What was the consensus on hybrid crappies? Do they grow faster? Are they less fecund? I seem to remember there was someone here that got some through Rex (Rainman) and there was a thread about it? Teejaeh or Shorty?

The reason I ask is I plan on catching some broodstock crappies in the spring from a local lake and planting them to spawn in one of my hatchery ponds. My hope is to feed train them, and when I can sex them plant one of the two sexes in my trophy production pond. Was going to use black crappie but I remembered the largest crappies I get in as a taxidermist are natural hybrids including this 21 inch fish from a few years ago.




I should be able t catch both whites and blacks for broodstock. I wonder which sex is preferred of each species, or does it matter?

Thoughts?

I think TJ has hyb crappies.

Hold on there...Cecil are you saying the largest crappies you see are naturally occurring hybrids? Is this consistent?

Yes at least 90 percent of the time and mostly from one lake chain. They look more like a black crappie but with less intense spotting (but not the bar pattern of a white crappie), and will only have 6 dorsal and anal spines like a white crappie. I've done a good number of 17 to 18 inch fish like that over the years.

Hybrid vigor?

That's what I'm pondering. Do you think the hybrids consistently achieve a larger size than the parents? That kind of runs against the grain, doesn't it?

Not if it's hybrid vigor.

Curious, is it the hybrid achieves a larger size more quickly but the parent actually ends up bigger at the end of the day, like HBG vs BG, or do the hybrid crappie actually reach a larger overall size than the parent at the end of the day?

Interesting read.

http://www.scout.com/outdoors/wired2fish/story/1495658-do-you-know-your-crappie

Apparently according to another link J.M. Malone and sons use a male black crappie and a female white crappie.

Cecil.

Help me out. If I saw that fish I would just call it a black from the coloring and move on. How can you tell it's a hybrid?

So the hybrids have the capability of out performing the parents, where ultimate size potential is concerned? I'm all about hybrid vigor, but was under the impression it did not allow for greater growth than could be achieved by the "pure" parental strain?

whoa...looks like Bill beat me to it...

That all sounds fact to me. Waiting for tj and Rex to comment. Tj's didn't seem to have a good start but has seen little to no recruitment if memory serves me. And Rainman can get his hands in them. Ciecil think you'll just call Rex if you can't get yours to horizontal mombmo?

Mainly it has only 6 dorsal and anal spines of a white but lacks the distinct vertical bar pattern of a white crappie. The markings are more of that of a black crappie (scattered) but not as numerous as that of a pure black crappie. Kind of in between the two.

Thanks man!

I thought hybrids could outgrow their parent species? I've never seen a 3 pound regular strain bluegill but took in 3 pound hybrid once.

Don't know for sure. Just know the largest crappies I take in are usually natural hybrids.

http://www.scout.com/outdoors/wired2fish/story/1495658-do-you-know-your-crappie

Link above says successful recruitment is low although they are not sterile.


Would prefer to produce my own.

Looks like the white crappie broodstock will have to come from a reservoir and the black from a local natural lake.

I've caught HBCP in my pond up to 16" - I'm sure there may be some larger - I don't fish my pond very often except through the ice - less than 20 times annually.

There is recruitment - I can't definitively state F2 grow slower or are more likely to be preyed upon which is what some literature states. To date, I do not have a population management issue. I wonder if they should truly be used like a triploid - put and take? They have only been present in the main pond fishery for 5 years, certainly not long enough for any solid science to be established. However, so far, they've been a successful addition to my fishery, and have provided several meals and good times on the ice.

Cecil, I have heard zilch on whether or not HBCP have hybrid vigor and out pace the parents. That makes me think that the F1 HBCP are similar in size and growth to that of the parents.

The only reason the sole producer of HBCP does it, is the inferior offspring that allows LMB and other apex predators to maintain population controls on offspring.

I am picking up HBCP Tomorrow, winding my way around Arkansas, Kansas, Iowa, Illinois, Indiana, Ohio, Tennessee then Finally to CMM before heading home. Walleye, HBCP, SMB, HSB and HBG are the current fish on the menu.

tj, Rainman, got a question for you and for anyone else that want to chime in. My son would like to have some crappie in our 3.5 acre pond but as you both know this is a no no. But here in your discussion, I understand that hybrid crappie might be a possibility?? Like many here, I am attempting to grow some large catchable CBLMB and I am thinking these HBCP might replace the TP that will die out in Nov if not before and will leave the pond with fewer forage to feed the CBLMB(provided by Overton's). Would these HBCP be useful to the CBLMB and give my son some Crappie? And plans are to restock the TP again this April.

Thanks

Tracy

Crappies eat fish for food, Tilapia eat algae (mostly). The crappie will be taking food away from the LMB (YOY that will grow to be larger food).

IF the goal is to grow large CBLMB, then I wouldn't stock another predator that competes with them.

Sent an email out to two great state biologists I know asking what lakes would be best to find white crappies to cross with the easier to find blacks. ( I have 100 lakes just in my county). Anyway turns out a lake just up the road has whites and blacks and it's no coincidence both he and I have seen large examples of the hybrids from that lake.

Thanks esshup for responding to my question, I did not think about th crappie eating the forage fish, I was thinking the CBLMB would eat the crappie, my bad

Tracy

Tracy - if you want crappies, I strongly advise going with the hybrids. So far they've been a good addition to my fishery...I recommend harvesting everything you catch and supplementally stocking like you would with CC or RBT.

TGW1, I agree with what was said about the HBCP being a competitor, but ONLY the F1 stocked. Almost all offspring will become snacks, but there may be a low number recruited. Rainbow trout in winter with Tilapia in the warmer months is proving to be an awesome combo in creating double digit bass, fast.

I think you could stock 300 HBCP without adversely affecting your CBLMB growth.

I'm sitting in SW Kansas with a few hundred HBCP right now,,,,

I have a question re Tilapia. Are they really much of a forage fish for bass?

I get where they eat unwanted vegetation and generally don't compete with LMB for forage. And maybe LMB will eat some smaller tilapia from time to time, and even some larger ones when temps cool. But is it really true that tilapia, where fairly common, constitute a major part of a LMB diet throughout the summer?

From my under standing in the fall all tilapia slow down and or die, before they die they are easy slow forage making predators lose less energy to consume them. Even if they are don't cost as much energy as a minnow of the same size.

For LMB, they not only expend less energy, but if the Tilapia are pure blues dying around 42-48*, the LMB metabolism has slowed and the LMB put on high energy lipids to avoid winter weight loss. Hybridized Tilapia or any other species that dies from 52-58* will help LMB gain weight, but not produce the same amount of lipids, because the LMB metabolism has not quite slowed enough at the higher water temps. Tilapia lethargy and immune system shutdown begin about 5-10 degrees warmer than the lethal temps.

anthropic, if your pond is in LA and you do not want the state sterilizing it for you, don't even think about stocking them in your state.

In monoculture settings of unfed, non-aerated test ponds, (without predators), 10 pounds of Tilapia have repeatedly produced over 1000 pounds of fish in a single growing season.

Tilapia produce a LOT of forage. Most fry/fingerlings get eaten by other YOY predators (like LMB and BG) before reaching 2". But, that means those YOY grow faster, along with Tilapia, adding lots of "extra" forage for larger fish due to the Tilapia consuming/converting algae and other non-utilized nutrients, like detritus. Further, consuming the detritus, and oxygenating normally anoxic water improves overall water quality too. Tilapia are NOT a magic bullet in water management strategies, but they are one of the BFH's in the tool box!

Thanks for the responses! Fortunately my pond is in Texas, so Tilapia are an option. I hope to put some in a 1/4 acre growout pond with no predators, along with prawns. Will also put some in main BOW.

I hadn't considered that baby tilapia would feed YOY LMB and large BG. I do know from personal experience that ponds with tilapia are far less prone to FA infestation, so they are worthwhile even just for that.

Interesting that pure blue tilapia putting more weight on LMB than Mozambique due to temp sensitivities. I believe Texas allows only Mozambique stocking without a special license for precisely that reason, as they cannot survive Texas winters anywhere except in the extreme southern part of the state.

Yo Anth - ship some of those prawns up North...it's tough to get fresh seafood up here. I won't tell anyone - secret is safe with me.

teejaeh,
come on down to visit, north east florida has some of the best shrimp in the world...right off the boat...

According to Malone & Sons the hybrid crappies shouldn't be an issue in a pond with bluegill and largemouth bass. In fact recruitment is so poor that they have to be restocked.

http://www.jmmaloneandson.com/hybridcrappie.html

Sad to say that I've heard these prawns, though they get large, are not nearly as tasty as saltwater shrimp. But they do well when raised together with tilapia, plus the bass are happy to chow down on them.

If you haven't done so, you should try some good Louisiana style boiled crawfish sometime. Out of season now, but it won't be long before the mudbugs make their return.

So if I have both black and white crappie in my pond will I get hybrids or are they more likely to reproduce separately?

Good question. I personally wouldn't count on it especially if you put both sexes of both species in. Better chance if only male of one species and females of the other. That said I think Malone and Sons probably mixed the gametes in a petri dish.

When IS crawfish season there?