dabs, pinches and "just a bits".
You guys are way over my head on this. As an aerospace engineer we need to be precise so I can tell you we measure everything in dabs, pinches and "just a bits".
Spent some time today transferring the media from the SS to storage barrels that seal up nice. Wanted to keep the rodents out because that would be just like one of those fun places to hang around.
Measuring fairly carefully, conservatively, just shy of 23 cubic feet. I can live with that
Gonna re-purpose the super sack because those dang things are tough. Anyway, sheet inside within a plastic bag said 24 cubic feet, and I only paid for 18.
So I have to ask, how many pounds of fish are you planning for? And how big is your bio-reactor going to be? I am estimating you will need +300 gallons for your reactor tank and can handle about 20 pounds of food per day with that much bio media. At .5 to 1% food vs fish weight, that is also a crapload of fish.
JKB has thoughtfully provided the equation for conversion between buttload and crapload earlier.
Well he left out boatload. And wheelbarrowload.
When I contact Rainman to schedule delivery of Yolk Sac's Christmas forage, will Rex understand just what a crapload of Gizzard Shad entails? I hate leaving such things to chance.
Well I have had a few days to read up on growing Tilapia (SRAC pubs) and now I think we are going to try for 83-85 degree water.
With the heaters, we are still making heat. They are making enough heat to raise the temp every day. But so far, the temps have only dropped into the 30 once or twice. So we will see. I do know the igloo was time well spent. It is doing its job well!!
Now we are adding more feed, I am going to see if this helps to get them to spawn!! Worse case, they will be big a healthy when we set them free in the spring.
The other lesson this year is that I want more batteries, and I think I am going 48 volts for the next install!!
Brian, One thing I never asked is what your heater voltage is?
From what I have pieced together (may not have been paying attention that much and missed something) is the solar panels are in series generating higher voltage, then running thru a charge controller, topping off batteries at 24VDC, then burning the excess off during peak times thru the heaters and lights. Anywhere close?
After Christmas, I'm going to start buying pieces and parts for a 600 watt AC rig (with some DC as well). Got this bug in my bean about using the ABB (formerly Power One) Micro Inverters. They are a grid tied rig, but have some decent info on how to trick them into thinking they are grid tied.
Some issues with that as well, because if your generating more power than your eating, you need to push it someplace to burn it off to balance it out. That's where a resistive device like a heater would come in handy.
Our heaters are running 120vDC using the panels in series. Those heaters are not tied to the charge controller. l can run the excess power from the charge controller to a third heater if I wish, but that one would only be running 28 volts. So far we do not need the third heater.
Browsing around today, I noticed the ABB micros came down in price a bit, actually seem like quite a bit from the last time I checked. Think it might just be best to start off with a 0.3Kw rig to get a feel for it. That way, if it sucks, I'm not out too much.
Yey!, they finally shipped a bunch of stuff I ordered last week. They had already created the FedEx shipping label and sent me an email that the order was complete and shipped, along with tracking. The guy sent me an email today explaining the snafu. Did the paperwork first then went to go pack it up and discovered they were out of inventory on a few things.
Now I can get some media started this weekend and install a couple of bulkheads in the fish tanks. Start getting stuff moving along.
Ever drive a 70 mile round trip to pick up pipe and fittings?
You thought you were careful when selecting from the bins, but when you got home, there was this one Odd Duck, which is a key player in what you wanted to do that day?
Ever drive a 70 mile round trip to pick up pipe and fittings?
You thought you were careful when selecting from the bins, but when you got home, there was this one Odd Duck, which is a key player in what you wanted to do that day?
I usually buy bulk and had bags of the correct ones in my cart, but a Geritol moment took over the decision process (old age and why do you need all of these?) Would have been cheaper to get it as usual. Transition effects.
Ah, yes. The other reason I use to buy in bags is no darn stickers on the fittings where you apply the cement.
Hey Brian I received your message with questions about spawning tilapia. I apologize that I have not returned your call. We are all learning from your project, and I feel this thread is an appropriate place to discuss.
I think first of all, you would need to define your program. Back to basics...what are your goals? Looks to me like you have set up a RAS production system capable of overwintering. With your overwintering system, your goal could be to hold and grow fish produced from a prior season so that you may stock em in your lake when the time is right in the spring. With this program you may be able to produce and/or hold up to 1/2 lb of fish per gallon of water.
A tilapia hatchery spawning setup is intensive and involves few fish: only one stud male, several females. Normally the tilapia will spawn without any help or special nesting material. Give the females a place to hide, and they will find cover once they have a clutch of fertilized eggs to protect. A short 8-10" section of 4" PVC pipe, capped on one end, is a good tool. If you can determine that you have a female fish in the pipe, simply trap the female by capping the open end, and move her to a separate tank or flush the eggs from her mouth and hatch them in specialized hatching jars. If you have a side view of your fish, you can identify broody females by their bulging mouths, but if you have a top view then you can't see this. Once you have successful fry production then it's game on, starting with fry powder and working up to pellets. Fry survival is critical in the captive tilapia hatching game.
From my perspective, your setup is best suited for pond tilapia production through the spring/summer, then harvest and stock your indoor system in the fall, overwinter them, and stock em in your lake in the spring...
Ever drive a 70 mile round trip to pick up pipe and fittings?
You thought you were careful when selecting from the bins, but when you got home, there was this one Odd Duck, which is a key player in what you wanted to do that day?
Go back tomorrow.
Not the same thing but I now always bring the fitting, hose section, bolt, nut etc. with me to the local Ace to make sure I get the correct corresponding part, or I invariably have to make a second trip! Eyeballing doesn't always work for me!
And people do put the wrong size back in bins especially at the hardware store!
I had that fitting in my hand and was intentionally going to purchase it, then realized that won't work correct and thought I put it back and grabbed the correct one. Guess not
The basic plan is to hold some fish over for the winter so we can restock the ponds in the spring.
Secondly, I would also like to spawn a group of fish for the grow-out ponds. So, I think it is time to set up the aquariums. We have two readily available and we did get fry powder to try this with. I have no idea if it will work or the numbers we might get, but learning is about to happen again!!!
Well I thought I should give an update on the fish in T3, after all, they are the reason for the setup.
In short, they are doing great. I have three or four really big males all around 2.5 pounds. All of the fish are getting bigger at a very respectable rate.
Here is a short video I took it after they attacked the first feeding, I tossed in some extra food to get this video:
With the weather we have been having, the solar is able to keep the water temps in the high 70's or low 80's. This week should be interesting to see as we are going to see our lowest overnight temps and some cloud cover. By the end of this week, we will know if we can make it as is.
Bryan, I have added some ceiling tiles(similar to the old asbestos tiles once used in a suspended ceiling), added them to surround the aquariums to assist in keeping the water temps up. it helped to raise the temps by 4 to 5 degrees. Have you considered some type of insulation around your tank? I keep mine in the garage where there is no central heat.
If you look back at the beginning of this thread, you should see the enclosure we made. It is insulated with R-13 and vapor barrier, We only loose about a half a degree a night with it. On sunny days we can add as much as five degrees back into the water. Our tricky spot is when it is cold and heavy overcast for days, then we loose a little at a time and have to wait for the sun to come out and "refill" our heat sink. So far 77F is as low as it has gotten. The fish seem happy and healthy and our water quality looks great.
I wonder if a tote with lots of loosely spiraled poly tubing buried in sand would be an effective heat storage system....? Similar to the way focused solar is used to create and store solar heat to run steam turbines in dark hours...
My son uses passive solar to heat the water for his house during the late spring, summer and fall. He then switches to the wood stove for his water heater. The passive consists of copper tubing enclosed in a case with a black background and clear cover.
In the summer he actually produces way too much hot water and he has to be careful that his over pressure valve is working properly on the heater tank he has.
Where Tilapitopia is much further south than my son (SE Ks) AND where the tilapia do not need 180 degree water like his kids do to have enough to mix with cold water to take showers, I wonder if a passive solar thermal water heater could not be used for the bulk of heating needs and the solar electrical resistance water heater only be needed for supplemental heat?
Son's system is nothing but copper tubing run like a radiator with a black background and enclosed clear front covering. I know he says he puts out a lot of hot water even in fairly cool temps. Don't know if it would at the temps highflyer will be experiencing. A person would have to do some research on that type systems to see if they would be suitable to do a bulk portion of the heating. If they would, not nearly as large of solar electric array would be needed. Or maybe it would for the coldest temps and days????
I hear you. I have looked into making a passive solar collector for heat. Mine is 8 feet by 12 feet. Doing the math, I could collect nearly 10,000 watts under best conditions. I have the parts, and have it on the list.
If I finish it, it will be used to heat extratopia over the winters. The real problem is that conditions are not perfect in the winter, so the output will not meet its full potential. Still, it will put out some very nice heat a lot of the time. I look at mine as a season extender in that pond.
I hear you. I have looked into making a passive solar collector for heat. Mine is 8 feet by 12 feet. Doing the math, I could collect nearly 10,000 watts under best conditions. I have the parts, and have it on the list.
If I finish it, it will be used to heat extratopia over the winters. The real problem is that conditions are not perfect in the winter, so the output will not meet its full potential. Still, it will put out some very nice heat a lot of the time. I look at mine as a season extender in that pond.
Back in the early 80's, a good friend of mine, Jill, had an uncle with a solar heating rig on his house, and that would heat the house and keep the indoor pool nice and warm during the winter. Back then, indoor pools were big and a number of people just built swimming pool rooms in custom greenhouses attached to their house. This one was Solar tho.
Brian, after I posted that, later that night I remembered you had a solar collector on the side of your cabin and thought "he has probably already thought of that!"
Well at least I was not totally off in space with my suggestion! Only my memory.
The piglets are doing great. The water quality remains good. We are getting ready to setup the aquariums and see if we can get the spawn going.
I do know there has been some spawning in the big tanks as we now have about a dozen two to three inch fish in the tanks. That said, I am hoping we can do really well in the spawning tanks this spring.
Had to buzz away for 8 days to a place in KY, and the prevailing logic up here determined that the main compressor was making too much noise, so my brother pulled the plug.
Brian, thanks again for showing me your setup with the Tp. I hope to follow along your footsteps by next fall. And you have a really nice place there. I had plans on my forage pond (area has been cleared and is ready for the digging) but after seeing your 3 forage pond set up along with your expansion plans, I am thinking of changing my forage pond of 1/3rd acre to 2 or 3 smaller forage ponds. looks much easier to work with. Glad to hear you cleared your dam piping. And thanks again for showing me around, nice pier, nice camp house, nice lake.
Glad to have you out. You are welcome back anytime.
I think you will be happier with options, and thats what several forage/growout ponds do for you. Remember, if you get the big traps, use the setting tool.
You'll be amazed by the amount of fry that she spits out. I can never get over it, wondering how does she hold all of them! What amazes me even more is during the first day or two after their big release, is that she can go around and suck everyone of them back in. She can have hundreds in her mouth and still catch a single one that is swimming around loose.
Also along that note, I have seen the mother suck in a fry while she was taking in pellets. She spits the fry out and eats the pellets!!!!!!!!!
Well our aquariums did work, but it turned out to be a bit more work than my partner expected and we had limited recruitment. That said, we did learn a lot about breeding. Next time we are going to add a lot more area for the fry to "hide" in until we can collect them and transfer them to an IBC to grow them out.
I would guess we have seen around 20 Tilapia around one inch from the aquariums, and there are also around 20-30 more over three inches from the IBC's.
In reality, I think if we would have had more cover, we would have had better recruitment. I might also set up an aquarium and see how we can do at the house, and yes we will have more cover.
Is the mother alone, or is there other tilapia mixed in?
Sometimes a mother needs a few tries to learn the ropes. I now give them three tries, and then swap for another. There are some that never seem to get the hang of it. Just yesterday I had one spit out the fry. She hanged onto them for longer than usual, so long that I thought she was going to swallow them instead of letting go. Turned out there were about 200. Not bad for her first go.....
Ok guys, I captured 12 Tp last fall from the pond and going through a learning curve on how not to kill them, I wound up with 6 Tp. these were in the 3 to 5" size and they grew in the 3 aq's for 100 days with me doing water changes 1/3rd tank per week. One larger male would attack the others so I separated him, never had any recruitment even though there was a smaller male in the group of 6. Every time I added the larger male he would attack and bite the others. I finally returned the Tp back to the pond this spring. Now I need to do something different next fall, what or where would you suggest I start for reproduction.
We had one male and four females in each aquarium. We did not have enough area for the fry to escape into until we could retrieve them. Our water temps were 83. I think cover is going to be the key.
I know I've seen a few videos online where mouth brooding females were dip netted out and forced to open mouth in a small fry tank to release the fry. It was noted if not dipped/forced quickly female tilapia may tend to swallow some if not all fry.
I know I've seen a few videos online where mouth brooding females were dip netted out and forced to open mouth in a small fry tank to release the fry. It was noted if not dipped/forced quickly female tilapia may tend to swallow some if not all fry.
Yes, I found this works if you do it with eggs in the first few days (not the fry stage). Problem then is you need to make an incubator. I have found all ways are possible, but little differences in how each person does a task will eventually determine which way works best for them. Lots of trial and error.
I have found the least stressful(without loss) way to do it is pull out all other fish and leave the mom alone and go thru the natural process. Don't get as many cycles per year doing it this way, but I'm not doing it for mass production.
Others cap the tube she hides in and moves her to another tank. All depends on your setup and what you have available.
Ok guys, I captured 12 Tp last fall from the pond and going through a learning curve on how not to kill them, I wound up with 6 Tp. these were in the 3 to 5" size and they grew in the 3 aq's for 100 days with me doing water changes 1/3rd tank per week. One larger male would attack the others so I separated him, never had any recruitment even though there was a smaller male in the group of 6. Every time I added the larger male he would attack and bite the others. I finally returned the Tp back to the pond this spring. Now I need to do something different next fall, what or where would you suggest I start for reproduction.
Thanks
Tracy
Cut the lip off. Sounds drastic, but it works!!!!!! Had a male doing this, and was a real good producer. Over a period of time he killed a few females and I said enough. I had nothing to lose by doing it. Turns out he is my best one so far.
Doesn't do much for his looks but he don't seem to care. He's still happy
Tilapia males will mouth fight and rarely harm each other. Non-gravid females not near spawning, a male will hammer behind the gills, to cause clotting and suffocation. Doesn't sound very bright for survival of the species, but dominant males hate all other Tilapia that are not ready to drop eggs and are fiercely territorial. Btw, the larger the dominant male, the larger the area it will kill female Tilapia in.
Brian, I kept the water temp @ or around 83 F in the 3 tanks, two 10 gal tanks and one 29 gal tank. Watched and feed them daily, looking for babies but never happened, Maybe they just did not like me watching them having sex
Do u just force the mean male to stay with the female, even though she may be killed by him?
With the small tank setup, you always have to keep an eye out to what's going on. If the female is ready to drop the eggs, I would let the male harass her at least for a few days(sometimes it takes a week, as long as no damage is done). If you see scales being ripped off, etc, then I would pull him for a few days. If she isn't ready, well then you are just not going to see anything happen and he will keep beating on her. Make sure you have a place for her to go hide and escape him, plus I have found you need a place for him as well. Again, consider cutting his lip. It saves a lot of grief.
I suspect you didn't have mature enough females. Literature says they will be breeding at a small size(can't remember the exact length), but for me it seems the females have to be 9 or 10 months old and about 8".
@Brian- Have you thought about creating a tank divider with very fine screen. Once the female is holding eggs, slip it in to keep her separated and the fry safe. I have done this a few times and works good. I don't like the idea of the fry in with other big fish. I still think they will get picked off to much so.
I want one where they take the risk of cutting the hole! 
