FIRST THE GOOD: I live in the foothills of the Blue Ridge Mtns in South Carolina. A few years ago I bought close to 30 acres that is located a 45 minute drive from our house. On this 30 acres is a 7 acre pond that is 100% mine. No part of the pond is on any other persons property. There is also a 700 square foot cabin on the property that we completely renovated 2 years ago. 2 bedrooms, full bathroom, big kitchen, den/fireplace room and a wraparound porch. A huge plus is that the pond use to be 18 acres, but the family who owned it 30 years ago lowered the water level by choice. I have the green light to raise the water level back up if I want. Only a couple of issues to deal with to start the process of turning it back into a 15 to 18 acre lake. When we found this property, I thought my dream had come true of owning my own private pond to manage all myself.

NOW THE BAD: The pond sits in a valley surrounded by mountains. The properties connected to ours is not just vacant land, so we have neighbors that live on smaller lots and further up into the hills. A % of the people are not good. They have long track records of arrest and dealing drugs/meth, theft, etc. We even had all the wiring stolen out of our cabin before we had the chance of putting a security system on it. Then the rest of the people seem to be nice law abiding citizens.

My big problem is that both the good and the not so good people all feel as if my pond is theirs and they can do whatever they want on my property. The person I bought it from had put up a barbed wire fence around the pond part of our property with multiple nice gates and a shelter for his horses. Within a year of us buying it, we now have multiple areas where the fence has been torn down, all the big metal gates have been stolen, one guy put a horse on our property, tons of signs of 4 wheelers tearing up our land around the pond, a shed behind the cabin was broken into and anything of use was stolen and more. Every time I put up No Trespassing signs, within a couple of weeks they've all been torn down. 4 times I've gone out there and had guys in jon boats fishing in my pond. I've looked at people nicely and said they can't fish in the pond anymore or trespass. They look at me and say "my family has been living around here for generations and we've always used this pond and you can't stop us!"

So I am at a loss. My dream has become a nightmare, from these people that don't abide by the law and tell you that to your face. We've had cops come out multiple times, when we've had the cabin and shed broken into, but they have no answer. They can't be my pond security guard. I am so close to being able to own a 15 to 18 acre lake that would be 100% mine, but these people have ruined it. I would love to hear any and all feedback you might can share as to what you might think I can do. Maybe share your own similar experiences and how you've handled it. Am I fighting a losing battle and just need to look for another pond to buy?

We have just been contacted by a real estate agent that has a person from New York that wants to buy a pond property here. I know this agent, so they asked if we might be interested in selling. The NY guy saw pics of our pond/cabin and loves what he sees. What to do, what to do!?! Sorry to get so long in this messages. Thanks for any feedback you can share.

Below are a few photos of the pond and a photo of the fishing cabin.

So if you get pics of the tresspassers via security cameras how can the local law enforcement not help you? I'm pretty sure trespassing is a crime in all 50 states, not to mention vandalism, theft, etc.

Now with that said if you have the chance to sell this place at a profit and find something closer to home and/or not surrounded by malcontents I might lean that direction if it were me.

The saying 'good fences make good neighbors' only applies if you're there to monitor the fence and they don't just cut it down when you're not in residence.

I had the same problem when I bought my place. I took care of it with some personal risk. I am not suggesting that you take the same path, but I felt that I did not work for what I had to have it stolen. Be sure that you can back up whatever you do. I made it clear in person that I was the owner and they were not welcome to trespass. If you are not willing to take these personal risks, then you will likely deal with your present situation for a along time. I cannot emphasize enough that this is dangerous business and I am not recommending it to anyone else.

Contact your local game Warden.
Buy a Trail timer camera that texts you pictures.
I use this one but there are many to chose from
http://www.trailcampro.com/hcospartangocamnoglowverizonreview.aspx

When you get a picture of a tresspasser, call the game warden and have him ticket them.

It starts out as a small fine but grows to be very expensive if they get caught a second time and the losers know it.

All you have to do is catch a couple and press charges where they know you will do it.
They will find another place to fish

Drue, I'm sorry to hear about all the trouble. It's terrible when others impose their will upon you, with no regard for your thoughts on the matter whatsoever.

In my opinion, you need to decide how far you're willing to take this, factoring in the level of support you can reasonably expect from the local law. Absentee ownership can be a heartache, and dealing with those who've "always done it this way", and have lived there longer than you, can be tough. Without the help of law enforcement, and given your absentee status, I think your options are limited. Certainly don't want to see the situation escalate to violence, and if reasoning is out of the question, and it sounds like it may be, then you have some tough choices to make.

Here's a crazy outlandish thought.. you mention enlarging the lake? Forgive me for what I'm about to suggest, but what about draining the lake first, then doing the additional dirtwork needed to make the lake into what you want? Remove the temptation? Any chance you intend to move onto the property? Leaving the lake drained, and living there for a spell might discourage some folks?

Of course there's always the option of selling...you might come out smelling like a rose, with enough cash to buy a piece of property that makes you forget about this place altogether. Never hurts to put a high price on something....all they can say is no. Or maybe yes .

Either way I feel for you, and wish you luck!

Drue, I had similar bad things happen with the person we bought our dream property from....He sold us the land, yet felt it was still his to do with anytime he pleased, I approached him about his son shooting up some things while squirrel hunting....his reply was Boys will be boys and then later, blocked our access...that became a long, expensive legal battle we eventually lost.

My wife and I a couple years ago discussed how we would view our dream land IF we gained legal access to it again. We both decided, no matter what happened, we would never feel safe at home or that our dream was ours and never in danger....we sold, at a huge financial loss!

Our only gain is that now, when we drive near the property that was 2 hours from our home, we don't get physically ill at all the pain we endured.

If you are an absentee land owner, you can only spend a small amount of time there....do you want to spend it patrolling your property knowing those that live there can and do disrespect your rights? Even if you gain a conviction on one or two, they will just be on notice you have cameras up and be more careful...possibly vindictive.

Dru4, you've been around on the forum for a real long time, so I'm sure you've seen some of the lengthy discussions on the topic.

You should try and do a good estimation of how many loser individuals are trespassing on your land.

I'm an absentee owner, and I have a guy I pay $10/hour to watch over the place a bit. It's usually about $300 or so a month. He does run off people.

Last week I got a letter from him, and it seems a local church group has found my property to be an enjoyable place, even with the no trespass signs!!! So my caretaker went up there and let them know to not come on my property anymore.

At this point, I believe you can only reduce it, but never really eliminate it when you are absentee.

I have had a life long experience with trespassers, grew up here and still here. Saw my Dad fight it the whole time he was in charge. We put up signs, they tear 'em down. My Dad would call the police in to take them away... But, no signs up, they said they had no idea. Dad wouldn't prosecute, he was to nice. There are some real good stories to tell on this history. Don't hurt to have a reputation that your a bit off kilter It was fun listening to stories being told by kids in school, not knowing who I was.

My turn to deal with it now. Put up signs, down they come. I called the cops every time they came down. Make a report. They said this needed to go on for a while to have a "track record". Keep receipts to prove its being done. Finally the sheriff said enough, we believe you. Up went a few fences, they cut 'em down. More reports every time. Then I finally caught one, and yes I prosecuted. By this time, I had developed a pretty good relationship with the sheriff, not the patrols. He said I needed to prosecute, (the patrol felt sorry for the trespasser , afterall he didn't fully grasp how long and how bad the problem was). If I didn't, the dept would start to get tired of doing their job and yet I wouldn't come thru for them to see it to the end. I prosecuted. The word must have spread like wildfire that I was serious, hardly any troubles. Now I make it a point to go around and recheck the signs, and yes they stay up. But if something happens, I know the signs are there to back me up.

My point is to be diligent. Definitely be afraid of retaliation. I would be more so in your case because of absentee owner. We have to decide all that stuff individually. You need to decide whether or not you want to be liked by the area residents. I want to be liked by those who believe in doing the right thing. I'm also proud that I carry on the tradition of being a bit "off", or so it appears,...or am I.

Good post FnC. I hope you continue to have your property stay private. You earned it.

You might consider renting out the cabin, or better yet, set up a mobile home to rent out. Or maybe, set up an RV or mobile home lot and rent that out.... Surely, an onsite resident would deter trespassers.


Nice looking place, it'd be a shame to have to sell it.

We had to resort to this as well. it got nasty and i wouldnt do it again because it put my wife and lil girl in harms way ,, but have to admit it worked and i got a few cuts and bruises to show for it but never had a problem again .

with that said either get a neighbor who can and will handle things while your away or just start over else where .

As usual, this will be one of my long posts.

I feel for you. We experienced a somewhat similar situation when drug dealers, and all that goes with them, took over the area where we had more than just a weekend place. It was close enough to where we worked, that we would frequently go there to spend the evenings and nights. We spent most weekends and holidays there. Our plan was to retire there. We became a part of the community through volunteer/civic organizations and through a local church.

The neighborhood started out very nice. We had 12 acres that was divided by a dirt road. We had a pond, with plans for more.

The elderly lady who owned the property adjacent to, and across the road from our property, invited her granddaughter and five kids to move in with her after her husband passed away. The granddaughter's husband was in prison on a variety of charges.

There was never any proof that the granddaughter and her new boyfriend killed the grandmother, but it was a suspicious drowning of an 83 year-old wheelchair-bound lady. Her body was cremated a few hours after finding her face down in shallow water, with her wheel chair on shore.

The granddaughter inherited the property after the death. Just down the road were two similar situations where elderly relatives let younger relatives (late teens into early 20s) live in farm houses the owners were not using.

It became an absolute nightmare. Near the end of our dead-end road, a powerline right-of-way was turned into a road used by the drug dealers, into a very nasty subdivision. We witnessed beatings in our front yard. We were worried that a murdered girlfriend of one from this group was sunk in the pond behind our property. It turned out that she wouldn't sink with four concrete blocks tied to her body, so they took her body to the property of one of our friends, where her body was discovered 3-4 years later in a clogged culvert he was cleaning out. He had seen it there over the 3rd or 4th winter after the murder, suspecting it was a deer carcass.

I spent many overnights with the sheriff, deputies, and state police officers when they would setup road check points with their cars on both sides of the road on my property. My background role was to identify vehicles moving in and out of what should have been a dead-end road.

I was threatened. I was subjected to a lot of negative activities on my property. I cannot even begin to list the terror we went through. I put in a pretty expensive security system that could be monitored by the sheriff's department.

The sheriff told me I could defend myself. I was never outside without either my 12-gauge shotgun or a big softball bat, unless law enforcement was in our immediate area. The law enforcement individuals would ask me to place my weapons in their cars whenever they were present. They also would secure my gun locker inside our house -- with our permission.

My wife and I decided to buy another place. There was a major sting operation about the same time. Many of the druggies, murderers, and thugs were arrested, or they fled the area. A number of properties were confiscated and auctioned. My property was purchased by one of the new owners. We were out of there.

We basically broke even in the sale. We found a property that is about 4 miles away (as the crow flies) and about 8 miles by road. The property is about 25 acres, and had one pond. I've added a few more ponds.

But, the big thing is the peace-of-mind we now have. There is really only one way in to our present property, and one way out. I quickly pissed off all the neighbors who fished and bucket-stocked the pond, and used the property for 4-wheeling and horseback riding. I called in favors from my law enforcement contacts from our previous place. To this day, I do a lot of volunteering that works closely our Dept. of Natural Resources (DNR) biologists, which introduced me to many in the law enforcement group ("game wardens").

It probably took about three years to mostly clear our present property of trespassers. It helped us make many new friends who were also fighting these issues.

Yes, I'm known as that old grumpy bast**d who won't let anyone fish or hunt on his property -- which isn't quite accurate.

I'm also known as the guy who hosts fishing parties for kids and the elderly, and who works with local hunters to provide a lot of high quality venison each year to the elderly and poor. We make pastrami, the equivalent of corned beef (venison style), sausage, ground venison, and many good cuts. I've prepared as many as 14 deer in one season.

My fight has all been worth it. It is very difficult to even begin to estimate how much has been returned to us by the community. It is far in excess of what we've given. My wife and I have to be very careful about saying anything about any project we might be planning. Before we know it, we'll have people here, with whatever equipment, tools, and supplies are needed, and who are ready to start the project.

Good luck in your quest. Some days it might seem impossible. But, people are very big-hearted everywhere in America. Staying and fighting can work. Moving can work.

Ken

If you have a buyer and can break even SELL IT. Walk away and find something else. Seriously not worth that type of headache and it could easily get much worse if you start "going after" these people.

I don't like the idea of "quitting" and letting them "win" but you can't change losers/druggies/criminals.

Good luck and I hope whatever path you choose goes well.

Sunil -- Lynda and I have a lot going on this summer. But, maybe come fall, my younger son and/or my 20 year old grandson could start going up there on a semi-regular basis. I know my son and grandson would really enjoy it, and none of us would be intimidated by trespassers or those who live on the public road leading to your property. We may just have to check with our friendly local Pond Boss legal beagle friend to see what we can legally do.

Lynda and I were in the close-by area near your place for two separate funerals in the last two years for relatives of friends who you have met. I didn't realize how many people we know whose families have lived within about a 10 mile radius of your pond going back to the late 1700s and early 1800s.

Ken

Adding some insight to living with, and experiencing the fears your property is being violated......

I'm a fairly little guy, but not typically the type of person that backs down when pushed (a surprise to some, I know ), but a comment my wife made one day was the deciding factor for me that we needed to sell our land. My wife is a very caring, gentle woman, but one day after she was looking at pictures of our kids enjoying fishing and playing on our land, she said ..."If we ever get access again, the first thing I want you to do is teach me how to shoot every gun we own, because if I ever see that SOB on our land, I want to be able to shoot the SOB!" What shocked me most is she knows how to shoot, but hates it. Another persons calloused ways had made my wife angry enough that she was not only willing to go after him, she wanted to.

I agree with getting a caretaker that you trust, and check with Fish and Game and the Sheriff and see if he can also be your "agent" which means the caretaker is calling them if there are trespassers and prosecuting. Without teeth, the authorities won't do a thing.

As others have pointed out, it helps to be known as someone that is a bit off, and target practicing on the property will only help your side of things.

But, the flip side of the coin is that if the offer for the property is good, maybe another, better property can be found.

or.....get some ...Danger!!! No Fishing or Swimming! Water is Contaminated!!! Seek Immediate Medical Attention if Exposed!!!... signs and post them. Make sure you alert local law enforcement and health department of your plan.

And then add a weird colored pond dye to the pond

Another vote for selling it, hopefully for a small profit, and moving on. You'll never be able to fully enjoy your property always wondering what will be stolen, broken, burned, etc. when you return. I'm certain there are other places you can be just as happy without all the headache. A lot of good suggestions have been presented here, if you had no choice, but you do. Best of luck in whatever you decide.
Fellow absentee land owner.

I have often thought about a non leathal trap like setting a lazy boy up with soft full body grips and sends an alarm to you or local authorities ?? just a thought and I dont have a proto-tyoe yet. Buy some plastic skelletons and hang them with clothes on or barley bury them ?? guard geese? or Guard Llamas ?

Another vote for sell the property.

There is electric on the property right?? is there cable and Phone, If so setting up security might not be that bad.

Two ways to go about this, broken window theory or make some friends.

I think we all know what the broken window theory is, don't allow even the slightest infringement, report all, prosecute all, don't allow anything to slide. Doesn't sound like many have had results with this without going through emotional drama that drains ones enjoyment of what they love.

You could make a friend of a couple of these people. I have chosen to do this on my place. I do not kick of trespassers. Found a guy illegally hunting turkeys and told him it was my place but I wouldn't be hunting turkey that year, could I hunt deer on his land? He was cordial and said his land was only big enough for him to hunt so he couldn't make the trade, never saw him again.

Find a couple of them and tell them they seem to be enjoying he place nicely and you can't be there all the time. If they help to keep people out, don't make any messes, assure the signs stay up, you'll let them do specified activities on the place. All you ask in return is the help monitoring it and perhaps some help with trail maintenance and some other small tasks. I have made many friends with this tact. This is more the Dale Carnegie method.

Broken window or Dale Carnegie, both different approaches but a similar ending if done right.

When an absentee landowner near me had multiple complaints about all the shooting in his woods during deer season (not from me), he kicked everybody out and came and asked me what to do. I told him to find one hunter and trade hunting rights for his patrolling of the land. He tried it his way first but it did not work. He then tried getting a single hunter on the land. The guy that he chose made some enemies, but he made some friends too, like me. If he needs to track a deer into my land, he calls me and we help him not only track it, but drag it out. That land has been trouble free for over a decade. I also bought some land adjacent to my place a couple years back and made it clear that I now owned it. Folks know who I am, and the trespassing stopped when I signed the papers to purchase it. I take my ownership seriously, but I may turn up dead some day as well. That is the price of freedom. I like timshuffin's idea of finding someone local to look after trespassers in exchange for exclusive access.

Drue, being an absentee landowner can be tough for the very reasons that you have listed. You have choices to make. Either sell the place which isn't a bad option or try to control access. Controlling access can be a never ending battle. My problems were like yours with the same predator/prey relationship but mostly ended when a lot of people agreed that I was a complete azzhole. I know that it shouldn't be that way but it is and, in some cases, what we consider civilization can have a thin veneer. I've outlasted and/or outlived some of them. Some have changed their opinion of me and others haven't.

If you decide to keep it:

I would PERSONALLY install the game cams that send a pic to your PC. I would have several of them strategically placed and move them frequently. Talk to both the GW and the Sheriff and forward the pics to him/her. Stay in touch and don't forget that the sheriff always needs financial help at election time. Some of the cams will be stolen and/or damaged. That's part of the price. If the Law seems or is reluctant, sell it and move on.

I haven't seen this mentioned, but I'm sure you all know about it, but purple paint is the same as a no trespassing sign. It can't be taken down, and it's just as illegal to cross beyond the purple paint as it is to go past a no trespassing sign. We are lucky where our place is. We are absentee owners, but have become part of the community. Lots of good neighbors that are all full timers. They watch our place when we aren't around. I haven't put up a sign, paint, fence, or gate. So far, but I'm always looking for signs that someone has been around.

If you have trees, put the signs up high using a ladder. Trespassers tend to be lazy, that is one possible reason that they did not work and buy their own land. I never heard on the purple thing?

Update: Purple paint is only used in 4 states.

http://www.signs.com/blog/state-by-state-guide-to-no-trespassing-laws-signage/

I worked hard all my life to get what I have or wanted. And I would not walk away from it just because of some outlaws. First thing I would do is have a meeting with the local law and the local game warden. Buy their lunch if you can get that type of meeting. let them know your problem and ask them for help. Most likely the outlaws are well known. Set up the texting game cameras and follow up every time u get a text of trespassers. Take vacations there and weekends and prosecute every trespasser. If it continues after that then I would set traps for bear or lion in the area where they cross through or over. I might post a sign telling of traps set but I might not. Life is not easy and one must pick and choose your battles but I would choose to fight this one. I would not walk away.

Tracy

One more comment about the police....

When I had stuff stolen from my land, the police were helpful, but they also said they needed me to do my part which was to actually show up in court.

In other words, they need the citizens support to fully culminate their policing activities.

There are usually always some 'good' neighbors around with similar values and respect of private property.

Never heard of the purple paint either. That may not hold up in court, or at least in all states.

We did put up signs high with ladders. They still got tore down. If you are hanging them on trees, it usually means fallen braches are lying around. Easy to reach up and smack them down. If that didn't work for them, they just shot the h-## out them!!!! Just be persistent....

If you get someone to watch over the place, I'd bring in an outside friend and give them privileges. I sure wouldn't approach someone you caught trespassing to help. They are unscrupulous already, do you think they can really be trusted when not watched carefully.

Having been thru multiple avenues in dealing with ridding trespassers and the grief and fear this gives, I now think that is better to stay firm/hardline and it ends quicker, in my experience. When we did the softer approach, it lasted 60+ years and never worked.

Sorry about the confusion. I must have visited one or two of the other states, besides Missouri.
Other states should adopt it. It's really taken off in here in Missouri. There's no question about where the property line is located, and the owners intent. I've heard it's enforced very well.

What did repo lots and impound lots used to use, guard dogs? Any way to use wild animals or dogs effectively?

I have a little problem in the back woods behind our property that people joy ride, walk their dogs, snowski, use ATVs, etc on the 2 track back there because it was 'free reign' for years before we moved in and built. Signs don't help. I'm considering posting a sign on the most commonly traveled paths in and out stating 'tire hazard, sharp objects ahead' or 'enter at your own risk, spike strips in use' Then at least if they come in on anything motorized they will have tire damage and an expensive tow truck bill.

Probably any warning sign will be ignored. Booby traps, hidden banks of poison tipped arrow launchers will just produce retailiation.

Probably cameras and frequent patrols by law enforcement is about all you can do.

Here in Ontario if you notify the provincial police they will periodically drop by when things are slow. If there is any trespassers they will fine them. They will keep fining them until the word gets out and people stop dropping by.

The fine gos against your drivers license and if you do not pay you loose your driving license.

Maybe fish and game will do this for you down there.

Cheers Don.

Here in Arkansas the purple paint on the trees means one thing. NOOOOO Trespassing it is enforced by law and is the same as having signs up. Cause with signs they could fall down or tear on their own by wind or rain or branches hitting them. Not a bad idea to have a both but anyone down here knows. Purple paint means keep off!!! Private Property!

RC

Looks like my link is incomplete. Maybe more states allow the use of purple paint for marking no trespassing?

Oh yeah here we not only have it on our private property but if you lease any land for hunting you can put it up all around your borders on your lease and it is backed by law!

RC

Check your local laws or store for Purple Posting Paint. I'd venture to guess most states have adopted the purple paint as a "No Trespassing" warning. The purple paint has some fairly specific requirements, like painting trees or fence posts every 100' and certain distances off the ground...

I would also not allow some game warden or deputy try claiming a sign is needed at all. A person knows if they are not on their own property, and don't have permission, they are trespassing....no signage needed!

Canyon, I hear you on the spike strips, but that will land you in prison pretty quickly! Reminds me of a guy in High School that had hands and wrists flexible enough to reach inside a soda machine to steal cans....we decided to cure him by running an extension cord inside the chute. When he grabbed the 110V, he looked like a cartoon character with his feet flipping in the air and all the jumping and flopping around he did...illegal as could be, but highly effective!

what is illegal about creating a barrier to entry to your own private property? If that barrier is perceived (like a sign that warns of toxic waters or rabid animals that keeps people out) or physical (like a simple gate or tall fence), or seen but potentially dangerous (like barbed wire on top of a fence or spike strips?)

Isn't the beware of dog sign (which works by nature of the fact that they can't see the dog but likely he is there) similar to a beware of spike strips (also unseen but probably lurking under the dirt where they would have to choose to drive over them or not)?

I don't think anyone would get injured, although possibly if they were going very fast on their dirt bike and had a flat tire something could happen, where is the legality when damage occurs to their vehicle while they were trespassing?

If you own any guns I would suggest doing some plinking every single time you come to the farm. And not just a .22, fire off a 30 round mag or 3 pretty rapidly once or twice a day. If you do that every time you go to the place some people will stop messing around, especially if there are new "No Trespassing" signs up every week. It won't be 100% effective but shooting is fun and it will deter some.

There are specifics to how signs are to be placed too.

Yes, a person knows that they are not on their own property. But many times, a trespasser will say that they have permission to be on the neighbors property, and there was no way to tell where the line was. I say fuey, they should have been clearly informed/asked as to the property line before trudging around. However, to be fair signs are good ( and I think needed here, for court cases). Then I don't feel bad in any way about going to the full extent of the law.

"Good fences make good neighbors." I always find it curious that those with the smallest properties are the least likely to know where their property boundaries are.

I do want to amplify the positive effects of target practice on your land.

It helps to leave targets where you've seen trespassers, too.

Indiana has a regulation that if a trespasser is injured on your property you are not responsible BUT if there is a hazard on your property (like a bridge over a creek is in disrepair and they drive over it, injuring themselves) and you know about it, but don't do anything about it, then you ARE liable.

Stupid, stupid, stupid.

Sunil...this is what we have on our front gate...subtle message.

Hmmm. Might that not require intuitive reasoning on the part of the trespasser/ game warden? It wasn't spelled out in black and white, like a sound law should be.

Scattering fresh bones about seems to work as a deterrent and works in most languages too.

Ya'll got me so stirred up about these scumbag trespassers and other meth lab losers...

I'm browsing the internet looking at these prefab units.

Maybe find an old retired guy to live on our place
for free and sit on the porch with a shotgun.

Wouldn't be a bad gig for the right person.

Its more fun to do yourself...

I'm with you, stories like this get my blood boiling. I am not a reasonable man when I'm pissed off. I had a nice little cabin in the woods that my wife and I had built by ourselves. We ended up selling it to a friend when we needed some money and not long after that some local scumbags burnt it down just for the kicks when it had sat unoccupied for a time. They should be shot.

Why go through all this hassle when you can get out of it easily? If it was maybe family land and there was some sentimental value I can see fighting. There's no way in hell I'd want to hire someone or have someone stay out on my property just to watch it. This is most likely your DREAM land, that's no dream.

Also, I'm all for guns, I have several and a permit to carry but I can damn near guarantee these thugs have guns as well. You really want to get into it with a bunch of meth head drug dealers that are mostly armed? You or a family member could seriously get killed. They could burn your cabin down. A lot of stuff could happen. I know those examples are extreme but it does happen. You want to take the chance?

Not worth it. Sell it and buy something else. Before you buy something new I'd ask around about the neighbors. Can you move a little closer to a property?

Ironic, I mention having your cabin burnt down and FishyFishy saw it firsthand.

Caretakers beware of Grundy Center Hawkeye!

so if I put fence up with barbed wire on top with no trespassing sign and they get injured going over the fence then I'm liable? (i wouldn't take it that far but I'm wondering how the liability part works for those who trespass and how far we are allowed to go to keep them out)

Maybe along the lines of the other poster above we can lay some 'live' trip wires with current and put a sign out that says warning entering high voltage area?

The lines could be electric fence to keep in domesticated animals or to protect a 'garden' I know at farms around here single strand electric fence is effective at keeping out unwanted folk and is legal as it is required to keep pasturing animals on their own property.

Hmm...

Yeah here too if you say you have permission to be here. You must have a written consent form with the owners signature on it in your pocket or all bets are off!! If you don't have it your there illegally period.

RC

That is why I put 2 wires on my fence rather than just one, and why I used posts with reasonably high visibility. It is illegal to lay out booby traps to harm trespassers. Now if you are reasonably fearful for your safety, all bets are off as far as protecting yourself or others in person.

Is it just me or is that F'ed up!! It's illegal to put out traps on my own fricken land in case a trespasser gets caught in one.... What..... Wow what stupid rules...


That's like my neighbor has called the cops on me 3 times for shooting at my place. Shotgun / .22 cal/ 20 gauge and the cops have to come out. And each time they come out they sit down with me and shoot the bull for a while and then leave. Cause it's not illegal what I am doing.... but my idiot neighbor gets mad about it. I have stopped shooting as much these days only because I do not live there full time and like you all said I don't want something all of a sudden happening to my cabin or my pond somehow... so I'm playing nice for now but as soon as I live there 24/7 I don't care what he doesn't like. The cops said I have the right to shoot from 6AM to 10PM. I thought to myself why would you be shooting at 10PM?? I mean I always shoot at decent hours between 10 and 8 never to early never to late.

I told the wife wow I've lived in town my whole life with neighbors right next to me and never had any issues. I buy 12 acres with a pond out in BFE and now I have neighbors pissed at me... Ughhh

RC

It would have been nice (and smarter) if your neighbor negotiated with you to voluntarily shoot when its less bothersome to him or her, especially since you are engaging in a legal hobby. Folks often try to live where they are comfortable with the rules. In rural areas, folks shoot guns. In the suburbs, there are community rules. Unfortunately city folks often learn about the country from magazines and then move to the country and try to change the rules to match the magazine image. The result is a lot of stress for everyone.

yes RC51...it is a wacked world we live in

get drunk...have a wreck...sue the bar

smoke for 30 years..get cancer...every pack said warning...sue the tobacco company

In 1997, Larry Harris of Illinois broke into a bar owned by Jessie Ingram. Ingram, the victim of several break-ins, had recently set a trap around his windows to deter potential burglars. Harris, 37, who was under the influence of both alcohol and drugs, must have missed the warning sign prominently displayed in the window. He set off the trap as he entered the window, electrocuting himself. The police refused to file murder charges. Harris's family saw it differently, however, and filed a civil suit against Ingram. A jury originally awarded the Harris family $150,000. Later, the award was reduced to $75,000 when it was decided Harris should share at least half of the blame.

Seriously fellas'? Booby traps? What happens when the 9 year old wanders away from home, gets lost, and ends up on your place? Maybe you have legal recourse and escape unscathed, but geez, I would hate to try and sleep at night.

the poison arrows were just a hypothetical in my last post ... I agree, anyone can get lost or be on private property innocently and that is why I could not use the spike strips. It might be my own boy hotrodding on the garden tractor and I may end up spiking my own tractor tires and spilling all the beet juice out of the tires

It is strange though how there seems so much legal precedence to protect the wellbeing of those who are in the act of doing something illegal.

I often wonder if my dog was the aggressive type and bit the guy who was sheepishly sneaking in and bucket stocking my pond, would I have been in a lot of trouble?

Spike strips are also considered booby traps....not to mention how many wild critters might step on them.

I agree with you on how well protected otherwise criminal activity can be, not to mention how limited we can be in defending our property.

Satire, sparky, satire! Calm down or I'll come over and put otter tracks all over your pond banks!

Property owners need to get their legislators involved to pass a criminal trespass law like Louisiana's. Essentially, with few exceptions, the law is 'if you don't own the property, stay off it' unless you have the landowner's permission to be there. There is no fencing requirement and no need for signage. The law has provided much needed and many faceted relief for property owners.

CC, this ties in sweetly with the other thread. If the law is truly black and white, then everyone your dog bites, on your property, has equal recourse to claim damages against you. From a legal standpoint. But now we're thinking that the thief who was bitten, deserves less protection and sympathy than the 80 year old Sunday School teacher who was there innocently to invite your family to church?

And I agree! That's why the need to read between the lines, and study the intent of the law rather than it's physical structure, is so important in my eyes. Everybody wants to talk about the good ole days... fine, but remember how sheriff Taylor administered justice in Mayberry, back in those fictional good ole days? Did he discharge his duties by the letter of the law, or did he choose to look at intent more often than not?

Yeah I know, Television. But I'm willing to bet there existed that same mindset in real life, everyday America, back in the day.

Was it satire before my post, or after?

Even somewhat innocent booby traps might get you in trouble.

http://www.wideopenspaces.com/trespassing-hunter-gets-blasted-paint-video/

Actually, a "Beware Of Dog" sign, INCREASES your liability....it could imply you know your dog is vicious and if it bites someone, you failed to restrain it. You might lose your one shot at not knowing your dog would bite defense.

Electric fences are awesome....even electrified barbed wire, but they need to be prominently flagged every few feet, and can't be lethal voltage. Spike strips and other assorted booby traps would be pre-meditated assault and with wanton disregard...but sure fun to think about when people ignore your land!...lol

i loved Otis!

Rex, you're welcome to bring that paw-on-a-stick over here and wreak havoc. Still willing to bet I wouldn't throw down on my defenseless PVC drainpipe, thinking it was an otter however


(yep, one time....do it one time, and it haunts you forever! )

Everybody loved Otis!

That was below the belt Tony, and seriously endangers your PVC from retaliation, (or blindness)!

True...except Barney sometimes...lol

I had a great aunt who was really old when I was a boy, so this probably happened in the early 1900's. Her husband was fed up with people (presumably) stealing his chickens. He rigged up a 12 gauge shotgun to the door and either didn't tell his wife or she forgot. She went out to gather the eggs one morning and walked the rest of her life with a wooden leg. Only Rambo gets away with booby traps.

I'm curious how the state of TX handles trespassing.

My dad has about 80 acres of timber and he gets trespassers all the time. He even found a local Cub Scout group camping there. What kind of a Cub Scout leader would camp out in private property? My dad didn't even really care.

Him and I have completely opposite views on the subject. Maybe I was born in the wrong century as I think you should be able to protect your property with a gun. If my property is clearly marked and you step in it I have the right to put you down.

For some reason I can't stop laughing at this. Does this make me a bad human????

You feel you have the right to kill someone for walking onto your property? Do lost nine year olds count?

Only if they have a gun and point it at me....but seriously, the "save the children" argument has been so over used and misused, it is becoming meaningless.

I'll bet the meaning takes on a whole new level of freshness when it's a child you helped raise.

My Aunt never found the humor in it. Maybe you were a bad human before you heard that story!

Spark I love you man but you can come up with some extreme examples sometimes man. What does that even mean does a lost 9 year old count?? Come on man to any normal person protecting their property there not gonna pull a gun out on a 9 year old I'm sure... That's NOT what Hawk is talking about dude. And if for some reason (I wouldn't have any idea why) but if said property owner was dumb enough and did pull a gun on a 9 year old then that owner needs to be carted off to jail.

RC

It's about perception, RC. Sure, the nine year old example is extreme. But to me, the idea of using violence against another person simply for stepping foot onto my property is every bit as extreme. Nine year old, twenty nine year old, seventy nine year old....doesn't matter in my eyes, TONY will not pull a gun on any of the above, simply for walking onto my place.

This has been a great thread, relevant to our ponds, with a lot of viewpoints presented and discussed. I am so encouraged to think that we may be able to discuss the hard stuff, not just answer "Filamentous Algae" and "Green Sunfish" all the time. In my opinion we need to discuss the difficult issues, calmly and coolly, without resorting to name calling and insults, and/or moderator intervention. And we did it with this thread.

But, when the notion of violence against another enters the picture, then I think a line has been crossed. I respect all opinions, but find it difficult to sit by and let talk of violence lie unquestioned.

I agree my first step would not to be pull a gun on an adult either just because they were at my place? Heck they may be there to just say hey and welcome to the neighborhood or hey I saw someone over here the other day and just wanted you to know. 100 percent agree the barrel should not be the first option!!

RC

I certainly agree with Sparkie about the quality of the thread. We can disagree without being civil. Let's just make sure nobody suggests feeding the nine year old during the winter.


I wouldn't pull or even show a firearm unless I was in fear for my life and prepared to use it at that moment. At least in TN, just showing a firearm during a confrontation is enough to get charged with aggravated assault. You might beat the charge, depending on the circumstances, but do you really want to spend some time in jail and pay tens of thousands of dollars just for that? Friend of mine got into some road rage shenanigans a couple of years ago, pulled off the road into a KFC, two guys got out of the other car without any weapons, started walking toward him, he has a CC and pulled, did not point it at anyone....guess who got arrested? He beat it before it went to court, but jeez, life is too damn short to waste time and money on that kind of crap.

I realize that having people come onto our own property is a different situation....but not that much so when it comes to how the law regards firearms and confrontations, for all that the press castigages "stand your ground" legislation.

After dealing with trespassers over and over and over again that disregard proper private property/no trespass signage and after contacting the property authorities without much resolution, I would certainly fire warning shots before I would allow trespassers to force me to sell my property that I have spent years planning and building.

Ok..... I have to throw this in.

Are you sure that the 9 year old isn't packing some heat?

Kids aren't as innocent as they used to be!!!! Everyone needs to be careful in EVERY scenario they step into! Like has been said many times already, its tricky business protecting your property and isn't for everyone.


ooooops --- I see Rainman covered that

Absolutely not sure, but still not ready to shoot first and find out later he didn't.

I believe the statement was: "If my property is clearly marked and you step in it I have the right to put you down."

No, In my opinion I don't.

Ya an some of those exploding targets. Wow are they cool and report a he!! of a boom.

I have the tee-shirt:

http://www.amazon.com/Warning-Price-Increase-Expect-DESIGN/dp/B008V0FOB6

My buddy has this sign in the middle of his lane.

Here's a good one which I assume applies to MANY on this board.

Well here is one thought. If I drove up there and saw folks fishing in the pond I would back out as quietly as I could and call the cops. Tell them I am here on the road and need your help. There are people on my property trespassing right now and it has to be stopped. I tried to confront them once and they got real ugly with me that's why I am calling you!

Then after all of that is done and the cops have them gone then I would pretend to leave for a while come back at dark 30 and sit on my porch (no lights on) sit with one of those million candle watt spot lights for when you need it and wait for them. Phone in one hand and gun if you need it! Cause you know there gonna come back and try something! As soon as you here them or know for sure it's a person trespassing call the cops again hopefully they will arrive while they are still there and bust them again! Course you know as well as I do sooner or later they are gonna catch you while your not there! But if you have on record they been busted twice on your property they will be prime suspects then the cops can go knocking on their door!!

Yes you may lose some stuff in the process or have some stuff damaged that's where you have to decide what its worth.

Or you could just sell the place and give in and let the dick heads win!! Sorry people like that just piss me off! I would randomly take time off and show up at night and all kinds of stuff if my property were only 45 minutes away that's nothing for me at 75 miles an hour. Heck I do that now and my land is 94 miles away! Get something real good on gas and start making some trips and fight for what is yours!!

Sorry that's just me talking!

RC

Well said!

From other people's experiences along with my own, the trespassers in my neck of the woods have usually been teenagers or young adults. Often, it's a temporary thing, for they usually grow up and move on to bigger and better things in life.

If an older, serial trespasser IS encountered, that too is likely a temporary thing, because such a person is likely mentally inept, or too stupid to remain a free member of society.

I would also hazard a guess that the vast majority of vandalism perpetrated on vacant property is done so by teenagers .............. Especially drunken teenagers.

With 30 acres, once a full time resident along with a couple of good dogs is known to be onsite no one in their right mind is likely to trespass over a fence. There is no perfect solution for securing a vacant property, but getting to know some of the neighbors is a good start. Most landowners share the common interest of having their private property respected. If it appears that you're surrounded by idiots, sell immediately.

Agree with this. Nice.

From the looks of dem' digs, sign me up!............ Uh, do you mind if I occasionally invite my biker buddies from Waco, to come over for long weekend parties?

I have to get some of these, best trespassing sign I have ever seen.

Tracy

In Virginia its a posted sign or a vertical stripe of Aluminum/silver paint at
least 2" wide x 8" long - at a height of between 3 to 6'

I put signs with fence up when I first bought the place and we had the usual " been hunting/walking here for 30 years / since I was a kid with no problems"
A local farmer hays the place and he spread the word some and the local hunt club president was also a farmer and I told him I hunted with a dog hunt club for 35 years and I know all the tricks. I will call you if I find a dog on the property and you can come pick it up . But if any body comes on the property you better be walking and not have a gun or I will prosecute. In VA there is a law you can trespass to retrieve your dog. It stops the illegal" just picking up my dog while hunting"excuse .
It also helps when you wife don't take no crap either.
She has run em out holding her 357 at her side .
All that seems to have cured the problem except about once a year they get a wild hair and back the dog truck up to our back fence , drop the tail gate and let the pack loose.
I'm here I just get in the middle of the hunt and it breaks it up.

Sparkie, I've been thinking about the fishing outfit u posted while back and now I see why trespassers might pass u by. They are thinking that guy is a Nut, better stay away from him

Tracy

See, having a mindset vastly different than the majority has advantages!

Expecting esshup and Matt Rayl here tonight, I'll try not to shoot first and ask questions later.

Put up a few of the attached signs. Make a few stuffed dummies and place around the property with bayonet wounds inflicted. Make arrangements with the local Sherriff to come to the property and pick you up and release you. Make sure when you do this that you be in green underwear with camo body paint all over with a big Rambo knife for them to have in hand while they walk you in and out. (MAKE SURE THE SHERRIF HAS THE DEPUTIES GO BY AND TELL ALL YOUR NEIGHBORS). Pay a stranger to locals to occasionally to go buy the property and discharge weapons (preferably fully auto). IT doesn't hurt to have a swing sitting out by a road that people travel on with some dummies on it. You can have the stranger you pay (or you when you visit) go sit in it and read pond boss while swinging with the stuffed people. Soon you will find most of your issues involving trespass will no longer be a problem.
NOTE: this post is in no way about making fun of people that may have PTSD as I have friends that do have it.

Another https://www.pinterest.com/pin/362469469980464449/

You got that right- I have more than one LEO tell me that the ones between 13 and 18 are the ones that will pull the glock out and put you in the casket. They have no moral compass and no fear . They feel invincible.

Sure gully washer..lol

BTW....I am starting to think most of those guys were innocent bystanders.

At first I was "all them guys are trash", but now I think there is a lot more to the story.

I wish you could bring the 65 year old Purple Heart recipient that the Waco cops killed..Jesus Delgado Rodriguez of New Braunfels, Texas, who had no criminal record, and was not even a member of a motorcycle club.

Maybe one day we'll get the truth of what really happened..We need to know more.

What works well for me is a sign of a bull that says "I can make it to the fence in 3.2 sec! Can you?" And I have a black steer roaming the property. That seems to scare more people than gun signs. I also let a caretaker live on the property for free. If you can find someone trustworthy, that works the best. We started a bunch of rumors about him killing trespassers and people believe it. We say "He carries a no trespassing sign around with him so when he shoots someone he can put the sign on the fence for the law!"

I could not possibly agree more! I'm sick of hearing about the children, think of the children... I have become so de sensitized by liberal's who use this argument to strip the people of their rights, especially gun rights, that the word "children" just makes me turn away.

Ha, to relay a bit of personal experience in regards to this. I don't know how many times we have had a word with kids who are out and about, and eventually crossing onto our property. We go thru the usual story of private property, yada, yada...

Many times, later in the day, we get a call from the sheriff dept saying that so and so called, and the kids told them some outlandish story and the parents want us to be arrested. The dept knows its all a crock, but they go thru the formalities. We always say, good that they called, now you have their names and if they come again, there is no second warning.

Generally for me, if kids are halfway polite in encountering them, we just talk and they are reminded no more warnings. If they show disrespect, the sheriff escorts them back home. I feel you really aren't doing the kids any favors by ignoring poor behavior.

Kids are also responsible for a lot of "innocent" accidents. Like starting a little bonfire and it getting out of control and having a forest fire. Yes.... it has happened. Bad kids like to try to come off as innocent kids and get away their stuff. How many kids are responsible for bucket stocking a pond innocently. If they did ruin your stocking plan, costing you time and money, how do you feel then about controlling all trespassers?

I record all encounters now. I walk up on the trespasser(s) with my video camera already going so they know they are being recorded. I introduce myself and offer my hand in a handshake and I ask them their name. I usually have to follow up with asking for last name.

I ask them if they are lost? I know they are most likely NOT lost, but it's a formality.

I ask them if they are aware they are trespassing on private property (again usually oh I didn't know that response), and then I follow that with how did you come to this spot? I want them to say the route they took so that I can reply with how many no trespassing signs they passed on that route.

I ask them if they know that trespassing is a misdemeanor that may involve a fine and will appear on their juvenile record? I tell them I could call the local sheriff, but since they've been respectful and honest (I don't know if they have been, but this is a leading question) I won't call if they state they understand this is private property and that they will not trespass again (remember all of this is videotaped). I then ask them where do they live, and what are their parent's names? I tell them that our property is private because we do a lot of shooting and trapping and we know where our traps are and we know where we're shooting, but a trespasser is unlikely to know and we don't want anyone hurt.

I offer my hand again to shake and tell them I appreciate their understanding and respect and to enjoy the day or weekend.


From experience I can say every trespasser has offered up their names, parent's names, and address. At first they are quiet or "oh s**t", and the video camera gets them a little nervous, but I record for the very reason mentioned above - that kids may go back and tell their parents some b.s. story. In fact I drove to one address to see if the kids were being truthful, they were all outside and I spoke with the father. He said he didn't like his kids being videotaped, but I explained that Sheriff XXXXX told me to record all encounters so there is a true account of what happened. The father then understood why I recorded and said he could see that being important.

That's the same approach I take with kids, minus the video. I like that idea, just don't have that ready to go when needed. Very good idea tho... I like it when we walk back the route they are telling me they come and I tell them to stop and turn around. Right in their face is a sign!! One time this happened to a girl (18-ish) I caught lounging by the pond reading a Kindle. Nice little comfy spot I had made for her. When she turned around and saw the sign, I told her she must be just carrying that Kindle for a fashion accessory because otherwise she could have read the sign.

I have taken to making sure the phone is with me, which can take pictures. This also comes in handy when its motor bikes, etc. They know you aren't going to catch them, but a pic for the sheriff gives them something to go on, and proof when they are finally caught.

wow basslover that is some great stuff
with real logic behind each action to
deal with the lawbreakers whether they
are "kids" or adults.

I am glad that I am a quarter bubble off level. Things like this take me a lot less time, and I do not get repeat customers.

Since you quoted my post I'm assuming that the remark and question (which I marked in red letters) are directed at me.

My post concerns any absentee land owner who may be experiencing a trespasser on their property when they (the owner) are not at their property . I was merely suggesting that if the trespasser is a teenager it will most likely be a temporary, and not an ongoing problem.

I was in no way suggesting that one should neglect confronting a teenage trespasser should the circumstance arise. Perhaps I could have better worded my post so as to avoid any confusion, or maybe, I'm incorrectly interpreting your reply to my post. Either way, I apologize.

Now, in regards to the young lady lounging by your pond............ I just might have to let that type of trespasser slide.

And looking back at that, I also probably did not word that the most perfectly.

No problem........ Just thought that I would clarify.

yes Gully I suppose there is an exception to every rule
and I could look the other way for certain trespassers.
However I might have to take the trespasser to dinner
where the matter could be discussed in more detail.

I use the video camera on my cellular telephone to record the encounters. I have the trail cameras going off like crazy, but I want, for potential legal recourse, to have a record of what _I_ said, my tone and demeanor, especially when dealing with kids. As much as I want to record what they say, their vehicles (4 wheelers mostly), and their identities.

I have no need for an irritated parent to go off on me because their child lied to them about my approach, demeanor, and what I said. I can play back the tape and they can see for themselves.

But again, both my attorney and the sheriff said it is in my best interest to record all confrontations and interactions.

Sure wish i would find somethin like that tresspassing

You guys need to face reality....

Basslover, from the sound of things it would appear that trespassing is an ongoing and continuous problem for you, based on the level of preparation you describe. I'm curious as to what your particular situation is, related to such high numbers of trespassers. Can you elaborate as to why you think it is you suffer such numerous incursions?

Quite the opposite, sprkplug. Not much at all really due to the remoteness of our pond and the lack of houses anywhere near it. However, there are ATV trails maybe 15 minutes away and people wander. They used to wander right down dockside. Up went cables and signs. That eliminated the overwhelming majority. And the trail cameras were installed.

Some traces of trespassers, but very few. But very few is not zero, and that is our goal. For one this is our land and no one but us pays the taxes on it. And everything that people enjoy about our land, the campsites, the shooting range, the dock, and the fish well we've done all the work and paid all the bills for that as well. Not much for free riders.

I've also an eye on poaching. My bass have RW ratios of 110% up through 125%. It is likely that a trespasser has zero knowledge of the time and money involved in our pond, and they're likely to just drop a line in and try to catch that "big fish" - because water clarity is such that if there's a bass within sight or they're cruising you'd be like "wow that's a big fish". And if you didn't have a rod/reel with you, you'd likely bring one next time you hit the trails. So I am also protective of "my fish". We do catch and release, barbless hooks only. Again, unlikely an unknowing trespasser would follow our "rules".

I have learned that recording encounters is the safest solution - from traffic stops to fender benders to trespassers. A lot of people behave differently when they're on tape. But also there is now a recording of what happened so it cannot be in question. When I hear the ATVs I stop whatever I'm doing, holster the sidearm, turn on the video recorder on the tele, and go to greet the trespassers.

Makes me thankful for my 5 surrounding neighbors who feel as I do. It's not a worrisome issue here, and I have no need of a gun or camera when I'm out and about. I understand and appreciate that some may feel differently however.

You must be a knife guy:)

I'll never tell.

I don't know, Zep. She has an odd rod handling technique. Maybe, over dinner, you could explore the problem and get her on the right track.

Sunil I'd like the opportunity to try...
part of the problem might be she is using
one of them yankee reels.

The girlie girl needs an Abu Garcia 5000C!

Regarding the costs of trespassers.

A client of mine had a trespass problem. The trail cam locked in a bear proof box, 3/8" Python cabled to a tree lasted less than 2 weeks before it disappeared.

A 1 ac pond that was stocked with forage fish, RES and YP and was at the cusp of getting SMB stocked was bucket stocked with LMB. The pond was partially drained and rotenoned and it cost him 3 years (between stocking the forage, and getting the pond to the point to stock the SMB).

This pond is 1/2 mile off of the road, and it's not visible to anybody. Closest house is roughly 1/2 mile away.

FWIW, the LMB were 12"-13". Fish like that just don't magically appear one day. No water could enter the pond runoff wise (groundwater pond), and fish can't swim through dry woods.

Ouch. While it is an added financial cost - 2 options:
- wireless trail cam so footage is uploaded in near real time
and/or
- secondary cams that point at the original more obvious cams

I have a trespasser who also may be a poacher. I don't live on my property but have a mobile home, construction office trailer full of tools and junk, tractor shades over tractors, a 20 ft steel shipping container, etc. So far, to the best of my knowledge, he only comes during deer season. Last year, my Grandson and a buddy were walking to their hunting areas when they saw a flashlight shining on the fence line of property. A couple of weeks later, they got to the property right after dark and saw another light about 100 yards from the house. It was going away. On the last weekend of hunting season, they got to the house and found a bunch of beer cans, Bud Light, by a picnic table, at the house. There were 14 cans. They figured I had been there during the week. No way I could drink anywhere near 14 cans of beer and I have never drank lite beer. I have now installed game cams around the house area. Sooner or later, they might get stolen. But, even though this guy is hanging around the house, I don't find that anything has been messed with. That might not continue.

The direction he walks in from is across another piece of land with no structures and an owner who lives about 100 miles away and doesn't hunt.

I know all of the neighbors in the area and I'm the only hunter. Hence, the only guy with food plots, corn and protein feeders.

Next hunting season I'm going to install a camera that transmits a pic to my PC. I expect that I'll do it before then. The cams I've installed are a couple of Browning Dark Ops that have no flash. However, the night time picture quality is extremely poor. I did a walk test and, at 15 ft., didn't recognize myself.

Drue
You are in a tough spot a lot of us have faced. Me without the property damage. You can go the crazy man route and it will work but you have to be prepared for things to go south and at the end loosing some bass is not life and death.
I would also have a hard time selling out without telling the buyer what he was getting into.
Hunting and fishing is big business. I have a friend that leases my land for $10,000 a year and in the contract if he catches anyone hunting or fishing on his lease I have to give the money back.
Strange thing is I have leased his land for $10,000 a year as it is nice to hunt on some new land. So If I catch a trespasser he just cost me 10 grand and will be taken to court.

I don't have much trouble , 30:06 shot into pond from 200 yards
rabbit hunter hiding in trees wife shot in the air. He ran like he was shot at.
I am older and calmer now. I am lucky last trespasser I cought on camera I called the neighbor knowing it was one of his hands. He is the type that will fire the guy next time.
I wish I could let people hunt and fish like I did as a kid. Just have had bad luck doing it and try and keep it for family.

I would be tempted to sell if I could. I don't have to deal with crackheads like that.
Good luck.

Stray dogs can also be difficult to negotiate with, but my German shepherd has a way with words.

Yes -I have years of retired defunct cameras and thats what I use them for. Decoys.
If I'm trying to catch a trespasser I put one where its not to obvious and the real one high and hidden. They usually don't look up..

Scott, what is the situation on neighbors? How many are there, how long established are they? If the BOW isn't visible from the road, then someone knows it exists from prior knowledge. Pretty determined to carry fish in a bucket for half a mile, are there trails through these woods that pass close to a neighbor's place?

Just a note: A lot of folks think they are helping by adding fish. Perhaps there are signs that can be purchased that say "Do not add fish - Managed fishery", or something like that. Do folks sell signs like that? Is this a business opportunity for someone? Before joining this forum, I thought adding some bass to my pond would have been no issue. I did not think about how adding one species could restrict my options in the future. I do not trespass, so stocking someone else's pond without permission was not really something I ever considered.

P.S. found this

http://www.123rf.com/photo_17603350_sign-prohibited-release-fish-in-pubilc-park.html

I made my own, printed them, and put them in plastic sleeves.

Homemade No Stocking Sign

Custom Sign

Just wondering if a sign was available like that without requiring a custom manufacture whether it would get enough buyers to be worth the effort for someone that sells pond stuff? Probably not I guess...

RAH....the custom sign is under $15
I think you have a good idea for people
that have issues with people adding fish

What's the target audience for such a sign? Friends,neighbors, and folks with permission to fish have undoubtedly been told of your management plans, and already know not to add fish.

Trespassers have probably already ignored signs telling them they are somewhere they do not belong, so what good will additional signage asking that they not add fish, do?

spark i think it is just a another piece of a puzzle
and goes back to what someone said
many if not most think they are helping
the owner by adding fish....like I don't really
care if someone adds a few fish to my stew.
but i know many owners are lots more particular
with their plan than I am

That's why we came to the shop and backed the trucks in first, and NOT visit the ponds first!

It was good seeing you again Tony. Notice how I didn't shoot the snake?

But, seeing the shotgun wad that washed up on the concrete swimming area means that the shooting there is keeping the trespassers away.......

I think you're right, Zep. It just struck me as funny, the notion that a trespasser would ignore one sign, yet abide by another!

You mean you could've shot that snake? Of course you could've, what am I thinking?

Just for future reference, next time you see a watersnake around my ponds, feel free!

The bluegills showed a greater interest in the superfeed last night..

2 houses near the road, one house has an 8 year old, the other house has an older couple that are like hermits. No other houses within roughly 1/2 mile. Pond is about 1/3 mile off the road in the center of the woods. Pond is only a few years old - historically there was no pond there before.

There are other ponds on the property, and only 1 has LMB in it. None of the other ponds have had LMB show up were they shouldn't be. There's no way that these fish could have come in with the minnows or other fish - all of a sudden they were chasing FHM in the shallows. They don't grow from fingerlings to 12"+ long in a pond without being spotted at least once.

The thought is that it was a teenage relative of the 8 year old. The absentee owner is now making trips there more frequently to target practice, and I drive in when I'm nearby - no set schedule. I've been there as late as 11:00 p.m. and as early as sunrise.

I have written permission from the owner to press charges on trespassers (I'm his "agent"), and the DNR has a written letter from the owner saying that he will press charges if anyone is caught. The local Conservation Officer has it in his filing box that he keeps in the truck.

There are "No Trespassing" signs up around the perimeter of the property now, every 100'. Thin aluminum, placed on the trees at roughly 10' height (ladder against the tree to install). Plastic signs were chewed by squirrels and only lasted a year.

Knock on wood, no problems in the past 2 years.

That's good news! (the food)



Concealed carry means just that, concealed.

I might have been able to shoot it. I'm not as good with a handgun as a rifle or shotgun. But, at that distance, it would most likely been a done deal. I cheat with that 9mm, I have a crimson trace laser on it.

I don't want to think about where you had that thing concealed. I think I might need to shield my eyes whilst you retrieve it.

Good IWB holsters aren't cheap, but they work well.

Closing Argument

Just glad to say that we don't have anymore trouble with the neighbors.

It helped quite a bit when 2 guy's got some federal time (they have not been back) and their old man blew a Felony Conviction into an Officers Breathalyzer.

How sweet is that!!

Now to deal with the Chimpmunks

You know how you get rid of stray dogs?

Cook up a pound of bacon. Get one of those big yellow wash sponges and fill it with the bacon grease. A dog with gorge the sponge down with out ripping it apart. The throat of a dog will expand so he can choke it down but his a$$ will not. The dog will die.

That is just cruel!

Take them out humanely.

Don't forget about Google maps.... People have the ability to scan any area they want.

Wow, I am amazed and very grateful at how many responses I have received. Sorry for my lack of response. While I saw a number of your responses, I have been out of town with my job for a week and did not have good access to the internet. I look forward to ready all your comments and responding over the next few days.

Thanks again!!

Look up the elements for criminal trespass in your state. Start with the elements and determine what it will take to prosecute by satisfying all of these elements against an offender.

Make sure the property is properly posted. Document this with dated photographs.

Find out what the procedure is for you to swear out a criminal complaint against offenders, when a situation arises where you can meet all of the elements against an offender. This way you won't have to rely on law enforcement if they are not available.

Finally, if there are individuals that you already know and can identify as being a problem, send them registered mail now with a letter stating that they are not allowed on the property. Given an adequate description of the property in question and keep a copy for your records, along with the delivery receipt. This will help with any question of notice.

Also, consider a civil suit for trespass in order to obtain compensation for interference with the quiet enjoyment of your property.

I was able to successfully prosecute based in part on trail cam photos. It takes a lot of leg work but is definitely worth the effort...successful proescutions are a huge deterrent.

I can't agree more. Go after the real troublesome ones, and they let everyone else know. My troubles dropped 95% after I followed all the way thru on one, and it has been several years now since and no more. Sure you might get what I call the casual trespasser, but their numbers will even drop after you nail the bad one.

catmandoo: "I was threatened. I was subjected to a lot of negative activities on my property. I cannot even begin to list the terror we went through. I put in a pretty expensive security system that could be monitored by the sheriff's department.

The sheriff told me I could defend myself. I was never outside without either my 12-gauge shotgun or a big softball bat, unless law enforcement was in our immediate area. The law enforcement individuals would ask me to place my weapons in their cars whenever they were present. They also would secure my gun locker inside our house -- with our permission.

My wife and I decided to buy another place. There was a major sting operation about the same time. Many of the druggies, murderers, and thugs were arrested, or they fled the area. A number of properties were confiscated and auctioned. My property was purchased by one of the new owners. We were out of there.

We basically broke even in the sale. We found a property that is about 4 miles away (as the crow flies) and about 8 miles by road. The property is about 25 acres, and had one pond. I've added a few more ponds.

But, the big thing is the peace-of-mind we now have."



Hi catmandoo, Wow, you guys went thru a lot. We've not had it that bad, but would never want to have things get that bad. We actually had someone hiding a 14ft jon boat on our property that they would use to go fishing in our pond. I found the boat and brought it to my house. Surprised they had to be when they tried to go fishing again and found their boat was gone. Sometimes my buddies and I will go unload mad amounts of ammo on my 30 acres, just to remind those who live close in the hills that I'm an NRA supporter that likes to spend a lot of money on a lot of various types of guns. I am not willing to get into fights with others, unless it's in order to protect myself or my family from danger. We do have a security system on our cabin that the cops are aware if we ever have the cabin broken into.

We were recently contacted by a person interested in buying the land/pond/cabin, even though we have not put the property up for sale. If the price is right, then we'll likely sell and look for another pond.

10 months ago we bought 1.7 acres of woods that is connected to the 1.7 acres our house sits on. We now have 3.4 acres where we live and I've had 5 different people tell me the wooded 1.7 acres we just bought has multiple underground springs on the property and we could easily put a 1 acre pond behind our house. This is sounding like something we're going to want to do. Sure, a 1 acre pond is nothing compared to the possibility of a almost 18 acre pond I could have at our cabin property, but maybe having a 1 acre pond where we live would not be so bad?

Just remember that in a pond with springs, that the water level is dependent upon the water pressure in the pond. i.e. a spring does not have a one way valve. In times of low rainfall, the pond will drop.

Personal experience here. My pond has "springs" in it. It will and has dropped 6 feet from full pool. So, my 1+ acre pond is around 1/2 acre when that happens, which lately has been 10 months of the year.........